I am still thankful every day that I did not and will never watch this...whatever it is. Anyway, always a real joy to listen to different views. Happy New Year, Dan and Co!
Started watching Dr. Who back with Pertwee in the 70's. I have a room in my house that contains my Dr. Who collection. Just pre-ordered Season 7 Collection bluray and The Savages (2 x steelbooks, 1 x bluray and 1 x DVD). Have not bothered to watch this years Xmas spesh. Have not purchased Disney Who season 1 to add to my collection. It's not Dr. Who to me. Such a shame that everything that used to make Dr. Who great has been expunged from the show.
5 million plus waited until this show was over, then turned on to watch the show that directly followed it, Wallace and Gromit.......tells you all one needs to know.
It tells me Who has become a show enjoyed more by its fans than the general populace. Though its ratings suggest it is just standard BBC1 Christmas Day fare (along with similarly rated Strictly, Call the Midwife, EastEnders et al) not the "Event TV" Wallace and Gromit and Gavin and Stacey (neither are shown EVERY year) were clearly touted. Tbf, Wallace and Gromit were making their first Christmas Day appearance in 16 years so it was always likely to be FAR more anticipated. Being the stars of the Christmas BBC One idents (from 30th November!!) and being front and centre on the cover of the Christmas Radio Times certainly didn't hurt!
All that really tells us is that there are more people who love and anticipate W&G ( who make one film every 10+ years) than they do Doctor Who. So nothing's changed! It was the same when the last film premiered! When DW was the biggest show on TV. W&G is more popular than practically anything in British entertainment.
@@type40doctorwho there were a couple of references to it, which RTD and Moffat cant seem to resist. Something about the Doctor having no boyfriends and a lesbian passenger on a train. Admittedly, it was toned down in this episode and not to the level of Rogue or The Devil's Chord.
Great show. Many thanks, Dan, Charlotte, Antony and Luke. Another rewrite might have removed Joy from the script entirely, allowing for an expansion of Anita's storyline, who really ought to have been wondering why all these extra guests keep on appearing in her hotel, particularly any reptilian ones. Maybe the explanation is that there simply wasn't time for another rewrite, Russell calling on Steven at short notice when he found he couldn't finish his own script before the deadline. Or it could be that both of them felt that it doesn't really matter what happens, just so long as a sequence of diverting moments are strung together with enough silliness and rushing around to give the illusion of a story, for a Christmas Day audience who aren't expected to be paying that much attention anyway, having the TV on in the background while they play with toys on the carpet, recover on the sofa from a larger than usual meal, or are in another room entirely doing the washing up, in the wait for the much anticipated new adventure for Wallace and Gromit. I think it was Jane Tranter on Russell's Imagine programme who described 1980s Doctor Who as "a pastiche of entertainment." This episode was at best a pastiche of modern Doctor Who, a good central idea underdeveloped and ill-considered, a reheating of past ingredients, that might only give the impression of a good episode to someone walking outside glimpsing isolated images through people's living room windows. This episode was like a sheet of shiny wrapping paper, having served its purpose, at the end of the day it was crumpled, empty and worthless, something to be screwed up, thrown away and never seen again. I wonder, did Disney get to keep the receipt to exchange it for a refund in the New Year?
A generally positive take on the episode. Definitely Ncuti's best performance so far. I enjoyed it for what it was - a light-hearted Christmas Day romp. It might have been better with more Anita and less Joy and definitely without the inevitable crying scene(s), though in the case of his emotional response to leaving Anita, it did seem at least vaguely "earned", given they had been together every day for a whole year. Thank you Dan, Charlotte, Antony and Luke for your engaging opinions. Welcome back Type 40 podcast for 2025!
