Enjoy learning all about TEAM MENTALITY in this first episode of our Tactical Instructions Analysis series. And make sure to check Max's channel for more evidence based videos.
This proves that Very Attacking, Attacking mentalities are OP hence why most OP tactics have attacking mentality. There should be way more defensive risk then it currently is when using those settings.
I love this type of content. I hope you delve into opposition instructions at some point (eg. what kind of an effect does the "tackle hard" instruction have on player fitness for both sets of players).
Opposition instructions are on my list of things to test. It might take a while though because I need to get through all the tactical instructions first!
I don't think the "tackle hard" really means that the players would do the hard tacklings. Iirc, "tackle hard/soft" means more like "how commited the players would tackle consider the risks it brings". Hard means the players would likely to dive in most of the time (with the higher risk of fouls or losing their mark because the opposition evaded it), while soft means the opposite (the defenders would harass more than actually dive in).
Awesome job, thanks! I think the key is to swift between it ingame. Its also like real life, teams have periods of attacking and defending. U could start balanced, then attacking, when u score, u go back to balanced etc. And for that ull have to keep an eye on the game and what the opponent does (of if its a better team etc.). But ye it costs alot of time maybe so in that case this tests gives u even more proof to just go with (very) att. mostly.
Great vid, loads of work (appreciate that!) and good approach. Congrats! It is proven now that attacking mentality yields better results, but demands more from players, so they have to have higher stamina and overall better physical attributes. Cheers and I am looking forward to more vids from you Max!
Interesting findings. I tend to never play below balanced. Positive for a game I expect to win and Very Attacking in all or bust situations like 1-0 down in the 80th minute. Interesting part for me was players on Very Defensive not becoming fatigued. Might try that in 'dead rubber' games where the first of two legs decided the result.
I have NEVER scored a single goal when I’ve gone all out attacking. Even on attack. Positive yes, but mostly balanced, and lots on cautious too. Cautious is the lowest I go if defending a narrow lead, but often I created great opportunities in cautious. Attacking seems to just make my players rush and seem nervous
I believe that mentality has a lesser impact when you are equal to the opposition, maybe trying to match a team of 13's against one of 15/16's could show us some interesting stats
Max's channel (Evidence Based Football Manager) is woefully unknown, he does really good stuff - recommended (particularly if you enjoy a spreadsheet!). And please invite him back to this channel for another analysis.
Max will be doing more videos on our channel. It's just that this type of videos require a lot of time to prepare, so the next one will likely arrive in a couple of weeks. -Stam
Very, very good video. You seem to be great guy and is really easy listening to you, you also completely explain everything in this video, thumbs up !! Keep up the good work man.
Good video and good job. For a bit of nitpicky, it would be good to repeat the last one with teams expected to finish low in the table (unless I missed it, I think you did that part with Benfica).
Hey bud, in the last test, 3 different leagues were simulated. In the first league the players in my team have CA=160 which is a top team, in the second league the players have CA=140 which is middle-tier and in the 3rd league the players have CA=120 which is considered poor. So the results using the 3rd team is when the team is expected to finish low in the table. Here are the stats for CA=120 (poor team): Win/Draw/Loss Very Defensive: 14/17/111 Balanced: 16/15/113 Very Attacking: 20/13/110 So a similar trend is observed in the poor team: most number of wins when the team is on VA Mentality. However, the number of losses are more or less similar.
Studying the effects of fatigue on player performance is on my to-do list. Subscribe to my channel Evidence Based Football Manager, you can find my FM experiments there.
Added to watch later. This matter has actually been bothering lately. I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to simply scraping mentality off the game. I always saw mentality as a primary setting and everything else as fine tuning, but lately I get uncertain of how much is "fine" tuning. Which team plays wider? Control + normal or balanced + wide? Which tempo is faster? Control + normal or counter + high?
