Cultish: Looking Into YWAM (Youth With A Mission) - Part 3
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Join us for chapter 2 of our long awaited series as we continue to look into YWAM ( Youth With A Mission). In this chapter, we speak with Derry who was an active YWAM student on several bases and is currently on active YWAM staff. In part 1 we talk extensively about the how YWAM is organized & whether or not the accusation of it being a cult holds any merit. We hope the first part of this conversation will be a catalyst for further discussion about this organization.
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I can understand everything that this guy is saying and he constructed this interview with clarity and understanding. I just left my campus in the PNW a month 1/2 ago after being there for 4 years. I actually wasn't spiritually abused and can't speak on behalf of the students that have walked through the campus I went to. I came into YWAM as a 25 year old after being in Bible college for 2 and 1/2 years. A little mature in scripture or so I thought. I grew up in a non denominational church and we never talked about hearing the voice of God through objects. It wasn't until I was on staff for a year and immersed in the culture when I started wrestling. The issue I see is a teaching of theology that is "emotional, experiential, feelings, and super hyper spiritual." I wrestled with the teachings for two years when I watched "American Gospel" and truly know God told me "You don't know my word." Thats when I started digging into scripture and I couldn't find the core things YWAM is teaching, "Hearing the voice of God" and the way "Holy Spirit" is taught. I am not saying YWAM is a cult but I see a very immature understanding of scripture and then students who graduate, step into staffing schools (discipling and having spiritual authority over others) and then be put into higher leadership roles. Then we are sending these people into the nations to bring the Gospel. I wouldn't say I am reformed but I'm also not Charismatic. There are major swings where we discount one side or the other which is not biblical because the Bible says, that true worshippers walk in "Spirit and Truth." If you would like to know more about the marketing, I can speak into that. I worked in the communications department for two years.
I understand what you are saying! I grew up in a Baptist church, and was attended one that I would say is more like a non denominational when I got involved with YWAM 5 years ago. I am in my 60’s and widowed, and really believed in the ministry they are doing. It is a mercy ministry that has volunteers come weekly that package soup mix that is shipped to countries in need. In the summer we have teenagers who come and process and dry peaches that we send out as well. Wonderful ministry, and we do have others that have come with other beliefs than the charismatic very NAR leaning of the leadership. I do believe that God speaks to us, but the idea of asking him to give you a word to give to someone on demand is completely not Biblical. I really that I not internalizing the messages, but since leave realized I was. The whole idea that God wants us to be healthy, happy, and whole is not truth. I realized I had developed a very transactional relationship with God. At that point I realized I had some deconstructing to do. I agree, where I was, I wouldn’t consider a cult, but a healthy environment? Absolutely not!
Going into YWAM in the fall, certainly going in with a greater discernment after this series and to stand of the Word despite all else. Thank you for your humility in this.
Good luck😬 just a tip, international marriages are tricky and something that happens in ywam a lot.
@@ronniedanger1 Haha I can’t say I’m looking for one
@@connerjonez nor was I.
Dont
University of the Nations is not accredited. The two leaders of the base I just left did not attend a local church. What he is describing was not an example of the base I was on staff! The kitchen manner was abusive and toxic, and I was pretty much told I had to available to her when ever she wanted, at the expense of my physical and emotional health.
Around 21:00 the YWAM leader says that he shares "words from God" with asterisks and that if he has made a mistake that he'll own up to it because he's not a prophet.. At the YWAM base I attended in Hawaii we were all told we had the ability to prophesy and to be prophets today. Which raised a lot of red flags and distrust. When I questioned such teachings my concerns were dismissed. This was only one occurrence that alarmed me amongst many other non-biblical practices. I wasn't miserable because the lectures and outreach were necessarily difficult. I was miserable because I didn't learn hardly anything, "spiritual" practices and experiences were sought after but hardly any deep theological or scriptural study took place.
I think the problems with YWAM are actually pretty easy to address. The issues are more theological than organizational. People trying to hear the voice of God, etc leads to typical charismania. Add the charismania to manipulative youth camp culture, where you isolate hormonal emotional kids from their families and make them cry, and call it a spiritual experience. It’s nothing necessarily unique to YWAM. All this youth focused stuff is such a modern invention.
