Why some Paradox Pokémon aren't evolved
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2024
- Three Paradox Pokémon are based on unevolved Pokémon: Scream Tail, Flutter Mane and Sandy Shocks. But why? Were they ever able to evolve? Let's explore the possibilities!
0:00 Intro
0:34 Evolution Stones Didn't Exist
1:42 The Spiky-Eared Pichu Problem
2:45 That's Not a Jigglypuff
4:14 This Is My Final Form
5:26 They Aren't Real
6:12 Anything to Make a Buck
6:55 Outro
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Intro: “Distortion (UmbreonLibris Version)”
Outro: “The Next Chapter”
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So Sandy Shock is supposed to be from pre-history but in legends Arceus, the only way to get Magnemite is from the Space-Time Distortion, or how in the Scarlet Book there’s the sketch of a potential “Legendary Beast fusion” but the sketch was made YEARS before the tower burned down, I think as the name “Paradox” implies, they’re intentionally not meant to make logical sense within the history of the Pokémon world, biologically or historically.
The use of “Paranormal Magazines” as the source of info draws a clear comparison between Paradox pokemon and Cryptids, more specifically“Neo-Dinosuars” who despite their name, have less in common with our scientific understanding of what dinosaurs were and more in common with pop culture ideas of what they were like, a prime example is the Ropen who’s appearance is based off of outdated pop-culture stereotypes of Pterosaurs
There _is_ a lone Magnezone on Mount Coronet, outside of any spacetime distortion! So there may be something else going on.
But that's an interesting point about cryptids. I was not aware of neodinosaurs. The only hitch with that idea is that the Paradox mon _are_ real (unless they aren't, of course!)
@@UmbreonLibris To be fair, Arceus happens in ~1868. Electric motors were developed well over 40 years before. The Magnezone could have been a Magneton that migrated from elsewhere - possibly Kanto or Johto - and Magnemite and Magneton are rather rare in Sinnoh even during DPPt, which take place in 2008.
The names themselves for the Paradox mons sound like "folklore", like Big Foot or Chupacabra (Suck Goat) or something like that
Magnezone are also found around Area Zero, but I am not sure if it means anything (unless the fact this place has high magnetism)
What if the space-time distortions sent a select amount of magnemite to the distant prehistoric past and they changed into Sandy Shocks over time
My personal theory is that these are technically the same thing as Ultrabeasts but from alternate worlds that more closely resemble the Pokémon world we know of. I like this theory because the future paradox are all robotic, probably coming from a dimension where every lifeform is while the past paradox mon don't line up with the fossil mon at all in a meta sense, fossil mon have huge inspiration from real life paleontology while past paradox are pop culture caveman creatures, resembling more things like the Flintstones than anything else so I think they do come from a wacky dimension that resembles such silly ideas of prehistory. Heck, some are full-on references to cavemen like Scream Tail and Sandy Shock and others to stereotypical fauna of such settings such as Slither Wing which resembles a fusion between cartoonish Dimetrodon and Stegosaurus as well as Volcarona. I think the simplest explanation is these forms of Jigglypuff, Misdreavus and Magneton simply don't evolve.
That's an interesting thought. I do think of them as akin to Ultra Beasts, and I guess I would prefer to find out that they do not in fact come from the future of our Pokémon world but from an alternate reality entirely.
That said, if they do come from the world we know, I don't think the Past Paradoxes come from that long ago. Occulture isn't a reputable magazine, so their claims (like that Scream Tail is from a billion years ago) can't be taken that seriously. To me, they look too similar to modern Pokémon to be more than a couple million years old.
@@UmbreonLibris Oh definetly, if the paradox mon are from the actual past, I doubt they are older than any of the fossil Pokémon. And probably coexisted with modern Pokémon in some fashion like Mamoswine or Tyranitar. And Occulture is a conspiracy theory magazine, the future paradox are mostly UFO stories in the end (some of which I kind of like more than the actual lore we know of paradox form, to be honest).
I just think the past paradox forms are strange in a meta sense since I would expect them to line up thematically relatively well with fossil mons, but they don't. The future mons being robots also seems strange to me, hence the interdimensional idea.
I’d like something to this effect, where the paradoxes aren’t from the reputed time period, but from somewhere else entirely. They just don’t make sense to me, as the past paradoxes, as mentioned above, don’t follow the same logic as fossil Pokémon, instead being stereotypical caveman dino mons, and the fact that they’re all sexless and incapable of breeding makes them difficult to accept as ancient counterparts of sexed and reproductively capable modern Pokémon. Additionally, the future paradox mon all being robotic implies a VERY specific future that hinges on technology overtaking biology.
Then again, I am bided as an evolutionary biologist. I’d have less of a problem if fossil Pokémon weren’t so firmly rooted in real evolution and paleontology. It’s the inconsistency that infuriates me.
