Why Caesar's Legion is Ultimately a GOOD thing for the WASTELAND - Fallout New Vegas Lore
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- A video about Caesar's Legion and the 18th century German philosopher who influenced Fallout New Vegas's meanest faction- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.
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Happy 20th Anniversary profligates. Don't forget that Fallout 1 is FREE on Steam for the next couple hours, so do yourself a favor and go play the game that started it all (goo.gl/WnJtL4). We had to postpone working on videos this month due to the category 5 hurricane that pummeled our state. It's kinda like Fallout, but with nature trying to kill you instead of nukes. Keep your eyes peeled for a Storyteller update video coming soon, along with other news. Hail to Caesar. -J
ShoddyCast Can we have more Science! Videos please?
Shoddy cast why now I just bought the game 5 months ago
ShoddyCast the brotherhood of steel!
The capital and some bits of the comonwealth chapters.
Along with the minute men, rebuildig the CPG and the ncr.
Steel, determination, good intentions and taxes.
Its about time you realized the Legions purpose
one problem Caesar had no air to his throne in Fallout New Vegas, unless he picked someone to take his place if when he dies or is killed, the Legion will end up ripping it self apart.
Thesis: NCR
Antithesis: Ceasar's Legion
Synthesis: Fantastic and his vault of naked women.
Bless
FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH LEGION
FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH NCR
FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH HOUSE
FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH YES MAN
FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH BOS
*NOW FANTASTIC AND HIS NAKED WOMEN POLICY IS MY NEW BEST FRIEND*
What in the goddamn?
Hey man, when in Rome
Yooo
the answer is obvious. if the NCR is the thesis and the Legion is the antithesis, the only synthesis would be Easy Pete
Itz_Mike Films *softly* dont
+Alien Slayer Let us guide the Easy Petes into migrating their way into ruling the world!
Easy pete , the Gus chiggens if the fallout universe.
It's time for Easy Pete's empire to rise
Itz_Mike Films Radposting never changes
Caesar accidentally pointed out the weakness in his own Legion when he talked about the NCR under Tandi. She was so influential she was able to operate with the power of a dictator, and Caesar acknowledges the NCR actually worked under her control. The second she died and real democracy took over is when the NCR became corrupt.
Likewise the Legion only works so long as Caesar lives. He holds it together through the massive level of loyalty he commands in men like Lanius. But he acknowledges Lanius doesn't care for the Legion or his beliefs; he only plays along out of loyalty. In the long run the Legion won't last without a leader like Caesar. If he dies the Legion loses the ideological focus and unity instilled by him. And without them the Legion falls.
The Legion can sustain itself just fine after Caesar's death, but whoever takes over cannot be like Caesar. After the events of Hoover Dam, and the integration of the NCR into the Legion's rule, the Legion is obviously much more powerful than ever before. With the former NCR's technological superiority now having been absorbed, Caesar's vast plans for mass imperialism across the Mojave can become reality. However, AFTER the era of Caesar's leadership and control, this cannot, (at least not constantly), continue. If you remember from dialogue with Caesar, one of his labels for what he describes as a Pax Romana is "nationalist". The part he describes as "nationalist", only comes after the Legion can become a legitimate power, and essentially means that when it's done, (which would mean during Caesar's rule assuming that he lives and after), the Legion will need to keep it's attacks on other cultures regulated properly, as to not threaten the Legion's sovereignity, ie. to keep it's existence as a power. This is the reason why the Legate taking over the Legion will inevitably result in it's fall, since Lanius has 0 boundaries in terms of what Caesar wants. He will continue warfare regardless of what's better for the collective. Although many forget, the Legate, too is simply a mortal, who can and will end up destroying everything that Caesar worked for in the scenario that he takes over. Caesar's death alone will not destroy the Legion, the contributing factors for that hypothetical would be comprised of the elected leader who comes after, assuming that Caesar dies before a decision for who rules is picked, that is; but that's dependant on when he dies. As for if Caesar lives to see his goals through, and must select a new emperor of the Legion before the end, there's many options, as long as Caesar doesn't misguide them in his ideology. Put simply, they can't choose alone. If Caesar dies before he can choose, it's likely the Legion will make the wrong decision. But if he LIVES, Caesar, assuming Caesar believes what he believes about the Pax Romana, the Legion will prosper. Their blind patriotism caused by the general aesthetic of the totalitarian Legion cannot stop Caesar from steering his people in the right direction for the future, unless Caesar is an idiot, which isn't true, thankfully.
Omg im a hard legion fanbitch but this is actually a good ass comment
I agree the legion is not only eating themselves out like the ncr but they are also kind of evil and practice slavery, their economy might be stable but they have horrible ethics that make the ncr the best hope for a civilized country
Name a single nation or empire prior to mass industrialization that didn’t have slavery in some form.
Courier 6 negative, the legion is a very primitive, barbarian “government” with no citizens and no technology, or even basic medicine. They produce nothing and are a big parasite that will die once there is nothing more to conquer, or they get beaten back and can’t conquer anyone else
"If you were born into a world that looked like this one" - I was, its called Luton, UK lol
Lmao
yooooooooooo
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
slough tho o.o
😂😂😂😂 luton is a shit hole
10/10
Religion of Easy Pete is the best hope for humanity
L O O K A T E M G O
You mean the God Emperor
I only follow The Church of No Bark Noonan
Don't you tell what I know, all them quack Doctors talkin about what them Radscorpion stings I've taken to me skull.
lemme smash Bask in the glory of atoms light!
I find it funny that they chose a bull for Caesar's Legion, there was a point in the early Roman Republic, the Socii War, where the Romans suffered a defeat at the hands of the Socii (allies) the symbol of the Socii was a bull and they minted a coin of a bull trampling a wolf and filtered it into the Roman economy, and I believe that if anyone found the coin or coins they were instructed to destroy it. It's been awhile since I've studied Latin and Roman history, so correct me if I'm wrong. Keep up the good work ShoddyCast.
Well yeah, Caesar's Legion is based on a historical one.
Yeah and in Rome way back the dictator was literally called Julius CASAER
@@gr9in.of.s9nd He wasn't the emperor, he was a consul and life-time dictator; not a formal emperor, never crowned himself.
@@bioemiliano Had he survived, he would have eventually become the First Roman Emperor (or Princeps, as it was the original title). Maybe the Roman Empire would have been even bigger and stronger than it was, maybe the hermanic tribes would have been conquered just as the gauls
@@fildariusv7045 No. He nerver crowned himself and even if he survived he wouldn't crown himself. His death is crucial for the creation of the empire, if he survived, the empire wouldn't exist, unless another event replaces his death.
A country of Gary's clones should be sufficient
We will all be doomed
With Chancellor Yes Man as their head of state
Gary 23 is best Gary ^^
Gaaaaryyyy
@@Deadsea_1993 Hah! Gary.
Tunnel snakes rules
funbrute31 we are the tunnel snakes and we ru ru ru ru ru ru rule!!!
Go soak your head butch.....lolz
Mostly because Tunnel Snakes rule!
Sound like a gay club
You forgot a
“That’s Us!”
In the middle
This guy forgot the whole point of Caesar‘s war with the NCR. He‘s trying to conquer it and merge both civilizations to an empire. He is creating the synthesis by himself.
Yeah a lot of people forget that
Is he tho or is he just tryna spread the legion to the west; not necessarily merge them, which implies hes tryna take incorporate ncr idealogies Into the legion. That said, I haven't played the game in a really long time but I don't remember if caeser ever says anything on this.
@@marcoantonioc5437 Yes he is.
"you know, Hitler was just trying to create the perfect glorious utopia by giving his people living space, A lot of people forget that"
@@Groobis Godwins law. You know that you‘re just able to not post a comment, do you?
Obsidian > Bethesda
Shlong Dong Millionaire~ i wish that they would make a next fallout game but thats probably never going to happen 🙁
Are the guys who made NV even still working for Obsidian? Just saying that a new Obsidian spin-off might not be what everyone expects.
Chris Avellone left but also not, IIRC.
NorthRemembers Sawyer and many other leads that worked on New Vegas still work at Obsidian and have publicly stated multiple times they'd love to work on fallout again
Shlong Dong Millionaire~ Oxhorn is good at romanticizing fallout, makes you think that there is more to Fallouts like Fallout 4. In any case these kinds of comments is getting old.
Just give up. Only one thing can reborn this wasteland, and that's not Legion. Yes, i'm talking about republic of Dave. Glory to the Dave!
*HAHAHAAAAAA... GARY!!*
@@basedbattledroid3507 Gary, GARY! Gary Gary, Gary, GARY, GARY! Gary.
Dave got mulled by a deathclaw
Garrrryyyyy
I just save House. Dude saved my life and just wanna be left alone in his city. My kind of guy.
chiaki
Yeh, people often forget that Mr. House wasn't responsible for the Courier getting domed in the noggin by a 9mm. It was all Benny.
Which is why I only ever kill Benny, then just consider that the end. After Benny, I side with no one. Just explore and stuff.
@@Danthenuggetman well shit now i feel bad i had a hard time thanks to add/adhd paying attention and as soon as i saw house i domed him thinking he tried to have me killed the prick i was brining the chip to you! that probably should have clued me in but yeah...
Still exploiting humans and crushing the people who opposes him makes him the worst choice dude did u even see the ending??
