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UA-cam comments are being a bit weird for me, apologies if this is a repeat... The term "New Atheism" existed well before the 2006 Wired article. I went for a brief dig through the google groups archive of alt.atheism, as I thought I'd encountered the term there, and I had stopped participating there before 2006. I found: The New Atheism: And the Erosion of Freedom (1986) Robert A. Morey. P&R Publishing: Phillipsberg, NJ. ISBN: 0-87552-362-5
No chain restaurants. I need to see the best mom and pop pizza places near you. Pizza is clearly the food of the gods. I don't even care which gods. I just appeciate their part in the creation of pizza. 🍕🍕🍕🍕🍕🍕
Well, I've been an atheist for over 50 years, having achieved atheism in my mid to late teens. It's hard to put a particular date on when I stopped believing the Roman Catholicism I was raised in. I didn't stop going to church till I stopped living with my parents, which was after my first university degree. It's not something I've ever discussed with my family, they just know I don't go to church, and I don't even know whether or how many of them do. Religion just isn't something that gets discussed, at least, not when I'm around. If you pushed me on what made me stop believing, it's probably a whole number of things. Sagan's pale blue dot was likely significant, then I was educated as a biochemist, so the "miracle" of life wasn't as remarkable as all that. I'm also gay, and it's hard to be gay in most Christian churches. So there's nothing that stands out as THE one thing that made me lose belief. The notion that an entire vast universe was necessary to put people on that pale blue dot was probably most significant. I just couldn't see a god going to all that effort. Perhaps most significant is the projection of human failings on to this god. We had created god in our own image, rather than the reverse that Christian scripture claims. I just couldn't imagine a god with our particular strengths and weaknesses. Then there's the problematic issue of where this god came from, and why should it be like us. None of it made any sense. Maybe there's something out there that creates universes, who knows? Who can know? I very much doubt it, though I suppose we could call it a god, but it's certainly nothing like us.
I kind of strongly disagree tbh. This implies that a person couldn't genuinely say they aren't part of a culture while they objectively are (and vice versa). I'm sure we all have tons of examples of that even as first-hand experience. Let's not subjectivise culture to this extreme degree, please.
I would add a caveat. You're talking about online atheists (primarily), and/or atheist activists, and people for whom being an atheist is a significant component of their self identity. There is a culture around that. My wife is an atheist, but she thinks so little about it that she would never label herself as such. It's not a part of her self-identity. I suspect that she represents the great majority of atheists who exist.
@@russriley3005 well if that is the case you could just say it "i just don't believe in god", or better yet why share it publicly you could also heep it private, unless someone asks you aren't required to share it, if they ask, politeness manners dictate you should try to label yourself, but you still don't need to comply.
I think the difference is mainly how religious your upbringing was. If you were brought up super religious, and a firm believer, deconverting and becoming an atheist is by necessity a big deal. If you were brought up like me, by parents who aren’t religious in a place where religion is not a big deal, of course being an atheist is not a big deal.
I don't believe in god but I am not without humor, if ask, I am an orthodox Farinki, not to be confused with the reformed Farinkis that throw the bathwater of Bubbis out the window. we orthodox Farinkis drink the bathwater@@ГеоргиГеоргиев-с3г
@@tovekauppi1616 for me it is slightly a bigger deal than average, because of the implications, i have almost absolutely no care in the world on the God question, but when someone says their religion compels them to worsen the life of others i go full on anti-theist, because re-labelling of objectively(lets say by popular vote) immoral actions as a virtuous acts leads to really bad outcomes, by anyone's measure of bad.
This reminds me of a conversation I once had with my mom. She told me she was part of a group that went to ”atheist meetings”. My initial response was a joking ”what do you do at one of these meetings? Sir around and talk about the lack of something?” to which she responded: ”nah, were fighting to keep religion out of schools.” after which, my jaw hit the floor. See, I'm Canadian and my mom, having moved to Florida, now had to contend with her local government fighting against the separation of church and state. (So others don't get a shockingly sad response, she passed away in 2016. Fuck Cancer!)
