Just my two cents: I don’t think banning Ghold or Gliscor will solve the hazard issue. I think the main problem is the lack of viable removers since GF made the totally wonderful decision of cutting down the list of who can use defog. Heck, DLC1 gave us something that PUNISHES defog, that being Empoleon with Competitive. Either way, I think this’ll ultimately have to be solved once DLC2 drops, assuming Defog returns as a TM and who GF decides can still have it. This is a complex issue that’s not going to have an easy solution.
Agree, people always blames Gholdengo but even with it gone the only usable defogger is Corviknight which struggles against a lot of the meta and not just Gholdengo so it is hard to fit on team, ghost types and tera ghost still block rapid spin so it would be almost the same without Gholdengo
Gholdengo is indeed the problem... it makes great tusk spinning 2nd guess itself and has to either 50/50 to try to remove hazards or try to hit ghold on the switch... and that is a gamble even then cuz balloon ghold can just run over you. Teams can also stack 2 ghosts to make sure that great tusk is always playing a mind game and god forbid smth like tera ghost garg shows up and sticks salt up ur bum I think removing ghold is the first step to a healthier meta.. this is a very frustrating meta to be in and I would rather not have any part of it... we have to hope something happens
I think one thing that would help greatly is to bring back pursuit. Making Ghold scared of being trapped can really hamper its hazard antics. Heck, if the scisor line gets it back we got a defogger that ghold wouldn't switch in against.
Removing pursuit was impressive because it managed to be the single worst decision of the controversial Dexit. Like my last tourney was a local level Gen 5 thing and I don’t even OWN scarlet and Violet…And I’m still miffed about it.
@@HiddenWenno If pursuit comes back it means that Kingambit will get it too and other physical fast mons will get it as well.Tyranitar will still be uu.People are not going to use Tyranitar over these mons. Tyranitar needs some serious buff to come back to Ou actually.
No, that would be the biggest buff for kingambit and absolutely push kingambit over the edge (if it isn’t already). Dark types are already way too strong within the meta
I said it from the very beginning, Goldie is the most brain dead designed pokemon. I understand wanting to shake up the hazards meta game. Defog had basically solved hazards for a long time. I think just taking away defogg from a bunch of mons would have been enough but they they make Goldie who blanks all hazards removal. A little overboard imo but it could have been ok. Where they fucked up was making Goldie *good*. Massive Sp Atk, good speed, good defenses. It's niche was already borderline broken but they you put a gold statline behind it too? That's insane.
Funny thing tidy up is probably the best hazard removal in the game because moushold the premiere user of it can pretty easily switch into gholdango and either outspeed it or just ignore the shadow balls. Also, since it’s fall into the lower tiers people have stopped bringing counters to it meaning you can run through teams with technician bite and population bomb.
This is kinda why I enjoy Doubles/VGC more since they ain't got time for that, and will be encountering the Incin go brrr issue instead that the uninitiated will despise since Incin also marks the proximity that Restricteds get to join the party, though I have no idea whether Mythicals can get in so Arceus can finally be legal in VGC after 15+ years.
If Goldengo wasnt steel ghost type specifically the ability wouldnt be as bad on hazards as it has been. They added a new move to he a hazard removal tool om glimorra, but that's not useful when Goldengo is around immune to it, rapid spin, and defog.
I've been saying this since day one, Gholdengo has been the most format warping Pokemon ever introduced since idk maybe the gen 5 weather wars. There's like what, 2 hazard remover mons which can threaten it? It's only gotten worse since gliscor dropped since gliscor kinda counters those. If ferrothorn also comes back then just pray. I think people are going to look back on this gen 10 years from now and wonder why such an ability wasn't banned.
It would be ok if there where other hazard removers in ou. The most prevalent, tusk and corvinight r not great matchups into gholdengo. Airballoon makes gholdengo a great pivot into tusk, especially since a lot of people r using ice spinner instead of knock of now, and corv can’t touch gholdengo at all.
@@overlord3481 to you guys saying talonflame, hawlucha, etc, if they were consistent enough gholdengo checks don't you think they'd at least see some play in OU by now? the problem is that they're just not consistent enough to be good gholdengo counterplay.
I love how your script flow so easy 🤧🌦️ also, the thumbnail that you bring??? it's so tempting :') 💫 Ah, gen 9 and their hazard alike to gen 3 but ^5 or something
Forgot to mention that Cinderace swapping hazards is useless against teams that rely on Gliscor and Clefable for setting hazards, as they are immune to them and accept the trade
How many Pokemon would be dropped to UU if Ghold gets the axe? Off the top of my head, Ribombee would absolutely get dropped, Glimmora would most likely follow, and H-Sam would probably be gone too.
Samurott wouldn't. Setting spikes with Samurott isn't a big ask, and just because you CAN clear hazards doesn't mean there's still no cost to doing it. It would drop in usage, but probably wouldn't drop altogether. Look at Kleavor, Kleavor is hanging tough in a tier without Gholdengo, and Samurott is way better than that thing.