13:18 No, not every Base has a Board… This guy saw 20 bases that maybe had, but it is no set thing in YWAM. There are also bases where one person has all the power and there is no real accountability to anyone within YWAM. YWAM is like a franchise without real accountability and quality assurance, that’s why so many abuses happen
Thank you for looking into this ministry as I know several people who are in the organization. In one case the person was ok with abortion and said I shouldn’t have a political leaning towards Republicans.
It sounds like you are dismissing them asa fellow Christian for their views, just as they seem to be condemning you for your political position. It seems the normal,, and all can be guilty of it. yet we need to love one another, that command did not say love the Christians I agree with. That bit is too easy
Totally agree. You can’t use experience before scripture!
But weren’t those in scripture being moved by experiences themselves? What scriptures did they use to frame what was happening to them?
@Building up Faith Agree
@Kelii The writers of the Bible were inspired by God to write the Scriptures. And, just to be clear, there were only a handful of people that were being led by the Holy Spirit to write the Scriptures.
Also, the New Testament writers did use the Old Testament Scriptures and were instructed in the Old Testament - Paul is a great example. Jesus learned, obeyed and used the Old Testament as well.
It is very clearly written in Revelation: "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." (Revelation 22:18-19)
Also, something interesting to think about: except for Samuel (in one instance), the rest of the writers of the Bible were NEVER unsure whether God was speaking or not. They KNEW that it was God who spoke to them.
Today, people who claim to hear from God are "unsure" and need te "make sure" that they heard from God. When God speaks, it's never unclear...
Human experience differ a lot and are always changing. Consider that God never changes and that you can rely on Him and His Word for sure guidance.
@@danelleventer6094 thanks for replying here! Great response.
@@danelleventer6094 The verse you quoted in Revelation is not talking about the Bible, but the book of Revelation itself. So how were the authors inspired? Did they get possessed by the Holy Spirit to write as if a ghostwriter for God? And about them knowing God spoke to them… how do they know that? God stopped speaking 2000 years ago? Think about it.
What he’s saying, sounds great. BUT it’s not actually truth and those things are not happening. Because if they were then, why haven’t they been held accountable for many things that have been done wrong?
No, not every Base has a Board… This guy saw 20 bases that maybe had, but it is no set thing in YWAM. There are also bases where one person has all the power and there is no real accountability to anyone within YWAM. YWAM is like a franchise without any accountability and quality assurance, that’s why so many abuses happen
Ywam needs some serious reform or shut down immediately. I was spiritually and emotionally abused on my DTS in 2012 at YWAM London.
This was a needed and helpful episode. It added balance.
It’s cultish like IHOPKC. I was a part of YWAM for 6 years. Did DTS and SOE and staff. They have the same format and systems as IHOPKC and bethel. Sadly, after following the ihopkc story I was able to see clearly it’s the same crap!
I went to YWAM in 2006 and my walk with the Lord was dramatically impacted by this organization, not in a good way. It caused me a lot of trauma and has been a hard road to get to a place where I have the same relationship with the Lord as I did before going to YWAM. I developed really bad digestive issues that still plague me to this day. There were a lot of creepy things done such as being in a big group doing worship and having a bunch of people surround you and you were asked, "What is God speaking to you right now?" When you did not have a good answer you were looked down upon. I had a lot of crazy spiritual attacks come against me on all levels. I had a really bad ear infection and was told, "God said to me that you will be healed from your ear infection and He is going to tell you how you got your ear infection and you will never get another one again". Then the following days I would have all these people that would come up to me and ask, "What did God tell you?" Not to mention all the crazy speaking in tongues experiences I had. Of course, not a single person who spoke in tongues had an interpreter, but then again what church that supports speaking in tongues ever does have an interpreter. The books you are supposed to read there about "hearing God's voice" were just downright weird. I could say a lot about my experience there. Not to mention my shower being infested with black mold and rotting away, people constantly begging for money to pay for their next payment so they could go on their mission trip, horribly bad quality of food being served, massively high prices they charged, being crammed in a small room with 8 guys sleeping in that room, a huge earthquake I experienced while there, and "leadership" that gave horrible advice. This was all at the Kona base in Hawaii which is supposed to be the "top" place to go. Even the guy speaking on this video from YWAM creeps me out. If Billy Graham supports YWAM then there is your answer, considering he was a freemason and good friends with the Bush and Clinton family. Not a good reference for showing YWAM is not a cult. Franklin Graham said "Jesus would want you to take the vaccine". So much more could be said by me about these topics...