Love the show Dan, and I appreciate your guys opinion of the ep. I did not like it, it had potential but the ending ruined the whole story. There is a lack of a main monster, and a really bad ending. I am also a Christian. I do not hate or belittle people for not being Christian, because that is a ridiculous thing to do. I would prefer if Doctor Who stays away from modern politics and modern religion. The main takeaway from this episode, is that people on the left and right, are talking about either "how woke it is" or "how they loved the shot at the Tories." Never should that be the main takeaway from an episode, especially a Christmas special. This special did not feel like last years, I was excited for Church on Ruby Road, but for Joy to the World, i was not looking forward to it at all. Hopefully Series 15 is better, and I am looking forward to your guys streams on it as well. Cheers! - Joe
I had high hopes for Joy to the World. I very much enjoyed the trailers, feeling that an intriguing, thought-provoking story was promised, and on this basis, probably allowed myself to be seized by a little confirmation bias. In fairness, for the first twenty minutes, my expectations were comprehensively fulfilled, with a great story unfolding, and likeable, dependable characters being cruelly sacrificed. Moreover, Gatwa better demonstrated the qualities that one should reasonably expect from the Doctor, namely being informative, heroic, and taking responsibility. For those first twenty minutes, I judged the lead's performance to be a vast improvement on any such that had been derived from Davies' writing. Then came the terminally inane decision to have the Doctor spend a year in domesticity. Moffat seems fascinated by this trope, most notably when it was explored in Matt Smith's first series. The difference was that Smith fashioned a profoundly otherworldly Doctor, to the extent that his performance was satisfyingly jarring when he was confronted with human behaviour; hence, when his character spent an elongated time in mundanity, it was interesting and stimulating. The current Doctor is the antithesis of this, an attenuated, soap opera version who has barely ever raised his head above the parapet of seeming human; his time on earth with Anita was nothing but a continuance of Gatwa's woefully inadequate understanding of the role. The decision to treat the Doctor like this coincided with the whole narrative falling apart; the plot imploded, the pace ground to a halt, with the pleasing momentum, and sense of jeopardy, being replaced by crassly shoehorned emotion in tandem to a succession of highly questionable messaging. I can give no credit to a production that so wilfully sabotages itself; score: a far-too-generous 0/5. It was absolutely ghastly, on Christmas Day, of all days! Thank God for Wallace and Gromit! Many thanks, Dan, Charlotte, Antony, and Luke, for all your invaluable insights. Happy New year and all the best for now. Paul
I saw half of it later on then switched it off it just wasn't Doctor Who for me, considering this is Moffat's last story it doesn't live up to his own legacy as a writer for the programme.
I know i'm 10 days late but happy new year guys. The positive thing i'll say about this episode is it started promising the time travel hotel was interesting Ncuti was getting there then he went back to an insufferable crying human and the down side of it as soon as we got to the scene where the Doctor stays at the hotel on earth for a year chatting with Anita who was also great but the episode started to get very slow and very boring very quickly. Nicola Coughlan a talented actress who was completely wasted after all this build up Joy was hardly in it i wouldn't even call her a companion and the scene where she turned into a star and was part of the birth of christ that scene went way over the top and a scene too far christian territory is something "Dr. Who" should be keeping well out of the covid message shouldn't had been put in there considering it's christmas it's suppose to be a time of joy people who lost families that day don't want to be reminded of it. This was the worst ever christmas special for me. Moffat should had retired with grace and just accepted his end in 2017 this is proving RTD and Moffat are no longer fit to write or be in charge of this show to save this show it needs fresh blood and new ideas and needs to go back to being a science fiction show rather than a soap opera fantasy. I think christmas specials should be dropped altogether in my opinion because i feel they are starting to get repetitive and too light hearted just because the episode is aired on christmas doesn't mean the episode has to be set on christmas a battle with the Daleks or the Sontarans fighting the rutans would make a great christmas special.
@@joshuajoshua2732 The Christmas Special used to be a real "thing" that often grabbed the highest ratings for the franchise. These days it's more of a placeholder - a reminder Who is still a going concern. They tend to be enjoyable by chance rather than by design. Who seriously needs a fresh direction. RTD isn't the person to take it forward. Give it to someone who isn't part of The Fitzroy Tavern fan clique. Better still, like in its greatest days, give it to a young, talented producer, who isn't necessarily a huge fan. Essentially we need a 2025 version of Philip Hinchliffe.
I am still thankful every day that I did not and will never watch this...whatever it is. Anyway, always a real joy to listen to different views. Happy New Year, Dan and Co!
and the same back my good friend!
@@type40doctorwho great to hear from you. Always good to have a natter.
Started watching Dr. Who back with Pertwee in the 70's. I have a room in my house that contains my Dr. Who collection. Just pre-ordered Season 7 Collection bluray and The Savages (2 x steelbooks, 1 x bluray and 1 x DVD). Have not bothered to watch this years Xmas spesh. Have not purchased Disney Who season 1 to add to my collection. It's not Dr. Who to me. Such a shame that everything that used to make Dr. Who great has been expunged from the show.
