Database Tech News: Metal Gear Delta, PS5 Slim & Pro incoming, FSR2 & DLSS A Crutch, Retro news #25
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- A the world of gaming, business, technology and the internet voices turns, another month brings a brand new DataBase.
On this episode of Database we discuss
0:00 Metal Gear Solid Master Collection falls short
4:14 Metal Gear Delta is a Hollow meal?
12:00 PS5 Slim is almost here
19:21 Who does the PS5 Pro make sense for?
29:40 Why are games & launches getting worse?
42:14 Red Dead Redemption 60fps confuses
45:05 Patron Question: Is FSR2, DLSS, Up sampling technology a Crutch?
52:30 Retro News: Amiga CD32 Launches & Halloween horrors
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Can't wait for PS5 pro
I'm excited for the PS5 Pro and what it could do for PSVR 2. 120 FPS and no reprojection anymore!
@@DalazG i think he meant 120fps on psvr2
PS5Pro makes a lot of business sense for Sony, in fact I have a hard time identifying any real drawbacks. On a personal level, with the prospect of better looking and running games, I am definitely in the market for one :)
It's refreshing to hear someone talking about a subject and not being influenced by their feelings, it's just considered facts based on experience and the available data.
Ps5-Pro /VR bundle in time for Christmas would be awesome! But think it would be next year.
You're the best in the biz. Always coming with the real insight. Love this podcast style! more please!
Great video. Love the business and developer perspective as well. And enjoy the retro stuff too. Loved the 80s and 90s for gaming. Hopefully we will see that PS5 Pro !
NXGamer: "Which brings me to my next comment actually which is around the fact that the PS5 Pro. Obviously I've not changed my mind on this. I don't think it makes any commercial sense, and certainly developer sense, to ship a pro model at all."
NXGamer then continues to describe how awesome the ps5pro could be and concludes with lines like "like I say there is a there is a
market for the PS5 Pro" and "hey do you know what it could sell. It could sell very well because people will pay for Quality"
I think NXGamer actually did change his mind on how much commercial sense this makes. If it could sell very well then it does make commercial sense to ship.
120fps modes, a DLSS competitor, full path tracing modes, not far off from playing it on a 4090? Those all sound really awesome and a much bigger, more meaningful upgrade than the ps4pro was. If a current ps5 owner has the option to get all that for just 400$ (assuming the pro costs 800 and they can sell their current ps5 for 400), then that sounds like a tempting upgrade to me. It's a much better value than getting a pc with a 4080 in it.
🤦🏾♂️
I liked this format. You covered a lot of ground which we very interesting!
this is amazing really love this style of talk and news that you share with us and keep doing that its fun to listen to
LETS GO MICHAEL! I AM HERE FOR IT! (wish u had more time for us to do more of these
Great video, very informative.
We are waiting for the video you promised of the comparison between Spiderman and Spiderman 2.
This is great, like the insights into dev and industry practices
Excited for this m8
I really want PS5 Pro to support every PlayStation game ever. Old disks included, where applicable. PS3 digital purchases too, of course.
PS5 Pro! Bring it! Premium Console! A full 4K@60 😂. I’ll pay the extra for u all 😉
Thx bro
Keep it up ! 😎
Couldn't agree more regarding the regression in technical pioneering within gaming. However, personally im grateful for the remakes akin to Demon's souls'. With MGS3 however, crouch walking is a welcome addition. I hope there are more trailing paths and enhanced NPC/ enemy behaviour too. But id prefer a more 1:1 experience than not with mgs3 👊❤️
It’ll likely hold very similar to mgs3. Like demons souls did.
I will get a ps5 pro on day one 💪
Going to throw my hat in the ring and also say I'm really looking forward to a PS5 Pro
Absolutely agree - technology is a tool. It's up to people how it's used. The creativity is sorely lacking in this industry. 😕
Love the rave footage.i use to dj back then in a couple of clubs.faze 2's after hours untill the criminal justice bill came in to effect.
Metal Gear Hollow, hilariously true! I have the original hd collection and see no reason to spend money on this! thanks Konami, for disrespecting your customers, again!
Lovely CD32! If it had even as1mb more of fast ram it would make quite the difference speed wise!
You think the pro will be 699$ my price prediction for the ps5 pro is 599$ but if it’s 699$ then that’s a bigger upgrade
RIP Amiga and commodore.
I really like the unscripted “waffle”. 🙂Always a valuable perspective on things.
I think, one of the problems with modern gaming is that the biggest market is more akin to gambling than gaming. Many mobile games and the loot box mess work more like gambling machines than traditional games.
