Given the fact that it's 50 years of Tom and to honour the passing of Christopher Benjamin, I would request a Review (of Death) of "The Talons of Weng-Chiang".
Recently watched this one for the first time, absolutely insane that one of the most engaging and atmospheric stories of the classic series would also be the most racist piece of Who media ever brought to screen. It feels so much worse than what was in the 60s, it's wild.
My only gripe with it being the master it makes the universe smaller for the doctor the way they do in star wars where everyone know everyone let there be more than one nasty time lord keep the options open to bring people back as enemies.
RE: Season 6B the Big Finish story "The Black Hole" (AKA the first one with the Rufus Hound Monk) does actually provide an explanation for The Two Doctors happening during Season 5 from Pat's perspective, where he and Jamie go off to see Dastari, come back mentioning an adventure with Sontarans and find Victoria in trouble with The Monk. So if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it all, nothing's too broken.
I love the original war games. I loved the bickering between the war chief and secruity chief, along with his interesting portrayal of the character. It was the music that killed the colour version for me and the publicity shots of the new who doctors. Just as you guys said looked like a youtube edit. I can't fault the work gone into this buy the colour team and what they have done. Like matt it was only in the colour version I noticed things like in ep 10 pats trousers are ripped apart in the leg and then the hole is gone. Never noticed that in the black and white. Also now I've had time to think about it the master thing isn't that bad if it was done the way you guys suggested, but from what I believe from interviews and I could be wrong but it was phils idea to do it the way they did it.
Is Billy able to cobble together a slideshow for the next 60's story? For the full recon experience 😂 I haven't seen the colourisation yet and only watched the original once i think, but really enjoyed it. Some of filming locations are somewhat local to me.
I can't see them choosing this story anytime soon, but personally I'd love to see a colourisation of The Keys of Marinus. We get to see a bunch of different settings which would be nice to look at in colour, and as much as I genuinely love the story, it might end up better off trimmed down.
I thought the colourisation was excellent, totally natural and unlike with the garish palette of The Daleks I found I was not watching it being constantly aware that it was re-coloured. And yeah, I agree that the design of the base exterior could have been stylistically more in line with the 1960s aesthetic of the interiors.
Season 6B CAN still happen. We don’t know the spinning in space and sitting in chair in TARDIS follow immediately on from each other. There could be any amount of time in between, time in which he could have been doing his missions for the Timelords.
Great review. I enjoyed the colour version generally but there was too much music and too jarring/loud. I'd have preferred more time on the rebels element of the plot, or just 'breathing space', instead of the regeneration.
One bit I really liked that I think they cut out is when they go back to the house in WW1 and the Doctor moves the timezone barriers to be around the house, creating a base for the resistance to get to that the brainwashed soldiers couldn't reach. I thought that was a very doctor-y thing to do.
The cold open they edited into The War Games gave me chills! I feel this sort of project makes more sense for a story already as epic as The War Games. Trying to make an intentionally slow, claustrophobic and atmospheric story like The Daleks now become some 75 min 60s epic just feels jarring. Adored The War Games in colour! A real fun treat and now I’m actually excited for the next one.
My personal fan edit of the "Doctor chooses his face" scene would have been: Too Old: Peter Capaldi Too Fat: Colin Baker (sorry Col, love ya) Too Thin: David Tennant Too Young: Matt Smith Won't Do At All: A lot of people jokingly put Jodie here, but I think it would be way funnier and more in-character to have Tom Baker - the most popular Doctor - in this bit
1:00:39 I'd love to see your edit of that scene. The War Chief debate is so silly to me. In the 80s there were fans who thought the Monk was also the Master.
Thank you for another review of *Death*. First, why isn't Billy on video view? The colours for a 1960s Who episode really popped. The colours are fantastic. The pre-credits scene was really good and got viewers hooked! I noticed when the Doctor said "Zoe and Jamie"-I believe it was in The Seeds of Death. Now, onto the bugbears. Some scenes worked well, and others did not. For example, I did not like the dome where the War Lords are based; that CGI scene looked a bit unreal. The big problem is that there are too many cuts and a lack of detail, making it hard to follow. As Matt said, characters just appeared and disappeared. It is very fast-paced and felt like a marathon. Yes, there was a lot of music in this episode. This colour version, like The Daleks, feels like a 'fan-coloured show' rather than a story. I know it's meant to be 1.5 hours long, but there was barely any dialogue. The best part was the last part with the clever snaps taken from Season 7 of Pertwee. I love the War Games (B&W). I prefer the Daleks colour if I had to choose. Thanks! :)
1:06:33 On the regeneration sequence being assumed as just colourised by non-fans; wasn’t the case for my non fan family watching. My sister wondered (wrongly) if they’d used AI. So not sure it was as convincing as you might think. Strong agree on the music. I think it was overwhelming.
