Cultish: Looking Into YWAM (Youth With A Mission) - Part 4
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- Опубліковано 4 кві 2022
- Join us for the 2nd part of our series on YWAM ( Youth With A Mission) as continue to talk with Derry who spent time as a student on several bases and is currently on Active YWAM staff. In part 2, we have a great & in depth discussion on spiritual abuse and its relation to YWAM. We hope that this conversation reflects the wisdom is hearing both sides (Proverbs 18:17) and will be a catalyst for further conversation.
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My oldest daughter went to YWAM a few years ago. Her DTS was in the US mostly working with an organization that held meetings at high schools and colleges from what I understand. She went back to that organization later and her younger sister went through that training. From what I understand, it is similar or equal to YWAM training. I was thrilled that my girls wanted to go spend time serving the Lord. However, I maybe assumed more than I should have about the teaching and experience that would be offered.
Because of my girls being associated with this type of ministry, I was very curious to see what the conversations would reveal. I cautiously listened to both sides. I tried to understand both perspectives (student and staff).
The one major comment I have is from this 4th episode. Toward the end Derry was asked about how YWAM could take responsibility for some of the issues. When he responded with the reasoning that there is spiritual abuse in christianity in general and that YWAM was not worse than the church in general, I got frustrated. There seemed to be no hope offered and no responsibility taken. Maybe I missed something, but I don't thing so. I had a few other reservations, but those are things I can talk to my girls about personally.
We are told to make disciples, not to get people into leadership positions quickly so a ministry can grow. At what point are people stamping Jesus' name on their personal desires?
Thank you for having these conversations! They are so important!
Derry has the ywam goggles on!! He’s so far bought into it and has had a great experience, probably because he’s never questioned anything and said yes to everything the leaders want!
You need someone who’s experienced both the bad and the good or more interviews from multiple different people. It’s almost like he’s selling you, just as they all do in the beginning.
This decentralized model is either foolish ignorance or a clever and wicked way to shirk responsibility.
I would have to agree with that train of thought, having personal experience being with YWAM in Northern CA for 15 months. While the idea of being decentralized for me sounded reasonable ( for the seek of doing ministry in context to where you are and how you feel lead to,) wow was it a jarring experience seeing the darker side to that when it came to leadership. Although Derry is saying there was layers of accountability, they don’t really kick in if at all. In California alone you could look at base to base and get some wildly different base cultures where leaders can go uncontested with their words or actions. If their boards were to find out, a lot of the directors for bases wear multiple hats, you could have a man being director of a Northern California base and they are on the board of directors of a SoCal one.
I think you guys should interview people who have been in YWAM longer than 5 years. Currently in YWAM or out. in order to actually get a fuller perspective. People that who have been in leadership and a part schools. I was in YWAM for 11 years with 3 different bases- 1 year at one (US), 7 years at another (US) and 3 years at another (Australia). People need a fuller perspective good and bad.
Asking the guy in the cult to explain why it's not a cult😅 geez he's only 25. I was in ywam for 5 years at that point and had just gotten married within the world of ywam. You definitely cannot see clearly what is happening when you're caught up with it. It would be interesting to do a followup with this guy in a decade haha
Why did you guy’s softball so many questions to him?? He was really elusive in just not directly answering the questions at hand. And you guys really handed him some politically well worded prompts. It’s seems quite bias for both of these to be occurring in the interview. And when a man can’t directly answer a question… I don’t trust his word.
That was a good point "Just because there are abuses of the practice doesnt mean we should not do it at all"
For an organization based on hearing the voice of God, why are leaders slipping through the cracks when they misrepresent themselves and cause abuse? Should the other leaders not be using spiritual discernment and hearing the voice of God regarding the wisdom of whether that person should lead or not? Especially if you're absolutely aware of (and "validating") cases of abuse?
*proactively*... ask God FIRST about the people, rather than just cleaning up after they've committed abuse.
The same can be said for many many church organizations. Even church leaders miss it sometimes.
The problem with this is every YWAM base is different and not all bases are created equal. So you have one young person talking about his very short term experience with YWAM.
