Because she broke lore. Not just the EU, the movies, and it was asked if she broke lore, and Filoni just laughed it off and threw responsibility back onto George, for which I have my doubts. No one is denying George is his own worst enemy, but _I_ think Filoni played on that and abused it to get what he wanted and further tarnish his reputation. He's manipulative.
Also, tbh, I personally felt while watching Mando season 2 that Luke was more impressive than Ahsoka was. Using the force to crush droids and such and slicing them like butter. Ahsoka was impressive too but not to the same degree. So not sure what the problem is here. He’s right that she’s older and has more experience but that doesn’t make her better necessarily. He didn’t say that in this clip.
Right. Luke probably has more natural power in the Force but he's still years behind in training to Ahsoka. Ahsoka would have a more fluid lightsaber technique.
also in the disney canon they obviously don't have much idea of Luke's training, in the expanded universe I know that he receives knowledge about how the lightsaber is handled by Yoda, holocrons or another type of reference material, because his skill with the saber on the new Jedi order era was exceptional and prodigious, being able to face many Yuuzhan Vong at the same time with incredible speed
He's trolling. That's what he does, in a subtle way, to try to get a rise out of the older fans (like minor botches to lore details) while pandering to children, at the same time those he panders to, like the older fans, can't see how he's insulting them, how he holds them in total contempt. It's just a softer version of the gaslighting at Lucasfilm.
Hold the phone. He didn't say ashoka was better. He said she had more experience than luke which is true. She lived over 20 years longer than luke, had training from the jedi when they were at their peak, was trained by the chosen one, fought in 2 wars and had a healthy amount of character growth. Something you need to remember as well is that brining in Luke was both he and favorou"s idea to give us the real luke skywalker. If he really wanted to have ashoka outshine luke they would have had her rescue grogu, not luke skywalker.
@@saberiandream316 that multiple people over decades of time have been trying to adapt the incoherent garbage world of george lucas into the franchise we love now. There’s a few loose ends that really don’t matter/so insignificant it’s not worth mentioning, like what you said .
@@woozie_ztfo9285 To me it says Filoni's always been a hack, and yet when confronted with that, I notice people resort to bashing the EU, the universe he undermined.
Then why didn't she defeat Darth Vader maybe there is a reason in rebels but i haven't seen it. Point is Luke was able to defeat Vader and as far as i know ashoka couldn't
Nothing here should be controversial. She has vastly more lightsaber training and experience than Luke, so from a technical standpoint she knows more than he does. But Luke was a prodigy who makes up for that with raw talent. That's nothing we didn't already know in the OT. Basically all the Jedi from the old Republic knew more than Luke. They were raised in the temple practically from birth. Luke got a crash course when he was like 20 years old. Dave was talking strictly about lightsaber styles, not strength in the force. He doesn't believe Ahsoka is stronger in the force than Luke.
Exactly. I don't get why some people want Luke to be a Gary stue. He was never the greatest lightsaber dualist. Why not let him have some flaws especially since he's still very young?
@@datguy3581 Lmao!! How would Luke be a Gary Stu?? It's just a fact that he's more powerful than Ahsoka. The fact that you're getting so butthurt over it indicates that *you* are in fact the biased one here.
@@imyouralibi6208 How am I biased? Your the one insisting a boy with no formal training is a better dualist than someone with decades of experience who was trained by Anakin, Obi wan, and Yoda for a significant amount of time. Someone who has gone up against multiple lightsaber wielding foes likes Grevous, Ventrass, and Maul. Ahsoka was able to damage Vader’s helmet significantly and almost overcame him. But of course Luke is the most powerful because he’s y’all’s favorite.
@@mclovin4495 true, but Filoni is just talking about this specific point in time. Luke still has a long journey ahead to become as powerful as he was in the eu, before he ultimately ruins all of that so the sequels can happen that is ofcourse
Ahsoka isn't even a character who was created by George, she was created as a side character in an animated show by Filoni. Luke canonically becomes the strongest Jedi, in the canon approved by George before Disney threw it to the sidelines after 2012.
@@datguy3581 The fact that Filoni loved and defended Rey. The fact that he retconned the EU into oblivion and thus spat on the legacy of much more talented writers by twisting what they had made into some subpar version of it that suited his own purposes. Saberian Dream was spot on when he called Filoni a narcissist because that's *exactly* what he is.
@@imyouralibi6208 Whats wrong with defending Rey? She was an okay character in TFA. She definitely wasn’t a Mary Sue or whatever at that point. Filoni defended the decision to have her beat Kylo Ren which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Filoni didn’t retcon the EU. Lucas did that. Filoni just did his job which was to make Star Wars content for the canon. I’ve never seen any suggestion that Filoni thinks his work is better than the EU. That is something you people project onto him.
@@civilwarfare101 How is that a bad thing though? She had a ton of experience in the field and a ton of training at the temple. I don't see why she shouldn't be able to beat Maul. In fact, a lot of lightsaber battles in canon are not about who is "stronger" but rather the headspace of the people in the battle and whether they give way to emotion. Obi wan beat Anakin in ROTS because of Anakin's arrogance and overconfidence. That's the same reason Ahsoka beat Maul. It's less about power levels and more about the fatal flaws in the Sith mindset and ideology.
Why is that a problem? She's older and had training from some of the best Jedi in the Order. Luke hasn't had official lightsaber combat training at this point for all we know.
@@robertocaetano4945 Luke didn't physically beat Sidious. He beat him by turning Vader to the light. That doesn't equate to lightsaber skill. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the current canon, I don't believe Luke has had a lightsaber instructor at this point.
It does make sense Ahsoka went through years of formal trainning and combat experience She was a prodigy herself(but not on the level of the Skywalkers or Rey) Luke on the other hand, was like a home-schooled prodigy, unmatched talent, but lacking in experience and orthodox education in the ways of Jedi
Makes sense. And it lines up with Rex's words from the Clone Wars movie: "Experience outranks everything." She may not be the most powerful force user but she certainly has a very well refined lightsaber form.
@@firestriker3580 If you think about it. Luke never had formal training. He never had that many lightsaber duels(due to order 66) He did beat Vader, but he was Luke's father Now let's look at Ahsoka She's been in jedi academy at very young age Her "full time" master was Anakin Skywalker She fought against duelists like Grevious, Ventress, Vader ,Maul and many others Luke is most likely stronger than Ahsoka in force But Ahsoka is stronger overall as a duelist
And Luke trained directly under Yoda and Obi Wan and had direct connection to their force ghosts and to Anakin's force ghost, so no, his answer doesn't really makes sense.
@@rpgadventurer32 Ahsoka was trained by Yoda and Obi wan in person. She grew up as a youngling in the temple. And she faced tons of dark siders in her time. At this point in the story, Filoni is right when he says that Ahsoka would have better form than Luke.
@@saberiandream316 You realize that she still got enough training to get started, and she's still been honing her skills in the years after TCW, right? She doesn't need to be part of the Jedi order to grow her own skills in the Force. And good god, you're really harping the fact that she force pushed Vader, aren't you? Oh the humanity, she managed ONE force push on Vader despite the fact that he clearly had the overall upper hand in that duel.
@@saberiandream316 Lol she’s a Mary Sue for force pushing Vader. It’s funny how no one calls Luke a Gary Stu but like to say he’s the best at everything. Shows how dumb your argument is when she is older and more experienced than most Jedi
Problem isn't her power level being 9000 or whatever. Problem is that her character arc was supposed to either be a tragedy where she dies and scars vader forever, or that she would have to be the student that overcome the evil master. Instead, she didn't become either because her fandom were kids and killing her off is just too traumatizing, yet the continuity requirement with original trilogy doesn't allow her to be the savior of Anakin since Luke already did that. Then the worst part is that they just hand-wave all of this with some random "oh she's just absent for good reasons, but we haven't figured out a good reason... only lame reasons."
I think we should wait to figure out exactly why she was absent in the OT before we criticize that element of the story. If Clone Wars came out before the OT, perhaps an Ahsoka v Vader conflict would've been a great ending. But I still think that Ahsoka can get a great ending without that. Perhaps her story will end with bringing someone like Ezra back from the dark in a way that she couldn't for Anakin. Maybe it will end with reconciling her past with Anakin and getting over her trauma so she can be the Jedi she was always meant to be. There are plenty of interesting directions that Ahsoka can be taken in that don't require her death at the hands of Anakin/Vader.
Clickbait, Wow first time I don't agree with JarJarBinks video. The title is not want filoni meant. What he is saying is true according to the story timeline. It is true Luke had no proper jedi training obiwan died too soon, so of course Ashoka would be more skilled at sword fighting and the force. She's had the luxury of being trained by multiple people in her lifetime since she was a child. Luke was not that lucky, his master died, and he started at an older age compared to other jedi. but that doesn't diminish Luke's character, infact is a testament to how powerful Luke is, even without proper standard Jedi training Luke can be so powerful. Just imagine if Luke had proper Jedi training at a young age.
@@AlexsFerrari Filoni also destroyed the EU long before Disney. He is no EU fan or ally. I've seen so many clueless idiots miss the mark - that any "love" he has it for is patronizing, in the same manner that Mr. Weasley "loved" Muggles over in the Harry Potter books.
@@datguy3581 Love how you're claiming that Luke would be "overpowered" if he was more powerful than Ahsoka when in reality it's just a fact. Ahsoka died to Vader while Luke ultimately prevailed over him. That says Luke's the more capable one.
what he really says is that his dueling technique with the lightsaber is better formed, in the disney canon they obviously don't have much idea of Luke's training, in the expanded universe I know that he receives knowledge about how the lightsaber is handled by Yoda, holocrons or another type of reference material, because his skill with the saber on the era of the new Jedi order was exceptional and prodigious, being able to face many Yuuzhan Vong at the same time with incredible speed
@@saberiandream316 That's not canon anymore so there's no reason to know that stuff. It was never really canon. At least that's how Lucas saw it anyway and why he had Filoni break with the EU.
@@robertocaetano4945 Well George Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney and gave the company to Kathleen Kennedy. So it's up to Disney to decide what's canon. George Lucas has no problem overriding the EU. The prequels did it. Clone Wars did it. His ST outlines did not follow the EU. Lucas didn't write in the EU.
I believe the issue is, and I've never checked out his shows or Disney Star Wars, so I could be wrong, that she still carries a lightsaber and fights with it. An ex-Jedi would not have those powers and abilities. Look at the EU, which showed a Jedi Master who wasn't really the most trained of his ilk, taking on Vader right after Mustafar, and Vader eventually beat Master Shryne. He only got stronger from there. While in Rebels, Ahsoka Force pushed Vader. That, realistically, does NOT happen and should not.
Yeah. Filoni doesn't want Luke to be a Gary stue. He's showing how his lightsaber style gets better with time an practice. The problem is that people are making excuses for why Luke should be better when it doesn't really make sense. Ahsoka is a very experienced force user and dualist. Although she isn't an official Jedi, she still continues many of her Jedi practices.
He should be stronger in both the force and with lightsabers because what Filoni forgets or doesn't say, is that Luke had direct access to the force ghosts of Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin. Logically, they would've trained him in their styles and knowledge in the post ROTJ period. In the real canon - approved by George - he also becomes the strongest Jedi in existence.
She is definitely more s killed, she's been trained by Plo Koon and Anakin in his prime, she's been in a war fighting countless enemies. Of course she is, there's no need for Filoni to clear that up. Luke's best trait was never his fighting skills. Luke's important because he was the only one who could turn Vader back; that's it. What he could've accomplished through the power of the force he inherited was a question that was left to our imagination. Filoni isn't denying that, in fact, Luke's portrayal in Mando is great because of that exactly. He isn't pit against any other character because that doesn't make sense for him, in story and in character. He's there to be compared only with the other versions of himself in the past, and there's been progress. The only thing I was concerned on seeing growing was his wisdom and his self- mastery, because we can only assume his teachers were force ghosts from the ending of Ep 6. And this is not the Filoniverse, he didn't even started writing on the Clone Wars 2nd season, he was a director and an animator. This all came from George originally, he's the one who made Ahsoka fight in the Clone Wars at the age of 14.
Wow comment section has me sad, I've been against Disney star wars. But reading the garbage here is making Disney's defense of 'toxic' fans seem true. Come on guys, we can better than this....
Yes. Luke is much stronger than her. In fact, George confirmed that Luke became the most powerful jedi, but obviously Filoni is biased with his pet and thinks she’s superior
@@OkIPullUp2915 Except Dave never says Ahsoka is stronger. Stop taking the bait. All he said is she has more training, and that's an indisputable fact. Luke was still able to accomplish more than her despite less training because he's stronger in the force. It's not complicated.
@@RandomGuy285 he still thinks that most council members are better than Luke. In fact, he probably does think that Ahsoka can beat Luke as he’s made Ahsoka beat Almost everyone she’s faced now, like Maul and Vader
@@OkIPullUp2915 Filoni is on record saying Ahoska did not and could not beat either Vader in Rebels or Maul in TCW. And Luke could beat Vader. It's not like Dave doesn't know that. You guys just want to be angry.
George Lucas created Both chracters.. Filoni, unlike Kennedy is a Lucas loyalist. He's Not bashing Luke, he's referencing Ahsoka's age, experience, & direct on-the- job training from Luke's father throughout the Clone Wars.
He is a loyalist. Had he not put the true Luke Skywalker into the Mandalorian, unbeknownst to Kennedy, the most recent impression of the character would be that fuckin mockery. Kennedy's bum ass disheveled hermit iteration..
I actually see zero proof that George directly created her past what could have been a discarded idea for Revenge of the Sith, and what is, of course, spin by the revisionists at Lucasfilm, who don't have your best interests at heart. Look at how often George talked about Star Wars being about boyhood, a boy's story, about our relationship with our fathers, and what Filoni says, that he came in WANTING to make it for the young girls, which was the marketing around TCW... you don't see an issue here? If you're going to take issue with Rey, you need to take issue with Ahsoka as well!
He's also very correct. Ahsoka objectively indisputably has a better lightsaber technique than Luke at this point in the timeline. She has fought more lightsaber wielders and Sith than him. She's had decades more life experience than Luke. She also trained in the Temple with some of the best jedi in the Order, something Luke didn't do. Luke didn't even train in lightsaber combat with a master. So anyone with a brain should be able to see that Ahsoka would have the more refined lightsaber technique.
