Cultish: Looking Into YWAM (Youth With A Mission) - Part 2
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- Опубліковано 21 бер 2022
- Join us in part 2 as we wrap up our conversation with Haley & Alex who are 2 former students of YWAM(Youth With A Mission).
We continue expand upon many of the problematic elements of YWAM that many believe to be a catalyst for spiritual abuse. How do we address these complex issues and where should YWAM go from here?
Tune in to find out !
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Can you all highlight the International Church of Christ next?
In many cases, parents send their kids to public school, attend a church with extremely shallow and soft theology, and then try to slap a bandaid like YWAM to fix their kid
Yup! People need to bring their kids home and take responsibility over their souls. 🙏🏽
53:36 "What should the organization do?"
Repenting of its false teachings would be a start...
Can I request that you all research Freemasonry? Would love to know more about them.
Amen...a very influential and very dangerous spiritual organization. Sadly, many evangelicals refuse to talk about them.
Probably the best video that shows what Freemasons are all about. ua-cam.com/video/7Eeo-82Eac8/v-deo.html
Dr Walter Martin has an interesting interview with a Mason on the John Ankerberg show that is available on UA-cam.
I second this request! There seems to be a lot of “Christians” coming in defense of them in our forums here. Highly concerning. :-/
To those of you who are bothered by Cultish covering YWAM because it’s not a cult: they never said it was a cult. They covered it because people who called it a cult asked them to. They said they can’t call YWAM a cult. They discussed some things that happen at different DTSs that are cultish. Calm down.
To Cultish: thank you so much for covering this. My dad has been really encouraging me to go for at least a year now and I’ve been hesitant. This helped me to understand more about it. I would really like to see you discuss it with leaders of it or even just people who went to a different DTS so we could get a more well-rounded picture. A number of people with more involvement in YWAM expressed desire to talk with you about it in the comments section of your last video on the topic.
To all: God bless you.
I'm not hating the players involved, but hating the YWAM game... So, no offense is meant to anyone directly, but this Cultish podcast has to go so much more deeper than this. A YWAM DTS student is only entry-level six-month experience into YWAM. It's hardly even broaching the tip of the iceberg. I hope that Cultish will go much deeper, further explore, and investigate YWAM than this. No offence is meant, but the past two episodes are hardly going to "move the needle." When unfortunately there is my friends a lot more to explore, expose, and to be concerned about with Youth With A Mission (YWAM). I do commend these two DTS students for their courage and bravery to share their experience, and mad respect them and congratulate them for doing so!
I’ve been thinking the same. It’s a good couple of episodes so far, but quite shallow at the same time. Shallow in the literal sense, meaning no offense by it. 🙏🏽♥️
I’m in agreement too, man the surface was scratched and I wish Cultish would have pressed further with this, having watched all 4 videos, just don’t feel like as much was hit upon. I know there are some people out there they could interview who may be nursing a grudge and maybe not be good choices ( I’m in a YWAM group on facebook and saw people like that) but for as many people there are out there with grudges, there has to be people who were deeper in and could give a truthful account of what YWAM be really be like behind the scenes. Cultish please look into this topic again, people need to know.
To see what binds all the YWAM bases together, look at YWAM's Foundational Values. A few years ago, Darlene Cunningham, Loren's wife, wrote a book about those values. And look into how those values are implemented and practice; for example, when they talk about "intercession", look at what they call their "steps of intercession".
One more thing: look into the Seven Mountains and the Seven Mountains Mandate. The story is that the idea of the Seven Mountains started with both Loren Cunningham and Bill Bright of Campus Crusade.
43:40 You’ve seen 100% of people need to “spiritually detox” when leaving YWAM?!
