Pretty good! I almost forgot how rangers can ignore feat requirements. This is definitely going to round out my build for Valerie: 2Monk, 2Freebooter, 5TowerShield, 10Stalwart defender.
Finally found a good bruiser build.Seriously more than 80% of the sns builds are either tanking,supporting/off-tanking,or just a glass canon gimmick.Glad I found one that does a good mix of both. My only question is if scimitar is the only proper weapon choice.
He probably chose scimitars because of the crit-range and availability, but you really shouldn't worry about that, unless you're playing on the hardest difficulties.
OR: Build Sword, Board & Bite (*Tri-Weapon User, YES, Triple wielder, 9 attacks+ on full) Tiefling > Motherless, Str 19 (17+2) Dex 16 Con 14 Int 7 (9-2) Wis 14 (12+2) Cha 7 All + Attributes to Strength Use: Scimitar+5, Heavy Spiked Shield+5, Mythril Breast-Plate+5 Javelin+5 & Heavy Shield+5 slot2, Composite Longbow +5 slot 3, slot4 is empty/open @Level 20: Freebooter 10, Fighter 6, Vivisectionist 1, Stalwart Defender 1, Archaeologist 2 Level Class Feat 1 Freebooter (1) Weapon Focus (Scimitar) 2 Freebooter (2) Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Freebooter (3) Shield Bash 4 Freebooter (4) 5 Freebooter (5) Power Attack 6 Freebooter (6) Improved TWF 7 Freebooter (7) Cornugon Smash 8 Freebooter (8) 9 Freebooter (9) Improved Critical (Scimitar) 10 Freebooter (10) Greater TWF 11 Fighter (1) Shield Master, Bashing Finish 12 Fighter (2) Critical Focus 13 Fighter (3) Dazzling Display 14 Fighter (4) Shatter Defenses 15 Vivi (1) Dodge (or Toughness) 16 Fighter (5) Weapon Specialization (Scimitar) 17 Arch (1) Intimidating Prowess 18 Fighter (6) Toughness (or Dodge) 19 Stal Def (1) Combat Trick - Combat Reflexes 20 Arch (2) Double Slice * Scimitar + Bite is better than a human using an Estoc as you'd lose 3 bites per full attack, with worse attribute/skill points (-2 to either strength or wisdom, but no -2 intelligence) for 1 used feat for a slightly better base weapon (2d4 vs 1d6) * Dropping 4 Thug levels for: 1 fighter, 2 archaeologist and 1 stalwart defender, give much better results (More: AC, AB, DPR, HP & an awesome "stance") and enemies dont "run away" as often (so you can kill them faster) * In fact we same number of feats on a non-human (but replace "outflank" & "seize the moment", as both are too situational when you really need them, to allow MC'ing into Stalwart Defender 1)
I went with a sword and board because I didn't know what I was doing for my first character I was wondering how I could do it better, I never thought to go ranger My build was 18 strength 17 dex (15+human) 14 con 13 int 7 Wis 7 Cha Fighter all the way Feats 1. Two weapon fighting Shield bash Double slice 2. Power attack 3. Weapon focus (scimitar) 4. Strength, Weapon specialization (scimitar) 5. Shield focus 6. Improved two weapon fighting 7. Cornugon Smash 8. Strength, combat expertise 9. Armor focus (heavy) 10. Hammer the gap 11. Greater two weapon fighting (I had a belt of dex at that point) 12. Strength, Greater weapon specialization 13. Improved Critical 14. Shield master I stopped after 14 I believe.... I'm going off of memory so if you see a feat that shouldn't have been legal then I am probably misremembering something
I think item bonuses don't allow for feats (raising dex with items won't allow feats). If it did, then it completely bypasses restrictions for the strength two weapon fighter. Please confirm on this, it would be very nice to have the option. EDIT: items DO allow feats; they don't give bonus to skill points but otherwise work perfectly; if you want a 2-weapon fighter you can base him entirely on strength and rely on 12 dex + items, if you want a strength character
I'm not a big fan of outflank. I know just about every build uses it, but I don't like to make every NPC take it especially since the NPC party members are trash and I need every feat I can scrap up to make them viable. In that spot I take Shield focus for the extra point of AC or Toughness for the HP boost.