I’m grateful for you three coming together and discussing this respectfully and straightforwardly as brothers in Christ.
Love it-that is breathtaking . all the best,)
In Perth, Western Australia, ive been engaged in street evangelism for years and have run into brothers in ywam and my fellow evangelists telling me accounts as well as civilians.
Many ywamers who are street evangelising in Perth show a very shallow understanding of the gospel and have often left the person evangelised to with a distortion of Christianity. Charismatic emphasis regarding miracles n experiences etc to the neglect of Christ’s death and resurrection, repentance and faith etc.
Same with many US bases. I often shared a gospel that wasn’t the true gospel during my time as a student. A “Jesus loves you” message with some healing prayer before leaving. Absolutely horrid looking back. Hyper-charismatic influences seem to be a huge pattern for most YWAM folks in my lives, including many of my friends with YWAM backgrounds
@@WontonDisciple Thanks for sharing brother. It's really sad and reflective of our poverty of theological teaching. I've been there and thought it was normal and am still learning. The sufficiency of the word and the biblical gospel to be upheld and preached over recent historic anthropocentric (man centered) methods. Unfortunately, that's what many of us see as normal in our culture and assume that's the Biblical pattern when it most certainly is not. The last couple of hundred years of church history (with many good things occurring, yes) have been so destructive in the churches witness and evangelism.
The Perth base has problematic reviews from former students so that’s not surprising.
They made us read Loren Cunningham book, “Is That You God?” as part of our curriculum.
It was mandatory. Lol
This was also a major concern for me seeing it was assigned during week 1 of dts which was also hearing the voice of God week. I just wished we started w the Bible. Also our week 2 we had a huge confession circle that was scheduled into our week and lasted until 1am. Lol. Major social pressure and not enough openness to ask questions that esp concern leaders reasonings for things or theology in my opinion and experience from completing dts in 2018. Took a long while to deconstruct and come back into having faith completely bc I felt alone and confused.
I didn’t read it and nothing happened. They didn’t really force anyone to read it in my experience at ywam Kona
I’m not seeing that as a problem… biblically speaking.
It was required for my curriculum, also. Very concerning
Dion my boy! Lol I never read it all but when I started to read it, I was like this not right. The Bible speaks clearly about who he is, we used Jesus like he was genie jar every day. On outreach and on the base and no scripture until page like 70 something clearly some theological manipulation, I left bc realistically it was a utopia through and through lol saw many red flags 🚩 I was a staff lead a team young kids leading young kids doesn’t work hyper spiritual
Since it's brought up several times, I wish you'd asked him more about the "steps of intercession", and the biblical support for these steps. Had you seen a listing of these "steps of intercession" before the interview?
For example, one step is "Deal aggressively with the enemy", which is the nowadays common practice of binding Satan, rebuking demons, and such activities. What would be his biblical support for such practices?
Man it’s difficult hearing Derry fielding all of these questions and I can’t help but agree with some of the comments where I just don’t think he really got into questions as specifically as he could- especially with taking about how YWAM could improve and having checks and balances as an example. It did feel vague and he didn’t directly answer some questions. I feel concerned he couldn’t speak into times of Spiritual abuse. In some ways great, but still makes me speculate. I can’t help but wonder if he had a staff or student dealing with abuse, would he ultimately do the right thing and confront the responsible parties? Regardless of it’s a org he loves or if it cost him his volunteer role? I think too even Derry speaking into how different bases are run and having experienced how a base I worked at could be radically different from the hundreds of others… just wow. Sadly I think if anything you can’t do an investigative video on YWAM…. It has to be individual videos all YWAMs. To me the scary thing many parts of YWAM just don’t represent each other or the whole clearly if that is possible. They can all act pretty independent of one another from what I observed and things especially post Pandemic fall through the cracks even more.
Cultish if anything I think you have other speak into the “ YWAM(s)” experience Derry only represented a small part of and would love to hear from a former YWAM volunteer who has years with them who didn’t have a good experience. I know there are people willing out there to speak if they haven’t already come forward. People who aren’t out there just with an axe to grind but ones who want to give a honest and balanced account of what YWAM can really be like.