A proposal if you may: This is specifically to get around the pesky Gholdengo; what if we make a bulky remover that has Magnet Pull? Make it Steel and Flying type with good special bulk, give it some good Dark coverage like Sucker Punch or Knock Off, give it Defog. HP: 85 Atk: 100 Def: 75 SpAtk: 69 SpDef: 120 Spd: 91 Total: 540 Not perfect for sure, but it avoids most of the relevant hazards and takes little Stealth Rock damage. Plus kills the Ponyboy Pokemon easily
Pokemon's had a hazard problem since like Gen 3/4. Spikes, Rocks and such have been prominent since then and things like Defog had to get buffed just to try to weaken hazards plus additions like Heavy-Duty Boots
the difference was that on past gens there were more counterplay. Before defog, for example, you still had the option to trap enemy ghost with pursuit, even on gen 3 (where pursuit was special, and for that more difficult to fit on teams) at least the most common ghost (gengar) was fragile (its true that he has bulky sets, but even them arent that "bulky") , and the better rapid spinner countered gengar (claydol) (and that without mention superman teams). Yeah now you have heavy duty boots... but at least on my opinion, thats less interesting
One othere thing that is very minor but still valid - Gholdengo is immune to trapping due to the ghost type, so whereas magnet pull enables a certain strategy around kinggambit, no such niche exists with gholdengo
The main issue i have with ribombee is that FAKE OUT DOESN'T WORK ON IT. The one thing that would work against it is sneasler, but the main issue is that bee outspeeds it at full speed, which is very common, but the fact that it can't flinch means it blatantly screws you over unless you use scarf while not being a big enough reason to commit to lacking what little utility it has in it's movesets already, not to mention gholdengo just straight up walling attemts to counteract web
Sadly Maushold just has some notable problems holding it back on being widely used. - Your bulk isn't anything to ride home about with 74/70/75 and while your immune to shadow ball you don't want to tidy up on non choiced Gold since your taking like 70% min from make it rain. - Your really predictable since the meta really restricts what you can run on a pokemon like Maushold your options are basically just stab/tidy up/encore/bite with bite usually being mandatory to not be helpless against ghost. - It also has to compete with Cinderace and its court change which while not being as good at getting rid of hazards, hampers hazard stacking and Cinderace offers more as a fast support mon with its fast Will-O-Wisp crippling a lot of great meta threats.
Moushold is just not good besides this. It can't consistently do this over a game, Gholdengo eats it alive, and Moushold has no real way to stay in the game. It can't risk its HP against anything besides getting hazards off. It can't threaten much, and risks being setup fodder without encore, which is further constricting its already iffy use cases. And it's completely dead weight if going against someone not stacking hazards at all, because there's not much room to set up Moushold for anything else as well as remove hazards. Worst of all, I don't even think it's better than Hawlucha, its direct competition in being able to remove hazards on Gholdengo, because at LEAST Hawlucha has some additional utility outside of removing hazards, and while they lack the certainty of hazard removal of Hawlucha, Talonflame and Cinderace are even less dead weight.
Gholdengo really is a big problem in the meta right now, especially in conjunction with Gliscor. I wouldn't be surprised if Gholdengo gets banned in the long run unless we get more Spinners and Defoggers that can beat Gholdengo
I doubt it. This thing is Mega Sableye. Everyone agrees it's a problem, but all the sweatiest people who consistently ladder use it, and they're the people who vote. So if it gets kicked upstairs at all, it'll be a few days before the meta ends anyways.
@@abyssalnothingness Galarian Weezing gets nuked by Make It Rain due to it's partial Fairy typing. It'd need to Tera or Defog when Gholdengo is switching in, and some sets like the Nasty Plot set would punish the hell out of G. Weezing switching out in terror of getting wiped
@@hypershadicfusionofhope9342 you don't need to tera on the switch since you can just click defog on the switch in. If you're really feeling risky you could also click taunt then switch out which I have done before, but I made sure to always have a steel type resist that's specially bulky on special side like iron moth.
@@abyssalnothingness I mentioned how Galarian Weezing needs to catch Gholdengo switching in to click Defog safely, and how switching Weezing out afterwards could be punished, but it must be emphasized how using Galarian Weezing as a Defogger with Neutralizing Gas means you're using a slow, passive Poison type that is mortally afraid of all the Ground type moves littering OU, and with Ground types like Great Tusk and Gliscor dominating the tier, Galarian Weezing just ends up being a liability against them
If they made a move that discarded hazards as a standard attack that calculates its damage if hazards, terrain, weather, are in use then ends the effect immediately would be a work around as Good as Gold works as it does as it checks the move status only so a move that does damage first THEN trashes the hazards or other effects would work around it. Unlike Rapid Spin, only the moves damage is calculated first: after damage is dealt all hazards, etc. would be discarded as the aftermath of the attack
I havent been interested in competitive Pokemon, but Gholdengo's inclusion and how its getting meta-heads scratching their heads is really fascinating and the reason why hes now my favorite Pokemon of all time now.
So its your favorite because its actively ruining a previously balanced and depthful game? Incredible. You also contradict yourself in saying that "meta-heads are scrarching their heads" considering Gholdengho IS meta. Your take is petty and the reason why bans are decided by council quickbans or req-locked suspects: opinions of r/pokemon tards or casuals who have nothing better to do than be petty assholes.
@@mrdrprofessor8849 Dynamax wasnt included in Smogon OU singles. Dynamax was swiftly banned because it was obviously broken, and Tera could be next once DLC drops.
Gholdengo is just a terribly designed pokémon in many ways. Way to get in-game, signature move and most importantly, denying crucial counterplay to hazards. Also remember it resists rocks and is immune to toxic spikes. No, the problem is not Gliscor, not even sure if it got buffed if you ask me, the problem has been Gholdengo FOR MONTHS. Of course the meta will remain HO with Gholdengo not allowing something else with enough freedom.
@@SantosOverlordIt also got indirectly buffed by the removal of Hidden Power, as Terablast with Tera Ice is a LOT more committal and abusable than HP Ice (and since Gliscor now is basically always running Protect with the loss of Roost, it's also harder to take it off guard with it
@@sephikong8323 Aand lost roost, which is a problem it's not being exploited properly due to the lack of actual good bulky waters except Ogerpon and Manaphy. Gliscor doesn't even use the new moves outside Spikes; this means it's oddly vulnerable towards grass types in practice. Yes, it is obnoxious but let's be real, just like Gliscor can use protect to predict, you can use Gliscor's protect for setup; this is Garganacl all over again.
doesnt help that stealth rocks are kinda op, its stupid that there are pokemon that are useless because they take 50% from rocks. I feel 25% max is reasonable because thats still a lot and keeps volcorona plenty in line while also giving it a reason to run another item. Also stealth rocks have no downsides, spikes dont effect flying types and pokemon with levitate but rocks effect everything.
