Great effort, Trevor! Failures are how we learn. I work on maintaining/repairing our three CNC routers at work. They are all from the 2000's. These things are fiddly and need lots of attention. Lots of experimentation, risk taking and failures but I learn something new every day. Keep up the great content my friend!
Great 2 parts...!! Your time and effort is well worth it...we all viewers learnt quite a lot.... important: how to be patient and do it right... outcomes may not be successful... all videos need not have a happy ending.... thanks
Nice try, I enjoyed watching the video. I’m glad you showed it even though it didn't work out. I do have a few suggestions for the next time you try this. 1. Put the tape "under" the foil to protect the surrounding devices. The tape you used looks like the high temp kind, but it by itself doesn't keep from heating the devices under it. That's what the foil is for. Two sided tape works well for this. 2. A heat plate would be good to have but is not necessary. What you did to heat the PCB before placing the chip should be good enough. 3. Don’t move the chip once you start heating it. You risk smearing the balls and shorting some pins. 4. Instead use temperature indicating paint. Get the paint that indicates a little above the melting point for the balls or the solder that you use. Use this to paint the top of the chip and when it changes color you know the balls are up to the correct temperature and melted. There is no guessing.
These Onkyos are the absolute worst!! I repaired my old one only to have it fail again. I ended up buying a used Marantz AVR and was amazed at the better quality in sound. Toss that junk!
Trevor, it looked like you did everything right, except flood the chip with flux before soldering. By the time you preheated the board the little bit of the flux you applied was gone. When you add enough flux the flux on top may evaporate, but there will always be a puddle bubbling around the edges that can be sucked underneath as need be. I not a pro, but I have seen the pros use a puddle of flux and I have failed until I started to do the same. Next time if you add a glob of flux on the chip and do everything the same, I bet it will work and settle in place considerable faster. Unless the chip is cooked, obviously. Edit: I went back and watched again and I noticed that you moved the chip considerably two times when the solder has started to melt, so you may have bridged a few balls. At the end where you poked it a tiny bit and it sprung back is about as far as you want to move it. Unfortunately, even though it seemed be jumping back into place, one or more pads may have been bridged already. You are a smart guy and meticulous. It won't take you long to figure it out.
Sorry, but anyone could see it wasn't positioned correctly, and then he moved the chip after he'd already applied more than enough heat to do the job. Shoddy work.
@@gordthor5351 I'm pretty much a newbie to reballing too... but I know not to touch/move a chip once you've been applying heat for ten seconds... and I was sincerely willing you all the way to get it right e.g. you were initially taking the job at the right speed, with patience, cleaning up the board nicely etc... but then it's like you become a man possessed, not even checking the alignment of the four corners before applying the heat (which should come from directly above, not wafting it everywhere!) All that hard effort down the pan, man! I felt gutted for you when you went to power on, but I knew the moment you moved that DSP chip that it was game over. Keep at it!
just saw one of these (609) for sale on FB for £20/$25, thought wow what a bargain, bet its a psu/fuse issue..... got it home, 9 screws and top off, saw fuses buried under other boards so 40 more (yes) screws later I have the back off to lift the boards for testing fuses, all work ok so thats when i decide to google around for a service manual and see all these hits for 'no sound' on forums and youtube... wished i'd done a search first lol. I'm sure i read on a forum new chips are blank, and also that newer versions wont work so if last digits are 300 a 400 wont do, but a xxxB300 is best replaced with a xxxD300, what i have learned from the last hour of reading up on these is that they virtually impossible to fix well, if at all. I'm looking at powering up the amp stage direct, and just using it as a 5.1 channel dumb power stage running from a usb sound card. or a boat anchor, weight for a gazebo, something within its capabilities
Thanks for all the info. No I never considered flashing, I'm a newbie at this type of repair and did it mostly to see what's possible. So much to learn
Awesome attempt and patience. Can't fix everything but terrific attempt for being new to this whole mysterious BGA repair process. I personally haven't perfected my processes either. Never forget how lead free solder behaves not to mention different heat requirements. I absolutely hate lead free. Take care and enjoying your vids.
Check the crystal and the signal from the clock. Also. check the DAC. I heard you say in 1st vid they you were going to check the hdmi switching because the ic was hot. perhaps it's triggering a safety. Another thing you could try is freeze spray to see if anything comes back when cold. Also check the relay condition. Some newer units have a function that does a diagnostics readout, if this one has one it might help. One last thing is that these can still make good amps if you can convert them over to analogue. Look for the service manual and see if it lists all the voltages on the various pins, that may also give clues. I would like to know which chip switches the relays and also check that path.