I just saw in the retro section, I had all the shown hardware. 🙂
There is definitely a market for PS5 Pro. I could spend $2k or $3k on a gaming PC, but I don't want to game on PC. I'd much rather have a more expensive "Pro" console. Even at a $1000 this would be a better value to me than getting a gaming PC.
A console that can run every game in minimum 60fps/4K is the dream! Hopefully PS Pro can deliver this to us console gamers finally, though I still dont believe one is in development!
Amiga CD32 release in Brazil too
I would much rather a Pro model that featured a modest spec bump supporting turn-key (as much as can be done) upsampling and frame-generation (60 to 120Hz), with a bit of beef left over to explore ML in games.
I've written a rasterizer too! And a ray-tracer, and a language (actually many), and a server (many) , and a graphics API, and a bunch of other stuff. You're right in that these things provide added perspective.
Michael, what do you think of the PS5 slim needing an internet connection at launch to read disks on the BDrive as without it it's just a very expensive paper weight that won't work for physical games?
Monster Hunter Rise did launch with an none existent endgame and an unfinished story which felt underwhelming however the title updates did come in the following months which were free. You might be conflating the paid updates with the Sunbreak expansion which was well worth the money tbf as it had more content than most full games.
I think PS5 Pro makes complete sense.
Sony want to maintain their console as the best place to play their games. Right now, the ps5 base will slowly start falling behind as the generation goes on.
1. Ps5 pro will be able to keep up with pc
2. It'll expand visuals and framerate for ps vr
3. It will be for those wanting it.
It won't be any additional frames. It doesn't make sense. It'll probably have a fidelity mode with higher graphics at 30fps and a performance mode at 60fps with game graphica equivalent to base ps5 fidelity
the many people that bought PCs during the PS5 shortage are likely the ones a PS5 Pro will target since upgrade for a nice GPU is as costly as getting a PS5 Pro it will make them switch back to Playstation
Really good content. Im interested to see what Sony could potentially bring to the table with a ps5 pro. I've been saying for a couple years now that i can see MS pulling out of the hardware space and Xbox/gamepass essentially becoming another Steam like platform. That seems to be the way its going.
The PS5 Pro will probably compete with the 4080 … in raw performance and on paper.
And that’s is never the full story. I think the area where we will see both of them shine is not in their raw performance alone, but HOW that performance is used. Fluidity vs rigidity.
The 4080 shines when using PC’s fluidity. With a decent port, the user can choose IQ over frame rate or vice versa. Also last year’s titles from PS5, PS4 (and even some PS3 and PS2) see framerate and settings boost on the 4080 since devs tend to leave those things open on PC. While the PS5 pro will shine when using Console’s rigidity. The low level optimization leads to unbeatable IQ per dollar on those games that “take advantage” of the pro.
The 4080 (and really the pc as a whole) is facing questions in terms of its optimization when it comes to PC ports (rigitity), but I think the ps5 pros will have the other side of that - questions about it’s fluidity.
A PS5 Pro *could* run current-gen titles at 120 and beyond with higher settings etc, but will developers go back to update this year's and last year's games? And what about those popular last-gen titles? Some devs will. Some devs won’t.
If I had to guess, some studios (like Rockstar and first party) will take amazing advantage of the pro, and some (like those live service studios, mismanaged studios, and small indies) wouldn’t take AS much advantage of it. The PS5 pro’s performance in some cases may be “politics”-bound or “rigidity”-boud. It’s the same thing as Red Dead 2 still running at 30 on PS5, even though we know it can run higher Rockstar’s “politics” are getting in the way and I think people should be ready for that. And I’d say the same thing to owners of a 4080, be ready to be politics-bound. These high end products don’t always 100% live up to the hype *when it comes to their performance*. It’s always on a per-game basis.
The PS5 will be no where close to the 4080. There is no way in hell that Sony is going to put a 7900XT or 7900XTX equivalent (but faster) in the 5-Pro. lol. You should take a step back on what you expect. Possibly a low end 7700/7800XT performance and hopefully the speeds will be enough to ensure solid 60fps games, and a more reliable 30fps ray tracing mode.