@@ArianHosseinSheikh-vp2fn Steal, ground, and fighting types are better than bug, ice, flying, and fire types even before rocks. In fact while steel and ground have always been some of the best types bug and ice were bad typings since gen 2, fire and flying were always only decent and after rocks became kinda bad. In doubles where rocks arent common the rock weak typings go from really bad without boots to pretty in line with the other types for fire and flying and still bad for bug and ice. Steel and ground are still better typings even in doubles with no rocks while fighing is on par with flying and fire. Stealth rock helps the best types in the game and hurts the worst types in the game, that is what one calls a bad mechanic. Bug and ice especially didnt need any help to be extremally bad. Its honestly a serious problem because stealth rocks make steel, ground, and fighting types better which makes types weak to those worse on top of directly effecting rock weak pokemon. In order to be rock weak and successful in singles a pokemon needs to be better than if it wasnt rock weak, pokemon like landorous t would be way worse if they were rock weak and rolly barely used at all. The metagame revolves around whether you are weak to rock yet rock types are bad, in fact rock types are made worse by stealth rock since people avoid running rock weak pokemon and like to run rock resists which all hit it super effectivly. Its actually a really deep issue.
oh man, entry hazards dominating the meta-game? It's like gen 5/6 all over again. With hazard wars of just ending in "Screw it I'll deal with the hazards" since removal is so hard.
i feel like gliscor is good for the same reason scald as a move is good for scald, the only burn immune pokemon are fire types - which scald itself hits for supereffective damage all types can get poisoned except steel and poison types but what types can gliscors earthquake hit supereffectively? - steel and poison. there are options around this e.g corv is immune to both but drill peck and brave bird are often 3HKOs, it can easily sd or knock off or get up spikes in your face a reliable option i have found is magic guard ice beam clefable, but that fears the sd facade or crabhammer sets.
magic guard ice beam clef is indeed a good option but what od you do about it setting spikes up on other pokemon... even if you counter gliscor with like air balloon ghold it will just spike
How good do you think a pokemon with the ability to clear hazards on switch in (like a broom pokemon with the ability Street Sweep) would be? Too good, or more like Great Tusk (very very good but fair)?
Combine it with any Pivot move (U-Turn, Flip Turn, Teleport etc) and it suddenly becomes extremely strong. There's no counterplay to it as your opponent cannot react, and Pursuit isnt a thing.
Depends on what mon? GReat tusk? You are creating a pokemon that rivals p-don lvl of utility and is prob an S+ mon in OU... its prob gonna be very broken or borderline and i will be suprised if it doesnt get the boot...
@darthhydreigon820 I guess you could give it the Unware treatment where the mon running said ability has mediocre stats. I just wonder if such an easy clean up tool would be too hated by the community.
@@thehaymaker3660 I mean Pelipper is used consistently to set rain, and is held in great esteem over Politoed, a pokemon that is literally the closest thing to a blank, water shaped space that exists. Who was used, but reviled when it was the only rain setter in town. So there's your frame of reference. Removing hazards is... PROBABLY less powerful than rain in terms of overall impact on teambuilding, but would probably be more impactful than Sand, strictly as counter weather. Sand after Exadrill was banned, mind. Because it doesn't enable your plays so much as it takes the enemies' plays away. But then Sand always had really good setters. I don't know if Sand would have taken off as well if, instead of Tyranitar or Hippowdon, you had to run, like, Steelix, or Claydol to get it. Something like Claydol autospinning would almost certainly be ran often, especially because unlike, say, Hawlucha or Moushold, you don't need to run anything in particular to get it, so you can mold it to whatever your team actually needs a bit better. But I dunno if it would be seen as a Politoed or a Pellipper. A blank spot that's tolerated out of necessity, or a meaningful part of a team as well. Probably the former.
ive been running double spinner teams atm (Tusk + Cinderace) for the insurance against one of them dropping. It works well as Ace resists tusks weaknesses of ice and fairy. but its very very limiting on team building lol
I think Veil is much more of a problem honestly Ghold is great but I've never been that pressed to figure out how to spin/defog even while it's still alive
Gholdengo not getting banned is definitely a big head scratcher. The ultimate spinblocker, great Spa Att stat with a unique nuke move, immune to all non-attacking moves, and one of the best typings in the game. No idea why it's been allowed to hang around. It's endemic at this point.
I guess it's exploitable now that, for example, samurott puts hazards on his side and hits him for super effective in one single swoop, Tusk is still a great Mon but what happened is that Dengo made the metagame really aggressive, spinblock stops mattering if you can stop Dengo from ever coming in, Gliscor himself being a fantastic deterrent, the main problem I see is the lack of hazard removal pokemon because you can't role-compress your dhengo check along with your spinner, making the preparation broken from the get go because to deal with Dengo + Hazards now you need 2 pokemon, and not just 1 (See for example how Spinners in past gens could threaten spinblockers from ever trying to switch in on them, easiest example was gen 3's spike sandstorm metagame, Claydol was terrifying for Gengar to switch in on if he wanted to spinblock because he fell to 2 psychics on special sets and had it even worse if the Claydol was Physical Shadow ball, because then not even the alternative spinblockers like banette could do their job safely, dhengo doesn't have that problem because it can always come in, since it's check cannot be compressed into a single mom because even great tusk struggles with Goldy if dhengo is Flying tera
TL;DR: It singlehandedly kinda warped the metagame into hyper offense, a team structure that he doesn't deal with well. kinda like how Kingambit “Isn't broken” because even though he has no switch ins after fallen:3 + SD people are convinced that the on-paper flaws are balancing it
To be fair, you have to consider that this isn't necessarily a problem originating with the creators of Pokemon themselves. I think people are forgetting that the smogon specific 6v6 singles format was born from the community with enforced rules that Nintendo and GF do not support. The problems that are currently facing OU are in part inherently self-created and self-imposed by the community. The only metagame in which you can really fairly criticise are perhaps the doubles formats that are officially supported, and as such, a delineation needs to be created between what's community created vs what is actually supported by GF.