Thanks for your tutorial. learned something about how IC chips are mounted. Have seen the heating of DTS chips and wondered why that works or fails as I remember in "OLD DAZE" chips soldered through the board. Read comment below regarding adding more flux and movement may have cause a blob of solder between connections. Takes some patience and dexterity as well as seeing everything. maybe a second try off camera will solve it? Best of luck! I'm intimidated!!! LOL!
That solder braid, is probably copper coated steel. I use Goot-wick. It's not the cheapest but it works every time. You could try wetting your braid with liquid flux as you use it, that has been known to work fairly well. So sorry it didn't work out, thanks for sharing.
Felicitaciones , aunque no funcionó, se agradece el tiempo y la veracidad de tu trabajo sin editar, creo que los chips son de mala calidad o falsos, me sucedió con otro BGA. Saludos colega.
Looks a little crooked when you started to move it around, with the rounded balls under chip you would think you could feel if it lines up with the holes on board as you move it around before you heat it up.
The thing that concerns me about this is the double sided board, you did your best to protect the components on the upper side but surely some of the heat can get to the other side and disturb solder joints, did you check the under side for issues ?
I read a lot of posts on many forum, and changing the DTS chip could not sufficient. It could be needed to flash also the nvram chip. And flashing this type of chip isn't easy...
The on-screen setup menus appear only on a TV that is connected to the HDMI OUT. If your TV is con- nected to the composite video MONITOR OUT or the COMPONENT VIDEO OUT, use the AV receiver’s display when changing settings
I have a 609 and failed exactly in the same way :) A bit frustrating because one can't tell if it's the bga soldering that failed or if the chip is fake, or perhaps if something else is wrong.
The way it popped and jumped, yep it's toast. He moved the heat away and turned it up so the chip cooled and he came back to center without warming the edges.
May I compliment you on your great taste @rotxuf on your marantz hifi purchase as I am also owner of marantz cd and stereo integrated amplifier pm8007 and cd60 qed and van den hul cables and bowers and wilkins floorstanding loudspeakers.
He had it going for a bit in part 1, the chip got cooked when he tried to reball it, so the inputs aren't the issue. I suspect when he moved the chip, it bridged a couple solder joints causing it to not work
Don't think it is a counterfeit. Looking at the underside at 4:25, the old and new one have no obvious difference. But better look at the print on top too.
The issue with these is that they made it so hard to repair and they don’t manufacture a new chip people could buy. Tons of frustration when repairing these era. Try checking the diagnostics code. If the DSP chip shows ????????? It could still be the chip or the program that access this chip.
Amigo creo que le quitaste todo el estaño, no le degastes nada, creo que eso fue el problema, tienes que haber algo de estaño para que haga contacto, en UA-cam hay bastantes videos de como se soldán esos chip.
Trevor, I am rooting for you, but if you do not get it on the next try I would love to see you bash it to pieces with: a) sledge hammer, or b) Run over it in a 3500 HD pickup truck, or c) blast a huge hole through it with a pump action.
Hello master, Maybe the chip you bought is empty, you may need to put software in it, and unfortunately there is a possibility that many components purchased from China are fake or defective, so take into account customer reviews, and if many people have good reviews, such as original , good quality, I recommend buying it that way. components from original stores, a little expensive, but you will not have any problems Digi-Key Mouser Electronics RS Components i buy high-quality, original components for my own electronic devices from these sellers, I have never had any problems, I definitely recommend them to all my friends.
Great effort, Trevor! Failures are how we learn. I work on maintaining/repairing our three CNC routers at work. They are all from the 2000's. These things are fiddly and need lots of attention. Lots of experimentation, risk taking and failures but I learn something new every day. Keep up the great content my friend!
Great 2 parts...!! Your time and effort is well worth it...we all viewers learnt quite a lot.... important: how to be patient and do it right... outcomes may not be successful... all videos need not have a happy ending.... thanks
Nice try, I enjoyed watching the video. I’m glad you showed it even though it didn't work out. I do have a few suggestions for the next time you try this.
1. Put the tape "under" the foil to protect the surrounding devices. The tape you used looks like the high temp kind, but it by itself doesn't keep from heating the devices under it. That's what the foil is for. Two sided tape works well for this.