@@S.I.U. I'm sorry to break this to you. Unfortunately she passed away in 2016 from Cancer. She was a cool lady. She was an author too. If you're interested, her name Tanya Coovadia. I'm not sure if her books are still available, but you can likely find them with her name. She also wrote a blog about her battle with Cancer called ”I'm literally fucking dying”. I wanted you to know in case you wanted to hear more from her. Thank you for thinking she was cool. ❤️
@@paranoiarpincess I'll search for her works ! I'm sure they're amazing !! Also , I'm sorry if I made you feel bad . Amazing humans raise amazing humans so if isn't asking too much , I hope take my words to her as a little-bit-late inheritance and apply them on your daily life . Hope your doing fine ! 💕
@@S.I.U. thank you so much. I was worried I would bum you out more than anything. Her passing still his me like a truck but knowing you're interested in her works and her life more than made up for it this time. It really means a lot so thank you, and I hope you have a great rest of your life or until I get to check in with you again if it so happens in the future ❤️
In Germany, Life of Brian cannot be shown in public theatres on good friday, as it is a mandated day of observance and rest. As an example, clubs and discos are commonly closed then, too. LoB is considered to be disrespctdul to chritian groups, which is why it cannot be shown along with other films that stand accused of mocking christianity. Consequently it has become a meme in german atheist circles to host gatherings watching LoB on good friday.
@@christiner6000not really. the nothern parts are evangelical, the southern parts catholical. i'm from the northern parts and was once a part of a team hosting children church services, i was well into the young christian endeavor thing, my abitur was on an evangelical school, and i pretty much voted the first several years for the CDU, because i genuinely believed that only christian based parties can direct this country effectively. but since since i became an atheist, i actually started to look into the available political informations (e.g. the country spending plans), i'm not strictly following any one party anymore.
@@christiner6000Germany is much more secular than the US. Since last year more citizens identify them selfes as atheists than religious. Weirdly we still like the tradition formed by christianaty like closed shops on sundays and enjoy the different religious holidays. We do not oppose religion as subject in schools because kids get to study a variety of the main world religions. Also, different regions handle thise thigs different Germany is not a monolith
I think "culture" is often conflated with "monolith", which is how so many religious people see us. So I completely understand atheists wanting to downplay the notion of atheist culture when we're told we're all one thing with one experience and one belief.
When I identify myself as an Agnostic Atheist, I still feel the need to clarify my position further: In the sense that just because I don't deny the possibility of there being a creator, that doesn't mean I'm still open to the idea of your god being a possibility.
I call myself an agnostic atheist as well, but I think there are specific types of god claims that you can be "gnostic" in denying. For instance, if a presented idea of a god is logically incoherent you can be certain that it's not something that actually exists.
@@Hiforest but you don't know for sure it didn't, you can't. Humanity does not have the mental nor physical faculties to prove nor disprove such a thing.
Yo JJ what do you think about Climate Change? You seem to be a reasonable person that wouldn't deny science, but you also label yourself as Conservative, so I'm concerned that you're hiding your power level. I've never seen you talk about it, so I was curious what you believe.
@@lekebabfrancais9018 I think it’s one of the defining challenges of our time but I’m not sure what the best public policy solution is. I don’t want juts symbolic or feel-good policies I want policies that will make a difference.
@@JJMcCullough My limited understanding of the current political situation in Canada, is that the Liberals have a carbon tax and are trying to build green energy, but I'm unaware of ANY policy suggestion by the Conservatives to combat Climate Change. I'm wondering how you would justify voting or supporting a party, whose only position seems to be inaction, to someone like me, who's of the perspective that the Climate issue could become devastating both economically and socially for all, if not addressed appropriately. If you would suggest the private sector as a solution, I would disagree, because it seems so far to be unable to adequately address the issue without public pressure.
