To be fair, when people say they hate p. in media, they mean far left gender and race ideas being implemented in. No videogame or movie is adopting far right points, and no one is complaining about the pentagon pushing Top Gun and stuff like that.
@@Klongu_Da_Bongu Oh those silly chinese, all flocking to the cinemas to watch that pesky Korean war movie where they win, imagine consuming propaganda haha! Btw who's coming to see Maverick after dinner? -Average american
@@fedyx1544 In America we can have both, its just that the self-hating guilt spree that Hollywood has been on isn't entertaining or intelligent. Its rather rare that something gets the nerve to cater to right-leaning audiences. I mean, the military looking cool in movies DOES resonate with military families, but every movie keeps making the military into villains.
Absolutely yes. Politics is probably the hardest topic to even comprehend, and still it's the topic people like to simplify the most. Typical writer would just simplify it to death and spice it up with his own agenda making it as hateful as it gets.
A bit unrelated, but I love how political ideologies are handled in Disco Elysium where no matter what you pick, you will be up for deranged shenanigans no matter if you go ultraliberal, communist, fascist or moralist. The game makes fun at all of it. Went Moralist for my first. Will probably go commie next playthrough. As for FONV. Legion is fun. NCR boring. Safest bet however is the house. He is actually trying something different unlike NCR and Legion who are rehashing previous failed civilisations. I don't trust Autocrats for obvious reasons, but Mr House genuinely seems to have Humanities best interest in mind. He could make it work.
@@Ozzianman House is quite literally trying to reproduce good'ol America. He was one of the "winners" of capitalism, so he has good reasons to believe it is a good system, even if he's on top of it. He is trying to reproduce the Fallout America, with its autocratic society and its flaws. But yeah, at least he's going somewhere, unlike the NCR, and I'm not even speaking about the legion (although they do have drip).
It's not only not a secret that the Devs used Arcade and Veronica to espouse their own opinions, it's also not true at all lmao. The companion characters were written by different people with differing views on both fallout AND the real world. But more importantly, by competent writers who established personalities to those characters and used those personalities as a reference for their views.
Yeah that’s the current thing I see wrong with the vid as arcade and Veronica Are not the political views of the devs especialy with the fact of how differing they can be
Josh Sawyer has said in a forum post that Arcade’s views, idealism and personality are inspired from his own. However, he also stated that Arcade isn’t supposed to directly represent himself. It’s the same with Kreia from KOTOR II, while Chris Avellone wrote Kreia to largely reflect his own views on the Star Wars Universe (Namely the stupidly cyclical nature of it). Kreia isn’t designed to be his stand-in but a dialectic tool in which, Avellone himself even states that Kreia is ultimately wrong. It’s literally just writers reflecting on the universe they were given, and using the characters they’ve written to propose interesting questions about said universe-nothing more. I think.
Arcade 100% represents the average view of Obsidian writers (Veronica I'm not as sure I don't think her politics aren't as clear).There's no way you write a story as politically nuanced and complex as New Vegas without leaning pretty far left. Sure there may be a neo lib or two in there but that was a pretty leftist writing team. Someone who gravitates toward the right wouldn't have been capable of writing something in this particular style. I don't mean this in an offensive way but it's simply true
@@talismanbrunski2582 I get what you're trying to say, and I just don't agree that one thing means the other. Most writers (most artists) are either leftists or at least view themselves as progressives. But that doesn't mean a character's particular personality and outlook is a consensus of the writers' views. Arcade wants the NCR and the Legion out. Most people want the Legion out for obvious reasons, and Arcade wants the NCR out for personal reasons and not for any conviction that the NCR is too imperialistic (IIRC). Not to mention each character was written by a single writer with little interference. Arcade even more so since he was written by the director.
I wish the Followers of the Apocalypse weren’t so sidelined in the independent ending. With all the resources the courier can accumulate they could’ve supported not only New Vegas in its journey to self sufficiency but the entire Mojave
real!!! the followers deserve much more attention, apparently theres a glitch in the independant ending where they will fail no matter what. oh well, thats what happens when a dev team gets forced too cut corners too get too the deadline (fuckin bethesda..)
That would be an obviously good ending. And that was not intended. Everything in reality is a grey scale. You have to decide between a douche and a turd sandwich. And all the while underline that it is important to support charity.
Another thing is how the developers let female characters experience misogyny within the Mojave. From guys on the strip catcalling you pussycat and babydoll, to the Legion talking about how inferior you are as a woman and how they're going to rape you. It shows such a level of consideration and intelligence on the developers part. It makes the world feel much more real and dangerous to be a woman in a post apocalyptic setting
@@regalcartoon3952 pretty sure they treat them worse that women in the '20s, considering they are based off the beginning of the first millennia of the Christian Era Roman Empire
The powder gangers absolutely do not show that goodsprings needs outside help. In fact, if you cause a fight between them and do nothing, goodsprings wins, and a fight probably wouldn't even have happened without the courier's interference
You could still argue that it shows Goodsprings's precarious situation. That's a breakaway subfaction of what is arguably the least ideologically driven and least well organized faction in the Mojave (just basically a bunch of guys thrown together by a situation). And those guys are what this place considers a threat? In other words, knocking back the dregs of the local opportunists is the kind of boast that might be just as likely to invite conquest as to scare it off. Anyone bigger would roll right through.
That is probably for gameplay reasons since the player will probably side with Goodsprings. It should also be noted that multiple residents die regardless so it still shows that the are in danger
There would absolutely be a fight without the couriers interference. Just look at primm. These guys aren't looking to just stay holed up in their prison, they're looking to pillage nearby towns.
Fallout 1 2 and NV feel like they were made by vault city people. A mix of different people ideas and views. They keep to the theme of morally greys vs black and white good and bad. No matter who you choose the world of fallout is messed up. So no matter which background choices you choose it won't matter. The divide big Mt and the legion P much mess up any progress no matter who you choose to help or kill off. Also Legion and other areas got cut because 18 months. NCR were the first ones made and everyone else came after. Legion got sadly the short end of the stick.
@@TiocfaidhArLa34you can walk there without TCL, it's called the deathclaw promontory. It has a bunch of deathclaws to prevent you from swimming there immediately to grab the Remnant's Power Armor (The only piece of Enclave armor you can get without play For Auld Lang Syne)
@@TiocfaidhArLa34 there is a little hill you can climb without any rocks, it's very narrow so if you look from far away or from a certain point it looks like there's nothing there. Same happens with Cerulean Robotics, took me 3 playthroughs back in 2012 to notice that there was a passage next to the train station in Freeside
As with any good form of education, storytelling, and choice, it presents you with choices that show you how to think, but not what to think. You are given complicated scenarios that make you consider the consequences, context, and reasoning and you are forced to draw a conclusion. Fallout New Vegas is a Grade A example of how a western RPG should handle choices, consequences, and beliefs.
Great video and I agree, Obsidian at the time were so brilliant at writing a story. The legion utterly horrified me when I first played the game, but Caesar was not some one dimensional baddie, nor was he portrayed as 'cool' when you got to know him. Most writers, more so in games; would go with one of those two. Also FONV didn't have any of those 'morally good' but unlikeable characters you are expected to side with, [despite their actions giving you ample reason to hate them]; as has been a Bethesda hallmark post TES Oblivion.
the details i like about Caesar is that hes portrayed as an intellectual fraud. he oh so confidently quotes or references philosophy and latin while frequently mispronouncing or flat out misunderstanding the works. and he gets away with it because hes put himself in a position where the 99% people around him dont know better, and the ones that do wont say anything on account of not wanting to be eaten by dogs. i like it, its a realistic take on that type of character and ideology, its all a hollow facade
@@therideneverends1697 I mean his whole interpretation of roman society is wrong. Roman society was known for incorporating the gods and the people it conquered, and while they obv wouldn't be considered a "tolerant" state by modern standards as you still had to conform to the "roman way", they were rarely genocidal, I doubt they could be considered totalitarian in a modern sense, and most importantly every single one of their contemporary nations was (edit:also) nationalist and imperialist.
I very much disagree with the idea that the NCR are the favourites of the writers and definitely nothing is canon unless stated otherwise. Independent seems like the most likely candidate for a favourite given the themes of the DLC in particular with moving on from the past and the systems of the Old World to try something new, but since I believe Chris Avellone was mostly responsible for those it might only reflect his view. Josh Sawyer is pretty open about being left-wing and actually went on a podcast made up of Anarchists, Socialists and Communists so I think Independent is probably the closest fit for him too. John Gonzales was the lead writer on NV itself, but I can’t really say I know much about his personal politics.
@@nathanlevesque7812 But that's because they are the biggest presence in the Mojave. It's only natural they have the most attention if the Mojave barring NV is their territory.
@@nathanlevesque7812 To add on to what João said, the Legion as the only other big faction was intended to get more, but Obsidian never had the time. I imagine that as developers and designers they had to make executive decisions for what to prioritise and they would probably imagine that most people would end up siding with the NCR as the most visibly "good" faction. So, the Legion got shafted a bit. House and Independence are much smaller, and the latter especially is more of a path where you get free reign over what you do with each faction and how to deal with them, meaning there is less for other characters to get involved with. Obviously the development team is made up of all sorts of people, but I think the theme of the DLC speaks for itself when it comes to major endorsement for a faction choice. All of that being said, I do think Obsidian games, like this and the Pillars games and Tyranny, offer a lot of really complex choice for the factions and you can make a good argument for all of them, for the most part. The Devs never outright pick favourites by making one option better than the rest, but different shades. The DLC is really the only area where I would say a bit of conscious bias is shown, as opposed to the time constraints of development like with the NCR. Sorry for the long rant...
@@nathanlevesque7812 70+% of the map is NCR controlled Territory or surrounded by it (Vegas) so it makes sense you see more NCR than other factions. House only runs Vegas. Legion territory originally had more content planned, but they ran out of time.
I just finished one last night and I think it might be the most fun quest path, but maybe I'm biased because I'm tired of stopping President Kimbell's assassination.
The independent route of New Vegas really sealed the greatness of this game. The option is not there as a moral nor political option, as it was shown in the ending slides that it was a short-sighted decision that is ultimately bad for the strip, rather an opportunistic one. From our introduction to Benny, his plan, to killing him and meeting Yes Man, we were given a platform where we don't have to care about the bigger picture. Video games often skipped this route because opportunitic behaviors are seen as a greater evil in contemporary arts. Corporations are evil, corruption is the greatest sin, crime of opportunity is worse than crime of passion, and literary arts are escape from the bleak dystopian world. In the world of literary arts where heroism is praised and selfishness is shunned, New Vegas gives you the option to tell the story of someone whose value is tied to what they can achieve for themselves, instead of in relation to the world around
Key word being "short term." The only bad thing I can think of for the Independent Ending is how the Followers of the Apocalypse go through crunch. I can solve that easily by delivering Auto-Docs from the Big Empty, which are capable of performing surgeries that are light-years ahead of what's realistically feasible in the Wastelands. If New Vegas really empowers the player to solve problems, then I don't see why Independent Vegas can't also be a good long-term thing. The only real limit is the player's imagination.
@@ethicalapemen3686 Plus the Anarchy is understandable within that short term, your not the Legion, or NCR capable enforcing Martial Law in the aftermath of House going out the window, and House ending is just more of the same for the people of the Strip while Independence is where it needs to be hammered in that the Securitrons are just as if not more effective then before and that will take time.
The problem is, it doesn't matter if you're character has 10 Intelligence, 10 Luck, maxed good karma, 100 speech, 100 medicine, 100 science and high barter, high survival and the good natured perk. You STILL get that ending and I think that's bullshit. What? Mr. House can damn near predict the future because he has 10/10 in luck (implied in-game to be a stat that describes your characters ability to calculate probability) but my 10 Int and 10 Luck character can't? I call bullshit.
"It might be a hard pill to swallow, but the fact is that political opinion has more to do with their surrounding environment than their morality or intelligence" Do people really find that hard to believe?
But then how can individuals from the same environment develop vastly different world views? Even if you consider the environment as a significant factor in shaping political beliefs (which I agree to a certain extent), it's undeniable that personal moral codes and intelligence also play crucial roles in how they interpret their surroundings and form judgments based on their experiences.