I love the idea of a shield slam pally, but it takes a lot of feats to do well and paladins don't get any bonus feats. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it just wouldn't come online as fast and sacrifices might have to be made.
what ability/feats combo make them running when you intimidate them? I reckon it has something to do with dazzling display and shattered defense but not sure how it works?
one shotting mobs in unfair difficulty ... guess thats really unfair for the enemies rofl, poor guys ... awesome build though .... gonna try that one out next
In all my years of playing table top I've never found Greater-TWF to be worth on any builds. A high level feat, meaning one that's taken at levels 10+, for one attack at -10 (-12 with TWF penalty) seems like it could be used better.
I hear what you're saying, but here is my rationale. 1. As a cRPG this game has more combat per time than any PnP session will, and therefore combat feats have higher relative value than non-combat feats. 2. Shield master makes offhand attacks with a shield extremely accurate. It's been a while since I played but I do remember my shield +AB was considerably higher than my mainhand attacks. If your AB is high enough and target AC low enough, it doesn't matter if it is -5 or -10, you're going to land hits. Ironically it also adds potential damage on the opposite end of the spectrum. Against impossibly high AC, Improved and Greater TWF add two more chances for a nat 20. 3. Improved and Greater TWF are analogous to iterative attacks from high BAB. Your extra attacks at +6/+11 BAB are basically -5/-10 attacks with your main weapon and no one complains about those. A couple of free feats from a class feature is a price I'm willing to pay. 4. While I do try to make builds that are effective, I don't min-max to the point of losing the overall flavor of the concept I'm aiming for. This character was meant to be a beastly frontliner that smashes face with a shield. Adding the TWF feats gave me more shield attacks, which was the core concept of the character in the first place. I appreciate the feedback! I've got some great build ideas for wrath of the righteous soon. I hope you check them out!
I was wondering: isn't Hedwirg strictly better? It's true that you don't get full two weapon progression but you aren't missing much as the extra attacks from improved and greater two weapon fighting come at higher penalties; also, with Hedwirg I think it's best to accept this limitation and develop as a fighter to the fullest - you end up with a bunch of extra feats; alternative is to start climbing into either a slayer or a ranger but I feel that the reduced feat progression is weaker that way. Note that Hedwirg gets the highest attribute spread in the game at 32, although he wastes points in charisma (his wisdom, intelligence and charisma could do with rebalancing, depending on where you want to take him). 12 wis is ideal for a fighter, 14 with a dwarf. Even with that uninspired allocation, he still retains more USEFUL points. If you can get by the lackluster optimization, you are still left with MORE of a combatant than making your own on 25 points.
Sure Hedwirg might be statistically optimal, but then you are stuck with the name Hedwirg, the "Melvin" of RPG names. (My apologies to all the Melvins out there.)
500k+ gp is very easily possible once you get past Chapter 4 I believe since a lot of the enemies you fight will drop magical weapons that you most likely won't need yourself.
Take 3 points off STR and put into Con. Remove the 2 critical feats and go a couple levels into Stalwart Defender to get Defensive Stance and Internal Fortitude. This gives you immune to nauseated and sickened which really suck and also gives you +2 attack/damage and dodge bonuses and another +1 AC Bonus. Is this worth not having good critical? Yea if you want a Bruiser. Also get Dodge. The extra +4 AC I think will really be a passable tank. Also get 3 points into mobility so you get the extra bonus point of dodge bonus when fighting defensively which this build should of had anyways but I guess this is all offense so no need really but why not huh its free lol So that is +5 AC +2 attack and damage rolls AND more HP for just giving up critical focus and improved critical although you lose +2 on damage modifier defensive stance gives it back and don't forget fighting defensively in combat either. A much more durable character now but you may have to juggle these levels around a bit I have not looked at all the details.