Back in the day in FM2010-FM2013, a positive mentality (or control as it was called) had a standard width of 13 out of 20 notches. If you instructed your player to go more wide that would increase the width slider up to 16 out of 20. Balanced mentality has 10 notches on standard. When you instruct your players to play more wide on balanced mentality, that increases the width to 13 notches. Therefore, a positive mentality on “normal” width and a balanced mentality with play wider should be roughly the same.
@@thiagogfalcao Yeah i agree but I understand why they scrapped the sliders as they were kinda complex. You could also completely brake the match engine by customizing your own tactics. As of now I’m enjoying a bit of FM2010. What a game. The ME of patch 10.3 is very, very good. You should try it.
Hey bud, I also prefer the slider system as it makes the system more transparent. Like you said, Mentality is an overall adjustment which changes the tempo / width etc as a set. I will be delving into the individual tactical instructions (tempo / width / pressing intensity) in the next few videos. Hopefully that will shed more light on how the match engine works.
Only seconds into the video, I already wonder about something else: Does full teamwork point really mean that the player is following the team instructions fully? I thought it's the very low creativity that makes him not to stray to far from the team instructions. To my understanding, Teamwork is more about how the player likes to bring his teammates into his play, not about team instructions.
I think the Ball Posession having a reaaaaly linear reverse bell curve comes down to; -> Defensive Mentality being really cautios therefor leading to more possession ->Attacking Mentality pressing more therefor leading to more possession -> Balanced doing neither So I think there might still be some effect due to team mentality
good experiment but it kinda doesnt make sense. it suggests that you play very attacking all the time so you get more goals and win more. but you dont play very attacking when youre clearyl the worse team. you dont play very defensive against an equal team or when you are better. you can remove variables but application in the real game doesnt make sense for me
Hey bud, according to the evidence I have, it makes sense to go Very Attacking regardless of the strength of your team. Very Attacking Mentality brings more wins for your team in the long run even if you are the underdog. I didn't publish this in the video but I did another set of experiments using the Leicester City vs Man City Community Shield match, changing the Mentality of LC from Very Defensive and Very Attacking. Despite LC being the clear underdog, LC bagged more wins when they were on Very Attacking Mentality.
The thing is from almost all of his great tests the conclusion is that they have built a pretty damn logical game that works similar what a normal football novice would expect 😊
Great video! Max is definitely a valuable addition to the FMScout channel. Regarding content, I have a question regarding team mentality and quality of chances: Does team mentality affect the average quality of shots (xG per shot, for either of long shots and close finishes)? The hypothesis is that players tire faster when the team mentality is more attacking, and players' fatigue may impact their composure when taking a shot... so is worth going with a more attacking team mentality when (somewhat urgently) needing a goal? In other terms, is going for quantity rather than quality worth it in terms of shots?
I got my calculator out and checked - the shot accuracy actually goes up (slightly) with mentality - 44% on target with very defensive, 46% with balanced and 50% with very attacking, which is somewhat counter-intuitive. I also checked the points implications of the win/draw/loss ratios and with 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, very attacking netted 477 points, balanced got 407 and very defensive gained 376.
Hey bud, it is difficult to assess the 'quality' of individual shot attempts. But I did observe that with VA Mentality, the number of shots, shots on target and xG all went up for your team. Since a higher xG will lead to higher chance of goal, it does make sense to go with VA Mentality if you urgently need a goal, even if it would make your players more tired. One way to test the hypothesis "when Very Attacking the players are more tired which will lead to more wasteful shots" will be by looking at the ratio of Shots : Shots on target. Using data from my spreadsheet, During Very Defensive: SOT/Shots = 44% During Very Attacking: SOT/Shots = 50% (the sample size is 11 players x 10 matches which may not be large enough) When Very Attacking the ratio of shots on target actually go UP. Thus the above hypothesis is rejected. When Very Attacking, the players are more tired, but they actually end up making accurate shots more frequently.