More likely aligning more with the general definition of evolution rather than Pokémon’s name for metamorphosis. All the unevolved paradox are from the past because they haven’t had time to ‘evolve’. No such issue with future forms
If they're from other dimensions, then that really wouldn't explain why they appeared over 200 years ago when the Area Zero Expedition traveled into the crater. It also really wouldn't explain why the Occulture magazine explains each of the respective games' Paradox Pokemon in detail. My theory is that instead of having pre-evolutions or final evolutions, what you see is their only forms, and due to both changes to the environment and climate developed the necessity for a pre-evolution and/or final evolution.
Scream Tail being 1 billion years old goes against Genesect who was around for 300 million.
Sandy Shocks being part Ground and not Steel is fitting since the original Magneton wasn't it.
We do have wild Raichu in Area Zero so I'm hoping that we got a Gorochu as a Paradox mon.
Gorochu?
@@mixeddoubt Raichu evo. Not real, but ppl theorised a bunch of these kind of pkmn in the days of gen 1.
@@mixeddoubtIt was a planned Raichu evolution, never became real, though
The world doesn't really know about paradox Pokemon
The paradoxes in area zero are literal invasive species. The "normal" Pokémon there are the actual native animals living there.
I think I've got a pretty good Theory for the Evo Stone mons:
For the past paradox Pokémon, take Scream Tail for example, it could be possible that there was a separate way for Jigglypuff to evolve, such as eating a certain plant, or using an evolution stone that no longer exists. We know for a fact in Legends Arceus that there existed evolution items (i.e. Black Augurite, Peat Block) that no longer exist or are obtainable in current day, so I do not think it would be too far off to say that certain items existed back then that caused some Pokémon's evolution. But lets say that the evolution items that existed back then are still obtainable in the present, in that case lets take Flutter Mane, what if the Dusk Stones that existed back then were different from the ones that existed now? If the dusk stones' energy changed in the long amount of time from the past to the present, then attempting to use a modern Dusk Stone on Flutter Mane wouldn't work because it no longer has the same energy.
Speaking of that, I think it would be neat to see those ancient items obtainable again but as either something you have to scavenge for in the Underground in BDSP or being sold for a very high price (because of the rarity)
I never really thought about it like that, I just REALLY love the idea, cause it's so cool seeing not fully evolved mons become super strong!
i would love to see a past Eevee be just a normal type of its evolutions, imagine a direwolf that can learn every pokemon move types, i'd say it would be the jack of all trades eeveelution with some ability like ""survivalist; if it get's a status, gets damaged by traps or terrain, it shrugs off that status/damage and becomes that type during the battle, if it withdraws then returns the ability resets."
Thanks for asking! So I think it’s a bit like Wiglett and Diglett where they kinda look similar so to us as humans it looks like they are the same but then in the end they actually are different species.
Hmm, like convergent evolution. That's a great point!
I think you’re half right, but only in the part where the paradoxes are different species. I dont think they’re convergents like diglett and wiglett. Rather I think they’re the dinosaurs to our chickens (or vice versa for the future paradoxes), where chickens and dinosaurs are completely different animals, but the former descends from the latter. The paradoxes are distant ancestors/descendants of their modern counterparts whereas the convergents (wiglett and toedscool) have completely different ancestors from their counterparts all together.
@@MrMoom08 that's the most logical answer imo. They seem TOO simmillar to be convergent forms.
Brute Bonnet and Walking Wake are clearly convergent evolutions. Because mushrooms and dinosaurs couldn't be more different.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 the dinosaur look for Brute Bonnet is most likely a design choice to make it look more wild and beast-like without straying too far from Amoongus’s design. Walking Wake is a dinosaur because, well, it’s a dragon type from the distant past, of course it’s gonna be a dinosaur
To me Slither Wing seems way more similar to Larvesta than to Volcarona. Yes, it has the wings but it is stuck to the ground either way, it is physical rather than special too, and it still looks a lot like Larvesta and honestly only vaguely like Volcarona. Because of this I subscribe mostly to the theory that the paradox mon are not direct ancestors but representatives of a different branch in the evolution tree. Either that or they're made up.
But being made up is super lame, and would effectively mean that the ai is dead
I mean, isn’t this how evolution works? What if Slither Wing was a physical mon because that’s what benefited it in its environment, and then developed the fire typing and became a special mon because the environment changed to favor that instead? The same could be said about its wings, for all we know Slither Wing could just be in the process of developing flight, hence why it has wings that it can’t use very well as well as why it becomes smaller and lighter as Volcarona. As for why it looks like Larvesta, my guess would be that evolution (the pokemon kind) just wasn’t as common as it is today. Maybe there just wasn’t enough time back then for pokemon to mature in that way for whatever reason (or evolution developed over time and became more and more common because that’s more advantageous), and instead they grew up the same way animals do in the real world.
Yeah, it looks more like larvesta.
I thought that Walking Wake and Iron Leaves (versions of exclusives that are generally thought of to be unique) proves the fact that this machine just makes stuff up, but I guess it must have had some logic at some point if the three unevolved stone evolution references exist.
