Jesus says : If I testify of myself my testimony is not true . So if Jesus was God the Father in a different mode, then his testimony would be false . Modalism is an heresy
Old biblical Modalism doesnt say Jesus is "God the Father in a different mode". Thats the heresy of Patripassianism. True Modalism Acknowledges "Father" and "Son" who are both "The Lord" and "The Spirit" as expressed allthroughout the Old and New testament as images/projections/processions of the Same God in Spacetime. 1) the Word of God is the Spirit of God: The Ruach ha Kodesh and by default God himself. 2) it is also preincarnate Christ in his true form in preeminance as the Word in John 1:1 (greek: Arche - mistranslated as "beginning") 3) Exodus 23:20-21 is combined with Mark 3:28-29 to paint a clear picture of one "who bears the name of God" and cannot be rebelled against: that sin cannot be forgiven. So this is clearly the Holy Spirit, the Word of God - who is God. True biblical Modalism holds that God as "The [only] Holy Spirit" (see for example luke 18:19 - no one is Good but God(not Pater)) can present himself in many forms. This in and of itself is not contrary to Trinitarianism as it is in line with God: the Father and God: the Son being of the same nature and substance: the substance of : God: The Spirit. For scripture says: "The Lord is THE Spirit" and both Adonaj (Father) and Kyrious (Son) are THE LORD:who is THE SPIRIT and therefor the HOLY SPIRIT The verse you quoted frames Jesus saying: 1 Jesus is God: a)"I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 31If I testify about Myself, My testimony is not valid. " but later on he says: b) "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me." and yet later he is declared preincarnate Christ and Melchizedek : c) "Melchizedek: WITHOUT FATHER or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, LIKE THE SON OF GOD, he remains a priest for all time." but further is said: d) Christ is the Lord as is the Father. Yet YHWH in Isaiah 43:11 says "I even I am the Lord and BESIDE me there is NO OTHER SAVIOUR" 2) "GOD" is not equivalent to "FATHER" a) We also know of a verse that says that NO ONE has seen God but Christ who is God: "biblehub.com/1_john/4-12.htm b) but there are verses that clearly show that the Father has been seen in the NT biblehub.com/matthew/11-27.htm "No one knows the Father... except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him." and furthermore we know that the prophet Daniel Saw the Father: as "The Ancient of Days" in a vision who in Isaiah 9:6 is called "The Everlasting Father" and presented as a name for the Son: "6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Here clearly the Father and the Son are presented as ONE and the SAME being. My problem with the trinity is that they say >God is "triune" in eternity. But even science and the reality of Photons disprove this notion. God is light, and in him no darkness (no matter to disperse or slow down/change frequency): Photons being all the same "nature and substance" are only distinguishable from eachother if they as "white/colorless" light are being refracted by a prism [on the face of the waters]. This is where "the light of God" assumes different modes as does light become visible as different "monochromatic" colors due to the photons moving with different speeds through the "prism/mass/drop of water". The problem is that the trinity is a old Model that tried to explain a comprehensive reality of the ONE God when people did not even know what photons actually were. It is the actual heresy: along with unitarianism, patripassianism and other "Christian" views - the error is soemtimes small.
@@jcarnegie5772 We'll since we dont know the true nature of a god being cant a hindu argue that all their gods are persons and actually form one god being just like the Christian God?
@@YAHOOISNOTG we do know the true nature of God based on what the bible tells us. There is clearly a relationship between the Father, the Son and the HolySpirit. Jesus did not bear witness of himself. The Father and the HolySpirit beared witness of the Son. The Father sent the Son to completed a mission of bringing salvation and Jesus prayed to the Father to send the HolySpirit to be with the followers of the way when Jesus went back to glory being seated at the right hand of the Father.
Do you have any resources you could direct me to that could help in opening the eyes of a friend I have who's involved in the Oneness/Modalist movement? Was it actually reading the Bible that allowed you to start to see? Any help would be greatly appreciated! 🙂
What do you mean nothing lines up with oneness modalism. The problem is: you probably don't even know what modalism says. I would like you to explain who, the modalists say, Jesus is. Because I'm pretty sure you don't know. I'll eventually come back to it.
I spent 13 years in a oneness pentecostal church AKA Apostolic Church. I broke away from it and my wife stayed, needless to say she Divorced me. IM FREE NOW!!
@@ManlyServant Actually oneness Jesus believers believe that Jesus Christ is the Father who existed in all times and entered the world as the Son of God
@@ManlyServant I wonder if the divorce law could clarify the issue with the trinity. God called Israel his wife on many occasions. After her transgressions God divorced her. According to the law in Deut and Romans 7 a wife can not remarry her husband if they divorced (see Jer 3:8). God had to die on the cross the enable Israel to return to him. She was cut off. The question is: Who did Israel marry or enter into a covenant with? God, Jesus, Holy Spirit? Or the Godhead? Whoever she "married" in the spiritual sense had to be the one who died for her sins. Jesus, as the son of God could not die for Israel as the divorced wife of God.
yes,Jesus has pre-human existence that was WITH father,and loving each other WITH father,and has glory WITH father,it proves that he cant be the father Himself,they are different Person,Modalism destroys The Gospel.
It's not. It's a formula. Like the formulas theoretical physicists try and come up with to explain some imaginary idea. What is very real are Christians battle to keep their head above water while the world supports gay rights, grooms kids for pedophilia, tyrannical governments, poverty, militant atheism, new world order agendas. Try to put play the serious reality of the trinity in my country - South Africa. In our churches it's obvious that a in depth understanding of the trinity is a luxury only some scholars and preachers have. Most people pay lip service to the idea but they don't understand it and never will. Honestly, most Christians don't have a high enough IQ for this stuff. I don;t mean it offensive but just take a look around you! They don;t believe it because they understand it, they believe it because the church tells them so.
I encourage people watching this to actually study the Oneness doctrine, as some trinitarians (intentionally or not) tend to misrepresent what Oneness Pentecostals believe. Rather you take an interest or want to know how to refute it better, it can only do you good.
Its absurd how badly informed these trinitarians are. Some of us modalists are Marcellian "hypomiastatic" Christians. We affirm the persons of God as distinct, but still hold that in eternity there is only ONE singular undivided spirit (1 john 1:5)
I have attended a pentecostal church and they are insisting there doctrine is the truth, and under there docrtrine is that no one will enter the heaven if a person will not repent and be baptized in water and holy ghost. So my question to them is, what if they are sharing the word of God to someone who is about to die in the hospital, does the patient need to be baptized in water and in holy spirit despite his condition?
The pentecoastal position is based on Acts 8:16 in which there were some who accepted the Gospel of Christ and yet where not filled with the Holy Spirit. It is also based on Jesus' words in "“Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.". Where I see the problem is that, allthough this seems to be true in general - we are born of water (by breaking the womb of the mother) and born by spirit (in accepting and calling upon the name of Christ as Lord) Romans 10:9 then completly rejects their position as false: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." You need no works, no obedience, no "staying in Christ". This verse clearly says If you 1) proclaim Christ and 2) believe that he was raised by God from the dead then 3) you will be saved. No pentecoastal has the authority to reject that. But modalism is still better than trinitarianism. God in eternity is ONE - not triune.
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 First of all the last example of Paul ever leading someone to salvation is in Acts ch 19 and the disciples. In the chapter upon perceiving that they had not recieved the Holy Spirit he asked them, " How then were you baptized ?". Upon learning that it was John's baptism he told them that John said to believe in the one to come after him, Jesus Christ. They didn't say that they believed by making a confession of faith or ask Jesus to come into their hearts, they believed by what the did and that was to go down to the water so Paul could baptize them. Upon Paul baptizing them and laying hands on them, the Word says that they spoke in tongues. There has never, in scripture, been any indication that Paul varied on how he led people to salvation including those he did as he formed churches among the gentiles. All of Paul's letters began with " greetings to the saints". These were already churches formed by Paul. These weren't evangelistic letters to seekers but further instructions in the faith to believers saved according to Paul's example in Acts ch.19 The only difference was that the same salvation message Paul and the other apostles also taught was now focused primarily on gentiles instead of jews.
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 The major flaw that the protestant reformers made was that in their zeal to escape the catholics saved by works teachings they went too far the other way to where obedience to the gospel plan of salvation they classified as " works". If water baptism is a " work" than so is repentance because both are acts of obedience we must do in order to be saved.