You can assess average xG of individual shot, by dividing XG by number od shots. XG is highly correlated with number od shots. So its normal that when shots go up the XG follows, This way you can check if the chances created were on average higher quality for each mentality
So attempt to score more often you score more often, score more than opponent win. Who would have thought it. I remember trying to sabotage a strong arsenal team in 08. I just played 4 midfielders four attacking midfielders and two strikers with all out attacking then went on permanent holiday. They were still overpowered.
I kinda expected that's what team mentality do and especially happy when you do it and show what it do, I never gone below cautious because that would mean I don't feel like attacking. Just before I watch this video I draw 1-1 against Liverpool with 1 man down for 30 minutes 😂 I play with defensive shape, but not defensive strategy and mentality, a bit like Spurs and Chelsea irl, they play 3 at the back but playing offensive strategy and have mentality to score as many goals as possible. There are a lot of misconception about defensive mentality imo.
I don’t 100% agree with the results and the reason is because you tested a “perfect” senario, so it’s like saying “in a perfect world we will all be rich and there will be no crime” That l’art of the test is obvious however, when we play our saves there are a lot of things that come into play that would alter your results
very attacking because all of your player trying to overload the other side of the pitch. Way back an old fm its called overload. Different word same old match engine🤣😄🤣
Enjoy learning all about TEAM MENTALITY in this first episode of our Tactical Instructions Analysis series. And make sure to check Max's channel for more evidence based videos.
Great to see this guy on the channel, his personal channel does so pretty amazing stuff in terms of attention to detail when he tests stuff. Awesome!
Whats is channel?
I've always treated the mentality part as element of risk. I always consider the players to be taking more risks the higher you set it
This proves that Very Attacking, Attacking mentalities are OP hence why most OP tactics have attacking mentality. There should be way more defensive risk then it currently is when using those settings.
@@boomdibam9823 how do i check the CA of teams?
@@boomdibam9823
Where’s your testing?
I love this type of content. I hope you delve into opposition instructions at some point (eg. what kind of an effect does the "tackle hard" instruction have on player fitness for both sets of players).
Opposition instructions are on my list of things to test. It might take a while though because I need to get through all the tactical instructions first!
More yellow cards lol
I don't think the "tackle hard" really means that the players would do the hard tacklings. Iirc, "tackle hard/soft" means more like "how commited the players would tackle consider the risks it brings". Hard means the players would likely to dive in most of the time (with the higher risk of fouls or losing their mark because the opposition evaded it), while soft means the opposite (the defenders would harass more than actually dive in).
Awesome job, thanks! I think the key is to swift between it ingame. Its also like real life, teams have periods of attacking and defending. U could start balanced, then attacking, when u score, u go back to balanced etc. And for that ull have to keep an eye on the game and what the opponent does (of if its a better team etc.).
But ye it costs alot of time maybe so in that case this tests gives u even more proof to just go with (very) att. mostly.
Wow. What a great addition to the FM scout team. Amazing content . 10/10
Great vid, loads of work (appreciate that!) and good approach. Congrats! It is proven now that attacking mentality yields better results, but demands more from players, so they have to have higher stamina and overall better physical attributes. Cheers and I am looking forward to more vids from you Max!
Interesting findings. I tend to never play below balanced. Positive for a game I expect to win and Very Attacking in all or bust situations like 1-0 down in the 80th minute.
Interesting part for me was players on Very Defensive not becoming fatigued. Might try that in 'dead rubber' games where the first of two legs decided the result.
I have NEVER scored a single goal when I’ve gone all out attacking. Even on attack. Positive yes, but mostly balanced, and lots on cautious too. Cautious is the lowest I go if defending a narrow lead, but often I created great opportunities in cautious. Attacking seems to just make my players rush and seem nervous
More of this 👌 great to see the evidence behind the mechanics of the game, not easy to get this info even from SI
I believe that mentality has a lesser impact when you are equal to the opposition, maybe trying to match a team of 13's against one of 15/16's could show us some interesting stats
Great video, I love a good statistical analysis!! Top work!!