@@pluntchgunster6156 i am not trying to both sides this, while yes a TON of conservatives believe that, all of them in fact (dont deny it) ive seen a lot of liberals think that conservatives are inherently evil because they believe theyre intentionally being reactionary the thing about conservativism is their leaders intentionally pander to the people outside the city, this can be seen by them spreading lies about new york, saying that it was “burned to the ground.” there was a tweet by some random woman saying that “young men are inherently evil and thats why they fall to the far right” when that aint the case now, im a followers of the apocalyse flavor of anarchist but nuance is still important
Yes.. the evil conservatives that are the backbone of infrastructure like farmers or builders. If you don't like em you don't like em, don't deny the fact that you can enjoy luxury cause of these guys toiling away 24/7 like a slave
I mean we dont get to meet any nipton residents as their all dead when we show up. The legion killed them because they tried to stay neutral and profit from NCR, powder gangers and legion troops, only choosing a side when forced to, breaking their neutrality in the process.
Another thing in Fallout New Vegas that I realized recently is the meaning of choosing a faction. You choose not just the goverment that you will support. You also accept the choice of how you will build the future, what you consider necessary for the future of the Mojave Wasteland and civilization in general. This is a choice not only of politics, but also of movement in life. Although it's probably obvious and everything was clear to everyone except me. You can try to grab onto something that had value before, try to use it somehow in a changed world, as the NCR does. They are trying to recreate pre-war America, to revive ideals that once made sense. At the same time, they are not just blindly trying to repeat the past, but are forced to adapt to the realities of the present days, problems and conflicts. You may decide that the NCR, on the contrary, is only following the same footsteps as pre-war America, which means it will fall in the same way. So it would be logical to start from the very beginning, to build a civilization from scratch. Caesar's Legion is like natural disaster sweeping away everything in its path, absorbing the weak, trying to move away from technologies of the old world. Caesar wants to start all over again, which means this process will be tough and merciless. What was, is gone, we need to move on - you can say. Then Mr. House's ideas will suit your preferences. His ideas aim straight to the stars. To leave the tragedies of the past in the past, instead, by all means to achieve a new order, which will allow to achieve heights, which NCR with their task to recreate America and, moreover, the Legion will take decades, if not centuries. Or you don't like or simply don't want to choose between these ideas. You are already satisfied with the state of the wastelands, in which you could contribute your own correctives. Independent Vegas is your choice of a rebel and an anarchist. In case if you don't want to change anything at all, you are satisfied with the way life was arranged once upon a time, but you just buried your head in the ground and pretend that everything is fine, no matter how bad the situation around you is, then you are a member of Brotherhood of Steel. And it is them who in most of scenarios of playthrough are doomed.
@@SenhorAlien rebel and anarchist part is that you choosing to go against not one, not two, but every major faction that is building society of some sort
I like the NCR. While I don't agree with them on all the things they are doing in the Mojave. They are the most well-intended faction. The only road Legion is going down is straight to hell. While they do modal them self's off of the Roman Empire, once Ceaser dies, they'll have a never-ending Civil War that will tear them apart. Mr. House is indeed a good man, but far to autocratic for my liking. He only thinks of the future and has little if no concern of the people's well-being in New Vegas. (Look at freeside) Yes Man's ending seems like a good decision at first, but when you think about it, the courier isn't one for setting down anywhere for too long. New Vegas would just revert to a simi-Democratic system anyway as the courier would set up some governing committee to simi-organize New Vegas. Once the courier gets bored or moves on, it's grained that New Vegas would fall into total anarchy and quit possibly get annexed by the NCR or a Legion spinner faction, or just become a grave yard of well intends and soldiers.
To be honest, I view siding with the Legion as the path to rebuild civilization. It's the natural progression of humanity. Remember these are backwards tribals who had barely any system of government that were united into a juggernaut. This is the natural progression of humanity. It will take centuries but eventually, the world will return to it's pre war glory and democracy will rise again
I find it funny how the NCR, originating from a tiny tribal town constantly threatened by raiders, did a better job of recreating the US than the actual Enclave, who are literally just military remnants of the original US. But it makes sense. America was founded by people who wanted new lives. You can't recreate America by trying to extend the life of a dead empire.
I saw that your videos disappeared from Niche Gamer's channel the other day. I'm really glad you uploaded them here too, because they're excellent. Seriously, you deserve more subscribers. Your videos on Epic Games Store and Steam Deck are great takes on their source material and pointed out things I'd never seen others mention (e.g. only 7% of EGS users who redeem the giveaways actually buy something). Keep it up dude, I look forward to seeing what you'll make in the future!
@@sciencemile I'd assume they had a contract and it simply expired. Either way, all of his videos from Niche Gamer are also available here, so nothing's lost.
Another UA-camr addressed politics in video games thusly: "The surest defense against accusations of tokenism in storytelling is artistic sincerity." That always stuck with me.
@@TiocfaidhArLa34 You can honestly and sincerely represent a group as a strawman if you are out of touch and believe those groups are actually like that. No one is more out of touch than the Hollywood writers that constantly strawman every group, it doesn't matter how "artistically sincere" they are if they pity or hate everything they write about.
The only good thing to come out of the Queen Cleopatra fiasco is people finally realizing how dumb that all is. I’m sure that was done for “artistic sincerity”.
Thank god! Someone acknowledged the conflict between urban and rural. Our lives are not the same, so we don't want the same policies. My experience in the mountains isn't a fellas in New York city
@@therideneverends1697 If only we could come to an agreement on that issue. If only it was a settled issue that no one wants back. If only we could stop bringing up obscene politics for the sole purpose of pinning it onto political opposition to fearmonger. The fact that you said "you guys" implies you think we (or anyone) actually wants that back. Do you honestly think you need to remind the party who freed the slaves about slavery? As if city-rats aren't slaves to the government right now, and you living on campus makes you my savior against my neighbors who want me in chains. I can handle myself as long as you don't take my guns away. Hipster gutter garbage. If you wanna play that game, I could bring up how Democrat politicians have always acted entitled to the black vote since the war. Or how the whole "parties switched" narrative doesn't account for new generations rebuking their parent's beliefs in the south, as if voters are just immortal and unchanging in beliefs. Amazing how slavery keeps being dug up as an issue by the city folk who would benefit the absolute most by making black people fear for their lives. You want us in your wartorn dystopia cities so you can keep telling us that THEY want us in chains, not you? Oh, and how defending ourselves is immoral and we should just trust the police who hate us so much?
Heck, my experience in Upstate and Western NY is also nothing like the experience of a fella in NYC. NYC is so different from the rest of the state that it has its own set of laws!
@@cancerbucket2245 And the slavery the Legion shows in New Vegas is more like rural american slavery than urban roman slavery. A slave in Rome was still property, but they had some protection. You couldn't just kill someone's slave. You couldn't just enslave anyone. And especially in urban Rome it was the slaves that did the housework and tought the kids. A slave was not just someone you own, but often a friend. Not uncommon that after a masters death the slave was freed and inherited with the former masters property. Slaves could even buy themselves free. In the rural parts that was obviously different, but at least in the cities they had a somewhat comfortable life. Slavery is still a bad thing, though.
New Vegas is one of those games that causes you to point out things in yourself. Your beliefs, your motivations, etc. An example of this is that sometimes I get pretty xenophobic when dealing with the White Legs, Fiends, and Mutants but that is because I died to this raves multiple times during my playthrough so I get naturally vengeful.
That part about non-city based peoples tending to favour decentralised governance seems to be a bit of an Americanism. The Nice Liberal versus Mean Liberal dichotomy is essentially unique to the States because of the way it's politics is railroaded.
But there's literally thousands of years of historical and archeological data indicating that people in the hinterlands of cities, globally throughout all of human history, tend to push for a more decentralized and less hierarchical bottom up approach to politics. Usually because cities start enacting taxes and demands on rural farmers without any input from them and with little benefit to the farmers. So of course they want local autonomy. The U.S. is actually very unusual in that a lot of rural people have started pushing for a stronger and more hierarchical central government since the 1980s.
The Left versus Right tribalism in the USA is crazy to me. As an outsider it is OBVIOUS that such extremeism is being used on their population as a tool to divide and conquer and that most politicians are just controlled opposition. It seems that at least 90% of major politicians are in the pocket of BigPharma and the FDA as well and it's crazy how many additives, dyes, GMO's, sugars, sodium, etc is in American food. It's as if the corporations running the USA want their population to be just sickly enough to have a slow and prolonged death so they can sell them pills and have them go through surgeries as a form of profit. Then you had the Covid "pandemic" where like 70% of the global population signed up to become guinea pigs for experimental shots with no ability to sue for harms experienced. What do I know though, I am a centralist Ugandan who believes in common sense and following your intuition instead of going with whatever you are being told by elites, politicians, or any other entity. As humans we possess sentience and the personal agency and freedom of thought such allows by extension. The fact that some humans resign themselves to just doing as they are told makes them no more aware than dogs following their owners commands. Sorry about the rant, I just find it strange how most people can't see the forest for the trees or just don't even care to bother.
Yeah much like Star Control 2, you don't always agree with the line of reasoning someone takes, but you can understand where they're coming from and how they got there. The Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah for example are genocidal but only because they've faced so many adversities since discovering other sentient life that you start to understand why they think the Eternal Doctrine is the answer.
That's why I love new vegas, even under scrutiny, the overall decisions of the major factions, their opinions of eachother and their wants for the future make sense. It doesn't matter that the decisions weren't "the best of all time for everyone" what matters is its what the people in those positions would do.
I wonder how many people thought a faction was too authoritatian so when they went the solo route they decided to completely wipe them out for not being open minded enough
Personally I go solo cause how incompetent they all are. The Legion literally relies on people like Caesar being in control, but it’s heavily implied Lanius will take over by force once he dies. They have a emphasis on melee tactics cause ‘honor and humanity’ but happily kill or enslave innocents, being little more than raiders that have a strict no drugs robots or cannibalism ground rule. All this Caesar allows while trying to pretend he’s a civilized intellectual. House’s only living support is you as he views the Tribes as beneath him and basically lets them be. His Robot army is a good idea, but how he uses it is just a more solid line between him and the people. A man playing with lives but never truly willing to risk his own. And all but one end has him face the consequences of such arrogance. And NCR feels too split between stay and leave with incompetent or dissonant leadership. Also don’t like how they deal with the Van Graff/Crimson Caravan conspiracy. You’d think they’d immediately arrest those responsible, and House wouldn’t care. NCR is probably the canon victory tho. Cause their flaws they feel more like the US Government conquering the Wild West and we know how that went. Still, like the idea of independent since all the choices you make in the dlcs feel more like lessons. First three dlcs do a good job mirroring the main factions with the 4th being you.
I think you're missing that Both societies are essentially pacifists but for different reasons Goodsprings is peaceful because of it's geography they have an ideology of live and let live this is because they're a caravan pit stop they're not completely self sufficent as Trudy and Chet rely on the Caravans for income. and if they didn't have trade its far more likely that Raiders would come for their water. Their bad ending has traders avoid them. The Boomers on the other hand have ideology of the right to peacefully bare arms made them actively __choose to__ define their geography The boomers chose out of the way Nellis not the fortified McCarran because they wanted to be out of the way they're Pacifist of the superior firepower and isolationism kind. They're even kinda implied to have nuclear weapons stockpiled somewhere and the bomber would be the ultimate tool of self defense if true and they are one of the two factions who like it if you set off nukes in the divide and it's because it cuts off at least one of their threats. Either way in any ending where they get the bomber people just leave them alone or trade. Think of good springs as passive peacekeepers unless the player intervenes and the boomers as _very_ active peacekeepers till the day they die.
Well said! I think your analysis is spot on. The Boomers are too strong and not worth fighting because they leave everyone alone outside their borders. Their approach at effective pacifism is their best quality, in my opinion.
8:21 Here's the thing, in almost all endings besides, I think Legion endings and definitely in the "kill Boomer faction leaders", in almost all endings Boomers DO open up more to the world. Heck in game when you talk with named NPC boomers, it's clear they t r y to change. That's why I personally like Boomers over Mojave Brotherhood, funnily enough they have same situation and philosophy of being afraid of outside world, one bug difference is that Boomers do and WANT to change. They know they have problems because of their isolationism, the fact they can't deal with fcking ants shows that, or the fact they need solar panel parts or to bring them a flying aircraft when they can't leave. If Boomers start out as grey morality faction, they quickly evolve into a good faction in most end slides. While Mojave Brotherhood, at best, only opens up their patrols outside, it's not guaranteed that if you spare them in NCR or Independent endings that they won't betray either, heck in independent path they continue to pillage old tech from innocent people...