Absolutely INSANE to put 12 CON on any first-liner especially in order to bump WIS just for Will Saves and CHA for Persuasion. Persuasion isn't even that vital to Dazzling Performance and so on after a little while. Absolutely INSANE to lose a dozen feats by going Ranger just to get THFx3 which you can get with fighter just by putting on a belt. Fighter FULL 20 Level will always 100% smash this build. STR 18 DEX 15 CON 16 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 10
Adapted for Amiri Human Str:16 Dex:13 Con:16 Int:10 Wis:12 Cha: 10 Level Class Feat 1 Barbarian (1) Exotic Prof (Bastard Sword), Toughness 2 Freebooter(1) 3 Freebooter(2) Shield Bash, (1h& Shield) Two-Weapon Fighting 4 Freebooter(3) Dex 5 Freebooter(4) Power Attack 6 Freebooter(5) 7 Freebooter(6) Cornugon Smash, Improved TWF 8 Freebooter(7) Str 9 Freebooter(8) Outflank 10 Freebooter(9) 11 Freebooter(10) Greater TWF, Shield Master, 12 Fighter(1) Weap Focus Bastard Sword or Scimitar, Str 13 Fighter(2) Bashing Finish, Dazzling Display 14 Fighter(3) 15 Fighter(4) Improved Critical, Shatter Defenses 16 Fighter(5) WT(Heavy Blades), Str 17 Thug(1) Intimidating Prowess , 18 Thug(2) Critical Focus 19 Thug(3) Tiring Critical 20 Thug(4) Exhausting Critical Str It appears you cant get a 2nd attack with a shield when she is using her ginormous bastard sword but you can equip a shield and still get the AC bonus. which I assume is a bug.
I love it. I'm gonna try to make a Cap'n America build using much of this.
Pretty good! I almost forgot how rangers can ignore feat requirements. This is definitely going to round out my build for Valerie: 2Monk, 2Freebooter, 5TowerShield, 10Stalwart defender.
Finally found a good bruiser build.Seriously more than 80% of the sns builds are either tanking,supporting/off-tanking,or just a glass canon gimmick.Glad I found one that does a good mix of both.
My only question is if scimitar is the only proper weapon choice.
He probably chose scimitars because of the crit-range and availability, but you really shouldn't worry about that, unless you're playing on the hardest difficulties.
OR:
Build
Sword, Board & Bite (*Tri-Weapon User, YES, Triple wielder, 9 attacks+ on full)
Tiefling > Motherless, Str 19 (17+2) Dex 16 Con 14 Int 7 (9-2) Wis 14 (12+2) Cha 7
All + Attributes to Strength
Use: Scimitar+5, Heavy Spiked Shield+5, Mythril Breast-Plate+5
Javelin+5 & Heavy Shield+5 slot2, Composite Longbow +5 slot 3, slot4 is empty/open
@Level 20: Freebooter 10, Fighter 6, Vivisectionist 1, Stalwart Defender 1, Archaeologist 2
Level Class Feat
1 Freebooter (1) Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
2 Freebooter (2) Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Freebooter (3) Shield Bash
4 Freebooter (4)
5 Freebooter (5) Power Attack
6 Freebooter (6) Improved TWF
7 Freebooter (7) Cornugon Smash
8 Freebooter (8)
9 Freebooter (9) Improved Critical (Scimitar)
10 Freebooter (10) Greater TWF
11 Fighter (1) Shield Master, Bashing Finish
12 Fighter (2) Critical Focus
13 Fighter (3) Dazzling Display
14 Fighter (4) Shatter Defenses
15 Vivi (1) Dodge (or Toughness)
16 Fighter (5) Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)
17 Arch (1) Intimidating Prowess
18 Fighter (6) Toughness
(or Dodge)
19 Stal Def (1) Combat Trick - Combat Reflexes
20 Arch (2) Double Slice
* Scimitar + Bite is better than a human using an Estoc as you'd lose 3 bites per full attack, with worse attribute/skill points (-2 to either strength or wisdom, but no -2 intelligence) for 1 used feat for a slightly better base weapon (2d4 vs 1d6)
* Dropping 4 Thug levels for: 1 fighter, 2 archaeologist and 1 stalwart defender, give much better results (More: AC, AB, DPR, HP & an awesome "stance") and enemies dont "run away" as often (so you can kill them faster)
* In fact we same number of feats on a non-human (but replace "outflank" & "seize the moment", as both are too situational when you really need them, to allow MC'ing into Stalwart Defender 1)
Very cool idea I like it. It's been a long time since I played the game, what do the 2 levels of archaeologist give you?