Max's channel (Evidence Based Football Manager) is woefully unknown, he does really good stuff - recommended (particularly if you enjoy a spreadsheet!). And please invite him back to this channel for another analysis.
Max will be doing more videos on our channel. It's just that this type of videos require a lot of time to prepare, so the next one will likely arrive in a couple of weeks.
-Stam
Very, very good video. You seem to be great guy and is really easy listening to you, you also completely explain everything in this video, thumbs up !! Keep up the good work man.
Good video and good job. For a bit of nitpicky, it would be good to repeat the last one with teams expected to finish low in the table (unless I missed it, I think you did that part with Benfica).
Hey bud, in the last test, 3 different leagues were simulated. In the first league the players in my team have CA=160 which is a top team, in the second league the players have CA=140 which is middle-tier and in the 3rd league the players have CA=120 which is considered poor. So the results using the 3rd team is when the team is expected to finish low in the table.
Here are the stats for CA=120 (poor team): Win/Draw/Loss
Very Defensive: 14/17/111
Balanced: 16/15/113
Very Attacking: 20/13/110
So a similar trend is observed in the poor team: most number of wins when the team is on VA Mentality. However, the number of losses are more or less similar.
@@ebfm Cool. Sorry about that, I had a moment of focus going away and barely realized, then I thought it had not been that bad but it was.
@@LordMidichlorian no need to be sorry. feedbacks are always welcome.
Loved it, what a great video. Have you thought of doing one looking at how fatigue impacts performance?
Studying the effects of fatigue on player performance is on my to-do list. Subscribe to my channel Evidence Based Football Manager, you can find my FM experiments there.
Added to watch later.
This matter has actually been bothering lately. I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to simply scraping mentality off the game.
I always saw mentality as a primary setting and everything else as fine tuning, but lately I get uncertain of how much is "fine" tuning.
Which team plays wider? Control + normal or balanced + wide?
Which tempo is faster? Control + normal or counter + high?
Back in the day in FM2010-FM2013, a positive mentality (or control as it was called) had a standard width of 13 out of 20 notches. If you instructed your player to go more wide that would increase the width slider up to 16 out of 20. Balanced mentality has 10 notches on standard. When you instruct your players to play more wide on balanced mentality, that increases the width to 13 notches. Therefore, a positive mentality on “normal” width and a balanced mentality with play wider should be roughly the same.
@@19daniboy91 that's a great explanation, thanks. I really preferred back in the day when we could see the sliders for everything.
@@thiagogfalcao Yeah i agree but I understand why they scrapped the sliders as they were kinda complex. You could also completely brake the match engine by customizing your own tactics.
As of now I’m enjoying a bit of FM2010. What a game. The ME of patch 10.3 is very, very good. You should try it.
Hey bud, I also prefer the slider system as it makes the system more transparent.
Like you said, Mentality is an overall adjustment which changes the tempo / width etc as a set.
I will be delving into the individual tactical instructions (tempo / width / pressing intensity) in the next few videos. Hopefully that will shed more light on how the match engine works.
Only seconds into the video, I already wonder about something else: Does full teamwork point really mean that the player is following the team instructions fully? I thought it's the very low creativity that makes him not to stray to far from the team instructions. To my understanding, Teamwork is more about how the player likes to bring his teammates into his play, not about team instructions.
I think the Ball Posession having a reaaaaly linear reverse bell curve comes down to;
-> Defensive Mentality being really cautios therefor leading to more possession
->Attacking Mentality pressing more therefor leading to more possession
-> Balanced doing neither
So I think there might still be some effect due to team mentality
Love this! Great work
Brilliant video and good information, and very detailed.
good experiment but it kinda doesnt make sense. it suggests that you play very attacking all the time so you get more goals and win more. but you dont play very attacking when youre clearyl the worse team. you dont play very defensive against an equal team or when you are better. you can remove variables but application in the real game doesnt make sense for me
In this case it made more sense in that one match instead of a whole season with different teams.