@@JarJarAbrams A) Clone Wars is part of the canon B) Clone Wars was created by Lucas so it would be canon even without Disney taking over C) Ahsoka in no way is a mary sue. She has plenty of flaws and has a strong character arc. As for power levels, she's about what you'd expect someone who grew up in the Jedi temple to be like.
And it opened up a ton of interesting possibilities for where to take the Ahsoka character. I don't know what some peoples obsession with killing off characters is all about.
@@objektgerste6019 Luke's fate wasn't under Filoni's direct control. It seems pretty clear that Filoni is the one who gets to decide what happens to the Clone Wars and Rebels characters. I don't think Luke's death was the most amazing thing ever but it wasn't horrible by any means in my eyes. Part of it may have been to do with "passing the torch" in a way. Luke passed his torch to Rey. Ezra seems like he will be Ahsoka's successor in a way.
But Filoni is right. Some who has decades of experience, trained with the best masters in the Jedi Order, and fought multiple Sith should have a more refined lightsaber technique than a boy who only recently became a Jedi a few years ago.
@@datguy3581 I could argue with you until time stops but at the end of the day, you aren't convincing me that Ashoka is no different from Rey. One character everyone got used to through multiple seasons of TV shows, the other character didn't have nearly enough time for everyone to get used to. That's the difference, and you aren't convincing me.
@@FFF_de.r With the limited knowledge that we have on Coleman Trebor, he may have had better technique than Luke. He may not. There are other factors to consider. Perhaps he had not seen combat much. Perhaps he just had bad luck. Anyone can get shot by a blaster regardless of skill.
@civilwarfare101 That time it took for people to get used to her took place over a 3 year war that Ahsoka played major parts in, and gained alot of experience and council from multiple Jedi masters. Rey did an obstacle course a few times so I'd say there's a major difference
@@yasuke1709 That's the point, you got used Ashoka not because she was a well written character where if Rey got the TV show over the course of 3 years, you'd like her too. I think both characters aren't good but I am not going to act like Ashoka is well written because she existed in a time before Kathleen Kennedy took over the series, I am not blinded by hate boner PR dogma.
Well that makes sense. Luke was never said to be the strongest jedi in existence, sure he helped fulfil the prophecy, but he's not flawless. Not to mention this is technically still very early in Luke's journey as a jedi, it just means he still has some character development and growth ahead of him (well if tlj didn't ruin that future for him that is.) Obviously Luke is going to surpass Ahsoka with time, and probably by far, a journey I would love to see. We should not forget he had technically very little training compared to jedis during the republic.
Technically he was canonically the strongest Jedi in existence. He becomes the strongest in the canon in the post ROTJ period, approved by George when the franchise was still under his creative control. He also had access to the force ghosts of Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin. Logically it wouldn't take a lot for him to surpass her in skills and he's certainly significantly more powerful than her with the force. Filoni is over exaggerating her abilities, and what's interesting is that her live action character's portrayal - in season 2 of the Mandalorian - was no where near as powerful or impressive as Luke's performance in that final ep of that season, where he simply went through an army of powerful droids like it was nothing. Ahsoka struggled against characters on the show that would be quickly dispatched by the Luke of the final ep of season 2 of the Mandalorian. She may have more experience but the gap in power between the two is significant.
Yeah. Even in TLJ, as controversial as it is, Luke's power is never questioned. No other Jedi is able to use the force power he used in the end. I'm all for making Luke have a more gradual learning curve instead of learning everything needed to become a Jedi within what is about 3 years.
@@rpgadventurer32 George also visited the set for Mandalorian season 2 to help Filoni and Rosario bring Ahsoka to life. So I doubt he has a problem with her being as powerful as she is.
She's also a FAILED Jedi. And she still Force pushed Vader, so to say she has more training is sugarcoating the truth - SHE IS STRONGER IN THE FILONIVERSE.
@@saberiandream316 She didn't fail. The Jedi Order betrayed her. She surpassed heights that most Jedi reach because she chose her own path. If she wanted, she could've returned to the Order but she saw the error in their ways and did not return. And how is someone who regularly goes up against fore users at a young age not supposed to be powerful later in life? Why do the Skywalkers always have to be better than the new characters? Lucas didn't intend Anakin to be the most powerful force user. If you got a problem with her power level, you should complain about it to Lucas. He's the guy who decided that she should be fighting General Grevous and Ventrass at age 14.
@@datguy3581 Lmao!! The Order "betrayed" her? How? By reasonably following the evidence. Ahsoka acted like a total idiot in that arc. She made herself look increasingly guilty by running from the people trying to help her, fraternizing with a wanted criminal, attacking clones, endangering civilians, and further refusing to cooperate after finally being brought back to the Temple. If not for Anakin, Ahsoka would've been a goner. The Order didn't fail her, she failed herself. And no, Filoni was the one who decided his precious Mary Sue would be besting skilled Jedi killers at the age of 14. George was mostly just the bankroll.
@@saberiandream316 Failed? She was going to immediately get Knighted if she accepted the council's offer to return. She's a full blown Jedi Knight in all but name, not a failure.
First of all, this title is a bit misleading. Filoni did not say Ahsoka is stronger. He said she has better lightsaber form. This is because she was trained at the temple by Yoda and Anakin while Luke is mostly self taught at this point (in his early 20s). Also it's not just Filoni's mind. George Lucas was on set for the filming of part of Mandalorian season 2. So he gave input to Dave and Jon about how they should handle some of the legacy characters being brought in.
No lies or bs detected anywhere in Filoni's speech. It makes sense that Ahsoka would be more proficient (not "stronger") in lightsaber combat because she is older and has had more training within the Jedi Order when it was at it's peak. No where does Filoni say that Ahsoka is stronger than Luke, it just that their skill sets are slightly different because of their backgrounds and training. Video and title is complete clickbait, and you should ashamed of yourself for that.
Dave didn't really say that Ahsoka was stronger. He said she had better form which makes sense given that this is only a few years after ROTJ. Maybe Luke hasn't mastered all the lightsaber techniques. But I also wonder when George said Luke was the strongest Jedi. Because Dave did consult George Lucas during the filming of Mandalorian season 2 about how to best integrate Clone Wars characters that were created during George's time at Lucasfilm. Lucas actually visited the set during the filming of episode 5 to talk to Rosario Dawson.
If you were to put this into context, I think Filoni has a point. They're also two very different Jedi. She is very martial-arts focused, a war-time veteran duelist who specializes in acrobatics to try and disorient her opponents and get a sneaky hit in. Luke specializes in heavy defensive stances, much like Vader, as he closes in to his opponents to slice them down in one or two hits. If he can't get close or it wouldn't be advntageous to do so, he utilizes the Force in an offensive manner to defeat his opponents. Ahsoka is very much a dexterity-based close-combat duelist. Luke is a defensive-duelist and utilizes force powers much more than she can. If the two were to fight it out? Luke would win, hands down. While she is impressive with her lightsaber style, Luke would still have the flexibility to utilize his defensive stance to hold her off. Then he'd just throw her around with some force telekinesis. Filoni isn't outright saying Ahsoka is better/stronger than Luke. She's different and can still hold her own for sure, but not against Luke.
Obviously she is stronger than Luke, she is older and had proper training. Experience trumps all. Filoni, at not point, says she is stronger than Luke but I wouldn't be surprised if she is considering shes about 20 years older and fought in many battles. This title sounds like you're trying to rile people up for no reason.
Experience doesn’t mean anything in Star Wars when you’re fighting someone more powerful. Qui-Gon was older than Maul and he still fought the two Jedi for a decent amount of time. Dooku was older than Anakin in ROTS and still lost.
@@GladDori of what we know she is more experienced but we don’t know canon of what Luke was up to since ROTJ. He took out all the dark troopers like it was nothing he never wavered once
@@PhantomDeth And I love the irony of you trying to play it off as if Luke beat the emperor by himself and completely excluding Vaders major role in the situation. Not to mention the fact that the point you’re failing to prove has literally nothing to do with the actual topic. The whole point Feloni made was Ashoka has more training and experience than Luke. What does Luke turning his Father back to the light so he could kill the emperor have to do with that?
@@RandomPersonProbably Vader didn't do it the entire time.. Luke was the reason for it.. Luke was always the reason.. Luke beat his father and refused to end him out of love.. That is the reason the Emperors reign ended.. That you can't grasp this is hilarious.. Vader tried to beat the Emperor.. Failed.. Only with Luke did that change and that's because Luke changed him.
@@PhantomDeth Gotta love how you ignored a whole 3rd of my comment except the part where I say Luke didn’t Solo the emperor then say I do g grasp the situation. Yes Luke saving his father was the reason the emperor was killed. What I’m saying is Luke did not kill the emperor through his lightsaber/force abilities and he used his connection with his father to bring Vader back to the light to save the galaxy. Now I want you to really focus on what I am saying here. What does Luke reasoning with his father have to do with Ashoka being older and having more formal training and experience with a lightsaber than Luke which is the entire topic of this video you are commenting on.
Obi wan was taught by the Jedi Order. Luke did teach himself how to sword fight and that is why he is not yet at the level of Ahsoka, who had decades to hone her skills which she learned from Anakin, Plo Moon, Obi wan, and Yoda.
@@datguy3581 I don't care about ahsoka...I'm not talking about her, I can give two 💩's about her. What I'm saying is after Obi Wan lost Qui Gon he was older enough and trained enough to train himself, while he was teaching Anakin, just like Luke after return of the jedi...he didn't have that much experience like Obi-Wan, but he sure did teach himself something with Yoda....and dave needs to see that...and maybe Luke went somewhere, that we don't know about yet, that he got more training.
She's in her 20s when he's born and has significantly more training. He only trained with Yoda for a few days? She had almost the entire Clone War of training from the Jedi Temple in it's prime before the Empire. Sure, Luke is the chosen one, but even Yoda can beat Darth Vader.
@@JarJarAbrams Why not? There can be plenty of easy explanations for where she was in the OT era and ROTS doesn't contradict the idea that she's around.
@@ia5662 I can't stand the people who praise Filoni's writing like it's some kind of masterpiece. That disgusting hack doesn't even understand basic writing rules like "Show vs Tell" or "Checkov's Gun." And he clearly has no concept of consistency either. Seriously, the issues with his writing are SO OBVIOUS. How the heck do people not see it unless they're being willfully ignorant??
I don't know if you actually watched the documentary or not but what he does is that he doesn't make Luke an overpowered Gary stue who has mastered lightsaber combat despite not having much formal teaching. Ahsoka is a better dualist because she has decades of experience and trained under some of the greatest Jedi of the clone wars. You'd know this if you weren't biased.
See, shit like this is why it’s easy to demonise Star Wars fans as sexists when you overreact to every little thing as if your childhood is disappearing before your eyes when nowhere in this did he say that Ashoka is stronger than Luke
Jar Jar Abrams IS a proven sexist and incel, even if we share a general agreement that the ST is bad. He also said on Twitter that 1917 is a war film for soyboys.
@@DayBowBow Because there are moments in the movie where the main character Schofield shows vulnerability, like with him crying at one point and looking after a woman and a orphaned baby. No joke, that was legit his reasoning for it.
@@ericsantucci6934 wow. I kinda feel bad for jarjar now. Even Rambo in first blood showed alot of vulnerability, hell in Rambo 2 his last speech made every man tear drop. That's what makes him such a great character. Jar jar must have a very warped perception of reality when it comes to his own self and men in general.
Yeah, fans will keep defending Ahsoka and treat Filoni as some kind of god who respects the lore and George Lucas, an EU nerd and a savior, to which he is none of the above, to the point Ahsoka is going to be overexposed and everyone loses interest. Can't wait for that day.
He will be. Not yet though. He's still young and inexperienced. Bringing Vader to the light is a remarkable achievement but he still has more to learn at this point.
@@ScaryManiac LOL. It's a silly debate because these are fictional characters but George Lucas himself said that Luke was the most powerful Jedi ever. And Disney's canon, despite how controversial it is, still upholds that Luke is the most powerful Jedi.
@@thomas8431 It's worth noting that Filoni didn't say that Ahsoka was stronger than Luke. He said she had better form than Luke. There is more to being a Jedi than lightsaber form. And I think that's a good decision on Filoni's part. Dueling skills are developed by experience in Star Wars so it makes sense that Luke is not at his peak quite yet. Also it's worth noting that George Lucas did help Dave bring Ahsoka to live action so I doubt he really has a problem with the portrayal.
This is why Ahsoka should have been killed off before ROTJ. Her, Obi Wan and Anakin ought to have been reunited in death, but Filoni is too attached to her because she’s basically his OC.
I do agree with that. I have mixed feelings. While she should’ve died by now, my hope is that they can still do interesting things with her while she’s still alive. I want to see her and Luke actually interact and such, since she’s Luke’s only remaining living connection to Anakin.
@@stoichiometryc8462 No, but it does weaken the theme of Return of The Jedi, which is Luke being the first of the New Jedi Order that isn't burdened by the Jedi Code of the Prequels.
Well if you ask Lucas, he seems to like him. He worked with him for years on the Clone Wars and even came back to the set of the Mandalorian to help him with bringing Ahsoka to live aciton
Mandalorian happens almost in the same time that Dark Empire comics...in the comics Luke fought aganist Sidious in his prime and won. And Eu is Canon, not what Disney created...so Luke would wipe the floor with her. She training and left the order while she was a Padawan...so she not complete her training. Luke fought a war too, not only Ahsoka. Luke was much more talent, much more focus and learn whats is most important. He is like the Bruce Lee of the Jedi. He uses what he learn from Holocrons and Yoda to improve his style and create a new way of fighiting and his force power help him a lot. He is the chosen one son...simply that. Filoni dont know shit about SW.