They are liers. Unwitting charletons working for a wolf in shining garments. Think. Did the thief have to come off the cross and get baptised at the last minute?? Think. Are people into voodoo who speak in tongues saved? Think. Find the verse were Paul asks if all speak in tongues, does he describe 2 different kinds of tongues there? Or is that adding to the text. Keep digging. The Word is your flashlight, it doesn't have to align to their teaching, their teaching has to align to the Word. Remember the Bible says the Word did NOT JUST endwell flesh but rather, the Word was actually MADE flesh. ...it says we actually saw and handled God not just a man in whom God endwelt, it says God actually has blood. If you need verses. Comment back to me.
@@applepie5357 I would still be careful with that language because if someone attended that type of church before it doesn't mean for a fact they are heretical they could be Christian just attending that church. Now I'm trinitarian but if they are baptizing in Jesus christs name I still think those members if repentant of sin can still go to heaven
Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ to understand this stuff. I tried but for a guy who's just trying to keep his family afloat and get by each day this stuff is a scholar luxury I can't afford. I was in my thities when I accepted Jesus as my savior. Since then I've never prayed to some trinity God but the God I worship and pray to has helped us through some terrible times. If that God is not the God of my Bible then I don't know. So I guess I am a modalist when I pray.
Isaiah 48:16, John 5:37, John 8:18, John 16:13, John 17:22 are why I'm a trinitarian, I don't think it's possible to be honest about those verses and be a modalist
Actually, the reverse is true. If one were to believe that Jesus was only in Heaven right now, and not on earth also, that denies His deity. As it says in Romans 8:9-10; 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. This shows that the Spirit of Christ is in us while still being in Heaven. He fills all things, as Ephesians 4:10 proclaims, and 1 Peter 1:11 declares this about the Spirit of Christ in the prophets: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. To Nicodemus, Jesus also said in John 3:13 that the Son of Man is in Heaven, present tense, yet He was also here on earth speaking to him. Christ Jesus is, was and will always be omnipresent
When the time has come, and there is no more night… and the Lord our God will be our light…How many lights will there be?three or one?? When God walks with us again, will I say good morning three times or once?
We are three, body soul and spirit, yet considered one person. Don’t get too technical, God is three also yet one. All through scripture Trinity rings out loud. We do not have enough tools to understand Trinity yet, we have just invented AI and there are still more to come, just face life with an open mind. In life there are always three. Eccliasties 4:9-12 And if one falls down, the other helps, But if there’s no one to help, tough! Two in a bed warm each other. Alone, you shiver all night. By yourself you’re unprotected. With a friend you can face the worst. Can you round up a third? A three-stranded rope isn’t easily snapped. Also The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you. Amen. Thanks for uploading.
I got one question why can’t God be the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit at the same time? I feel like ppl limit God by trying to rationalize him so they can understand.
@Tyler B #2 if you’re referring to the Catholic Church, that church does not have authority from god. But that church didn’t determine cannon, they discovered it. The people Jesus authorized to speak authoritatively on church doctrines and policies would be authoritative even if the Catholic Church never complied it.
@Tyler B #2 I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Sometimes called mormons since we have an extra book of scripture called the Book of Mormon. We teach the deity of Christ as well, but I think we both agree that’s not the only important doctrine
@Tyler B #2 Depends on what you mean. We Believe God, his son, and the Holy Ghost are separate and distinct persons, not one in substance. We do not accept post biblical creed‘s as inspired. Therefore the modern doctrine of the Trinity, that the father son and Holy Ghost are literally one is contrary to what we believe. In our theology if you were to meet the members of the Godhead, you would see three people. I’m not sure how to make that clear, but if it’s confusing please let me know. We do not believe in a competing pantheon of gods if that’s what you imagined. Trinitarians and us both agree that there Are multiple members in the Godhead but are unified. We simply disagree on how they are unified. We believe it is symbolic not literal a.k.a. unified in purpose and power
Your comment about the HOLY spirit being "universal diety reminds me of another problem, The HOLY SPIRT was given to all of us forever (John 14 : 16) l. But JESUS is only with us when we gather in groups of 2 or three in HIS name (Mathew 18 : 19 and 20.) How can JESUS be always with us and only with us when we meet those conditions? I don't see this as a question about the omnipotence of GOD but more of each person of the Trinity having specific rules for how we interact with them. Also, the HOLY SPIRIT interceeds between us and the FATHER and JESUS is our mediator betwee us and the FATHER. Neither of which can Oneness account for.
1:27 “was the Father” he is all the beings at once. He didn’t leaven one essence to become another. He is all. Y’all confused because of lack of understanding.
How does comprehending the nature of Christ as a modalist an assault on Christ. The Bible teachers to obtain salvation you must believe that God sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ and if you believe in him you will have eternal life. There is no passage which requires that you are dammed if your don’t believe in the trinity. Please show me in the Bible that if you reject the trinity you will be dammed. Shel me where it states that God is one and 3 persons.
The Trinity is Unbiblical. Just because James White doesn’t understand the Oneness of God as taught in scripture, and how it relates to the Incarnation of that One God, doesn’t mean that God is Two, or possibly Three. Either the Greatest Commandment is the standard for our theology or something else is the standard, but God can never be called the opposite of the Greatest Commandment. God is not TWO or THREE, but GOD IS numerically and absolutely ONE. 👈
@@HonestlyTho-ThePodcastShow WRONG. The Father is not the Holy Spirit, neither the Son. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son. 3 eternal persons share eternally the Being of God.
Orthodox Trinitarianism was not fully developed until the end of the 4th century at the earliest. Trinitarianism succeeded Modalism. The Modalists were the successors to the Apostles. This is a basic fact of Christian history and is even admitted by Trinitarian scholars.
Throughout the Old Testament the word of the lord came and appeared to the prophets, then John says the word became flesh, then there is God and the Spirit of God so that’s 3 I the Old Testament 😭
I’m just wondering two things maybe someone can explain….. it is said “the trinity is three persons one god” ….. what does that even mean how can three separate beings be one being that seems like just convenient word play. They are either three beings or one being and if one being then why three bodies/forms at the same time but if separate how can they be one god unless it is more related to one god in purpose not physical being The second question is what is Jesus’ role with God for the eternity before the creation of this world? It seems his role is to die for our sins so what else is he doing for eternity? Just wondering, thanks.
@@joop6463 Define person. Conjoined twins are two persons in one being, but God is only spirit with no body, so what makes them one? Are there two levels of spirit? Jesus is his own spirit but he's also part of the same spirit of the big God? What is a spirit anyway? One in purpose? That just sounds so Mormon though.
1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: We're to be "one" in a sense with all Christians and Christ's spirit. Could it be in the same sense?
PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11 NIV [6] Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; [7] rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. [8] And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross! [9] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, [10] that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, [11] and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
In classic modalism The son is not Divine? Who said that? God was manifest in the flesh,The fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him Bodily .” The father that dwells in me he doeth the works” so God the son was incarnate in Mary? God the father is one with the man Jesus Christ. I and my father are one
..does not my father declare that godliness is a great mystery.. ..God was manifest in the flesh.. ..justified in the spirit.. ..seen of angels.. ..preached unto the gentiles.. ..believed on in the world.. ..received up into glory.. ..this man and all of his brood have sought to unravel the mystery through the eyes of flesh and in doing have stored up unto themselves a great condemnation as they have separated my father into three distinct persons and in doing so have denied both the father and the son.. ..flee from the the teachings of this man which are and were born in the heart and mind of lucifer.. ..God is one singular person and was manifest in the flesh and this my brothers and sisters is without controversy a great mystery.. ..do not allow your minds to be spoiled by the vain babblings of a man steeped in the philosophy of the flesh.. ..Jesus is my Father, I am his son and we are one..
@@JonJGuev91 Uh no. The didache 's reference might be the same as Matthew but like all early Christians, no one worshiped a trinity. It wasn't understood like that until Nicaea. Worst, only in 362 was the problem with the Holy Spirit in the trinity doctrine finally resolved.
Wrong. Someone failed intro to church history. Funny how every single father in the ancient church actively, and unanimously rejected modalism and severely called out sabellius when he began to spread his nonsense
Joh 14: 8-11 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. (9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." Eph 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
What about all the Hebrew and Greek words that when we go back in translation are about “one” and being one and so on? I’m English, we can still debate a lot. In translation, it seems more clear that God is one, and one only.