2. A heat plate would be good to have but is not necessary. What you did to heat the PCB before placing the chip should be good enough.
3. Don’t move the chip once you start heating it. You risk smearing the balls and shorting some pins.
4. Instead use temperature indicating paint. Get the paint that indicates a little above the melting point for the balls or the solder that you use. Use this to paint the top of the chip and when it changes color you know the balls are up to the correct temperature and melted. There is no guessing.
You gave it your best shot Trevor. Failed BGA components consign huge amounts of modern equipment to landfill. Thanks for the vid.
These Onkyos are the absolute worst!! I repaired my old one only to have it fail again. I ended up buying a used Marantz AVR and was amazed at the better quality in sound. Toss that junk!
The marantz is junk too, you'll soon find out
Trevor, it looked like you did everything right, except flood the chip with flux before soldering. By the time you preheated the board the little bit of the flux you applied was gone. When you add enough flux the flux on top may evaporate, but there will always be a puddle bubbling around the edges that can be sucked underneath as need be. I not a pro, but I have seen the pros use a puddle of flux and I have failed until I started to do the same. Next time if you add a glob of flux on the chip and do everything the same, I bet it will work and settle in place considerable faster. Unless the chip is cooked, obviously.
Edit: I went back and watched again and I noticed that you moved the chip considerably two times when the solder has started to melt, so you may have bridged a few balls. At the end where you poked it a tiny bit and it sprung back is about as far as you want to move it. Unfortunately, even though it seemed be jumping back into place, one or more pads may have been bridged already. You are a smart guy and meticulous. It won't take you long to figure it out.
Sorry, but anyone could see it wasn't positioned correctly, and then he moved the chip after he'd already applied more than enough heat to do the job. Shoddy work.
@@telsutton I'm sure you also do "shoddy work" the first few times you learn something new.
@@gordthor5351 I'm pretty much a newbie to reballing too... but I know not to touch/move a chip once you've been applying heat for ten seconds... and I was sincerely willing you all the way to get it right e.g. you were initially taking the job at the right speed, with patience, cleaning up the board nicely etc... but then it's like you become a man possessed, not even checking the alignment of the four corners before applying the heat (which should come from directly above, not wafting it everywhere!) All that hard effort down the pan, man! I felt gutted for you when you went to power on, but I knew the moment you moved that DSP chip that it was game over. Keep at it!
I've often wondered how those types of pins get soldered to a circuit board. That looks like a nightmare since you can't see the actual connections.
just saw one of these (609) for sale on FB for £20/$25, thought wow what a bargain, bet its a psu/fuse issue.....
got it home, 9 screws and top off, saw fuses buried under other boards so 40 more (yes) screws later I have the back off to lift the boards for testing fuses, all work ok so thats when i decide to google around for a service manual and see all these hits for 'no sound' on forums and youtube...
wished i'd done a search first lol.
I'm sure i read on a forum new chips are blank, and also that newer versions wont work so if last digits are 300 a 400 wont do, but a xxxB300 is best replaced with a xxxD300, what i have learned from the last hour of reading up on these is that they virtually impossible to fix well, if at all.
I'm looking at powering up the amp stage direct, and just using it as a 5.1 channel dumb power stage running from a usb sound card. or a boat anchor, weight for a gazebo, something within its capabilities
Thanks for all the info. No I never considered flashing, I'm a newbie at this type of repair and did it mostly to see what's possible. So much to learn
Awesome attempt and patience. Can't fix everything but terrific attempt for being new to this whole mysterious BGA repair process. I personally haven't perfected my processes either. Never forget how lead free solder behaves not to mention different heat requirements. I absolutely hate lead free. Take care and enjoying your vids.
I was rooting for you, cuz I have 2 “609’s that need new chips or re balled and I was thinking about buying a hot air station. Thanks for the video
Check the crystal and the signal from the clock. Also. check the DAC. I heard you say in 1st vid they you were going to check the hdmi switching because the ic was hot. perhaps it's triggering a safety. Another thing you could try is freeze spray to see if anything comes back when cold. Also check the relay condition. Some newer units have a function that does a diagnostics readout, if this one has one it might help. One last thing is that these can still make good amps if you can convert them over to analogue. Look for the service manual and see if it lists all the voltages on the various pins, that may also give clues. I would like to know which chip switches the relays and also check that path.