Ehhh… unpopular opinion: Gens 6-8 were the “Dark Age” of competitive Pokemon all because of Defog kinda made undoing progress waaaay to easy! So I’d rather take a hazard meta stack over ANY meta with buffed Defog! Just think of Good as Gold as a way of making progress your opponent can’t undo! I just love how easy it is in this meta to make progress that can’t be easily undone!
Hazards shouldnt be easy to get up in the first place. Something that punishes defensive switchins is extremely strong, even moreso than any 200 bp move in the game. Because regardless of whats popular, hazards are a staple. If your team doesnt havr anything to set hazards, resist hazards, or remove them, its objectively not optimal at best and outright bad at worse.
i really want pursuit back, but I really don't want to buff kinggambit - so many mons this edition were made with super strong stats AND great abilities AND great movepools If slaking came out today it would have the ability lazy: this pokemon does not notice the effects of status
There are two solutions to our hazard problem. 1): Ban Ghold (duh) 2): Revert back to Gen 7’s Defog distrubution. If we had 1-2 defoggers that were meta staples AND could threaten Ghold, we would be in a much better spot in terms of dealing with hazards. Defog Lando or Zapdos would not have a problem with threatening Ghold.
we can nerf hazards next gen by getting rid of them for gen 10 I mean they sorta did that with toxic :> so why not, atleast to see how the game would go without them.
Someone left the kitchen on flames for that thumbnail to be made
I'm not even going to watch the video, I just came to say how much I love this thumbnail. There is nothing to add
I genuently thought it was a false swipe gaming video ngl
Thank you so much really glad everyone liked it a lot ❤❤
@@klester8677the thumbnail was made by you? Its amazing!
dead ass
"When ribombee sets sticky web and tusk comes, now he has a dilema on what to use"
No he doesn't cause he is gonna omega die to moonblast LMAO.
Max Special Defense Assault vest Tusk can handle the Ribombee, it takes like 3 moonblast to knock it out.
@@sesilu33yeah but you have to run max spd assault vest great Tusk which honestly is not that useful
Most tusk run tera steel now I feel for this interaction
@@BlackHanzothen you waste your terra if gliso or gold swipes in
How often do you see max special Defense Assault Vest dusk? Its not used often though @@sesilu33
In gen 10, they should make bug types immune to all hazards
That would make Volcarona go even more goofy. They’ll probably either nerf good as gold or take away the evasion drop from Defog.
@@AaronTatsAw no more defiant contrary cheesy interaction
Volcarona approves
Volcarona banned from Ag
@@AaronTats all bugs shouldn’t suffer because Volc is a G 💀 like ice they need a big buff
Just my two cents: I don’t think banning Ghold or Gliscor will solve the hazard issue.
I think the main problem is the lack of viable removers since GF made the totally wonderful decision of cutting down the list of who can use defog. Heck, DLC1 gave us something that PUNISHES defog, that being Empoleon with Competitive.
Either way, I think this’ll ultimately have to be solved once DLC2 drops, assuming Defog returns as a TM and who GF decides can still have it. This is a complex issue that’s not going to have an easy solution.
Agree, people always blames Gholdengo but even with it gone the only usable defogger is Corviknight which struggles against a lot of the meta and not just Gholdengo so it is hard to fit on team, ghost types and tera ghost still block rapid spin so it would be almost the same without Gholdengo
Funniest part is that Empoleon not only punishes opposing defog, it lost its own defog
Gholdengo is indeed the problem... it makes great tusk spinning 2nd guess itself and has to either 50/50 to try to remove hazards or try to hit ghold on the switch... and that is a gamble even then cuz balloon ghold can just run over you.
Teams can also stack 2 ghosts to make sure that great tusk is always playing a mind game and god forbid smth like tera ghost garg shows up and sticks salt up ur bum
I think removing ghold is the first step to a healthier meta.. this is a very frustrating meta to be in and I would rather not have any part of it... we have to hope something happens
The artist of the thumbnail deserves a trophy
I’ve been running Imprison on my Ribombee to have a 50% chance to catch the Ribombee’s sticky web.
Smart plus you can also lock out stun spore and moonblast if the opponent has them meaning that you can shut down an opposing rimbombee
Goated thumbnail seriously love your videos man your awesome
I think one thing that would help greatly is to bring back pursuit.
Making Ghold scared of being trapped can really hamper its hazard antics. Heck, if the scisor line gets it back we got a defogger that ghold wouldn't switch in against.
Removing pursuit was impressive because it managed to be the single worst decision of the controversial Dexit. Like my last tourney was a local level Gen 5 thing and I don’t even OWN scarlet and Violet…And I’m still miffed about it.
More importantly, Tyranitar returns to OU.
@@HiddenWenno
If pursuit comes back it means that Kingambit will get it too and other physical fast mons will get it as well.Tyranitar will still be uu.People are not going to use Tyranitar over these mons.
Tyranitar needs some serious buff to come back to Ou actually.
No, that would be the biggest buff for kingambit and absolutely push kingambit over the edge (if it isn’t already). Dark types are already way too strong within the meta
@@ArianHosseinSheikh-vp2fnHonestly, if tyranitar got pursuit as an exclusive move, I can see it having a legitimate niche in OU
I miss the days when dragonite, and legendary flying mons had defog ...😔
Ehhh… *SwSh OU flashbacks intensifies*
Yeah, the problem is that nothing learns defog anymore.
Reminder: it's steel typing also lets it block Glimmora's Mortal Spin (poison rapid spin that applies poison). So it blocks both spins
Thumbnail is fantastic 👌
Another problem with great tusk being your web removal is that it is weak too moonblast the ribombee can just click moonblast and KO it.