Well, I hope our review has filled in some gaps and maybe entertained for a little while.
5 million plus waited until this show was over, then turned on to watch the show that directly followed it, Wallace and Gromit.......tells you all one needs to know.
Well Wallace and Gromit are British pop culture icons. Doctor Who is not very British these days.
It tells me Who has become a show enjoyed more by its fans than the general populace. Though its ratings suggest it is just standard BBC1 Christmas Day fare (along with similarly rated Strictly, Call the Midwife, EastEnders et al) not the "Event TV" Wallace and Gromit and Gavin and Stacey (neither are shown EVERY year) were clearly touted.
Tbf, Wallace and Gromit were making their first Christmas Day appearance in 16 years so it was always likely to be FAR more anticipated.
Being the stars of the Christmas BBC One idents (from 30th November!!) and being front and centre on the cover of the Christmas Radio Times certainly didn't hurt!
All that really tells us is that there are more people who love and anticipate W&G ( who make one film every 10+ years) than they do Doctor Who. So nothing's changed! It was the same when the last film premiered! When DW was the biggest show on TV.
W&G is more popular than practically anything in British entertainment.
My expectations were low, and I have to say they were easily met.
A real pity to be served something this undercooked at Christmas, isn't it?
At this point the BBC and Bad Wolf are whipping a dead horse. Doctor Who is finished unless it ditches the whole queer thing.
there wasn't really any of that content in this episode. though I do accept your general point.
@@type40doctorwho there were a couple of references to it, which RTD and Moffat cant seem to resist. Something about the Doctor having no boyfriends and a lesbian passenger on a train. Admittedly, it was toned down in this episode and not to the level of Rogue or The Devil's Chord.
Very enjoyable Christmas special - we all loved it here! The side plot with Anita was very nicely done!
Blimey, you're keen! We've not dropped the review yet haha. Thank you and happy 2025.
Thoroughly enjoyed this chat.
cheers Will!
Great show. Many thanks, Dan, Charlotte, Antony and Luke.
Another rewrite might have removed Joy from the script entirely, allowing for an expansion of Anita's storyline, who really ought to have been wondering why all these extra guests keep on appearing in her hotel, particularly any reptilian ones. Maybe the explanation is that there simply wasn't time for another rewrite, Russell calling on Steven at short notice when he found he couldn't finish his own script before the deadline.
Or it could be that both of them felt that it doesn't really matter what happens, just so long as a sequence of diverting moments are strung together with enough silliness and rushing around to give the illusion of a story, for a Christmas Day audience who aren't expected to be paying that much attention anyway, having the TV on in the background while they play with toys on the carpet, recover on the sofa from a larger than usual meal, or are in another room entirely doing the washing up, in the wait for the much anticipated new adventure for Wallace and Gromit.
I think it was Jane Tranter on Russell's Imagine programme who described 1980s Doctor Who as "a pastiche of entertainment." This episode was at best a pastiche of modern Doctor Who, a good central idea underdeveloped and ill-considered, a reheating of past ingredients, that might only give the impression of a good episode to someone walking outside glimpsing isolated images through people's living room windows.
This episode was like a sheet of shiny wrapping paper, having served its purpose, at the end of the day it was crumpled, empty and worthless, something to be screwed up, thrown away and never seen again. I wonder, did Disney get to keep the receipt to exchange it for a refund in the New Year?
A generally positive take on the episode. Definitely Ncuti's best performance so far. I enjoyed it for what it was - a light-hearted Christmas Day romp.
It might have been better with more Anita and less Joy and definitely without the inevitable crying scene(s), though in the case of his emotional response to leaving Anita, it did seem at least vaguely "earned", given they had been together every day for a whole year.
Thank you Dan, Charlotte, Antony and Luke for your engaging opinions. Welcome back Type 40 podcast for 2025!
BTW...my guess is that War Between will be the Xmas Special next time.
Who knows! Maybe - maybe not.
"Derry Girls" is worth checking out Dan it's a really great series.
I can't say that Nicola's part in this has spurned me on to seek it out.