@JJMcCullough Nobody wants symbolic, feel good policies - that argument is a strawman and a delaying tactic. Canada spends tens of billions (at least) per year subsidising one of the dirtiest fossil fuel extraction industries in the world. Finding policies that are easy wins for the climate isn't hard but the Conservatives oppose them
I have a catholic coworker who gave me a very sympathetic look when we had a conversation about my being an atheist. Then he proceded to tell me how it must be sad for me to be a nihilist with nothing to make me happy. I was taken aback as I don't see myself as being a contrarian or nihilistic at all. I survived cancer, I live every day to the fullest and I never bash or criticize others for their religion or faith. There seems to be this common misconception that all atheist are Nietzschian... Which is also kind of ridiculous as that belief is also a total bastardization of what Neitzche believed. I just find it crazy how little is known or understood about atheism.
if you dont believe there is a God, then from where do you get your morals? if you dont believe there is a God, then whats the diffrance between you being alive and dead? isnt it just a rearangement of atoms? if you dont believe there is a God, then what is your purpose? and if you are free to choose it, then why are you aganst ppl who's purpose is to kill? to rape? if you aren't Nietzschian, then what are you?
So, I know that since you're atheist, then you have to believe that there is nothing wrong about incest. So let's walk that path, using that same logic: According to atheist religion, What is wrong about cannibalism?
@@MilitantAntiAtheismThere’s two things I want to say. 1. Atheism is not a religion, if it were a religion, switching the TV off would be a channel. 2. Alex O’Connor (Cosmic Skeptic) poses good arguments about why incest and cannibalism can be argued as bad as an atheist. You could look it up for more details but it’s essentially emotivism, where when we think of incest, we think “boo”, and therefore, bad.
Regarding debates. It's the most infuriating feeling when somebody openly questions your belief, you honestly answer, get a few incredulous laughs or weird stares and after you defend your position with anything resembling a formal argument you're instantly an "edge lord Atheist debate fanatic". But it is what it is.
Some made a bad point online, I commented why I thought it was bad, and another person said “ok, r/atheism”. Like dude, disagreeing with you does not make me some toxic zealot
The mention of The Life of Brian and the topic of the video reminded me of this. Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals! Crowd: [in unison] Yes! We're all individuals! Brian: You're all different! Crowd: [in unison] Yes, we are all different! Man in crowd: I'm not... Crowd: Shhh!
Outside of the english speaking sphere and following the train of thought of the flying spaguetti monster as a mock religion figure, he rubber duck became the basis of an actual real life atheist church in madrid that exists as a foil to the catholic church. Here, the rubber duck is seen as the god of all things small and insignificant. The place even offers sunday ceremonies, baptisms and weddings.
In Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series there’s a goddess of things that are stuck in a drawer. That makes more sense than the christian god, because things do get stuck in drawers a lot.
I was never raised religious or non religious, I was simply raised as a kid, and so here I am, as an atheist. Most of these things you listed I either do not partake in or had no idea about to begin with, I feel like this has list is more applicable to religious converts or atheist activists than people like me. It also gives me an interesting perspective on the "You were never born religious" quote. Cause to me, that lines up perfectly, I had no ideas put into my head about religion so there was no breaking away to be made. Granted the one thing I was taught that could apply here was to not believe things immedietely.
Exactly, I was born and raised in a country that's very irreligious and most people just don't think or speak about religion too often. Militantly religious people get the same nasty looks like militant atheists because what are they even fighting about?
This! I would describe myself as somewhere between pure agnostic and weak atheist which is funny when considering my experiences with religion. I wasn’t raised in a religious family, though my mum converting to buddhism when I was about 12. She tried converting me too 😂. I attended a catholic kindergarten where we recited grace every meal, went to a christian primary school and HEAVILY christian high school. When I was little, I went to christian camps with my religious friends. I can still recite hymns and christian songs from my childhood (tbf some christian songs are bangers). Most of my friends now are religious and all of my closest friends are christian. I live in a country where I would say religion has a sizeable influence on political values and people’s lifestyles, but I have rarely felt it forced onto me despite it being so present in my life. The reason I think I didn’t end up being christian myself was that our country is very multicultural and schools taught many religions, including aboriginal creation myths to us, not just christianity. I think I thought each religion’s lore was just elaborate children’s stories with a little moral at the end like the ‘tortoise and the hare’ 😂
How can it be, that pdf file atheists defend the religious claim of atheist religion that men can give birth, while then at the same time, they reject the claim of islame that women can be pregnant for ten years? There's zero evidence for either of the two claims, they're blatant lies. So what makes a difference from one to the other for atheists?
