Love how despite being mocked and pressured to end it all in single combat, Rob is not arrogant or stupid enough to not admit he has no chance of winning.
Even if Rob wins by a sheer chance (such as a meteor striking Jamie in the head), Tywin is not going to surrender just because Jamie lost in a duel haha.
I always saw it as a bit of respect on Jamie’s part. He knows that Robb is a good warrior. He knows Robb thinks before he strikes. Robb would have made an amazing knight with Jamie. In some ways, he is like a young Jamie before the corruption spoiled him completely. Robb is no fool. (Except his BIG blunder) he would never fight Jamie one on one. That is suicide and he knows it. It is also a compliment to Jamie in a way. Robb acknowledged that Jamie is the superior fighter of the two
@@Hydorior Considering Robb’s uncle thought he could pull up to the castle and solo the entire royal army and the kings guard to get to Rhaegar, I think Jamie’s response is understandable…😂
I interpreted it as wry disappointment. "He's just like the rest." Jaime is a jaded knight who dreams of knights in shining armor. Of honor and saving lives. But beaten down by the world. I think he saw the possibility of the story book knights in the Starks. A chance for him to be true, too. But when Rob declined, it faded away
@@OliverSierraW got me so pissed. Dude united the north and had the war against teh lanniser practically won. all he had to do was honor some stupid oath and have one of them bum daughers just chill in a castle while smashed the nurse. And his mom didnt freaking warn him of oaths. Ahhh, if only ned was alive. Robb was my guy man...hated that he messed up so badly
Rob to Jaime: "if we battle one on one you'll win, but my army will beat your army" Me: wow hes so honest and honorable Ramsay to John: "if we battle one on one you'll win, but my army will beat your army" Me: what a cowardly twat
The skill difference is much bigger here Jon wasn't swordfight legend even if show overpowered him a bit Rob vs Jaime is basically Mountain vs ser Dontos
The main difference is the circumstance Jamie offered it when he was held captive and had no choice it was Robb's decision but Jon was a free man but he still offered one on one battle
I’d say Robb was always smart but like his father he made one or two crucial errors while everybody and their mother screwed up around him. He should’ve had Gregor’s head on a spike if it wasn’t for his uncle, he would’ve been able to challenge Casterly Rock if it wasn’t for how STUPID Balon was, and he would’ve been able to make up for his mistakes had Catlyn just not have been an idiot. Even still, he by all rights should’ve been able to retreat back to the North since the laws of Guest Right are so sacred that nobody, even those without any shred of honor, are stupid enough to disobey them, at least in the books. However, the Freys allow themselves to be tricked by the promises of House Lannister knowing full well that their new bannermen would treat them the same way they treated the Tully’s and show up late if at all to any fight.
Jamie was trying to bate Rob into a fight thinking Robs age, immaturity, pride and lack of experience would surely push him into fighting. Also thinking Rob couldn’t afford 😅to look bad or afraid in front of his army (the guys). Rob didn’t fall or play into it. It was in that moment Jamie recognized and respected the intelligence of a 16 yr old kid, King Robert Stark ❤
And King but also the son of Ned Stark. You really think Jaime would in the back of his mind know better. Robb isn’t stupid. Plus he had his honor and humility that his father taught him.
People compare this to the Ramsay vs John scene. But Robb had already won the battle against Jaime's army. And he actually fought, he didn't stand from afar.
It doesn't even begin to be a fair offer lmao. Rob is a faction leader. The northener cause essentially lives and dies with him. Jaime, on the other hand, is ultimately just a cog in the Lannister war machine. Rob doesn't really stand to gain anything from ending him aside from emotional satisfaction. edit: accidentally typed in Lancaster instead lmao
Ramsey was smart and had the advantage and could have easily won If the writers were competent and the starks didn't have horses with teleportation powers on their side.
@@klade5031your right jaimes game can only work if people agreed it’s like the guy from the Bolton’s said “I thought you’d learn your lesson from overplaying your position” jaimie problem was never that he was dumb his problem was that he thought everyone else was
*Karstark's arrest, season 8 version* Robb: It took five of you to murder two unnarmed squires? Karstark: Not murder, your grace. Vengeance! Robb: ... It took five of you to vengeance two unnarmed squires?
@Dreamfyretechnically speaking, Brandon killed himself. He strangled himself to death trying to get to his just out of reach sword to get his father while the Mad King burned him alive. Had he not struggled, he would have lived. At least for a while. I have no doubt the King would have turned to him next. His self-strangulation was perhaps merciful when considering the King probably would have burned Brandon too. But circumstances being, Brandon died by his own doing.
ALRIGHT!!! Robb's got the Lannisters running to the hills. Now that he has The Oathbreaker imprisoned, he can negotiate with Tywin for an exchange. Things are looking good for Robb. I hope nothing crazy happens like Jaime escaping or something like that.
And even if by some goddamn miracle he defeated Jaime, then what? Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Robb was secretly the second coming of Arthur Dayne and could kill Jaime. It would only make Tywin angrier. There’s no way Robb could win that even if he did win that.