Hey guys! I love your videos! I would be curious what your guys take is on seventh day Adventist! Would you guys say that they are a cult because I know lots of them and they seem really genuine but I do know that they have some strange interpretations of the Bible!
Never had an opinion about YWAM one way or another. But back during the young adults group days at my church. A lot of the ladies would refer to YWAM as "Young Women After Men". Other than that I thought they built churches in Mexico or something.
For a ministry that primarily trains youth, there is simply not enough done to protect those who are vulnerable and spiritually immature. The tactic of chewing the meat and spitting out the bones in discerning right from wrong in doctrine and teaching should not be left to youth without protection from leadership. They always said take everything back to Scripture but this was more of a check the box of minimum required orthodoxy. In my opinion one of the most destructive practices that is common to all ywam bases is trying to hear the voice of God outside of Scripture. That is a very hard teaching and practice to detox from in my experience. Good used ywam in my life but i would highly resist sending my kids there
He’s so vague. You need to somehow get an interview with Loren Cunningham, Tom Halas, or some of the older leaders in ywam and grill them with serious questions.
Why couldn’t he directly answer a single question? He just defined the term y’all we’re asking him about. This is so frustrating to me as someone who has gone through a DTS. All of his answers were not confident and based on assumptions and feelings. This was really difficult to listen to, straight bull shit from Derry. During my DTS in Madison Wisconsin I witnessed a student confess sexually abusing children she babysat back home. Absolutely no action was taken by leadership. The most they did was encourage her to write a letter and apologize. This is so damaging. Don’t even get me started on the “conference” we went to in Florida. Forcing us to stand up, make hand motions, repeat the words of Lauren Cunningham, and “take on his vision.” I was told I could be a little g god while at YWAM. The leadership was terrible and could never answer any of my questions. Beyond disappointed in this organization.
As someone who was a full time staff with YWAM the last 4 years, I’m so sorry to hear about your experience and what you witnessed. Everything you shared is 100% not okay and should’ve been addressed and delt with. One thing I will say is that because YWAM is broad structured and de-centralized, this means that each base you go to can be very different. My experience in my DTS and everything after was honestly so good and I have nothing but good things to say about the YWAM base I worked with and it’s leaders. And on a random note, we had a very similar situation to the one you shared about SA.. there was a guy in my DTS who had confessed to something very similar. He was met with love and grace however his confession was immediately reported and he was promptly sent home. I think the main issue with YWAM is the lack of consistency and responsibility taken when leaders fail and/or lead from an unhealthy place.. causing harm on those they are leading. I don’t know exactly what the answer is to fix the problem but I definitely agree that something needs to change.
Sounded like he answered the questions to me
I feel like it’s extremely contradicting to basically say it’s okay if most fall away because in my eyes there are other bases who don’t. That makes absolutely no sense to say that. Idk how this guy is trying to justify that everything said happens and that doesn’t throw a red flag in his face. Not to mention the number of heretics that go on in most bases. But I understand why it’s hard to challenge someone who is brainwashed himself because he is still young and truly thinks nothing weird is going on. I hope the Lord reveals the truth in some way or another. But you guys just planted a seed which is all we can do! 👍🏻
I think Cultish podcast dropped the ball and fumbled on the coverage of YWAM.
@@mattmercer7607 definitely agree. I feel like they barely grazed the tip of the iceberg on the mountain of issues that ywam so obviously has. I was excited to see a reformed conversation about it but I was kind of disappointed sadly
@@Lizzy_Garfield Me too. It was disappointing. There is ample evidence and testimonies of areas worth addressing on this podcast. Abuse being one of them. I spent time in YWAM, and know people in YWAM who have already been walking around social media like they won a court case or something and have been thinking it the opportune time to take a victory lap. I am withholding judgment, and hoping there will in fact be more Cultish Chapters in the future because this podcast did little to move the needle, go deep, gain traction. Maybe I am a fool for thinking still not to judge a book by its cover or on the basis of just chapter one and two which were underwhelming when as you said a lot more lays below the water line and the tip of the iceberg.