They start out xenophobic, assuming all people outside are wild savages. Once the courier makes it in and starts being a generally civilized and helpful person, they see that maybe not everyone in the wasteland is a jerk.
"FONV doesn't tell you what is good or evil" bro the game literally tells you whether what you did was good or evil in a little corner on the screen as soon as you do something. You can view how many "good" or "evil" points you built up through your choices.
Except most of the story faction quests DON'T change your karma (the game's attempt at measuring objective morality) at all but only your reputation (your relations with that specific faction) outside of a handful of situations. The karma system is horribly flawed but in this case it doesn't detract from the story.
@@benito1620 should also be said that the karma system does... presumably nothing? i still dont know if it actually has any mechanic tied to it, but its pretty clear it only exists because bethesda wanted it to
@@Helperbot-2000 I have only noticed its significent after you complete the main game and get the slideshow, but only for the faction you helped win the day
95% of writers think people who disagree with them are just dumb, so their idea of the "bad guy" is a cartoonishly flat caricature. New vegas is indeed special because all the factions make perfect sense from their own points of view, something Obsidian completely failed to do with Outer worlds. With modern politics, people keep making their own mental fairytales of the world and only surround themselves with things that confirm those views, screeching at things that threaten it. As a result, media writers subject to this illness can only make garbage and that's 95% of game makers.
Dude I said I was making a legion run and folks at my work called me a fascist, people are so dumb these days that they think fiction and reality are the same, I find it hilarious cause I do all the runs in any game, they liked it when I did the NCR run
It's probably just my point of view, but I can't help but see the legion as "the bad guys". Sure there are a lots of other "bad guys" but the legion takes the cake. Nearly everyone (in-game) seems to either hate it or just not like it. In my personal opinion obsidian could have made it so you could legitimately agree with the legion and not be seen as "bad" by nearly everyone that isn't in the legion.
@RayanfhoulaBR The thing is, there are people who look at the Legion (in game) and admire the effects of what the Legion does, safe roads for trading, prosperous towns, raiders and mercenaries won't fuck with them. But people dislike the Legion because of the methods used to reach those fruits, crucifixion, massacres, raiding or trapping of bodies all because they go against the perceived honorable tactics but in the end.....their people survive and their enemies don't.
@@duplicitouscanadian3073 thing is the NCR would, given enough time, achieve the exact same thing as them but without the evil methods. That's why it makes no sense to side with the legion unless you genuinely like fascism or are very shortsighted (talking from the perspective of the game characters obv, not about players who are roleplaying in a videogame). They could have made the legion a bit less cruel and clear cut, and it would have made them better imo.
And the reason there’s so much care put into the ncr is because they didn’t get everything fleshed out and just because something is considered widely cannon by a lot of people doesn’t mean it is there is no cannon ending you can speculate all you want but it doesn’t fully matter I mean more on the lines that something being widely said one way doesn’t inherently mean that it’s ture
The menutia can be broken down into but ultimately it's a good attempt at portraying many *many* different aspects of their environment. Don't like him but that guy who ruined GameTheory wrote once on how the world of Fallout doesn't have our understanding of politics and ethics because it's a different time with vastly different problems and scenarios. However, what the franchise does and particularly New Vegas, is show you the pros and cons of each and let *you* pick the outcome. Personally I say put Caesar straight up on the Authoritarian-Center because Rome wasn't without controlled economics. NCR is Center-Center maybe slightly right or left or up on the compass but it's the Liberal Democratic Order answer, House is Auth-Right Corporatocracy, Yes Man is your full [Insert Libertarian Answer].
Naw Caesar is entirely Authoritarian Right. My man’s literally a fascist. Like actually a fascist. Instead of using German iconography he goes back to the Romans, but ideologically both he and house are right wing. Everyone in this game is right wing actually, even the NCR, who aren’t a left wing government, they are a liberal one. In every way imaginable, everyone has shifted right due to the apocalypse, and guess what, ir sucks, hard. The closest thing to left wing politics this game gets is the anarchist ending, and even then the game ends right when you achieve it.
I feel most comfortable with the House ending personally I love the NCR as a faction but I'd never in good conscience side with them as they are in new vegas, I feel like if there was another west coast fallout, the NCR could fit the role as main antagonists in the same way the legion is in New Vegas, I think that'd be an interesting development for one of the best factions created in the fallout universe. NCR are flawed and have a rich history. I actually think House is the better choice for the Mojave tho. Edit: the politics is not even close to being the reason I love fallout new vegas, any rpg that legit gives me the choice to murder any npc is a good rpg. Nothing sucks more than "Delphine is unconscious" when I inevitably decide to do a psychopath run and can't stand someone thinking they could take me on
Of the three big factions fighting over the Mojave, the Legion has enough bad practices to be pushed back and the NCR needs a good kick to go home and clean up their act. House actually does stuff to improve the region, even if it's only out of self-interest. I could totally see the NCR fix themselves up and come back later under better circumstances, going into a friendly agreement with House. Just like how they have worked out the power distribution from the dam, they could make a defensive alliance without trying to conquer each other.
Good video, but I think there's a bit more bias on the part of the writing team towards smaller, self-sufficient communities than there is towards larger states. Sure, Goodsprings needed outside help to beat the Powder Gangers, but the Powder Gangers also wouldn't have been there if the NCRCF hadn't been set up to create a railroad, and they only broke out because the NCR couldn't properly staff the prison. In one of the arguments you can give Lanius to leave the West alone, the Courier states that most NCR towns are reliant on trade to survive and would starve if ever cut off from the greater merchant network. While this is likely due to legislation influenced by Brahmin Barons and trade companies like Crimson Caravans, it does feed into what I feel is the larger narrative of necessity. It is more efficient for large nations like the NCR to convince people that they are necessary than it is to actually be a positive force in the world. The NCR has made it so those living under its banner are incentivized to live by the will of the market. And while this generally leads to higher living standards within the NCR, it also makes breaking away exponentially harder as the NCR expands its influence and ingratiates itself more and more into the status quo of the world. This means the NCR just has to maintain a quality of life slightly better than that of the average tribal and make the idea of leaving more trouble than it's worth. It's why NCR citizens like Cass that are critical of the Republic still regularly fall back to the argument of "Well the NCR isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternative." The NCR's most reliable advantage lies not in what it is, but what it isn't. As long as entities like the Legion exist, the NCR will have no need to make substantial improvements to retain citizen support. It's why The Divide is one of the final tragic stories of this game, because it might have been the model community people needed to shake the illusion that they need to belong to a larger entity in order to thrive. The greater tragedy of New Vegas is that I think it's idea of a utopia is actually pretty singular, especially taking the Followers of the Apocalypse into consideration. As I see it, FNV believes that smaller, self-sufficient communities linked by trade and communication that openly share knowledge is the best path towards prosperity. I think the main character being a courier, the theoretical blood cell of this utopia, is in service of this idea. It's just that any effort towards that ideal is stifled by our inability to move beyond our distrust of others. We are expected to entrust our futures to systems of governance that are incapable of seeing the individual as anything beyond a statistic unless we use these same systems to amass wealth beyond necessity, usually through the exploitation of our fellow man. War Never Changes.
The NCR is designed in such a way that gameplay wise you'd be more inclined to side with them purely for the amount of content available to do, but I cannot bring myself to actually join them most of the time. If NCR characters didn't act like such bitches I might be more inclined to side with them. The common soldiers are cowards, the officers are stagnant, incompetent, or depressed, their economy is dependent on corrupt caravan companies and the closest thing they got as a faction boss (the general) is a massive asshole who isn't above petty jealousy to his own subordinates. And the bastards still have the gall to try to intimidate me despite being a fangless paper tiger. The coolest NCR adjacent character (Boone) is a guy that made the choice to leave them. I get that they were designed with a lot of problems for the player to solve but you would think they'd make this faction somewhat attractive to fight for. At least the legion actually gets shit done, they have infiltrators in NCR ranks, clandestine operations behind enemy lines, etc. The devs really put in a lot of modern liberal democracies' worst flaws into the NCR lore wise (political lobbying from interest groups, voting system with no term limits, foreign wars with no clear mission objective, and exploitation of the poorest members of society), and made the characters that represent such a faction SUCK. Frankly, I don't like babysitting a bunch of wastelander californians that can't deal with a bunch of drugged up fiends
I think the short comings of the NCR are particularly well written. You see how mundane, expedient decisions made by bureaucrats and military commanders have potentially terrible consequences. Like sending mercenaries to deal with the Marcus' Super Mutants, for example.
A militarized, colonialist democracy is _far, FAR_ from being "left". The game beats the colonialism message over the player's head, and if they haven't figured it out by the time they've met Cassandra Moore, they're a lost cause.
Part of why I think new Vegas's politics works so well is , all are viable options yet none are right. I myself support the NCR , even though I understand it's shortcomings, but the shortcomings are why they aren't the right option , only getting closest to the "right" option. Another note I gotta say is , there's the wild card option. The player can flip the chess board everyone's playing and say "screw your game we're playing candy land now ". Even in the real world wild cards are still on the table , if we don't like the way things go we can flip the mediforical board. It overall shows how we have the choice and can change it if we want to , ultimately making it sorta poetic.
The irony is the best option for the Mojave is a combination of the three factions strengths: The Legion: Economy and Military protection, safest lands in America according to in game reports, no raiders or abominations running rampant. Even speculated that they are annihilated completely in their territory. NCR: The Rights of its Citizens, more or less reflect modern day democratic republics. Has educated individuals and doesn’t shy away from technology. Mr House: His technological innovations and mindset. I would like to see his “Industrial sector” up and running like he promised. If this faction existed, then no doubt America would have been rebuilt in short amount of time.
The biggest compliment I can give to this video is that I have no idea what the author’s own political views are. Well done. We need more of that in today’s world.
@@unreliablenarratorz2772 I’m not saying it should be impossible to tell. I’m praising the creator of this for discussing the subject in a neutral way to the point that I could not tell what their own beliefs are from a casual watch. The problem I am pointing out is how much content is meant to tell you what to think rather than to inform you and allow you to draw your own conclusions. I’m sick of being propagandized and found this take refreshing.
@@FubukiShiromiya my brother in Christ, the video also propagandized to you. The author presented to you their subjective take on how to present politics in video games. There are valid critiques to why the way obsidian handled politics in new Vegas is actually not the best, you know. Nothing can be presented in a “neutral way”.
random but i disagree with the thumbnail, the ncr are a liberal capitalis society so theyd be right centre, whereas mr house would be more authoritarian as he himself says hes a autocrat
I like how the Legion is written to have a real ideology behind it. It's a refresher from the normal way of writing antagonist where the villain does the bad things and then is given a vauge reason for it as an afterthought. With the Legion, I can see a real person actually believing in Ceaser's ideas and vision for the future. The person in question should probably check their house for gas leaks but my opinion still stands.
Aww, missed opportunity to put all the factions in a position on the ol' four corners compass, as the thumbnail was suggesting. Still a cool video tho.
This is precisely what we don't see in game development anymore. Most games these days are shallow and preachy in one form or another, whether it be through the writing or even the character models themselves.
its stuff like this that reminds me how special NV realy is, tbh id gone off it a bit due to how twatish a vocal minority of the fanbase is and its realy nice to see an analysis that doesnt put other people down for liking other games in the franchise
That thumbnail gave me a heart attack. That's some clickbait stuff man. The NCR is not left wing. It's left wing only in so much as "it's not literally a despotic slavery dictatorship". Also, come to think of it. The Legion is much more center left authoritarian instead of far right authoritarian. Edit: the graphic clearly has economic right on the right side and economic left on the left side. Social left and right are no on the graph. Otherwise House would also be on the left since he isn't traditional either. Also house should be a lot more authoritarian since he literally admits to being a dictator.
Lol. Yeah it basically represents 'liberal democracy.' Vaguely representative government with minimal recognition of basic human rights - just enough to keep the plebs complacent while the Brahmin barons do their thing.