Um... the EU isn't canon whether you want it to be or not. It doesn't matter what happened in the EU because it's a new canon. Luke isn't completely overpowered in the new canon. Luke was not trained much in lightsaber combat. Ahsoka had years to practice in the Order before getting experience in the field fighting Ventrass, Grevous, and Maul. She was trained by the literal chosen one. She has decades of experience. Ahsoka continued to be a Jedi after she left the Order. She just didn't have any ties to the Order so she wasn't officially a Jedi. Luke's war was fought years after the Clone Wars. Don't forget Ahsoka was involved in the fight against the Empire too. She went toe to toe with Darth Vader before entering the world between worlds. She has the experience, knowledge, and skill to be a Jedi master if she wanted to be. Do you really think learning from holocrons is better then learning from Anakin Skywalker, Obi wan Kenobi, and Plo Koon? Yoda trained Ahsoka longer than he trained Luke. Ahsoka has her own distinct style too. Luke is in his 20s. He has a long time to grow and become a Jedi master. He shouldn't be some Gary Stue like character. It doesn't matter who is stronger. Arguably Luke is stronger in his prime (which he has not yet reached). Being the son of the chosen one doesn't make someone overpowered. He isn't better and doesn't need to be better.
This man really say Dave don’t know anything about Star Wars?😂 He is literally George Lucas apprentice bro. He knows more than anyone after George. George Lucas the creator of Star Wars wouldn’t side with you on this one buddy
I mean... yeah. She has had more training than him. Wouldn't call her _stronger_ per se, but she's definitely more skilled than him. She's like, what, 3 decades older than Luke?
You Filoni fans need to do more research. EU fans have hundreds of hours put into attack files on him that shows he's every bit the problem as anyone else working there, we just got hit the hardest first, but make no mistake, the same hubris and smug indifference is coming to all the rest of fandom - you got a firsthand taste in 2017, and Filoni has nothing but respect for Kennedy and Johnson, he's said this, he considers Johnson a mentor. Stop the mental gymnastics, please!
Some people seem to just really hate anything non EU. It seems like they want Luke to be some Gary stu character but he never was. It wouldn't make sense that he'd mastered lightsaber combat in such a short time without a professional teacher.
This is an issue this sucker has created. Ahsoka Tano should have never met Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker. She was not only trained by Jedis but she was trained by Anakin Skywalker and she was closely watched by Obi Wan Kenobi too and many times he gave her advices, she was able to observe him closely and learn. But the biggest advantage over Luke Skywalker is that Ahsoka have combat experience... plenty of it. She would absolutely would be more than capable of training Grogu. But sadly these are issues created by Dave Filoni. Decent Star Wars fans should know Feloni and Disney does not care for Lore or story.
To be fair, there is a reason that Ahsoka doesn't train Grogu. She still feels guilty about Anankin and Ezra presumably. As for why she isn't in the OT, that is something we will learn when her show comes out.
Luke had plenty of combat experience in the years of fighting the Empire so that is not accurate, he's also near the peak of his power and was taught directly by Obi Wan and Yoda and continued to learn from them as force ghosts and from his own studies in the years after ROTJ. The character is not part of the George Lucas canon, she doesn't fit with the original timeline, that is the biggest problem. She may have more overall experience but he's significantly more powerful than her.
@@rpgadventurer32 George Lucas created Ahsoka. He was on set during the filming of the Mandalorian to oversee Ahsoka's transition into live action. Whether you like her or not, she is clearly part of George's vision for Star Wars.
Filone spoke the truth. However, that Luke's scene is ridiculous. He's extremely overpowered and the choreography just makes the robots look even dumber. Precisely the choreography and direction of the episode already had made the characters look super dumb in comparison to the robots.
He's not over powered at all, he's supposed to be the most powerful Jedi in George Lucas's canon. It's nothing compared to how strong he got in the EU, in fact he's underpowered in Disney's Star Wars.
How? Her story is powerful and enhances Anakins. The world between worlds opens up a ton of possibility for future storytelling. Ahsoka being more skilled with a lightsaber at this point makes sense since she's older and has more training.
Also it's kinda stupid. Anyone who isn't clouded by OT fanboy rage should be able to recognize that Ahsoka is far more experienced than Luke and should have a more refined saber technique.
@@FFF_de.r At this point in the story, Ahsoka may very well have surpassed Vader. She's lived about the same length as Vader as of Mandalorian. She's also had experiences we don't know about with the force since the end of Rebels. Also having a more refined lightsaber technique does not equate to defeating Sith Lords. Qui Gon Jin was most likely more skilled than Obi wan in TFM. Same goes for Ahsoka and Luke. Luke defeated Vader but that doesn't mean that he is stronger than Ahsoka. A lot of lightsaber fights don't come down to just who is the strongest. Otherwise Vader would probably have beaten Obi wan on Mustafar.
@@datguy3581 Luke is far stronger than Ahsoka. It's not even remotely close. He's Anakin's genetic equal, though with far better temperament and balance. Lucas said he was the most powerful Jedi ever with twice the power of peak Palpatine/ Yoda. Disney actually ups this in canon by saying the Skywalkers have "virtually unlimited power and ability to use the force." Luke with 7 years of training is still vastly more powerful than Ahsoka with 20 years. "Saber refinement" aside, it's a silly question, all things being equal Luke is far more powerful than Ahsoka, and that's axiomatic.
@@thomas8431 In the new canon, force abilities are determined by more then just genetics. While some people have more natural talent, anyone can use the force under the proper conditions with the proper time and effort. The force isn’t something that just a few special people can use because of their superior bloodlines. Now I still argue that there’s a good chance that Ahsoka is better than Luke at this point. But we don’t know for sure. That being said, it’s completely reasonable for Ahsoka to have better lightsaber technique at this point. Luke is self taught while Ahsoka was mentored by the best in the order and fought multiple duals against powerful opponents.
Filoni didn't actually say Ahsoka is stronger. He said at this point (when Ahsoka was in her 40s and Luke was in his 20s), Ahsoka had better lightsaber form because of her formal training in the Order with Yoda and Anakin. But there's more to being a Jedi than just lightsaber form. There's connection to the force. There's finding balance. There's overcoming trauma, etc. It's fair to criticize Rian Johnson all you want but in The Last Jedi, Luke was using force powers that no other Jedi has been shown to use ever.
Makes sense to me. Luke is not even at his most powerful state at this point in time. Sure, Luke would become the most powerful jedi, but that would probably take a few more years, maybe even a decade.
@@rpgadventurer32 There's more to becoming a Jedi than lightsaber form. Ahsoka may be better when it comes to dualling but that doesn't mean she is the strongest Jedi. Luke may actually have a stronger connection to the force and has already found balance and delt with his traumas while Ahsoka hasn't.
He's a fake lore master. Just very good at skimming Wookieepedia, and he loves changing it in minor ways to get nitpicking fans furious. It's the same old gaslighting from Lucasfilm. He has malicious motives the same as all others working there. Remember, this is the SAME MAN who gender-swapped a male character to female. He is either far more ignorant on lore than he pretends or changes it. There is no in between on this.
You know, it does actually make sense she has more skill when it comes to fighting because she was trained by Anakin and has lived longer than Luke. Think of how she survived order 66 and the empire. Even so, Luke is more powerful in the force. Ahsoka is not all powerful, just had more years than Luke of training with a lightsaber:
Filoni has insisted for YEARS that was never canon, so don't buy into this claim that he somehow has such "deep love" for Legends, _that_ is just Filoni groupies trying to make sure their savior doesn't have even ONE single negative mark on his record, so he looks flawless, when no human being can be utterly pure saintly perfect perfection. And if it was never canon, they'd have never needed to rebrand it "Legends" anyway. He's like all the others, he likes taking from the EU to act like he did it first. He even says in one of the new canon books they'd have a "united canon" for "the first time" in Star Wars history! Except the EU has done that the whole time. The man is trash.
Cause of course someone who has no Jedi master teach him sword fighting would be better than the person who got training directly from Anakin Skywalker himself
Ahsoka is one of the most overrated characters to be in Star Wars. She isn’t horrible, but she most defiantly overstayed her welcome. She should have died at the end of the Clone Wars show. Losing his apprentice would have been another reason Anakin got closer to the dark side.
She think his death versus vader would be more appropriate, imagine the emotional shock that would have been felt. For me it was the best way for its exit. It would have made sense and no need to invent a mystical place that goes back in time -_-'
Ahsoka is just a lame version of Starkiller without any of his weaknesses. Ahsoka also for some reason has full immunity against even getting seduced by dark side.
Ikr?? It's so annoying. Judging by her behavior, she should've fallen to the dark side long before Anakin did. She literally comes across as a sociopath. And it's even more disturbing when you think about the fact that her character was created to appeal to kids.
Not every Jedi character has to fall to the dark side. She has a ton of strengths and weaknesses and those traits differentiate her from the characters that came before her.
So Ahsoka is the one without weaknesses and has crazy plot armor. But Starkiller isn’t when he dead ass takes down a star destroyer and the entire imperial army by himself right?😂 makes sense
@@imyouralibi6208 How does she come across as a sociopath? Also she doesn't have to be tempted by the dark side to be a good character. Ahsoka comes across as an overconfident teenager at first. She's young and ambitious. But she is humbled through loss in the war and comes out of it was a greater maturity but also greater trauma.
Filoni has always been narcissistic when it comes to his pet character, to the point it feels that she was more his creation's than George Lucas's (and there is no direct evidence to refute that theory, anyway), so this is not shocking. But the lengths the Filoni groupies will go to in order to defend this is beyond belief. Put this in the mouth of JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson, how would you react? Yeah. Especially since he destroyed the lore LONG before Disney.
@@shawnjones7295 People seem to forget that George and Dave worked together to create Ahsoka. George was the executive producer for Clone Wars and had the final say on everything. He even went to visit the set of the Mandalorian to help Dave bring Ahsoka to live action.
yay diminish Lukes character more why don't you I thought jj and rian already did that. yeah it makes sense but tbh I miss the days when the only jedi and sith left was luke, yoda, obi, vader and palpatine. I didn't think about "oh I wonder if there's more" cause I didn't care Luke's story was the only one that mattered and should be the only one that matters. give us legends not this confusing mess filoni and favreau are making thats full of plot holes that directly contradicts Lucas's orginal canon. ashoka is just filonis pet and he rose her way above her station she should have died fighting Maul atleast then the new timelines wont be so confusing.
How does Luke still having more to learn and not being the greatest Jedi ever while in his 20's diminish his character or his achievements? Why should Luke be the only Jedi left? Why should he be the only one that matters? In my eyes, more characters and stories are a good thing. Ahsoka could've died fighting Maul. But Luke also could've been killed by the Emperor after turning Vader to the light. Both confrontations were ending chapters of their lives and could've been stopping points. Legends is still there if you want to read it. No one has taken it away. But don't pretend that Legends didn't have its fair share of continuity problems and contradictions to Lucas' work. Lucas was the one who created Ahsoka. He's also the one who hired Filoni. He also brought Maul back to life. Clone Wars is Lucas' canon.
A lot of people don't get it yet, but Filoni is gonna start to annoy people in the future. The guy has a very narrow view of what Star Wars is supposed to be, guy thinks you can't make anything Star Wars be dark because it needs to be for kids. For 23 years the EU proved that wasn't true. I'm tired of this guy already.
"And now you want to take that away from them and make it dark and sinister and evil?" I agree the normies don't like that, or do they? Audiences liked Aliens and Predator. But whatever. The IDEA of the casual customer base is what Disney chases, and that... is why they fail. As a Jedi Master we know might say.
I don't think Filoni even understands what "kid's content" is. Just look at TCW. It's very obviously directed at kids yet it's chock full of adult topics which are COMPLETELY inappropriate for kids.
@@imyouralibi6208 Yeah, which, by the way, some of the best "kid's shows" dealt with pretty heavy stuff at times. Look at Teen Titans (the original show), Avatar, Korra and likely Steven Universe, though I haven't watched much of it myself. Point is, some of the best cartoons I remember as a kid were ones that said stuff I didn't entirely understand yet and had to figure out. I enjoyed that a lot of Expanded Universe content never treated its audience like morons, regardless of the age the piece of content was for.
Yes, Ahsoka was overpowered by Filoni...its Sad...after George Lucas Star Wars dies. Luke is the chosen one son, the most powerful jedi acording GL. But Ahsoka...is older some Disney shills may say...but If this logic was true...Yoda cannot be defeated because he is older and more experienced than anyone...how Palpatine won? Of course quantity of training isnt equal to hard training and quality.
But Luke hasn't mastered light saber combat at this point. And why should he have? He had no Jedi master to teach him advanced lightsaber combat. Ahsoka learned a lot of her lightsaber technique directly from Anakin Skywalker himself. And she spent a lot more time with Yoda and Obi wan than Luke did. You sound like one of those people who defend Rey being the most powerful Jedi. You ignore all the time, effort, and experience that Ahsoka put in. How many real lightsaber fights did Luke get into? 2. How many did Ahsoka get into? Quite a bit more than that in just the Clone Wars alone.
@@rfdempire49 She broke the lore, before Disney. Yet the children and older fans who fell into TCW won't ever admit that show is extremely overrated, the same as Filoni. Look at what he's like, look what Rebels was without George there to hold his hand, yet he knows if he just gives them a half-truth, they'll make excuses for him. Like somehow trying to mentally erase him out of Star Wars Resistance, even though he oversaw the whole damned thing. It's dark times for Star Wars because he first pulled the wool over the eyes of fandom in 2008, and it's never stopped since then...
How is a character who never learned official light saber combat supposed to be better than someone who was trained by Anakin Skywalker himself and has had a ton of experience with war. Ahsoka is decades older than Luke. Wouldn't Luke being super OP at this stage just make him a Gary stue? I don't want that.
Filoni said that during the Mandalorian, Ahsoka is more experienced than Luke which is an indisputable fact given that she is about 20 years older than him.
To those who have an issue with him saying “Ashoka is stronger than Luke” He isn’t wrong. Obviously not stronger than him in the force, but combat wise she is. She is older, has far more experience, and is his superior in every way.
He is wrong, Luke by that point is near his peak of his power, canonically he is the strongest Jedi, he should be taught by the force ghosts of Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan. They are the ones who are his teachers past ROTJ, so why wouldn't he know who was teaching him sword fighting? He's just putting his own created character above the one created by George. There's no reason she should be considered his senior even with her age and experience.