Derry the YWAM staff person has been interacting on social media with some people I know, and been really irritating, unkind to them representing YWAM, speaking into spiritual abuse -- so they have actually had to block him. I think Cultish could have vetted a better staff person from YWAM to be interviewed when this sort of thing happens. Some people have in fact suffered real abuse, trauma, and don't need someone like Derry being unkind and adding insult to their injury.
Ah, Cultish continues to toss softballs at a pretty face.
Disappointment.
Danya
It’s funny that he’s saying why these “not ready” or “bad” leaders get put into place but the Bible gives a clear outline of what a good leader is to be. So if we have the Bible and ywam says they are submitted to scripture, why are they not following what scripture says???
Even someone that you think are the best possible leader, and they seem to fit the biblical mold, can be some thing else all together when put into practice. People are fallible. When you put too much emphasis on a human being, and try to make them something that they’re not or when that human being tries to be something that they’re not that is when trouble ensues.
Ok...another point this guy brings up....i knew what he was going to say before he said it. He is asked how much emphases is put on being lead by the voice of God and I just knew he was going to use the example of hearing God's voice about buying a property. YWAM is OBSESSED with purchasing properties. The leadership spends a ton of time talking about it and gets both staff and students to give their own money towards it, spend their time fundraising for it, and getting staff and students to ask their own family and friends to ask their connections for money. By the time I was getting ready to leave the base I was at for good, that project had consumed the leadership. They needed well over a million dollars to construct a modern building from scratch. Who's name was that property signed in? Who ultimately inherites that property? I'm not sure. The base leaders or Loren Cunningham I suppose. It's outrageous and I think people are used to better the lives of the leaders to the point where its a spiritual pyramid scheme. Of course the base leaders and leadership team got the penthouse rooms of the new building 😅🤣 so wild.
From my perspective, I still do not encourage the muddiness in the ministry. Some doctrines are just not healthy.
My inlaws have fully embraced the voice inside your head.
But you ask them and they've never really heard any voice. It's just a "feeling.'
Mhmm..
I do encourage meditation on the word of God which informs decision making in the liberty we have been given in Christ and a trust in His sovereignty over all things.
I have a friend of mine who owns a Christian radio station, who used to regularly promote YWAM. In private, he used to mock and make fun of how crazy and weird YWAM was, but publicly he would promote it because YWAM paid some of the bills. It was interesting though, that while he would publicly promote YWAM there wasn't personally a chance in Hades that he would allow his own son or daughters to attend YWAM even for a simple entry-level 5-Month DTS. I often found this interesting of how YWAM wasn't good enough they knew for their own children but hey why not promote it to some other kids parents or church to get involved with?? I am disappointed by the overall Cultish podcast's coverage to this point in time on YWAM. I think in much the same way as my friend who owns the Christian radio station, Cultish podcast probably would strike a much different tone and vocal pitch if it were their own son or daughter in YWAM with allegation of abuse, manipulation, and control. I find in large part, the Cultish podcast to be tone deaf in these episodes even while I am struggling just two chapters into this podcast coverage on YWAM to not judge this book by it's cover. Because the truth is, there is a lot of abuse, manipulation, control in YWAM. I just don't think some people personally care so much, because it didn't happen to them, and it didn't happen to their own sister, brother, mother, father, son or daughter sort of like my friend selling YWAM commercials and radio air time, making money, to market a product [they] don't even believe in as a good opportunity for their own son or daughter. And that's the big rub for me and the abuse that's in YWAM.
Sorry 1 person can’t speak for ALL of YWAM. He can only say this is how we do it or what I have seen!
Just remember who the enemy is. Put on the armor.
YWAM has come off looking better to me than they did before this series. I don’t see that anything of substance is being brought forth that warrants, what appears to be a witch hunt. It looks bad.
Cultish needs to use some discernment and maybe do some homework before wasting time on these weak accusations… especially w a group you can’t pin down because they are independently ran! Comeon man!!