He did mention that the 3 all can go offensively (against great tusk) unlike sitting ducks like ting lu.
Use galar wheezing since it has defog and neutralizing gas
that thumbnail art goes crazy props to the artist
The thumbnail of the video is incredible. Cheers to the artist!
Dude says Gholdengo isn’t broken meanwhile the whole meta has basically revolved around him for a year bc of his broken typing, ability and move.
And blingboi supporters use insults as if that makes them valid
I said it from the very beginning, Goldie is the most brain dead designed pokemon.
I understand wanting to shake up the hazards meta game. Defog had basically solved hazards for a long time. I think just taking away defogg from a bunch of mons would have been enough but they they make Goldie who blanks all hazards removal. A little overboard imo but it could have been ok.
Where they fucked up was making Goldie *good*. Massive Sp Atk, good speed, good defenses. It's niche was already borderline broken but they you put a gold statline behind it too? That's insane.
Funny thing tidy up is probably the best hazard removal in the game because moushold the premiere user of it can pretty easily switch into gholdango and either outspeed it or just ignore the shadow balls. Also, since it’s fall into the lower tiers people have stopped bringing counters to it meaning you can run through teams with technician bite and population bomb.
it still cannot take make it rain
its Furret time
Maus has no bulk, gets destroyed by make it rain. It also doesn't help that Gholdengo has access to trick, which REALLY fucks with utility mons
Funnily enough this is what I did. They expected a Hammorout, and got smacked by tidy up PB.
Shadow balls
Really sick thumbnail on this one! Love seeing more pokemon creators, keep it up !!
This is kinda why I enjoy Doubles/VGC more since they ain't got time for that, and will be encountering the Incin go brrr issue instead that the uninitiated will despise since Incin also marks the proximity that Restricteds get to join the party, though I have no idea whether Mythicals can get in so Arceus can finally be legal in VGC after 15+ years.
If Goldengo wasnt steel ghost type specifically the ability wouldnt be as bad on hazards as it has been. They added a new move to he a hazard removal tool om glimorra, but that's not useful when Goldengo is around immune to it, rapid spin, and defog.
5:54 you forgot a very important fact, rimbombee is a great tusk check as well. Stab moonblast shreds great tusk
Words fail to describe how greatful I am that we live in the timeline where boots weren't banned.
Imagine just how much better the meta could've been if ghost types were able to be trapped.
I'd slap magnezone on every team to check gholdengo
there is a thing with me that I never used hazard stack centred team while also having ghold, I used it a sweeper of some sort
I hate that im forced to play Cinderace in this meta
Use galar wheezing since it has defog and neutralizing gas
@@abyssalnothingnessthe steel type moves kill it
@@abyssalnothingness don't always work with my teams
@@dogeman5584 nah, Weezing is super bulky and no one uses steel type moves except for like two pokémon
@@abyssalnothingness Like GHOLDENGO? This kind of circular thinking is why they don't take regular players seriously.
That thumbnail is beautiful
I've been saying this since day one, Gholdengo has been the most format warping Pokemon ever introduced since idk maybe the gen 5 weather wars. There's like what, 2 hazard remover mons which can threaten it? It's only gotten worse since gliscor dropped since gliscor kinda counters those. If ferrothorn also comes back then just pray. I think people are going to look back on this gen 10 years from now and wonder why such an ability wasn't banned.
It would be ok if there where other hazard removers in ou. The most prevalent, tusk and corvinight r not great matchups into gholdengo. Airballoon makes gholdengo a great pivot into tusk, especially since a lot of people r using ice spinner instead of knock of now, and corv can’t touch gholdengo at all.
There's talonflame. it has swords dance, defog, roost, and flare blitz to kill gholdengo.
There's Mold Breaker Hawlucha. It's what stall was running in Freedom Cup (basically 6v6 singles with Game Freak's in game ruleset).
@@overlord3481 to you guys saying talonflame, hawlucha, etc, if they were consistent enough gholdengo checks don't you think they'd at least see some play in OU by now? the problem is that they're just not consistent enough to be good gholdengo counterplay.
The leaks said Ferrothorn isn't coming back
Gamefreak definitely made a mistake in removing defog from so many Pokémon like Lando-T
I love how your script flow so easy 🤧🌦️
also, the thumbnail that you bring??? it's so tempting :') 💫
Ah, gen 9 and their hazard alike to gen 3 but ^5 or something
Forgot to mention that Cinderace swapping hazards is useless against teams that rely on Gliscor and Clefable for setting hazards, as they are immune to them and accept the trade
How many Pokemon would be dropped to UU if Ghold gets the axe? Off the top of my head, Ribombee would absolutely get dropped, Glimmora would most likely follow, and H-Sam would probably be gone too.
Samurott wouldn't.
Setting spikes with Samurott isn't a big ask, and just because you CAN clear hazards doesn't mean there's still no cost to doing it.
It would drop in usage, but probably wouldn't drop altogether. Look at Kleavor, Kleavor is hanging tough in a tier without Gholdengo, and Samurott is way better than that thing.
That thumbnail is the stuff of dreams.
I feel like glar wheezing wasn't considered when making this video. It clears hazzards with defog and it's ability then taunts the hazard setter
he cant take a steel type atk for gold
Make a new Rapid Spin move of a type that no type is immune to (like maybe Dark or Steel). Then give it to Pokemon that ignore hazards.
A proposal if you may:
This is specifically to get around the pesky Gholdengo; what if we make a bulky remover that has Magnet Pull? Make it Steel and Flying type with good special bulk, give it some good Dark coverage like Sucker Punch or Knock Off, give it Defog.