That culture shock is often observed in those who go to any camp setting or mission trip. This victim mentality that is being used to describe it is not accurate IMHO. I’ve known a number of people who participated in YWAM through the years and they did not deconstruct their faith, need spiritual detox, or feel like a victim. They felt stronger in their faith and Bible knowledge. They have been strong believers and active in different ministries throughout many years.
agreed - I know many people who have gone through YWAM that have great experiences, and have been strengthened and invigorated in their faith. I'm sure that there are some issues with specific YWAM bases, since there are so many - I have heard of at least one that had some spiritual abuse. but as for the organization as a whole - at least based on those that I know who have gone through it, it has been spiritually beneficial.
Exactly anybody that goes on an intense time on the mission field is going to have a tricky transition. YWAM is certainly far from perfect but they get many things right, remember these are guys coming from a reform background and have a hard time with anything that’s not reformed.
It is very interesting to hear this conversation. I did my time With YWAM in Orlando and in Chicago. I really loved my time there. When the question was asked about communicating with our family. For us it was very open. We were allowed our cell phones and I kept communication with my family. I did not know exactly how to talk about some of the stuff I learned. I did my best though.
This was very well done.
I was spiritually and emotionally abused in 2012 at YWAM.
I got a strong foundation for my Christian faith in YWAM! For my outreach ALL of us were given a refund because they didn’t use all the money!!!!
YWAM is a self-perpetuating organization that keeps itself going by having members continually take their unending list of classes, for which you pay tuition, as well as rent to the base for housing you while you are there. that is how the bases survive. They really do not do much to involve themselves in local communities, even though everyone is supposed to be a missionary. Ministry is basically an after-thought, done by students. It is also very unfriendly to certain communities of people, full of self-righteous evangelicals who do not accept others as they are. Actively refuse to do so.
I was a part of YWAM Honolulu, HI. You had to complete an application with your testimony along with why you feel God has called you to the ministry. Then your application is reviewed and prayed over before you were invited to join the organization. No parent could have just enrolled a student and then forced them to attend. The DTS I was involved in was considered interdenominational and we had all religious backgrounds represented in our training. It was completely structured and allowed the believer to search the word. We had leadership that we reported to and if we had any issues we had a direct leader and then there was leadership above that individual and another leader above that person. They were two leaders on base at all times. Scripture was used as our main focus.
This!
@apologia_studios and the cultish podcast. I really like like what you guys are doing, I really see what God is doing in your ministry, but as a fellow brother in Christ I have to speak up about this... There is exposing cults and then there is seeing cults where there aren't any. I have friends that were a part of YWAM. They couldn't just join willy-nilly. Their parents didn't just send them away. I'm sorry, but not every ministry is a cult. Yes some ministries have weird practices for example Bethel and I do not agree with their theology 100%, but this goes beyond what God calls us to do and delves into the territory of pettiness in theology to the n-th degree! And why YWAM? I think this is going to far! I am saying this with love and humility, please don't let this just be a one sided thing. If we hold to the biblical worldview we are supposed to also listen to the other side, before ruling judgement. But I haven't seen anything of the sort coming from the cultish podcast! I am voicing my displeasure and stating that I am not a fan of what direction this is taking and this ia the stop im getting off at. It was a fun ride and I hope you all the best. I hope you prioritize the love of God and neighbors before theology. God bless!
I have heard good things about the hawaii base. However, I definitely have seen a coercive push to send kids to YWAM, like it’s borderline salvific to them. Very emotionally driven theology, and it’s almost like separating kids from their families far from home and making them cry makes some feel like they were emotionally manipulated later.
I know of several people who would not recommend YWAM Honolulu at all in good conscience to anyone. The problem with YWAM is that things on a YWAM Base can change and in some cases shift quickly between great, good, mediocre, bad leadership at a Base.
I worked in the office that accepted the applications. Protocol was to accept anyone who didn’t have a felony. Whether the leaders of the school actually prayed over the applications, I couldn’t say because I wasn’t there. BUT I never told anyone they weren’t accepted because leaders always accepted applicants and I was in there for over a year. They won’t willingly deny anyone to come, they want everyone to do it.