Just because Cultish struck out and didn't do a great job (and furthermore they've never actually been in YWAM by the way) doesn't mean there isn't great content, factual abuse to investigate, testimonies, or people in large numbers who have experienced abuse. There are a couple of YWAM groups about Spiritual Abuse in YWAM on social media with hundreds and thousands of members. I personally experienced abuse, manipulation, and control all while in YWAM myself. Instead, rather than blow things off, maybe Cultish should have done a better job interviewing and covering the subject. Cultish used soft gloves and pitching easy questions the size of beach ball throughout the entire podcast. Derry, at around the 30 minute mark even says YWAM University of the Nations is "accredited" global training, which is outrageously false and a lie, and Cultish doesn't even fact-check Derry on that major blunder at all. For Derry to say YWAM is accredited, after serving 5 years on staff, tells me that he is either being deceptive or he doesn't even know what he is talking about. This interview in particular was a total joke.
@@mattmercer7607 yeah, well said; I think you’re exactly right. I think a different approach would’ve yielded better results. I’ll still be back for more Cultish, but I think this one needed to dig a bit deeper.
@@chrisbrower9532 Right from the start, Cultish said the burden of proof is upon the accuser(s)... but never gave people with testimonies of abuse the chance to speak, lay out their credible proofs, evidence, bring accusation to YWAM. That YWAM Abuse Hotline is a total joke. I already personally know one individual who called it, and beyond the long wait, the person on the other line didn't even know where or what to do with the information (allegation of abuse experienced). YWAM has no clue how to handle or what to do with the problems of abuse. The truth is, YWAM has no substantive system or formal method of accountability.
@@mattmercer7607 they definitely don’t! We weren’t even told about it at our base and I was apart of several different bases for three years… personally (it might be a stretch) but they don’t mention it for a reason probably..
At the last base I was at, there was a mass exodus because of the type of control, manipulation, and abuse that was happening.
I came from one of the biggest bases in Australia, so in my opinion this doesn’t only happen to small bases.
Ok... it's true what this guy is saying that every base is different depending on the style of leadership and their preferences. But that is absolutely not true in my experience around the topic of intercession. I was at 1 base in particular for 7 years and intercession formally happened minimum 2 times a week. This is my hilarious yet sad experience: You are thrown into a random group of other people on the base, usually a group between 5 to 10 people and you meet for at least 1 hour. More than half of that time was spent going through the steps on intercession. Literally quite mechanically. One person would lead the time and they would say, "Ok, now we're going to wait on God to convict our hearts" and any number of things would come up. Someone would confess stealing their housemates toothpaste all the way up to, someone masturbated or something the night before.😅 and then you'd pray away satanic influence, and silence our own voices. And then everyone would sit in silence for a long time and awkwardly the person leading the time would open their eyes and ask if anyone needs more time. Then 1 by 1 you'd go around the circle and people would share what came to mind as far as what we should pray about. It was usually quite hilarious because it was so random. Someone gets a bible verse. Someone gets a colour. Someone ultimately just expands on the thing they are clearly passionate about in general, someone will get a picture of a person in green but not know their name😅 and then the person leading would have to somehow figure out how to tie all that together and come up with an order of how to go about praying for this bizarre list of things. And often times, it would be near the end of the alloted time for this in general so the leader would suggest everyone praying all at once so everyone is passionately shouting at the same time. And other times you'll end up being part of a prophetic act as the prayer and you feel like you're doing some sort of improv skit more than praying. This would happen at least twice a week and there would be about 30 groups of people doing this scattered all over the property inside and outside. There is no way you'd be able to opt out of this time. Maybe once. But if you skipped out, your leader would ask why you didnt come. If you suggested you'd rather not be a part of that stuff, good chance you'd be asked to leave the base. Like I said that's just my experience so maybe some bases werent as militant and strange..but I was there over 7 years and that was business as usual the whole time. I still kick myseld for staying there so long and going along with it. I was young and impressionable though, and didn't know what I was going to do with my life.
Ughh your story sounds so familiar. I have a family member currently trying to get on staff at a base, and when she applied, the group who approved her application said they’d been praying for a staff member to come, and they saw a vision of the color purple, and my family member’s middle name is Violet…so they said it was clear she was the candidate for them.