@@iantaakalla8180 there’s more than one suicune in the games (specifically certain battle facility trainers, which can have any of the three beasts in their party), so that pretty much disproves the burnt tower legend (unless the beasts aren’t reincarnations and were simply revived by Ho-oh instead), because it’s just that, a legend. If anything suicune and the other beasts are probably just really rare species, with walking wake being suicune’s ancestor. As for iron leaves, it’s a robot, it could easily be a reconstructed virizion from the future if not a mechanized one for preservation purposes. Also the imagination theory is more of a speculation than it is a theory, there isn’t a lot of evidence (if any) to support it, and the professors confirm several times that it’s indeed a time machine. And if anything, walking wake and iron leaves DISPROVE the imagination theory because if it were true, we wouldn’t get walking wake or iron leaves, we’d get exact replicas of their depictions in the scarlet/violet book.
The interesting part of the “creativity” theory is that the “Time Machine” used to summon them is the mysterious disk Pokemon mentioned in the Scarlet/Violet journal. The implication is that there is a being so powerful that is can create life from the wishes of those around it. That is Eldritch horror to its finest.
Personally, I'm most partial to your Option 4 (Not My Final Form) and it's what I've been going off of for my Paradox designs when applicable for the recent videos I've been putting out. I'd like to imagine that these forms that haven't evolved are more than capable of staying in their niche/ecosystems and haven't yet needed to evolve to get a better leg up on their predators and what not!
Two out of the three designs that are coming out in my next video this weekend are Pokemon that I reimagined as past variants that have some features/stats of potential evolutions as foreshadowing. While I really do enjoy how out there Sandy Shocks design is, I'd also have loved to seen a version that showed almost an in between form of Magneton and Magenzone to highlight the Pokemon transitioning into a stronger form - a rare sight we normally wouldn't be privy to!
that sounds fricken awesome! lookin forward to it, you just earned a new sub haha
@@windmill9998 appreciate u!!!
another interesting thing is prior to scarlet and violet (and the swsh dlc), wigglytuff, mismagius, and magnezone were extremely rare in the wild or simply just not present as encounters... and when they were in gen 5, it was through the rustling grass mechanic in areas that were already post-game. even in paldea, youre only able to encounter them in the wild fairly late, although theyre much more common than they were in previous games and regions.
perhaps the paldea of the past was more similar to other regions, and their past paradox equivalents were also so rare/completely absent from the wild that none could have been brought back? that doesn't explain why they don't evolve in the future, but none of the paradox pokemon can evolve or breed in the first place
Yeah, that factors into my thought that perhaps they were _able_ to evolve in the past but the circumstances never aligned properly for it to happen.
I definitely agree most with the final form theory. What I find even more fun is to speculate what necessitated the need for evolution in the species.
Perhaps there was too much competition for food on the ground for Scream Tail so it sacrificed bulk to become more balloon like and reach higher place and in doing so become more exposed to lunar activity.
I think it is because the paradox mons are just Terapagos (that new turtle mon recently revealed) bringing to life the imaginations of what people thought versions of these Pokemon in the past would be. There is a reason their only recorded accounts are in an occultum magazine. So people simply thought that things like evolutions stones weren't available in the ancient past, so therefore when Terapagos pulled from people's imaginations to bring forth new Paradox Pokemon, we get cases like this where mons like Jigglypuff, Misdreavus, and Magneton have paradoxes and not their evolutions. It also would explain why Walking Wake and Iron Leaves exist since they were just Heath's imagination brought to life (though it seems like the idea Heath imagined is a bit different than what was produced).
Also Fun Fact: Walking Wake and Iron Leaves were supposed to be in the base game but were held back for saome reason untl now
I should mention this is 100% based on leaks about the DLC
Sandy Shocks could have been a lost pre-evolved form of Magnetmite. Perhaps few Sandy Shocks had the ability to eject their main body from the rest of their "colony" in to escape predation, and was able to live just long enough to reproduce with another Sandy Shock. This ability could be refined over generations, to the point where the singular organism could live comfortably without their colony. They eventually re-evolve the components that were discarded generations ago, but they now use the same propulsion system that kept the main body afloat.
Regarding Option 3, it could simply be a case of Convergent Evolution. It explains why so many plants turn into Trees, why so many crustaceans turn into Crabs, and why so many mammalian electric Pokémon turn into Pikachu clones.
Reject humanity, evolve into crab.
Now with the introduction of Walking Wake, I think the imaginary theory has gained some credence. How could Suicune possibly have a Paradox form if it didn't exist until Ho-Oh resurrected the dead Pokemon at the Brass Tower? Clearly at least some of these Pokemon were imagined.
Wait... but what if Ho-Oh's resurrection of Suicune and the others included the material in the ground beneath them, which happened to be from remains of Pokemon like Walking Wake, resulting in chimeras that became the legendary beasts?
Imagine a flutter mane evolution, that would be absolutely monstrous
Really wish Dunsparce had a past Paradox instead of that evolution, felt like GF did that on purpose
Dunsparce's evolution is a 'shut up already '
You brought up some great natural theories, though I do still lean towards Option 5. I don't think they are "Real" in the sense that they really existed in the past/future, but I don't think this is the same as "it was all a dream" at all. The idea that the Pokemon were created by the will of the imagination of people (with the help of Terapagos perhaps) is a fascinating twist to me. There's just no logical way that Paradox Pokemon are natural imo, there has to be something else going on and I like it that way. I think it's cool and allows for really creative and interesting Pokemon to exist. I'm curious to see if this will be answered but it's fun reading speculation about it.