He ain't my daddy f*** him
I feel this video should be called 'Why Caesar's ideologies is ultimately a GOOD thing for the WASTELAND' The problem with Caesar's Legion is that it's built up up nothing but raiders, they survive most on raiding, to destroy the NCR is to destroy themselves. When Caesar passes away assuming he hasn't been killed and his tumor was removed, leadership falls under Lanius, who is nothing but a warrior, he doesn't have the intellect and wisdom Caesar held, he will lead the Legion the only way he knows how, to war. Caesar is the only one that holds these ideologies, no one else, and these ideologies are doomed to die with him.
The Problem with that, is that even if caeser is going to win, what is going to be the new antihesis for the Legion. Nothing since they cant beat the NCR since they still be at war with each other and the NCR lost most of its disadvantages in a victory of the Legion,and would become more powerful (short supply lines, high Moral since they would fight on the doorstep of the NCR, no Vegas to bleed them dry and a short frontline). And since ceasar assimilated basicly every tripe left, the Hegelian dialectic would fail. The Mojave and vegas are death traps if you cant completly secure them and make peace.
On a side note the NCR and the Legion are both trying to implemend a System that failed before and both can represent rome themself.
The NCR the overstreched Rome with the Hoover dam as the hardianswall but also the rome that can replace 3 Legions that were lost in Germania and lose but always comes back.
And the Legion is Rome at its begining were it cultivated many tribes and City states and gained much needed power but without a Capital City and were eyery loss could have meant the end.(Caesar talks ingame about the 4 year Long recovery and how he had to press every last bit out of the four states and changed his leading princible through Lanius. "Now the men have more fear about the men behind them then the ones infont of them".)
the Problem is that that the new Synthesis would not have an opportunity to become a Thesis and have an antithesis and become a "better" synethesis. Or in other words the wasteland would become the same for a few deacades thats enough time to fail. As we seen in Fallout 2 to the Brotherhood or the ending slides for Vault City and the NCR they didnt Change and even if they could achieve the Goal they wanted it chanced them into something worse most of the time.
The Legion lands are only secure because most raiders are killed or are afraid to be raiders. if you bring basicly every officer to one Location you have overstreched yourself. Thats one Reason why in Zion there are no Legion soldiers they let the tribes do the dirty work for them while they prepare for the 2nd battle of the Hoover dam. Also the Legion would lose lots of troops in the 2nd battle nad thinking of the caesar how he talked about the struggles of regrouping and enslaving more People the Legion would most likely still have huge losses in Manpower. Btw the main NCR land also doent have (many) raiders or mutants, thats why Cass and some other People didnt want to stay there.
If the NCR loses they always retreat to the mojave outpost so they have lets say 50 % of the troops of the mojave evacuated to one easily deafendable spot, its a bottleneck, think of 300 but with one side using guns while the other side mostly uses spears and knifes , so they got still a big army and a good postition, they still got a vertibird fleet, artilerie and top notch Equipment. but I guess they just lost and the war ends just there, because they would totaly forgive an enslaving totalitarien state that is the exact opposite of them for slautering there troops and beating them and make peace. That would be the same as if ceasar would be beaten after the first battle at the Hoover dam. A conquest of the main land would fail as it is said in the speech checks with lanius in 3/4 of the battle.
P.S. It should also be questioned why we should use the Hegelian dialects to debate. Those factions just being the Thesis or the Antithesis doesnt mean that one they would take over anything of the other one and ceasar is only the antithesis for the NCRs Expansion not its corrouption , not its Inflation or its lack of soldiers (its even a bigger Thesis at that).
The Problem is that we only hear about Dialectics from ceasar and his own Interpretation beause the Hegelian diaclects are more like this: Problem-> reaction-> solution. And the Legion is hardly a reaction to the corruption of the NCR exept for ceasar´s reason to form them himself its never talked about by lower soldier they most of the time talk about how the NCR soldiers are Cowards or just hail theyre leaders while the NCR soldier seem to have a better understanding what the NCR stands for.
So the NCR with many of its modern day Problems (curruption, greed and bad election that makes you belive the voters are some sort of cult of the president, ceasars examble of tandi), should just abandon the Country and its People, that it signed a defensiv alliance with, because they cant stop Terrorists and bandits from attacking the supply lines, being corrupt and greedy and let a big Group of slavemaking Tribals integrate into their socity,
that have killed its president, are known for extreme brutallity and at war with them.
The Mojave is full of laws there is just no one to enforce them execpt for the People of the specific town (the reason why everyone tries to kill you after you killed or stole (from) someone). Execpt in the NCR or its Army (evident by the peaceful Option of cass´s quest and the many MPs in the NCR and they are even hard themself whipping drunken soldiers, executing them if they get drug adictiv or have desserted. The NCR core lands also have a Police force as seen in Fallout 2.
Btw the NCR made it from Tribal village to big state without starting a war with 50+ tribes and killing 1/3 of the entire Population of the Region.
Sovierika In actual fact, The legion empire is built on slave farming, meaning anyone they deem as a slave works on farms.
Exept when they do, the NCR, which is always ignored, has Trains, vertibirds and laws but their only the biggest and most advanced faction in the waste as of 2281 so lets ignore them. We can only secure safety,
in a wasteland that has a currency, common laws inside most towns (dont kill, dont steal), slavers and raiders but also new Building see arrayo or Frisco (ruled by the shi) or a recovering infrastructure see the monorail or the fact that there are new found Hospitals in the big Citys,
but we can only secure safety though:
a Dictatorship with nearly mindless Drones that doesnt allow the best medicine of the waste in their culture and have at best boats and are not interested in rebuilding the infrastrucure.
Another Dictatorship which is a policestate but mostly anachry since the owner doesnt care about any area other than the Strip or
An overstreched and corruped Republic that tries to rebuilt america under older value, the same one that can lead to our socity or an even bigger corrupt, overstreched, ressource deprived state that only substains itself through war and nukes (the former USA)
P.S. Only a few Member of the WCS are still mentaly cannibals, Mortimer and a few more while there is also a part of the WCS that are no longer cannibals. In the quest its the players action to decide what the WCS should be this ranges from returning to canibalism to the WCS murdering Mortimer for reintroducing the mentality. Also ist hard to check someones deepest thoughts, especialy if you are locked in a robot body and cant sneek into the resturant to get some proof.
And last but not least, of Course there are minor faction that are radical, thats the Point of Fallout, at first there will be tribes that are most of the time super radical and after that, they normaly integrate or rise into a bigger Group or state that has a political agender a concept of a state and an Ideologie or will be wiped out most of the time.
Helping more settlements for Preston is at the center of the pendulum
Agreed, the minutemen are my favorite. It’s just a shame they were so poorly executed by Bethesda, I wish they had made you acquire things for them by doing dangerous missions like getting vertibirds from the sentinel site in the glowing sea, getting better weapons than a laser musket, actually helping you build fortresses and sway the hearts and minds of the people. I hated the fact that they couldn’t do anything for themselves
Honestly, House is the best option for America as of now.
1. Stability.
Since he is immortal, he won't face the problem Caesar does - the whole house of cards residing on just one. His rule has proven itself to be a good thing for Vegas - it is more developed than both the sides and, most importantly, stays *out* of conflicts, providing a decent - by the standards of the Wasteland, anyways - life for its citizens.
2. House *does* learn from the past.
House has seen what the Old World was like and came prepared. His laser systems were the one thing to stop Vegas from being obliterated by nuclear fire. Now, he sees the foolishness of the NCR and the extremism of the Legion and stands in the middle.
3. The future is secure.
House proves to be quite a wise leader, and we may just see humanity's return to space in a hundred years or so. His rule allows for the advancement of technology without the expense of stabiity.
Ivan Alekseyev This has no bearing on your argument, but wasn't it a laser defense system that House had?
I completely agree, and even if you are playing as a self-serving courier I still believe House is the best option.
The ending makes it perfectly clear that under House the courier was given whatever their heart desired, all without the hassle of trying to run an independent Vegas yourself while awaiting the day Yes-Man inevitably betrays you.
You're right, actually. My mistake.
@MrOverCritical1989: see, ignorant people like you only thinking entirely with emotion and not taking any sense of practicality into the situation
Houses economical policies are retarded though. Correct me if im wrong.
Lets save civilisation!
Lets only have casionos and no industry whatsoever! We will just buy industrial products from our neighbour, in exchage for gambling... which they can easily do in New Reno if they ever decide they dont like me anymore...
Lets kick our only trading partner out by force, likely starting a war with them!
Now we have all the materials we need to build a fricking spaceship and finally get off this planet!
new empire of easy pete
All hail the great prospector and guardian of Goodsprings.
No dynamite for anyone
"Yeeep." - Easy Pete
What's ironic is that the NCR is a far better analogy to the Roman Empire than Ceasar's Legion. A republic with lots of corruption, squabbling and infighting that, starting out small and insignificant nonetheless manages to expand, partly out of the perceived need to pacify their boarders, partly out of sheer hybris and partly because some polities simply admire their success and want to be part of it. They manage to forge a large, stable empire with at least some semblance of peace and justice. They may (probably) overextend themselves and fall to autocracy as the Roman Republic did but then that may be just the beginning of another long period of relative peace and relatively benign rule.