Jesus goes into the presence of GOD? So god goes into the presence of god? So jesus , god the son who has been god for all eternity ISNT omnipresent? He has to go into the presence of god . Interesting that god has to go into the presence of god.
Trinity is an intellectual attempt to explain a spiritual God, the tares in the wheat and the tares parable. The spiritual wheat understand the spiritual identity of God. Like all the sinful people on earth, they claim those following the truth are the cult. But that is OK since God said He will separate the tares from the wheat and burn them in the end. Again those who are in Satan's intellectual darkness will accuse those spiritually in the light of being the cult. Said a more simplified manner, the litmus test for membership in the tares is that you pledge allegiance to the Trinity.
If this passage of scripture, which teaches that the Lord God IS ONE HE, can be true and the Trinity then sure...... But obviously this one passage alone rejects any notion of any Triune God. The Bible clearly states... Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: ³⁰And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. ³¹And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. ³²And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
You guys make it so complicated . The father is the invisable inteligent omnipotant eternal inteligence of all life and creation that never changes in whom all things consist the creator Of whom Jesus was the express image of his person incarnated into flesh that was manifested out of the father and when he was glorified when back into the father because they are the same person and the Holyguost is the Spirit or Guost of Jesus that also came out of the father .. but they are all the same person and all exist at the same time ..there are no masks or changing from one to another ... Simply the father is now the Son and the son is the father and Holyguost is the Spirit or Jesus / Father the same person and they are synonomous and when i pray to Jesus or the father i am Praying to the same One God .. Sometimes i call him father and sometimes i call him Jesus they are the same one Spirit
And where did you come up with that? So Jesus is praying to himself in the garden? Jesus is crying out to himself on the cross? Jesus is being baptized by himself? The Father was on the cross? The Father died for our sins? This is all heresy and nonsense. It's been condemned for centuries. In 1913, some goofy pentecostals brought back some old heresies for modern consumption. People who haven't studied church history or doctrine will easily fall prey to these traps.
@@andyayala5639 He said the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the same person. That there is one person. Christianity teaches that there are three divine persons that share the being of God. Christianity teaches that God is a Trinity and there are relationships within the being of God.
the way i think of the Holy Trinity is in this way. it is the personifications of God. what does it mean to personify God? it means to understand the heavenly Father in worldly terms so that the world can understand Him. but it isn't enough to think of heavenly things with worldly understanding. as christians, we should seek further understanding so that we may have heavenly understanding. so, this is when i think of the Trinity of God as the 3 core aspects of God. keep in mind that heavenly things are more complex than worldly things so my explanation is not the only way to understand this. the Father is God the Judge. the word judge should be thought of as the most general sense of the word such as decision making and also as the most literal sense in that God is the ultimate judge who will decide if we will enter into heaven or not. His judgement is also righteous. this means that anything God chooses to do is objectively good. how is His judgement righteous? His righteousness is supported by the other two aspects of Himself. the Spirit of God is God's will. it is why God decides to do anything. what is God's will? Jesus tells us that the will of God is to be glorified. at face value, the desire to be glorified can sound narcissistic until you learn what it actually means to glorify Him. Jesus tells us that we glorify God by loving our neighbor and our enemy, by forgiving those that offend us, by not judging, and by not sinning. there are many other things Jesus tells us that glorify God, but they all have one central value, love. God's will is love. finally, the Son of God is also the Word of God. this is God's expression which is truthful. it is truthful because God has ultimate knowledge and perfect understanding. also, anything that exists does not exist without God because God created all that is, has been, or ever will be. anything God expresses is. together, these 3 aspects are God.
The works of the Trinity are inseparable. God the Father is most mentioned as a judge but that is not to exclusion of the Son or Holy Spirit, they are judge as well. This is called appropiation within theology. For instance, The Father is mostly called God, but that doesn’t mean the Son isn’t God. The Son is the one who mostly gets called “Lord” or “Wisdom” but that doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit or the Son are not “Lord” or “Wisdom”. And the Holy Spirit is not the will of God. The Trinity has 1 numerical will shared by all three persons. The will of God is not only the Holy Spirit, cause the will is generated by the essence of God of which there is only one. So 1 will in the Trinity. It’s just like The Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty and the Holy Spirit is Almighty, yet there is 1 Almighty, because there is one essence and all persons of the Trinity have the fullness of this essence. Similarly, the Father has Will, the Son has Will and The Holy Spirit has will, yet there is 1 will, because there is one essence and all persons of the Trinity have the fullness of this essence. They can all have the fullness of the essence because God can’t be considered to be consistent of parts, cause he is outside of space and time. Therefore the Father is not a part of the Trinity , the Son is not a part and the Holy Spirit is not a part, therefore them being Almighty doesn’t make them 3 Almighties but 1, for they were only 3 Almighties if they were of parts, similarly there is 1 will and not 3 parts of the will, or 3 wills. In the Trinity there is also 1 center of consciousness
@@doctorirrefragibilis it's been a while since i posted this comment and my understanding of the Trinity has matured. so, i do still think the Trinity is a conceptual tool we can use to understand who God is. yes, i think the Holy Spirit is representative of the Will of God. however, we have to keep in mind that, as you said, the Holy Spirit is not separate from the Father or the Son. indeed, it is a Tri-Unity. the Holy Spirit is IN the Father and IN the Son as they are also IN the Spirit. though the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinctly separate persons of the Trinity, they are not completely separate because each is in the other. i stand by what i said each represents. the Father represents God's presence in Heaven where His righteous authority reigns over all of creation, the Son is God with us which is His true Word, and the Holy Spirit is His presence within us which is His loving Will. but this doesn't mean that God's presence in us is only the Holy Spirit because the Father and the Son are in the Spirit.
@@JeffreyMyersII Okay, but you mean representative not as exclusion to the other I hope? So you would affirm that the Son is judge as well (cause he is in the Father like you say)?
@@doctorirrefragibilis i think you may be trying to understand what God is. it is impossible for us to fully understand what He is in this life. we won't know that until we are able to stand in His Presence. i am merely stating that the Trinity helps us understand who God is. also, remember that Jesus said the Father will pass to Him the authority of judge on the last day for the judgment of those who believe in Him. so, just as Jesus' authority was given to Him by the Father while He walked the earth, which He states several times in the Gospel accounts, so to will His authority as judge come from the Father on that day.
So you are right and the White is wrong ? its just like you being sick and going to a Doctor and the doctor diagnose you-but you rather belief your neighbor diagnose of you.your neighbor is a baker. right? the baker is right and the doctor is wrong_?
The Godhead is one God in three persons. All three persons have perfect unity and agreement. Yet there is one God, with three persons, all in perfect harmony. I have confidence that we will never truly understand the entirety of this mystery until we return home to Christ in Heaven. God bless brother 💞
@@graceforman999 that's nice what your saying but the bible never not 1 time says any of that but it's ok cause I know church tradition is stronger than the bible
Dick The Disciple who is speaking in John17:5? Who is being addressed? When Jesus is praying in the garden the night of His arrest if that’s His human side praying to the divine side isn’t He still praying to Himself?
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 The one true God is not a modalist. the bible clearly explains that the one true eternal God exist in a three fold relationship. the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. John 16:13-16.
If we are made in the image of God, and we are 1 person, how is it possible God is 3 persons? If we are made in the image of God, we too should be 3 persons, but we clearly aren't. We are 1 person with 3 manifestations: body, soul, and spirit. Modalism only doesn't work, if you think of Jesus as God which is idolatry. As long as Jesus is a human being, then modalism works just fine. Only with idolatry, does polytheism an essential belief. Jesus is a manifestation of God, he's not God. We have added idol worship, human sacrifices, and the worship of god-kings to Christianity. The idea of the king as God is a pagan ideology. Remove paganism, and modalism works just fine.
Modalism is one of the worst heresies that exist. Along with Jehovas Witnesses' doctrine that Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel, it's the stupidest heresy yet.
What do you mean by "yet"? Historically, the Modalists were the successors to the Apostles and predate orthodox Trinitarianism. Just by the testimony of history, your comment makes zero sense.
When it comes to reading the BIBLE and teaching others. se never see such a human behavior in real life. for example when one gets sick one goes to a doctor to be diagnosed and one accepts the truth of ones health and condition from a doctor. one dont contradict the doctor. or goes to a friend who is a mechanic in order to be diagnosed for a physical ailment . but we see on YOU TUBE men who know nothing about Hebrew or Greek giving lectures as if they were qualified to do such a thing. we have people in this room commenting as if they know better than a greek and hebrew scholar as Doctor White.