The way I see it is that any evolution method that is dependent on a individual pokemon fulfilling specific requirements aren't naturally acquired evolutions, compared to level up evolutions which is a method that's based more on a Pokemon's natural growth. The issue isn't that unevolved paradox pokemon can't evolve farther, it's that they and most other pre-stone evolved mons are already in their "natural" final forms.
I think its definitely that they are the final evos, like they developed the capability to evolve, kinda like how butterflies would have gained the ability to go through metamorphosis but it's just more inherent to Pokemon
We saw something similar with the Unown in that Entei movie where it was just a product of the girl's wishes... Entei materialized so these Paradoxes can be the materialization of Heath, Sada and Turo's wishes to find rare Pokémon in the crater, or to create a time machine to bring them from the past/future
But the Entei in the 3rd movie wasn’t a stable entity. It desolved instantly the moment the Unown were defeated. The Unown are creatures (until PLA came around) that work(ed) with Arceus to create life.
The Paradox Pokémon seem to be completely stable creatures.
Mini Theory: Scream Tail could be the ancestor of the Cleffa evolution line, and the modern igglypuff line are the distant relatives of Scream Tail that lived in space
That actually was a theory going around before gen 8 at the very least. That the Jigglypuff line is a more basal relative of Clefairy due to coming from the Moon much more recently.
in my opinion, the theory is better that all paradox pokemon are cryptids invented by people and brought to life by the power of terapagos. This explains why there is a suikun paradox and why the salamens paradox has wings. Or are they just from the changed timeline, that is, literally paradoxes that do not fit with the history of Pokemon
All these theories are very fascinating, but I think the reason is more prosaic, and it's the fact that Jigglypuff, Misdreavous and Magneton are more popular than their evolutions, and that's why the paradoxes are based on them 😁
Great video! I agree with you, I too think they didn’t evolve further.
P.S. I‘m really curious about what you think of the Original Stitch Pokémon patterns and was wondering if you ever thought to make a video discussing your thoughts on them, would totally watch! :)
Interesting. Made my wife and I suddenly realise, in a similar way, are there unevolved forms for all of these? A magnemite, or a ralts? Somehow I find that hard to believe. Not sure I have an explanation, hopefully it's satisfying in the end, so far mixed on Gen 9 story
I hope so, because I find Pokémon that evolve more interesting. But I don't expect that we will ever see them.
bro it is literally imagination, the theory is insanely strong
You know, I've always pondered this. Before watching this video, the theory that I had is that if they are, indeed, from the past and not some alternate reality, then they didn't NEED to evolve to survive.
My theory is more that the paradox pokemon are a hold over from a previous iteration of the game, when time travel was a much larger part of the game.
But that proved to be too much of a divergence between versions, which would cost even more development time than it already was taking. In addition to the bunch of "new" pokemon for each version.
So they took the best designs of the respective versions, and just threw out the rest.
(Although I dislike this idea, because it implies that the future paradoxes that we go were actually the best they had.)
Scream Tails could be a also related to puffballs hence Jigglypuffs resambles kirby meaning Scream connected to Void Termina
I would say it´s like how in the past, Scyther evolved into Kleavor, but in modern times we have Scizor as its predominant evolution. Sure that example is bound to items, but the principle fits.
Here's another interesting thing...
The designer of Flutter Mane's favourite Pokemon is... Misdreavus
I'm talking about Hitoshi Ariga.
Misdreavus was also the first TCG card he did over ten years ago. He's been a fan of Misdreavus for a long time. I guess it was a no brainer for him when coming up with a paradox pokemon
I'd like to expand on the "dream" theory you mentioned. The theory does not say that these Pokémon aren't real, it says that they were created by imagination. Basically this theory revolves around the idea that the 3rd legendary shown in the Scarlet/Violet book is able to grant the wishes of those who come to Area Zero, like a genie of the lamp, so when Sada/Turo wanted to create a time machine to meet the Pokémon mentioned in the book they read as a child, the Pokémon granted this wish by creating a fake time machine and the Paradox Pokémon. This also explains why some Paradox forms look different from how they are depicted in the book (the best example is Iron Treads, look at how different its feet are), since the Pokémon we meet are based on the idea the professor has of them, which doesn't necessarily have to be 100% accurate. And this would also explain why the two Koraidon/Miraidon behave so differently: the first one, the one that accompanies us in our adventure, is created from the original Sada/Turo's mind, which imagines the Pokémon as a friendly goofball; the other one derives from AI Sada/Turo's mind (which, by the way, likely were also a wish granted by the Legendary Pokémon), who being more rational they didn't romanticize the description of this legendary and imagined it as the fierce creature described in the book.
Personally, if the paradox mon are created from imagination I think the box legendary is closely related to the Cyclizar the author of the Scarlet/Violet book had.