Caesar is nothing like that. He's not the second coming of old Gaius Julius, even less an Augustus who really can pragmatically forge a Republic at the brink of collapse into a stable Autocracy. He's much more like Alexander the Great or Gengihs Khan. A charismatic leader, maybe even a genius military commander who somehow acquires an effective military force and goes out conquering. He may even tell himself that it's for noble reasons but he makes little attempt to get the institutions off the ground that may stabilize and normalize his empire after his death. He doesn't even do the minimum that anyone in his position with an eye to the future has to do: establish a mechanism for orderly succession. Basically, he's just going to go on conquering until he's defeated or killed and then his empire will disintegrate into anarchy once again. All along he's never producing anything, living "off the land" as it were, which of course means squeezing everyone in the lands he conquers dry for the sake of his military. He's a raider, really, just better organized. After he's gone it won't even be like with the real world Alexander or Genghis, where there will be some old established cultures like China or Persia or Egypt raising from the ashes because those don't really exist in Fallout. It will just be anarchy and raiders and the fight for survival all over again until something that's not so damn stupid and comically evil comes along, something that understands that to build a stable polity you need stable institutions and balanced interests and that you can't crucify and enslave your way to peace and prosperity. Something like, I dunno, the NCR.
Best comment here by far.
I think that he placed himself artificially in the position of rome before rome but i think that either way isnt necessarily bad because it created an cultural foundation of sorts for what is to come
Also, the NCR frankly have a number of soldiers that's more akin to an actual Legion.
The Legion in the game is more like a Contubernium. Big talk about the "tribes to the east" but why the hell wasn't Caesar with them? Why didn't he just send Lanius to the Mojave from the start? That's how the actual relationship between Legates and Senators worked.
And I have to say; that's a remarkably brilliant analysis of the flaws with both major factions.
Totally agree that the NCR is corrupt and money-hungry and Caesar is basically just a Raider with a cult.
Don't know if I would compare Caesar to Genghis Khan though, because he actually supported women's rights (within the capacity of that time period though, it was nothing groundbreaking, but definitely had more respect for women than previous tyrants, NV Caesar included).
And while Caesar (both of them) sought to assimilate groups into the Legion by extinguishing individual cultures and identities; people living under Genghis Khan generally got to keep those things, he tolerated multiple cultures as long as they agreed to the Mongol empire being their main governing body, Genghis Khan was more like Thanos; if he actually thought things through. They even have heaps of quotes relating to a philosophy of universal balance.
Basically its senate vs caesar v2
I think Caeser's Legion is more like Sparta than Rome. As you say, the only thing in common between the Roman Empire and Caeser's Legion is there's a man named Caeser. On the other hand, the biggest difference between the Roman Republic and Caeser's Legion is there's a man named Caeser, imho.
The Divide: "I think our society represents the best chance for the continuation of human civilization in a capacity wholely separate from either the NCR or Legion"
The Courier: "I'm about to end this man's whole career."
Well that's pretty much what every faction says about the others
They didn't do that on purpose dang it
@@quinnholloway5400 I know, it was just for the meme.
My opinion is the same as Benjamin Franklin's:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither and will lose both."
This is something that is even true in the wasteland.
Ben Franklin said that whilst trying to replace one stable government with another. Order was never really in any jeopardy regardless of the outcome. You cannot compare _that_ to Caesar trying to destroy a clearly unstable, chaotic, raider-infested shit show like the NCR. They're just not the same.
gutwille that is exactly right. Caesar wants safety at the expense of liberty and that is why the legion is unsustainable and will lose both eventually.
Bitter comments you don't know what you are talking about. The ncr is far more stable that the continental congress. the American government was just being created, the ncr has been established for awhile. Caesars legion was equally unstable, as is anything based on fear. The legion depended on Caesar to keep it alive, especially since it was in its infancy. most of its members still remembered their former tribal identities, and would likely revert back to those once the infighting starts after Caesars death.
T Hunt The fact that the NCR is old doesn’t make it stable. They’ve been in the Mojave for several years and, yet, despite having established themselves, they can’t so much as put down the Powder Gangers- a group that would have _never existed_ if their justice system wasn’t so ineffective. All the roads are unpoliced and plagued by raiders- making any travel unsafe- to the point that the damn game opens with Great Khans kidnapping the Courier. The Crimson Caravan, their chief supplier, is colluding with a crime syndicate and nobody in the NCR even knows. The NCR is a dysfunctional fucking joke of a country.
The primary reason behind the NCR's inability to police its territory is due to its rapid expansion. There are many references in game that state that the NCR's forces are spread too thinly for proper policing of its territory and sustaining the fight against Ceasar's Legion. That expansion is also part of the problem. They seem to have developed a type of "manifest destiny" that drove them to expand faster and further than their resources could support. This is compounded by the fact that they trampled over many raider tribes and committed some horrible acts as well. As I see it, both the NCR and Legion are doomed to fall by the time the Courier comes along.
@Bitter Comments The NCR were relative newcomers in the Mojave. Their core is far, far away in California, which is precisely why the Legion stood a lick of a chance to begin with. It was freak accidents preventing the arrival of reinforcements from the mainland that led to the impasse rather than the NCR simply roflstomping the spear-chucking barbarians. It's also worth mentioning that the *only* reason the Powder Gangers were able to succesfully riot is because Legion aggression pulled most of the garrison away, so that's actually the Legion's fault, not the NCRs. Maybe (just maybe) if the NCR didn't have the largest raider gang in the wastes breathing down their necks they would have more personnel free for policing the roads, hmm?
The NCR should adopt Caesar’s view on drugs, the Brotherhood’s view on technology, the Followers’ focus on the greater good and House’s view on autonomy. That would be a true synthesis.
Yeah but you want people in New Vegas to be overrun with addicts so that they will become weak and ask for a hero.
Profligate, another settlement needs your help. I’ll mark it on the map.
I heard that the legion was sending there best men against us
I just finished another playthrough. First time I sided with the NCR. I’m in the middle of a second NCR playthrough. And I just finished a Legion play through. Legate Lanius is absolutely terrifying…and for once I was on his side. If you want someone to strike fear into the hearts of your enemies… then you get this 7 foot tall, deep voiced, psychopathic, mysterious masked man to do it for you. If he doesn’t kill you first that is.
Judge Holden plus mask and hair basically
First time I sided with the Legion. Ngl my favourite quest was Arizona Killer lol
@@Falkriim honestly the NCR version of that quest is more fun to me.
@@regalcartoon5932
It’s definitely good, I like how you see the Ranger get thrown off the tower by the Frumentarius (I assume seeing as he’s disguised) but personally I just prefer siding with the Rome LARPers
Trying to kill Lanius is a pain in the ass though.
@@Falkriim ain’t that the damn truth…
Fallout New Vegas: Leaders following different philosophies and ideals within a complex political situation, and you must truly question your own ethics and consider the long-term implications of your decisions.
Fallout 4: Durr Hurr shoot da bad guys! Whoa, look out for the synths!
Yeah...to be honest, in Fallout 4 you had some deep, moral and ethic choses, but the game is basicly ho you put it.
Pew pew pew
Andrea Cusack yup same as vegas 3 major factions, a ultimate weapon and who gets hands on it.
Fallout New Vegas: Leaders following different philosophies and ideals within a complex political situation, and you must question your own ethics and the long term impacts of your decisions.
Fallout 4: Leaders following different philosophies and ideals within a complex political situation, and you must question your own ethics and the long term impacts of your decisions. Additionally, you must question the very nature of consciousness, what it means to be human, how technology and artificial intelligence should be developed and utilized/embraced by humanity, and study the short and long-term effects of a singularity-like event upon the world. Who deserves to be a part of society? Only you can decide - and with it, the fate of civilization and sapience as we know it.
I hate games that make me question my decisions because I just end up hating my choices no matter what they are.
@Franz
Yeah that may be the fluff but for all practical purposes you are essentially railroaded (pun) into choosing one all powerful inheritor of power and murderhobo-ing everybody else... With not a whole hell of alot inbetween...
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the window." -Robert Edwin House, Founder and CEO of RobCo Industries, Founder and Sole Proprietor of the Lucky 38 Casino and Bar, and Sovereign Autocrat of the Free Economic Zone of New Végas.
In order to rebuild, there must first be order
Legion territory not only cleared out hostile wildlife, but abolished crime. There are no raiders. Even chem addicts like fiends stay away from the legion. This is something the ncr can only dream of accomplishing and something house or the brotherhood is uninterested in, content to horde their wealth in their respective fortresses.
The legion is truely rebuilding civilization, not just a parody of it.
There are not raiders, because there isn´t almost anyone. All people in their territory were killed, enslaved or brainwashed into the Legion, so there are probably just few minor tribes that were subjucated more peacefuly, so now they can use those peaceful trade routes to trade with each other those few basic things such minor, backwards tribes can produce... hooray.
“Evil is Easy,while goodness is eternally difficult”
Easy?
As in..easy pete!😱
Interesting think piece.
Really would love to see more of these.
An 100% House follower, eh? I think all factions have good things about them, some more than others.
remember when they made the ncr one... good times
I don't really know. This video basically talks about why, in Caesar's mind, the Legion is the best option the wasteland can have, though from a neutral perspective, between heavy bureaucracy and corruption and a literal horde of slavers, torturers and killers whose only aim is to conquer more, I'd take the former option everytime.
There is no suggestion that the NCR may repeat the same mistake the powers of old did (i.e. nuke the world all over again), in our timeline we avoided to use nukes in war to this day, 76 years after the only two atomic bombs in history to hit an enemy target in war were used, because the effects scared the shit out of us. The entire world of Fallout is a clear example, for everyone who lives there, of what nuclear weapons can do. Plus, the NCR have no reason to use nukes, they don't really have such strong enemies that would justify dropping an hydrogen bomb.