I went with a sword and board because I didn't know what I was doing for my first character I was wondering how I could do it better, I never thought to go ranger
My build was
18 strength
17 dex (15+human)
14 con
13 int
7 Wis
7 Cha
Fighter all the way
Feats
1. Two weapon fighting
Shield bash
Double slice
2. Power attack
3. Weapon focus (scimitar)
4. Strength, Weapon specialization (scimitar)
5. Shield focus
6. Improved two weapon fighting
7. Cornugon Smash
8. Strength, combat expertise
9. Armor focus (heavy)
10. Hammer the gap
11. Greater two weapon fighting (I had a belt of dex at that point)
12. Strength, Greater weapon specialization
13. Improved Critical
14. Shield master
I stopped after 14 I believe.... I'm going off of memory so if you see a feat that shouldn't have been legal then I am probably misremembering something
I think item bonuses don't allow for feats (raising dex with items won't allow feats). If it did, then it completely bypasses restrictions for the strength two weapon fighter. Please confirm on this, it would be very nice to have the option.
EDIT: items DO allow feats; they don't give bonus to skill points but otherwise work perfectly; if you want a 2-weapon fighter you can base him entirely on strength and rely on 12 dex + items, if you want a strength character
I'm not a big fan of outflank. I know just about every build uses it, but I don't like to make every NPC take it especially since the NPC party members are trash and I need every feat I can scrap up to make them viable. In that spot I take Shield focus for the extra point of AC or Toughness for the HP boost.
nice build man! 👌🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I really want to see a build like this on a Paladin pure raw damage.
Nice build!
I love the idea of a shield slam pally, but it takes a lot of feats to do well and paladins don't get any bonus feats. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it just wouldn't come online as fast and sacrifices might have to be made.
what ability/feats combo make them running when you intimidate them? I reckon it has something to do with dazzling display and shattered defense but not sure how it works?
It's been a while but I believe it was power attack/cornugon smash and a dip in thug which makes shaken enemies frightened
Interesting, thanks.
More? ;)
Redid this build as a Slayer/paladin/thug. It is my murder bot.
one shotting mobs in unfair difficulty ... guess thats really unfair for the enemies rofl, poor guys ... awesome build though .... gonna try that one out next
Why the scimitar? It hits a like a wet noodle
In all my years of playing table top I've never found Greater-TWF to be worth on any builds. A high level feat, meaning one that's taken at levels 10+, for one attack at -10 (-12 with TWF penalty) seems like it could be used better.
I hear what you're saying, but here is my rationale.
1. As a cRPG this game has more combat per time than any PnP session will, and therefore combat feats have higher relative value than non-combat feats.
2. Shield master makes offhand attacks with a shield extremely accurate. It's been a while since I played but I do remember my shield +AB was considerably higher than my mainhand attacks. If your AB is high enough and target AC low enough, it doesn't matter if it is -5 or -10, you're going to land hits. Ironically it also adds potential damage on the opposite end of the spectrum. Against impossibly high AC, Improved and Greater TWF add two more chances for a nat 20.
3. Improved and Greater TWF are analogous to iterative attacks from high BAB. Your extra attacks at +6/+11 BAB are basically -5/-10 attacks with your main weapon and no one complains about those. A couple of free feats from a class feature is a price I'm willing to pay.
4. While I do try to make builds that are effective, I don't min-max to the point of losing the overall flavor of the concept I'm aiming for. This character was meant to be a beastly frontliner that smashes face with a shield. Adding the TWF feats gave me more shield attacks, which was the core concept of the character in the first place.
I appreciate the feedback! I've got some great build ideas for wrath of the righteous soon. I hope you check them out!
I cant seem to find where the Mods are at in steam. any help please?
There are no mods on steam for this game. They are on a website called "nexusmods"
I was wondering: isn't Hedwirg strictly better? It's true that you don't get full two weapon progression but you aren't missing much as the extra attacks from improved and greater two weapon fighting come at higher penalties; also, with Hedwirg I think it's best to accept this limitation and develop as a fighter to the fullest - you end up with a bunch of extra feats; alternative is to start climbing into either a slayer or a ranger but I feel that the reduced feat progression is weaker that way.
Note that Hedwirg gets the highest attribute spread in the game at 32, although he wastes points in charisma (his wisdom, intelligence and charisma could do with rebalancing, depending on where you want to take him). 12 wis is ideal for a fighter, 14 with a dwarf. Even with that uninspired allocation, he still retains more USEFUL points. If you can get by the lackluster optimization, you are still left with MORE of a combatant than making your own on 25 points.