This was one of the few times the show did Jamie any justice. He was an absolute legend with a sword, with the only clear cut swordsman above him being Arthur Dayne, who trained him. Hed cut down pretty much anyone in the seven kingdoms without much issue unless they used hax and prepped like Oberyn would have. Barristan Selmy scared the shit out of the entire Kingsguard plus the Hound, and would be loathe to take Jamie on in his older age, and might have lost even in his prime. Jamie was that good. I just feel robbed that the show didnt accurately portray that part of his character except in small offscreen moments like this, because it made the loss of his hand that much more potent and jarring.
We never got to see Jaime fight another exceptional swordsman/warrior because there weren't really any (none that he'd fight anyway) - Barristan was old, Oberynn wasn't around when Jaime had both hands, Drogo was in another country and we have no way to quantify his skill either. Aside from against Ned, only really see Jaime fight handicapped. There is a great scene when Jaime is newly de-handed - infected, starving, extremely dehydrated, in sheer agony, in a slow torture by Locke and his gang. Jaime manages to get his hand on a sword and hold 5 or so armed men at bay at once for a while - one of them had to hit him from behind to knock him down again. I agree with you - the show highlighted Arthur Dayne as well as Barristan and also buffed fighters like Ned, Jon and Bronn, fans hype these other fighters (especially the first 2) up so much they tend to forget Jaime is also in their tier, above all others. He just didn't get an opportunity to show us nor did the show highlight it as much as the other exceptional fighters.
The statement show Jaime made that three (or was it two?) fighters in the seven kingdoms have any chance of beating him in a fight has always been interesting to think about for me. I wonder who he meant. He wouldn't have known about Oberynn. Barristan was old but he clearly had immense respect for him (which was just randomly thrown in one single scene so idk how organic that is to the books) so he probably included Barristan as one of them. Maybe Bronn and Sandor?
@@outtajthe hound, the mountain and probably Barristan. Also have to remember Jaime is exceedingly arrogant. He's a prodigy, no doubt but he is talking about himself when he says this. Martin himself said that ranking sword fighters is pointless because any fighter can lose on any given day. So sure there are three men who he says can take him but there are Plenty of honorable mentions that could take him depending on the day.. Oberyn Martell, Garlan Tyrell(NOT Loras) Victarion Greyjoy, etc
I always thought Robb should have pointed out that if they fought the Lannisters wouldn’t have honored his word even if Jamie lost. They would have just continued on and probably done something to one of the stark girls for revenge of killing Jamie. Knowing how good Jamie was with two hands that’s a big risk
Right! That might work for Ramsay Vs John where they're the leaders but both joffrey and tywin were tilers ahead of Jaime so it was a pointless suggestion
Everyone blames Rob and him falling in love for bringing down this alliance and while yes they did have something to do with the Frey's, I would further argue that Catelyn Stark being there was a much bigger problem. Not only did she undermine his authority, question his commands, but actively went behind his back and commited treason. Not to mention released his biggest bargaining chip. Had Jamie Lannister remained in prison the Frey's still couldn't have pulled off the Red Wedding. No matter how mad they were about who Rob smashed.
“I have neither doubt nor pride” This is the phrase of a custodian from Warhammer 40k and how Rob acted is just the perfect example of a man that is not blinded by neither doubt or pride in being coerced to do what others want
The circumstances are different. Jon offered before the battle. Jaime offered after the battle was already over and he was captured. The Starks killed Jaime's entire Cavalry detachment while only losing like 200 men.
Jamie cut down 10 knights including 3 of robb's bodyguards, the only thing that saved robb was jamie's sword getting stuck in one of the bodyguards' head. And he still goes balls to the wall and challenges the pup to a 1v1 duel
Jamie KNOWS he could kill him easily. He was hoping that Robb would be prideful and take the challenge. He didn’t account that Robb has humility as well as intelligence. He knows he isn’t as good a fighter as Jamie. He is very skilled but not as much as him. A fight would be a suicide mission. He knows that. Which is why he declines. He doesn’t have the Lannister pridefulness Jamie does. He also doesn’t know the North. The Northman wouldn’t respect Robb less for not fighting him when he had a smarter move. He’d lose no honor in their eyes. They’d trust that he was out maneuvering.
@@hez859 Exactly. In the books Robb is only 14 here. In the show he is 17. Jamie is 32 in the books and 36 in the show. That’s a BIG age gap. So a big experience and training gap.
All Rob had to do at this point was go back north with Jaime and negotiate a trade, unfortunately he didn't realize how much Tywin valued Jaime because he was the future of the family Tywin wanted. They could have freed all the Starks, fortified the north, and lived happily ever after.
He could ve stayed in Riverrun, go to Winterfell, siege Casterly Rock or even sail to the Iron Islands or Pentos as long as he kept Jaime priosioner and honor his pact to the Freys, sadly he didnt.
literally just got to this part on my re-read via audible and i keep forgetting how much older they made them in the show. the books make this seem even more impressive, he’s a 15 year old kid who, just like his pops, is naturally good at war, super honorable and will die way too young
Robb was clever, he made some mistakes which were his undoing but he was clever, he knew better then to assume he could face Jamie Lannister, one of the most feared knights and swordsmen in the realm, one on one, he knew the offer to choose a weapon was really a formality since hed lose anyways.