How about you go to the Bible and see what it says about tongues and decide from there.
45 yrs ago I asked for the GIFT, why would God give me a snake when I asked for a gift?
Interpretations are for speaking tongues in public, something I almost never do as I pray in
tongues to edify myself allowing the spirit to pray intercessory prayers for me. I imagine He's
praying for things I would never have the courage to admit to pray for myself. In the end it's
not me praying at all, it's the Holy Ghost praying through me. Before I preach, I pray in tongues.
When I lay on hands, I pray in tongues quietly. When I don't know what to pray, I pray in tongues.
I'm not big on YWAM, there's a base right down the road, lot of good people, strange organization.
@@2drsdan I have read my Bible about this. You should go read yours. Can you show me an example of tongues being spoken in a public setting where there were at least 2 interpreters? I've seen tongues spoken many times in public, and never once seen this take place. At YWAM tongues was being spoken all over...at mass gatherings...and not a single person had even ONE interpreter. The Bible clearly says if there is not an interpreter to STAY SILENT. So if you want to "speak in tongues" in your private time, sure do what you want, but everytime I've seen tongues spoken (including a wacky church I went to recently) it's spoken publicly with NO interpreter... therefore it is NOT Biblical and is likely demonic babble.
@@JoeDaddyNV You cannot ERASE tongues from Christianity just because you think it's wacky when, as you point out, it's merely misused. Tongue's is a thing so be careful what you call evil when it's ordained by God through His word. AND why didn't you take a stand against its misuse at YWAM in the meeting when you had the chance?
@2drsdan How about you read again what I wrote. I have a problem with tongues being spoken in public, because I have never seen it Biblically represented. I never once said it should be erased. The wacky church I was referring to had the pastor speaking in tongues all throughout the sermon and at the end of the sermon "slaying in the spirit" about 40 people. Maybe to you that's just normal. So let's put another thing into context. As stated I did my DTS in 2006 when I was 21 and a young Christian, but in your eyes I should have defied the majority of people around me and rebuked them for something I had no knowledge about other than how it made me feel being around it. If I could go back now and do it over then I would definitely make different stance, though even at the time I made a stance by leaving Kona a month before going on my mission trip due to how off the whole thing felt. I've stated nothing about tongues that is not in the Bible, nor did I condemn you if you want to silently speak tongues or speak it while by yourself. Even though there is debate as to what speaking in tongues actually is. "If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them KEEP SILENT in church and speak to himself and to God" 1 Corinthians 14:27-28
Again, as I said and which you took personal offense to, show me a church that supports speaking in tongues that follows this BIBLICAL model of how it should be done.
I'm so sorry for your experience! I am in a church where there is interpretation when something is declared in tongues. I think the guy (Ryan?) from Remnant Radio was interviewed on this channel talking about his church's emphasis on judging and weighing prophecy also. these churches do exist. may they multiply in these end times and may you be healed of these wounds in Jesus name, and nourish the body of Christ with your gift of discernment!
As far as YWAM staff being encouraged to be in the local church, that was definitely not my experience. I went to one of the larger bases in the world and it was almost never encouraged from the front either in big group meetings or staff meetings. I was on that particular base for 7 years. In fact I had to put in quite a lot of effort to go to a local church on Sundays and do anything with a local church beyond a sunday morning service because the YWAM schedule was so demanding of your time. Even the weekends you had shared responsibilities helping with meals, dishes, cleaning and the expectation was that you were there for meals to eat together. The reputation of YWAM within churches of that city were mixed but I know a lot of people didn't know how to relate to a YWAMer and vice versa because life on a weekly basis looked so different for a person working a 9-5 job living in the city compared to a person in ywam where their time was not really their own much of the week.