I always question doctors and mechanics. Humans are idiots. And I know nothing about the human body or cars. With the internet, you should never just settle and put your life in someone else's hands blindly. That goes for your teeth, or the rest of your body or your mind or your car or your money.
If as John said in gospel account that God is a Spirit that no man has seen or can see and the fact that no scripture describes the Holy Spirit as having been seen then the only visible manifestation of God man will ever see is in the glorified body of Jesus Christ. The Lord himself said that, " If you have seen me then you have seen the Father" ( John 14:19 ). So the only visible representation of God man will ever see is Jesus Christ, thus making Jesus God.
Jesus said in John 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. That’s doesn’t sound like he’s god
Also said in Matthew 19:16-17 Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Goodlal Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" 17 So He said to him, )"Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." Doesn’t sound like God
Matthew 26:39 New King James Version 39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, " My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will"
@@ima8533 The apostle John in the first chapter of his gospel account says, " No man has seen God at anytime ( John 1:18) and " God is a Spirit.." ( John 4:24). John of course is speaking of the Father. We also know that the Holy Spirit can't be seen either or He would have been seen in Acts ch 2. The Son of God, Jesus ,we know, has and can be seen and is spirit, soul, and body as we are. Because the Spirit who is the Father is joined with the spirit of the Son they both, united in Spirit/spirit now dwell in His glorified body. The only God man will ever see is in that glorified body.
@@ima8533 When a believer recieves the Holy Spirit they now have two spirits, united as one, in their body but only one tongue. So we can speak in our native language and the Spirit of God can speak through us and for us in His which is the spiritual language that our English translation calls " tongues".
Jesus is not at the right hand of the Father, He is at the right hand of the POWER of God: (1) ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the RIGHT HAND OF POWER and appearing in the clouds of heaven. (2) Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the RIGHT HAND OF THE POWER of God. (3) ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and coming in the clouds of heaven. "Modalism" is a very vague term which could embrace many unknown possibilities, you surely have not thought to the following one: the problem is that it's impossible for the almighty God be here now. Why? It's due to the fact that the future is now SET IN STONE. We can have FREE WILL because we do NOT know what is written in the stone and do not care about that. But God would KNOW that future instead and that future MUST COME TRUE. This means God would NOT be OMNIPOTENT: He could not even change the weather of tomorrow! He would thus be OBLIGED to let the future set in stone EXACTLY UNFOLD like it is, nothing can be changed. God would NOT BE FREE either, because obliged to TAKE EXACTLY the God's actions already set in stone, down to the tiny detail. How could God manage to solve that problem? The almighty God was in a very distant past, before the birth of mankind and time ("...BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN. O righteous Father, the WORLD HAS NOT KNOWN YOU....") and from that temporal point He was able to OBSERVE US in his future and to take ACTIONS in that future. But this conversely means - from our point of view - that we are REACHED BY HIM from that past. God is thus actually PRESENT HERE, but ONLY with his words and actions. It's a kind of phone communication with the past, with added possibility of omnipotent actions. In other terms we can say that God IS A SPIRIT here ("God is a spirit") because He is active but those actions are actually MADE BY NOBODY. That Spirit - who is here - is called the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, the almighty God - who dwells in that distant past - corresponds to the "Father" of the baptismal formula, no one ever saw Him ("the world has not known you")... That above is from our point of view. From GOD'S POINT OF VIEW instead things are different: when the universe started the almighty God had already done ALL HIS WORK. He already decided all his future actions so that the future was now FINALLY SET IN STONE, to be made AUTOMATICALLY TRUE by his power. He had thus made EVERYTHING. He could get rid of his then USELESS power to become like a NORMAL MAN: the Son. "Son" thus means that He DERIVES from God, He is not a Son in the common sense of the word. As a normal man, He also has a relationship with God (but much stronger), He has thus a relationship with a "different Himself". The Son has thus no power at all, but He sits in heaven next to the power of God. His power is thus always "borrowed" from the Father, under his consent. God has thus already lived his "mankind experience" once as the almighty God. He is now living his "mankind experience" a second time as a normal man.
U really complicate things sir u give way to much information about whatever thoughts you describe to people make it in fewer words sir Simplify your information
@@fordtrucks7136 You are right, it's difficult. That theory was developed by me over some years, it is thus to be expected that we are dealing with a non-evident theory, which is more to be "studied" than simply "read". It is difficult because it takes into consideration interactions from the past to the future and viceversa, new concepts not existing until now. The theory demonstrates that the almighty God CANNOT BE HERE now. But the almighty God can indeed talk to us ! Where is He? He talks to us FROM A VERY DISTANT PAST. The theory states who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and the reasons for that. That is different from what stated in the trinity doctrine. For more help in understanding my theory you can check my video ua-cam.com/video/UQKp_lQQ2tQ/v-deo.html (a good part of the theory is there) please be free to ask for clarification in case of problems.
@@c19commander44 Since there are many scholars and no one can agree perfectly with each other about anything, why would you trust just this one guy as the source of all truth?
This is blatant heresy. The Father and the Son are two different persons. "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do!" Jesus is talking to himself and asking for forgiveness from himself? Heretical nonsense. Learn history.
Jesus says : If I testify of myself my testimony is not true . So if Jesus was God the Father in a different mode, then his testimony would be false . Modalism is an heresy
Old biblical Modalism doesnt say Jesus is "God the Father in a different mode". Thats the heresy of Patripassianism. True Modalism
Acknowledges "Father" and "Son" who are both "The Lord" and "The Spirit" as expressed allthroughout the Old and New testament as images/projections/processions of the Same God in Spacetime.
1) the Word of God is the Spirit of God: The Ruach ha Kodesh and by default God himself.
2) it is also preincarnate Christ in his true form in preeminance as the Word in John 1:1 (greek: Arche - mistranslated as "beginning")
3) Exodus 23:20-21 is combined with Mark 3:28-29 to paint a clear picture of one "who bears the name of God" and cannot be rebelled against: that sin cannot be forgiven.
So this is clearly the Holy Spirit, the Word of God - who is God.
True biblical Modalism holds that God as "The [only] Holy Spirit" (see for example luke 18:19 - no one is Good but God(not Pater)) can present himself in many forms. This in and of itself is not contrary to Trinitarianism as it is in line with God: the Father and God: the Son being of the same nature and substance: the substance of : God: The Spirit.
For scripture says: "The Lord is THE Spirit" and both Adonaj (Father) and Kyrious (Son) are THE LORD:who is THE SPIRIT and therefor the HOLY SPIRIT
The verse you quoted frames Jesus saying:
1 Jesus is God:
a)"I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 31If I testify about Myself, My testimony is not valid. "
but later on he says:
b) "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me."
and yet later he is declared preincarnate Christ and Melchizedek :
c) "Melchizedek: WITHOUT FATHER or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, LIKE THE SON OF GOD, he remains a priest for all time."
but further is said:
d) Christ is the Lord as is the Father. Yet YHWH in Isaiah 43:11 says "I even I am the Lord and BESIDE me there is NO OTHER SAVIOUR"
2) "GOD" is not equivalent to "FATHER"
a) We also know of a verse that says that NO ONE has seen God but Christ who is God: "biblehub.com/1_john/4-12.htm
b) but there are verses that clearly show that the Father has been seen in the NT biblehub.com/matthew/11-27.htm
"No one knows the Father... except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him."
and furthermore we know that the prophet Daniel Saw the Father: as "The Ancient of Days" in a vision who in Isaiah 9:6 is called "The Everlasting Father"
and presented as a name for the Son:
"6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
Here clearly the Father and the Son are presented as ONE and the SAME being. My problem with the trinity is that they say >God is "triune" in eternity.
But even science and the reality of Photons disprove this notion.
God is light, and in him no darkness (no matter to disperse or slow down/change frequency):
Photons being all the same "nature and substance" are only distinguishable from eachother if they as "white/colorless" light are being refracted by a prism [on the face of the waters]. This is where "the light of God" assumes different modes as does light become visible as different "monochromatic" colors due to the photons moving with different speeds through the "prism/mass/drop of water".
The problem is that the trinity is a old Model that tried to explain a comprehensive reality of the ONE God when people did not even know what photons actually were.
It is the actual heresy: along with unitarianism, patripassianism and other "Christian" views - the error is soemtimes small.