When Loren left the AOG he fell back on his university teachings and the pattern YWAM is based on is described in the fictitious book by Sir Francis Bacon named The New Atlantis
Joy Dawsons teaching on hearing Gods voice is nothing more than witchcraft
There is a big thing about the whole individual support raising. It's a very western way of fundraising and I have seen countless ywamers in developing countries struggle with extreme poverty for missions and God while the core leaders in ywam goes to golf and cruise on their summer vacations. All trying to measure up to Lauren's testimonies on trusting God and Him providing great amounts of money so miraculously. Such a sad reality. I have seen staff members living less then a dollar per day while serving ywam with free labor, raising their children in trash dumps, living in debt and their only hope was the outreach money coming from those white young western kids. Sometimes it felt like ywam exist for this white kids mission experience and money making business. The more you know about it, the darker it gets. A ton of Asian, African, Latinos faces in photos are being used to make their base websites look good without the local people's consent from outreach photos... how imperialistically these 18 year olds minister to the locals in those mission field, cuz they don't have ANY solid understanding on mission and church history... Somebody has to make a documentary like hillsong. A lot will come out..
This ⬆️
My parents had wanted me to go to YWAM because it sounded great. Teaching young people to share the Gospel was an incredible thing on paper. I was struggling with anxiety at the time. I was terrified of sharing rooms with strangers for some reason, and upon finding out that I was going to have shared room with many other people I panicked and said I can't do it. Hearing this, I wasn't sure if it would've been a good idea to go there anyway even if I didn't have anxiety.
As a mom myself, I would say it sounds like you need to go experience a group to overcome your fears. This is a normal part of childhood and social development. Perhaps not YWAM, but I would encourage you to not feel paralyzed by your fears with this. You can do it just as well as any other young lady can. You CAN overcome the fear of the group! But… you won’t ever begin to grow past it, until you push yourself to the point of discomfort. Discomfort is the point where we grow, and change. We have to work on being ok with discomfort, especially so we may serve God well. So practice! Give it a go! And you will improve, I promise. ♥️🙏🏽♥️
@E. White ^^^
Coming from being in ywam for about 3 years, it probably would have triggered your anxiety and made it worse. You probably made the right choice to not go. However, yes once you step out of your comfort zone (tiny steps) then that’s how you can overcome your fears. 🙂 I believe the Lord had a good plan for your life and I hope you take hold of what the Lord has for you!
Leaving any intense mission field is going to be difficult and a hard transition not just YWAM this is the history of Missions. Ask any Missionologist or Missionary.
Agree, there is general 'not like me' culture shock, but also these trips target communities under pressure, so participants may have their first encounter with eg 3rd World poverty, or be with people who their parents would never approve of, in the tough end of communities. Or even living in community with the intensity of that and contrast with home. Good briefing and debriefing from such trips is vital
I would like to know if there is one base without NAR doctrine.
The staff guy in the other episode said the are do not affirm NAR. I was hopeful. It would be helpful to know which bases are clearly not NAR. Are there YWAMers out there who would point us towards those bases?
@@pamfreitag7916 I didn't have the impression that he understood the issues that were presented in some of the questions. It was a lot of smooth talk. The base I know is 100 % in line with NAR doctrine, no matter what they say officially.
When u listen to these videos you hear tons of narnarbinks!
@@jaquirox6579 mesa heal yousa! yousa well now. yousa just need claim-sa?
I'm kinda haveing trouble understanding exactly what NAR doctrine is defined as. It's a word thrown around so often nowadays that it's not easy to know what exactly people mean when they say it. What is the NAR stuff you would like to see a base without? Just saying NAR isn't a very helpful term anymore. There are a TON of practices in these groups of people that I consider extremely harmful and abusive. But NAR doesn't really define it.
The argument that every base is different is a bad argument. They all have a basis they have to follow from the main base, then from that they create their own culture. AND if every base is different then that could breed bad theology and bad practices. Which is probably apart of the problem and what I’ve seen/experienced.
I was in YWAM in Germany and now, years later, I am shocked of their false teachings, reading scripture out of context and do fake healings during the theoretical sessions in school.