On the other hand, the destiny of the Legion, if they don't accept technology, is to fail. I'm guessing they will either abandon Caesar's primitivist nonsense or simply disband: the NCR is manufacturing new, better weapons, making alliances, and I guess they will in a way or the other enter in possession of some power armors. Hell, they may even be capable to craft their own. And I guess also mr House could his own thing, though I don't see him conquering the whole wasteland, it would be too much for a secluded dictator encapsulated inside a life support pod to deal with.
1st point - you frame them as objectively evil. Let's take your argument apart at the seems.
"literal horde of slavers, torturers and killers" their soldiers are highly trained, disciplined and skilled in warfare. They don't break under pressure of interrogation (Silus) like any NCR soldier would. Slaves? Sure, ancient Romans were slavers. But is that bad? What's the difference between working in a cotton field for free while getting: food, shelter, all the neccesities of survival for your family and commodities to live vs. not even being paid enough to buy food for your work? "Honestia, prudentia et industria" are a slaves virtues. Slaves were respected in Ancient Rome, and they are respected in Caesars legion. Slaves are, quite literally - above profligates in their eyes.
If you're really that narrow minded - you could just call the Legion's slaves as "Indentured servants" or, let's say our world counterpart as "interned intership" or "prison work".
Weren't German soldiers post war used as slave labour to remove the mines, even though they had no part in laying them most of the time? Wasn't that slavery? And how was that okay?
"Their goal is to conquer more" isn't the NCR's goal the same, only sugar coated? Wouldn't they just invade and annex the strip if Caesar's legion wasn't there?
"They don't accept technology" - except they do. They use rifles, pistols, even high-grade weapons. They just don't wanna rely on infrastructure they can't maintain or build like the NCR. They wanna start life over with what they have, slowly reinventing everything instead of living the scavenger style like the NCR or BoS.
@@kestutisvaiciunas8663
1 - They never made the statement that the Legion is objectively evil, they made the subjective and reasonable
determination that they would prefer the everyday reality of living under the NCR to that of living under the Legion.
2 - The quality of soldiers produced by a nation isn't necessarily indicative of that nation's ideological superiority; the
conditions that produce fanatical and effective soldiers aren't the same as those that minimize suffering and produce the greatest quality of life for the maximal number of people.
3 - Yes, the Romans had slaves, but they generally didn't practice chattel slavery in the same way that the Legion does in FNV. Is
that bad? Yes, slavery is bad. There is a difference between being literally denied even the most fundamental rights - i.e., the right as a citizen not to be murdered by another person, worked to death, forced to live in cages, tortured, or made to subsist off of the scantest quantity of food and water necessary to sustain life. How do these compare to being undercompensated, even woefully so, while having all of those protections? It doesn't, not in any favorable way. The Legion, by design, assigns the worth of an individual according to the utility they provide to the state. Slaves are valued only to the degree that they can be exploited. Soldiers are only valued to the extent that they can fight for the state. The individual wants and desires of citizens (citizen slaves, in this case) are ignored in their entirety.
4 - It is not necessary to justify the historical abuse of indentured servants or prisoners of war to recognize that chattel slavery is bad and not preferable even to exploitative capitalism.
5 - Expansion is not tautologically bad. The NCR may conquer territory, they may even commit atrocities (such as the massacre at Bitter Springs) but they are doing so to install a democratic government that - although corrupt and self-serving - allows the people living under its flag to maximize their own happiness in a way that is out of reach for Legion citizens.
6 - The NCR is capable of building factories that produce proprietary munitions, as well as creating civilian infrastructure that allows citizens
transportationresources in the way of pre-war tech and produce their own. They are leagues ahead of both the BoS and the Legion in this way.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
@@kestutisvaiciunas8663 did you really just say that being a slave is something good? You have got to be joking. And the legion does hate technology, they don’t use stimpacks, ceaser says that he doesn’t like mr houses securitrons and will have his men executed if they even see one, and they are still heavily against guns even though they use them.
@@kestutisvaiciunas8663 what? after a good beating silus told me everything
I would 100% side with the NCR if they didn't fuck over Mr. House. That's the only flaw I see with them. The only thing Mr. House wanted was control over the strip, but because the NCR is so corrupt and money-hungry they wanted the strip for further tax collection.
In the removed post-game content, it actually shows Mister House rebuilding Vegas after pushing the NCR and Legion out, which proves he really does care for humanity, at least more than the other two factions.
Well here's the thing. Just because a society fails does not mean that everything it did lead to that failure. You have to analyze it in finer detail. Caesar says that democracy is a failed experiment. But I would disagree. That statement seems to come only out of a cursory analysis of United States history. But one of the longest lived societies in history was the Republic of Venice. It operated continuously under the same government for a thousand years. Caesar says that over reliance on technology lead to the Great War. But I would argue that it wasn't reliance on technology but reliance on imperialism that caused it. Every society larger than a tribe is reliant on some form of technology. No human society can exist without it. At the very least you need writing. Technology does not cause the downfall of societies. It enables them to grow. The more advanced the technology the higher the population it can support. This is because technology is only ever adopted if it can do a job more efficiently or effectively than would be possible otherwise. The statement that the Great War was the result of over reliance on technology seems to come out of the idea that the Great War was fought over resources. But I don't buy that interpretation of fallout history. Compact nuclear fusion was in widespread use in the US. Supposedly the war was fought because they wouldn't give it to China. But that to me seems monumentally unrealistic. I mean do you really think that with how many fusion cells were out there no Chinese person ever got their hands on one? No that doesn't make any sense. And not to mention space travel was easy for the world of fallout and their nuclear rockets. Our solar system is host to vastly more resources than Earth could ever produce. With fallout technology they could easily have taken advantage of it. No I don't believe it was truly a war of resources. And I don't think that the Great War was simply the grand arc of history playing to its logical conclusion. Similar to how Mr House knew that the Great War was coming and intended to use it to his own power hungry ends I think there were other agendas and machinations at play.
CommanderHuggins Bethesda hints at the idea that the Zetan Extraterrestrials were the ones that started the War between Murica and China.
CommanderHuggins it's a game. a producer can't think about all those details
Fundamentally imperialism and extending a domain is about control over resouces as well so even if there were other agendas it still narrows down to the powers that be trying to claim ownership of that which is left. Its easier to see however when there are less resources available and high demand which makes a "resource war" very believable and from my understanding energy was not the concern but rather oil was, which is far more valuable and useful then for just making energy or stuff to eradicate your neighbor.
A republic will never be as good as the best of monarchies, which is kind of what House and Caesar offer. Thing is though, that once Caesar is dead his legion will just fall apart while House will still be in charge of new Vegas keeping track of everything.
House is wrong in one thing, that he's the best chance for the future of humanity. He's the second best, the Courier, because of his/her customizable nature has the potential to be the single smartest, strongest and luckiest being in the entire Mojave serving as a force of good. House's only edge is his longevity but how hard would it be for a courier like the one mentioned to figure something out and replace House as a stronger leader with access to the Divide's arsenal, Big MT's tech and the Sierra Madre's vending machines?
Profit Potato that is why the us, the most successful country, is a republic.
Screw this. I want Mr. New Vegas to rule the Mojave. The man is so wholesome that the world will bow down and show compassion to each other. No homo but I wanna give Mr. New Vegas a hug.
Mr New Vegas is an AI
A damn good one at that though
Lol. Yall serious?
Wish you could find him in game
@@chewchewtrain so was the enclave president in fallout 3
About the question of what the governing body should look like, Caesar had one dialogue about it: "But the resolution of the conflict yields something new - a synthesis - eliminating the flaws in each, leaving behind common elements and ideas."
I have been listening, and i still say it is the NCR in general.
In the game i went with Mr House nearly every time because you are wrong about something. Most people living in such a world would not be concerned with politics or the past. The wider population would be concerned with their own survival, and the rest of the world be damned. Moralizing and thinking about philosophy is a luxury that you can afford today because you live in a prospering society. Yes, compared to most of human history, living in a first world country today is a pretty damn sweet deal.
And i was roleplaying someone who lived there.
Looking it from the outside, NCR will be outlasting the Legion exactly because it is run by individuals who look out for themselves. Self interest is something that will come up sooner or later. And societies that do not allow for those interests to be expressed, will inevitably either be overthrown or corrupted so they do. Even if Caesar truly managed to brainwash the tribes he conquered. At least after his deaths their own oligarchs will rise who will not give a shit about Caesars ideas and look out for themselves. A system built around this can at least hope to cope with it. Caesars legion would be either destroyed from the inside, or corrupted as the new nobility keeps the apperances but kills their meaning.
Z Zs Forgive us for caring about our fellow man. We're not all wolves like you.
Humans are much more like how we traditionally imagine wolves to be as wolves themselves are.
oh shit a furry
I mostly agree with you and I must say... Isn't Yes Man path likely based on this? I mean, of course the Courier will have some great influence and will be seeing as some kind of oracle by some, but all in all, he/she lets people of the wasteland mind their own business, looking for themselves and their interests as longs as they don't interfere with others or presents as a threat to others. Be it the Boomers, Followers, Supermutants and Nightkins at Jacobstown or the White Glove Society.
Svraoa - it depends on where you draw the line between freedom and security. Anarchy is the most unstable form of, or rather, lack of governance. Sooner or later a state would rise, and the yes man way looks like it will be more bloody as needed. I mean being a capable person and all, it is a courier, just how much experience does he have running the place? Let't say you, the real life you would go trough hell and have this opportunity presented. Would you go for it? Because i would not trust myself running a city.