@@rpgadventurer32 Luke may be powerful but he doesn't have the experience of Ahsoka. Ahsoka was taught by a living breathing Yoda, Anakin, and Obi wan. And she fought Ventrass, Grievous, Maul, Vader, and various Inquisitors to varying degrees of success. According to Filoni, Luke has surpassed the point he was at in ROTJ but still has more to learn. Even experienced people having more to learn is a large theme in both Lucas and Filoni's work. To quote Anakin in the Ahsoka series, you are never too old to learn. Also George Lucas was literally on set during the filming of Mandalorian season 2 giving feedback about the handling of Ahsoka - a character he created with Filoni - so I think he's fine with it.
So David said something more troubling he don't know who was teaching Luke how to fight with a lightsaber . Which means they don't have a decent story group and free styling this shit lol. KK really needs to go Disney going to destroy star wars.
@@Longshanks1690 Filoni knows jack shit about the EU, but he is good at skimming online. He sure does put in the most effort of anyone there, but quits halfway to go play with his toys.
So Ahsoka didn't know about Luke or that Vader turned away from the Darkside? That was odd. This show is placed after the return of the jedi and it seemed as it's been years since the jedi seem like they've been away a long long time now when in reality it's been like 20 years. Imagine that, in 20 years or so a war that torn the galaxy apart was reduced to myths and legends but in this planet we live in we still remember WW2 and shame people about things that happened BEFORE their lifetime. Also rememver that Ahsoka left the jedi order and didn't finish her training so swordsmanship wise she should have more experience goven how she did battle in the clone wars BUT Luke was able to defeat Vader, no small feat there.
I assume that Ahsoka has heard about Luke but maybe she just can't deal with anything related to Anakin or his legacy. I imagine she might also know that he's gone. Her relationship with Anakin was so strong that potentially she may have tried to suppress it or something. Who knows.
She was probably the greatest padawan during the clone wars. She would have been made a knight if she rejoined the order. And people always ignore that Vader held back in his fights with Luke
@@shawnjones7295 color me blind but in the return of the jedi Luke pummels Vader into submission. You mean to say that Vader held back in there and let Luke cut his hand?
@@SimoPortti Vader was literally ordered by the emperor to help turn Luke to the darkside. He was holding back greatly but he was caught off guard by how Luke used the darkside against him. If Vader really wanted Luke dead he would be. Luke didn’t even know how to block with lightning at that point
Screw Filoni - Ahsoka being Luke's senior, forgot that. She should have been dead long before Luke was even around, it's thanks to the king shoehorner himself that she's even in the Mandalorian, quite unbelievably. The same guy who sings Ahsoka's praises and dominance is the same guy who apparently forgets she was NEVER in the Original Trilogy, never helped the Rebels in their most important battles against the Empire and was never around when the only lightsaber wielders were Vader, Obi-Wan, Yoda, The Emperor and Luke - (technically Leia later). There is no way in hell that Ahsoka is better or more superior to Luke in any way - what a joke. All he wants to do is petulantly put HIS stamp on Star Wars and trod straight over the pre-established boundaries and canon of the OT.
@@rfdempire49 not necessarily I’m just finding it hilarious of y’all getting so triggered beyond belief over a fictional character’s fictional power level being less of another. Like that’s so sad and embarrassing 😂
@@bosuper9403 "It's fiction, bruh!" ignores that nitpicking is a guard of quality control. When you don't have that, quality suffers. And Filoni either is far more ignorant on lore than he likes to preen about, or he changes it in small ways to trigger nitpicking fans. It's just a minor, softer, more subtle variation of the constant gaslighting at Lucasfilm. This is not him having a gun to his head, either. He's just a smug little man who thinks he's more important than he really is. I mean, without George there to hold his hand, his shows don't get that much ratings. Rebels consistently got around under half a million views, and that's BEFORE moving it to Disney XD. That's fine for the few people who actually like his shit, but it shows his reach is VERY narrow, and always has been. This man is no savior of Star Wars. At all.
Do you know what a Mary Sue is? A Mary Sue is a character with minimal flaws so you are objectively incorrect. You can't just call every female character you don't like a Mary Sue. Otherwise it doesn't have any meaning at all and the feminist types who say its sexist are correct.
@@datguy3581Have you ever heard of the Mary Sue subcategories such as the Black Hole Sue, Jerk Sue, and Neutrality Sue? Because Ahsoka perfectly fits into those three categories. Plus, her "flaws" are all surface level and have no meaningful consequences for her character since the writers incessantly sweep her mistakes under the rug and try to paint her as a saint.
@@imyouralibi6208 Her flaws are just as real and prevalent as any other Star Wars character. Most of the characters get painted in a positive light by the writers. I don’t know what your talking about. Ahsoka is constantly failing and dealing with consequences of those failures. But she learns from her mistakes to become a better Jedi. She’s a lot more complex than many classic OT characters.
The Mandalorian is nostalgia-baiting garbage, none of the new characters have any personality traits, they are simply devices for the contrived plot to move along.
I'd rather watch the older Stargate shows than check out any of the new movies and TV shows. I'd be more interested in new Legends books and comics, but Lucasfilm is too vain and petty to license any more of those.
Not true at all. The characters definitely have a character. It isn't the deepest or most complex Star Wars show by any means but characters like Mando, Ahsoka, Bo, and Boba have character and have stuff going on. And Moff Gideon has a pretty strong personality. Also Grogu has a good amount of character considering that he's a puppet who doesn't talk.
Nah. Filoni created some great characters. And this clip just shows how much care he puts into things. He made sure Luke's fighting style was well though out and realistic to what he'd be like a few years after ROTJ.
Actually Clone Wars is canon and it looks like Ahsoka will have a big part to play in the future of live action Star Wars unlike Luke who is now just part of the past
The mandalorian Is a forgettable mediocre show. If it didn't have the star wars paint job it'd already be forgotten. It's not special and it won't "save star wars"
I can guarantee you Book of Boba Fett will have far smaller ratings than they had previously, for three reasons. 1) Grogu is gone, 2) The Jake cameo is over, and 3) The controversy around the Gina Carano firing, which had even certain mainstream outlets like Forbes getting in on the act, or late-night talk show hosts such as Bill Maher. If they're talking about it, that's bad for Disney Star Wars.
@@virgogaming6488 I feel like clone wars proved you can go risky on tv though. Stuff like dedicating 5 episodes of clone wars to the Whills of the force could be considered risky but it paid off. I feel like the Ahsoka series may be the one that pushes the boundaries but we don't know for sure yet.
@@ericsantucci6934 Star Wars has been dead since the force awakens. Disney does not have what it takes to make good Star Wars. Ahsoka should have died during or shortly after Order 66.
Ahsoka is the biggest Mary-Sue in the franchise to me. She should have died in her duel with Vader, the fact she lived ruins Luke's journey in the OT. *"Luke, when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be... except Ahsoka for, alive and well she is, help you she could, but... 'busy' she is."* - Yoda
THANK YOU! Someone finally understands, unlike the droves of Millennial Ahsoka fanboys and apologists. I swear it's because they find a cartoon attractive, her character SUCKS and so does Filoni and his hack writing. Favreau is legit the only thing keeping the Mandalorian good and afloat with fans.
Lol you're a complete idiot, you have no idea what a mary sue is. Ashoka is one of the most developed star wars characters We saw her literally grow up in her entire arc. She started out as a inexperienced child that went through 2 wars and genocide.
anyone else notice ahsoka a character he created and constantly fangirls over showed up in the clone wars at the age of like 12 half naked wearing nothing but a small tube top and skin tight leggings but then she got more and more clothes as she got older? its only mildly suspicious lol hilarious if done by accident which is the likely case but then again.... Hollywood
Remember in 2008 when Ahsoka was considered a threat to the whole franchise? Good times.
She was garbage then.;
@@thesentinel5523 that's just an excuse by fans who can't admit they were wrong
@@Enriiiiiii well she was 😂 it was a known fact she clawed her way to become everyone’s top 10 character
@@thesentinel5523 and she still is and will always be
Because she broke lore. Not just the EU, the movies, and it was asked if she broke lore, and Filoni just laughed it off and threw responsibility back onto George, for which I have my doubts. No one is denying George is his own worst enemy, but _I_ think Filoni played on that and abused it to get what he wanted and further tarnish his reputation. He's manipulative.
Also, tbh, I personally felt while watching Mando season 2 that Luke was more impressive than Ahsoka was. Using the force to crush droids and such and slicing them like butter. Ahsoka was impressive too but not to the same degree.
So not sure what the problem is here. He’s right that she’s older and has more experience but that doesn’t make her better necessarily. He didn’t say that in this clip.
Right. Luke probably has more natural power in the Force but he's still years behind in training to Ahsoka. Ahsoka would have a more fluid lightsaber technique.
also in the disney canon they obviously don't have much idea of Luke's training, in the expanded universe I know that he receives knowledge about how the lightsaber is handled by Yoda, holocrons or another type of reference material, because his skill with the saber on the new Jedi order era was exceptional and prodigious, being able to face many Yuuzhan Vong at the same time with incredible speed
Sexists gotta mispresent facts so they get rage clicks. Geeks and Gamers loved TLJ until he saw how foolish the conservatives are, then he embraced it
He's trolling. That's what he does, in a subtle way, to try to get a rise out of the older fans (like minor botches to lore details) while pandering to children, at the same time those he panders to, like the older fans, can't see how he's insulting them, how he holds them in total contempt. It's just a softer version of the gaslighting at Lucasfilm.
More time of training means nothing. Quality over quantity. If more time mean more stronger, so Yoda couldnt lose for Sidious.
This guy trying to stir up arguments in the fanbase 🤡 pathetic
That’s what his whole channel is about 😂
@@Ar021 na we are totally united against hating the sequels, but let’s not spread false information like this video was doing
Hold the phone. He didn't say ashoka was better. He said she had more experience than luke which is true. She lived over 20 years longer than luke, had training from the jedi when they were at their peak, was trained by the chosen one, fought in 2 wars and had a healthy amount of character growth. Something you need to remember as well is that brining in Luke was both he and favorou"s idea to give us the real luke skywalker. If he really wanted to have ashoka outshine luke they would have had her rescue grogu, not luke skywalker.
When a failed Jedi can Force push Vader, what does that tell you?
@@saberiandream316 that multiple people over decades of time have been trying to adapt the incoherent garbage world of george lucas into the franchise we love now. There’s a few loose ends that really don’t matter/so insignificant it’s not worth mentioning, like what you said .
@@woozie_ztfo9285 To me it says Filoni's always been a hack, and yet when confronted with that, I notice people resort to bashing the EU, the universe he undermined.
Then why didn't she defeat Darth Vader maybe there is a reason in rebels but i haven't seen it. Point is Luke was able to defeat Vader and as far as i know ashoka couldn't
@@disma4191 Vader always held back greatly in his fights with Luke while Vader went all out on Luke
He is back. JarJar Abrams.
Unfortunately.
The true Sith has yet to reveal themselves
Nothing here should be controversial. She has vastly more lightsaber training and experience than Luke, so from a technical standpoint she knows more than he does. But Luke was a prodigy who makes up for that with raw talent. That's nothing we didn't already know in the OT. Basically all the Jedi from the old Republic knew more than Luke. They were raised in the temple practically from birth. Luke got a crash course when he was like 20 years old.
Dave was talking strictly about lightsaber styles, not strength in the force. He doesn't believe Ahsoka is stronger in the force than Luke.
Fuck off, Luke even beat Darth Vader.
Exactly. I don't get why some people want Luke to be a Gary stue. He was never the greatest lightsaber dualist. Why not let him have some flaws especially since he's still very young?
@@datguy3581 Lmao!! How would Luke be a Gary Stu?? It's just a fact that he's more powerful than Ahsoka. The fact that you're getting so butthurt over it indicates that *you* are in fact the biased one here.
@@imyouralibi6208 How am I biased? Your the one insisting a boy with no formal training is a better dualist than someone with decades of experience who was trained by Anakin, Obi wan, and Yoda for a significant amount of time. Someone who has gone up against multiple lightsaber wielding foes likes Grevous, Ventrass, and Maul. Ahsoka was able to damage Vader’s helmet significantly and almost overcame him.
But of course Luke is the most powerful because he’s y’all’s favorite.
@@JarJarAbrams holy fuck, you're such a manchild. 😂
Well yes… she has more training….
I don't know.. the EU Luke Skywalker pretty powerful.
@@mclovin4495 This isn't the EU
@@mclovin4495 Maybe Ahsoka will give him some training
@@mclovin4495 true, but Filoni is just talking about this specific point in time. Luke still has a long journey ahead to become as powerful as he was in the eu, before he ultimately ruins all of that so the sequels can happen that is ofcourse
@@mclovin4495 I mean as far as I know Ashoka cant force project herself across the galaxy. So clearly Luke does surpass her in canon.
Yes Ashoka has more training but Luke has more potential because he’s the son of the chosen one
Ahsoka isn't even a character who was created by George, she was created as a side character in an animated show by Filoni. Luke canonically becomes the strongest Jedi, in the canon approved by George before Disney threw it to the sidelines after 2012.
Why you booing him? He’s right.
And this is how Filoni gets away with it, undeserved fan goodwill because they buried all his skeletons and don't want them to ever surface again.
@@saberiandream316 Sad yet true 😔
@@imyouralibi6208 What skeletons are we talking about? I don't see a thing wrong with what Filoni said.
@@datguy3581 The fact that Filoni loved and defended Rey. The fact that he retconned the EU into oblivion and thus spat on the legacy of much more talented writers by twisting what they had made into some subpar version of it that suited his own purposes. Saberian Dream was spot on when he called Filoni a narcissist because that's *exactly* what he is.
@@imyouralibi6208 Whats wrong with defending Rey? She was an okay character in TFA. She definitely wasn’t a Mary Sue or whatever at that point. Filoni defended the decision to have her beat Kylo Ren which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Filoni didn’t retcon the EU. Lucas did that. Filoni just did his job which was to make Star Wars content for the canon. I’ve never seen any suggestion that Filoni thinks his work is better than the EU. That is something you people project onto him.
I mean it's a weird feeling yeah, cause it does feel like Luke should be older lmao
Really shows how conditional everyone’s love for Ashoka really is…
Always hated it
She defeated Darth Maul when he fucking overpowered Obi Wan and Qui Gonn.