Sure Hedwirg might be statistically optimal, but then you are stuck with the name Hedwirg, the "Melvin" of RPG names. (My apologies to all the Melvins out there.)
Stuck between this and slayer
How did you get to that point in the game with 455k gold? Does double slice work on non-strength builds?
Yes I believe double slice wil apply your dex bonus to damage if you have weapon finesse or finesse training.
500k+ gp is very easily possible once you get past Chapter 4 I believe since a lot of the enemies you fight will drop magical weapons that you most likely won't need yourself.
Hey i know its a bit late, but what u would change to make it a bit more of an off-tank?
Take 3 points off STR and put into Con. Remove the 2 critical feats and go a couple levels into Stalwart Defender to get Defensive Stance and Internal Fortitude. This gives you immune to nauseated and sickened which really suck and also gives you +2 attack/damage and dodge bonuses and another +1 AC Bonus. Is this worth not having good critical? Yea if you want a Bruiser. Also get Dodge. The extra +4 AC I think will really be a passable tank. Also get 3 points into mobility so you get the extra bonus point of dodge bonus when fighting defensively which this build should of had anyways but I guess this is all offense so no need really but why not huh its free lol So that is +5 AC +2 attack and damage rolls AND more HP for just giving up critical focus and improved critical although you lose +2 on damage modifier defensive stance gives it back and don't forget fighting defensively in combat either. A much more durable character now but you may have to juggle these levels around a bit I have not looked at all the details.
Could you tower shield with this build?
No, you can't make attacks with a tower shield
That was fun. Would like to see your halfling tank build aswell ! =)
Edit: Would Flame warden be good instead of freebooter?
I suppose flame warden could work if they have the weapon and shield fighting style. My only complaint would be the underleveled pet.
how did you get wis to 14?
cause he took 3 points off of Int and that gave him 4 more points to play with
They must have patched something then I cannot make my stats like this at all. @@pinweee7026
What gives the instant lightning?
I know it's been 10 months. But in the video he said his scimitar throws lightning bolts on critical hits.
It's a magical named Scimitar that casts Call Lightning when you critically strike.
I love the build any chance we can see all of his gear? Ever thought of doing builds for the companions we get in game?
Absolutely INSANE to put 12 CON on any first-liner especially in order to bump WIS just for Will Saves and CHA for Persuasion.
Persuasion isn't even that vital to Dazzling Performance and so on after a little while.
Absolutely INSANE to lose a dozen feats by going Ranger just to get THFx3 which you can get with fighter just by putting on a belt.
Fighter FULL 20 Level will always 100% smash this build.
STR 18
DEX 15
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 10
Adapted for Amiri
Human Str:16 Dex:13 Con:16 Int:10 Wis:12 Cha: 10
Level Class Feat
1 Barbarian (1) Exotic Prof (Bastard Sword), Toughness
2 Freebooter(1)
3 Freebooter(2) Shield Bash, (1h& Shield) Two-Weapon Fighting
4 Freebooter(3) Dex
5 Freebooter(4) Power Attack
6 Freebooter(5)
7 Freebooter(6) Cornugon Smash, Improved TWF
8 Freebooter(7) Str
9 Freebooter(8) Outflank
10 Freebooter(9)
11 Freebooter(10) Greater TWF, Shield Master,
12 Fighter(1) Weap Focus Bastard Sword or Scimitar, Str
13 Fighter(2) Bashing Finish, Dazzling Display
14 Fighter(3)
15 Fighter(4) Improved Critical, Shatter Defenses
16 Fighter(5) WT(Heavy Blades), Str
17 Thug(1) Intimidating Prowess ,
18 Thug(2) Critical Focus
19 Thug(3) Tiring Critical
20 Thug(4) Exhausting Critical Str
It appears you cant get a 2nd attack with a shield when she is using her ginormous bastard sword but you can equip a shield and still get the AC bonus. which I assume is a bug.
this build also works for a main character build with falcatas too instead of bastard swords
I only get 20 points to manage when i start the character..?? how do you get 25?
20 points = mercenary. Main character gets 5 extra points
Merc's = 20 points. Main character = 25, use "bag of tricks" mod to fix merc's to starting with 25 points
looks like fun lol