While in the fallout universe (And hey, it happens in real life too.) democracy might have failed spectacularly, it is still one of the most free-ish but still stable form of governance we have a working model of.
Caesar’s Legion is the only faction (aside from perhaps House) that I can see lasting at least a few decades longer. He will not rule like this forever. He seeks synthesis with the NCR after conquering them. And, because he recognizes Lanius’ shortcomings, he no doubt has a true successor in mind. The Courier.
Oh yes the empire run by one man. Yes that will surly outlast a modern democratic state. That even while corrupt handles transitions of power without throwing the country into civil war.
@@et5216 In the NCRs derelict bureaucratic corrupt state during New Vegas, yes the Legion would outlast it by decades.
@@2UNIEK but like how? The Legion is composed of a bunch of assimilated tribes? Tribes that have been forced into the legion for like 30 years. The legion is much more culturally unstable and thus easier to form civil wars and to have states break away. Such a society is one power struggle away from consuming itself in civil war.
The NCR for all its faults is the closest thing to a proper modern state. They have been around for quite awhile and have a relatively safe core territory. Even if a massive crisis happens and the NCR loses some of its frontier holdings that won’t cause the complete dissolution of the NCR. Sure the legion could beat them out of the Mojave where the NCR is overextended short on supply and little interest is thrown the legions way.
But once the legion takes the Mojave and pushes west they will face the same problems all while the NCR is further strengthened. The legion will not be this mythical silver bullet that some how magically defeats the NCR.
@@et5216the vault 22 quest scientist in camp McCarran talks about how the NCR has run out of clean water in California and is suffering food production and will face a famine in a decade or so if they can't keep expanding to feed themselves, he is working on a solution which is why he is focused on vault 22 for it's plant growth for farming
If the legion box the NCR in and trap them in their core territory they will starve, everyone thinks they want the dam for power but they have power back home and they also have helios one even tho they can't get it working yet, the dam is about clean water from the Colorado not really power (it's a bonus)
The NCR is more prone to a civil war as they have very loose loyalty and high corruption and many powerful organizations within them (hub families, crimson caravan, military officers, the president, Brahmin herders, organized crime) the legion is centralized and while everyone thinks it will end when Caesar dies he has successors either in lanius or the courier which I admit is a cop out answer
But the legion is loyal to Caesar and Caesar will bless whoever he lets succeed him, and while it may fall to corruption or civil war eventually it won't be immediate especially with how harsh punishment is and how smart and ever vigilant the frumentarii are, I'd say it would take to the end of lanius's rule for the fault lines to begin cracking
@@et5216 The Romans in real life forced nations into them as well, yet their empire lasted for 1000 years. They had many civil wars, and pretty much crushed the opposition every single time.
NCR: Cucks, enjoy your taxes and paperwork
Caesar Legion: Incels, take that Stacey
Yes Man: Reddit, haha funny robot man run city
Mr House: True patrician
Schopenhauer Ass Plower corpse in a jar 👌🏾😂
Brotherhood: cool
Enclave: evil
Hotel: triviago
Somehow understanding modern slang is harder than understanding the Latin phrases Legion guys speak.
well your mom gay
@Audio Sugar Late to the party but the NCR weren't all that innocent... Still waaay better than Caesar. People that say that Caesar was the best option are well... basically "alphas" (males obviously) who don't mind a bit of rape and enslavement. I think the Yes Man ending would have been the best one depending on how you treated the individual factions.
NPC1: [SPEECH 60] hey man the legion isn't that good the NCR is better and i'm sure they'd win, c'mon join us.
NPC 2: [FAILED] The legion won't go down quietly, you can count on that
The problem with this is it places all of the blame for the great war on America, and not the rest of the world, including the European Commonwealth, the USSR, China, ect. Saying that it's inevitable that democracy in will lead to nuclear war is ignoring all other governments in the world.
In the US's history, we have spent only 26 years of our centuries of existence at peace with the whole world. I cant speak for democracy, but the US is a warmonger, a creature that feeds on armed conflict like a Lion feeds on Gazelle
connor vinas, I mostly blame the fact that America decided to try to go into every conflict it could to spread their ideals. This made enemies and thus higher tensions and more conflict, the cycle repeats. I do not believe though that this is because of democracy. It was not democracy that caused the old world to suffer, it was greed.
But the American form of Democracy not only enables rampant destructive greed, but encourages it, demands it even. In real life, climate change is the more likely apocalypse than Nuclear war, but the end result, and cause are the same. Greed will destroy us, and it looks like the current form of democracy isn't capable of reigning in that greed.
Jacob Van Mechelen Apparently it only takes one to tango. If United States fights a war for resources it's greedy. If the world fights a war for resources it's perfectly acceptable. The US is condemned for not magicing up some new fuel source that can take the place of oil. China, who is not hindered by personal greed or special interests and would benefit greatly is not blamed for lacking that wonder.
accept the US did magic up a new fuel source, its called fusion power... and then they promptly refused to share it with the rest of the world.
Along with taking the last of the oil... which is what caused china to invade.
I used to play a roleplay server based on the world of fallout, specifically NV. I tried out a bunch of different characters and different roles but I finally settled on playing a female Legion Forgemistress, in a Legion restructured after the death of Caesar and the usurping of Lanius. It was called the Masonry Reformation, due to the fact that instead of pitching tents or taking over vacant pre war structures like the NCR does, this new Legion learned to build with brick and mortar once again. The Legion's Castrum in the game was more of a castle then a fort. There was still slavery, which obviously is a problem morally, but there was also some change socially. Women were still not allowed into roles of combat but due to the Legions new focus on technology for those who have earned it, as well as architecture and engineering, women who could prove themselves capable of non combatant tasks would be assigned as the engineers of the Legion, both raising its children and its walls. I found through my time experiencing other roles that the NCR had no such force keeping its troops together. As Combat Engineer my job was to collect salvage, maintain systems, lay landmines and barbed wire, and get screamed at by the Lieutenant every time I failed to meet these expectations. It wasn't fun at all for me and when I tried to join the Legion as a woman no less I was treated with more appreciation then I ever was in the NCR. The battling men always wanted the blades I forged and they always thanked me for my work if they returned from war. As long as I stayed in line and did not attempt to engage in combat or speak over the higher ranking Legionaries there was always a place for me. For my character, I should say. Roleplaying with actual live people in a fallout setting can get really immersive even if the game is pixels on a screen.
So Caesar wants to keep people from making the same mistakes of the old world? Can you image if Caesar's Legion met the (East Coast) Brotherhood of Steel? Yes I know they would fight and the Legion would lose against the Brotherhood, but they share the same idea: To keep society from destroying itself again. The Brotherhood wants to find/confiscate/destroy technology that could be dangerous if fallen into the wrong hands. The Legion wants to destroy the NCR because it's almost exactly like the government that helped end the world.
but would they fight? I mean as long as neither Bos, nor Legion do not wish to push their borders there is no valid reason to fight - Legion do not have high tech.. and even if they would have -> they do not use it and most likely would transfer it to BoS if "asked". On the other side BoS one and single motivation for conquering Legion would be freeing people... but considering their own altitude toward population it is highly doubtful. So they are more likely to become allies of some sort and would both feed upon common people exploitation...
The Eastern brotherhood indeed wants to destroy, the western wants to hoard. The Legion will inevitably destroy the smaller western and sees the eastern as a threat as well, he sees that they want to destroy it yes, but they still use it. The brotherhood will inevitably find its own corrupt leader who sees technology as a door way to power, just as the Enclave has.
MasMustacheo the legion would overwhelm the eastern BOS with sheer numbers, the legion has around 500,000 citizens as of new Vegas, if they expanded to the east coast you could add it to maybe around 1.2 Million or more.
A few hundred BOS even a few thousand couldn’t hold back hundreds of thousands of potential soldiers.
No, he wants to destroy the NCR because the Legion can only function as a military force and it constantly needs something to fight and conquer. He may talk about preventing a second nuclear war, but ultimately, his lack of empathy for his enemies as anything more than people to kill or subjugate, and his cruel treatment of failed officers encourages thoughtless destruction that could easily lead to a repeat of history if the Legion ever abandoned its hatred/hesitation to use modern tech and if they ever found themselves in possession of nukes. I would go so far as to say that the Legion's stupidity is all that prevents them from repeating the great war.
i disagree, i feel the legion makes the most sense in that regard, by his cruel treatment, he prepares them for the harsh wastes they know, and trains them more than anyone else, by force. He sparks hatred in them, so one day, his legion wil fall, but with it, information on how to survive, how to fight with even primitive weaponry against beasts harder and stronger than you, and other valuable traits would be trained to younger generations, and with it, social, cultural, and even governmental advances would take place, while making people become much more cold and hard, they would then be prepared for this new world more than they had the past 150 years. sure, some places are able to survive, but are easily one deathclaw away from total obliteration. take goodsprings, one deathclaw would kill all in the town without a doubt, and the unfortunate part is, without the skills with all caesar has, they dont stand a chance. even with guns, they cant out run one. Even other mutated creatures could kill all of them, and thats the down-fall. while sure, civilization is rebuilding, its also softening up, becoming equally weak, relying more on numbers and like the old world, tech, over skills, and knowledge.
I’d argue that the ancien regime was the thesis, the Revolution was the antithesis and the Napoleonic Empire was the synthesis. I think whoever wins the war between NCR and CL the resulting society will be a synthesis. Caesar says that the Legion will be changed as a result of the war. I feel like something akin to the Roman Republic or the Roman Empire will be the synthesis of the two. Finding a leader to embody these ideals will be tough though. Maybe Arcade Gannon. Caesar does have a strange respect for him even tho Gannon despises him.