I was at ywam kona and yes I totally agree it’s all theological manipulation
@@sergiogonzalez4951 so sad.
What were the theological manipulations you experienced?
Ywam is a problem from the start.
Cunningham is who you should be focusing on.
Danya
I would have appreciated more discussion and evidence presented about their progressive theology.
Hi there!
I attended the YWAM base in Hawaii. The hardest part about the evidence you're looking for which almost "saves" the credibility of the organization, is that very rarely is anything documented or recorded. So a lot of discussion is hearsay. I can tell you how I was taught by a leader who was younger than me about Automatic Writing which is demonic actually, but i have no evidence or recording of being taught this. Also, because most are naive in their faith and good theology when first attending these bases such as myself, i willingly practiced this before realizing it was wrong and also way before i could really think to document it.
If you'd like to know more, I have more stories, but just like these guys in here, most everyone had such a different experience whether they agree with sound theology now or not.
Have a great day!
They preach a false gospel based on Moral Government which goes against Scripture. It was invented by a government man in 1500s named Hugo Grotious who wasn't a church man. He was a philosopher.
Frozen Reeses peanut butter cups!
Surprise you guys did this. YWAM has helped get the gospel out and helped blessed so many people over the years, of course there’s going to be problems, God continue to use imperfect organisations and churches to increase his kingdom.
Focus on real cults not groups you don’t agree with!
The title of Lorens book is the same words satan used to Eve in the garden of Eden
I was involved with YWAM Orlando in 2019 it was terrible. That’s all I will say.
You referred to 'subjective' views and when there is a tie, the authority figure's view wins. I agree that this is an issue, but all churches and denominations /strands face this. We are all subject to the interpretation of faith, the Gospel, view of God, that we have been exposed to, and of all the things we encounter that cause us to question and either confirm or adapt our understanding.
Are there particularly bad, toxic theologies - absolutely. However can any of dare to proclaim we have the 'right' theology? I say no, and a key red flag for me is those who claim to have the 'one and only true gospel '.
I get that you are from a reform /Calvinists pov, and appreciate that you are asking important questions about accountability and leadership, however it also feels that you are saying that any pentecostal,, arminian, or generally' not your theology ' is false.. You may not intend this but as a fellow Christian this is what I hear.
Should Cultish do an episode... "Cultish: Looking in to Apologia Studios (Cultish)"?
Also, First question was "Why would there be disorder"? Ha!
If you don't know the answer to this question...?
BTW...I love you guy's and what you do! Just frustrated...God uses all kinds and in many different situations. YWAM is living, an organism, just like Apologia and the church in general. Don't put limits on God. These guests are sharing and expressing their growth in Christ...their experiences could have been anywhere in the church, including Apologia. We're all sinners and are in the process of refinement...until we walk the streets of gold.
Hopefully this will be looked at as iron sharpening iron vs. tearing down the church from within
Where is chapter 1?
ua-cam.com/video/AHcZM7qmXb4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/play/RDCMUCK9RJwC7Er16-Y8dvIQ-3tw.html&playnext=1
Everything about this is just vibing like a cult. But like a Cult Lite. Lol
So even if they do have a good experience, can you honestly say that ywam is a good and biblical program? The theology is closer to the NAR and it's founded on dominionism which is horrendous. I was hoping someone would talk about that. There's no are being good messengers for Christ with so Navy mature young people who do not know who God is yet are put in a position to teach the scriptures that they sideline to their mysticism.
18:00 It was not their peers teaching them. There are speakers who come and teach the DTS. They are teaches and experienced missionaries and pastors that do the lessons. Sure, you are in a class of peers. It’s that way in any school.
So, actually one of my leaders (that i mentioned in your previous comment) was younger than me and taught me Automatic Writing.. that is demonic. Then another leader of mine (who was also younger than me); attended a 6 month DTS, and became a leader right after. After left YWAM, he then left the organization announcing that he was an atheist and homosexual all while deconstructing christianity. Needless to say, my base (the biggest base) had no qualifications a leader had to follow in order to be a leader. In a sense, my peers taught me and I was not being discipled properly.