I want a PS5 Pro, this extended crossgen period made me used to 60FPS on consoles and it's really hard to come back from it. Now that is over it's getting really hard to get games that run at consistent 60FPS and with a decent internal resolution (not like 720p). Sure in part is lack of optimizations, specifically in Unreal titles (that engine is still to much single threaded for the render thread, and physics tread), as Spider-Man 2 shows it can be done. But I suspect that in the next 4 years to the PS6 those games will become rare as developers aim to push visual fidelity or physics simulation. Like I doubt GTA VI will run at 60FPS in any console beside the PS5 Pro with so much things on the screen, so much physics at the visual fidelity (imagine taking a car and running through that crowded beach? No way that a 60FPS mode the FPS wouldn't have a nose dive). And yeah I would pay premium for it if they do bring a substantial upgrade.
Also it's allows Sony to deploy and test features for the PS6, specially in the realm of AI and raytracing. I bet their goals is to make a console were every game will run on path tracing like Cyberpunk or at least ray tracing global illumination so they can streamline development pipelines and cut down cost of development across the board.
Ps5 plates Arent compatible since slim model is much smaller. They will release plates for the slim model later.
I completely disagree with you on the Pro not making sense, if only because I love bespoke console hardware and want it as powerful as possible.
If there is more than one SKU then it's no longer a bespoke PS5. They might aswell be a random PC upgrade at that point. Just be patient and the PS6 will be out before you know it. The PS5 is no where near underpowered unlike its predeccesser.
Sorry, but I totally disagreed with your original thoughts regarding the need for a PS5 Pro. I always thought that an 8 year life cycle for any gaming hardware is just too long. I’ve said this right from the start of this current generation and it does seem that both you and DF have now changed your stance on this, for the better.
GTA 6 might be the perfect game for the PS5 Pro.
The recent unlocked framerate mode in Spider-Man 2 is going to be an ongoing option for all Sony studios going forward. It takes the need out for an initial "unlock" patch. The PS5 Pro will absolutely have a frame gen option, hopefully as a settings on off toggle in the OS for the benefit of all PS5 games. Just wishful thinking.
Couldn’t agree more, games don’t seem to be advancing gameplay wise, just graphically. Look at the depth of gameplay that MGS snake eater had, games these days make the menus and collecting and upgrading equipment ( which should be a simple task ) over complicated thinking that this adds depth, no it doesn’t, that’s not depth of gameplay it’s just annoying.
Ray Tracing looks great but devs have got so very good at faking real time lighting that a lot of the time at first glance you can’t tell if it’s a Ray Traced game or not, it’s become a buzz word just like the resolution thing did and it’s the same argument just like native 4k is a waste if you can use checker boarding instead so is Ray Tracing if you can get away with not using it because of the cost. RT in certain scenes that require it would be the best idea but I’ve seen side by side examples of a room lit with baked lighting and lit with RT and a lot of the time the baked looks as good and sometimes artistically to the eye more pleasing.
I remember playing games like Syphon Filter on the PS1 were you could shoot lights out to give you cover of shadow, how many games now have that simple dynamic ?!!
Remember the early Splinter cells and its awesome real-time shadow and lighting not just looking amazing on Xbox but having a real new game-play designed around it innovating on the stealth genre further? Those were the days.
I don't see the PS5 Pro selling well if it cost more than U$649.
a year after the release of the ps5 pro, people will be like " we desparately need a ps6 " . If developers follow the same path of skipping optimizations, they will be able to max out any hardware thrown at them in a heartbeat. just increase resolution or increase settings or add a raytracing effect "that mostly looks the same as rasterized techniques nowadays" and bam ! you can max out any gpu on earth.
4090 is already struggling with current titles, not because it's underpowered but because less focus is given to optimizations.
and regarding path tracing ,cyberpunk 2077 looked entirely different with path tracing because the raster techniques used in the game were ancient, this is a game that was more than 10 years in the making ! but checkout the differences in path tracing vs raster in alan wake 2, you will find only negligible differences. so even if they make a console capable of path tracing, it will not make a huge difference to justify it's absurdly increased cost
Nothing is absurd about increasing the price as long as the value is there. People are paying over $1000+ for a phone because the value is there.
@@kimpossible4450 in a world where next gen games run at 720p internal resolution, if they somehow magically doubled the power of the ps5 into the new console, it will be able to render that game at 1080p max, is this a good value for 800$+ console ? People felt the need for an upgraded console because of all the games that are rendering at these absurdly low resolutions, however judging by how demanding these games are, doubling or even tripling the power of current consoles won't be enough to render at even 1440p let alone 4k.
Does this sound like a hardware issue or a software issue to you ?
@@mohamad-abdoI've been saying the same thing and these people don't get it. The hardware has never been the problem. The problem is with the current business/developer model of release now, fix it later and the lack of pushing real innovation and creativity as Michael says.