SAME!
Just like with all denominations/Christian/religious groups, they’re run by humans and unfortunately humans fall short many times. I think Loren Cunningham had a true Mission and vision from God. YWAM has been a voice for God in areas in the world where God‘s voice was not represented. They’re doing Gods work, and I’m sure that when they have issues with leadership abusing their power they deal with it Biblically. The only sticking point I see is the differences in styles of worship and views of theology. That just comes down to one’s interpretation of the Scriptures. Some people will see that as error and other people will see it as theological differences. The charismatic movement has had a lot of harmful teaching, but it also had a lot of really good teaching. Just like every Christian denomination they’re working out their faith and will no doubt miss the mark from time to time.
I was raised in YWAM and spent probably 10 years of my life different bases around the world and I’ve seen it all!! I wouldn’t call it a cult, however the lack of discernment and Biblical teaching in many places raises some huge red flags. Just read Loren Cunningham’s book and you will see prophecies that did not happen…doesn’t that make some false prophets by definition? Also his endorsement for Bethel Church and Benny Hinn says a lot…
I did a DTS in Makapala on the big island in 1995. It was a lot of hyper spiritual overload and a lot of nonsense around experiences. The “Plumb Line” was total and completed abuse and humiliation. Yes there are many who love the Lord and are earnest believers. One of the things I find wrong with believing God will talk to you is the constant confusion that is around it. I once believed in much of this type of false teaching and years later all I know is the Scriptures are trustworthy and reliable.
Young and impressionable people's good will being taken advantage.
Why did he sat the ACCREDITED university of the nations at 27:33? Why was it relevant for him to say ACCREDITED, especially when it is not?
Derry (speaking on behalf of YWAM) deserves great praise!
He handles this interview with passion and tremendous self-control. It is a rare person who can be grilled about their faith, possible historic issues and what ex-members claim - and still show compassion and calm.
I myself am a missionary kid who has studied Apologetics for decades and I can see why especially the Reformed watchdog groups might have difficulty with YWAM. Many Christian groups and denominations thrive on their clear hierarchy and inflexible extra-Biblical practices. But YWAM, like nearly all missionary ministries knows that we must put aside our own pride, our own human legalism to truly serve others in humility.
Missionaries do leave all behind, their comfortable culture, their traditions, foods and even forms of Church worship - to go and preach the Good News to a different people. Good missionaries do not try to supplant other cultures with their own traditions, but to let God's Word transform each respective people. Culture changes when it begins to match God's expectations, but there is no single "right" Christian society which must be modeled everywhere.
Many missionaries operate de-centralized and have so since the Great Commission. This appears suspicious to those holding to systems of Church authority.
YWAM may also appear suspicious because of their association with more Pentecostal doctrine - a problem mostly for Reformed Theology that imagines an end to the manifestations of the HS after the NT times.
My research into YWAM suggests it to have elements similar to Campus Crusade for Christ, Torchbearers, Francis Schaeffer's L'Abri and many such international ministries.
What are the YWAM values?
If every base is controlled by a board that is subject to its own "good or bad theology" rulings, whose members may or may not be pastors.....how can that possibly a representation of biblical mirroring in outreach? Where in scripture does it say "the board of people, some who may not be believers are the head of the church"...it doesn't.
What if the board itself is compromised with bad theology and can rule out anyone and everyone who's actually preaching the Gospel? Where is their supreme standard or governing body? Sounds like a recipe for all manner of "doctrines of demons" to be take root and grow out of control.
When anyone claiming to be a true, repentant, born again Christian tells another Christian "you can't know unless you're on the inside"....what Jesus are you preaching? How can the "experience" you're having be so drastically different from the average Christian we wouldn't recognize the theology and belief system you're advertising?
So many questions...so little concrete answers from Derry here.
⚡️Someone with bad theology or hearsay comes and teaches for a week,
it happens ALL the time...
that’s the problem!!!!
⚡️What prophet heard from God and spoke with an asterisk???? That in itself, will not stand up to scripture.
⚡️Ywam knows spiritual abuse happens and tries to make things right AFTER it happens.