I actually surprised we did not get a Caveman/cyborg Pikachu like that could've been crazy!!! I lean more towards option 4-6 btw
This is something that has been bothering me too and I’m not subscribed to the idea that Paradox Pokémon aren’t real. I hope these Pokémon are like ultra beasts aka species that live in a different dimension that happens to look like species that live on our planet so I guess a hybrid between ultra beasts and convergent species? I hope the dlc gives us a good explanation but I’m not holding my breath if I’m being honest
I feel like it's likely the reason why the Paradox Pokemon don't have evolutions is that they're not actually real as there's in-game evidence supporting it, even Arven mentioned to contractary info that a Paradox Pokemon was found before the "time machine" was made in the Scarlet Book if the 3rd Legendary is a Dream Pokemon that can make your dreams come true.
Why else do you think they're called, "Paradox Pokemon"?
Awwwwwww shit UmbreonLibris is back let's goooooooo
Personally I am a subsciber to option 5. Though, if we assume the paradox mons are real after all, then I favor option 4. It seems weird to me to consider the Watsonian option 6 though when you don't apply that logic to the other possibilities (such as base stat totals being equal purely due to game balance reasons)
I asked a lot of questions without exploring all their possible answers. If you want to use game design choices to answer some of them, that's certainly an option!
One interesting thing I thought of is that…what if the evolutions of these paradox Pokémon do exist, we just aren’t able to access them yet. Now that we know SV will be getting DLC I think it would be interesting to get an item specifically used to evolve these Pokémon into their paradox evolutions. Not sure what they would do for the future paradox though, maybe their pre-evolutions?
2:38 oh that's explained in the game. The Turo/Sada AIs confirm that the process of time traveling actually made these pokemon stronger in some mysterious way. This means that (probably with the exception of Iron Valiant and the paradox pseudos) they are actually weaker than what we get in the game
Your right, the dream theory would be a pretty disappointing conclusion.
The Dream Theory is the best one, it has a lot of potential compared to the other ones.
The other theories have holes the size of the sun.
It doesnt make sense for them to be called paradox if the are really from the past or future.
The only problem I have in the Time Travel prevents evolution theory is in G,S,C. Bill created a trade machine that could send things through Time both ways. (All Pokémon media is part of a canon multiverse)
During the fine tuning of his Time Machine trading system, Bill accidentally caused an Eevee to come through and it could still evolve just fine.
option 4 regarding future mons, the counter argument would be, maybe they are next stage evolutions of current mons, they look metallic because they need to evolve into metallic form due to future circumstance
I honestly would really like the fact that they would be just dreamed up. I’ve been waiting for dream mons for a while now, and doing it in the form of time travel journey to the center of the earth is extremely cool.
The fact that the time travel crystals also create infinite energy, can sustain AI, and change the types of pokemon all but confirms that they are not what we are lead to believe. These crystals feel made up, even for pokemon. I am sure we'll know for sure before the end of the year.
Personally, I believe it’s due to them changing their habitat and eventually becoming weaker due to it, requiring them to develop evolutions.
What I think that could be possible, within lore:
1) A billion years ago could be an overstatement from Occulture to be sound more sentionalistic as a either marketing tool or just ignorance.
2) That bilion years is actually correct, but considering that the Jigglypuff line is thought could be an alien line from the Pokémon World, maybe it's being taken from that other planet, or that was the form they had when they arrived a billion years ago.
3) With the such high Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed stats from Flutter Mane, it could be it was enough for it to fend off any threats it could face without evolution. Thus, until it was advantageous to be so OP that it didn't need to evolve.
4) Sandy Shocks at the time, hadn't gotten to the point of fully becoming magnetic, and had not yet evolved (in the biology sense of the word) the ability to use just metals and using the fact that ground is an electricity sink (hence why it's a Ground-type instead of a Steel-type).
If it were just that they picked Pokémon on popularity, then it's surprising (at least to me) they didn't go with a half-Sharpedo half-Garchomp Water/Dragon Paradox Pokémon or take a fossil Pokémon and show us how [Instert name of fossil Pokémon here] looked like before the fossilization and reanimation processes to confirm that this should be considered as "this is what the Pokémon World evolutionary history is like for realsies"
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Personally, I'm concerned with a sort of oppposite problem: Why does Roaring Moon exist? Bagon, Shelgon & Salamence's Pokedex entries indicate the evolution is from a mix of a long-held dream to fly, head hardening from jumping off cliffs, & very rapid cellular metamorphosis to prepare to evolve as Shelgon. Evolutionarily, this is framed like a recent development, meaning the Salamence species came to be recently.
Evolutionarily, Salamence is TOO NEW of a species for it, let alone its Mega Evolved form to have a prehistoric counterpart! Roaring Moon is too suspicious.