You'd think Rob's sense of honour instilled in him by his father would compel him to answer the challenge to single combat... Until you realise it's Jaime making the dishonourable call here. One of, if not the greatest swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms challenging a young, inexperienced Lord still finding his feet. Props to Rob for being smart enough to realise the game Jaime is trying to get him to play here. Sure, Jaime may have 'paid his debts' and ended the war, but the Lannisters would have assuredly still held the other Starks prisoner and imposed heavy sanctions on the North after the fact. In a winning position after the duel, Tywin would have definitely looked to make an example out of those who rebelled against his house and family. Like he says; if it appears as though you allow your enemies to readily resist you with impunity, it shows weakness.
God, I remember having such high hopes for Robb and it ended in such a brutal way that literally left me speechless, my jaw dropped and I just starred at the credits lol
everyone nuttin their pantaloons about what a smart dude robb is here but this is equivalent to a prime Mike Tyson challenging a highschool sophomore to a boxing match 😅
Yeah honestly the only reasons Robb would accept are 1. He let Jaime under his nerves or 2. Like Jon said would his men fight for him when he wouldn’t fight for them However: both are nullified as Jaime didn’t really insult Robb just a challenge (and R learned self control from Ned), and Robb showed he was very able and willing to fight with him men instead of only behind them not to mention the loyalty the North has for the Starks unlike the Boltons.
Jamie is the best swordsman in all of Westeros other than Sir Arthur Dayne. Tyrion is NOT a warrior. He could out drink someone. He would win a battle of wits. But he isn’t a fighter. Plus he has obvious disadvantages. Of COURSE he needs someone to fight for him! It is a MIRACLE he made it out of Blackwater with only a scar.
In the books, it seemed kinda funny. In that scene, Cat is guarded by Hollis Mullen - a guy not in the show,. He was the new captain of guards at Winterfell after Ned took Jory south. And Cat was surrounded by 30 Stark guards. When Jamie is captured , he is thrown at Cats feet and Hollis announces, “It’s the Kingslayer!” As if no one else could tell. Fun fact is so far the guys alive
The moment where both Jamie and Tywin realized they severaly underestimated how good of a commander Robb was, alongside of overestimated how good they themselves were
I like the baseline of respect here and the way that Jamie reacts to it. Robb basically says "we both know you'd kick my ass, I'd be a bad general if I agreed to this" and Jamie was like "well... yeah I guess"
I am sure that Tywin would just quit the war and surrender because Jaime made this offer, if Rob had accepted and won. "Oh, he did? Well then, it's over. Of course, I trust it was a fair fight and Jaime gave his word. Lets go home and peacefully mourn my son's murder." It's just so stupid, and not just because Jaime would destroy Rob.
Jaime issued the challenge when the battle had been done and over. Jon issued the challenge before the battle begun, saving lives by a 1v1 would’ve actually made sense then. That’s why Ramsey is cowardly, for letting his men fight and die on his behalf.
@@AnakinGozie77 I guess you grasp at what you can and hope they take the bait...but it also means being laughed at if you end up looking like a fool because they don't. 🤷♂️
"If we do it your way, Kingmaker. You´d win" I see a parallel to the Butcher´s Ball in Fire $ Blood dialogue between the Northern men and the Kingmaker
And Caitlyn threw the sacrifices of those fallen soldiers away when she freed Jaime just on the very obvious that the Lannisters wouldn’t give her back her daughters as a grateful gesture. Jaime backstabbed a king he swore a vow to, fathered Cersei’s children that she passed on as Robert’s, and tried to kill Bran and ended up crippling him in the process. Caitlyn was so stupid in this show, she let her emotions dictate her actions, and it cost her family everything in the end.
Catelin Stark was the worst. Her taking Tyrion Lannister hostage on the thinnest of evidence begins the war and gets her husband killed. Her releasing Jaime gets her, her son, and most of his men killed. Heck remember when she had to convince Ned to trust Littlefinger? She’s weak and impulsive, worst of all she’s convinced she’s right when she’s always wrong. If She doesn’t kidnap Tyrion the Starks just pack up their stuff and head home safe to Winterfell.
He forgot he was dealing with an older brother. He was like “I will not be goaded by you you little shit. That may work on your proud father and cousins but here in the north, I invented that shit.
Worth noting how wrong/deceitful Jaime's offer was. Even if Robb had won, it wouldn't have ended the war. Not in the face of Joffrey's petulance or Tywin's devotion to the Lannister name. And that doesn't begin to take into account the legitimate grievances of House Stark.
I realized watching this that John Snow had alot of traits of rob except for one. Snow was willing to sacrifice the woman he loved for the good of the realm, where Rob followed his heart.