@@haleyheard6968 I could say a lot of the same things within the base I came from.
That was one of my main frustrations and concerns while being there. I saw multiple people get to staff DTS’s that were bisexual and they lead a lot of the flock astray. I saw lots of students from under their leadership come out as gay. And other bad things from staff members getting drunk as well.
The higher leadership still let them be staff on DTS’s. AND they were very forceful in having you do things, if you didn’t do them there was always punishment.
Spurgeon did not have to go outside the church to learn how to teach, preach, and understand who God was. He was simply discipled by his parents and the pastor of his church. Not even a seminary degree! Tithing is the only money you need to spend! If there is no historical confession of faith on a church’s website, don’t waste your time! We aren’t smart enough to make a better one.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
You sound brainwashed.
Christian literally means “little Christ”. It’s a derogatory term that we wear with honor.
That's incorrect- Christian, from the Greek, means "Christ one" as in "one from Christ". If it ever did come in that form, we'd see it in the two words "mikros Christos" (small Christ). However, its "Chritianous" in the genitive case indicating an origin, an identity that we have in Christ
@@kerrickchavarria8935 homie went full Greek on us! 😂♥️🙏🏽
As a quick interjection on the subject of deconstruction of faith: I don’t think it’s always necessarily an anger at God, but coming into an understanding that Christianity, in the west especially, as an institution, is incredibly flawed and misled. Not every Christian is guilty of all the sins of the church to the wider world, but living in a blissful ignorance and ignoring the very real damage that church has done to the world and ostracizing people struggling with dealing with that knowledge is a huge problem. It’s turning a blind eye and not effectively challenging the real consequences of the pain the church (overall) has actually caused. YWAM doesn’t acknowledge this or help the problem in any way. Indoctrination and colonization are the main play of that organization. I have yet to be convinced otherwise.
Edit: I don’t believe it’s a problem with God but a problem with the people who claim to speak and act for Him. I still believe God is sovereign but these leaders and organizations are not actually following Him. On and individual level, that’s a different story, but the ones who call the shots are far from Him - the fruit they sow shows that.
The whole organization proves that dangerous spirits arrive when you believe you need MORE than Scripture to hear from the Lord!
Not sure I agree with the "if the vision/spiritual high is from God then there would be no consequences" concept. It is not only a fradulence or imperfection in the experience that proves it is false or not from the Lord. Anything that is encountered in our environment or some brokenness inside of us could twist the results which is what I think happens frequently. I think we should be quick to test experiences against the Word, the Spirit, and the Church, but we should not assume that the experience was false simply because there were some negative experiences resulting from it.
I would agree, but swing the other way in conclusion. Something can end positively but still be sourced from the false, or evil. Plenty of witch craft people can attest to getting “positive outcomes”.
@@jaquirox6579 I agree. I would say that the metric we should measure things by shouldn't just be "with/without consequences" but ultimately alignment with scripture, the Spirit, and the Church at large. Plenty of things that God ordained ended up with consequences through our eyes (ie. wilderness exile of Israel, crucifixion of Christ, imprisonment of apostles) yet served God's greater plan.
…and if you can’t find a church to disciple you, just catechize yourself! My favorite is the Heidelberg. Most apps have all of them. Just make sure it’s not Roman Catholic!
@Victoria Koerber What apps have catechism?!!! I’ve never heard of an app having that content!! Please share sis! ♥️🙏🏽
I do appreciate this episode however I find myself agreeing with some points and disagreeing with others. I will state I did a DTS with YWAM in 2017 and now work in youth ministry. They talk in this video about a "top down" view from Loren Cunningham. YWAM has overarching values that are pre-established biblical principles that are implemented at every base, however, every base is different as an individual is leading it. This can be a downfall, absolutely, but so it can be in any church. This is different from those making this video who belong to a denomination and probably a network of like-minded churches. The problem is, in their view, most other denominations, or churches have it wrong, and so they do not view YWAM as another network of churches that can function in the same way.