Anything bad, under the umbrella of YWAM, is excused because they are DOING good. Hmmmm, what must I DO to be saved?
And Cultish just let this all slide???
Very unbiblical interview!
Can you not discern on the fly?
Danya
Thank you. Very true.
YES🎉
If you have to understand by being on the inside, then is it truly biblical??? NO
Or if you’re saying that, then how is not a cult? Someone please explain this to me. This coming from someone who was in ywam for 3 years.
So YWAM is seeker friendly- based on the culture- making a gospel fit the ultra rather than bringing the gospel as is...?
does somebody think that God has called leading somebody to be part of YWAM at least in the past or is God using YWAM even though with all this issues?
YWAM kona is supposed to be the main base. I think the focus there is a good start to know what ywam is about.
I actually think the opposite. I think a lot of young people are drawn to YWAM Kona for DTS simply because it's in Hawaii, and the appeal of living in Hawaii for 6 months on someone else's $. I think part of the brokenness of YWAM Kona especially is young people going there for all the wrong reasons. Not having a heart for missions, but a heart for self.
Ecumenical “unity”. Just like NAR.
I have 3 friends who are OK with God- even 2/3 don't believe in him... because they went to YWAM in highschool... they are dead... and they hate the gospel I give them...
Has anyone dealt with YWAM's doctrines on Hearing the Voice of God? This seems to be the unargued philosophical bias in this discussion
I’ve personally experienced this indoctrination.
A cult is one that essentially questions the authority of scripture and subverts it with their own. In the case of Catholicism the church replaces the scriptures authority. In case of Calvinism, the writings of John Calvin are used to interpret the scriptures. In the case of Mormonism, the writings of Joseph Smith are used to interpret the scriptures. Etc. Etc.
Former ywamer here . My experience was positive and really turned me on fire for the Lord. I think every ywam base is different they are very much independent churches apart from each other so if your interested in ywam research the base first. I keep hearing bad things about staff abuse at ywam kona.
I’d rather not say words that require an asterisk, we are people of truth, Paul goes to great pains to describe speaking the gospel clearly, I.e. no asterisk required
I think what he means is that when you’re feeling a word from the Lord for another person, it should be aligned with scripture but at the same time could possibly not be accurate for that specific person. Because we are imperfect humans and we don’t always hear from God perfectly. For example, you could think you’re hearing a word of knowledge for someone about their brother but when you share the word with them, you find out they don’t even have a brother. It always requires humbleness and knowing that we won’t always get it right, but there’s grace. I always try to check my heart and make sure what I’m feeling from the Lord aligns with scripture before speaking it out.
@@cassandracampbell7991 " Because we are imperfect humans and we don’t always hear from God perfectly."
Can you give us an example, please, of a time in the Bible when God didn't community a message to someone in a way that they could understand what he was saying? I don't necessarily mean that they understand all aspects of the prophetic message, for example Old Testament prophets received messianic prophecies but may not have understood what they meant or how they were to be fulfilled; rather, that God was so unclear in giving the message that the person receiving the message didn't understand what God was saying.
This in important, because your statement puts into question just how trustworthy scripture is. Are you prepared to say that, for example, Isaiah did not hear God well a few times because he was an "imperfect human" and so sometimes "didn't always hear from God perfectly"? What about Moses, could he have misunderstood some of the laws God gave to him? Or Daniel, maybe there were five or six beasts in his vision, or maybe God really said 80 weeks but Daniel didn't hear perfectly and so he wrote down 70?
I think one thing I wish they would have done was with the YWAM staff interviewed - ask more question (s.) I think the Culitsh hosts should have asked how being a volunteer staff with YWAM looks different than being a student in a DTS program or another training school. Having had personal experience being a staff at “ a Working Base” you see a stark contrast. It’s not just you’re no longer a student with free time to do what you want outside classes. I do appreciate though a YWAM staff was interviewed in this video and a another one, as oppose to former students. I think Cultish should have interviewed a YWAM staff outside of Kona - that base gets a lot of attention already especially with people thinking it’s the world HQ when in reality YWAM is severely decentralized. I would confirm though Derry’s information isn’t accurate to YWAM Redding , at least it’s still around. It recently folded sometime after 2021- I think and a few of their staff went to Denver either earlier this year or sometime late last year.