I just realized John offered the same thing to Ramsay about fighting to end their battle/war and Ramsay refused just like Rob did here. Totally different people but the right decision in both situations.
This is how Hector should have responded to Achilles. He just offered himself to die like a goat. War is War. Patroclus went to battle and died. Thats gone! Done and dusted. Hector didnt need to accept Achilles offer to duel! It would have been nice to see Achilles try to breach Troys defence alone
Love how despite being mocked and pressured to end it all in single combat, Rob is not arrogant or stupid enough to not admit he has no chance of winning.
Same thing Jon snow said to Ramsey 😂
And all of Rob's bannermen know he has a 99% chance of losing to Jamie so they don't hold it against him that he doesn't accept the challenge.
Same reason he didn’t fight Tywin head on army against army.
Even if Rob wins by a sheer chance (such as a meteor striking Jamie in the head), Tywin is not going to surrender just because Jamie lost in a duel haha.
@@seabard77Exactly. You'd have to be real dumb to accept that "deal"
At least Rob was honest. That's refreshing.
Name one time he wasn’t honest
@@1233-i3ythat's what he's saying, "refreshing" in comparison to others
@@1233-i3y He promised to wed a fray but didn't
@@1233-i3y when he pledged to marry Frey girl
One time was enough to get him killed
Ramsay was just as honest when Jon Snow made him the same offer, but the fandom called it cowardly.
There is respect in Jaime's smirking after Robb's answer. He is like "You're a boy allright, but not a stupid arrogant boy at all."
Rob was a idiot why two word red wedding
I always interpreted it rather as an "Oh crap, this Stark actually thinks before he acts." 😮
I always saw it as a bit of respect on Jamie’s part. He knows that Robb is a good warrior. He knows Robb thinks before he strikes. Robb would have made an amazing knight with Jamie. In some ways, he is like a young Jamie before the corruption spoiled him completely. Robb is no fool. (Except his BIG blunder) he would never fight Jamie one on one. That is suicide and he knows it. It is also a compliment to Jamie in a way. Robb acknowledged that Jamie is the superior fighter of the two
@@Hydorior Considering Robb’s uncle thought he could pull up to the castle and solo the entire royal army and the kings guard to get to Rhaegar, I think Jamie’s response is understandable…😂
I interpreted it as wry disappointment. "He's just like the rest." Jaime is a jaded knight who dreams of knights in shining armor. Of honor and saving lives. But beaten down by the world. I think he saw the possibility of the story book knights in the Starks. A chance for him to be true, too. But when Rob declined, it faded away
Robb was unstoppable until he met random nurse
Yup. Keep your fcking oath. He could’ve still had the nurse behind the scenes too. Lord Frey just wanted the prestige
@@ReaperRellsweirdly enough he was too honourable to do that
@@OliverSierraW got me so pissed. Dude united the north and had the war against teh lanniser practically won. all he had to do was honor some stupid oath and have one of them bum daughers just chill in a castle while smashed the nurse. And his mom didnt freaking warn him of oaths. Ahhh, if only ned was alive. Robb was my guy man...hated that he messed up so badly
I remember getting extremely angry with Robb when I reached that part in the book. I knew that he'd die for it.
Yeah even Jon was unstoppable until he meet dany
"He cut down ten of our men." Is my favourite bit of exposition.
You are forgetting the "You sar' him".
Only reason Robb survived was because Jamie’s sword was stuck in another man’s head and he couldn’t properly pull it out. Pretty wild
Good thing they showed the battle,oh wait...
You mean the man who knows exactly that he is sleeping with his sister
@@trulaila8560 This battle was way better to witness than the last two
Rob to Jaime: "if we battle one on one you'll win, but my army will beat your army"
Me: wow hes so honest and honorable
Ramsay to John: "if we battle one on one you'll win, but my army will beat your army"
Me: what a cowardly twat
The difference between a man with principles and a man who lack them is important. Plus the reason they are fighting for
well, no one has a chance against Jaime with both of his hands, he's way more dangerous compared to John.
The skill difference is much bigger here
Jon wasn't swordfight legend even if show overpowered him a bit
Rob vs Jaime is basically Mountain vs ser Dontos
@@istredd3465it should be Mountain vs hotpie
The main difference is the circumstance Jamie offered it when he was held captive and had no choice it was Robb's decision but Jon was a free man but he still offered one on one battle
Good times when Rob was smart 😅
I’d say Robb was always smart but like his father he made one or two crucial errors while everybody and their mother screwed up around him. He should’ve had Gregor’s head on a spike if it wasn’t for his uncle, he would’ve been able to challenge Casterly Rock if it wasn’t for how STUPID Balon was, and he would’ve been able to make up for his mistakes had Catlyn just not have been an idiot. Even still, he by all rights should’ve been able to retreat back to the North since the laws of Guest Right are so sacred that nobody, even those without any shred of honor, are stupid enough to disobey them, at least in the books. However, the Freys allow themselves to be tricked by the promises of House Lannister knowing full well that their new bannermen would treat them the same way they treated the Tully’s and show up late if at all to any fight.