I think Caesar respects Gannon because they’re both interested in History, politics, philosophy, economics etc
High int courier is the best choice
*NCR-ness Intensifies*
*Patriotic music plays*
*Bear roars in distance*
Me, with a tear in my eye: Ain’t that a kick in the head...
Long live the Republic!
watch yourself profligate
@@cherby2736 We won't go quietly. The Legion can count on that.
@@Dorkeydaze OK, can we have water now? How. Much was it? 10 caps per gallon? 2 gallons please
Justinian The Great Emperor
*gives two gallons of water dilated with salt so you’ll buy two more.
Me: “have a nice day.”
*smirks.
WE WONT GO QUIETLY
edgy nerd the legion can count on that
Анастасия Асланова
Firing Gatling Laser with Implant grx on
I miss when games had rather edgy dialogue rather than the fucking cringe that we got with the past few years and fallout 4 lol
It's been a long tour. All I can think about now is going back home.
THE LEGION CAN COUNT ON THAT
how smart do you think he felt when he said ''pendulum of progress''
Are people actually getting this? They aren't saying the Legion is good in itself. They're saying they're the other extreme to the NCR.
The NCR is an extention of the old world, which as we all know didn't end well. King Louis as the video suggests.
The Legion is a monster which rejects everything about that world, but is "evil" and unsustainable for it. Napolean then.
Like the French needed a King Louis and a Napolean in order to eventually reject them and take a third and better option, the wasteland needs the NCR (or just pre-war America) to show the failings of that system, and Caesar to show that simply doing the opposite isn't any good either. Hopefully whoever eventually takes over will display a mixture of the two, combining the liberties and power of the NCR with the caution and stability of the Legion. Either extreme alone is unsustainable though.
sm901ftw I feel like everyone didn't watch two minutes into the fucking video.
Sin jeez sounds like someone's angry
This sounds remarkably similar to the current political climate in the US.
sm901ftw Oh holy shit someone actually understands Hegelian Dialectics and Caesar! Caesar actually explicitly states that he knows the legion itself will be transformed: that he is doing this for the best of BOTH factions.
That said: pay more attention to what House is saying in the path of each ending if you want to actually understand Vegas's message.
House does seem to take a happy middle ground between the two and could be that third system. He sees and avoids the worst problems in both, as the video points out. For Vegas itself I reckon he's definitely the best option presented. He's essentially an imortal, less violent/"evil" version of Caesar, which are the legions two big problems.
Though as others point out he's not as infallible as he acts. His emotional hatred of the BoS and failure to predict Benny's betrayel are the most obvious departures from an entirely practical and forward thinking autocrat. His inability to understand the little picture deserves a mention.
Frankly none of the options are perfect.
Sic semper tyrannis
it means 'thus always to tyrants'
Edward Sallow was just a man.
And now he's fertilizer. And so is his Legion. Which I guess is technically good for the wasteland.
Ave, true to gardens. lmao
Napoléon Bonaparte well he isn’t oppressing much of anything because he’s too busy being dead
Napoléon Bonaparte Lol no. The Legion is the same, just much more overtly terrible than the NCR. Anyway, at least the NCR is open to reform and betterment. Only betterment that will happen under the Legion is coups and disgusting debauchery.
when you showed the books that Caesar was referencing one of them just said " The Total War " could you please specify, as there are enumerable books with very similar titles (most of them having something to do with Warhammer).
So as it's clear it wasn't Hegel, I started by looking up German writers with works of that title, and the thing that came up is either the work of a German (or really Prussian) general and writer named Carl von Clausewitz who wrote a book called Vom Kriege (or "On War") about his experiences in the Napoleonic wars, and the book was said to utilize a Hegelian dialectical approach to military analysis, and it's apparently one of the most important treatises on military strategy, so it wouldn't be surprising if it was actually that one given that it coined the idea of "absolute war", *but* there's also a later memoir by German general Erich Ludendorff who wrote about his time in WWI under the title Der totale Krieg (The Total War), which obviously has the same title as the book in question. However, Clausewitz was more of a contemporary to Hegel, so I don't know if maybe the other one got thrown in there or what, but that's all I could find. Haven't been able to find a copy of Der totale Krieg to read in English, but that could very well be it, as it supposedly details his theory regarding Total War. Interestingly, he died in 1937 right before WWII and was not a fan of Hitler's at the time of death, and gave explicit deathbed wishes not to have a state funeral organized by him. They did anyway, but Hitler didn't give a eulogy.
Sorry for the long comment, but I was wondering about this too and you're the only other person mentioning it as far as I can see.
@@Cheyne_TetraMFG thanks, from me too
Paul Hoffmann glad you got something out of it! 🙂
Honestly it’s a very pacific and extremely well put together mixture of both that needs to be done by someone willing to spend ever single waking hour of his entire life stressed out making sure every single solitary detail it absolutely perfect and that is next to impossible to find
I like Caesar's Legion for reasons you explained in this video, but I also think they are a little too harsh upon people. Maybe a combination of NCR and Caesar's Legion would be the best nation for the post apocalypse world.
Which is the *Republic of Dave*
My ideal ending for FNV is that NCR wins, but learns valuable lessons from the war, and the virtues of collective discipline. The Courier integrates the Mojave into the NCR, but asserts themselves as governor, and is able to reconcile the disparate factions, via their services to them, and gaining their trust & acceptance.
So, for the tl;dr crowd - Caesar is good for the wasteland not in his own right, but as someone for EVERYONE ELSE to point at and say "Don't be that guy"?
I have a theory that Cesar's legion came from New Vegas's Cesar's palace
Omg yea!
Crazando anonymous it all makes sense now!
That's a good catch TBH. Never occurred to me before but it makes sense.
Caesar grew up with the Followers, so he's an educated man. I think it's likely he read history books and became infatuated with Rome. He also uses the same legionary ranks of the Roman empire.
Yeah there is ZERO need to speculate, his entire backstory of how he got to where he is is known
What is said:
"Ave, true to Caesar
Underscore that is true
To me each faction represents the greater philosophical issue with all the factions in which try to fill the power vacuum of the wasteland.
Ceasar was too focused on the past to look to the future (philosophically not strategically)
NCR was too busy with the present to concern itself with the mistakes of the past.
House was always fixated on the future, failing countless times to concern himself with the present.
All of these factions fall to these issues depending on what the courier tips the scales on.
Ceasar and the dam/dealing with his cancer. NCR and worrying to much about the politics/weaponry to notice their leader was in obvious harm. House and Benny/The Courier.
Ulysses perfectly explains this issue with his analogy to which flag you wear. It's all symbols. What matters most is what we leave behind for the future.
Which in turn, is the perfect metaphor for FNV qnd its place in the Fallout series.
"Some of the slave girls are beautiful."
*jerks himself to tears in his basement as CHAD NCR Fat Man's everyone into submission.*
The answer is probably a mix of all the factions. You need Caesar's ruthlessness for dealing with raiders and hostile threats, you need the NCR's treatment of it's citizen, you need the Brotherhood of Steel's trepidation and control over technologies, the Kings influence/protection over the destitute and lower classes, and finally Mr House's ambitions, innovations and planning.
The tragedy of the series's tagline, "war never changes", isn't that conflict is inevitable or bloodshed is bad. Those things are obvious. But the cyclical nature of war means no real advancement can be made. There is a balance that could be achieved through co operation, but all factions are too devoted to their own ideologies to stop warring. War never changes because people won't let it change.
Well, its not like China was a democracy now was it?
Additionally, the NCR is a democracy that's going down the drain only because of the Legion and its own corruption. But like democracies, new leaders can be elected. So, once the current president gets deposed or his term ends, then someone with Tandi's ideologies can step in.
Spider Psycho_ like tandi? The one that was in power for 52 years? Those were some sound elections man...sure... Sure...
+Stoik
Tandi was in power for 52 years because she was being constantly elected for 52 years.
More accurate title: Why smoking crack is good
Typical profligate
Perfect
Literally, because living a life fails itself and we see it around
smokin crack is hegelian dialectics xD
I'd like to think that after all he's been through, and after the events of all the DLC's, the Courier will be the best option. He has seen both sides of the coin, Legion AND the NCR, He met all factions and learned all that is good and all that is bad about them. He has a means to control (Mister House's Securitrons and nukes of the divide (given that he never launched the one The Other Courier tried to launch)). He has both a good credit within all the small factions of the Mojave, and the way to control them. Not limited by the philosophy of the old world like the NCR and the Legion, he's determined to build a society that THIS world needs, driven by his natural will to do so and the guilt of what he's done in the Divide before being shot by Benny.
The courier would rather befriend a fraction than destroy it, he finds the consensus first and fires shots later.
Mister House may have long term plans on humanity, but we all know hot it turned out when he planned shit the last time (especially The Courier) and the time before that.
Caesar might think that enslaving small communities is the way to go, but when the person that held it all together is gone those small communities are bound to rise and demand independence or try to rule the whole empire even!
The NCR might think highly of democracy but tell people of Nipton all about the "safety" of being under NCR's protection, which is just a big illusion! Constant miscommunication a bureaucracy are what's killing them and just about anyone with brains not to listen to their propaganda knows that.