@@kimpossible4450They are paying a monthly fee for 2 years, not the same thing as going out forking $1000 flat out on a new console, do you people not remember the PS3 launch price and what happened there?
Personally i feel pro is necessary , for example alan wake 2. I'm just not satisfied with what we're getting.
Need for 1440p 60 with raytracing or 4K 60 natively
Then apply framegen and upscaling to those figures if you want to push path tracing and nice visuals or even just 120hz modes .
Fs2 looks horrible when its below 1080
Buy a pc,consoles have always been about cutbacks and best bang for your buck
where is alan wake 2 performance review mate ? i never buy a game until I see your review.
Yeah, I expect PS5Pro being more powerful machine but they price it around $800.
As premium option.
Then it won't sell, guarantee. Remember the PS3 price? No PC enthusiast will touch it either because PCMR are wierdos and don't care if they're getting shafted in price because ma PC da best and all that.
I would love just a brain dump from you about Micro$ofts ongoing attempt to eat the whole industry, since you Know MORE then anyone else seemingly from every perspective/aspect of Game Dev.
Basically is just gonna do what ps4 pro did for ps4.
Higher resolutions and make the 60fps performance mode in games better.
The biggest negatives are still tied to the amd side of not being good in RT and upscaling.
If sony can improve on those it would make ps5 a little more interesting.
19:45 i was saying the same thing on Twitter a few months before the gen even started and they called me crazy. Literally everything ur saying, I was saying months before launch pertaining to the PS5 and SX.
Yet when we see people leverage the hardware of the sx it leaves the ps5 behind.
@@TheBean87 nah it doesn't, nobody has leveraged iys bottlenecked architecture yet. Only time it leaves PS5 behind is in slow paced games that stream data very slowly. Once next gen data is being streamed at TRUE next gen speeds in true next-gen amounts, PS5 pulls ahead sir. Actually we only seen the SX pull ahead in a couple games which are very slow games that are ONLY GPU intensive. The SX isnt the most powerful console, just has the most powerful GPU ON PAPER. Alan Wake 2 is streaming data suuuper slowly, nothing special. Once data is streamed fast the SX GPU AND CPU slows down alot like its custom decompression blocks aint workin'. U never noticed how fast the PS5 UE5 demo was in comparison to the very very slow SX UE5 demo? Notice how ALL the games on the SX currently has player speeds from 1-2 gens ago? Also games like Spider-Man 2 shows u the PS5'S true power, not 3rd party games. Until i see the SX move data like Spider-Man 2, does Ray tracing atleast almost close to ps5, and the games are as fast as PS Studios games WITHOUT a drop in fidelity, the SX aint shit bruh🤣. It even slows down too much when doing RT which is why we get amazing rt in PS Studios games but weak RT in multiplats, Xbox is bottlenecking multiplats which is VERY evident when u look at what PS Studios got the PS5 doing. U cant name me 3 games on xbox that streams data fast and leaves ps5 behind. The SX cant handle speed. Dude saw 1 recent game perform SLIGHTLY better and say it leaves PS5 behind🤦🏿🤣. Nah it doesnt. The SX still only doing last gen shit. Where is its RT advantage over ps5? Doesn't exist cuz its already slow GPU slows down even more during rt. We haven't even seen them flood a game with data at the lowest speed of their advertised SSD speed yet, Im sure cuz the data gets slowed down before reaching its final destination. But im gonna stop here cuz Im wasting my time. people like u dont get it even though we see PS5 punching above iys weight and the SX below its weight. The SX is a bottle box. Velocity Architecture has no velocity lol! Ur speaking what u think, we're speaking what we know and can actually be seen
@@TheeThunderGod man that’s a lot of false information and just nonsensical rambling your doing there. I can see how delusional you are. First off any RT in a 3rd party game does better on the sx. The only studio from the Sony side actually doing RT is insomniac. Also according to df Xbox still holds the majority of games at a better level than the ps5. It’s funny how you talk about leveraging the hardware yet we finally see a game use the hardware advantages of the sx an it leaves ps5 behind by 10 frames. You also notice that the games the ps5 “runs better” on are usually lower res than the sx an it’s only by a couple fps it’s better.
23:45 I'm sorry but what...?
Best case scenario, say they double the performance of the PS5 for a PS5 pro, the notion that it would then be able to play games like cyber punk with path tracing is laughable. Even the 7900 xtx (which would still be faster than this hypothetical pro) can barely do it that.
Yeah I don’t get why he thinks that’s how powerful it will be. Like the ps4 pro vs the ps4 wasn’t even a big jump they had to do checkerboarding.