Scream Tail is the only paradox of a pokemon that was never considered fully evolved
I like the theory of the paradox mons being convergent evolutions. Like ictiosaurus x dolphins. If they’re just lookalikes and not genetically related to their modern “counterparts” they don’t need to follow their evolution pattern
I think your theory on the idea that they aren't the pokemon they look like could work in another aspect. We get told that they are from the future or past but there is no actual proof they are, and the book in the postgame offers some interesting ideas since they hint at paradox pokemon that they made up for fun, but in today's pokemon announcement they show up as real. Perhaps the time machine isn't a time machine at all, but is simply drawing from what the professors wanted to see and creating new pokemon based on those dreams, as it seems likely that another pokemon is involved to make the "time travel" possible and it would then explain the inconsistencies of why some of these paradox forms just don't make sense with the lore we know. They don't make sense because they aren't ancestors or evolutions of what we know.
Your theory that they are not direct ancestors is actually a pretty good one. A real world example would be the dire wolf, it would have looked and behaved very similar to wolves today but dire wolf's genetic show it is actually much more closely related to Jackals. We are more closely related to chimps the dire wolves are related to wolves today.
that would make sense why you find pichu fur in Area Zero (other than beating up Richu)
I keep my theory of them being created by the third legendary... Trying to play God since you can see his eyes in the Tera crystal
my favorite theory is that the Time Machine isn’t a Time Machine, but an imagination machine
they aren’t truly the predictors to our modern Pokémon, they’re imagined Pokémon like the Scarlet/Violet book depicts Walking Wake/Iron Leaves
I’m not saying Pokémon like Great Tusk didn’t exist, I’m saying they did exist and had their evolutions, but the books didn’t show them, so when Sauda/Tauro read them and imagined the Pokémon, they didn’t imagine any evolutions
From what I know about evolution and biology reason 4 "This is my final form" is the most likely. Likely in the past Scream Tail faced environmental pressure that made being "weaker" with a lower base stat total was more advantageous whether it meant needing less food because of it or making it more adaptable, who is to say, then once pressure let up it was easier to acquire a new evolution than to build its base stat total back up. We have seen similar phenomena happen in the past, for example synapsids becoming smaller during the age of dinosaurs turning into mammals only to grow and diversify once the dinosaurs were extinct.
I think in the past the Pokémon had a other way to evolve and we doesn’t no the way
I'm still kinda bummed that my boi the face of pokemon itself "fat rat" didn't get a past and future paradox form
I think paradox pokemon could possibly be convergent evolution.
Which is basically when two completely different species develop similar features independently of eachother.
Hm, these are some very interesting Options, some of which seems very likely too, but i guess we’ll see if we’ll get an official answer or not.
Hopefully, we get something.
Maybe their evolution methods are different from the modern versions and are unknown. For example: common sandshrew evolves at level 22 but the Alolan one evolves with the Ice Stone which was unknown prior to Gen 7. Maybe there is another stone or evolution method to be discovered
Thank you for talking about that interpretation of the "They aren't real" theory because I feel the same way and have yet to hear someone else say it
besides jigglypuff, its notable that misdreavus and magneton didnt evolve further when they were first introduced in pokemon, so this may be a little nod to that
i do imagine its because en-masse production of stone-evolved pokemon would be even less believable than they already are, or maybe they just knew jigglypuff is more recognizable than wigglytuff
I like the idea of them being there final evos
Interesting topic. Consider cover next which are the pre-evolved forms of the other Paradox Pokemon.
Not a lore explanation, but more of fun theory.
Two of these Pokémon only got their evolution in a generation they didn’t debut in, Sandy Shocks and Flutter Mane. As for Scream Tail, while Jigglypuff did get Wigglytuff in gen 1, it didn’t get Igglybuff until gen two, making it the final evolution in whatever past or world it came from.
I think that the SEPP answer could still be right, maybe in the future, when future Pokemon reproduce, they are modified to have fully evolved babies.
I still believe those are no real Pokemon from the future or past, more like imaginary Pokemon created by a new legendary we'll get to explore probably in a new DLC. There's that hexagon being that influenced that one professor that created the two books. There you see an image/photogrpahy of Great Tusk and Iron Tread but they look quite different.
But there are two pages with some text reading "we imagine what other creatues could lie here", with a Suicune feat. feats of Entei and Raikou. So if someone is close to that hexagon Pokemon and is like "I wish a futuristic Mewtwo would exist", it could create one.
It could be entirely past/future Pokemon though, but I feel like we get totally fiddled and it's actually about "imagination".
I prefer the stone answer because it's the most consistent one, they all have stone evolutions and none of the others do, and the others are all "fully evolved "
all of these pokemon were the final form in previous generations (except for scream tail) so that could be a reference to the past in the real world
Maybe moon stones and sun stones are parts of the meteorites that were a part of lunatone and solrock. And the meteorites just hadn't landed yet
My theory is that the concepts for most of the game of scarlet and violet was made during game freaks lunch break so they had no time to make evolutions
i mean, going into this it's probably just because two out of the three used to be fully evolved within the series, and we can assume that jigglypuff used to be fully evolved before gen 1
4:13 this one, basically
5:03 you could argue that that sort of happened with iron valiant considering they're based off of MEGA gallade, a further evolution of gallade. though otherwise it just hasn't happened. i mean, out of the paradox pokemon that aren't of 3 stage fully evolved pokemon there's iron hands, iron bundle, iron moth, iron treads, and arguably miraidon (though miraidon feels more different from cyclizar than koraidon does tbh, could be an evolution considering their default stance literally hovers and stuff)
not including the somewhat legendary type:null, the highest bst a pokemon has as a not fully evolved pokemon is scyther at 500, which means that hariyama, delibird, and donphan are currently valid candidates for still getting another evolution. in fact, delibird has one of the lowest BSTs of a fully evolved pokemon. considering tyranitar's paradox form isn't mega, however, it's possibly delibird unlocks a mega form or something like that and that is enough for them to prosper. (i mean, their bst would actually still be below 500, but give them wonder guard or something and you're in business)
With the release of the new Paradox Suicune, I have a really good feeling that the paradox pokemon aren't real and are creations from someone
For 2 out of the 3, the pokemon they were based on were the final form for some games, but scream tail? I got nothing.