HP: 85
Atk: 100
Def: 75
SpAtk: 69
SpDef: 120
Spd: 91
Total: 540
Not perfect for sure, but it avoids most of the relevant hazards and takes little Stealth Rock damage. Plus kills the Ponyboy Pokemon easily
This is why I use Magic Bounce Espeon, send that shit back where it came from
H-Samurott checks you though
Pokemon's had a hazard problem since like Gen 3/4. Spikes, Rocks and such have been prominent since then and things like Defog had to get buffed just to try to weaken hazards plus additions like Heavy-Duty Boots
the difference was that on past gens there were more counterplay. Before defog, for example, you still had the option to trap enemy ghost with pursuit, even on gen 3 (where pursuit was special, and for that more difficult to fit on teams) at least the most common ghost (gengar) was fragile (its true that he has bulky sets, but even them arent that "bulky") , and the better rapid spinner countered gengar (claydol) (and that without mention superman teams). Yeah now you have heavy duty boots... but at least on my opinion, thats less interesting
Absolutely fire thumbnail.
Incredible thumbnail
One othere thing that is very minor but still valid - Gholdengo is immune to trapping due to the ghost type, so whereas magnet pull enables a certain strategy around kinggambit, no such niche exists with gholdengo
The main issue i have with ribombee is that FAKE OUT DOESN'T WORK ON IT. The one thing that would work against it is sneasler, but the main issue is that bee outspeeds it at full speed, which is very common, but the fact that it can't flinch means it blatantly screws you over unless you use scarf while not being a big enough reason to commit to lacking what little utility it has in it's movesets already, not to mention gholdengo just straight up walling attemts to counteract web
I’m surprised people haven’t started using maushold again, since tidy up isn’t affected by good as gold.
Sadly Maushold just has some notable problems holding it back on being widely used.
- Your bulk isn't anything to ride home about with 74/70/75 and while your immune to shadow ball you don't want to tidy up on non choiced Gold since your taking like 70% min from make it rain.
- Your really predictable since the meta really restricts what you can run on a pokemon like Maushold your options are basically just stab/tidy up/encore/bite with bite usually being mandatory to not be helpless against ghost.
- It also has to compete with Cinderace and its court change which while not being as good at getting rid of hazards, hampers hazard stacking and Cinderace offers more as a fast support mon with its fast Will-O-Wisp crippling a lot of great meta threats.
Moushold is just not good besides this. It can't consistently do this over a game, Gholdengo eats it alive, and Moushold has no real way to stay in the game. It can't risk its HP against anything besides getting hazards off.
It can't threaten much, and risks being setup fodder without encore, which is further constricting its already iffy use cases. And it's completely dead weight if going against someone not stacking hazards at all, because there's not much room to set up Moushold for anything else as well as remove hazards.
Worst of all, I don't even think it's better than Hawlucha, its direct competition in being able to remove hazards on Gholdengo, because at LEAST Hawlucha has some additional utility outside of removing hazards, and while they lack the certainty of hazard removal of Hawlucha, Talonflame and Cinderace are even less dead weight.
Gholdengo really is a big problem in the meta right now, especially in conjunction with Gliscor. I wouldn't be surprised if Gholdengo gets banned in the long run unless we get more Spinners and Defoggers that can beat Gholdengo
I doubt it.
This thing is Mega Sableye.
Everyone agrees it's a problem, but all the sweatiest people who consistently ladder use it, and they're the people who vote. So if it gets kicked upstairs at all, it'll be a few days before the meta ends anyways.
Use galar wheezing since it has defog and neutralizing gas. I don't get why people pretend it doesn't exist
@@abyssalnothingness Galarian Weezing gets nuked by Make It Rain due to it's partial Fairy typing. It'd need to Tera or Defog when Gholdengo is switching in, and some sets like the Nasty Plot set would punish the hell out of G. Weezing switching out in terror of getting wiped
@@hypershadicfusionofhope9342 you don't need to tera on the switch since you can just click defog on the switch in. If you're really feeling risky you could also click taunt then switch out which I have done before, but I made sure to always have a steel type resist that's specially bulky on special side like iron moth.
@@abyssalnothingness I mentioned how Galarian Weezing needs to catch Gholdengo switching in to click Defog safely, and how switching Weezing out afterwards could be punished, but it must be emphasized how using Galarian Weezing as a Defogger with Neutralizing Gas means you're using a slow, passive Poison type that is mortally afraid of all the Ground type moves littering OU, and with Ground types like Great Tusk and Gliscor dominating the tier, Galarian Weezing just ends up being a liability against them
If they made a move that discarded hazards as a standard attack that calculates its damage if hazards, terrain, weather, are in use then ends the effect immediately would be a work around as Good as Gold works as it does as it checks the move status only so a move that does damage first THEN trashes the hazards or other effects would work around it. Unlike Rapid Spin, only the moves damage is calculated first: after damage is dealt all hazards, etc. would be discarded as the aftermath of the attack
This is one of the best thumbnails I have ever seen 👀
I havent been interested in competitive Pokemon, but Gholdengo's inclusion and how its getting meta-heads scratching their heads is really fascinating and the reason why hes now my favorite Pokemon of all time now.
So its your favorite because its actively ruining a previously balanced and depthful game? Incredible. You also contradict yourself in saying that "meta-heads are scrarching their heads" considering Gholdengho IS meta. Your take is petty and the reason why bans are decided by council quickbans or req-locked suspects: opinions of r/pokemon tards or casuals who have nothing better to do than be petty assholes.
@royalgelly8948 Dynamax was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Gen 8 competitive looked so boring I slept through the entirety of it.
@@mrdrprofessor8849 Dynamax wasnt included in Smogon OU singles. Dynamax was swiftly banned because it was obviously broken, and Tera could be next once DLC drops.
Gholdengo is just a terribly designed pokémon in many ways. Way to get in-game, signature move and most importantly, denying crucial counterplay to hazards. Also remember it resists rocks and is immune to toxic spikes.