Thanks for your tutorial. learned something about how IC chips are mounted. Have seen the heating of DTS chips and wondered why that works or fails as I remember in "OLD DAZE" chips soldered through the board. Read comment below regarding adding more flux and movement may have cause a blob of solder between connections. Takes some patience and dexterity as well as seeing everything. maybe a second try off camera will solve it? Best of luck! I'm intimidated!!! LOL!
That solder braid, is probably copper coated steel. I use Goot-wick. It's not the cheapest but it works every time. You could try wetting your braid with liquid flux as you use it, that has been known to work fairly well. So sorry it didn't work out, thanks for sharing.
Felicitaciones , aunque no funcionó, se agradece el tiempo y la veracidad de tu trabajo sin editar, creo que los chips son de mala calidad o falsos, me sucedió con otro BGA. Saludos colega.
Looks a little crooked when you started to move it around, with the rounded balls under chip you would think you could feel if it lines up with the holes on board as you move it around before you heat it up.
Maybe a factory reset to kill the stored failures? VCR/DVR and on buttons?
The thing that concerns me about this is the double sided board, you did your best to protect the components on the upper side but surely some of the heat can get to the other side and disturb solder joints, did you check the under side for issues ?
I read a lot of posts on many forum, and changing the DTS chip could not sufficient. It could be needed to flash also the nvram chip. And flashing this type of chip isn't easy...
The on-screen setup menus appear only on a TV that is connected to the HDMI OUT. If your TV is con- nected to the composite video MONITOR OUT or the COMPONENT VIDEO OUT, use the AV receiver’s display when changing settings
is there a diagnostics mode?
Where do you buy the hdmi/dts chips
I have a 609 and failed exactly in the same way :) A bit frustrating because one can't tell if it's the bga soldering that failed or if the chip is fake, or perhaps if something else is wrong.
12:39 Is this the moment the CHIP burned out?
The way it popped and jumped, yep it's toast. He moved the heat away and turned it up so the chip cooled and he came back to center without warming the edges.
Maybe wire up a little incandescent bulb and position it sitting on the bad chip to keep it hot.
I think mine might need a replacement chip as well, where would you purchase one? It doesn't seem to be straightforward online buy
The bga chip's ball should be rubbed with some flux too.
May I compliment you on your great taste @rotxuf on your marantz hifi purchase as I am also owner of marantz cd and stereo integrated amplifier pm8007 and cd60 qed and van den hul cables and bowers and wilkins floorstanding loudspeakers.
Dam, what a same :-(
Are you 100% that the chip had the original fault?
Just seen this did you assign an input to a out put using the set up
He had it going for a bit in part 1, the chip got cooked when he tried to reball it, so the inputs aren't the issue. I suspect when he moved the chip, it bridged a couple solder joints causing it to not work
i have 3 of these onkyo recevers and all have a htmi screen program menu to program them
Don't think it is a counterfeit. Looking at the underside at 4:25, the old and new one have no obvious difference. But better look at the print on top too.
My onkyo nr-626 sound card is not working how can i fix it
Hi there I have a onyko that has no sound
The issue with these is that they made it so hard to repair and they don’t manufacture a new chip people could buy. Tons of frustration when repairing these era. Try checking the diagnostics code. If the DSP chip shows ????????? It could still be the chip or the program that access this chip.
dumpster !
good try but sorry to say you moved the chip out of alignment.
Amigo creo que le quitaste todo el estaño, no le degastes nada, creo que eso fue el problema, tienes que haber algo de estaño para que haga contacto, en UA-cam hay bastantes videos de como se soldán esos chip.
Maybe you're right, I will try it next time
Trevor, I am rooting for you, but if you do not get it on the next try I would love to see you bash it to pieces with: a) sledge hammer, or b) Run over it in a 3500 HD pickup truck, or c) blast a huge hole through it with a pump action.
Great ideas! This one's already been scrapped but next time fersure
Were r u from. Need address
STOP SPAMMING MY DAMN ACCOUNT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, come again
un-click the bell dimwit
Hello master,
Maybe the chip you bought is empty, you may need to put software in it, and unfortunately there is a possibility that many components purchased from China are fake or defective, so take into account customer reviews, and if many people have good reviews, such as original , good quality, I recommend buying it that way. components from original stores, a little expensive, but you will not have any problems
Digi-Key
Mouser Electronics
RS Components
i buy high-quality, original components for my own electronic devices from these sellers, I have never had any problems, I definitely recommend them to all my friends.