@@jimsmith8383 Being a democracy does not make a government left wing wtf. Reminder that left to right is total wealth redistribution to no wealth redistribution. Aside from some charity programs the NCR lets all the wealth fall in the hands of the brahmin barons. The NCR is basically the pre-war American government 2.0 It's center right.
@@jimsmith8383 Not necessarily, the NCR represents modern neoliberal capitalist countries, like the US, UK or most of Europe, which to many take the position of being left-wing simply by allowing some civil rights to working people. However, the NCR along with other modern neoliberal countries still oppresses its working classes, as we see in the sharecropper farms or freeside, and practices imperialism simply by attempting to control the Mojave or committing the Bitter Springs Massacre. So, in essence, it's more center right
I remember playing New Vegas whe nI was about 14 when it just came out. I Really liked it and just ran through the main campaign and did the NCR route since they were obviously the good guys and I liked to me the good guy. Same as Mass Effect, same as Fable etc. Then when I was like 20 I replayed it with all DLCs and I clicked the complexity of these system and there is no simple solution or something as stagiht forward to goodguys and badguys. The legion do what they think is best. They are not evil, they just have a different solution to fixing the world. New vegas is in my top 3 games of all time and I will always love it for what it taught me about the world.
I really wish New Vegas would have had more time to cook in the oven. There are several mods that expands on the Powder Gangers, and to me, they are definitely the more interesting of factions as they - just like the player - are only just now setting out to make something of themselves. There's something volatile about them that I like, and I don't just mean the dynamite.
@@codyvandal2860 Yeah there's a whole section of the map to the west that god cut, imagine the towns you could explore, characters you could meet and quests you could discover if New Vegas got at least 3 year of development. Sad what could have been.
I want to play New Vegas so bad. I really do. But I hate to say, it seems too outdated for me. I would love a remaster of this game to make it look more modern.
When all games wore "indie" not cheap but not expensive you could make a niche game and make a profit, now they are like movies to expensive to cater to a especific audience
Nuance makes New Vegas great. Modern games bungle politics because modern devs cannot resist the urge to sermonize & grandstand to their audience with witless caricatures of cartoonishly evil factions all but reskinned after a certain orange presdient
@jimcalhoun361 I don't even necessarily see it as lazy. The less devs rely on existing coding, the more resources they have to dedicate to world building. It's financially efficient to just say "the bad guys are basically Nazis"
I'd love to have faith in the NCR, but I usually side with House tbh. I myself am a heavy left leaning progressive, but at the same time, House is the only person in a seat of power and control whos ACTUALLY a new vegas local. In terms of "which super power is actually going to give a shit about the people of vegas" i think it might unironically be House. There's always the chance of him falling into dictatorship, but the huge issue is the logistical and economical position that NCR is in. Their crumbling, and letting the NCR have The Strip might literally be the "expanding too fast with too little money" lynch pin that causes the republic to crumble and fail, bringing the strip with them. I think there might be a better chance of the republic surviving if House maintains his own local power and creates a trade union and military alliance with the NCR. The republic provides the people, House provides the long-lost 20th century luxury of a "vacation". And from that, the two separate entities can generate wealth between themselves, and maybe actually achieve some of House's lofty goals of leaving the planet within a few hundred years.
I wish they had given the Followers of the Apocalypse a bigger role in an independent ending. A self sufficient anti-authoritarian Mojave has so much potential
Considering you can do all the NCR quests and help out if you're doing House, I would say you're right. The only annoying thing if you do that though is that Ulysses thinks you work for NCR. Says I carry the bear on my back. Well I can't BEAR to hear any more of his BULL shit 😂
House doesn't care about anyone outside the strip. And he doesn't have any practical power outside Strip either. so a civilian in Primm is lot safer under NCR than under House.
While understanding everyone's side I always choose the NCR. Sure, we can joke about taxes, their overextended military and corrupt nature but they are trying to do the best they can and it's showed throughout the Mojave and information about California. Like ever country in the real world it has it's bad side but unlike other factions in game, I've seen more good than bad. The NCR is far more than an opertunistic elite, a dying dictator and a blank vessel in which one controls. It is a body of people that always changes and replaces itself. Just like pre-war America and even the America we see today. Also their armor is kinda cool.
Yeah, pretty much. The Legion were slaving tyrants, House only wanted to save himself and the loyal few by leaving everyone else behind and the Yesman ending is basically deciding to leave the Mojave in the state of violent anarchy most of the wasteland exists in. The NCR is far from perfect, but they are the best hope to ensure the safety and prosperity to the Mojave.
You hit the nail on the head. I think what makes one of Fallout NV one of my favorite games is the fact that despite the writers having a very different political viewpoint from mine, nothing feels like a straw man “I’m the chad and you’re the soyjack” type writing. They kept the world of fallout it’s own separate entity and I think that kind of discipline is lacking from a lot of media these days. This game makes it easy to have (or absolutely not have) empathy for every settlement that you come across. As someone who has lived in several different places around the US, I think that level of thinking and seeing how “the other side lives” can bridge a lot of different people.
now that im look at it more. maybe ceasers legion bringing a firm order to the wasteland may actually be more beneficial in the long run. sure many would die, but if the legion manages to survive and take over they could eventually be a firm foundation for a future sociaty like the greeks and romans are to european culture
look at the foundation of the roman republic itself one of the first major acts of the city of rome was the abduction and rape of the sabbean women as the romulus's city lacked enough women to sustain itself if one posits that ends don't justify the means then we may as well throw away the entirety of western civilization for that act alone our laws languages philosophy were all spread by the civilization that emerged from a city of ruthless raiders
NCR isnt the favourite of the writers and it categorically does not place them as the "good option". They are a direct criticism of liberal democracies and bureaucracies, and what they mean for average people just trying to build their own communities. They're the most present faction in the game purely because they have the most room for nuanced and varied quests and plots. Also they're certainly not hard left leaning as your thumbnail would imply. Great video, just wanted to put out my small critiques and add to the discussion
NCR is literally the good decision compared to everything else. It's not even a lesser of all evils. The problems of the NCR are... corruption. In the nuclear wasteland. Wow. How terrible.
Ultimately tho the ‘left and right’ dichotomy is bullshit. The values aren’t black and white, or opposites, it’s trade offs. The political trichotomy is tradition, liberty and equality. You can’t get 1 without loosing the other 2. House would fit into freedom as he’s less controlling than the NCR, and Legion, acts in the way of contracts and so on. Ceasar would fit equality as they’re collectivists, anti property rights, a ‘greater good’ idea system and so on. NCR would be equality as they try and handle what everyone gets, who can do what and so on. Summary: “do you have a license for that?” “Are you smoking legal smokes?” And so on. It may have been a accidental point they went for in this- given apparently they had a 5th faction planned but never implemented.
@@MrKing-771 actually there was talk of a 5th ending in the files and we later find the joke ending, so it’s possible that the ‘5th’ was just the ‘we left the Mojave’
@@MrKing-771 the joke ending being ‘hey go to the Mojave outpost and leave’ was the planned joke ending but it was cut. Another joke ending is Yes man- given by his name pretty much
I see Caesar as one of the best characters to come out of Fallout. IMO all my favorite characters are pretty much from the Legion. Caesar reminds me so much of Colonel Kurtz from Heart of Darkness and part of me truly wants him to succeed because what he says about the NCR is true. Its going to corrupt what’s left of America by bringing it back to what led it to destruction. I think Caesar represents a truth about human history that we are brutal if our environment is. He’s what’s necessary for the apocalypse for tribal types of people who can’t integrate into the NCR. Remember the NCR is a parallel to the US Government and we see how they treat the khans and other tribals who won’t bow to them. Environment really does shape not only our political views but the way we live.
people say they hate politics in media but what they really hate is bad writing around politics.
A pro politics in game comment that doesn't strawman and brings up a good point? Thank you.
To be fair, when people say they hate p. in media, they mean far left gender and race ideas being implemented in. No videogame or movie is adopting far right points, and no one is complaining about the pentagon pushing Top Gun and stuff like that.
@@Klongu_Da_Bongu Oh those silly chinese, all flocking to the cinemas to watch that pesky Korean war movie where they win, imagine consuming propaganda haha! Btw who's coming to see Maverick after dinner? -Average american
@@fedyx1544 In America we can have both, its just that the self-hating guilt spree that Hollywood has been on isn't entertaining or intelligent. Its rather rare that something gets the nerve to cater to right-leaning audiences. I mean, the military looking cool in movies DOES resonate with military families, but every movie keeps making the military into villains.
Absolutely yes. Politics is probably the hardest topic to even comprehend, and still it's the topic people like to simplify the most. Typical writer would just simplify it to death and spice it up with his own agenda making it as hateful as it gets.
the virgin "I hate this faction for (x) ideological reasons"
vs.
the Chad "I did it for the funny"
The Happy Middle: "I like how they look!"
I love playing for the legion but I would never support them in real life.
A bit unrelated, but I love how political ideologies are handled in Disco Elysium where no matter what you pick, you will be up for deranged shenanigans no matter if you go ultraliberal, communist, fascist or moralist. The game makes fun at all of it.
Went Moralist for my first. Will probably go commie next playthrough.
As for FONV. Legion is fun. NCR boring. Safest bet however is the house. He is actually trying something different unlike NCR and Legion who are rehashing previous failed civilisations.
I don't trust Autocrats for obvious reasons, but Mr House genuinely seems to have Humanities best interest in mind. He could make it work.
@@Ozzianman House is quite literally trying to reproduce good'ol America. He was one of the "winners" of capitalism, so he has good reasons to believe it is a good system, even if he's on top of it. He is trying to reproduce the Fallout America, with its autocratic society and its flaws. But yeah, at least he's going somewhere, unlike the NCR, and I'm not even speaking about the legion (although they do have drip).
Honestly, i only sided with yes man bc i wanted NV. It sounded cool to OWN new vegas.
It's not only not a secret that the Devs used Arcade and Veronica to espouse their own opinions, it's also not true at all lmao. The companion characters were written by different people with differing views on both fallout AND the real world. But more importantly, by competent writers who established personalities to those characters and used those personalities as a reference for their views.
Yeah that’s the current thing I see wrong with the vid as arcade and Veronica Are not the political views of the devs especialy with the fact of how differing they can be
Josh Sawyer has said in a forum post that Arcade’s views, idealism and personality are inspired from his own. However, he also stated that Arcade isn’t supposed to directly represent himself. It’s the same with Kreia from KOTOR II, while Chris Avellone wrote Kreia to largely reflect his own views on the Star Wars Universe (Namely the stupidly cyclical nature of it). Kreia isn’t designed to be his stand-in but a dialectic tool in which, Avellone himself even states that Kreia is ultimately wrong.
It’s literally just writers reflecting on the universe they were given, and using the characters they’ve written to propose interesting questions about said universe-nothing more. I think.
@@stanfromuzbekistan8282 Those are elements of really good writers. Its a serious shame that Chris Avellone left Obsidian.
Arcade 100% represents the average view of Obsidian writers (Veronica I'm not as sure I don't think her politics aren't as clear).There's no way you write a story as politically nuanced and complex as New Vegas without leaning pretty far left. Sure there may be a neo lib or two in there but that was a pretty leftist writing team. Someone who gravitates toward the right wouldn't have been capable of writing something in this particular style. I don't mean this in an offensive way but it's simply true
@@talismanbrunski2582 I get what you're trying to say, and I just don't agree that one thing means the other. Most writers (most artists) are either leftists or at least view themselves as progressives. But that doesn't mean a character's particular personality and outlook is a consensus of the writers' views. Arcade wants the NCR and the Legion out. Most people want the Legion out for obvious reasons, and Arcade wants the NCR out for personal reasons and not for any conviction that the NCR is too imperialistic (IIRC). Not to mention each character was written by a single writer with little interference. Arcade even more so since he was written by the director.
I think that the Republic of Dave is the best for the wasteland
Bow before Dave.
As a Dave myself, I wholeheartedly agree with this
As Dave, I agree with this message
Dave
I think we should give Gary a shot and see what a larger Gary society would be like
The Boomer "republican" line is because Boone is your companion. It won't be said if anyone else is your companion.