No, the problem is not Gliscor, not even sure if it got buffed if you ask me, the problem has been Gholdengo FOR MONTHS. Of course the meta will remain HO with Gholdengo not allowing something else with enough freedom.
gliscor got buffed as it got even more hazards to send out, but thats about it since it lost roost
@@SantosOverlordIt also got indirectly buffed by the removal of Hidden Power, as Terablast with Tera Ice is a LOT more committal and abusable than HP Ice (and since Gliscor now is basically always running Protect with the loss of Roost, it's also harder to take it off guard with it
@@sephikong8323 Aand lost roost, which is a problem it's not being exploited properly due to the lack of actual good bulky waters except Ogerpon and Manaphy. Gliscor doesn't even use the new moves outside Spikes; this means it's oddly vulnerable towards grass types in practice. Yes, it is obnoxious but let's be real, just like Gliscor can use protect to predict, you can use Gliscor's protect for setup; this is Garganacl all over again.
doesnt help that stealth rocks are kinda op, its stupid that there are pokemon that are useless because they take 50% from rocks. I feel 25% max is reasonable because thats still a lot and keeps volcorona plenty in line while also giving it a reason to run another item. Also stealth rocks have no downsides, spikes dont effect flying types and pokemon with levitate but rocks effect everything.
But there are plenty of steel,ground, fighting types who resist it
@@ArianHosseinSheikh-vp2fn Steal, ground, and fighting types are better than bug, ice, flying, and fire types even before rocks. In fact while steel and ground have always been some of the best types bug and ice were bad typings since gen 2, fire and flying were always only decent and after rocks became kinda bad. In doubles where rocks arent common the rock weak typings go from really bad without boots to pretty in line with the other types for fire and flying and still bad for bug and ice. Steel and ground are still better typings even in doubles with no rocks while fighing is on par with flying and fire.
Stealth rock helps the best types in the game and hurts the worst types in the game, that is what one calls a bad mechanic. Bug and ice especially didnt need any help to be extremally bad. Its honestly a serious problem because stealth rocks make steel, ground, and fighting types better which makes types weak to those worse on top of directly effecting rock weak pokemon. In order to be rock weak and successful in singles a pokemon needs to be better than if it wasnt rock weak, pokemon like landorous t would be way worse if they were rock weak and rolly barely used at all.
The metagame revolves around whether you are weak to rock yet rock types are bad, in fact rock types are made worse by stealth rock since people avoid running rock weak pokemon and like to run rock resists which all hit it super effectivly. Its actually a really deep issue.
oh man, entry hazards dominating the meta-game? It's like gen 5/6 all over again. With hazard wars of just ending in "Screw it I'll deal with the hazards" since removal is so hard.
i feel like gliscor is good for the same reason scald as a move is good
for scald, the only burn immune pokemon are fire types - which scald itself hits for supereffective damage
all types can get poisoned except steel and poison types
but what types can gliscors earthquake hit supereffectively? - steel and poison.
there are options around this e.g corv is immune to both but drill peck and brave bird are often 3HKOs, it can easily sd or knock off or get up spikes in your face
a reliable option i have found is magic guard ice beam clefable, but that fears the sd facade or crabhammer sets.
magic guard ice beam clef is indeed a good option but what od you do about it setting spikes up on other pokemon... even if you counter gliscor with like air balloon ghold it will just spike
Might be worth mentioning how ribombee can ohko tusk with moonblast, too
This thumbnail is so sick
How good do you think a pokemon with the ability to clear hazards on switch in (like a broom pokemon with the ability Street Sweep) would be? Too good, or more like Great Tusk (very very good but fair)?
Pretty broken, only way it wouldn't be is if it was a unique ability limited to one particular Mon which isn't all that good otherwise
Combine it with any Pivot move (U-Turn, Flip Turn, Teleport etc) and it suddenly becomes extremely strong. There's no counterplay to it as your opponent cannot react, and Pursuit isnt a thing.
Depends on what mon?
GReat tusk? You are creating a pokemon that rivals p-don lvl of utility and is prob an S+ mon in OU... its prob gonna be very broken or borderline and i will be suprised if it doesnt get the boot...
@darthhydreigon820 I guess you could give it the Unware treatment where the mon running said ability has mediocre stats. I just wonder if such an easy clean up tool would be too hated by the community.
@@thehaymaker3660
I mean Pelipper is used consistently to set rain, and is held in great esteem over Politoed, a pokemon that is literally the closest thing to a blank, water shaped space that exists.
Who was used, but reviled when it was the only rain setter in town.
So there's your frame of reference.
Removing hazards is... PROBABLY less powerful than rain in terms of overall impact on teambuilding, but would probably be more impactful than Sand, strictly as counter weather. Sand after Exadrill was banned, mind.
Because it doesn't enable your plays so much as it takes the enemies' plays away.
But then Sand always had really good setters. I don't know if Sand would have taken off as well if, instead of Tyranitar or Hippowdon, you had to run, like, Steelix, or Claydol to get it.
Something like Claydol autospinning would almost certainly be ran often, especially because unlike, say, Hawlucha or Moushold, you don't need to run anything in particular to get it, so you can mold it to whatever your team actually needs a bit better.
But I dunno if it would be seen as a Politoed or a Pellipper. A blank spot that's tolerated out of necessity, or a meaningful part of a team as well.
Probably the former.
Funnily enough you know what spinner that could deal with gholdengo..... Hitmontop
Please explain because Ghost is immune to Fighting.
Court change and magic bounce time
ive been running double spinner teams atm (Tusk + Cinderace) for the insurance against one of them dropping. It works well as Ace resists tusks weaknesses of ice and fairy.
but its very very limiting on team building lol
that shows how bad the problem is.... i dont think they are healthy for the meta... game freak sucks for removing our hazard removal options
God, i hate hazards... went up against a hazard team, and they wrecked me. Chipped me down enough where one good attack will knock me out.....ugh
Thumbnail go crazy
Do you think that their will be a new mon that is defensive with mold breaker and defog would impact gholdengo?