Love sometimes compell a person to make stupid decisions
Question, is he smart in the books? I haven't watched GOT and I'm in a dilemma of choosing the books or the TV show
@@mamen6486 it's less obvious but still happening quite the same. A big difference is how he find his girl and how he speaks about with Frey house.
@@mamen6486READ THE BOOKS FIRST
Jamie was trying to bate Rob into a fight thinking Robs age, immaturity, pride and lack of experience would surely push him into fighting. Also thinking Rob couldn’t afford 😅to look bad or afraid in front of his army (the guys). Rob didn’t fall or play into it. It was in that moment Jamie recognized and respected the intelligence of a 16 yr old kid, King Robert Stark ❤
And King but also the son of Ned Stark. You really think Jaime would in the back of his mind know better. Robb isn’t stupid. Plus he had his honor and humility that his father taught him.
It's Robb not Robert
People compare this to the Ramsay vs John scene. But Robb had already won the battle against Jaime's army. And he actually fought, he didn't stand from afar.
It doesn't even begin to be a fair offer lmao. Rob is a faction leader. The northener cause essentially lives and dies with him. Jaime, on the other hand, is ultimately just a cog in the Lannister war machine. Rob doesn't really stand to gain anything from ending him aside from emotional satisfaction.
edit: accidentally typed in Lancaster instead lmao
@@klade5031 Very appropriate typo, considering the Starks and Lannisters are based on the Yorks and Lancasters.
@@klade5031Jaime Lancaster Bomber, a true threat to the seven kingdoms!
Ramsey was smart and had the advantage and could have easily won If the writers were competent and the starks didn't have horses with teleportation powers on their side.
@@klade5031your right jaimes game can only work if people agreed it’s like the guy from the Bolton’s said “I thought you’d learn your lesson from overplaying your position” jaimie problem was never that he was dumb his problem was that he thought everyone else was
If this was season 8 jaimy would say let me go pls i need to see my sister again. And Robb would for some reason be saying "cercei is my queen"
This is the most logical and funny comment
I was reading, agreeing to everything and last one came out of nowhere!
“I don’t want it, I never have”
MUH QUEEN
*Karstark's arrest, season 8 version*
Robb: It took five of you to murder two unnarmed squires?
Karstark: Not murder, your grace. Vengeance!
Robb: ... It took five of you to vengeance two unnarmed squires?
Okay Lannister, i choose Wolf as my weapon now pick your wolf
Fkin lmfao
Brilliant!
they pick dwarf
He'd get a lion from Esos😂
And if he said lion?
Love how sincerely emotional is Caitlyn
I agree. Great performance.
Yeah but it was also Robs downfall. He had the fierceness of the Starks but the emotions of a Tully
I love how pretty she is 😍 the top MILF across the seven kingdoms ❤ it's a damn shame there were no lovemaking scenes of her 😅
She is the reason for everything.
@Dreamfyretechnically speaking, Brandon killed himself. He strangled himself to death trying to get to his just out of reach sword to get his father while the Mad King burned him alive. Had he not struggled, he would have lived. At least for a while. I have no doubt the King would have turned to him next. His self-strangulation was perhaps merciful when considering the King probably would have burned Brandon too. But circumstances being, Brandon died by his own doing.
ALRIGHT!!! Robb's got the Lannisters running to the hills. Now that he has The Oathbreaker imprisoned, he can negotiate with Tywin for an exchange. Things are looking good for Robb. I hope nothing crazy happens like Jaime escaping or something like that.
If only if only...
or robb becoming an oathbreaker himself
Nah Jaime would never be able to escape without help from a Traitor…
Wait-
Oh my sweet summer child.
@@ZyryllVillanueva ???
Robb's smartest move in the series. He had 0 chance against prime Jaime
And even if by some goddamn miracle he defeated Jaime, then what? Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Robb was secretly the second coming of Arthur Dayne and could kill Jaime. It would only make Tywin angrier. There’s no way Robb could win that even if he did win that.
@@someguitardude8462 tbh Tywin being angry doesn't change things because Robb clearly out smarted him in war
He was an excellent swordsman, but he even offered to fight barehanded. That's a fight he would have lost against 99 percent of northerners.
@@bmsuperstar1 he never said he will be barehanded
@@berndv7 Unless he offered to use someone else's teeth and nails - then yes, he said he'd fight barehanded.
“He cut down 10 of our men”
Thanks for showing us it
Catelyn really screwed the Starks over, first by bringing Tyrion to her sister, then by letting Jamie go free
Rob:"OK i choose nails."
Jaime:
💅
Really wish the writers would have shown us the battle on the show. It would've been magnificent to see Jaime fight in more battles.
Smart enough to study how the Lannisters fought the last war. And clever enough not to be baited
Gods the scenes were strong back then
This was one of the few times the show did Jamie any justice. He was an absolute legend with a sword, with the only clear cut swordsman above him being Arthur Dayne, who trained him.
Hed cut down pretty much anyone in the seven kingdoms without much issue unless they used hax and prepped like Oberyn would have.