@@civilwarfare101 No
@@firestriker3580
Typical Ashoka fanboy.
@@civilwarfare101 How is that a bad thing though? She had a ton of experience in the field and a ton of training at the temple. I don't see why she shouldn't be able to beat Maul. In fact, a lot of lightsaber battles in canon are not about who is "stronger" but rather the headspace of the people in the battle and whether they give way to emotion. Obi wan beat Anakin in ROTS because of Anakin's arrogance and overconfidence. That's the same reason Ahsoka beat Maul. It's less about power levels and more about the fatal flaws in the Sith mindset and ideology.
Why is that a problem? She's older and had training from some of the best Jedi in the Order. Luke hasn't had official lightsaber combat training at this point for all we know.
Doesnt matter. Luke have training for years now, he surpass Ahsoka at this point. In this same time, Luke fought aganist Sidious in his prime and win.
@@robertocaetano4945 Luke didn't physically beat Sidious. He beat him by turning Vader to the light. That doesn't equate to lightsaber skill. Correct me if I'm wrong but in the current canon, I don't believe Luke has had a lightsaber instructor at this point.
@@robertocaetano4945 If Sidious was in his prime and Luke in his prime, who do you think would be superior?
@@robertocaetano4945 Luke didn’t win against Sidious at all, he would’ve been zapped to a crisp if it weren’t for Anakin…
It does make sense
Ahsoka went through years of formal trainning and combat experience
She was a prodigy herself(but not on the level of the Skywalkers or Rey)
Luke on the other hand, was like a home-schooled prodigy, unmatched talent, but lacking in experience and orthodox education in the ways of Jedi
No it doesn’t make sense dude. In a real fight, Luke would straight up whoop her Togruta ass
Makes sense. And it lines up with Rex's words from the Clone Wars movie: "Experience outranks everything." She may not be the most powerful force user but she certainly has a very well refined lightsaber form.
@@firestriker3580 If you think about it.
Luke never had formal training.
He never had that many lightsaber duels(due to order 66)
He did beat Vader, but he was Luke's father
Now let's look at Ahsoka
She's been in jedi academy at very young age
Her "full time" master was Anakin Skywalker
She fought against duelists like Grevious, Ventress, Vader ,Maul and many others
Luke is most likely stronger than Ahsoka in force
But Ahsoka is stronger overall as a duelist
Makes sense. She trained under Anakin Skywalker
And Luke trained directly under Yoda and Obi Wan and had direct connection to their force ghosts and to Anakin's force ghost, so no, his answer doesn't really makes sense.
@@rpgadventurer32 Ahsoka was trained by Yoda and Obi wan in person. She grew up as a youngling in the temple. And she faced tons of dark siders in her time. At this point in the story, Filoni is right when he says that Ahsoka would have better form than Luke.
She does have experience then him.
He’s not wrong though. She is older and more experienced. She fought in TCW and was partially trained by his father.
But in Rebels, she's a failed Jedi and STILL Force pushed Vader. Yet the TCW fanboys deny that she's a Mary Sue, lol.
@@saberiandream316 You realize that she still got enough training to get started, and she's still been honing her skills in the years after TCW, right? She doesn't need to be part of the Jedi order to grow her own skills in the Force.
And good god, you're really harping the fact that she force pushed Vader, aren't you? Oh the humanity, she managed ONE force push on Vader despite the fact that he clearly had the overall upper hand in that duel.
@@saberiandream316 Lol she’s a Mary Sue for force pushing Vader. It’s funny how no one calls Luke a Gary Stu but like to say he’s the best at everything. Shows how dumb your argument is when she is older and more experienced than most Jedi
@@shawnjones7295 she wont have sex with you soyboy
Problem isn't her power level being 9000 or whatever.
Problem is that her character arc was supposed to either be a tragedy where she dies and scars vader forever, or that she would have to be the student that overcome the evil master. Instead, she didn't become either because her fandom were kids and killing her off is just too traumatizing, yet the continuity requirement with original trilogy doesn't allow her to be the savior of Anakin since Luke already did that. Then the worst part is that they just hand-wave all of this with some random "oh she's just absent for good reasons, but we haven't figured out a good reason... only lame reasons."
I think we should wait to figure out exactly why she was absent in the OT before we criticize that element of the story. If Clone Wars came out before the OT, perhaps an Ahsoka v Vader conflict would've been a great ending. But I still think that Ahsoka can get a great ending without that. Perhaps her story will end with bringing someone like Ezra back from the dark in a way that she couldn't for Anakin. Maybe it will end with reconciling her past with Anakin and getting over her trauma so she can be the Jedi she was always meant to be. There are plenty of interesting directions that Ahsoka can be taken in that don't require her death at the hands of Anakin/Vader.
Clickbait, Wow first time I don't agree with JarJarBinks video. The title is not want filoni meant.
What he is saying is true according to the story timeline. It is true Luke had no proper jedi training obiwan died too soon, so of course Ashoka would be more skilled at sword fighting and the force. She's had the luxury of being trained by multiple people in her lifetime since she was a child.
Luke was not that lucky, his master died, and he started at an older age compared to other jedi. but that doesn't diminish Luke's character, infact is a testament to how powerful Luke is, even without proper standard Jedi training Luke can be so powerful.
Just imagine if Luke had proper Jedi training at a young age.
He believes the only Star Wars is George Lucas Star Wars he believes anything from Disney sucks the only thing I don’t like is the sequel trilogy
@@AlexsFerrari get off reddit
@@AlexsFerrari Filoni also destroyed the EU long before Disney. He is no EU fan or ally. I've seen so many clueless idiots miss the mark - that any "love" he has it for is patronizing, in the same manner that Mr. Weasley "loved" Muggles over in the Harry Potter books.
I don't know why people want Luke to be overpowered. He was never supposed to be a Gary sue and Filoni knows that.
@@datguy3581 Love how you're claiming that Luke would be "overpowered" if he was more powerful than Ahsoka when in reality it's just a fact. Ahsoka died to Vader while Luke ultimately prevailed over him. That says Luke's the more capable one.
I mean... Literally nothing he said was wrong. All makes sense to me.
what he really says is that his dueling technique with the lightsaber is better formed, in the disney canon they obviously don't have much idea of Luke's training, in the expanded universe I know that he receives knowledge about how the lightsaber is handled by Yoda, holocrons or another type of reference material, because his skill with the saber on the era of the new Jedi order was exceptional and prodigious, being able to face many Yuuzhan Vong at the same time with incredible speed
This man is far less learned on lore than you want to admit. Changed Malachor V, Onderon, Dathomir, several other planets, ruined Thrawn...
@@saberiandream316 That's not canon anymore so there's no reason to know that stuff. It was never really canon. At least that's how Lucas saw it anyway and why he had Filoni break with the EU.
@@datguy3581 GL allows Eu to exists, even him got a lot of concepts from there. Only GL could make a new content to erase the EU. Not Disney.
@@robertocaetano4945 Well George Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney and gave the company to Kathleen Kennedy. So it's up to Disney to decide what's canon. George Lucas has no problem overriding the EU. The prequels did it. Clone Wars did it. His ST outlines did not follow the EU. Lucas didn't write in the EU.
Nothing in the video is inaccurate. "Stronger" is an inaccurate conclusion in the title. Still an interesting clip though.
Title is a little clickbait. I don't like Disney SW but Filoni's comments aren't unreasonable.
I believe the issue is, and I've never checked out his shows or Disney Star Wars, so I could be wrong, that she still carries a lightsaber and fights with it. An ex-Jedi would not have those powers and abilities. Look at the EU, which showed a Jedi Master who wasn't really the most trained of his ilk, taking on Vader right after Mustafar, and Vader eventually beat Master Shryne. He only got stronger from there. While in Rebels, Ahsoka Force pushed Vader. That, realistically, does NOT happen and should not.
Yeah. Filoni doesn't want Luke to be a Gary stue. He's showing how his lightsaber style gets better with time an practice. The problem is that people are making excuses for why Luke should be better when it doesn't really make sense. Ahsoka is a very experienced force user and dualist. Although she isn't an official Jedi, she still continues many of her Jedi practices.
I’d say Luke is stronger in the Force while Ahsoka is more skilled in Lightsabers.
I'd say Luke needs to sit down, humble himself, take out a pen and paper, and he might learn something
He should be stronger in both the force and with lightsabers because what Filoni forgets or doesn't say, is that Luke had direct access to the force ghosts of Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin. Logically, they would've trained him in their styles and knowledge in the post ROTJ period. In the real canon - approved by George - he also becomes the strongest Jedi in existence.
She is definitely more s killed, she's been trained by Plo Koon and Anakin in his prime, she's been in a war fighting countless enemies. Of course she is, there's no need for Filoni to clear that up. Luke's best trait was never his fighting skills. Luke's important because he was the only one who could turn Vader back; that's it. What he could've accomplished through the power of the force he inherited was a question that was left to our imagination. Filoni isn't denying that, in fact, Luke's portrayal in Mando is great because of that exactly. He isn't pit against any other character because that doesn't make sense for him, in story and in character. He's there to be compared only with the other versions of himself in the past, and there's been progress. The only thing I was concerned on seeing growing was his wisdom and his self- mastery, because we can only assume his teachers were force ghosts from the ending of Ep 6.
And this is not the Filoniverse, he didn't even started writing on the Clone Wars 2nd season, he was a director and an animator. This all came from George originally, he's the one who made Ahsoka fight in the Clone Wars at the age of 14.
Well put 👏🏼
Wow comment section has me sad, I've been against Disney star wars. But reading the garbage here is making Disney's defense of 'toxic' fans seem true.
Come on guys, we can better than this....
Yeah, but there are just as many if not more people in this comment section who disagree with the guy who uploaded this.
@@ericsantucci6934 yeah I was here too early. Now it seems more and more people are speaking up. That's great.
Maybe you all have forgotten Rebels. This validates what he says. If she can Force push Vader, then you KNOW the video title is the reality.
@@saberiandream316 Oh wow, she force pushed him! Oh my goodness!
/s
@@ericsantucci6934 An ex-Jedi. Force pushed a Sith Lord. _In his prime._
Is he wrong tho
Yes. Luke is much stronger than her. In fact, George confirmed that Luke became the most powerful jedi, but obviously Filoni is biased with his pet and thinks she’s superior
@@OkIPullUp2915 This times a million.
@@OkIPullUp2915 Except Dave never says Ahsoka is stronger. Stop taking the bait.
All he said is she has more training, and that's an indisputable fact. Luke was still able to accomplish more than her despite less training because he's stronger in the force. It's not complicated.
@@RandomGuy285 he still thinks that most council members are better than Luke. In fact, he probably does think that Ahsoka can beat Luke as he’s made Ahsoka beat Almost everyone she’s faced now, like Maul and Vader
@@OkIPullUp2915 Filoni is on record saying Ahoska did not and could not beat either Vader in Rebels or Maul in TCW. And Luke could beat Vader. It's not like Dave doesn't know that.
You guys just want to be angry.
George Lucas created Both chracters.. Filoni, unlike Kennedy is a Lucas loyalist. He's Not bashing Luke, he's referencing Ahsoka's age, experience, & direct on-the- job training from Luke's father throughout the Clone Wars.
He's not a loyalist, a traitor who goes along with KK. Don't be naive.
He is a loyalist. Had he not put the true Luke Skywalker into the Mandalorian, unbeknownst to Kennedy, the most recent impression of the character would be that fuckin mockery. Kennedy's bum ass disheveled hermit iteration..
@@7Alik You don't actually believe KK was't aware? Besides it was very bad.
@@JarJarAbrams Luke's appearance in Mandalorian was bad? We Agree to disagree.. As for Filoni/Favreau ,Study the art of war.
I actually see zero proof that George directly created her past what could have been a discarded idea for Revenge of the Sith, and what is, of course, spin by the revisionists at Lucasfilm, who don't have your best interests at heart. Look at how often George talked about Star Wars being about boyhood, a boy's story, about our relationship with our fathers, and what Filoni says, that he came in WANTING to make it for the young girls, which was the marketing around TCW... you don't see an issue here? If you're going to take issue with Rey, you need to take issue with Ahsoka as well!
She is? That’s very good news.
Ashoka is Dave's pet project, of course he would say that.
He doesn't respect George Lucas legacy. Star Wars is not his sandbox.
He's also very correct. Ahsoka objectively indisputably has a better lightsaber technique than Luke at this point in the timeline. She has fought more lightsaber wielders and Sith than him. She's had decades more life experience than Luke. She also trained in the Temple with some of the best jedi in the Order, something Luke didn't do. Luke didn't even train in lightsaber combat with a master. So anyone with a brain should be able to see that Ahsoka would have the more refined lightsaber technique.
@@datguy3581 She's a non canon character that only exists as a Mary Sue in his little fanfiction cartoon.
@@JarJarAbrams
A) Clone Wars is part of the canon
B) Clone Wars was created by Lucas so it would be canon even without Disney taking over
C) Ahsoka in no way is a mary sue. She has plenty of flaws and has a strong character arc. As for power levels, she's about what you'd expect someone who grew up in the Jedi temple to be like.
This dude literally added time travel to Star Wars to save his precious OC, lmfao
And it opened up a ton of interesting possibilities for where to take the Ahsoka character. I don't know what some peoples obsession with killing off characters is all about.
It's not time travel though
@@datguy3581 But lets kill Luke, though.
@@objektgerste6019 Luke's fate wasn't under Filoni's direct control. It seems pretty clear that Filoni is the one who gets to decide what happens to the Clone Wars and Rebels characters. I don't think Luke's death was the most amazing thing ever but it wasn't horrible by any means in my eyes. Part of it may have been to do with "passing the torch" in a way. Luke passed his torch to Rey. Ezra seems like he will be Ahsoka's successor in a way.
Glad there are some Ashoka critics out there.
But Filoni is right. Some who has decades of experience, trained with the best masters in the Jedi Order, and fought multiple Sith should have a more refined lightsaber technique than a boy who only recently became a Jedi a few years ago.
@@datguy3581
I could argue with you until time stops but at the end of the day, you aren't convincing me that Ashoka is no different from Rey. One character everyone got used to through multiple seasons of TV shows, the other character didn't have nearly enough time for everyone to get used to. That's the difference, and you aren't convincing me.