Enjoyed the colourisation and some good moments. Not watched the original in a while but it does seem to be a bit too fast paced, no breathing room and maybe loses some scale and the size of the threat. I'm not a fan of the master angle. I always feel like the doctor recognises the war cheif but as someone he may have knew rather than the former close friendship he had with the master and as others have said it makes the universe seem far smaller. I don't know why people always have to try to link things up. I enjoyed the regeneration, especially because they also had the orginal part and then the regeneration so season 6B could still happen in-between. I also liked the reference to the unit dating issue
Nah, season 6B is still a thing. It takes place in between the Doctor's trial and his exile. Matt Smith had a "reset" before sneezing into Capaldi, the Second Doctor could have had something similar happen to him before he gets exiled (And since I'm a fan of Fugitive being a 6B Doctor, Troughton does get forcibly regenerated into Fugitive, Division steals her away from the CIA, she manages to escape the Divison, has her adventures, gets recaptured by the Time Lords, gets degenerated back into Troughton along with a mind wipe, and THEN 6B takes place)
Music killed it for me.Colourisation looked great,edit was fine,new clips were fine,but having out of place music playing the whole run time (which drowned out the dialogue) made it so hard to watch.Overall better than the daleks,but I wish theyd either turn the music down or have 60% less of it.
Personally, I never really liked the Season 6B theory because I think it kind of ruins the emotional impact of the War Games ending. I also thought it was a shame we never really got to see Jon wearing the Second Doctor’s outfit in Spearhead (besides the brief side profile shot of him coming out of the TARDIS), so actually seeing what he might’ve looked like in it in this edit was quite fun to see.
I'm curious, how do you account for the 2nd doctor being aware of Jamie and Zoe's fate in the Five Doctors? Or The Doctor and Jamie doing a mission for the timelords in the Two Doctors?
I should say that 6B is no longer needed now that we can just presume that it's the bi-generated version of Pat who's appearing in Three, Five, and Two Doctors.
I really do think you can have that 6b gap between pat in the void and the new regeneration. If you want to make it a he de-aged before regenerating to make sense of the 2 doctors, fuck it.
Two stories from Hartnell I think would suit colourising are Edge Of Destruction & The Rescue, but Troughton only really has Enemy for me if Tomb isn't the one to be colourised. However I'd only want them if they're not going to be mucked about with - just a straight colourising, cutdown if necessary, but all this canon editing & loud unfitting music is just wrecking any kind of good will the colourising gives for me. I'd just like another edition, not revisioned.
Saw it when it went out on BBC Four and I enjoyed it. Of course the original 10 parter is still the best even if it’s abit too long. I don’t like the alluding to the War Chief being The Master. I don’t believe that, just let the War Chief be the War Chief. The Regeneration was pretty good but I thought i recognised it because it was taken from a fan video. But overall War Games in Colour I liked it.
When it comes to the War Chief being the master, I was personally against it because it makes the world of Doctor Who smaller. Why can't the Doctor have more than one Time Lord friend who went off and did his own thing? Edit: There is the Rani so there's already a precident!
Well, you see, every time Doctor Who contradicts itself, a time traveller did it. How do two different version of "Shada" happen, AND "The Five Doctors"? A time traveller did it. How does Season 6b AND the colourised "War Games" regeneration happen? I time traveller did it.
The whole thing feels like a trailer and the regeneration, while great as a fan-made youtube clip, does not fit in with the episode. Awful, awful decision to include it in an official broadcast. Pat's face begins to contort and he falls through space. Cut to Pat having a snooze, upright in a chair inside the TARDIS. WTF!? It's jarring and completely destroys any immersion. The Regeneration in the Season 7 bluray trailer is infinitely better.