Yep. The "athiest culture" he talks about is actually just "a group of Christians/other-religions that lost their faith". Religion runs DEEP in the brain sadly, and this is why the cults get to children early. To permanantly shape their brain with the perspective of "the in crowd vs the out crowd". It does this to the oint that even people who escaped religion, are still incapable of understanding that the tribalism is NOT how non-religious people (people who were never brainwashed with it to begin with) work. These people like this guy are SO ingrained with the tribalism that they think evne non-belief is a "tribe" like the tribe they escaped. The "atheist culture" is just online ex-religious people desperate for another "tribe" since their brain feels the need to be in one, even after escaping the harmful one.
I think atheism is such an interesting example of the effect that the internet had in bringing isolated people together. There is SO much early 2000s-2010s internet culture that forms the context of western secular people.
that is due to the reverse effect, which is the fact that interaction with people far away in both location and culture can bring up convergent ideas and concept, which opens up to discussion, questions and spectrums, which are anathema to every dogmatic setup, both religious and secular. how many times, between '93 and the '10s have you heard religious voices calling the internet evil? how many times that it was how foreigners use it to vehiculate whatever anti-religious herring it was that quarter? how many, after that, where instructed to jump in random places and just quote random scripture, killing communication in the first place?
I'm atheist and I've never been isolated (I wasn't raised into any religion, neither did most of my friends, even though I'm from Latin America and everyone is supposed to be Catholic), so I can't relate.
@@San_Vito In this context, being isolated is about being separate from other athiests physically and/or culturally. So pre-internet, athiests in latin america wouldn't have much of an opportunity to connect with atheists in the northeast U.S, as an example.
Thousands of atheist dawah sites have sprung up due to atheist prophets chris hitchens, richard Dorkins, Mad Pedolahunty, Commie harris and so on. All of them get a boner for communism and islame, which is only natural, since mao and mupedohammad have a _lot_ in common with pdf file atheists. For example, pdfilia, incest, cannibalism, slavery, torture, genocide.
@@San_Vito Fine, can you explain to me, why do you believe that men can menstruate and give birth, which is the claim of atheist religion, while then you at the same time reject the claim of islame that women can be pregnant for ten years or more? There's zero evidence for either claim, they're both blatant lie. So why choose one huge lie over another huge lie? Is it because atheist religion teaches hypocrasy? dishonesty? deceit? taqqyya?
I'm genuinely grateful to have stumbled into this community as my introduction to atheism. Drew seems to have cultivated a healthier space than some other atheist communities. I feel similarly about Paulogia and r/exChristian
They are definitely part of a second (third? Fourth?) wave of Atheist UA-camrs with a still critical, but much more gentle and (I believe, effective) form of atheist.
I have not been able of posting comment on Paulogia withouth someone trying to argue or condemn me to hell, but that will never stop me form watching them
Mindshift does a very good job too. He's exceptionally analytical and low key. His analysis of the Bible as relates to his deconversion is spot on. Kristi Burke is another lovely, low key account. She goes through the many reasons that contributed to her deconversion. Viced Rhino is quite passionate, and can be pretty snarky. I like him. I sometimes hear some anger at the religion he left for wasting so much of his life. There's also Aron Ra. He can be harsh, but nicely interleaves science into his skepticism. I think it's nice to have a variety of accounts to go to for a broader picture.
These videos have made me realize that being an Atheist primarily because you were not raised with a faith is a bit uncommon, though it will be more and more common as time goes on. For me its not just that my parents were atheist but also just most of my family is either atheist, agnostic, or just doesnt care, the few religious people I am related too live half way across the country and I barely know them. It took me a while to realize people literally believed in the stuff and it confused me really bad, I still remember how baffled I was. I do live in the United States btw so no idea what Europe and Asia are like in that regard.