YWAM does not claim that you need MORE than scripture to hear from God, they teach general and specific revelation. YWAM can be isolated. Some bases make more of an effort to be in the community doing weekly outreach, connected with churches, and locals, but not all bases value this the same as it sounds according to these two young people in the video. Isolation for a time in life is not bad - allowing our total purpose to be growing closer to God, growing in spiritual disciplines, growing as a community, and learning Biblical truths is amazing. We had to abstain from alcohol, from pursuing a dating relationship, and also technology time and it was incredibly beneficial.
I would say the organization is not a cult at all. Unfortunately there may be some bases that call themselves YWAM, but have "gone off the rails." These are not okay, and should be addressed. In the early church as churches were planted and structures were established, there were many leaders who came along and tried to de-rail the early church with false teaching. So called "super-apostles," so this is not new, it must be addressed, and there must be accountability - which I feel was absolutely in place during my DTS.
Leadership was not "come and go" during my DTS. They ask for hefty commitments and usually have more senior leaders in place. The standard that they lived was high and respectable, living with Biblical values and accountability.
In some ways, YWAM is doing much more for a younger generation than many churches and denominations in America. They speak of many "missions trips," many of these trips costing thousands of dollars to go and build a church and feel good about it rather than empowering the nationals to do the work. This is poor mysiology, yet widely practiced by many North Americans which often leads to white saviourism. YWAM is about church planting, empowering young people, and reaching the nations - unfortunately many churches, especially seen with extreme Calvinism fail to live out the great commission in their own churches and around the world. Christianity should not be for "entertainment," it should be real, attractive, healing, and life-giving.
If you took the time to read this, thank you! Thanks to the brothers and sister who took the time to make this video!
Perhaps grabbing YWAM folks from different locations would have been more rounded? 🤔🙏🏽
thank you for this!
This was much more responsibly done than the Church of Christ episode. Consideration was given to differences from YWAM post to post, and yet total ignorance of there being different, biblically-sound churches, not of a denominational bent, with Church of Christ in their name.
YWAM actually is a para church organization, potentially cultlike, often depending on their local leadership is what I got from this. Buyer beware, since it costs a lot of fundraising to send a young person there. There is likely spiritual growth from it, one way or another, but some may come back with struggles from the experience.
What are these people talking about. am i still watching cultish. Throughout my checkered past I've been to rehabs, Christin discipleship programs, boy school, jail. they are unique organizations with unique goals, they run strict methods, You know that going into it, they are not cults. This ywam sound like that. It sounds intensive, I think that's the point, thats why people go. This sounds like a joke trying to make it into a cult. 🤷♂️ I'm gonna go watch the William branham episodes again, that's a cult lol
Extremely disappointed in the YWAM series. As a guy who knows a little about them in run-ins in Ukraine, Cultish should not have given them so much grace. I had the feeling, watching all 3 shows that this was an apologetic FOR YWAM, and that Cultish is pro-carasmatic. This is not the only time i've had this opinion.
Cultish should have wiped the floor with their ecumenism. The rep for YWAM said on Cultish's show that they work with Orthodox groups! The Orthodox religion is a works salvation religion!
Cultish should have wiped the floor with the rep when he talked about the board of the YWAMs. This is a parachurch organization with no local church accountability.
And worst of all Cultish let them juke out of every accusation by letting them say that YWAM is a large organization and there are many different divisions, and what is true for one, may not be true for another.
Please be more bold in your defense of the truth. These videos seemed more like an apologetic for YWAM than a critique of it.
1000% I was a member and its 1000% a cult.
Stop asking me. Tell me. Tell me about it. I wasn't there, and I want to know. It's okay if some females want to state things interrogatively, not okay for males to do. Please tell me. Nothing could change my love for any of you.