It starts out well, but ends up an incomprehensible mess. It basically becomes a clip montage. Cutting a 4 hour story to 90 minutes was a fool’s errand. Even halving the duration would have been a struggle. The Resistance subplot is gone, but the characters are all there at the end with no explanation. The War Lord base model is bad, and the CGI Gallifrey looks totally incongruous. Has Ben Cook said that he was inferring that the War Chief is the Master? Or did they just want ‘villainous time lord music’? It doesn’t make sense that he’s the Master because the interaction with the Doctor is all wrong.
Total disaster and unnecessary changes and a new regeneration scene we did not need the spinning Doctor is the regeneration and hacks off half the story and disrespectful to claim a character something his not the original in glorious black and white will always be superior I wish RTD and Collinson would stop meddling with the classics and meddle with their own version of the show.
Most people are against the War Chief being the Master because HE ISN'T. The character didn't exist until season 8. The end. Just another effort from the disgusting current series killers, sorry runners, to try and retcon old DrWho because they can and it'll piss old fans off. It's just that. Hence the abomination of the trial scene. Which is abhorrent.
That picture of Billy looks like he's been announced as the new presenter for Countryfile.
Billy's ventriloquism skills are insane
How do we know it's not Matthew throwing his voice? If so, his impersonation of Billy is spot-on.
Given the fact that it's 50 years of Tom and to honour the passing of Christopher Benjamin, I would request a Review (of Death) of "The Talons of Weng-Chiang".
Recently watched this one for the first time, absolutely insane that one of the most engaging and atmospheric stories of the classic series would also be the most racist piece of Who media ever brought to screen. It feels so much worse than what was in the 60s, it's wild.
@@chrischibird yep i tried watching it a few days ago and... wow, it's tough.
Not if you ask the Snowflake Sisters here. 🙄
Nice 60s ROD, complete with telesnap Billy!
The missing footage of Billy will turn up some day, probably somewhere in Africa or Australia.
@ftumschk or New Zealand!
Met Jimmy vee at Comic-Con in 2023, I asked him about attack of the grask and his face lit up
My only gripe with it being the master it makes the universe smaller for the doctor the way they do in star wars where everyone know everyone let there be more than one nasty time lord keep the options open to bring people back as enemies.
Exactly. I feel the same about Cpt Jack/Face of Boe
( 3:25 ) I’m surprised the figures were higher than The Church on Ruby Road as that story is enough to make people not come back! 🤔
RE: Season 6B the Big Finish story "The Black Hole" (AKA the first one with the Rufus Hound Monk) does actually provide an explanation for The Two Doctors happening during Season 5 from Pat's perspective, where he and Jamie go off to see Dastari, come back mentioning an adventure with Sontarans and find Victoria in trouble with The Monk. So if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it all, nothing's too broken.
I love the original war games. I loved the bickering between the war chief and secruity chief, along with his interesting portrayal of the character.
It was the music that killed the colour version for me and the publicity shots of the new who doctors. Just as you guys said looked like a youtube edit.
I can't fault the work gone into this buy the colour team and what they have done. Like matt it was only in the colour version I noticed things like in ep 10 pats trousers are ripped apart in the leg and then the hole is gone. Never noticed that in the black and white.
Also now I've had time to think about it the master thing isn't that bad if it was done the way you guys suggested, but from what I believe from interviews and I could be wrong but it was phils idea to do it the way they did it.
Watch the original Confessional Dial video if you want the 6b content in the regeneration!!
Is Billy able to cobble together a slideshow for the next 60's story? For the full recon experience 😂
I haven't seen the colourisation yet and only watched the original once i think, but really enjoyed it. Some of filming locations are somewhat local to me.
I can't see them choosing this story anytime soon, but personally I'd love to see a colourisation of The Keys of Marinus. We get to see a bunch of different settings which would be nice to look at in colour, and as much as I genuinely love the story, it might end up better off trimmed down.
I thought the colourisation was excellent, totally natural and unlike with the garish palette of The Daleks I found I was not watching it being constantly aware that it was re-coloured. And yeah, I agree that the design of the base exterior could have been stylistically more in line with the 1960s aesthetic of the interiors.
Phil Collinson was responsible for the War Chief/Master decision and use of the nuwho Master theme decision.