In my honest opinion I believe that an almost perfect faction for the wasteland would be one that would be governed by constitutional monarchism. The constitution this faction's monarch would abide to would be the pre-war American constitution essentially making this faction a mix of the NCR and Caesar's Legion having the best of both worlds
You just described the Enclave
Except America's constitution is very easy to abuse, it leaves out laws that actually preserve a culture, all it is is a libertarian's wet dream. Such will bring about demoralization since everyone is just "live and let live" as demonstrated by the current U.S. citizens, and opinions will easily sway and get emotional, making something like a monarchy impossible for such a nation. If you want a constitutional monarchy, the constitution will have to be something new, something that establishes a set culture and morality, and actually preserves it.
@@firstnamelastname3173 The issue with your statement, as I will not argue with you the real life problems you pointed out with the idea of Libertarians "wet dream" because you simply don't get it, is the fact that the US in Fallout basically became a dictatorship and we don't have much idea what that America is like. A lot of players forget this so the NCR is actually MUCH different that Fallout United States but ironically much closer to the real United State. So we have no idea if the NCR is copying the US Constitution at all in spirit or in law. The US Constitution job isn't to preserve culture what so ever, I have no idea how the hell you're coming up with that conclusion. Because even things that would be outlawed by default by the Constitution like slavery (and yes I am aware of the irony of what I just said) would have to argue that slavery is a cultural ethos. As example. The Constitution is to set a law of what the US government cannot do, the people make the culture, these two do not meet at all. This is one of the reasons why Church and State are not legally binding to each other because while I do not agree that religion equals culture, it does play a part of that. And since the US is Christian dominate, Christianity if left unchecked in US law conflict and would destroy the Constitution.
@Panagiotis Stavropoulos. The issue with a Constitutional Monarchy that I find issue with is why create a dictator and restrict their power to match the people that would conclusively be a stale mate that would be nothing done? A true democracy which doesn't exist is far more effective than that.
Others: See-zer (Caesar)
True Legion player's: Kye-zar (Caesar)
Kai-zar is actually the correct Latin pronunciation for the word.
@@TheOutcastSide actually it's pronounce KAE-sar with an S (somewhat like the spanish spoken in europe) and the KAE (not kai) is stressed.
You mention this now? Where was this when I was choosing between NCR and legion😤
forget what he is saying, it is a bunch of bullshit, an independent new vegas that have good relationship with the ncr is the most logical and long term effective path to take
legion is a self destructive, barbarian, raping and pillaging faction, nothing justifies it's crimes
Lucas Melo I only ever sided with the ncr or just didn't complete the playthrough
You're forgetting Independent and House, which are both superior options to those two.
Yes man's path, all the way!
my sequoia have bullets with your name written alexandra
Nice. Not to say the storytellers 3rd and 4th season wasn't good. They were and I hope to see more. But this is great as well. Keep it up ShoddyCast.
id like to see storyteller in caesar"s legion
Adrian Bittman I think he'd actually like it there, according to lore, the legion-owned territories are actually pretty safe and the citizens are well taken care of.
Ncr wants taxes legion wants slaves if not followed ill take the legion for 500😂
I can't imagine any argument that justifies slavery.
Yeah imo this video really only talks about the theories. In reality, why would you choose an imperialistic, self harming, unsustainable and unstable society over a systemic order, just because of MuH hEgELiaN dIaLeCtiCs
The argument is that society has been dumped into the lowest of the low, a dark age, destroyed societies can only be rebuild from the backs of slaves and thus is justifiable to use them to get humanity out of this dark age
damn, how could i not know that the most effective and efficient way for humanity to progress is through unsustainable slave manpower instead of mutually beneficial trade of expertise that people can specialize in.
NCR made a republic with systemized logistics, stable economy, railroad tracks that spans cities, schools, standing army, and many more. I didn't see legion doing the same on the east.
@@Enseeyar
The Pitt in Fallout 3 makes a good argument for slavery as it is necessary for order, and has reignited the industry of Pittsburgh, and unlike the slavery of the Legion is used to rebuild instead of conquer.
@@sylviethetg7598 but the pitt is a raider congregation in a limited space. It only shows how slavery can be used to solve immediate problems in an isolated locations with iittle to no strategic goals in mind. Mojave is a big area with sprawling communities and should be treated as a society not a small organization in a single factory.
consider this classic development steps. NCR is developed because soldiers kill off raider and patrol trade routes. Families who only grow grains now can trade with iron, steel, and money to improve their lives. More concentration of wealth means more people, and more people increase manpower to rebuild. With development in security, people can farm without concern of getting murdered and sacked in the middle of the night. Professions like artisans, builders, scribes, and other things that require food but didn't produce food can develop because of new surplus of grain from this security. with these new professions, education, research, infrastructure, and many more can be developed.
The opposite happens with legion's stupid ways. Young men are forced to become soldiers, and the rest was enslaved. this grand slave army can only be fed with continous raiding on CIVILIZED settlements. and what of the slaves? forced to grow food, they cannot take care of themselves nor fight for the betterment of their kind. Without great number of army the slaves would revolt, and without great number slaves the army would starve. This is exactly the vicious cycle that happens in ancient sparta that doomed their "civilizations".
You could argue that this is only temporary measure, but it is naive hopeful thinking that men with power in legion's hierarchy would be so willingful to let go of their slaves (source of their power) without some sort of civil war. Besides, the NCR way is proven to be safer, better, more humane, and more promising.
TLDR: fuck slavery, objectively speaking, the system is incredibly flawed and fragile. Subjectively speaking as a human, it is hypocritical to me to endorse slavery if i, myself, wouldn't want to be enslaved
There's a bug when you turn in dog tags to Decanus Serverus at Cottonwood Cove. You turn them in 5 at a time for food items and it only takes like 30 or so to be "Liked" and you can get the key to their safe house. (Rat Slayer rifle at "Broc Flower" cave to sneak attack NCR early on. At "Camp Forlorn Hope" - troops have extra tags) Also the drop boxes they give you make them the best faction to join. Happy hunting.
There isn't a right answer to what a society should look like. Human Nature varies to much. In the case of Fallout tho an Authoritarian state seems to be the only answer to maintain some sense of safety.
ultimately though, a choice must be made.
and like you said, a firm grip is needed in such a time, and Caesar was more then willing to rise to power. he may have done horrific things but most men do when building an empire. examples must be set, power enforced. Caesar has a plan, and acts on it with stern and devout principles read from actual cases in history.
I sided with him, and I am glad I did. albeit I never cared for the Slavery and Squalor but again, Brutality is necessary for breaking a populace, which comes with the Raping and Pillaging in the name of Conquest.
When I first beat the game I went the independent route. I don't think many of the things Caesar did was necessary however when the vast majority of the inhabitants of a place are drug addicted raiders you have to not only stop the culture surrounding it but make sure the populace will respect the rule of law, by any means necessary (at least at home where the Society wants to survive). I do think we could go back to a democratic model (and maybe even get a culture that complements it rather than fights it like ours) but that is just not possible in the current climate. The outcome is the NCR, an inefficient and power hungry organization that acts independent from the subjects they rule.
Albert Clockwork But the lawlessness of the Wild West didn’t require an authoritarian state. It requires the consensual union of all people to maintain stability, essentially a confederacy.
Just so. Every end has it's ups and downs, unlike FO3, where you become power-armor Jesus or "If you're so evil, eat this kitten." man.
Why does there have to be a society? Once it falls apart why bother rebuilding it?
New Vegas has so much depth in the philosophy terms
The legion the voice saying the old world failed and we live in the different world from the old
Which is a valid point the wasteland is full of raiders and you get the feeling that across the land the legion controls a caravaner can cross the stretch without ever meeting one
Not only raiders savageness ignorce they r literally living in the primal ages with all of its elements they dont even speak english anymore the legion will bring civilization to their lands
@@frumentarii6542 So they can kill and enslave in a more orderly fashion?
@@MarquisLeary34 its not only about that i mean its like the ancient rome what they conquer will be absorbed to the idea of rome before rome Europe was literally land of savages and barbar tribes whom knew nothing expect savagery in their lives and when the rome conquered them they took something with little importance and gave em civilized actin thinking and speaking like the gaul and British isles and spaina after rome fell their territory divided and the land of once savages and lawlessness warring tribals now formed countrys and government & great armies & ... aka civilization and they all had to thank rome for that to happen so a little slavery and killing is nothing compared to what they get after and the situation in the wasteland is kinda same but much more vicious and wild if America wants to survive and get away from brutally going on in the wasteland for 200+ year's and be great again the Cesar legion is a must so for that very reason i say. AVE TRUE TO CEASAR LEGION 🐂🐂🐂🔥
@@frumentarii6542 A little slavery is nothing. Tell that to the women your Legion abducted and violated. You're demanding that innocent people be butchered and enslaved (except for Nipton, they had it coming), people who didn't ask for your Rome, do so because it might be better 200 years from now? Fuck that noise. The House Always Wins. Independent New Vegas Forever.
@@MarquisLeary34 house only cares for new vegas what about the rest of thr people?
it might be good, buuuuut who can resist Yes Man
"As long as there are those who remember what was, there will always be those who cannot accept what can be." -Thanos
Life in a post-nuke world like Fallout can't have either NCR or Ceasers without bloodshed between these two due to the fact they see each other as "the enemy of existence itself". The one thing that MAY balance it out would be something that allows individualize the people through forcing groups of people to be integrated with each-other. Though this MAY lead to bloodshed, it would allow the destruction the individualistic nature of the NCR while not becoming something that would fall apart upon the death of its leader like the Ceasers Legions.