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 modalism is inherently false. One God that exist in a 3 fold relationship, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
You cant have a relationship in modalism.
@@jcarnegie5772 We'll since we dont know the true nature of a god being cant a hindu argue that all their gods are persons and actually form one god being just like the Christian God?
@@YAHOOISNOTG we do know the true nature of God based on what the bible tells us. There is clearly a relationship between the Father, the Son and the HolySpirit. Jesus did not bear witness of himself. The Father and the HolySpirit beared witness of the Son. The Father sent the Son to completed a mission of bringing salvation and Jesus prayed to the Father to send the HolySpirit to be with the followers of the way when Jesus went back to glory being seated at the right hand of the Father.
I was a part of the movement for 29 years;and as I have read through the scriptures,nothing adds up scripturally with the Oneness doctrine.
ua-cam.com/video/gvRKyzzm3L8/v-deo.html
Do you have any resources you could direct me to that could help in opening the eyes of a friend I have who's involved in the Oneness/Modalist movement? Was it actually reading the Bible that allowed you to start to see? Any help would be greatly appreciated! 🙂
@@JesusIsTheOnlyWayTruthLife watch the video above
What do you mean nothing lines up with oneness modalism. The problem is: you probably don't even know what modalism says. I would like you to explain who, the modalists say, Jesus is. Because I'm pretty sure you don't know. I'll eventually come back to it.
Jesus literally said" I and my Father are ONE.
I spent 13 years in a oneness pentecostal church AKA Apostolic Church. I broke away from it and my wife stayed, needless to say she Divorced me. IM FREE NOW!!
wow
dont believe in "Oneness Jesus",they didnt believe that Jesus has Pre-Existency,They have the false Jesus
@@ManlyServant Actually oneness Jesus believers believe that Jesus Christ is the Father who existed in all times and entered the world as the Son of God
1 Timothy 3:16 :)
@@ManlyServant I wonder if the divorce law could clarify the issue with the trinity. God called Israel his wife on many occasions. After her transgressions God divorced her. According to the law in Deut and Romans 7 a wife can not remarry her husband if they divorced (see Jer 3:8). God had to die on the cross the enable Israel to return to him. She was cut off.
The question is: Who did Israel marry or enter into a covenant with? God, Jesus, Holy Spirit? Or the Godhead? Whoever she "married" in the spiritual sense had to be the one who died for her sins. Jesus, as the son of God could not die for Israel as the divorced wife of God.
2 Corinthians 13, 14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Revelation 3:12.
@@MichaelTheophilus906 modal ism is schizophrenic doctrine
The Trinity is real
yes,Jesus has pre-human existence that was WITH father,and loving each other WITH father,and has glory WITH father,it proves that he cant be the father Himself,they are different Person,Modalism destroys The Gospel.
@@ManlyServant
Their is no angels in heaven
theirs no sons of a God
we r all God's attention
here on planet earth
@@ManlyServant
Jesus doesn't exist
It's not. It's a formula. Like the formulas theoretical physicists try and come up with to explain some imaginary idea.
What is very real are Christians battle to keep their head above water while the world supports gay rights, grooms kids for pedophilia, tyrannical governments, poverty, militant atheism, new world order agendas.
Try to put play the serious reality of the trinity in my country - South Africa. In our churches it's obvious that a in depth understanding of the trinity is a luxury only some scholars and preachers have. Most people pay lip service to the idea but they don't understand it and never will. Honestly, most Christians don't have a high enough IQ for this stuff. I don;t mean it offensive but just take a look around you!
They don;t believe it because they understand it, they believe it because the church tells them so.
@@ManlyServant God is one person with three distinct parts body soul spirit the son is the visible bodily image of God
I encourage people watching this to actually study the Oneness doctrine, as some trinitarians (intentionally or not) tend to misrepresent what Oneness Pentecostals believe. Rather you take an interest or want to know how to refute it better, it can only do you good.
Its absurd how badly informed these trinitarians are. Some of us modalists are Marcellian "hypomiastatic" Christians.
We affirm the persons of God as distinct, but still hold that in eternity there is only ONE singular undivided spirit (1 john 1:5)
There is a type of modalism that states they all three can consist simultaneously.
True, even weirder
These heresies get so wild and weird. So, (and, you don't have to answer) how is that Modalism?
@@skiddwister9143 I guess you can say it's really not modalism at all, but something far more nonsensical
@@jordangarvin9282 ua-cam.com/video/gvRKyzzm3L8/v-deo.html
Its not a type of modalism...its actually the trinity🤗
I will not leave you comfortless “ I WILL come to you .
"I will never leave you nor forsake you."
All praise to the Father Son and the Holy Spirit, the one True God!!!
Who according to Jesus in John 17:3 is the only true God ?
@@MegaTRUTH007who according to scripture made man in their own image?
@@arcguardian Jesus’s God
I have attended a pentecostal church and they are insisting there doctrine is the truth, and under there docrtrine is that no one will enter the heaven if a person will not repent and be baptized in water and holy ghost.
So my question to them is, what if they are sharing the word of God to someone who is about to die in the hospital, does the patient need to be baptized in water and in holy spirit despite his condition?
The pentecoastal position is based on Acts 8:16 in which there were some who accepted the Gospel of Christ and yet where not filled with the Holy Spirit.
It is also based on Jesus' words in "“Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.".
Where I see the problem is that, allthough this seems to be true in general - we are born of water (by breaking the womb of the mother) and born by spirit (in accepting and calling upon the name of Christ as Lord)
Romans 10:9 then completly rejects their position as false:
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
You need no works, no obedience, no "staying in Christ". This verse clearly says If you 1) proclaim Christ and 2) believe that he was raised by God from the dead then 3) you will be saved.
No pentecoastal has the authority to reject that. But modalism is still better than trinitarianism. God in eternity is ONE - not triune.
"Only MY doctrine has the truth and will lead you to heaven" said every single Christian doctrine
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 First of all the last example of Paul ever leading someone to salvation is in Acts ch 19 and the disciples. In the chapter upon perceiving that they had not recieved the Holy Spirit he asked them, " How then were you baptized ?".
Upon learning that it was John's baptism he told them that John said to believe in the one to come after him, Jesus Christ. They didn't say that they believed by making a confession of faith or ask Jesus to come into their hearts, they believed by what the did and that was to go down to the water so Paul could baptize them. Upon Paul baptizing them and laying hands on them, the Word says that they spoke in tongues.
There has never, in scripture, been any indication that Paul varied on how he led people to salvation including those he did as he formed churches among the gentiles.
All of Paul's letters began with " greetings to the saints". These were already churches formed by Paul.
These weren't evangelistic letters to seekers but further instructions in the faith to believers saved according to Paul's example in Acts ch.19
The only difference was that the same salvation message Paul and the other apostles also taught was now focused primarily on gentiles instead of jews.
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 The major flaw that the protestant reformers made was that in their zeal to escape the catholics saved by works teachings they went too far the other way to where obedience to the gospel plan of salvation they classified as " works".
If water baptism is a " work" than so is repentance because both are acts of obedience we must do in order to be saved.
They are liers. Unwitting charletons working for a wolf in shining garments. Think. Did the thief have to come off the cross and get baptised at the last minute?? Think. Are people into voodoo who speak in tongues saved?
Think. Find the verse were Paul asks if all speak in tongues, does he describe 2 different kinds of tongues there? Or is that adding to the text. Keep digging. The Word is your flashlight, it doesn't have to align to their teaching, their teaching has to align to the Word. Remember the Bible says the Word did NOT JUST endwell flesh but rather, the Word was actually MADE flesh. ...it says we actually saw and handled God not just a man in whom God endwelt, it says God actually has blood. If you need verses. Comment back to me.
Yeah, oneness and Modalism is crazy, and unbiblical doctrine.
I agree oneness and modalism is heresy
@@applepie5357 ua-cam.com/video/gvRKyzzm3L8/v-deo.html
Totally!
@@applepie5357 I would still be careful with that language because if someone attended that type of church before it doesn't mean for a fact they are heretical they could be Christian just attending that church. Now I'm trinitarian but if they are baptizing in Jesus christs name I still think those members if repentant of sin can still go to heaven
Honestly, I don't think I have a high enough IQ to understand this stuff. I tried but for a guy who's just trying to keep his family afloat and get by each day this stuff is a scholar luxury I can't afford. I was in my thities when I accepted Jesus as my savior. Since then I've never prayed to some trinity God but the God I worship and pray to has helped us through some terrible times. If that God is not the God of my Bible then I don't know.