@@FFF_de.r With the limited knowledge that we have on Coleman Trebor, he may have had better technique than Luke. He may not. There are other factors to consider. Perhaps he had not seen combat much. Perhaps he just had bad luck. Anyone can get shot by a blaster regardless of skill.
@civilwarfare101 That time it took for people to get used to her took place over a 3 year war that Ahsoka played major parts in, and gained alot of experience and council from multiple Jedi masters.
Rey did an obstacle course a few times so I'd say there's a major difference
@@yasuke1709
That's the point, you got used Ashoka not because she was a well written character where if Rey got the TV show over the course of 3 years, you'd like her too.
I think both characters aren't good but I am not going to act like Ashoka is well written because she existed in a time before Kathleen Kennedy took over the series, I am not blinded by hate boner PR dogma.
Well that makes sense. Luke was never said to be the strongest jedi in existence, sure he helped fulfil the prophecy, but he's not flawless. Not to mention this is technically still very early in Luke's journey as a jedi, it just means he still has some character development and growth ahead of him (well if tlj didn't ruin that future for him that is.) Obviously Luke is going to surpass Ahsoka with time, and probably by far, a journey I would love to see. We should not forget he had technically very little training compared to jedis during the republic.
Technically he was canonically the strongest Jedi in existence. He becomes the strongest in the canon in the post ROTJ period, approved by George when the franchise was still under his creative control. He also had access to the force ghosts of Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin. Logically it wouldn't take a lot for him to surpass her in skills and he's certainly significantly more powerful than her with the force. Filoni is over exaggerating her abilities, and what's interesting is that her live action character's portrayal - in season 2 of the Mandalorian - was no where near as powerful or impressive as Luke's performance in that final ep of that season, where he simply went through an army of powerful droids like it was nothing. Ahsoka struggled against characters on the show that would be quickly dispatched by the Luke of the final ep of season 2 of the Mandalorian. She may have more experience but the gap in power between the two is significant.
Yeah. Even in TLJ, as controversial as it is, Luke's power is never questioned. No other Jedi is able to use the force power he used in the end. I'm all for making Luke have a more gradual learning curve instead of learning everything needed to become a Jedi within what is about 3 years.
@@rpgadventurer32 George also visited the set for Mandalorian season 2 to help Filoni and Rosario bring Ahsoka to life. So I doubt he has a problem with her being as powerful as she is.
But we know that Rey Palpawalker surpasses all cause she's a pricksney's princess. Right?😋
Ahsoka is 20 years older than luke, so obviously she has much more training, and he never said she was stronger, what a stupid video
She's also a FAILED Jedi. And she still Force pushed Vader, so to say she has more training is sugarcoating the truth - SHE IS STRONGER IN THE FILONIVERSE.
@@saberiandream316 She didn't fail. The Jedi Order betrayed her. She surpassed heights that most Jedi reach because she chose her own path. If she wanted, she could've returned to the Order but she saw the error in their ways and did not return.
And how is someone who regularly goes up against fore users at a young age not supposed to be powerful later in life? Why do the Skywalkers always have to be better than the new characters? Lucas didn't intend Anakin to be the most powerful force user.
If you got a problem with her power level, you should complain about it to Lucas. He's the guy who decided that she should be fighting General Grevous and Ventrass at age 14.
@@datguy3581 Lmao!! The Order "betrayed" her? How? By reasonably following the evidence. Ahsoka acted like a total idiot in that arc. She made herself look increasingly guilty by running from the people trying to help her, fraternizing with a wanted criminal, attacking clones, endangering civilians, and further refusing to cooperate after finally being brought back to the Temple. If not for Anakin, Ahsoka would've been a goner. The Order didn't fail her, she failed herself.
And no, Filoni was the one who decided his precious Mary Sue would be besting skilled Jedi killers at the age of 14. George was mostly just the bankroll.
@@saberiandream316 Failed? She was going to immediately get Knighted if she accepted the council's offer to return. She's a full blown Jedi Knight in all but name, not a failure.
That's hilarious. Luke is forever superior, as well as Rey. Ahsoka is only the best in Davey and Happy's fanfiction minds.
First of all, this title is a bit misleading. Filoni did not say Ahsoka is stronger. He said she has better lightsaber form. This is because she was trained at the temple by Yoda and Anakin while Luke is mostly self taught at this point (in his early 20s). Also it's not just Filoni's mind. George Lucas was on set for the filming of part of Mandalorian season 2. So he gave input to Dave and Jon about how they should handle some of the legacy characters being brought in.
No lies or bs detected anywhere in Filoni's speech.
It makes sense that Ahsoka would be more proficient (not "stronger") in lightsaber combat because she is older and has had more training within the Jedi Order when it was at it's peak.
No where does Filoni say that Ahsoka is stronger than Luke, it just that their skill sets are slightly different because of their backgrounds and training.
Video and title is complete clickbait, and you should ashamed of yourself for that.
What a weird thing to whine about
Just no. Didn't George Lucas say Luke was the strongest jedi?
Dave didn't really say that Ahsoka was stronger. He said she had better form which makes sense given that this is only a few years after ROTJ. Maybe Luke hasn't mastered all the lightsaber techniques. But I also wonder when George said Luke was the strongest Jedi. Because Dave did consult George Lucas during the filming of Mandalorian season 2 about how to best integrate Clone Wars characters that were created during George's time at Lucasfilm. Lucas actually visited the set during the filming of episode 5 to talk to Rosario Dawson.
If you were to put this into context, I think Filoni has a point. They're also two very different Jedi. She is very martial-arts focused, a war-time veteran duelist who specializes in acrobatics to try and disorient her opponents and get a sneaky hit in. Luke specializes in heavy defensive stances, much like Vader, as he closes in to his opponents to slice them down in one or two hits. If he can't get close or it wouldn't be advntageous to do so, he utilizes the Force in an offensive manner to defeat his opponents.
Ahsoka is very much a dexterity-based close-combat duelist. Luke is a defensive-duelist and utilizes force powers much more than she can.
If the two were to fight it out? Luke would win, hands down. While she is impressive with her lightsaber style, Luke would still have the flexibility to utilize his defensive stance to hold her off. Then he'd just throw her around with some force telekinesis.
Filoni isn't outright saying Ahsoka is better/stronger than Luke. She's different and can still hold her own for sure, but not against Luke.
Yeah. I feel like some people are taking what Filoni said out of context. He never mentioned how their force abilities compare.
Makes sense, Ahsoka was a Jedi and a General much before Luke born, that does not mean that Luke is weak.
Obviously she is stronger than Luke, she is older and had proper training. Experience trumps all. Filoni, at not point, says she is stronger than Luke but I wouldn't be surprised if she is considering shes about 20 years older and fought in many battles. This title sounds like you're trying to rile people up for no reason.
Oh and don't forget that Ahsoka was literally revived with the life force of the daughter.. The literal embodiment of the lightside
Experience doesn’t mean anything in Star Wars when you’re fighting someone more powerful. Qui-Gon was older than Maul and he still fought the two Jedi for a decent amount of time. Dooku was older than Anakin in ROTS and still lost.
Luke is most powerful canonically
@@ezrahokanson7170 Too bad that Ahsoka ain't far behind and is more experienced
@@GladDori of what we know she is more experienced but we don’t know canon of what Luke was up to since ROTJ. He took out all the dark troopers like it was nothing he never wavered once
Who beat the Empire again???... Hmmm
Darth Vader, whilst luke was being tortured by the emperor begging for his father to help him
@@RandomPersonProbably I love how you think that situation isn't credited to the person that caused it to happen.
@@PhantomDeth And I love the irony of you trying to play it off as if Luke beat the emperor by himself and completely excluding Vaders major role in the situation. Not to mention the fact that the point you’re failing to prove has literally nothing to do with the actual topic.
The whole point Feloni made was Ashoka has more training and experience than Luke. What does Luke turning his Father back to the light so he could kill the emperor have to do with that?
@@RandomPersonProbably Vader didn't do it the entire time.. Luke was the reason for it.. Luke was always the reason.. Luke beat his father and refused to end him out of love.. That is the reason the Emperors reign ended..
That you can't grasp this is hilarious.. Vader tried to beat the Emperor.. Failed.. Only with Luke did that change and that's because Luke changed him.
@@PhantomDeth Gotta love how you ignored a whole 3rd of my comment except the part where I say Luke didn’t Solo the emperor then say I do g grasp the situation. Yes Luke saving his father was the reason the emperor was killed. What I’m saying is Luke did not kill the emperor through his lightsaber/force abilities and he used his connection with his father to bring Vader back to the light to save the galaxy.
Now I want you to really focus on what I am saying here. What does Luke reasoning with his father have to do with Ashoka being older and having more formal training and experience with a lightsaber than Luke which is the entire topic of this video you are commenting on.
Maybe he taught himself... DAVE!!! just like Obi-Wan probably did😡 you ever thought of that as*****
Obi wan was taught by the Jedi Order. Luke did teach himself how to sword fight and that is why he is not yet at the level of Ahsoka, who had decades to hone her skills which she learned from Anakin, Plo Moon, Obi wan, and Yoda.
@@datguy3581 I don't care about ahsoka...I'm not talking about her, I can give two 💩's about her. What I'm saying is after Obi Wan lost Qui Gon he was older enough and trained enough to train himself, while he was teaching Anakin, just like Luke after return of the jedi...he didn't have that much experience like Obi-Wan, but he sure did teach himself something with Yoda....and dave needs to see that...and maybe Luke went somewhere, that we don't know about yet, that he got more training.
What's an ashoka?
A trash character
An overrated Mary Sue that idiotic TCW fans like to pretend is NOT a Mary Sue while they don't read the books and bash the sequels, lol.
@@rfdempire49 Agreed
@@saberiandream316 Preach! 👏👏👏
A female character who people don't like because they don't want a woman to be on the level of their precious male Jedi
She's in her 20s when he's born and has significantly more training. He only trained with Yoda for a few days? She had almost the entire Clone War of training from the Jedi Temple in it's prime before the Empire. Sure, Luke is the chosen one, but even Yoda can beat Darth Vader.
Yoda couldn't beat Dooku. Anakin beat Dooku.
@@JarJarAbrams True, but Obi-Wan beat Anakin. I just think it makes more sense that Ahsoka would be more powerful than Luke :)
@@jacksonheiniger80 No it makes no sense and she shouldn't even be alive past clone wars era.
@@JarJarAbrams Why not? There can be plenty of easy explanations for where she was in the OT era and ROTS doesn't contradict the idea that she's around.
Ahsoka was more a daughter to Anakin than Luke was a son.
Totally unrelated, just wanted to put that out there
True
Well duh, it's his fanfic and she's his oc he's literally in love with.
exactly - he writes this crap like a 5th grader. She should have been dead when Vader killed her
@@ia5662 facts.
Yeah, she is never going to die for that reason. God only knows what he's done to poor Rosario Dawson behind the scenes...
@@ia5662 I can't stand the people who praise Filoni's writing like it's some kind of masterpiece. That disgusting hack doesn't even understand basic writing rules like "Show vs Tell" or "Checkov's Gun." And he clearly has no concept of consistency either. Seriously, the issues with his writing are SO OBVIOUS. How the heck do people not see it unless they're being willfully ignorant??
I don't know if you actually watched the documentary or not but what he does is that he doesn't make Luke an overpowered Gary stue who has mastered lightsaber combat despite not having much formal teaching. Ahsoka is a better dualist because she has decades of experience and trained under some of the greatest Jedi of the clone wars. You'd know this if you weren't biased.
this is why I believe in physiognomy, just fucking look at that goblinoid.
See, shit like this is why it’s easy to demonise Star Wars fans as sexists when you overreact to every little thing as if your childhood is disappearing before your eyes when nowhere in this did he say that Ashoka is stronger than Luke
Jar Jar Abrams IS a proven sexist and incel, even if we share a general agreement that the ST is bad. He also said on Twitter that 1917 is a war film for soyboys.
He is a treasure trove of horrible takes, and makes the rest of our side of the fandom look bad.
@@ericsantucci6934 lol what!?! How is 1917 for soyboys? That movie was gritty as hell and realistic.
@@DayBowBow Because there are moments in the movie where the main character Schofield shows vulnerability, like with him crying at one point and looking after a woman and a orphaned baby.
No joke, that was legit his reasoning for it.
@@ericsantucci6934 wow. I kinda feel bad for jarjar now. Even Rambo in first blood showed alot of vulnerability, hell in Rambo 2 his last speech made every man tear drop. That's what makes him such a great character.
Jar jar must have a very warped perception of reality when it comes to his own self and men in general.
Does it even matter at this point?
Yeah, fans will keep defending Ahsoka and treat Filoni as some kind of god who respects the lore and George Lucas, an EU nerd and a savior, to which he is none of the above, to the point Ahsoka is going to be overexposed and everyone loses interest. Can't wait for that day.
@@saberiandream316 Same. Hopefully, that day comes sooner rather than later 🤞
Well considering that the title is a flat out lie, I wouldn't say so
I'm not agreed with that.Luke is the most powerful jedi ever
Luke isn't even in the top 50
He will be. Not yet though. He's still young and inexperienced. Bringing Vader to the light is a remarkable achievement but he still has more to learn at this point.
@@ScaryManiac LOL. It's a silly debate because these are fictional characters but George Lucas himself said that Luke was the most powerful Jedi ever. And Disney's canon, despite how controversial it is, still upholds that Luke is the most powerful Jedi.
@@thomas8431 It's worth noting that Filoni didn't say that Ahsoka was stronger than Luke. He said she had better form than Luke. There is more to being a Jedi than lightsaber form. And I think that's a good decision on Filoni's part. Dueling skills are developed by experience in Star Wars so it makes sense that Luke is not at his peak quite yet. Also it's worth noting that George Lucas did help Dave bring Ahsoka to live action so I doubt he really has a problem with the portrayal.
This is why Ahsoka should have been killed off before ROTJ. Her, Obi Wan and Anakin ought to have been reunited in death, but Filoni is too attached to her because she’s basically his OC.