BASED
"gun nuts"
Ahh yes. The "irrational addiction and fear" of wanting a tank round based arm cannon.. for 6m tall bears
I wish the Followers of the Apocalypse weren’t so sidelined in the independent ending. With all the resources the courier can accumulate they could’ve supported not only New Vegas in its journey to self sufficiency but the entire Mojave
I would have really enjoyed a Followers ending.
real!!! the followers deserve much more attention, apparently theres a glitch in the independant ending where they will fail no matter what. oh well, thats what happens when a dev team gets forced too cut corners too get too the deadline (fuckin bethesda..)
fuck em, they dont align with my power armor power fantasy
So real
That would be an obviously good ending. And that was not intended. Everything in reality is a grey scale.
You have to decide between a douche and a turd sandwich.
And all the while underline that it is important to support charity.
Another thing is how the developers let female characters experience misogyny within the Mojave. From guys on the strip catcalling you pussycat and babydoll, to the Legion talking about how inferior you are as a woman and how they're going to rape you. It shows such a level of consideration and intelligence on the developers part. It makes the world feel much more real and dangerous to be a woman in a post apocalyptic setting
Muh Soggy Knees. Boohoo
Kunt Calling
It also shows how women were treated in the 50s. Which works quite well considering how the franchise goes screw the 50s.
Shit the Legion is WILD. Like damn. They treat women like it’s hundreds of years ago man…like wow. First time I played it I was like “sheee-ittt!”
@@reganbeazley5810 women were definitely not enslaved and treated as breeding cattle alone in the 1950s lmao, come on now man. Be realistic
@@regalcartoon3952 pretty sure they treat them worse that women in the '20s, considering they are based off the beginning of the first millennia of the Christian Era Roman Empire
My loyalty is to the Kings, everyone else is cringe
W
W the Kings
Monarchist…
Wait…
You ain’t nothin’ but a hound dog.
Followers are good too
Yeah I feel like both freeside factions are the best
The powder gangers absolutely do not show that goodsprings needs outside help. In fact, if you cause a fight between them and do nothing, goodsprings wins, and a fight probably wouldn't even have happened without the courier's interference
You could still argue that it shows Goodsprings's precarious situation. That's a breakaway subfaction of what is arguably the least ideologically driven and least well organized faction in the Mojave (just basically a bunch of guys thrown together by a situation). And those guys are what this place considers a threat? In other words, knocking back the dregs of the local opportunists is the kind of boast that might be just as likely to invite conquest as to scare it off. Anyone bigger would roll right through.
That is probably for gameplay reasons since the player will probably side with Goodsprings. It should also be noted that multiple residents die regardless so it still shows that the are in danger
There would absolutely be a fight without the couriers interference. Just look at primm. These guys aren't looking to just stay holed up in their prison, they're looking to pillage nearby towns.
also don't forget the powder gangers are only there cause the NCR brought them there
bruh no
Fallout 1 2 and NV feel like they were made by vault city people. A mix of different people ideas and views.
They keep to the theme of morally greys vs black and white good and bad.
No matter who you choose the world of fallout is messed up. So no matter which background choices you choose it won't matter. The divide big Mt and the legion P much mess up any progress no matter who you choose to help or kill off.
Also Legion and other areas got cut because 18 months. NCR were the first ones made and everyone else came after. Legion got sadly the short end of the stick.
there is an area on the legion side of the river you can get to with TCL that has like 100 deathclaws just hanging around for absolutely no reason.
@@TiocfaidhArLa34you can walk there without TCL, it's called the deathclaw promontory. It has a bunch of deathclaws to prevent you from swimming there immediately to grab the Remnant's Power Armor (The only piece of Enclave armor you can get without play For Auld Lang Syne)
OBS: You can only get the armor there. If i recall correctly the helmet is in a cazador cave near jacobstown
@@shell2791 how the hell do you walk there? the whole river is surrounded by cliffs!
@@TiocfaidhArLa34 there is a little hill you can climb without any rocks, it's very narrow so if you look from far away or from a certain point it looks like there's nothing there. Same happens with Cerulean Robotics, took me 3 playthroughs back in 2012 to notice that there was a passage next to the train station in Freeside
As with any good form of education, storytelling, and choice, it presents you with choices that show you how to think, but not what to think. You are given complicated scenarios that make you consider the consequences, context, and reasoning and you are forced to draw a conclusion. Fallout New Vegas is a Grade A example of how a western RPG should handle choices, consequences, and beliefs.
Great video and I agree, Obsidian at the time were so brilliant at writing a story. The legion utterly horrified me when I first played the game, but Caesar was not some one dimensional baddie, nor was he portrayed as 'cool' when you got to know him. Most writers, more so in games; would go with one of those two. Also FONV didn't have any of those 'morally good' but unlikeable characters you are expected to side with, [despite their actions giving you ample reason to hate them]; as has been a Bethesda hallmark post TES Oblivion.
Lol, the legion horrified you. The legion was so badass to me. “Degenerates like you belong on a cross” absolutely based.
@@nicklang6925 look out everyone, we've got a badass on our hands
the details i like about Caesar is that hes portrayed as an intellectual fraud.
he oh so confidently quotes or references philosophy and latin while frequently mispronouncing or flat out misunderstanding the works. and he gets away with it because hes put himself in a position where the 99% people around him dont know better, and the ones that do wont say anything on account of not wanting to be eaten by dogs.
i like it, its a realistic take on that type of character and ideology, its all a hollow facade
@@therideneverends1697 I mean his whole interpretation of roman society is wrong. Roman society was known for incorporating the gods and the people it conquered, and while they obv wouldn't be considered a "tolerant" state by modern standards as you still had to conform to the "roman way", they were rarely genocidal, I doubt they could be considered totalitarian in a modern sense, and most importantly every single one of their contemporary nations was (edit:also) nationalist and imperialist.
@@fedyx1544 Good point! Roman history is not my normal area of study so that slipped by me
i like that nv doesen't cater to any political leaning and lets you help or shit on everyone equally
this is like catastrophically dramatically untrue lol the game is very very explicitly anticapitalist
"anti-capitalist"
Game 24/7: "BOEHHH, EARN YA KEEEP AN CAPS"
I very much disagree with the idea that the NCR are the favourites of the writers and definitely nothing is canon unless stated otherwise.
Independent seems like the most likely candidate for a favourite given the themes of the DLC in particular with moving on from the past and the systems of the Old World to try something new, but since I believe Chris Avellone was mostly responsible for those it might only reflect his view.
Josh Sawyer is pretty open about being left-wing and actually went on a podcast made up of Anarchists, Socialists and Communists so I think Independent is probably the closest fit for him too.
John Gonzales was the lead writer on NV itself, but I can’t really say I know much about his personal politics.
the followers of the apocalypse were going to be a major faction but then got cut, they are mainly made up of anarchists
NCR still got the most attention and screen time. Everything revolves around them.
@@nathanlevesque7812 But that's because they are the biggest presence in the Mojave. It's only natural they have the most attention if the Mojave barring NV is their territory.
@@nathanlevesque7812 To add on to what João said, the Legion as the only other big faction was intended to get more, but Obsidian never had the time.
I imagine that as developers and designers they had to make executive decisions for what to prioritise and they would probably imagine that most people would end up siding with the NCR as the most visibly "good" faction. So, the Legion got shafted a bit.
House and Independence are much smaller, and the latter especially is more of a path where you get free reign over what you do with each faction and how to deal with them, meaning there is less for other characters to get involved with.
Obviously the development team is made up of all sorts of people, but I think the theme of the DLC speaks for itself when it comes to major endorsement for a faction choice.
All of that being said, I do think Obsidian games, like this and the Pillars games and Tyranny, offer a lot of really complex choice for the factions and you can make a good argument for all of them, for the most part. The Devs never outright pick favourites by making one option better than the rest, but different shades. The DLC is really the only area where I would say a bit of conscious bias is shown, as opposed to the time constraints of development like with the NCR.
Sorry for the long rant...
@@nathanlevesque7812 70+% of the map is NCR controlled Territory or surrounded by it (Vegas) so it makes sense you see more NCR than other factions. House only runs Vegas. Legion territory originally had more content planned, but they ran out of time.
I just love how in depth this game has in replayability.
Try doing a Legion playthrough. More enjoyable than I expected.
Me:who did that but fucking got joshua mad:I hate my life
@@somehowimstillhere God I hate zoomers so much, it's unreal. Type like a human being.
I just finished one last night and I think it might be the most fun quest path, but maybe I'm biased because I'm tired of stopping President Kimbell's assassination.
@@utuberz123456789 my turn to cause it
@@utuberz123456789 It's more fun to be the one JFKing Kimball than to be one of the Secret Service tying to protect Kimball
The Kings are obviously the coolest, swingest, and rock n rolling ballers of the wastelands.
That thumbnail. It makes Yes Man look so intimidating just by him being The Whole Fucking Chart.
The independent route of New Vegas really sealed the greatness of this game. The option is not there as a moral nor political option, as it was shown in the ending slides that it was a short-sighted decision that is ultimately bad for the strip, rather an opportunistic one. From our introduction to Benny, his plan, to killing him and meeting Yes Man, we were given a platform where we don't have to care about the bigger picture. Video games often skipped this route because opportunitic behaviors are seen as a greater evil in contemporary arts. Corporations are evil, corruption is the greatest sin, crime of opportunity is worse than crime of passion, and literary arts are escape from the bleak dystopian world. In the world of literary arts where heroism is praised and selfishness is shunned, New Vegas gives you the option to tell the story of someone whose value is tied to what they can achieve for themselves, instead of in relation to the world around
Key word being "short term." The only bad thing I can think of for the Independent Ending is how the Followers of the Apocalypse go through crunch. I can solve that easily by delivering Auto-Docs from the Big Empty, which are capable of performing surgeries that are light-years ahead of what's realistically feasible in the Wastelands. If New Vegas really empowers the player to solve problems, then I don't see why Independent Vegas can't also be a good long-term thing. The only real limit is the player's imagination.
but imagine a world like this
@@ethicalapemen3686 Plus the Anarchy is understandable within that short term, your not the Legion, or NCR capable enforcing Martial Law in the aftermath of House going out the window, and House ending is just more of the same for the people of the Strip while Independence is where it needs to be hammered in that the Securitrons are just as if not more effective then before and that will take time.
It's not shortsighted or bad for the strip. People are just bad at reading.
The problem is, it doesn't matter if you're character has 10 Intelligence, 10 Luck, maxed good karma, 100 speech, 100 medicine, 100 science and high barter, high survival and the good natured perk. You STILL get that ending and I think that's bullshit. What? Mr. House can damn near predict the future because he has 10/10 in luck (implied in-game to be a stat that describes your characters ability to calculate probability) but my 10 Int and 10 Luck character can't? I call bullshit.
"It might be a hard pill to swallow, but the fact is that political opinion has more to do with their surrounding environment than their morality or intelligence"
Do people really find that hard to believe?
Kinda, though it's closer to "Why can't/don't those people over there believe what I believe? They must be evil or stupid."
Conservatives.
But then how can individuals from the same environment develop vastly different world views? Even if you consider the environment as a significant factor in shaping political beliefs (which I agree to a certain extent), it's undeniable that personal moral codes and intelligence also play crucial roles in how they interpret their surroundings and form judgments based on their experiences.
@@pluntchgunster6156 i am not trying to both sides this, while yes a TON of conservatives believe that, all of them in fact (dont deny it) ive seen a lot of liberals think that conservatives are inherently evil because they believe theyre intentionally being reactionary
the thing about conservativism is their leaders intentionally pander to the people outside the city, this can be seen by them spreading lies about new york, saying that it was “burned to the ground.” there was a tweet by some random woman saying that “young men are inherently evil and thats why they fall to the far right” when that aint the case
now, im a followers of the apocalyse flavor of anarchist but nuance is still important
Yes.. the evil conservatives that are the backbone of infrastructure like farmers or builders.
If you don't like em you don't like em, don't deny the fact that you can enjoy luxury cause of these guys toiling away 24/7 like a slave
>"given that they mercilessly kill innocent civilians"
>shows crucified powder gangers
those guys aren't innocent, nor was Nipton.