So I guess I am a modalist when I pray.
Isaiah 48:16, John 5:37, John 8:18, John 16:13, John 17:22 are why I'm a trinitarian, I don't think it's possible to be honest about those verses and be a modalist
Jesus's baptism says it all.
Actually, the reverse is true. If one were to believe that Jesus was only in Heaven right now, and not on earth also, that denies His deity.
As it says in Romans 8:9-10;
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
This shows that the Spirit of Christ is in us while still being in Heaven. He fills all things, as Ephesians 4:10 proclaims, and 1 Peter 1:11 declares this about the Spirit of Christ in the prophets:
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
To Nicodemus, Jesus also said in John 3:13 that the Son of Man is in Heaven, present tense, yet He was also here on earth speaking to him. Christ Jesus is, was and will always be omnipresent
Well, Dr. James, as you know...these things are spiritually discerned anyway!
When the time has come, and there is no more night… and the Lord our God will be our light…How many lights will there be?three or one??
When God walks with us again, will I say good morning three times or once?
I’m here first with the first like and comment!
We are three, body soul and spirit, yet considered one person. Don’t get too technical, God is three also yet one. All through scripture Trinity rings out loud. We do not have enough tools to understand Trinity yet, we have just invented AI and there are still more to come, just face life with an open mind. In life there are always three. Eccliasties 4:9-12 And if one falls down, the other helps, But if there’s no one to help, tough! Two in a bed warm each other. Alone, you shiver all night. By yourself you’re unprotected. With a friend you can face the worst. Can you round up a third? A three-stranded rope isn’t easily snapped. Also The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you. Amen. Thanks for uploading.
I got one question why can’t God be the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit at the same time? I feel like ppl limit God by trying to rationalize him so they can understand.
The doctrine of the trinity as set forth in the post biblical creeds is not taught in the bible.
@Tyler B #2 what church?
@Tyler B #2 if you’re referring to the Catholic Church, that church does not have authority from god. But that church didn’t determine cannon, they discovered it. The people Jesus authorized to speak authoritatively on church doctrines and policies would be authoritative even if the Catholic Church never complied it.
@Tyler B #2 words from a real apostle of god are authoritative to the church, regardless of who compiled it
@Tyler B #2 I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Sometimes called mormons since we have an extra book of scripture called the Book of Mormon. We teach the deity of Christ as well, but I think we both agree that’s not the only important doctrine
@Tyler B #2
Depends on what you mean. We Believe God, his son, and the Holy Ghost are separate and distinct persons, not one in substance. We do not accept post biblical creed‘s as inspired. Therefore the modern doctrine of the Trinity, that the father son and Holy Ghost are literally one is contrary to what we believe. In our theology if you were to meet the members of the Godhead, you would see three people. I’m not sure how to make that clear, but if it’s confusing please let me know. We do not believe in a competing pantheon of gods if that’s what you imagined. Trinitarians and us both agree that there
Are multiple members in the Godhead but are unified. We simply disagree on how they are unified. We believe it is symbolic not literal a.k.a. unified in purpose and power
Your comment about the HOLY spirit being "universal diety reminds me of another problem,
The HOLY SPIRT was given to all of us forever (John 14 : 16) l. But JESUS is only with us when we gather in groups of 2 or three in HIS name (Mathew 18 : 19 and 20.) How can JESUS be always with us and only with us when we meet those conditions?
I don't see this as a question about the omnipotence of GOD but more of each person of the Trinity having specific rules for how we interact with them. Also, the HOLY SPIRIT interceeds between us and the FATHER and JESUS is our mediator betwee us and the FATHER. Neither of which can Oneness account for.
1:27 “was the Father” he is all the beings at once. He didn’t leaven one essence to become another. He is all. Y’all confused because of lack of understanding.
How does comprehending the nature of Christ as a modalist an assault on Christ. The Bible teachers to obtain salvation you must believe that God sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ and if you believe in him you will have eternal life. There is no passage which requires that you are dammed if your don’t believe in the trinity. Please show me in the Bible that if you reject the trinity you will be dammed. Shel me where it states that God is one and 3 persons.
The Trinity is Unbiblical.
Just because James White doesn’t understand the Oneness of God as taught in scripture, and how it relates to the Incarnation of that One God, doesn’t mean that God is Two, or possibly Three.
Either the Greatest Commandment is the standard for our theology or something else is the standard, but God can never be called the opposite of the Greatest Commandment.
God is not TWO or THREE, but GOD IS numerically and absolutely ONE. 👈
God is not a God of confusion
ua-cam.com/video/gvRKyzzm3L8/v-deo.html
@@HonestlyTho-ThePodcastShow WRONG. The Father is not the Holy Spirit, neither the Son. The Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son.
3 eternal persons share eternally the Being of God.
God wrote a pretty confusing book. Just saying lol.
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)
Modalism started over 200 after JESUS.
Orthodox Trinitarianism was not fully developed until the end of the 4th century at the earliest. Trinitarianism succeeded Modalism. The Modalists were the successors to the Apostles. This is a basic fact of Christian history and is even admitted by Trinitarian scholars.
@@mikef6063 Would love a source on that
Thats false
Throughout the Old Testament the word of the lord came and appeared to the prophets, then John says the word became flesh, then there is God and the Spirit of God so that’s 3 I the Old Testament 😭
I’m just wondering two things maybe someone can explain….. it is said “the trinity is three persons one god” ….. what does that even mean how can three separate beings be one being that seems like just convenient word play. They are either three beings or one being and if one being then why three bodies/forms at the same time but if separate how can they be one god unless it is more related to one god in purpose not physical being
The second question is what is Jesus’ role with God for the eternity before the creation of this world? It seems his role is to die for our sins so what else is he doing for eternity? Just wondering, thanks.
"three separate beings" thats wrong God is 3 persons in 1 being not 3 beings in 1 being
Good question... I wonder if when God said let there be light, that was Jesus coming from himself.
@@joop6463 Define person. Conjoined twins are two persons in one being, but God is only spirit with no body, so what makes them one? Are there two levels of spirit? Jesus is his own spirit but he's also part of the same spirit of the big God? What is a spirit anyway? One in purpose? That just sounds so Mormon though.
1 Peter 3:8
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
We're to be "one" in a sense with all Christians and Christ's spirit. Could it be in the same sense?
Matthew 19:6
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
I believe that modalism is actually the closest to the truth according to my studies. This guy is off.
Michael Heiser is right about the Trinity.
In what ways is God capable of manifesting himself to humans?
PHILIPPIANS 2:6-11 NIV
[6] Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; [7] rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. [8] And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross! [9] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, [10] that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, [11] and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
So many heresies to know about....
ua-cam.com/video/gvRKyzzm3L8/v-deo.html
In classic modalism The son is not Divine? Who said that? God was manifest in the flesh,The fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him Bodily .” The father that dwells in me he doeth the works” so God the son was incarnate in Mary? God the father is one with the man Jesus Christ. I and my father are one
..does not my father declare that godliness is a great mystery.. ..God was manifest in the flesh.. ..justified in the spirit.. ..seen of angels.. ..preached unto the gentiles.. ..believed on in the world.. ..received up into glory.. ..this man and all of his brood have sought to unravel the mystery through the eyes of flesh and in doing have stored up unto themselves a great condemnation as they have separated my father into three distinct persons and in doing so have denied both the father and the son.. ..flee from the the teachings of this man which are and were born in the heart and mind of lucifer.. ..God is one singular person and was manifest in the flesh and this my brothers and sisters is without controversy a great mystery.. ..do not allow your minds to be spoiled by the vain babblings of a man steeped in the philosophy of the flesh.. ..Jesus is my Father, I am his son and we are one..
Nice video, but it ended too abruptly.
The modalistic theory is what early Christians believed
@@JonJGuev91 Uh no. The didache 's reference might be the same as Matthew but like all early Christians, no one worshiped a trinity. It wasn't understood like that until Nicaea. Worst, only in 362 was the problem with the Holy Spirit in the trinity doctrine finally resolved.
Wrong. Someone failed intro to church history. Funny how every single father in the ancient church actively, and unanimously rejected modalism and severely called out sabellius when he began to spread his nonsense
Joh 14: 8-11 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. (9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
Eph 4:6 "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
What about all the Hebrew and Greek words that when we go back in translation are about “one” and being one and so on? I’m English, we can still debate a lot. In translation, it seems more clear that God is one, and one only.