Hey bud, according to the evidence I have, it makes sense to go Very Attacking regardless of the strength of your team. Very Attacking Mentality brings more wins for your team in the long run even if you are the underdog.
I didn't publish this in the video but I did another set of experiments using the Leicester City vs Man City Community Shield match, changing the Mentality of LC from Very Defensive and Very Attacking. Despite LC being the clear underdog, LC bagged more wins when they were on Very Attacking Mentality.
The thing is from almost all of his great tests the conclusion is that they have built a pretty damn logical game that works similar what a normal football novice would expect 😊
Great video!
Max is definitely a valuable addition to the FMScout channel.
Regarding content, I have a question regarding team mentality and quality of chances:
Does team mentality affect the average quality of shots (xG per shot, for either of long shots and close finishes)?
The hypothesis is that players tire faster when the team mentality is more attacking, and players' fatigue may impact their composure when taking a shot... so is worth going with a more attacking team mentality when (somewhat urgently) needing a goal? In other terms, is going for quantity rather than quality worth it in terms of shots?
I got my calculator out and checked - the shot accuracy actually goes up (slightly) with mentality - 44% on target with very defensive, 46% with balanced and 50% with very attacking, which is somewhat counter-intuitive. I also checked the points implications of the win/draw/loss ratios and with 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, very attacking netted 477 points, balanced got 407 and very defensive gained 376.
Hey bud, it is difficult to assess the 'quality' of individual shot attempts. But I did observe that with VA Mentality, the number of shots, shots on target and xG all went up for your team. Since a higher xG will lead to higher chance of goal, it does make sense to go with VA Mentality if you urgently need a goal, even if it would make your players more tired.
One way to test the hypothesis "when Very Attacking the players are more tired which will lead to more wasteful shots" will be by looking at the ratio of Shots : Shots on target. Using data from my spreadsheet,
During Very Defensive: SOT/Shots = 44%
During Very Attacking: SOT/Shots = 50%
(the sample size is 11 players x 10 matches which may not be large enough)
When Very Attacking the ratio of shots on target actually go UP. Thus the above hypothesis is rejected. When Very Attacking, the players are more tired, but they actually end up making accurate shots more frequently.
@@ebfm thanks for the answer!
You can assess average xG of individual shot, by dividing XG by number od shots. XG is highly correlated with number od shots. So its normal that when shots go up the XG follows, This way you can check if the chances created were on average higher quality for each mentality
@@Gonti103 wouldn't that neglect the standard deviation impact though?
Excellent video
So attempt to score more often you score more often, score more than opponent win. Who would have thought it.
I remember trying to sabotage a strong arsenal team in 08. I just played 4 midfielders four attacking midfielders and two strikers with all out attacking then went on permanent holiday. They were still overpowered.
Awesome! Looking forward to the next one.
great video!
This is the best content so far 👏
I kinda expected that's what team mentality do and especially happy when you do it and show what it do, I never gone below cautious because that would mean I don't feel like attacking. Just before I watch this video I draw 1-1 against Liverpool with 1 man down for 30 minutes 😂 I play with defensive shape, but not defensive strategy and mentality, a bit like Spurs and Chelsea irl, they play 3 at the back but playing offensive strategy and have mentality to score as many goals as possible. There are a lot of misconception about defensive mentality imo.
I love FM scout.
What are the std's for the averages?
positive is always the best.
nice
And AI switches to COUNTER and everything falls apart xD
I don’t 100% agree with the results and the reason is because you tested a “perfect” senario, so it’s like saying “in a perfect world we will all be rich and there will be no crime” That l’art of the test is obvious however, when we play our saves there are a lot of things that come into play that would alter your results
In other words, a controlled setting that tries to isolate one variable. In this case, mentality. Which he clearly stated at the start of the video.
very attacking because all of your player trying to overload the other side of the pitch. Way back an old fm its called overload. Different word same old match engine🤣😄🤣
It got too nerdy for my liking 🙄