When I heard this story I was inwardly struggling but don’t know how to caution her :(
@@RianneBustamante-pc2tt well I guess you have 2 options. Share your thoughts with them, but explain really clearly why you feel uneasy. Or 2, just let them go. Chances are they aren't going to listen to your concerns as a valid argument and to be perfectly honest they may come to the conclusion your dpubts are from Satan. Its hard to watch people get sucked into the ywam machine but they have such unique and exhilarating experiences on dts that they want to go back to join staff. Its hard to convince them otherwise. But i mean, you can still share how you feel. If your relationship is tight maybe they'll listen.
Derry answering these questions, means nothing when he’s addressing the spiritual abuse because he’s so far down the line.
He has not answered a single questions with clarity. Typical YWAM talk to keep saying words but no logical explanation nor solid arguments. Questions are weak since you let him pass hard issues. I feel like I wasted time listening to this. There are thousands of people that would talk like this in YWAM and they are never wrong. a big red flag
He’s dodging questions and not answering directly
I didn’t get that from his answers. I felt like he was pretty straightforward and answering the questions.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
When a well packaged web of lies has been sold gradually through time to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled.
No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.
This truth will free you to seek for the Living God in the Spirit and to truly KNOW GOD instead of just knowing ABOUT HIM.
The GOSPEL is NOT written with ink, nor on tablets of stone, but on our hearts by the Spirit of the Living God.
The gentiles who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, then they are a law unto themselves.
Under the New Covenant we are to be led by the Holy Spirit, not the bible.
I was searching for truth when Jesus told me, "The bible is an idol" which completely changed my direction. After that I only sought for Him in the Spirit and He has taught me many things on life's journey.
The most important of which is that He died so we could be regenerated by the Holy Spirit into sons and daughters of God.
The gospel is simple, repent from living after the flesh, ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit and then be led and controlled by Him through the Spirit.
The bible is only history and has absolutely no authority from God to control us, the outward law was under the old covenant. Jesus died to redeem us from the curse of the written law because we were unable to keep it.
Have a great journey through life with the Living Christ guiding you.
When Jesus words are written down and Satan is using them, then the bible becomes the word of Satan.
Constantine (1st) beast compiled 50 bibles, legalized Christianity and set up the false prophet (pope).
King James (2nd) beast, born 6/1566, 6th of Scotland, authorized a bible in 1611 that now has 66 books to control people with, an image of God's word they make to speak (the bible says).
By having faith in the bible which has been made into an idol, they break the new covenant of having faith in the Living Christ through the Holy Spirit, who is the true word of God.
THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Ask Jesus -Yeshua for the Holy Spirit.
Link To Blog Site Book:
Book 1 THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
bibleismarkofbeast.blogspot.co...
BOOK 2 THE BIBLE IS AN IDOL
bibleismarkofbeast.blogspot.co...
UA-cam Channel:
ua-cam.com/users/BIBLEisMARKofBEASTvideos
**
What? How can you make claims about the mark of the beast when it is derived from the Bible you call the mark of the beast. I highly recommend reading Deuteronomy chapter 6 for understanding the mark on the hand and the head.
“Heaven and earth will pass away by My words will not pass away”
This decentralized model is either foolish ignorance or a clever and wicked way to shirk responsibility.
I trained under YWAM to establish and pioneer a YWAM Base. YWAM utilizes decentralization to keep the multi-celled structure alive, while limiting and mitigating the damage to the Base or individuals who at worst are disposable. And at best can minimize litigations to the broader system. YWAM keep decentralization purposely vague. I find it ridiculous that YWAM supposedly has a hotline to call in abuse, as Derry has said for former staff and students to report abuse. I spent over tens of thousands of dollars helping YWAM pioneer a Base, and if I have problems I or others are to call a YWAM hotline to speak with a telemarketer? Ridiculous. There must be a lot more abuse in people don't even know about when there is a YWAM abuse hotline with telemarketers to take people's calls and concerns.