Jesus goes into the presence of GOD? So god goes into the presence of god? So jesus , god the son who has been god for all eternity ISNT omnipresent? He has to go into the presence of god . Interesting that god has to go into the presence of god.
Trinity is an intellectual attempt to explain a spiritual God, the tares in the wheat and the tares parable. The spiritual wheat understand the spiritual identity of God. Like all the sinful people on earth, they claim those following the truth are the cult. But that is OK since God said He will separate the tares from the wheat and burn them in the end. Again those who are in Satan's intellectual darkness will accuse those spiritually in the light of being the cult. Said a more simplified manner, the litmus test for membership in the tares is that you pledge allegiance to the Trinity.
If this passage of scripture, which teaches that the Lord God IS ONE HE, can be true and the Trinity then sure...... But obviously this one passage alone rejects any notion of any Triune God. The Bible clearly states...
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
³⁰And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
³¹And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
³²And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
That passage doesn't reject Trinity, no passage does.
You guys make it so complicated . The father is the invisable inteligent omnipotant eternal inteligence of all life and creation that never changes in whom all things consist the creator Of whom Jesus was the express image of his person incarnated into flesh that was manifested out of the father and when he was glorified when back into the father because they are the same person and the Holyguost is the Spirit or Guost of Jesus that also came out of the father .. but they are all the same person and all exist at the same time ..there are no masks or changing from one to another ... Simply the father is now the Son and the son is the father and Holyguost is the Spirit or Jesus / Father the same person and they are synonomous and when i pray to Jesus or the father i am Praying to the same One God .. Sometimes i call him father and sometimes i call him Jesus they are the same one Spirit
And where did you come up with that? So Jesus is praying to himself in the garden? Jesus is crying out to himself on the cross? Jesus is being baptized by himself? The Father was on the cross? The Father died for our sins? This is all heresy and nonsense. It's been condemned for centuries. In 1913, some goofy pentecostals brought back some old heresies for modern consumption. People who haven't studied church history or doctrine will easily fall prey to these traps.
@@dvforevercan you name the heresy he committed
@@andyayala5639 He said the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the same person. That there is one person. Christianity teaches that there are three divine persons that share the being of God. Christianity teaches that God is a Trinity and there are relationships within the being of God.
@@andyayala5639 He is specifically denying the Trinity. The Christian understanding of who God is.
@@dvforever can you define God using scripture only?
the way i think of the Holy Trinity is in this way. it is the personifications of God. what does it mean to personify God? it means to understand the heavenly Father in worldly terms so that the world can understand Him. but it isn't enough to think of heavenly things with worldly understanding. as christians, we should seek further understanding so that we may have heavenly understanding. so, this is when i think of the Trinity of God as the 3 core aspects of God. keep in mind that heavenly things are more complex than worldly things so my explanation is not the only way to understand this. the Father is God the Judge. the word judge should be thought of as the most general sense of the word such as decision making and also as the most literal sense in that God is the ultimate judge who will decide if we will enter into heaven or not. His judgement is also righteous. this means that anything God chooses to do is objectively good. how is His judgement righteous? His righteousness is supported by the other two aspects of Himself. the Spirit of God is God's will. it is why God decides to do anything. what is God's will? Jesus tells us that the will of God is to be glorified. at face value, the desire to be glorified can sound narcissistic until you learn what it actually means to glorify Him. Jesus tells us that we glorify God by loving our neighbor and our enemy, by forgiving those that offend us, by not judging, and by not sinning. there are many other things Jesus tells us that glorify God, but they all have one central value, love. God's will is love. finally, the Son of God is also the Word of God. this is God's expression which is truthful. it is truthful because God has ultimate knowledge and perfect understanding. also, anything that exists does not exist without God because God created all that is, has been, or ever will be. anything God expresses is. together, these 3 aspects are God.
The works of the Trinity are inseparable. God the Father is most mentioned as a judge but that is not to exclusion of the Son or Holy Spirit, they are judge as well. This is called appropiation within theology. For instance, The Father is mostly called God, but that doesn’t mean the Son isn’t God. The Son is the one who mostly gets called “Lord” or “Wisdom” but that doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit or the Son are not “Lord” or “Wisdom”. And the Holy Spirit is not the will of God. The Trinity has 1 numerical will shared by all three persons. The will of God is not only the Holy Spirit, cause the will is generated by the essence of God of which there is only one. So 1 will in the Trinity. It’s just like The Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty and the Holy Spirit is Almighty, yet there is 1 Almighty, because there is one essence and all persons of the Trinity have the fullness of this essence. Similarly, the Father has Will, the Son has Will and The Holy Spirit has will, yet there is 1 will, because there is one essence and all persons of the Trinity have the fullness of this essence. They can all have the fullness of the essence because God can’t be considered to be consistent of parts, cause he is outside of space and time. Therefore the Father is not a part of the Trinity , the Son is not a part and the Holy Spirit is not a part, therefore them being Almighty doesn’t make them 3 Almighties but 1, for they were only 3 Almighties if they were of parts, similarly there is 1 will and not 3 parts of the will, or 3 wills. In the Trinity there is also 1 center of consciousness
@@doctorirrefragibilis it's been a while since i posted this comment and my understanding of the Trinity has matured. so, i do still think the Trinity is a conceptual tool we can use to understand who God is. yes, i think the Holy Spirit is representative of the Will of God. however, we have to keep in mind that, as you said, the Holy Spirit is not separate from the Father or the Son. indeed, it is a Tri-Unity. the Holy Spirit is IN the Father and IN the Son as they are also IN the Spirit. though the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinctly separate persons of the Trinity, they are not completely separate because each is in the other. i stand by what i said each represents. the Father represents God's presence in Heaven where His righteous authority reigns over all of creation, the Son is God with us which is His true Word, and the Holy Spirit is His presence within us which is His loving Will. but this doesn't mean that God's presence in us is only the Holy Spirit because the Father and the Son are in the Spirit.
@@JeffreyMyersII Okay, but you mean representative not as exclusion to the other I hope? So you would affirm that the Son is judge as well (cause he is in the Father like you say)?
@@doctorirrefragibilis i think you may be trying to understand what God is. it is impossible for us to fully understand what He is in this life. we won't know that until we are able to stand in His Presence. i am merely stating that the Trinity helps us understand who God is. also, remember that Jesus said the Father will pass to Him the authority of judge on the last day for the judgment of those who believe in Him. so, just as Jesus' authority was given to Him by the Father while He walked the earth, which He states several times in the Gospel accounts, so to will His authority as judge come from the Father on that day.
Okay so Jesus is coming back and….? That proves 3 divine beings?
Who coined the word trinitas or trinity and who formulated the doctrine of the trinity?
Modalism is a strawman argument
Isaiah 9:6 is your answer James
Unless your Jesus is LORD (GOD), you have the wrong savior 😁
Wait I dont understand how you suddenly jump to Trinity.
Using Paul the Greek to describe God.
Read John 17. It dismantles the trinity.
@@yitzharos trinity is biblical
This heathen is wrong. Three gods destroy the Gospel of the Apostles doctrine.
hey satanist, who told you the trinity is three gods? or are you trying to force you paganism on the bible
So you are right and the White is wrong ? its just like you being sick and going to a Doctor and the doctor diagnose you-but you rather belief your neighbor diagnose of you.your neighbor is a baker. right? the baker is right and the doctor is wrong_?
Can someone define what " person" means? Is the Godhead a one God in three persons? Does the Godhead have 3 different bodily form in heaven?
Yes there are 3 separate bodies . Three Gods
The Godhead is one God in three persons. All three persons have perfect unity and agreement. Yet there is one God, with three persons, all in perfect harmony. I have confidence that we will never truly understand the entirety of this mystery until we return home to Christ in Heaven. God bless brother 💞
@@graceforman999 that's nice what your saying but the bible never not 1 time says any of that but it's ok cause I know church tradition is stronger than the bible
@Tyler B #2 I was being sarcastic I dont believe in a trinty
Dick The Disciple who is speaking in John17:5? Who is being addressed? When Jesus is praying in the garden the night of His arrest if that’s His human side praying to the divine side isn’t He still praying to Himself?