The best sorta government I COULD think of would be something that uses tech to insure the people are not actually "free", but that they believe they are. In the end, there is no good option in a Post-Apocalyptic world like Fallout.
House represents an interesting opportunity, on account of his nigh immortality, to have a genuine philosopher king, or as close to a philosopher king, as one can. At this point in my life, I'd be liable to hand the reigns of governing to him, but the concern is that House would simply create a pocket of civilization rather than extending that civilization to others who genuinely need it.
House's flaws are deeper than that. He's incredibly charismatic and puts on a good front, but I think it's pretty clear that all the decades he's spent with his robots have turned him into a bit of a robot himself. House cares about progress for the sake of progress. He's become so detached from other people that he looks at and interacts with the entire world around him much like a child does with a set of legos. This is the underlying reason why his actions won't involve the spreading of "civilization." All he cares about is seeing achievement. He'll doom thousands of people to abject poverty, abuse, and destruction just so that he can see a handful of others get successfully shipped off to his new space colony. Keep in mind that when the guy realized he needed some actual human beings to run the strip that he went with 3 depraved tribes of warriors, slavers, and cannibals. His morals will come second to his ideals every single time. House is exactly the kind of person that caused the Great War in the first place.
Thesis:NCR
AntiThesjs: Legion
Synthesis: Jacobstown
Me: * Laughs in Powder Gangers *
GOD EMPEROR ROBERT HOUSE
Yes! House is best ending!
With a GOOD Courier as his right hand man/woman ^^
Afro John TriHard 7
In a post-apocalyptic world, I don't think a full democracy like that which is present in the NCR is the right way to go. When your world has been completely shattered and its residents become dazed and confused from the sudden destruction, the most important thing is stability. Everything else, including ethics and morality, comes later.
its sad the so much content was cut from the legion story side
AVE CAESAR
Ave, true to Caeser!
Move along
Brotherhood Paladin, here. Mind if I take any tech you may have?
FUCK CAESAR!
Hail Caesar, FUCK NCR
Smoking on that legion pack 🥱. Caesar and his larpers ain’t shit. NCR & proud.
any true historian knows how based Caesar’s Legion is in the grand scheme of things in the current situation of the fallout universe. People have their modern rose tinted glasses on but fail to understand how raw life is and how it isn’t suppose to be fair. It’s the price of a working civilization as opposed to flinging dirt. Choose which you prefer.
My plan for the wasteland would be to install a council of education people(like in the institute) who control the wasteland. As Lawinforcement I would use an army similar to the NCR because controlling people who fight for you with fear doesn't usually works. As Weapons for the army are just conventional most technology would be used for civil purposes and no weapons of mass destruction like the NCR has! Thank you for reading
But this councils reach would be very limited. They would some kind army or force to do the enforcing, anf therefore they will need a kind of ideology. Whats more, which laws are enforced and which aren't? the council? Just because its a group making choices.doesn't mean it wont become corrupt
Glad I stumbled upon this video, I enjoy things that dare me to think,
I never actually looked at it from that perspective... It's a necessary evil. Something that will bring progress. I've been thinking about what the world of Fallout would be like and should be run like. And that's a whole other bag of worms...
Makes me wonder what would be ideal for our world as it is now...
Very interesting video and points (: keep it up.
Yes the slave empire is such a necessary evil. Please just ignore the corrupt but semi modern state of the NCR. You know where they have equal rights for women. Where they have power armor. And while a corrupt democracy is leagues better then living in a shitting cosplaying Roman Empire.
Well, based on the actual story if you take out the courier. The legion is going to win 3 out of 4 times. Because it required the courier to intervention to get the NCR to win.
But with the courier intervention on behalf of the legion this can have effects based on who the courier is, is it male or female? The hoover damn can either be won and with easy thanks to the courier, or the courier can convince the legato to go back east, but if the courier is a female it opens their eyes to women status as Caesar commands them to let you do as you please, and if you win the battle of hoover dam.. the female courier is printed on gold coins as their currency. Meaning a cultural change will happen within the legion. Always that was the most interesting playthrough
To add to what you said. House, the man that guessed the apocalypse within a day, says that the Legion has a 70% chance of winning the Second battle of Hover Dam.
Now that I've actually paid attention to the legion, it seems they only hurt and enslave people who had it coming. Powder gangers, raiders etc. I agree with them.
Yeah I guess all those tribes they eradicated “deserved it”. I guess next you’ll be telling me how women are lesser then men and “deserve” to be enslaved.
They're gay as hell tho wearing skirts ceasar has a gang of super fisty boys in his tent all fisting each other being a legion stan is an easy way to come out of the closet
I don't understand how this makes any sense considering the Legion was created a while before anyone in the region even knew what the NCR was. So either Caesar created an overcorrection to something he didn't know existed, or he just created the faction hoping that some under-correction to the Old World ideology would pop up to fight him soon.
Caesar's Legion works - but only as long as Caesar lives (e.g. the ending sequences validate this).
Mr. House works - but requires that one become an employee themselves if any personal benefit is to experienced.
The NCR works (some of the best ending sequences) - but the overtones are obvious and the fixes temporary at best.
Independence... may or may not work - and is completely reliant upon the choices made by the Courier.
If anything, this game is stating that past ways of thinking will always lead us into the past... And that for anything truly new to arrive, it will require us to continually *deny* our own desires to make the past our present (yet again).
IMHO, Independence is the only true ending that has any room for things to be different. Make no mistake though: it isn't a bed of roses nor is it the "happy ending" (e.g. The Followers getting overwhelmed by the chaos and the BoS Mojave Chapter becoming mere bandits if they survive) - it is merely the ending that allows for the possibility of a future that isn't simply a repetition of the past...
...Or the Courier becomes another despot and the status quo is maintained.
It really could go either way - and it all depends on you! ;-)
The Legion worships Mars, not Caesar- the problem isn't that the Legion won't follow whoever is in charge after Caesar dies, it's that none of the potential heirs to him are really worthy to lead the Legion. Lanius is a legendary tactician and warrior, but these traits make him a terrible leader- violence is the only solution he sees, and he'll lead the Legion to a violent end. Vulpes is extremely cunning and smart, probably as much as Caesar himself, but he lacks the charisma and commanding presence that Caesar has, and his reliance on underhanded methods doesn't make him very popular with other legionnaires, Lanius himself a clear example. But, what if someone from outside the Legion came along, especially a woman, and proved that she had the cunning to match Caesar, the honor to command respect from her peers, and the strength to silence any dissent?
Though I prefer Mr house and NCR endings but the Legion is NOT doomed to fail
It definitely is, Caesar was so much of a megalomaniac that he made the entire legion a cult to himself, no successor would ever be able to take control of the legion after the momentum of avenging Caesar’s death is gone. They are all just glorified raiders that will collapse eventually.
The Enclave is the best you MO-RON
*shot Autumn, blew up the rig and convinced Eden to self destruct* you were saying? :P
@cinna bananabeats hanging on to a dead system that deserved to die for experimenting on innocents who survived a nuclear apocalypse.
Indeed.
@@ZhaoYun320 oh yeah and what enclave do to those innocent people? GENOCIDE
0:20 on that picture he looks like a smug and older Buzz Lightyear.
I think the best thing is simply the most qualified rule instead of the most popular. Ceasar was qualified to rule that's why the legion was so successful until he died. So instead of a democratic election, have the smartest and most competent people rule the government and have a system of checks and balances to make sure theres no foul play.
Hello, BASED Department?
Leigion: past
NCR: present
Mr House: future
Yes Man: Transcendent
@@thomasbplank The Republic of Dave: Godly
Gary: Gaaaarrryyy!
Retribution! RETRIBUTION!
Followers are the best faction IMO, a shame they don't get their own ending. A society built on the free exchange of ideas and the value of education is based.
also ua-cam.com/video/oLTuysEzqhQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=ShawnJames-Topic
also really love their punk aesthetic, wish it was more prominent in new vegas. I want my green mohawks and leather jackets back.
The great war itself represents a swing of the pendulum. But what Hegel and Caesar missed is that the pendulum doesn't just swing in one dimension, it swings in two.
Okay, and a pendulum never swings back as far as it does the first time. It's a figure of speech more than an example..
@@BudMasta >complains about it being just a figure of speech
>totally misses my turn on the figure of speech
what do you want from me? a literary analysis class?
@@BudMasta google a Foucault pendulum
The Enclave rules
Wesley Bitencourt Dos Santos those NCR. Just wanta be Americans only the true America can rebuild. Colonel Autumn is a genius with harsh methods like everyone in fallout.
Wesley Bitencourt Dos Santos ALL HAIL THE ENCLAVE!!
Hail.
Wesley Bitencourt Dos Santos Enclave and Mr House should team up am i right?
Brotherhood of Steel rules!
Little known fact: Caesar also has a vitriolic hatred for technology for a very personal reason: A chance encounter with what he at first thought was a tiny Securitron.
Only it wasn't a RobCo Securitron.
It was a Hyperion CL4P-TP.
And it _Wouldn't. Stop. DANCING._
Absolutely psychotic video.
Too bad I killed the whole legion tribe
My camp McCarron looks like the catacombs under Paris
You did a good work
RETRIBUTION
Wait 3 days....they'll be back
“B-b-but… LE FACISM BAD!”
The legion is even worse than Fascism lol
Spolier ahead:
What's funny is that it doesn't matter now with the tv show, vault tec will nuke anyone whom is to powerfull and seen.