My theory is about Metamorphosis in biology, and how it may relate to pokemon evolution and thus paradox forms. Irl, metamorphosis is about the stages in a creature's life cycle. Typically metamorphosis begins with a less-DNA-dependent lesser form, slowly consuming enough proteins to assume a more DNA/protein intensive form in the next stage of the life cycle, which is when they become adults able to reproduce. Some pokemon can be seen as this metamorphosis, specifically the Tyranitar evolution line referencing the stages of metamorphosis in a large amount of creatures (pupal, larval, adult.)
This could mean a lot of pokemon are merely child/pupa/adult forms, like Gible could be a pupa, and Gabite a larva, etc. The part that makes the theory work with Paradox pokemon, is that some pokemon could have evolved baby forms to make the eggs hatch more efficiently, or could have evolved more advanced forms to make a new stage of metamorphosis. Great Tusk could have been a predecessor to Donphan that never evolved a baby form like Phanpy, the idea being they are born out the egg as an absolute unit since they never had a need to slowly grow into a stronger form. Scream Tail could have never needed a stronger form in the distant past, therefore never evolving into a Wigglytuff-like form. This also explains why paradox pre-evolutions do not exist, and also why they can't breed.
In ecosystems around the world, there's a risk/reward to raising either a large amount of young, or a small amount of young but more carefully. The idea of whether or not spending the extra time to ensure new young can survive is better than just having tons of babies in the long-run. People typically have 1 child per pregnancy, as we tend to raise our young with the utmost care, while rabbits can have as many as 16 babies per litter. The past paradox forms likely spend so much energy creating new young, that they rarely reproduce in the modern world of Paldea, or that the reproduction time scale is just so insanely long that you'd never catch the moment or something of the sort.
Maybe gamefreak just thought "prehistoric pokemon cool" and that was that, but I like to imagine there's more thought put into it than that.
The reason why there are no future paradox pre evolutions is quite simple, their lore is that they are machine versions of the pokemons, ment as unclear weapons. So the future paradox forms aren't as much of a mystery as the past paradox mons are
Interestingly there is kinda one example of a new evolution that doesn't exist in the future forms. Iron Valiant has traits of both Gardevoir and Gallade, it's not really meant to be either so it could be considered some new future evolution of a future Kirlia.
I'm definitely more partial to theory 5 though, I think it would make the most sense overall.
Option four is so funny
It took evolution to get an evolution
It seems that the yet to be seen final evolution may be a wish granter, thus the creation of the concepts brought to life, potentially.
Here's my theory: paradox pokémon are real but at the same time they are not. Let me explain: the thing with paradox pokémon that bothers me a ton is their BST. Most of them have a BST of 570 and this doesn't make consistent with their modern counterparts. Jigglypuff has a BST of 270 while Scream Tail is 570. How did Jigglypuff became weaker in the span of 1 billion years? a more extreme example are Cyclizar, Donphan and Volcarona who were powerful, then became weaker and then became powerful like how the heck is this possible? my theory is that both past and future paradox ARE real, meaning that there was no Wigglytuff, no Mismasius and no Magnezone in the past but were altered by the time machine. We'll have to see tomorrow if they give us more hints about who are really them.
i'm with you here, i think these are just some examples of Pokémon that hadn't yet developed their evolved stages yet, and maybe there are weaker ones back in the past that aren't even sufficiently strong enough on their own, but eventually will be
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Surely you saw the full-length intro in my last video, no?
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actually im pretty sure the area around area zero is a magnetic zone, theres also natural spawning magnezone, so i see holes there.
I feel like the reason is because they didn't need to evolve, but through time they needed an evolution because other pokemon have grown stronger and so they had to have done it too.
Regardless of the deal with paradox Pokémon, all of them make me feel... uneasy. Idk how to describe it but looking at these creatures and knowing they don't belong and they came from somewhere else gives me a sort of uncanny valley feeling. What do they know that we don't?
May just be an evolution type thing with the past ones like how RS and DP legendaries changed from the past, and due to those changes, their genetics act differently.
Scream Tail became Jigglypuff when its vocabulary changed. It can no longer say Scream Tail and can only say Jigglypuff. :P
Good video. Definitely lots of interpretation with paradox pokemon. Will be super interesting to see how it develops as gen 9 marches on.