The trinity destroys Christianity. Mark 12:28-32, John 17:3, John 20:17, Rom 15:6, Rom 16:27 I Tim 2:5, Rev 3:2, Rev 3:12.
The father has take on the role of the spirit? Uh no, God is spirit John 4:24 he has always been spirit genius
3 in 1 1 in 3 not confusing at all.
Billy Graham was a modalist and fooled thousands upon thousands
B. Graham was not a modalist.
Man that doctrine is twisted my goodness
This guy does not even understand the Onenness of God but his disagreeing with it😂
Yes the gospel is . John 3:16
ua-cam.com/video/gvRKyzzm3L8/v-deo.html
Yes, the Gospel is modalist. Isaiah 9:6 mentions 4 names.
3 manifest persons in creation,
but one Undivided God in eternity. (1 John 1:5)
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 The one true God is not a modalist. the bible clearly explains that the one true eternal God exist in a three fold relationship. the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. John 16:13-16.
Oh so God goes into the presence of God. Interesting .
If we are made in the image of God, and we are 1 person, how is it possible God is 3 persons? If we are made in the image of God, we too should be 3 persons, but we clearly aren't. We are 1 person with 3 manifestations: body, soul, and spirit.
Modalism only doesn't work, if you think of Jesus as God which is idolatry. As long as Jesus is a human being, then modalism works just fine. Only with idolatry, does polytheism an essential belief.
Jesus is a manifestation of God, he's not God. We have added idol worship, human sacrifices, and the worship of god-kings to Christianity. The idea of the king as God is a pagan ideology. Remove paganism, and modalism works just fine.
Modalism is one of the worst heresies that exist. Along with Jehovas Witnesses' doctrine that Jesus is actually Michael the Archangel, it's the stupidest heresy yet.
What do you mean by "yet"? Historically, the Modalists were the successors to the Apostles and predate orthodox Trinitarianism. Just by the testimony of history, your comment makes zero sense.
Modalists were before the trinity.
The gospel is Trinitarian ?
Definitely.
When it comes to reading the BIBLE and teaching others. se never see such a human behavior in real life. for example when one gets sick one goes to a doctor to be diagnosed and one accepts the truth of ones health and condition from a doctor. one dont contradict the doctor.
or goes to a friend who is a mechanic in order to be diagnosed for a physical ailment .
but we see on YOU TUBE men who know nothing about Hebrew or Greek giving lectures as if they were qualified to do such a thing.
we have people in this room commenting as if they know better than a greek and hebrew scholar as Doctor White.
I always question doctors and mechanics. Humans are idiots. And I know nothing about the human body or cars. With the internet, you should never just settle and put your life in someone else's hands blindly. That goes for your teeth, or the rest of your body or your mind or your car or your money.
Jesus became a life giving Spirit
Jesus is 100% human. He is a prophet of God.
Talk about heresy, look in the mirror
Trinity destroys the gospel, you don’t even teach what oneness people believe, so silly
0:58
If as John said in gospel account that God is a Spirit that no man has seen or can see and the fact that no scripture describes the Holy Spirit as having been seen then the only visible manifestation of God man will ever see is in the glorified body of Jesus Christ.
The Lord himself said that, " If you have seen me then you have seen the Father" ( John 14:19 ). So the only visible representation of God man will ever see is Jesus Christ, thus making Jesus God.
Jesus said in
John 5:30
I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is
righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the
Father who sent Me.
That’s doesn’t sound like he’s god
Also said in
Matthew 19:16-17
Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Goodlal Teacher, what
good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"
17 So He said to him, )"Why do you call Me good? No one is good
but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the
commandments."
Doesn’t sound like God
Matthew 26:39
New King James Version
39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying,
"
My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless,
not as I will, but as You will"
@@ima8533 The apostle John in the first chapter of his gospel account says, " No man has seen God at anytime ( John 1:18) and " God is a Spirit.." ( John 4:24).
John of course is speaking of the Father. We also know that the Holy Spirit can't be seen either or He would have been seen in Acts ch 2.
The Son of God, Jesus ,we know, has and can be seen and is spirit, soul, and body as we are. Because the Spirit who is the Father is joined with the spirit of the Son they both, united in Spirit/spirit now dwell in His glorified body.
The only God man will ever see is in that glorified body.
@@ima8533 When a believer recieves the Holy Spirit they now have two spirits, united as one, in their body but only one tongue. So we can speak in our native language and the Spirit of God can speak through us and for us in His which is the spiritual language that our English translation calls " tongues".
Jesus is not at the right hand of the Father, He is at the right hand of the POWER of God:
(1) ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the RIGHT HAND OF POWER and appearing in the clouds of heaven.
(2) Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the RIGHT HAND OF THE POWER of God.
(3) ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
"Modalism" is a very vague term which could embrace many unknown possibilities, you surely have not thought to the following one:
the problem is that it's impossible for the almighty God be here now. Why? It's due to the fact that the future is now SET IN STONE. We can have FREE WILL because we do NOT know what is written in the stone and do not care about that.
But God would KNOW that future instead and that future MUST COME TRUE. This means God would NOT be OMNIPOTENT: He could not even change the weather of tomorrow! He would thus be OBLIGED to let the future set in stone EXACTLY UNFOLD like it is, nothing can be changed. God would NOT BE FREE either, because obliged to TAKE EXACTLY the God's actions already set in stone, down to the tiny detail.
How could God manage to solve that problem? The almighty God was in a very distant past, before the birth of mankind and time ("...BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN. O righteous Father, the WORLD HAS NOT KNOWN YOU....") and from that temporal point He was able to OBSERVE US in his future and to take ACTIONS in that future. But this conversely means - from our point of view - that we are REACHED BY HIM from that past. God is thus actually PRESENT HERE, but ONLY with his words and actions. It's a kind of phone communication with the past, with added possibility of omnipotent actions. In other terms we can say that God IS A SPIRIT here ("God is a spirit") because He is active but those actions are actually MADE BY NOBODY. That Spirit - who is here - is called the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, the almighty God - who dwells in that distant past - corresponds to the "Father" of the baptismal formula, no one ever saw Him ("the world has not known you")... That above is from our point of view. From GOD'S POINT OF VIEW instead things are different: when the universe started the almighty God had already done ALL HIS WORK. He already decided all his future actions so that the future was now FINALLY SET IN STONE, to be made AUTOMATICALLY TRUE by his power. He had thus made EVERYTHING. He could get rid of his then USELESS power to become like a NORMAL MAN: the Son. "Son" thus means that He DERIVES from God, He is not a Son in the common sense of the word. As a normal man, He also has a relationship with God (but much stronger), He has thus a relationship with a "different Himself". The Son has thus no power at all, but He sits in heaven next to the power of God. His power is thus always "borrowed" from the Father, under his consent. God has thus already lived his "mankind experience" once as the almighty God. He is now living his "mankind experience" a second time as a normal man.
U really complicate things sir
u give way to much information about whatever thoughts you describe to people
make it in fewer words sir
Simplify your information
@@fordtrucks7136 You are right, it's difficult. That theory was developed by me over some years, it is thus to be expected that we are dealing with a non-evident theory, which is more to be "studied" than simply "read". It is difficult because it takes into consideration interactions from the past to the future and viceversa, new concepts not existing until now. The theory demonstrates that the almighty God CANNOT BE HERE now. But the almighty God can indeed talk to us ! Where is He? He talks to us FROM A VERY DISTANT PAST. The theory states who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and the reasons for that. That is different from what stated in the trinity doctrine. For more help in understanding my theory you can check my video ua-cam.com/video/UQKp_lQQ2tQ/v-deo.html (a good part of the theory is there) please be free to ask for clarification in case of problems.
James You need to keep shut because you are missing interpret modernism if you care to know come learn in the first church of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Oneness theology is a BIG JOKE
Jesus is the person of God the Father, John 10:28-33
God is one the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6). Jesus Christ is the Father in the flesh.
How many ONES are there ? a man and women get married-they become ONE. i ask you. 1 as in #1 or ONE as in UNITY,same plans.ONE as in ONE family.
In other words you are right and Dr White,as Scholar is wrong ?????????????????
@@c19commander44 Since there are many scholars and no one can agree perfectly with each other about anything, why would you trust just this one guy as the source of all truth?
Is Jesus the Son of God?
This is blatant heresy. The Father and the Son are two different persons. "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do!" Jesus is talking to himself and asking for forgiveness from himself? Heretical nonsense. Learn history.