Barristan Selmy scared the shit out of the entire Kingsguard plus the Hound, and would be loathe to take Jamie on in his older age, and might have lost even in his prime. Jamie was that good.
I just feel robbed that the show didnt accurately portray that part of his character except in small offscreen moments like this, because it made the loss of his hand that much more potent and jarring.
We never got to see Jaime fight another exceptional swordsman/warrior because there weren't really any (none that he'd fight anyway) - Barristan was old, Oberynn wasn't around when Jaime had both hands, Drogo was in another country and we have no way to quantify his skill either.
Aside from against Ned, only really see Jaime fight handicapped. There is a great scene when Jaime is newly de-handed - infected, starving, extremely dehydrated, in sheer agony, in a slow torture by Locke and his gang. Jaime manages to get his hand on a sword and hold 5 or so armed men at bay at once for a while - one of them had to hit him from behind to knock him down again.
I agree with you - the show highlighted Arthur Dayne as well as Barristan and also buffed fighters like Ned, Jon and Bronn, fans hype these other fighters (especially the first 2) up so much they tend to forget Jaime is also in their tier, above all others. He just didn't get an opportunity to show us nor did the show highlight it as much as the other exceptional fighters.
The statement show Jaime made that three (or was it two?) fighters in the seven kingdoms have any chance of beating him in a fight has always been interesting to think about for me. I wonder who he meant. He wouldn't have known about Oberynn. Barristan was old but he clearly had immense respect for him (which was just randomly thrown in one single scene so idk how organic that is to the books) so he probably included Barristan as one of them. Maybe Bronn and Sandor?
@@outtajThe Mountain maybe
@@outtajthe hound, the mountain and probably Barristan. Also have to remember Jaime is exceedingly arrogant. He's a prodigy, no doubt but he is talking about himself when he says this.
Martin himself said that ranking sword fighters is pointless because any fighter can lose on any given day. So sure there are three men who he says can take him but there are Plenty of honorable mentions that could take him depending on the day.. Oberyn Martell, Garlan Tyrell(NOT Loras)
Victarion Greyjoy, etc
Everyone says that but he lost to brienne of tarth lol?
I always loved that line "Before they knew what was happening, it had already happened."
I always thought Robb should have pointed out that if they fought the Lannisters wouldn’t have honored his word even if Jamie lost. They would have just continued on and probably done something to one of the stark girls for revenge of killing Jamie. Knowing how good Jamie was with two hands that’s a big risk
Right! That might work for Ramsay Vs John where they're the leaders but both joffrey and tywin were tilers ahead of Jaime so it was a pointless suggestion
Swords, teeth, nails, ... You cannot say that Jaime is not accomodating.
And he even offered his sword to Lady Stark.
He won every fight but lost war. ..and his wife and mother
A perfect example of the phrase "You won the battle, but lost the war"
Everyone blames Rob and him falling in love for bringing down this alliance and while yes they did have something to do with the Frey's, I would further argue that Catelyn Stark being there was a much bigger problem.
Not only did she undermine his authority, question his commands, but actively went behind his back and commited treason. Not to mention released his biggest bargaining chip. Had Jamie Lannister remained in prison the Frey's still couldn't have pulled off the Red Wedding. No matter how mad they were about who Rob smashed.
“I have neither doubt nor pride”
This is the phrase of a custodian from Warhammer 40k and how Rob acted is just the perfect example of a man that is not blinded by neither doubt or pride in being coerced to do what others want
It kind of feels like Jamie thinks: damn, I wish my psychotic bastard son was this smart and humble.
Ironically when Jamie challenges Robb, he says almost word for word what Jon says to Ramsey before they fight for winterfeld
The circumstances are different. Jon offered before the battle. Jaime offered after the battle was already over and he was captured. The Starks killed Jaime's entire Cavalry detachment while only losing like 200 men.
Know your enemy and know yourself. You will win a thousand victories. Smart guy Rob.
Jamie cut down 10 knights including 3 of robb's bodyguards, the only thing that saved robb was jamie's sword getting stuck in one of the bodyguards' head. And he still goes balls to the wall and challenges the pup to a 1v1 duel
Jamie KNOWS he could kill him easily. He was hoping that Robb would be prideful and take the challenge. He didn’t account that Robb has humility as well as intelligence. He knows he isn’t as good a fighter as Jamie. He is very skilled but not as much as him. A fight would be a suicide mission. He knows that. Which is why he declines. He doesn’t have the Lannister pridefulness Jamie does. He also doesn’t know the North. The Northman wouldn’t respect Robb less for not fighting him when he had a smarter move. He’d lose no honor in their eyes. They’d trust that he was out maneuvering.
@@allshookup1640can't forget the age gap. Robb is still a growing boy
@@hez859 Exactly. In the books Robb is only 14 here. In the show he is 17. Jamie is 32 in the books and 36 in the show. That’s a BIG age gap. So a big experience and training gap.
Too bad they didn't show this in the show haha
@@allshookup1640 thats the point, jamie is a fkin badass freak of nature
Damn, Hermione’s memory charm was tougher than I thought.