I was raised mostly without religion in the 70's and 80's. When I was very young (until 3rd grade) my parents tried being Jehovah's Witnesses, but that is all. After that, religion played no part in my life except that my best friend on my street had to stop playing at a certain time to get ready for church. I grew up in San Diego, and nobody talked about religion, not that I remember. I didn't start really thinking about religion until college and only in the last several years have found atheist UA-cam channels. My sister and I have raised our kids without religion and my three kids are at least agnostic, if not atheist. And I have friends who didn't practice any religion with their kids. So yes, it's definitely becoming more common. And I share your bafflement. :D
@@DerpPickles Thats true, I just haven't met anyone really. Though that is true that just because I havent met many people who have similar experiences doesnt meant they arent there. I imagine its really common in other countries espesially.
I was raised without religion in the 60s & 70s. We were definitely a minority. We once stayed in a cabin for vacation. The area had a small playground. I was minding myself swinging on the swingset. A little girl about my age got on another swing. After swapping names, she asked me what church my family went to. Since I'm the world's worst liar, I squeaked out that we didn't go to church. She hopped off the swing, looked back at me and said "Then I can't play with you." and walked away. Nothing like Christian love.
Saying atheist culture exists is a lot like saying "mechanical pencil culture exists". There's a group of people who are really into mechanical pencils, and have strong opinions about them, and have common features like the love of knurled metal grip sections, and even more niche subgroups like people who collect vintage. But these aren't really representative of the vast majority of people who use mechanical pencils. Atheist culture is like that. There's definitely culture among groups who are vocally atheist, but the majority of atheists are just people who don't believe in god, and probably would (at least in the US) identify as agnostic or non religious. They don't participate in anything you could really call "atheist culture"
I was going to comment something similar to this, but I couldn't have done better myself. Most atheists don't care at all, it's only the formerly religious ones that are super militant like the guy from this channel that do.
Atheist cultureS (note the plural) exist, and there are atheist people that aren't part of those cultures. That's the correct assesment of the situation.
No offense but it is logically and seriously inappropriate to refer to Drew as being any sort of militant, about his skepticism; so much moreso to say that he is "super militant". If Drew ever was any degree of "militant" about his god-belief-skepticism, he certainly no longer is. He simply believes that the things he presents, in his videos, are important enough to warrant that presentation. I agree with him on that point. At the same time, I must agree with your point and @TheKartana's point about the notion that the vast majority of atheists are not really involved in any notable "atheist culture" things. At least, that point makes perfect sense to me. But the "super militant" comment, no.@@San_Vito
Totally agree. I'm considerably atheist but out of all the 29 cultural features on the list, I only recognize about a third of them and I can only personally relate to about 2 or 3. These aren't features of "atheist culture" as much as they are features of "a very online, atheism-focused subculture". The video is pretty clear that it's specifically about English-language discourse but I think it could be taken a step further to say that it's specifically about online English-language discourse among those who consider atheism to be a big part of their identity. Cultures that are defined by an internet community tend to be a pretty concentrated subset of the whole culture and doesn't fully represent what people in real life are actually like or their experiences. From my experience this is true of communities surrounding music, gaming, cooking, anime, tech/computers, and even online LGBT spaces. And now atheism as well. The people who are online enough and/or fanatic enough to spend their time forming online cultures around x y or z define the overall culture based on what they've experienced online. That is to say, myself and most of those in my circles are agnostic or atheist and yet I've never heard most of the things on this list even mentioned. I guess I just feel weird when somebody claims to know about features of atheist culture, which I feel like I should relate to, and then it's just a bunch of obscure things that I don't particularly care for.
Fingerless gloves are GREAT if you need to somewhat protect your hands but still need the precise tactility and control of bare fingertips. They don't keep your hands very warm, but they're certainly better than nothing. I find their best use is in bike riding, if you must fiddle with maintenance tasks while outdoors. Second best use, novice glassblowing, especially when working heavy pieces. The heat creeps down the pipe toward your hands. It's better to hear the hiss of wet leather than to feel it on your skin when you're holding up 20 pounds of hot glass at the end of the pipe. Third best use, outdoor guitar playing. The stiction against the guitar neck is a real downside, but you can mitigate it with talcum powder, and the gloves do something to prevent your fingers from becoming stiff and numb.