Love the show Dan, and I appreciate your guys opinion of the ep. I did not like it, it had potential but the ending ruined the whole story. There is a lack of a main monster, and a really bad ending. I am also a Christian. I do not hate or belittle people for not being Christian, because that is a ridiculous thing to do. I would prefer if Doctor Who stays away from modern politics and modern religion. The main takeaway from this episode, is that people on the left and right, are talking about either "how woke it is" or "how they loved the shot at the Tories." Never should that be the main takeaway from an episode, especially a Christmas special. This special did not feel like last years, I was excited for Church on Ruby Road, but for Joy to the World, i was not looking forward to it at all. Hopefully Series 15 is better, and I am looking forward to your guys streams on it as well. Cheers! - Joe
Like you, I see no good that can ultimately come from this series being Political or venturing anywhere near religion.
I had high hopes for Joy to the World. I very much enjoyed the trailers, feeling that an intriguing, thought-provoking story was promised, and on this basis, probably allowed myself to be seized by a little confirmation bias.
In fairness, for the first twenty minutes, my expectations were comprehensively fulfilled, with a great story unfolding, and likeable, dependable characters being cruelly sacrificed. Moreover, Gatwa better demonstrated the qualities that one should reasonably expect from the Doctor, namely being informative, heroic, and taking responsibility. For those first twenty minutes, I judged the lead's performance to be a vast improvement on any such that had been derived from Davies' writing.
Then came the terminally inane decision to have the Doctor spend a year in domesticity. Moffat seems fascinated by this trope, most notably when it was explored in Matt Smith's first series. The difference was that Smith fashioned a profoundly otherworldly Doctor, to the extent that his performance was satisfyingly jarring when he was confronted with human behaviour; hence, when his character spent an elongated time in mundanity, it was interesting and stimulating.
The current Doctor is the antithesis of this, an attenuated, soap opera version who has barely ever raised his head above the parapet of seeming human; his time on earth with Anita was nothing but a continuance of Gatwa's woefully inadequate understanding of the role.
The decision to treat the Doctor like this coincided with the whole narrative falling apart; the plot imploded, the pace ground to a halt, with the pleasing momentum, and sense of jeopardy, being replaced by crassly shoehorned emotion in tandem to a succession of highly questionable messaging.
I can give no credit to a production that so wilfully sabotages itself; score: a far-too-generous 0/5. It was absolutely ghastly, on Christmas Day, of all days! Thank God for Wallace and Gromit!
Many thanks, Dan, Charlotte, Antony, and Luke, for all your invaluable insights. Happy New year and all the best for now.
Paul
I saw half of it later on then switched it off it just wasn't Doctor Who for me, considering this is Moffat's last story it doesn't live up to his own legacy as a writer for the programme.
his last story? I'll believe that when I see it...
Dan
I know i'm 10 days late but happy new year guys.
The positive thing i'll say about this episode is it started promising the time travel hotel was interesting Ncuti was getting there then he went back to an insufferable crying human and the down side of it as soon as we got to the scene where the Doctor stays at the hotel on earth for a year chatting with Anita who was also great but the episode started to get very slow and very boring very quickly.
Nicola Coughlan a talented actress who was completely wasted after all this build up Joy was hardly in it i wouldn't even call her a companion and the scene where she turned into a star and was part of the birth of christ that scene went way over the top and a scene too far christian territory is something "Dr. Who" should be keeping well out of the covid message shouldn't had been put in there considering it's christmas it's suppose to be a time of joy people who lost families that day don't want to be reminded of it.
This was the worst ever christmas special for me. Moffat should had retired with grace and just accepted his end in 2017 this is proving RTD and Moffat are no longer fit to write or be in charge of this show to save this show it needs fresh blood and new ideas and needs to go back to being a science fiction show rather than a soap opera fantasy.
I think christmas specials should be dropped altogether in my opinion because i feel they are starting to get repetitive and too light hearted just because the episode is aired on christmas doesn't mean the episode has to be set on christmas a battle with the Daleks or the Sontarans fighting the rutans would make a great christmas special.
@@joshuajoshua2732 The Christmas Special used to be a real "thing" that often grabbed the highest ratings for the franchise.
These days it's more of a placeholder - a reminder Who is still a going concern. They tend to be enjoyable by chance rather than by design.
Who seriously needs a fresh direction. RTD isn't the person to take it forward. Give it to someone who isn't part of The Fitzroy Tavern fan clique. Better still, like in its greatest days, give it to a young, talented producer, who isn't necessarily a huge fan.
Essentially we need a 2025 version of Philip Hinchliffe.