Was thinking the exact same thing when that was playing lmao
I mean we dont get to meet any nipton residents as their all dead when we show up. The legion killed them because they tried to stay neutral and profit from NCR, powder gangers and legion troops, only choosing a side when forced to, breaking their neutrality in the process.
Another thing in Fallout New Vegas that I realized recently is the meaning of choosing a faction. You choose not just the goverment that you will support. You also accept the choice of how you will build the future, what you consider necessary for the future of the Mojave Wasteland and civilization in general. This is a choice not only of politics, but also of movement in life. Although it's probably obvious and everything was clear to everyone except me.
You can try to grab onto something that had value before, try to use it somehow in a changed world, as the NCR does. They are trying to recreate pre-war America, to revive ideals that once made sense. At the same time, they are not just blindly trying to repeat the past, but are forced to adapt to the realities of the present days, problems and conflicts.
You may decide that the NCR, on the contrary, is only following the same footsteps as pre-war America, which means it will fall in the same way. So it would be logical to start from the very beginning, to build a civilization from scratch. Caesar's Legion is like natural disaster sweeping away everything in its path, absorbing the weak, trying to move away from technologies of the old world. Caesar wants to start all over again, which means this process will be tough and merciless.
What was, is gone, we need to move on - you can say. Then Mr. House's ideas will suit your preferences. His ideas aim straight to the stars. To leave the tragedies of the past in the past, instead, by all means to achieve a new order, which will allow to achieve heights, which NCR with their task to recreate America and, moreover, the Legion will take decades, if not centuries.
Or you don't like or simply don't want to choose between these ideas. You are already satisfied with the state of the wastelands, in which you could contribute your own correctives. Independent Vegas is your choice of a rebel and an anarchist.
In case if you don't want to change anything at all, you are satisfied with the way life was arranged once upon a time, but you just buried your head in the ground and pretend that everything is fine, no matter how bad the situation around you is, then you are a member of Brotherhood of Steel. And it is them who in most of scenarios of playthrough are doomed.
Not sure how much of a rebel or anarchist i t makes you when you're the one controlling things around.
@@SenhorAlien rebel and anarchist part is that you choosing to go against not one, not two, but every major faction that is building society of some sort
I like the NCR. While I don't agree with them on all the things they are doing in the Mojave. They are the most well-intended faction.
The only road Legion is going down is straight to hell. While they do modal them self's off of the Roman Empire, once Ceaser dies, they'll have a never-ending Civil War that will tear them apart.
Mr. House is indeed a good man, but far to autocratic for my liking. He only thinks of the future and has little if no concern of the people's well-being in New Vegas. (Look at freeside)
Yes Man's ending seems like a good decision at first, but when you think about it, the courier isn't one for setting down anywhere for too long. New Vegas would just revert to a simi-Democratic system anyway as the courier would set up some governing committee to simi-organize New Vegas. Once the courier gets bored or moves on, it's grained that New Vegas would fall into total anarchy and quit possibly get annexed by the NCR or a Legion spinner faction, or just become a grave yard of well intends and soldiers.
To be honest, I view siding with the Legion as the path to rebuild civilization. It's the natural progression of humanity. Remember these are backwards tribals who had barely any system of government that were united into a juggernaut. This is the natural progression of humanity. It will take centuries but eventually, the world will return to it's pre war glory and democracy will rise again
I find it funny how the NCR, originating from a tiny tribal town constantly threatened by raiders, did a better job of recreating the US than the actual Enclave, who are literally just military remnants of the original US. But it makes sense. America was founded by people who wanted new lives. You can't recreate America by trying to extend the life of a dead empire.
I saw that your videos disappeared from Niche Gamer's channel the other day. I'm really glad you uploaded them here too, because they're excellent. Seriously, you deserve more subscribers. Your videos on Epic Games Store and Steam Deck are great takes on their source material and pointed out things I'd never seen others mention (e.g. only 7% of EGS users who redeem the giveaways actually buy something). Keep it up dude, I look forward to seeing what you'll make in the future!
do you know why they disappeared?
@@sciencemile I'd assume they had a contract and it simply expired. Either way, all of his videos from Niche Gamer are also available here, so nothing's lost.
NCR was written first. If the devs got time, they would make way more Legion quests and other things too.
Another UA-camr addressed politics in video games thusly: "The surest defense against accusations of tokenism in storytelling is artistic sincerity." That always stuck with me.
What does that mean really?
@@JimiCanRead it means that representing a group honestly and sincerely will defend against accusations of straw manning.
@@JimiCanRead Word salad. It means "I am a professional quote maker."
@@TiocfaidhArLa34 You can honestly and sincerely represent a group as a strawman if you are out of touch and believe those groups are actually like that. No one is more out of touch than the Hollywood writers that constantly strawman every group, it doesn't matter how "artistically sincere" they are if they pity or hate everything they write about.
The only good thing to come out of the Queen Cleopatra fiasco is people finally realizing how dumb that all is. I’m sure that was done for “artistic sincerity”.
This channel has some great videos! Sad to see it hasn't uploaded in a year.
Thank god! Someone acknowledged the conflict between urban and rural. Our lives are not the same, so we don't want the same policies. My experience in the mountains isn't a fellas in New York city
that being said theres somethings you guys just simply should not be allowed to do
slavery for example
@@therideneverends1697 If only we could come to an agreement on that issue. If only it was a settled issue that no one wants back. If only we could stop bringing up obscene politics for the sole purpose of pinning it onto political opposition to fearmonger. The fact that you said "you guys" implies you think we (or anyone) actually wants that back. Do you honestly think you need to remind the party who freed the slaves about slavery? As if city-rats aren't slaves to the government right now, and you living on campus makes you my savior against my neighbors who want me in chains. I can handle myself as long as you don't take my guns away. Hipster gutter garbage.
If you wanna play that game, I could bring up how Democrat politicians have always acted entitled to the black vote since the war. Or how the whole "parties switched" narrative doesn't account for new generations rebuking their parent's beliefs in the south, as if voters are just immortal and unchanging in beliefs. Amazing how slavery keeps being dug up as an issue by the city folk who would benefit the absolute most by making black people fear for their lives. You want us in your wartorn dystopia cities so you can keep telling us that THEY want us in chains, not you? Oh, and how defending ourselves is immoral and we should just trust the police who hate us so much?
@@therideneverends1697 yea thats bad for the economy
Heck, my experience in Upstate and Western NY is also nothing like the experience of a fella in NYC.
NYC is so different from the rest of the state that it has its own set of laws!
@@cancerbucket2245 And the slavery the Legion shows in New Vegas is more like rural american slavery than urban roman slavery.
A slave in Rome was still property, but they had some protection. You couldn't just kill someone's slave. You couldn't just enslave anyone. And especially in urban Rome it was the slaves that did the housework and tought the kids. A slave was not just someone you own, but often a friend. Not uncommon that after a masters death the slave was freed and inherited with the former masters property. Slaves could even buy themselves free.
In the rural parts that was obviously different, but at least in the cities they had a somewhat comfortable life.
Slavery is still a bad thing, though.
Your channel deserves way more views. You are filling a niche for many of your topics and the videos are very well made.
Political beliefs derived from material conditions. The essential truth of dialectical materialism
New Vegas is one of those games that causes you to point out things in yourself. Your beliefs, your motivations, etc. An example of this is that sometimes I get pretty xenophobic when dealing with the White Legs, Fiends, and Mutants but that is because I died to this raves multiple times during my playthrough so I get naturally vengeful.
@Feras Reverie Don't worry, Cook Cook is burning in fallout hell. It's like the normal one, only it plays Johnny Guitar on loop.
@Feras Reverieme quicksaving: it didn't happen but if it did they'd deserve it
it's not a war crime if they deserved it and/or you loved doing it
I'm not racist but...
That's even the same reasoning as the Boomers, funny enough
That part about non-city based peoples tending to favour decentralised governance seems to be a bit of an Americanism. The Nice Liberal versus Mean Liberal dichotomy is essentially unique to the States because of the way it's politics is railroaded.
Well the game does take place in America so it checks out
@rexpugh2892 and one of the factions is basically América 2.0
But there's literally thousands of years of historical and archeological data indicating that people in the hinterlands of cities, globally throughout all of human history, tend to push for a more decentralized and less hierarchical bottom up approach to politics.
Usually because cities start enacting taxes and demands on rural farmers without any input from them and with little benefit to the farmers. So of course they want local autonomy.
The U.S. is actually very unusual in that a lot of rural people have started pushing for a stronger and more hierarchical central government since the 1980s.
The Left versus Right tribalism in the USA is crazy to me. As an outsider it is OBVIOUS that such extremeism is being used on their population as a tool to divide and conquer and that most politicians are just controlled opposition. It seems that at least 90% of major politicians are in the pocket of BigPharma and the FDA as well and it's crazy how many additives, dyes, GMO's, sugars, sodium, etc is in American food.
It's as if the corporations running the USA want their population to be just sickly enough to have a slow and prolonged death so they can sell them pills and have them go through surgeries as a form of profit.
Then you had the Covid "pandemic" where like 70% of the global population signed up to become guinea pigs for experimental shots with no ability to sue for harms experienced.
What do I know though, I am a centralist Ugandan who believes in common sense and following your intuition instead of going with whatever you are being told by elites, politicians, or any other entity. As humans we possess sentience and the personal agency and freedom of thought such allows by extension.
The fact that some humans resign themselves to just doing as they are told makes them no more aware than dogs following their owners commands.
Sorry about the rant, I just find it strange how most people can't see the forest for the trees or just don't even care to bother.
Thats not an Americanism.
Yeah much like Star Control 2, you don't always agree with the line of reasoning someone takes, but you can understand where they're coming from and how they got there. The Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah for example are genocidal but only because they've faced so many adversities since discovering other sentient life that you start to understand why they think the Eternal Doctrine is the answer.
That's why I love new vegas, even under scrutiny, the overall decisions of the major factions, their opinions of eachother and their wants for the future make sense. It doesn't matter that the decisions weren't "the best of all time for everyone" what matters is its what the people in those positions would do.
I wonder how many people thought a faction was too authoritatian so when they went the solo route they decided to completely wipe them out for not being open minded enough
Personally I go solo cause how incompetent they all are.
The Legion literally relies on people like Caesar being in control, but it’s heavily implied Lanius will take over by force once he dies. They have a emphasis on melee tactics cause ‘honor and humanity’ but happily kill or enslave innocents, being little more than raiders that have a strict no drugs robots or cannibalism ground rule. All this Caesar allows while trying to pretend he’s a civilized intellectual.
House’s only living support is you as he views the Tribes as beneath him and basically lets them be. His Robot army is a good idea, but how he uses it is just a more solid line between him and the people. A man playing with lives but never truly willing to risk his own. And all but one end has him face the consequences of such arrogance.
And NCR feels too split between stay and leave with incompetent or dissonant leadership. Also don’t like how they deal with the Van Graff/Crimson Caravan conspiracy. You’d think they’d immediately arrest those responsible, and House wouldn’t care.
NCR is probably the canon victory tho. Cause their flaws they feel more like the US Government conquering the Wild West and we know how that went.
Still, like the idea of independent since all the choices you make in the dlcs feel more like lessons. First three dlcs do a good job mirroring the main factions with the 4th being you.
I think you're missing that Both societies are essentially pacifists but for different reasons Goodsprings is peaceful because of it's geography they have an ideology of live and let live this is because they're a caravan pit stop they're not completely self sufficent as Trudy and Chet rely on the Caravans for income. and if they didn't have trade its far more likely that Raiders would come for their water. Their bad ending has traders avoid them.
The Boomers on the other hand have ideology of the right to peacefully bare arms made them actively __choose to__ define their geography The boomers chose out of the way Nellis not the fortified McCarran because they wanted to be out of the way they're Pacifist of the superior firepower and isolationism kind. They're even kinda implied to have nuclear weapons stockpiled somewhere and the bomber would be the ultimate tool of self defense if true and they are one of the two factions who like it if you set off nukes in the divide and it's because it cuts off at least one of their threats. Either way in any ending where they get the bomber people just leave them alone or trade.
Think of good springs as passive peacekeepers unless the player intervenes and the boomers as _very_ active peacekeepers till the day they die.
this is very true, that said obv the boomers are doomed in the long run, as was every single isolationist society before them
Well said! I think your analysis is spot on. The Boomers are too strong and not worth fighting because they leave everyone alone outside their borders. Their approach at effective pacifism is their best quality, in my opinion.