@@blepwareYou cannot say "edgy glove kid" as an insult when you have a black/ red emo furry profile picture that looks like it was drawn from deviant art in 2011
@@jackjones7620 That wasn't an insult, just a question. Also who the fuck pissed in your cheerios? Plus, you are subscribed to vivziepop. Don't hate on me because you're insecure about who you really are. We get it you're in denial. It's ok bud.
Fourth use, you are cold but your body doesnt know the difference between being comfortably warm and dying from heat exhaustion. (Seriously, for some of us, even in winter it's: stay slightly cold or be sweaty)
Nice list of shared culture. I'm an atheist that wasn't born into and never had a religion. I only have a few atheist friends, but I do notice we share a appreciation of science and skeptical thought, support separation of church and state, and are frustrated at christian nationalism. I do have to sit patiently on the sidelines when they start talking deconstruction, closet stories, and church created trauma as I don't share any of those experiences and can't sympathize at a deeply understanding level.
I had a strained relationship with my dad but one of my favorite things about him was his gift giving. Somehow, you had a 50/50 shot if he got you some goofy ass, clearly last second gift from the dollar store (probably) that you definitely weren't gonna enjoy or use. Or it'd be the best present you opened that year. No in between. It was hilarious. Anyway one year, I think I was like 15-16, he bought me "The God Delusion " It was my favorite gift that Christmas. I know there's a lot of contention around that book but it meant a lot to me. My mom was a Lutheran and raised me in it to appease her family but from a young age I was pretty vocal about hating church and not really believing in it. His buying that book was one of the few times I felt like he actually supported me. Plus of course reading it as an angry teen, I loved it lol. But it'll always hold a special place in my heart.
When I was a kid I got sent to sunday school a few times. The last time I came home in a real bad mood. I was asked what was wrong and I said "It's all bloody lies." The teacher told everyone that a bloke died and then got better. Never went there again.
/r/atheism banned me for "promoting Islam" because I linked /r/AskHistorians threads while attempting to debunk hate speech. That subreddit deserves whatever horrible reputation it has.
The invisible pink unicorn feels sad that you forgot to mention her. She views herself as equal to the FSM and bemoans the fact that people forget about her.
@@archbishoprichardforceginn9338 No one has answered your _important_ questions, so I will: _Which teapot?_ That nice blue one with the fish pattern. You remember. _How much tea was in it?_ Four. Four tea. _Green tea or sassafras?_ Oolong.
Being dragged into a debate or watching two or more people debate is just so stressful for me, drives my anxiety up and negatively affects my mental health. I really hate arguing, and I hate being put into a position where I have to defend myself. I've reached an age now where I just don't engage with people anymore because there are so many people trolling or acting in bad faith that it's not worth my time. I tend to know pretty quickly whether someone I'm talking to is willing to listen to anything I have to say, at which point (if they aren't) I end the conversation and move on.
This is my new favorite video you’ve ever done. It made me smile the whole time. It’s genuinely uplifting to see someone acknowledge and celebrate the culture and community I feel at home in.
About the negative stereotypes... a uni peer of mine once used to be an atheist, and when he was such he was anti-theist. So, after he reconverted back to Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and especially after he politically became an unironic Nazbol, he just assumes all atheists to be anti-theists. When I told him I was atheist, he immediately assumed I was an anti-theist. Despite, you know, me willingly, sometimes even enthusiastically, celebrating at least formally religious holidays with family, relatives and acquaintances. It says more about him than about me, I think.
with holidays, it's not so weird to keep on celebrating. When we look back at how Christianity spread. christian holidays were plastered on pagan celebrations winter solstice. beggining of spring time of harvest. All kinds of fectivals and celebrations of nature and survival.
Yeah as a former atheist I can say from experience that I went through a time when I believed that all atheists were similar to how I was when I was an atheist. Thankfully that’s changed and I have a more nuanced and open minded view of atheists as a people.