All Rob had to do at this point was go back north with Jaime and negotiate a trade, unfortunately he didn't realize how much Tywin valued Jaime because he was the future of the family Tywin wanted. They could have freed all the Starks, fortified the north, and lived happily ever after.
He could ve stayed in Riverrun, go to Winterfell, siege Casterly Rock or even sail to the Iron Islands or Pentos as long as he kept Jaime priosioner and honor his pact to the Freys, sadly he didnt.
literally just got to this part on my re-read via audible and i keep forgetting how much older they made them in the show. the books make this seem even more impressive, he’s a 15 year old kid who, just like his pops, is naturally good at war, super honorable and will die way too young
theon slaying in that full plate armor
loyalty looks good on u my guy
Lady stark was one of my favorite character🤍 her death made me cry😭
This scene shows the great contrast between Robb and Joffrey. Robb keeps a valuable hostage alive. Joffrey kills Ned just for spite.
Robb was clever, he made some mistakes which were his undoing but he was clever, he knew better then to assume he could face Jamie Lannister, one of the most feared knights and swordsmen in the realm, one on one, he knew the offer to choose a weapon was really a formality since hed lose anyways.
Nikolaj absolutely nails Jaime's unshakeable cockiness. It might be a shield, but it's a good one.
You'd think Rob's sense of honour instilled in him by his father would compel him to answer the challenge to single combat...
Until you realise it's Jaime making the dishonourable call here. One of, if not the greatest swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms challenging a young, inexperienced Lord still finding his feet.
Props to Rob for being smart enough to realise the game Jaime is trying to get him to play here. Sure, Jaime may have 'paid his debts' and ended the war, but the Lannisters would have assuredly still held the other Starks prisoner and imposed heavy sanctions on the North after the fact.
In a winning position after the duel, Tywin would have definitely looked to make an example out of those who rebelled against his house and family. Like he says; if it appears as though you allow your enemies to readily resist you with impunity, it shows weakness.
Smart man great leader true King 👑💪🏿
God, I remember having such high hopes for Robb and it ended in such a brutal way that literally left me speechless, my jaw dropped and I just starred at the credits lol
everyone nuttin their pantaloons about what a smart dude robb is here but this is equivalent to a prime Mike Tyson challenging a highschool sophomore to a boxing match 😅
Yeah honestly the only reasons Robb would accept are 1. He let Jaime under his nerves or 2. Like Jon said would his men fight for him when he wouldn’t fight for them
However: both are nullified as Jaime didn’t really insult Robb just a challenge (and R learned self control from Ned), and Robb showed he was very able and willing to fight with him men instead of only behind them not to mention the loyalty the North has for the Starks unlike the Boltons.
Okay, I am definitely incorporating “nuttin their pantaloons” into my everyday lexicon.
This moment indicated to Jamie that his father's regards of Robb's greenness were sorely overestimated
I love how ticked off Jamie got hearing Rob call him Kingslayer
Theon was fool but innocent man. Always spoke his mind not knowing his place, surronding or time.
Rob Was Beast ,Jus made Some Foolish Selfish Decisions & Payed For It Long Live The Young 🐺
Jaime willing to fight for his freedom, Tyrion willing to get someone to fight for him...gotta know your strengths.
Jamie is the best swordsman in all of Westeros other than Sir Arthur Dayne. Tyrion is NOT a warrior. He could out drink someone. He would win a battle of wits. But he isn’t a fighter. Plus he has obvious disadvantages. Of COURSE he needs someone to fight for him! It is a MIRACLE he made it out of Blackwater with only a scar.
In the books, it seemed kinda funny. In that scene, Cat is guarded by Hollis Mullen - a guy not in the show,. He was the new captain of guards at Winterfell after Ned took Jory south. And Cat was surrounded by 30 Stark guards. When Jamie is captured , he is thrown at Cats feet and Hollis announces, “It’s the Kingslayer!” As if no one else could tell. Fun fact is so far the guys alive
"We could end this war right now bo-"
"We could."
Jaime could, but not Rob. Even if by some miracle Rob bests him in combat, I guarantee Tywin won't take the loss lying down.
The moment where both Jamie and Tywin realized they severaly underestimated how good of a commander Robb was, alongside of overestimated how good they themselves were
I like the baseline of respect here and the way that Jamie reacts to it. Robb basically says "we both know you'd kick my ass, I'd be a bad general if I agreed to this" and Jamie was like "well... yeah I guess"
Even if Rob somehow won, like jamie has a heart attack and dies, Tywin is not going to surrender because Jamie lost a duel
Jaime in tht moment probably couldnt help wishing Rob was his son 😂 and not Joffery
Anyone would wish the same I mean who wants smug over brave
I am sure that Tywin would just quit the war and surrender because Jaime made this offer, if Rob had accepted and won. "Oh, he did? Well then, it's over. Of course, I trust it was a fair fight and Jaime gave his word. Lets go home and peacefully mourn my son's murder." It's just so stupid, and not just because Jaime would destroy Rob.