No wonder Chris Eccleston has such a low opinion of him ;)
@@ftumschkbeen on a pub crawl with Phil, he's a nice guy 😅
Season 6B CAN still happen. We don’t know the spinning in space and sitting in chair in TARDIS follow immediately on from each other. There could be any amount of time in between, time in which he could have been doing his missions for the Timelords.
Yeah was thinking the same think. Iike how they kept this part so there's still a possible gap
Great review. I enjoyed the colour version generally but there was too much music and too jarring/loud. I'd have preferred more time on the rebels element of the plot, or just 'breathing space', instead of the regeneration.
Candidates for colouring
The war machines
And
The seeds of death
Great listen guys..❤
One bit I really liked that I think they cut out is when they go back to the house in WW1 and the Doctor moves the timezone barriers to be around the house, creating a base for the resistance to get to that the brainwashed soldiers couldn't reach. I thought that was a very doctor-y thing to do.
The cold open they edited into The War Games gave me chills!
I feel this sort of project makes more sense for a story already as epic as The War Games.
Trying to make an intentionally slow, claustrophobic and atmospheric story like The Daleks now become some 75 min 60s epic just feels jarring.
Adored The War Games in colour! A real fun treat and now I’m actually excited for the next one.
My personal fan edit of the "Doctor chooses his face" scene would have been:
Too Old: Peter Capaldi
Too Fat: Colin Baker (sorry Col, love ya)
Too Thin: David Tennant
Too Young: Matt Smith
Won't Do At All: A lot of people jokingly put Jodie here, but I think it would be way funnier and more in-character to have Tom Baker - the most popular Doctor - in this bit
I worked on this colourisation. Thanks for the review 😊
1:00:39 I'd love to see your edit of that scene.
The War Chief debate is so silly to me. In the 80s there were fans who thought the Monk was also the Master.
Thank you for another review of *Death*. First, why isn't Billy on video view? The colours for a 1960s Who episode really popped. The colours are fantastic. The pre-credits scene was really good and got viewers hooked! I noticed when the Doctor said "Zoe and Jamie"-I believe it was in The Seeds of Death. Now, onto the bugbears. Some scenes worked well, and others did not. For example, I did not like the dome where the War Lords are based; that CGI scene looked a bit unreal. The big problem is that there are too many cuts and a lack of detail, making it hard to follow. As Matt said, characters just appeared and disappeared. It is very fast-paced and felt like a marathon. Yes, there was a lot of music in this episode. This colour version, like The Daleks, feels like a 'fan-coloured show' rather than a story. I know it's meant to be 1.5 hours long, but there was barely any dialogue. The best part was the last part with the clever snaps taken from Season 7 of Pertwee. I love the War Games (B&W). I prefer the Daleks colour if I had to choose. Thanks! :)
RIP Christopher Benjamin.😢
1:06:33 On the regeneration sequence being assumed as just colourised by non-fans; wasn’t the case for my non fan family watching. My sister wondered (wrongly) if they’d used AI. So not sure it was as convincing as you might think.
Strong agree on the music. I think it was overwhelming.
Loved the colourisation but the murray gold music really takes me out of it.
Is it time for "The Rods" again already? That went quickly! Dig that tux out, Johnny!
I love that moment towards the end when the time Lords come even the warlord is a little afraid of them
Matthew are you looking forward to the return of Loeb/Lee for HUSH 2?
Enjoyed the colourisation and some good moments. Not watched the original in a while but it does seem to be a bit too fast paced, no breathing room and maybe loses some scale and the size of the threat.
I'm not a fan of the master angle. I always feel like the doctor recognises the war cheif but as someone he may have knew rather than the former close friendship he had with the master and as others have said it makes the universe seem far smaller. I don't know why people always have to try to link things up.
I enjoyed the regeneration, especially because they also had the orginal part and then the regeneration so season 6B could still happen in-between. I also liked the reference to the unit dating issue
Nah, season 6B is still a thing. It takes place in between the Doctor's trial and his exile. Matt Smith had a "reset" before sneezing into Capaldi, the Second Doctor could have had something similar happen to him before he gets exiled
(And since I'm a fan of Fugitive being a 6B Doctor, Troughton does get forcibly regenerated into Fugitive, Division steals her away from the CIA, she manages to escape the Divison, has her adventures, gets recaptured by the Time Lords, gets degenerated back into Troughton along with a mind wipe, and THEN 6B takes place)
Music killed it for me.Colourisation looked great,edit was fine,new clips were fine,but having out of place music playing the whole run time (which drowned out the dialogue) made it so hard to watch.Overall better than the daleks,but I wish theyd either turn the music down or have 60% less of it.