I do agree with that. I have mixed feelings. While she should’ve died by now, my hope is that they can still do interesting things with her while she’s still alive. I want to see her and Luke actually interact and such, since she’s Luke’s only remaining living connection to Anakin.
What does Ahsoka existing threaten the entire show/universe?
@@stoichiometryc8462 No, but it does weaken the theme of Return of The Jedi, which is Luke being the first of the New Jedi Order that isn't burdened by the Jedi Code of the Prequels.
@@killgriffinnow but Ahsoka is NOT a jedi, she's said it multiple times. If anything she would encourage Luke to stray away from the old order.
@@stoichiometryc8462 She shouldn't be as powerful as she is, anyway, if she left the Jedi Order.
- "What can you say about Filoni?"
- "The boy is a tool and probably sleeps in an "L" position."
Well if you ask Lucas, he seems to like him. He worked with him for years on the Clone Wars and even came back to the set of the Mandalorian to help him with bringing Ahsoka to live aciton
Mandalorian happens almost in the same time that Dark Empire comics...in the comics Luke fought aganist Sidious in his prime and won. And Eu is Canon, not what Disney created...so Luke would wipe the floor with her. She training and left the order while she was a Padawan...so she not complete her training. Luke fought a war too, not only Ahsoka. Luke was much more talent, much more focus and learn whats is most important. He is like the Bruce Lee of the Jedi. He uses what he learn from Holocrons and Yoda to improve his style and create a new way of fighiting and his force power help him a lot. He is the chosen one son...simply that. Filoni dont know shit about SW.
Um... the EU isn't canon whether you want it to be or not. It doesn't matter what happened in the EU because it's a new canon. Luke isn't completely overpowered in the new canon. Luke was not trained much in lightsaber combat. Ahsoka had years to practice in the Order before getting experience in the field fighting Ventrass, Grevous, and Maul. She was trained by the literal chosen one. She has decades of experience. Ahsoka continued to be a Jedi after she left the Order. She just didn't have any ties to the Order so she wasn't officially a Jedi. Luke's war was fought years after the Clone Wars. Don't forget Ahsoka was involved in the fight against the Empire too. She went toe to toe with Darth Vader before entering the world between worlds. She has the experience, knowledge, and skill to be a Jedi master if she wanted to be.
Do you really think learning from holocrons is better then learning from Anakin Skywalker, Obi wan Kenobi, and Plo Koon? Yoda trained Ahsoka longer than he trained Luke. Ahsoka has her own distinct style too. Luke is in his 20s. He has a long time to grow and become a Jedi master. He shouldn't be some Gary Stue like character. It doesn't matter who is stronger. Arguably Luke is stronger in his prime (which he has not yet reached). Being the son of the chosen one doesn't make someone overpowered. He isn't better and doesn't need to be better.
This man really say Dave don’t know anything about Star Wars?😂 He is literally George Lucas apprentice bro. He knows more than anyone after George. George Lucas the creator of Star Wars wouldn’t side with you on this one buddy
I mean... yeah. She has had more training than him. Wouldn't call her _stronger_ per se, but she's definitely more skilled than him. She's like, what, 3 decades older than Luke?
You Filoni fans need to do more research. EU fans have hundreds of hours put into attack files on him that shows he's every bit the problem as anyone else working there, we just got hit the hardest first, but make no mistake, the same hubris and smug indifference is coming to all the rest of fandom - you got a firsthand taste in 2017, and Filoni has nothing but respect for Kennedy and Johnson, he's said this, he considers Johnson a mentor. Stop the mental gymnastics, please!
Some people seem to just really hate anything non EU. It seems like they want Luke to be some Gary stu character but he never was. It wouldn't make sense that he'd mastered lightsaber combat in such a short time without a professional teacher.
This is an issue this sucker has created. Ahsoka Tano should have never met Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker. She was not only trained by Jedis but she was trained by Anakin Skywalker and she was closely watched by Obi Wan Kenobi too and many times he gave her advices, she was able to observe him closely and learn. But the biggest advantage over Luke Skywalker is that Ahsoka have combat experience... plenty of it. She would absolutely would be more than capable of training Grogu. But sadly these are issues created by Dave Filoni. Decent Star Wars fans should know Feloni and Disney does not care for Lore or story.
To be fair, there is a reason that Ahsoka doesn't train Grogu. She still feels guilty about Anankin and Ezra presumably. As for why she isn't in the OT, that is something we will learn when her show comes out.
Luke had plenty of combat experience in the years of fighting the Empire so that is not accurate, he's also near the peak of his power and was taught directly by Obi Wan and Yoda and continued to learn from them as force ghosts and from his own studies in the years after ROTJ. The character is not part of the George Lucas canon, she doesn't fit with the original timeline, that is the biggest problem. She may have more overall experience but he's significantly more powerful than her.
@@rpgadventurer32 George Lucas created Ahsoka. He was on set during the filming of the Mandalorian to oversee Ahsoka's transition into live action. Whether you like her or not, she is clearly part of George's vision for Star Wars.
The real joke here is the fact that people actually pay to see his crappy ideas ON their TV
I never have. 😏😏😏
@@saberiandream316 POV : YOU NEVER HAVE
ua-cam.com/video/yTVUtWZf3v8/v-deo.html
@@alneri8327 No, really. I think he's overrated, as is TCW, Rebels, and Mandalorian in Name Only.
How is Luke not being overpowered a crappy idea?
Filone spoke the truth.
However, that Luke's scene is ridiculous. He's extremely overpowered and the choreography just makes the robots look even dumber. Precisely the choreography and direction of the episode already had made the characters look super dumb in comparison to the robots.
He's not over powered at all, he's supposed to be the most powerful Jedi in George Lucas's canon. It's nothing compared to how strong he got in the EU, in fact he's underpowered in Disney's Star Wars.
Ahsoka is a filoni fanfic insert and doesn't work within the context of the movies.
How? Her story is powerful and enhances Anakins. The world between worlds opens up a ton of possibility for future storytelling. Ahsoka being more skilled with a lightsaber at this point makes sense since she's older and has more training.
good thing this isn't a movie bud
The like and dislike ratio shows that TCW fanboys are getting butthurt rn
Also it's kinda stupid. Anyone who isn't clouded by OT fanboy rage should be able to recognize that Ahsoka is far more experienced than Luke and should have a more refined saber technique.
@@FFF_de.r At this point in the story, Ahsoka may very well have surpassed Vader. She's lived about the same length as Vader as of Mandalorian. She's also had experiences we don't know about with the force since the end of Rebels. Also having a more refined lightsaber technique does not equate to defeating Sith Lords.
Qui Gon Jin was most likely more skilled than Obi wan in TFM. Same goes for Ahsoka and Luke. Luke defeated Vader but that doesn't mean that he is stronger than Ahsoka. A lot of lightsaber fights don't come down to just who is the strongest. Otherwise Vader would probably have beaten Obi wan on Mustafar.
@@datguy3581 Luke is far stronger than Ahsoka. It's not even remotely close. He's Anakin's genetic equal, though with far better temperament and balance. Lucas said he was the most powerful Jedi ever with twice the power of peak Palpatine/ Yoda. Disney actually ups this in canon by saying the Skywalkers have "virtually unlimited power and ability to use the force." Luke with 7 years of training is still vastly more powerful than Ahsoka with 20 years. "Saber refinement" aside, it's a silly question, all things being equal Luke is far more powerful than Ahsoka, and that's axiomatic.
@@datguy3581 Im sorry but your favourite character is fan fiction bro
@@thomas8431 In the new canon, force abilities are determined by more then just genetics. While some people have more natural talent, anyone can use the force under the proper conditions with the proper time and effort. The force isn’t something that just a few special people can use because of their superior bloodlines. Now I still argue that there’s a good chance that Ahsoka is better than Luke at this point. But we don’t know for sure.
That being said, it’s completely reasonable for Ahsoka to have better lightsaber technique at this point. Luke is self taught while Ahsoka was mentored by the best in the order and fought multiple duals against powerful opponents.
The Awnser is Luke is stronger
Filoni didn't actually say Ahsoka is stronger. He said at this point (when Ahsoka was in her 40s and Luke was in his 20s), Ahsoka had better lightsaber form because of her formal training in the Order with Yoda and Anakin. But there's more to being a Jedi than just lightsaber form. There's connection to the force. There's finding balance. There's overcoming trauma, etc. It's fair to criticize Rian Johnson all you want but in The Last Jedi, Luke was using force powers that no other Jedi has been shown to use ever.
Makes sense to me. Luke is not even at his most powerful state at this point in time. Sure, Luke would become the most powerful jedi, but that would probably take a few more years, maybe even a decade.
Wasn’t Luke supposed to be an underdog? Why does this bother you?
In the films, but after ROTJ he becomes - canonically - the strongest Jedi.
@@rpgadventurer32 There's more to becoming a Jedi than lightsaber form. Ahsoka may be better when it comes to dualling but that doesn't mean she is the strongest Jedi. Luke may actually have a stronger connection to the force and has already found balance and delt with his traumas while Ahsoka hasn't.
I love how detailed Filoni gets about the lore. That said, I don't like this video's title -- a comparison is not a contest.
He's a fake lore master. Just very good at skimming Wookieepedia, and he loves changing it in minor ways to get nitpicking fans furious. It's the same old gaslighting from Lucasfilm. He has malicious motives the same as all others working there. Remember, this is the SAME MAN who gender-swapped a male character to female. He is either far more ignorant on lore than he pretends or changes it. There is no in between on this.
The title is so misleading. It's clearly designed to cause an argument.
You know, it does actually make sense she has more skill when it comes to fighting because she was trained by Anakin and has lived longer than Luke. Think of how she survived order 66 and the empire.
Even so, Luke is more powerful in the force. Ahsoka is not all powerful, just had more years than Luke of training with a lightsaber:
Luke in the EU was the greatest swordfighter, only Anakin son of Leia had same talent
Precisely, Luke was the son of one the most powerful Force-users of his day.
Yep, after decades of experience learning while also teaching multiple Jedi trainees
Filoni has insisted for YEARS that was never canon, so don't buy into this claim that he somehow has such "deep love" for Legends, _that_ is just Filoni groupies trying to make sure their savior doesn't have even ONE single negative mark on his record, so he looks flawless, when no human being can be utterly pure saintly perfect perfection. And if it was never canon, they'd have never needed to rebrand it "Legends" anyway. He's like all the others, he likes taking from the EU to act like he did it first. He even says in one of the new canon books they'd have a "united canon" for "the first time" in Star Wars history! Except the EU has done that the whole time. The man is trash.
Cause of course someone who has no Jedi master teach him sword fighting would be better than the person who got training directly from Anakin Skywalker himself
@@themichaelhartwell You do know that Ahsoka was trained personally by that very same powerful force user, right?
Preach!
Peach lies? Filoni never said she was stronger.
Cope
Ahsoka is one of the most overrated characters to be in Star Wars. She isn’t horrible, but she most defiantly overstayed her welcome. She should have died at the end of the Clone Wars show. Losing his apprentice would have been another reason Anakin got closer to the dark side.
But that makes sense Jared. And Filoni doesn't have any lol
She think his death versus vader would be more appropriate, imagine the emotional shock that would have been felt.
For me it was the best way for its exit.
It would have made sense and no need to invent a mystical place that goes back in time -_-'
Yep
I think she should have died at Malachor. George wanted her to die but Filoni kept her alive anyways.
@@ironinquisitor3656 And as he hinted, she's alive past Rise of Skywalker, as well.
Ahsoka is just a lame version of Starkiller without any of his weaknesses.
Ahsoka also for some reason has full immunity against even getting seduced by dark side.
Ikr?? It's so annoying. Judging by her behavior, she should've fallen to the dark side long before Anakin did. She literally comes across as a sociopath. And it's even more disturbing when you think about the fact that her character was created to appeal to kids.
Not every Jedi character has to fall to the dark side. She has a ton of strengths and weaknesses and those traits differentiate her from the characters that came before her.
So Ahsoka is the one without weaknesses and has crazy plot armor. But Starkiller isn’t when he dead ass takes down a star destroyer and the entire imperial army by himself right?😂 makes sense
@@imyouralibi6208 How does she come across as a sociopath? Also she doesn't have to be tempted by the dark side to be a good character. Ahsoka comes across as an overconfident teenager at first. She's young and ambitious. But she is humbled through loss in the war and comes out of it was a greater maturity but also greater trauma.
@@shawnjones7295 Ahsoka has weaknesses. She loses a lot of fights and she even fails to prepare Sabine for being tempted by the dark side.
Filoni has always been narcissistic when it comes to his pet character, to the point it feels that she was more his creation's than George Lucas's (and there is no direct evidence to refute that theory, anyway), so this is not shocking.
But the lengths the Filoni groupies will go to in order to defend this is beyond belief. Put this in the mouth of JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson, how would you react? Yeah. Especially since he destroyed the lore LONG before Disney.
Hey! Haven't heard from you in a while. Wondering if you're still interested in joining my SW group?
Dude, what Filoni says makes perfect sense. The character with more training and experience is better at lightsaber combat. Your bias is showing.
Lol goes to show how some people can’t stand their favorite character not being better than everyone else at everything
@@shawnjones7295 People seem to forget that George and Dave worked together to create Ahsoka. George was the executive producer for Clone Wars and had the final say on everything. He even went to visit the set of the Mandalorian to help Dave bring Ahsoka to live action.
If you say the true about Ahsoka, the crazy fanboys who was brainwashed by Disney going to dislike It.
Luckily it's not true. The title is misleading you. Filoni never said Ahsoka was stronger.
yay diminish Lukes character more why don't you I thought jj and rian already did that. yeah it makes sense but tbh I miss the days when the only jedi and sith left was luke, yoda, obi, vader and palpatine. I didn't think about "oh I wonder if there's more" cause I didn't care Luke's story was the only one that mattered and should be the only one that matters. give us legends not this confusing mess filoni and favreau are making thats full of plot holes that directly contradicts Lucas's orginal canon. ashoka is just filonis pet and he rose her way above her station she should have died fighting Maul atleast then the new timelines wont be so confusing.