Even If he lost, Tywin wouldn't have honored their combat agreement
If Cat doesn't help him escape, Jaime would still have his hand...wonder what Jamie would choose.
When Ramsey does it, he's called a coward 😂😂
He's gay
Jaime issued the challenge when the battle had been done and over.
Jon issued the challenge before the battle begun, saving lives by a 1v1 would’ve actually made sense then.
That’s why Ramsey is cowardly, for letting his men fight and die on his behalf.
even if robb somehow won i don't think tywin or cersei would really end the war nor Joffrey would
Just don't lose a hand picking the wrong move or tool.❤
That's a challenge you make BEFORE you're disarmed and captured. To do so in this scenario doesn't really carry any weight.
He was desperate and he was on his last straw
@@AnakinGozie77 I guess you grasp at what you can and hope they take the bait...but it also means being laughed at if you end up looking like a fool because they don't. 🤷♂️
Robs smart, it would be a lose lose situation with whoever won.
Should’ve said “okay so do you think your people will be ready to for you when they’ll know you weren’t ready to die for them”
"If we do it your way, Kingmaker. You´d win"
I see a parallel to the Butcher´s Ball in Fire $ Blood dialogue between the Northern men and the Kingmaker
Thank you for not blasting one of the 5 same songs you hear in every TikTok video!
Even if Rob wins, I am sure that cersei won't just surrender and end it all.
Robb would have made for such an incredible king. Out of everyone in the entire series, I think Robb would have been the best. Even over Ned.
And then Robb listened to his little head.
Ramsay to Jon: It worked for your brother against the Lannisters. 🤷🏼♂️
"Choosr your weapons " "Fists" 😅
And Caitlyn threw the sacrifices of those fallen soldiers away when she freed Jaime just on the very obvious that the Lannisters wouldn’t give her back her daughters as a grateful gesture. Jaime backstabbed a king he swore a vow to, fathered Cersei’s children that she passed on as Robert’s, and tried to kill Bran and ended up crippling him in the process. Caitlyn was so stupid in this show, she let her emotions dictate her actions, and it cost her family everything in the end.
Robb and Arya got all the brains in the family, sansa left with 0
"I've lost them too I'm afraid..."😅
When he was thinking with his head not with his balls
I love how this mirrors the scene where Jon gives Ramsey the same offer
"He cut down 10 of our men"
Jaime:"Lets 1v1 bro"
Robb:"Do you think i didn't hear what the man just said?"
He should have said "You and your most loyal beast vs me and my most loyal beast"
Catelin Stark was the worst. Her taking Tyrion Lannister hostage on the thinnest of evidence begins the war and gets her husband killed. Her releasing Jaime gets her, her son, and most of his men killed.
Heck remember when she had to convince Ned to trust Littlefinger?
She’s weak and impulsive, worst of all she’s convinced she’s right when she’s always wrong.
If She doesn’t kidnap Tyrion the Starks just pack up their stuff and head home safe to Winterfell.
He forgot he was dealing with an older brother. He was like “I will not be goaded by you you little shit. That may work on your proud father and cousins but here in the north, I invented that shit.
Worth noting how wrong/deceitful Jaime's offer was. Even if Robb had won, it wouldn't have ended the war. Not in the face of Joffrey's petulance or Tywin's devotion to the Lannister name. And that doesn't begin to take into account the legitimate grievances of House Stark.
I realized watching this that John Snow had alot of traits of rob except for one. Snow was willing to sacrifice the woman he loved for the good of the realm, where Rob followed his heart.
Robb will always be the goat
Imagine Robb accepting Jaime's proposal and winning...I'm sure Cersei and Joffrey would accept the outcome
I just realized John offered the same thing to Ramsay about fighting to end their battle/war and Ramsay refused just like Rob did here. Totally different people but the right decision in both situations.
He respected Rob in that moment
The Greatjon with his bloody sword😂
By the drowned gods, Theon is quick to kill .. "like a shark in the mountains"😮
Robb could be like, okay then how about a running contest here and now in the outfit we are currently wearing
He knew he wanted no smoke with Jamie 💯
If only Rob had as much self-control as he did humility. lol
Rob was smart. He knew Jamie was trying to bait him in so he could kill him, but Rob wasn't playing that game.
If only rob was this wise later on.....
Reminds me of when Jon Snow challenged Ramsey Bolton
I love the part where they show how Jamie was captured!
This is how Hector should have responded to Achilles. He just offered himself to die like a goat.
War is War. Patroclus went to battle and died. Thats gone! Done and dusted. Hector didnt need to accept Achilles offer to duel!
It would have been nice to see Achilles try to breach Troys defence alone
I didn't realize that the conversation between Jaimie and Rob about single combat instead was echoed in the conversation between Jon and Ramsey
If Rob had won it wouldn't have been honoured.
So handsome! All bloody and rude!😂❤
Rob was probably the most capable leader in the entire series and the person with the fewest character flaws.
Jaime was arguably the best Swordsman in all of Westeros at this time. Can’t blame Robb for not accepting the duel.