Personally, I never really liked the Season 6B theory because I think it kind of ruins the emotional impact of the War Games ending. I also thought it was a shame we never really got to see Jon wearing the Second Doctor’s outfit in Spearhead (besides the brief side profile shot of him coming out of the TARDIS), so actually seeing what he might’ve looked like in it in this edit was quite fun to see.
I'm curious, how do you account for the 2nd doctor being aware of Jamie and Zoe's fate in the Five Doctors? Or The Doctor and Jamie doing a mission for the timelords in the Two Doctors?
I should say that 6B is no longer needed now that we can just presume that it's the bi-generated version of Pat who's appearing in Three, Five, and Two Doctors.
I really do think you can have that 6b gap between pat in the void and the new regeneration. If you want to make it a he de-aged before regenerating to make sense of the 2 doctors, fuck it.
Two stories from Hartnell I think would suit colourising are Edge Of Destruction & The Rescue, but Troughton only really has Enemy for me if Tomb isn't the one to be colourised. However I'd only want them if they're not going to be mucked about with - just a straight colourising, cutdown if necessary, but all this canon editing & loud unfitting music is just wrecking any kind of good will the colourising gives for me. I'd just like another edition, not revisioned.
If The Time Meddler got colourised would they canonise the Monk being The Master too? 😟
Great reviews guys agree on all comments and ....billy's laugh 🤣😆
Did anyone else find that the iplayer automatically went on to play The War Games episode 2? Why didn’t it go to episode 1?
Saw it when it went out on BBC Four and I enjoyed it. Of course the original 10 parter is still the best even if it’s abit too long. I don’t like the alluding to the War Chief being The Master. I don’t believe that, just let the War Chief be the War Chief. The Regeneration was pretty good but I thought i recognised it because it was taken from a fan video. But overall War Games in Colour I liked it.
I disavow this retcon, the Timeless Child, the return of Sutekh. None of this was a good idea. How's that for making my own choices?
When it comes to the War Chief being the master, I was personally against it because it makes the world of Doctor Who smaller. Why can't the Doctor have more than one Time Lord friend who went off and did his own thing?
Edit: There is the Rani so there's already a precident!
Well, you see, every time Doctor Who contradicts itself, a time traveller did it. How do two different version of "Shada" happen, AND "The Five Doctors"? A time traveller did it. How does Season 6b AND the colourised "War Games" regeneration happen? I time traveller did it.
The whole thing feels like a trailer and the regeneration, while great as a fan-made youtube clip, does not fit in with the episode. Awful, awful decision to include it in an official broadcast. Pat's face begins to contort and he falls through space. Cut to Pat having a snooze, upright in a chair inside the TARDIS. WTF!? It's jarring and completely destroys any immersion. The Regeneration in the Season 7 bluray trailer is infinitely better.
It starts out well, but ends up an incomprehensible mess. It basically becomes a clip montage. Cutting a 4 hour story to 90 minutes was a fool’s errand. Even halving the duration would have been a struggle. The Resistance subplot is gone, but the characters are all there at the end with no explanation. The War Lord base model is bad, and the CGI Gallifrey looks totally incongruous.
Has Ben Cook said that he was inferring that the War Chief is the Master? Or did they just want ‘villainous time lord music’? It doesn’t make sense that he’s the Master because the interaction with the Doctor is all wrong.
Total disaster and unnecessary changes and a new regeneration scene we did not need the spinning Doctor is the regeneration and hacks off half the story and disrespectful to claim a character something his not the original in glorious black and white will always be superior I wish RTD and Collinson would stop meddling with the classics and meddle with their own version of the show.
Too late
Most people are against the War Chief being the Master because HE ISN'T. The character didn't exist until season 8. The end. Just another effort from the disgusting current series killers, sorry runners, to try and retcon old DrWho because they can and it'll piss old fans off. It's just that. Hence the abomination of the trial scene. Which is abhorrent.