Nah. A PS5 Pro is a great idea if they implement it right. Features in games implemented for PS5 Pro, could potentially sell more even when PS6 releases if they have PS5 backwards compatibility. Many times when games are multiplatform, such as a game released on PC vs PS5, it can be a determining factor of which platform a person buys it for if graphics and framerate differ significantly. If it sells on PC and the sale isn't made on PS5, it means Sony didn't make profit from a game they could have. I am willing to pay a fair price for a powerful PS5 Pro.
If its $799 but really as good as a 4080
It would sure sell
But from the leaks if they were true,
Its a weak console only 30% faster
60cus wont add alot of performance.
Which means no 60fps on 30fps titles! And you would be still stuck at 30fps which would make it a failed product.
I surely hope all the leaks are BS and sony is aiming for far higher specs!
Never have liked the half-gen console revisions... it screws up the console generation jumps and makes it more complicated for developers
I think it's a shame you can only use offcail drives with the PS5 slim. When I first learned of the slim having a detachable drive I was hopeing it would mean we would get third party drive with mulitple disc drives.
Xbox should release a pro system called The Xbox Series X Pro 360😐😐😐
Games like Alan Wake 2 can benefit from a Pro model. It's currently performing best on a Series X.
I love that you state" Micro$oft are trying to destroy/own the market/industry" and elaborate on it. IGN, DF, Yters all act like the thing they supposedly love isnt under attack and EVEN suck the D*** of the attacker. I dont see gaming EVER rebounding back to the 2000-2010s where new IP and innovation was constant. BUT if M$ gets their way you'll have 1 FPS franchise, 1 Racing franchise, 1 RPG franchise and endless sequels/rehashes...... meanwhile I haven't seen ONE article on IGN stating what I just did. people are sheep and need to be told the truth
I’m sorry but what the hell are you smoking.
I won't play 30 fps games on an OLED display because of stutter. I would buy a Pro if every game runs at 60 fps plus.
Buy a good high res CRT 30fps feels like 45, job done.
40:24 What is it with that habit of clapping to encourage clapping? This artificial production of hype is so cringeworthy and straight-up crowbcat fuel. P.S. Swedish developer Martin Sahlin was the antithesis to these plastic presentations and unsurprisingly won the hearts of the E3 audience in 2015 for his awkward but genuine presentation of _Unravel._
Technology marches forward, but the employees at game studios are increasingly pathetic. Long gone are the days of your "id Software"s, -a bunch of talented, intelligent, and passionate guys just working to make the games of their dreams. Now it's all about diversity quotas and ticking boxes, rather than hiring the best candidates - easily observed by the horrendous state of writing and optimisation/performance in games of the past 5 or so years.
Very enjoyable video and interesting topics. Cheers from rainy old Cambridge!
I am really disappointed with ps5 version of Alan Wake 2. Terrible, very grainy ssr, no reflections in any mirrors, shimmering on almost every surface, terrible fsr2 breakup in motion, drops below 30fs often. Then I launched Hogwarts on ps5 - fantastic modes. 30fps mode is 4k, great playing 30fps, ssr is super clean, no breakup in motion, higher motion blur quality. And then there is even 40fps mode and rt mode. Night and day compared to AW2 image quality.
Yeah, AW2 is amazing looking on pc but there are better looking games on ps5 if we compare it to console version.
pro makes no sense, first party games will be limited by base ps5 and multiplat games will be limited by series s
if the PS5 pro is coming out. Microsoft might as well cancel the Xbox and stick to Publishing games.
Or .... Xbox & PlayStation makes a joint-venture console that plays both Xbox & PS games. 👍🏾
If ps5 pro cant guarantee 4k native 60fps pc ultra settings or at the very least for a cheaper price 4k 30fps ultra settings then it’s DEAD ON ARRIVAL.
Actually in Alan Wake 2 the Series X performs considerably better than PS5. What could be the reason for this?
Hardware Mesh Shading
Mesh Shading Geometry Engine (XSX) RDNA2 vs Primitive Shading Geometry Engine (PS5) RDNA1
These console represent the weakest generation in the history of consoles. We are behind PCs at this point by comparatively what the ps4 was after 6 years of being out. Ps and Xbox need to find a solution for DLSS quick and stop relying on AMD. Ps4 even with the cpu bottleneck wasn’t this much weaker than PCs. 4k 60fps path tracing while we get 1080p 30fps ray tracing. Insanity
PS4/Xbox one was massive shit at release lol
What the hell for do I need pro version of any console when these games take half a decade to make, ship in poor state and are woke as fuck 😂