Naturally I would have wanted to see more covered in these videos especially but yea the videos so far only just scratch the surface. Although I can affirm YWAM has done a lot of good, you can’t simply ignore the stories of people who have come out of situations with various YWAM bases and view them as isolated incidents or disgruntled individuals or groups. They should really talk about the dangers of its decentralized nature and lack of accountability for leadership.
The leader of that base could very easily be a cult leader. He is not a good person! He went to Denver, and ended up leaving with most of the staff. I could see that coming a mile away!
Yea I heard rumors about that. Not surprised. The Redding one was very difficult to be around especially as an outsider.
From listening to this, it sounds like YWAM is basically a denomination. Does YWAM consider itself a church or a para church ministry? It seems that they are trying to function as the local church.
They consider themselves, interdenominational
They are a missions organization (or movement) focused on training young people (mostly) to learn how to share the gospel with strangers.
"Right?"
Perhaps this is a verbal tick, maybe pronounced under such an interview situation.
It does indicate some insecurity or uncomfortableness with what he's saying or the situation he is in to talk frankly about YWAM. His body language, body ticks and fidgeting lines up ; he is hyper stressed. Perhaps not a good representation then of the true YWAM.
I dont get a sense of peace in his heart about YWAM, his answers or his theological leanings as he is looking for reassurance from his interviewers (apologia studios.) It might just be stress and not doubt: so I hope he spills his heart to God regularly and those he knows he can trust with his personal doubts. Bless him
He is saying EO is Christian brethren 🙄 ah no sorry that's like saying Catholics are brothers
They actually do think this about Catholics. They accept catholic students and don't try to tell them the gospel but accept them as Christians.
Don't get a good vibe with this guy!! So, they keep all of the abuses internal?? Hmmmmm.....🤔 Idk, seems like he's over explaining things! Usually an indicator of lying. Sounds a little suspect🤷♀️🙄
Derry definitely doesn't have a smooth easy to listen to "radio voice"... that nasally pitch voice is hard to listen to for more than an hour. And, he deflects, is inaccurate, and embellishes too much in too many points.
Love you guys. I actually work with YWAM in Japan, so interested to see your perspective on YWAM as a whole.
Comparing what these young adults experienced in 5 months of what’s essentially a Christian summer camp, to what soldiers experience when coming home from finishing their service, is perhaps the most asinine comparison I’ve ever heard in my life. And an utter insult to Veterans.
Then I would assume you haven’t experienced indoctrination such as this which is more damaging than the sufferings of earthly matters as it involves our very souls.
YWAM Rocks! Guys from the reform tradition are going to struggle because their bubble defines everything else.
It would not br correct to describe Ywam as a cult ss each base is run with autonomy. Thats not the case with cults thst have one charismatic leader however under each of those autonamous bases you can and do have many charismatic leader who run their little empires as cults. If you want an example you could look into a certain Western Australian branch. Won't say which one here. Your complaints are coming in from people who have neen abused on such bases. In my experience everything goes swimingly until you disagree with the "leadership". Thus young guy sounds as if he may be coming from a healthy base. You cant csll Ywam a cult but some bases are for sure.
"you just don't understand unless you've been on the inside"
This quote hits hard because that's how I feel about the church I used to attend. It's a very large church, I would be tempted to say that it's possibly the largest protestant church but very low-key. It has different names in different countries but in the UK it's called the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (UCKG for short) with the Brazilian bishop named Edir Macedo. If you ever run out of organisations to talk about this one would be very interesting because it gets very close to being a cult in my opinion but I tend to give it the benefit of the doubt though a lot of ex members would call it a cult.
Basically very heavy on salvation and yet at the same time also very prosperity preaching which creates a weird environment which at times seems like a perfect balance and other times appears very manipulative. The most heavy part of what makes the church interesting to people like me is that they do a lot of "exorcism" and speak to demons when doing so. Which is done with good intentions to help the person that is being delivered but it creates a weird spin on doctrine and theology which many churches don't have because very few churches do deliverance services, let alone do it on a weekly basis.