How does Luke still having more to learn and not being the greatest Jedi ever while in his 20's diminish his character or his achievements? Why should Luke be the only Jedi left? Why should he be the only one that matters? In my eyes, more characters and stories are a good thing. Ahsoka could've died fighting Maul. But Luke also could've been killed by the Emperor after turning Vader to the light. Both confrontations were ending chapters of their lives and could've been stopping points. Legends is still there if you want to read it. No one has taken it away. But don't pretend that Legends didn't have its fair share of continuity problems and contradictions to Lucas' work. Lucas was the one who created Ahsoka. He's also the one who hired Filoni. He also brought Maul back to life. Clone Wars is Lucas' canon.
A lot of people don't get it yet, but Filoni is gonna start to annoy people in the future. The guy has a very narrow view of what Star Wars is supposed to be, guy thinks you can't make anything Star Wars be dark because it needs to be for kids. For 23 years the EU proved that wasn't true. I'm tired of this guy already.
He started annoying people from day one.
"And now you want to take that away from them and make it dark and sinister and evil?" I agree the normies don't like that, or do they? Audiences liked Aliens and Predator. But whatever. The IDEA of the casual customer base is what Disney chases, and that... is why they fail. As a Jedi Master we know might say.
Me too!
Long live to EU
I don't think Filoni even understands what "kid's content" is. Just look at TCW. It's very obviously directed at kids yet it's chock full of adult topics which are COMPLETELY inappropriate for kids.
@@imyouralibi6208 Yeah, which, by the way, some of the best "kid's shows" dealt with pretty heavy stuff at times. Look at Teen Titans (the original show), Avatar, Korra and likely Steven Universe, though I haven't watched much of it myself. Point is, some of the best cartoons I remember as a kid were ones that said stuff I didn't entirely understand yet and had to figure out. I enjoyed that a lot of Expanded Universe content never treated its audience like morons, regardless of the age the piece of content was for.
Yes, Ahsoka was overpowered by Filoni...its Sad...after George Lucas Star Wars dies.
Luke is the chosen one son, the most powerful jedi acording GL.
But Ahsoka...is older some Disney shills may say...but If this logic was true...Yoda cannot be defeated because he is older and more experienced than anyone...how Palpatine won? Of course quantity of training isnt equal to hard training and quality.
But Luke hasn't mastered light saber combat at this point. And why should he have? He had no Jedi master to teach him advanced lightsaber combat. Ahsoka learned a lot of her lightsaber technique directly from Anakin Skywalker himself. And she spent a lot more time with Yoda and Obi wan than Luke did.
You sound like one of those people who defend Rey being the most powerful Jedi. You ignore all the time, effort, and experience that Ahsoka put in. How many real lightsaber fights did Luke get into? 2. How many did Ahsoka get into? Quite a bit more than that in just the Clone Wars alone.
Nope, never. Luke Skywalker is the end all be all, and if you say otherwise, you are a doo doo head *crosses arms and pouts*
Facts. Ahsoka is a bs character who ruined Luke’s legacy
@@rfdempire49 She broke the lore, before Disney. Yet the children and older fans who fell into TCW won't ever admit that show is extremely overrated, the same as Filoni. Look at what he's like, look what Rebels was without George there to hold his hand, yet he knows if he just gives them a half-truth, they'll make excuses for him. Like somehow trying to mentally erase him out of Star Wars Resistance, even though he oversaw the whole damned thing. It's dark times for Star Wars because he first pulled the wool over the eyes of fandom in 2008, and it's never stopped since then...
How is a character who never learned official light saber combat supposed to be better than someone who was trained by Anakin Skywalker himself and has had a ton of experience with war. Ahsoka is decades older than Luke. Wouldn't Luke being super OP at this stage just make him a Gary stue? I don't want that.
@@rfdempire49 You misspelled "Rey".
What's this BS???
Filoni said that during the Mandalorian, Ahsoka is more experienced than Luke which is an indisputable fact given that she is about 20 years older than him.
Cope harder
To those who have an issue with him saying “Ashoka is stronger than Luke”
He isn’t wrong. Obviously not stronger than him in the force, but combat wise she is.
She is older, has far more experience, and is his superior in every way.
He is wrong, Luke by that point is near his peak of his power, canonically he is the strongest Jedi, he should be taught by the force ghosts of Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan. They are the ones who are his teachers past ROTJ, so why wouldn't he know who was teaching him sword fighting? He's just putting his own created character above the one created by George. There's no reason she should be considered his senior even with her age and experience.
@@rpgadventurer32 Luke may be powerful but he doesn't have the experience of Ahsoka. Ahsoka was taught by a living breathing Yoda, Anakin, and Obi wan. And she fought Ventrass, Grievous, Maul, Vader, and various Inquisitors to varying degrees of success. According to Filoni, Luke has surpassed the point he was at in ROTJ but still has more to learn. Even experienced people having more to learn is a large theme in both Lucas and Filoni's work. To quote Anakin in the Ahsoka series, you are never too old to learn.
Also George Lucas was literally on set during the filming of Mandalorian season 2 giving feedback about the handling of Ahsoka - a character he created with Filoni - so I think he's fine with it.
So David said something more troubling he don't know who was teaching Luke how to fight with a lightsaber . Which means they don't have a decent story group and free styling this shit lol. KK really needs to go Disney going to destroy star wars.
Unlike in the Holy and Sacred EU where he was taught Lightsaber skills by…
@@Longshanks1690 You're both wrong because none of this matters anymore.
@@Longshanks1690 Filoni knows jack shit about the EU, but he is good at skimming online. He sure does put in the most effort of anyone there, but quits halfway to go play with his toys.
@@saberiandream316 …The fuck does that have to do with what I said? 🤣🤣🤣
@@Longshanks1690 he learn from holocrons, old Republic writings, exchange of traditions with Dathomir witches, Jensarai order and so on...
So Ahsoka didn't know about Luke or that Vader turned away from the Darkside?
That was odd.
This show is placed after the return of the jedi and it seemed as it's been years since the jedi seem like they've been away a long long time now when in reality it's been like 20 years.
Imagine that, in 20 years or so a war that torn the galaxy apart was reduced to myths and legends but in this planet we live in we still remember WW2 and shame people about things that happened BEFORE their lifetime.
Also rememver that Ahsoka left the jedi order and didn't finish her training so swordsmanship wise she should have more experience goven how she did battle in the clone wars BUT Luke was able to defeat Vader, no small feat there.
I assume that Ahsoka has heard about Luke but maybe she just can't deal with anything related to Anakin or his legacy. I imagine she might also know that he's gone. Her relationship with Anakin was so strong that potentially she may have tried to suppress it or something. Who knows.
She was probably the greatest padawan during the clone wars. She would have been made a knight if she rejoined the order. And people always ignore that Vader held back in his fights with Luke
@@shawnjones7295 color me blind but in the return of the jedi Luke pummels Vader into submission. You mean to say that Vader held back in there and let Luke cut his hand?
@@SimoPortti Vader was literally ordered by the emperor to help turn Luke to the darkside. He was holding back greatly but he was caught off guard by how Luke used the darkside against him. If Vader really wanted Luke dead he would be. Luke didn’t even know how to block with lightning at that point
@@shawnjones7295 looks like there's different interpretitions on how the duel went on the return of the jedi.
Luke first was Starkiller, luke is the beginning of star wars, Filoni is treason then..
Screw Filoni - Ahsoka being Luke's senior, forgot that. She should have been dead long before Luke was even around, it's thanks to the king shoehorner himself that she's even in the Mandalorian, quite unbelievably. The same guy who sings Ahsoka's praises and dominance is the same guy who apparently forgets she was NEVER in the Original Trilogy, never helped the Rebels in their most important battles against the Empire and was never around when the only lightsaber wielders were Vader, Obi-Wan, Yoda, The Emperor and Luke - (technically Leia later). There is no way in hell that Ahsoka is better or more superior to Luke in any way - what a joke. All he wants to do is petulantly put HIS stamp on Star Wars and trod straight over the pre-established boundaries and canon of the OT.
Gonna cry 😢
@@bosuper9403 Ahsoka fanboy spotted
@@rfdempire49 not necessarily I’m just finding it hilarious of y’all getting so triggered beyond belief over a fictional character’s fictional power level being less of another. Like that’s so sad and embarrassing 😂
@@bosuper9403 "It's fiction, bruh!" ignores that nitpicking is a guard of quality control. When you don't have that, quality suffers. And Filoni either is far more ignorant on lore than he likes to preen about, or he changes it in small ways to trigger nitpicking fans. It's just a minor, softer, more subtle variation of the constant gaslighting at Lucasfilm. This is not him having a gun to his head, either. He's just a smug little man who thinks he's more important than he really is. I mean, without George there to hold his hand, his shows don't get that much ratings. Rebels consistently got around under half a million views, and that's BEFORE moving it to Disney XD. That's fine for the few people who actually like his shit, but it shows his reach is VERY narrow, and always has been. This man is no savior of Star Wars. At all.
So true
All the disney star war fans are pissed you dare call out their beloved mary lekku
Not really. There are valid reasons to criticize Ahsoka, but this criticism ain’t valid. That’s what people are calling him out for here.
Do you know what a Mary Sue is? A Mary Sue is a character with minimal flaws so you are objectively incorrect. You can't just call every female character you don't like a Mary Sue. Otherwise it doesn't have any meaning at all and the feminist types who say its sexist are correct.
@@datguy3581Have you ever heard of the Mary Sue subcategories such as the Black Hole Sue, Jerk Sue, and Neutrality Sue? Because Ahsoka perfectly fits into those three categories. Plus, her "flaws" are all surface level and have no meaningful consequences for her character since the writers incessantly sweep her mistakes under the rug and try to paint her as a saint.
@@imyouralibi6208 Her flaws are just as real and prevalent as any other Star Wars character. Most of the characters get painted in a positive light by the writers. I don’t know what your talking about. Ahsoka is constantly failing and dealing with consequences of those failures. But she learns from her mistakes to become a better Jedi. She’s a lot more complex than many classic OT characters.
The Mandalorian is nostalgia-baiting garbage, none of the new characters have any personality traits, they are simply devices for the contrived plot to move along.
I'd rather watch the older Stargate shows than check out any of the new movies and TV shows. I'd be more interested in new Legends books and comics, but Lucasfilm is too vain and petty to license any more of those.
Not true at all. The characters definitely have a character. It isn't the deepest or most complex Star Wars show by any means but characters like Mando, Ahsoka, Bo, and Boba have character and have stuff going on. And Moff Gideon has a pretty strong personality. Also Grogu has a good amount of character considering that he's a puppet who doesn't talk.
I never liked anything filoni created, star wars was becoming crap way before disney bought them
So true, and he has singled out the EU for sneering contempt and dismissive unconcern before Disney came around.
Nah. Filoni created some great characters. And this clip just shows how much care he puts into things. He made sure Luke's fighting style was well though out and realistic to what he'd be like a few years after ROTJ.
Ashoka isn't even g-canon so it doesn't matter. She's just some trashy cartoon character.
Actually Clone Wars is canon and it looks like Ahsoka will have a big part to play in the future of live action Star Wars unlike Luke who is now just part of the past
@@datguy3581 Disney cannon which is just expensive fan fic
@@JDoe-gf5oz Not really
@@datguy3581 Disney Wars is not original Star Wars. That's just a fact.
@@JDoe-gf5oz Clone Wars was created by GL so Ahsoka was always canon long before Disney took over.
The mandalorian Is a forgettable mediocre show. If it didn't have the star wars paint job it'd already be forgotten. It's not special and it won't "save star wars"
Well if you say it, then it must be true.
I can guarantee you Book of Boba Fett will have far smaller ratings than they had previously, for three reasons. 1) Grogu is gone, 2) The Jake cameo is over, and 3) The controversy around the Gina Carano firing, which had even certain mainstream outlets like Forbes getting in on the act, or late-night talk show hosts such as Bill Maher. If they're talking about it, that's bad for Disney Star Wars.
It isn't the deepest show ever but it doesn't need to be. It is fun, has some cool characters, and has some of that Star Wars spirit and magic.
It's a play-it-safe show, can't do anything risky after The Last Jedi.
@@virgogaming6488 I feel like clone wars proved you can go risky on tv though. Stuff like dedicating 5 episodes of clone wars to the Whills of the force could be considered risky but it paid off. I feel like the Ahsoka series may be the one that pushes the boundaries but we don't know for sure yet.
dave beloni is a fake star wars fan.
Dave Felony!
Agreed, him and all his fans
Star Wars is dead
Facts
While you might be right, I get the distinct impression you didn’t actually watch the clip. You just fell for Jar Jar’s misleading video title.
@@ericsantucci6934 I watched it moron.
If you watched it, then what in this video is enough to lead you to the conclusion that SW is dead? Please tell me.
@@ericsantucci6934 Star Wars has been dead since the force awakens. Disney does not have what it takes to make good Star Wars. Ahsoka should have died during or shortly after Order 66.
Ahsoka is the biggest Mary-Sue in the franchise to me. She should have died in her duel with Vader, the fact she lived ruins Luke's journey in the OT.
*"Luke, when gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be... except Ahsoka for, alive and well she is, help you she could, but... 'busy' she is."* - Yoda
Filoni won't let his baby die.
In what universe is Ashoka a Mary Sue? 😂
But she isn't, actually is one of the most developed characters with Luke, Anakin and Obi Wan.
THANK YOU! Someone finally understands, unlike the droves of Millennial Ahsoka fanboys and apologists. I swear it's because they find a cartoon attractive, her character SUCKS and so does Filoni and his hack writing. Favreau is legit the only thing keeping the Mandalorian good and afloat with fans.
Lol you're a complete idiot, you have no idea what a mary sue is. Ashoka is one of the most developed star wars characters
We saw her literally grow up in her entire arc. She started out as a inexperienced child that went through 2 wars and genocide.
anyone else notice ahsoka a character he created and constantly fangirls over showed up in the clone wars at the age of like 12 half naked wearing nothing but a small tube top and skin tight leggings but then she got more and more clothes as she got older? its only mildly suspicious lol hilarious if done by accident which is the likely case but then again.... Hollywood
George decided on the half naked look lmao. Filoni had her covered up initially.
I've wondered about that too 🤔
Yeah, I remember reading that Filoni pushed to give her a new design for season 3 which is much better if you ask me