@@alexgardener46 Pretty much. They want to be left alone and they will enforce it if necessary.
4:51 "innocent civilians" *shows crucified violent ex-convicts that broke out of prison*
yeah, and the only surviving dude is a dick even when u give them med X
Virgin Courier: Oh boy I can’t wait to find Benny
Chad Mailman: Mr house tastes like 400 year old beef Jerky 😈
8:21 Here's the thing, in almost all endings besides, I think Legion endings and definitely in the "kill Boomer faction leaders", in almost all endings Boomers DO open up more to the world. Heck in game when you talk with named NPC boomers, it's clear they t r y to change. That's why I personally like Boomers over Mojave Brotherhood, funnily enough they have same situation and philosophy of being afraid of outside world, one bug difference is that Boomers do and WANT to change. They know they have problems because of their isolationism, the fact they can't deal with fcking ants shows that, or the fact they need solar panel parts or to bring them a flying aircraft when they can't leave.
If Boomers start out as grey morality faction, they quickly evolve into a good faction in most end slides. While Mojave Brotherhood, at best, only opens up their patrols outside, it's not guaranteed that if you spare them in NCR or Independent endings that they won't betray either, heck in independent path they continue to pillage old tech from innocent people...
They start out xenophobic, assuming all people outside are wild savages.
Once the courier makes it in and starts being a generally civilized and helpful person, they see that maybe not everyone in the wasteland is a jerk.
Most are jerks in such a world tho. Its good they question everyone
"FONV doesn't tell you what is good or evil"
bro the game literally tells you whether what you did was good or evil in a little corner on the screen as soon as you do something. You can view how many "good" or "evil" points you built up through your choices.
Except most of the story faction quests DON'T change your karma (the game's attempt at measuring objective morality) at all but only your reputation (your relations with that specific faction) outside of a handful of situations.
The karma system is horribly flawed but in this case it doesn't detract from the story.
@@benito1620 should also be said that the karma system does... presumably nothing? i still dont know if it actually has any mechanic tied to it, but its pretty clear it only exists because bethesda wanted it to
@@Helperbot-2000 i think i got a karma dialogue choice once. dont remember where though.
@@berto17 hmm interesting
@@Helperbot-2000 I have only noticed its significent after you complete the main game and get the slideshow, but only for the faction you helped win the day
95% of writers think people who disagree with them are just dumb, so their idea of the "bad guy" is a cartoonishly flat caricature.
New vegas is indeed special because all the factions make perfect sense from their own points of view, something Obsidian completely failed to do with Outer worlds.
With modern politics, people keep making their own mental fairytales of the world and only surround themselves with things that confirm those views, screeching at things that threaten it. As a result, media writers subject to this illness can only make garbage and that's 95% of game makers.
People in general or writers?
Dude I said I was making a legion run and folks at my work called me a fascist, people are so dumb these days that they think fiction and reality are the same, I find it hilarious cause I do all the runs in any game, they liked it when I did the NCR run
It's probably just my point of view, but I can't help but see the legion as "the bad guys". Sure there are a lots of other "bad guys" but the legion takes the cake. Nearly everyone (in-game) seems to either hate it or just not like it.
In my personal opinion obsidian could have made it so you could legitimately agree with the legion and not be seen as "bad" by nearly everyone that isn't in the legion.
@RayanfhoulaBR The thing is, there are people who look at the Legion (in game) and admire the effects of what the Legion does, safe roads for trading, prosperous towns, raiders and mercenaries won't fuck with them. But people dislike the Legion because of the methods used to reach those fruits, crucifixion, massacres, raiding or trapping of bodies all because they go against the perceived honorable tactics but in the end.....their people survive and their enemies don't.
@@duplicitouscanadian3073 thing is the NCR would, given enough time, achieve the exact same thing as them but without the evil methods. That's why it makes no sense to side with the legion unless you genuinely like fascism or are very shortsighted (talking from the perspective of the game characters obv, not about players who are roleplaying in a videogame). They could have made the legion a bit less cruel and clear cut, and it would have made them better imo.
A short New Vegas Lore (/appreciation) video? A true gem.
This is a really good video. I really love the philosophical exploration in F:NV.
And the reason there’s so much care put into the ncr is because they didn’t get everything fleshed out and just because something is considered widely cannon by a lot of people doesn’t mean it is there is no cannon ending you can speculate all you want but it doesn’t fully matter I mean more on the lines that something being widely said one way doesn’t inherently mean that it’s ture
The menutia can be broken down into but ultimately it's a good attempt at portraying many *many* different aspects of their environment. Don't like him but that guy who ruined GameTheory wrote once on how the world of Fallout doesn't have our understanding of politics and ethics because it's a different time with vastly different problems and scenarios. However, what the franchise does and particularly New Vegas, is show you the pros and cons of each and let *you* pick the outcome.
Personally I say put Caesar straight up on the Authoritarian-Center because Rome wasn't without controlled economics. NCR is Center-Center maybe slightly right or left or up on the compass but it's the Liberal Democratic Order answer, House is Auth-Right Corporatocracy, Yes Man is your full [Insert Libertarian Answer].
Naw Caesar is entirely Authoritarian Right. My man’s literally a fascist. Like actually a fascist. Instead of using German iconography he goes back to the Romans, but ideologically both he and house are right wing. Everyone in this game is right wing actually, even the NCR, who aren’t a left wing government, they are a liberal one. In every way imaginable, everyone has shifted right due to the apocalypse, and guess what, ir sucks, hard. The closest thing to left wing politics this game gets is the anarchist ending, and even then the game ends right when you achieve it.
I wish the The Follower of The Apocalypse was a major faction.
They did it so well that fallout was referenced in my college government course textbooks.
I feel most comfortable with the House ending personally
I love the NCR as a faction but I'd never in good conscience side with them as they are in new vegas, I feel like if there was another west coast fallout, the NCR could fit the role as main antagonists in the same way the legion is in New Vegas, I think that'd be an interesting development for one of the best factions created in the fallout universe. NCR are flawed and have a rich history.
I actually think House is the better choice for the Mojave tho.
Edit: the politics is not even close to being the reason I love fallout new vegas, any rpg that legit gives me the choice to murder any npc is a good rpg. Nothing sucks more than "Delphine is unconscious" when I inevitably decide to do a psychopath run and can't stand someone thinking they could take me on
Of the three big factions fighting over the Mojave, the Legion has enough bad practices to be pushed back and the NCR needs a good kick to go home and clean up their act. House actually does stuff to improve the region, even if it's only out of self-interest.
I could totally see the NCR fix themselves up and come back later under better circumstances, going into a friendly agreement with House. Just like how they have worked out the power distribution from the dam, they could make a defensive alliance without trying to conquer each other.
I went with the House ending in my playthrough not for any political reasons but because the NCR was boring and the Legion was cartoonishly evil.
I love your content, when will you upload again?
Good video, but I think there's a bit more bias on the part of the writing team towards smaller, self-sufficient communities than there is towards larger states. Sure, Goodsprings needed outside help to beat the Powder Gangers, but the Powder Gangers also wouldn't have been there if the NCRCF hadn't been set up to create a railroad, and they only broke out because the NCR couldn't properly staff the prison. In one of the arguments you can give Lanius to leave the West alone, the Courier states that most NCR towns are reliant on trade to survive and would starve if ever cut off from the greater merchant network. While this is likely due to legislation influenced by Brahmin Barons and trade companies like Crimson Caravans, it does feed into what I feel is the larger narrative of necessity. It is more efficient for large nations like the NCR to convince people that they are necessary than it is to actually be a positive force in the world. The NCR has made it so those living under its banner are incentivized to live by the will of the market. And while this generally leads to higher living standards within the NCR, it also makes breaking away exponentially harder as the NCR expands its influence and ingratiates itself more and more into the status quo of the world. This means the NCR just has to maintain a quality of life slightly better than that of the average tribal and make the idea of leaving more trouble than it's worth.
It's why NCR citizens like Cass that are critical of the Republic still regularly fall back to the argument of "Well the NCR isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternative." The NCR's most reliable advantage lies not in what it is, but what it isn't. As long as entities like the Legion exist, the NCR will have no need to make substantial improvements to retain citizen support. It's why The Divide is one of the final tragic stories of this game, because it might have been the model community people needed to shake the illusion that they need to belong to a larger entity in order to thrive.
The greater tragedy of New Vegas is that I think it's idea of a utopia is actually pretty singular, especially taking the Followers of the Apocalypse into consideration. As I see it, FNV believes that smaller, self-sufficient communities linked by trade and communication that openly share knowledge is the best path towards prosperity. I think the main character being a courier, the theoretical blood cell of this utopia, is in service of this idea. It's just that any effort towards that ideal is stifled by our inability to move beyond our distrust of others. We are expected to entrust our futures to systems of governance that are incapable of seeing the individual as anything beyond a statistic unless we use these same systems to amass wealth beyond necessity, usually through the exploitation of our fellow man. War Never Changes.
3 factions? Yes Man and my nuclear warheads will say otherwise
The NCR is designed in such a way that gameplay wise you'd be more inclined to side with them purely for the amount of content available to do, but I cannot bring myself to actually join them most of the time. If NCR characters didn't act like such bitches I might be more inclined to side with them. The common soldiers are cowards, the officers are stagnant, incompetent, or depressed, their economy is dependent on corrupt caravan companies and the closest thing they got as a faction boss (the general) is a massive asshole who isn't above petty jealousy to his own subordinates. And the bastards still have the gall to try to intimidate me despite being a fangless paper tiger. The coolest NCR adjacent character (Boone) is a guy that made the choice to leave them. I get that they were designed with a lot of problems for the player to solve but you would think they'd make this faction somewhat attractive to fight for. At least the legion actually gets shit done, they have infiltrators in NCR ranks, clandestine operations behind enemy lines, etc.
The devs really put in a lot of modern liberal democracies' worst flaws into the NCR lore wise (political lobbying from interest groups, voting system with no term limits, foreign wars with no clear mission objective, and exploitation of the poorest members of society), and made the characters that represent such a faction SUCK. Frankly, I don't like babysitting a bunch of wastelander californians that can't deal with a bunch of drugged up fiends
come back plss
This was an intelligent, reasoned, and quite clever analysis...had one of my students presented this as a project, I would have been quite proud!
I think the short comings of the NCR are particularly well written. You see how mundane, expedient decisions made by bureaucrats and military commanders have potentially terrible consequences. Like sending mercenaries to deal with the Marcus' Super Mutants, for example.
mr house / NCR are my favourites, but the kings are a really interesting faction
A militarized, colonialist democracy is _far, FAR_ from being "left". The game beats the colonialism message over the player's head, and if they haven't figured it out by the time they've met Cassandra Moore, they're a lost cause.
Part of why I think new Vegas's politics works so well is , all are viable options yet none are right. I myself support the NCR , even though I understand it's shortcomings, but the shortcomings are why they aren't the right option , only getting closest to the "right" option.
Another note I gotta say is , there's the wild card option. The player can flip the chess board everyone's playing and say "screw your game we're playing candy land now ". Even in the real world wild cards are still on the table , if we don't like the way things go we can flip the mediforical board. It overall shows how we have the choice and can change it if we want to , ultimately making it sorta poetic.
The irony is the best option for the Mojave is a combination of the three factions strengths:
The Legion: Economy and Military protection, safest lands in America according to in game reports, no raiders or abominations running rampant. Even speculated that they are annihilated completely in their territory.
NCR: The Rights of its Citizens, more or less reflect modern day democratic republics. Has educated individuals and doesn’t shy away from technology.
Mr House: His technological innovations and mindset. I would like to see his “Industrial sector” up and running like he promised.
If this faction existed, then no doubt America would have been rebuilt in short amount of time.
Mate come back
Your videos are great
come back :(
hope you come back bro, just discovered you yesterday
Wish this guy came back
The biggest compliment I can give to this video is that I have no idea what the author’s own political views are. Well done. We need more of that in today’s world.
That’s impossible to do. If you read between the lines, you can figure out the political leaning of any dev team or artist and their creative work.