I think the reason why past paradox pokemon all have the same base stat total might be because they diverged from mew earlier on and didn’t have enough time to diversify to the point where their stats can differ greatly from each other
I think the reason that some past ones are unevolved while the future ones are fully evolved is because, well, why would anyone want a robot Larvesta, Makuhita, or Ralts in the future when their superior evolutions already existed?
I think the “they are the final form” theory is correct. For past paradox they only really needed to survive so it makes sense to stop evolving when you meet a decent survival and thriving rate in the species, but future paradox and even current pokemon have been seen to evolve purelly by the need to be better in pokemon battles because civilization has basically turned battles into their reason for existing so it would make sense that in the future, the optimall stage for the species is a final form with an extra layer of armor and tecnology that can max out every stat as much as possible. Perhaps in the future there arent even contests or breeders anymore so being cute and small isn’t viable anymore for a species and battles is their only choice
It could simply be that at this point in their eras, there was no reason in evolve. If we use Obstagoon as reference, as the final evolution to the oldest branch of the Zigzagoon Line, it likely developed evolution as a response to the environment.
It could be that after descendants of the past Paradox lost a great deal of their natural potential, resulting in them developing evolution down the road. Because some wild Pokémon are able to evolve without the stones (if we use Noble Arcanine, Wigglytuff, Raichu, and Mismagius in various location).
It's implied that once a pokemon reaches an evolution due to survival or power, future generations of pokemon will have it sorta, saved rather than needing to be created.
It's implied heavily especially with eevee, once some happening gets a new evolution i assumed within a few generations or just the way pokemon mass breed, it becomes more and more common until everyone has it.
Therefore these mons have not had an ancestor achieve that evolution, even if the theory is 'they were just in the crater for so long not from the past actually' still is accounted for.
For robots...they were built that way.
i personally just like to think they just didn't have evolutions or prevolutions at the time they were pulled from, they were just single stage pokemon
only as time went on and the primordial energy that flowed through the ancient pokemon world began to dry up, the prehistoric pokemon that thrived on it had to start evolving to give birth to young sooner/there being less energy put into the egg, leading to them being less developed right out of hatching, and others started finding other sources of elemental power such as evolution stones to reach the strength they used to have
as for why no future paradoxes are unevolved, i believe they were constructed to replace pokemon that had gone extinct in the future and those pokemon had never gotten the chance to change, gain and lose forms, new evolutions, etc, so they were just built as their most powerful forms known
deep inside we all know its option 6. we might try to pretend its not, but it still is
Option 4 has more then you give it credit. Iron valiant is a case for it but I like paradox mons bring ultra beast but there to similar to the mons in our world to be truly ultra beast.
Personally, I more so subscribe to Option 4, back then these Pokemon were their final form, but as they evolved, they generally got weaker, until the need arose for them to develope into more mature forms potentially this being why they're stone evolutions, because they themself couldn't evolve, but they still required the means to evolve, so they instead evolved into being dependant on evolutionary stones, or I guess in the case of Magneton, it might've evolved into weaker forms until it gained an aptitude for/became susceptible to the specific magnetic waves that come about in places like Mt.Coronet or Chargestone Cave to meld its heads together. As for why this wouldn't affect the future forms, so far, I guess it's somewhat unknown wether these future forms naturally evolved from their original forms, or if they were modified by humans or even specifically rebuilt by humans in those forms, especially if the latter is the case, it'd make sense that the future Paradox-Pokemon would all be taking after their currently known final, strongest evolutions.
Most likely Scream Tail, Flutter Mane, & Sandy Shocks didn't need to evolve as they had more power than the current incarnations. It's said that Primal Energy existed in the past and these Pokemon were stronger for it.
But as time went on, it slowly disappeared and these Pokemon needed to compensate for their lost source source of power with a new evolution. Even Groudon and Kyogre became weaker with the lack of Primal Energy and can only revert temporarily with its crystallized form.
i believe that pokemon evolution is an environmental adaptation caused by darwinian evolution, so "unevolved" past paradoxes would be from a time prior to the evolution of the ability to become that next stage. some past paradoxes resemble modern day fully evolved pokemon because at the time they were pulled from, they already had evolutions. this doesn't mean that they came from the same time as other past paradoxes, but it doesn't mean that they had to be from a different time either.
i think that various past paradoxes were different from each other due to their environment and changes that happened to it. while some paradoxes likely evolved into modern day pokemon or were closely related to a pokemon that evolved into what we're familiar with now. scream tail and flutter mane are examples of this, scream tail has clefairy and jigglypuff features while scream tail has misdreavus and sneasel features. roaring moon likely evolved into salamence as well, since mega evolution seems to activate genetics from roaring moon.
there is an example of a paradox pokemon that almost certainly went extinct, though. slither wing's vestigial wings indicate it evolved from a line of pokemon capable of flight yet is no longer capable of flight itself. it is more likely that volcarona evolved from ancestors capable of flight that likely out-competed slither wing when the environment started to change.
These are both from the future. The one where robotnik won and the one that sonic won.
It's because the disturbance of the time machine keeps them like that