Moushold the goat with tidy up and crunch
time for tidy up furret to rise back to OU
Sticky Web is now viable thanks to this greedy beast...
That a beautiful thumbnail
Just ban Terastal and all Gholdengo Coin Flips is gone.
No seriously hazards made me really dislike team building in gen 9 bc they’re so hard to get rid of
I think Veil is much more of a problem honestly Ghold is great but I've never been that pressed to figure out how to spin/defog even while it's still alive
The power creep in Gen IX has been absolutely nuts.
Gholdengo not getting banned is definitely a big head scratcher. The ultimate spinblocker, great Spa Att stat with a unique nuke move, immune to all non-attacking moves, and one of the best typings in the game.
No idea why it's been allowed to hang around. It's endemic at this point.
I guess it's exploitable now that, for example, samurott puts hazards on his side and hits him for super effective in one single swoop, Tusk is still a great Mon but what happened is that Dengo made the metagame really aggressive, spinblock stops mattering if you can stop Dengo from ever coming in, Gliscor himself being a fantastic deterrent, the main problem I see is the lack of hazard removal pokemon because you can't role-compress your dhengo check along with your spinner, making the preparation broken from the get go because to deal with Dengo + Hazards now you need 2 pokemon, and not just 1 (See for example how Spinners in past gens could threaten spinblockers from ever trying to switch in on them, easiest example was gen 3's spike sandstorm metagame, Claydol was terrifying for Gengar to switch in on if he wanted to spinblock because he fell to 2 psychics on special sets and had it even worse if the Claydol was Physical Shadow ball, because then not even the alternative spinblockers like banette could do their job safely, dhengo doesn't have that problem because it can always come in, since it's check cannot be compressed into a single mom because even great tusk struggles with Goldy if dhengo is Flying tera
TL;DR:
It singlehandedly kinda warped the metagame into hyper offense, a team structure that he doesn't deal with well.
kinda like how Kingambit “Isn't broken” because even though he has no switch ins after fallen:3 + SD people are convinced that the on-paper flaws are balancing it
To be fair, you have to consider that this isn't necessarily a problem originating with the creators of Pokemon themselves. I think people are forgetting that the smogon specific 6v6 singles format was born from the community with enforced rules that Nintendo and GF do not support. The problems that are currently facing OU are in part inherently self-created and self-imposed by the community. The only metagame in which you can really fairly criticise are perhaps the doubles formats that are officially supported, and as such, a delineation needs to be created between what's community created vs what is actually supported by GF.
Gholdengo is just a businessman, doing business
Ehhh… unpopular opinion: Gens 6-8 were the “Dark Age” of competitive Pokemon all because of Defog kinda made undoing progress waaaay to easy! So I’d rather take a hazard meta stack over ANY meta with buffed Defog!
Just think of Good as Gold as a way of making progress your opponent can’t undo! I just love how easy it is in this meta to make progress that can’t be easily undone!
With new suspect tests rumored, UUbers is aboutta be eating GOOD
Hot take: Defog made people too used to having hazards gone without needing to worry about it getting blocked.
Hazards shouldnt be easy to get up in the first place. Something that punishes defensive switchins is extremely strong, even moreso than any 200 bp move in the game. Because regardless of whats popular, hazards are a staple. If your team doesnt havr anything to set hazards, resist hazards, or remove them, its objectively not optimal at best and outright bad at worse.
Is there a skill that removes hazards and buff the user instead of being a status/debuff move?
Maushold's Tidy Up
@rileydavidson180 right, goldengo does t block that one correct? And which pokemon can match against it that could use it?
why is Undertale (the song) playing in the background at 7:00 and 7:28
Well.. what would be good would be something like rapid spin as a tupe that wasnt normal type honestly
i really want pursuit back, but I really don't want to buff kinggambit -
so many mons this edition were made with super strong stats AND great abilities AND great movepools
If slaking came out today it would have the ability lazy: this pokemon does not notice the effects of status
There are two solutions to our hazard problem.
1): Ban Ghold (duh)
2): Revert back to Gen 7’s Defog distrubution. If we had 1-2 defoggers that were meta staples AND could threaten Ghold, we would be in a much better spot in terms of dealing with hazards. Defog Lando or Zapdos would not have a problem with threatening Ghold.
This is GF telling you F you.
Money is all that matters
This meta sounds great for Iron Treads to make a return
Nah I complained about ghouldengo day 1 and yall disagreed. Suffer with dengo now
nah the most innovative is dondozo tatsugiri interaction
amazing thumbnail omfggggg
4:10 hatterenes name 😭
And yet smogon is still complete jokes banning volcorona from ou
More trainers should use mandibuzz
Threatens with dark type moves and so gholdengo will switch and then you can use defog
Or gholden wont switch in
I lowkey love Ribombee being OU, but Gholdengo is annoying.
Lmfao you didn't even mention the ability Neutralizing Gas with Defog.
what if you just ban entry hazards? *change my mind .txt*
we can nerf hazards next gen by getting rid of them for gen 10 I mean they sorta did that with toxic :> so why not, atleast to see how the game would go without them.
Ban gholdengo. Ive said this since the mon was introduced with 40% usage
Unban arena trap jsut to spite ghondengoo, not like dugtrio can kill great tusk
We ditto & throw down the same hazards 😅
Honestly the current metagame just seems like worse gen 3 ou
How?
Both are heavily characterized by spikes and spin-blockers
It's gen 5 problem basically.
I always have said “Deefog” but he says “d’fog”
Who is correct?
I say both
THAT THUMBNAIL
This is making me realize how wack comp pokemon is
In the future we won't understand why Gholdengo wasn't quickbanned shortly after Iron Bundle.
How would competitive pokemon look if items werent involved? Would that make it worse? Better? No real change?
Worse
Worse
Worse
MUCH WORSE. Do you think hazards are a problem now?
So much worse and pokémon would be a much less interesting game
I hate Gholdengo so god damn much.