@@unreliablenarratorz2772 I’m not saying it should be impossible to tell. I’m praising the creator of this for discussing the subject in a neutral way to the point that I could not tell what their own beliefs are from a casual watch. The problem I am pointing out is how much content is meant to tell you what to think rather than to inform you and allow you to draw your own conclusions. I’m sick of being propagandized and found this take refreshing.
@@FubukiShiromiya my brother in Christ, the video also propagandized to you. The author presented to you their subjective take on how to present politics in video games. There are valid critiques to why the way obsidian handled politics in new Vegas is actually not the best, you know. Nothing can be presented in a “neutral way”.
random but i disagree with the thumbnail, the ncr are a liberal capitalis society so theyd be right centre, whereas mr house would be more authoritarian as he himself says hes a autocrat
What's the name of the music playing in the background at the start of the video? It sound very familiar
It's a piano cover of "Lone Star," which plays on Radio New Vegas from time to time
I like how the Legion is written to have a real ideology behind it. It's a refresher from the normal way of writing antagonist where the villain does the bad things and then is given a vauge reason for it as an afterthought. With the Legion, I can see a real person actually believing in Ceaser's ideas and vision for the future. The person in question should probably check their house for gas leaks but my opinion still stands.
Hey! My detector is fully functional because it beeps all the time 😤
I picked the faction with the coolest armor
Ave
I mean goodsprings wouldnt have a Problem with the Power gangers if the NCR didnt bring them in the area
Aww, missed opportunity to put all the factions in a position on the ol' four corners compass, as the thumbnail was suggesting. Still a cool video tho.
Whats the Piano in the Background of the intro?
"What the hell is politics? Is it edible?"
-My lesbian cannibal explosive build courrier with 1 INT who collects teddy bears
"factions? how good can I blow them up?"
- my psycho courier playthrough
What makes me a good Demowoman?
Followers of the apocalipse is the best faction ngl
They're pretty much the only "liberal" faction in the whole game.
They were the best faction in Fallout 1 too, right alongside the Gun Runners
Haven’t watched the vid yet but fallout handles politics by not picking a side and letting the players make their own judgements
This is precisely what we don't see in game development anymore. Most games these days are shallow and preachy in one form or another, whether it be through the writing or even the character models themselves.
comeback please:)
its stuff like this that reminds me how special NV realy is, tbh id gone off it a bit due to how twatish a vocal minority of the fanbase is and its realy nice to see an analysis that doesnt put other people down for liking other games in the franchise
Bro were did he go
Great video
That thumbnail gave me a heart attack. That's some clickbait stuff man. The NCR is not left wing. It's left wing only in so much as "it's not literally a despotic slavery dictatorship".
Also, come to think of it. The Legion is much more center left authoritarian instead of far right authoritarian.
Edit: the graphic clearly has economic right on the right side and economic left on the left side. Social left and right are no on the graph. Otherwise House would also be on the left since he isn't traditional either. Also house should be a lot more authoritarian since he literally admits to being a dictator.
Lol. Yeah it basically represents 'liberal democracy.' Vaguely representative government with minimal recognition of basic human rights - just enough to keep the plebs complacent while the Brahmin barons do their thing.
It let's women in the military, so it's egalitarian, and let's people vote their leaders in. A liberal democracy. Aka, left wing.
@@jimsmith8383
Being a democracy does not make a government left wing wtf.
Reminder that left to right is total wealth redistribution to no wealth redistribution. Aside from some charity programs the NCR lets all the wealth fall in the hands of the brahmin barons.
The NCR is basically the pre-war American government 2.0
It's center right.
@@jimsmith8383 hahaha vote
@@jimsmith8383 Not necessarily, the NCR represents modern neoliberal capitalist countries, like the US, UK or most of Europe, which to many take the position of being left-wing simply by allowing some civil rights to working people. However, the NCR along with other modern neoliberal countries still oppresses its working classes, as we see in the sharecropper farms or freeside, and practices imperialism simply by attempting to control the Mojave or committing the Bitter Springs Massacre. So, in essence, it's more center right
I disagreed with almost every single claim and argument you made lol. We could have one hell of a discussion over coffee
Penny for your thoughts?
Dope video
I remember playing New Vegas whe nI was about 14 when it just came out. I Really liked it and just ran through the main campaign and did the NCR route since they were obviously the good guys and I liked to me the good guy. Same as Mass Effect, same as Fable etc.
Then when I was like 20 I replayed it with all DLCs and I clicked the complexity of these system and there is no simple solution or something as stagiht forward to goodguys and badguys. The legion do what they think is best. They are not evil, they just have a different solution to fixing the world.
New vegas is in my top 3 games of all time and I will always love it for what it taught me about the world.
I really wish New Vegas would have had more time to cook in the oven. There are several mods that expands on the Powder Gangers, and to me, they are definitely the more interesting of factions as they - just like the player - are only just now setting out to make something of themselves. There's something volatile about them that I like, and I don't just mean the dynamite.
Imagine if it had three years of development instead of 18 months?
@@codyvandal2860 Yeah there's a whole section of the map to the west that god cut, imagine the towns you could explore, characters you could meet and quests you could discover if New Vegas got at least 3 year of development. Sad what could have been.
@@codyvandal2860they wouldn’t need 3 years. Fallout 3 took three years because of the creation of the engine
I want to play New Vegas so bad. I really do. But I hate to say, it seems too outdated for me. I would love a remaster of this game to make it look more modern.
mods
mods
Just play the game.
Thanks for the vid
When all games wore "indie" not cheap but not expensive you could make a niche game and make a profit, now they are like movies to expensive to cater to a especific audience
Nuance makes New Vegas great. Modern games bungle politics because modern devs cannot resist the urge to sermonize & grandstand to their audience with witless caricatures of cartoonishly evil factions all but reskinned after a certain orange presdient
It's not about 'sermonizing'. It's about the devs being lazy and using stereotypes/caricatures is easy. At least that's the way it seems to me
@jimcalhoun361 I don't even necessarily see it as lazy. The less devs rely on existing coding, the more resources they have to dedicate to world building. It's financially efficient to just say "the bad guys are basically Nazis"
And then when you try to complain and tell them this is bad writing, all they do is scream at you.
I'd love to have faith in the NCR, but I usually side with House tbh. I myself am a heavy left leaning progressive, but at the same time, House is the only person in a seat of power and control whos ACTUALLY a new vegas local. In terms of "which super power is actually going to give a shit about the people of vegas" i think it might unironically be House. There's always the chance of him falling into dictatorship, but the huge issue is the logistical and economical position that NCR is in. Their crumbling, and letting the NCR have The Strip might literally be the "expanding too fast with too little money" lynch pin that causes the republic to crumble and fail, bringing the strip with them.
I think there might be a better chance of the republic surviving if House maintains his own local power and creates a trade union and military alliance with the NCR. The republic provides the people, House provides the long-lost 20th century luxury of a "vacation". And from that, the two separate entities can generate wealth between themselves, and maybe actually achieve some of House's lofty goals of leaving the planet within a few hundred years.
I wish they had given the Followers of the Apocalypse a bigger role in an independent ending. A self sufficient anti-authoritarian Mojave has so much potential
Considering you can do all the NCR quests and help out if you're doing House, I would say you're right. The only annoying thing if you do that though is that Ulysses thinks you work for NCR. Says I carry the bear on my back.
Well I can't BEAR to hear any more of his BULL shit 😂
@@Klongu_Da_Bongu _"Well I can't BEAR to hear any more of his BULL shit"_
ok I'm totally stealing this line
House doesn't care about anyone outside the strip. And he doesn't have any practical power outside Strip either. so a civilian in Primm is lot safer under NCR than under House.
nice videos shazbot
"Serious art form" stopped video on sight
While understanding everyone's side I always choose the NCR. Sure, we can joke about taxes, their overextended military and corrupt nature but they are trying to do the best they can and it's showed throughout the Mojave and information about California. Like ever country in the real world it has it's bad side but unlike other factions in game, I've seen more good than bad. The NCR is far more than an opertunistic elite, a dying dictator and a blank vessel in which one controls. It is a body of people that always changes and replaces itself. Just like pre-war America and even the America we see today.
Also their armor is kinda cool.
Yeah, pretty much. The Legion were slaving tyrants, House only wanted to save himself and the loyal few by leaving everyone else behind and the Yesman ending is basically deciding to leave the Mojave in the state of violent anarchy most of the wasteland exists in. The NCR is far from perfect, but they are the best hope to ensure the safety and prosperity to the Mojave.
Didn't watch the video, but the NCR being far left might be the most comical and hopelessly American thing I've seen all day.
We go around the world bombing people in the name of democracy and then fly rainbow and BLM flags at our embassies. How could it get more left wing
You hit the nail on the head. I think what makes one of Fallout NV one of my favorite games is the fact that despite the writers having a very different political viewpoint from mine, nothing feels like a straw man “I’m the chad and you’re the soyjack” type writing. They kept the world of fallout it’s own separate entity and I think that kind of discipline is lacking from a lot of media these days. This game makes it easy to have (or absolutely not have) empathy for every settlement that you come across. As someone who has lived in several different places around the US, I think that level of thinking and seeing how “the other side lives” can bridge a lot of different people.
Not every take on politics has to be the player choosing what to support. It could just be “thing bad” and that’s fine. A lot of things are bad.
now that im look at it more. maybe ceasers legion bringing a firm order to the wasteland may actually be more beneficial in the long run. sure many would die, but if the legion manages to survive and take over they could eventually be a firm foundation for a future sociaty like the greeks and romans are to european culture
look at the foundation of the roman republic itself one of the first major acts of the city of rome was the abduction and rape of the sabbean women as the romulus's city lacked enough women to sustain itself if one posits that ends don't justify the means then we may as well throw away the entirety of western civilization for that act alone our laws languages philosophy were all spread by the civilization that emerged from a city of ruthless raiders
NCR isnt the favourite of the writers and it categorically does not place them as the "good option". They are a direct criticism of liberal democracies and bureaucracies, and what they mean for average people just trying to build their own communities. They're the most present faction in the game purely because they have the most room for nuanced and varied quests and plots. Also they're certainly not hard left leaning as your thumbnail would imply.
Great video, just wanted to put out my small critiques and add to the discussion
NCR is literally the good decision compared to everything else. It's not even a lesser of all evils. The problems of the NCR are... corruption. In the nuclear wasteland. Wow. How terrible.
That thumbnail is so cursed.
I still like to think that the mr house ending is what led to The Outer Worlds
Ultimately tho the ‘left and right’ dichotomy is bullshit.
The values aren’t black and white, or opposites, it’s trade offs.
The political trichotomy is tradition, liberty and equality.
You can’t get 1 without loosing the other 2.
House would fit into freedom as he’s less controlling than the NCR, and Legion, acts in the way of contracts and so on.
Ceasar would fit equality as they’re collectivists, anti property rights, a ‘greater good’ idea system and so on.
NCR would be equality as they try and handle what everyone gets, who can do what and so on.
Summary: “do you have a license for that?” “Are you smoking legal smokes?” And so on.
It may have been a accidental point they went for in this- given apparently they had a 5th faction planned but never implemented.
The 5th faction was the followers, at one point they were planned to be a major faction.
@@MrKing-771 actually there was talk of a 5th ending in the files and we later find the joke ending, so it’s possible that the ‘5th’ was just the ‘we left the Mojave’
@@silent_stalker3687 what is the joke ending?
NCR would fit tradition actually as it tries to be the traditional US Government
@@MrKing-771 the joke ending being ‘hey go to the Mojave outpost and leave’ was the planned joke ending but it was cut.
Another joke ending is Yes man- given by his name pretty much
I see Caesar as one of the best characters to come out of Fallout. IMO all my favorite characters are pretty much from the Legion. Caesar reminds me so much of Colonel Kurtz from Heart of Darkness and part of me truly wants him to succeed because what he says about the NCR is true. Its going to corrupt what’s left of America by bringing it back to what led it to destruction.
I think Caesar represents a truth about human history that we are brutal if our environment is. He’s what’s necessary for the apocalypse for tribal types of people who can’t integrate into the NCR.
Remember the NCR is a parallel to the US Government and we see how they treat the khans and other tribals who won’t bow to them. Environment really does shape not only our political views but the way we live.
If you believe in yourself and with a tiny pinch of magic, all your dreams can come true
Honestly great ans concise video.