Your nickname as the Mister Rogers of atheists is well earned! I believe that it is only by keeping one's stance gently neutral that we ever hope to show opponents and doubters that our own positions and beliefs (whatever they may be) are not destructive, evil, or other negative connotations those doubters may hold in their hearts and minds. Thank you for all you do.
As someone born and raised in eastern germany (apparently the most atheist place in the world), its hard to grasp that there are people in the west who are still that much into religion and even hostile towards atheists sometimes.
In the US, atheists are very discriminated against. If you are running for office and an atheist, you better keep your atheism quiet. Very few people who are atheist get elected to office here.
I wanna shout out specifically James Randi for setting me up on the right path early in life with his talks and teaching so much about skepticism and charlatanism, something that made me join health care industry and help protect people against predatory ideas and institutions.
It's something I never thought about, but as a queer/trans athiest my "coming out" process for atheism was surprisingly similar to my coming out as trans. Interesting to think about
Only one side of my family accepted me as an atheist , but I'm still in the closet about being trans cuz I know none would accept me . I tried , but all my HUGE hints always ends with be getting extremely frustrated with myself Idk I guess I just felt like sharing as you also shared a part of your experience- Anyways , I hope your day is being wonderful just like u ;) 💕💕
@@S.I.U. I feel that, coming out in any respect is difficult. Ensuring your own safety is of course more important than anything else, one trans individual to another I believe in you 🏳⚧✨
My Mum was worried I'd become protestant when my dad and her decided not to indoctrinate their kids (she is Catholic). She raised 2 atheists instead - thank God!!
I only came out as trans and gay. I was raised secular, so I didn't have to handle that bit. Honestly, I think people had a more difficult time understanding that I'm gay. I think because a lot of people still think trans men are just really butch lesbians.
would you say they were somewhat equally hard/challenging for others to accept and to speak about it openly? or there is no point of comparison in that regard. I am curious.
what people mean by "atheists have no culture" is that "atheist culture" would be akin to "religious culture" by that the only thing the group has in common is whether they believe in (a) god(s) or not
Sort-of, but not quite. Practicing a specific religion requires you to perform certain rituals, read certain scripture, learn specific prayers, meet other believers on a daily basis etc. this all leads to the development of a common culture in a way atheism does not because it doesn't require you to do any of these things.
@@igorbednarski8048 I meant that there are many different religions which all have a different culture, so there is not one single "religious culture", and similarly, atheism encompasses many different cultures as well, so there is not one single "atheist culture"
I was on the board of Secular Student Alliance and worked for American Humanist Association and this is spot on. I kinda had to figure this all out as someone who was not your typical "four horseman" atheist but an outsider who kinda found my own path through reading existentialist philosophy in the 1990s
One interesting thing I find myself pondering is this idea of agnostic/gnostic atheism. Agnostic in a way makes the statement that "with the appropriate evidence, I would change my mind". I initially thought that's the group I belonged in, but then I went through the exercise "what sort of evidence would I need to accept something as supernatural rather than wonder how the trick is done?" . It led me down a rabbit hole, to the eventual conclusion that given my stance on intellectual curiosity, it'd be an abdication of it for me to accept something I observe as supernatural, rather than wondering what the underlying explanation is, even if something seems supernatural or magical. Applying the idea of "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" would always end me in a state where I wouldn't think it's magic, only science/technology I don't yet understand. Therefor, uncomfortably, perhaps that'd make me a gnostic atheist, because despite the principle of being willing to change my mind with appropriate evidence being true, there's not really anything evidence can do to persuade me that something doesn't have a non-supernatural explanation that just requires further digging, because at no point am I willing to abdicate my curiosity and accept that there's no greater understanding that'd explain this, so I'll just keep looking for that indefinitely if need be, if I were to observe evidence of something that seems supernatural on the surface. I wonder if anyone else has gone down this line of reasoning, and realized that they're too curious to know how the trick is done to accept anything that appear supernatural as anything but an insufficient understanding of science/technology. And if you did go down this path, do you also come to the conclusion that it's incompatible with being an agnostic atheist, since there's no evidence that exists that'd change your mind, thus making you 100% certain from a certain perspective?
This is why I don't like the term "supernatural". If something exists then it must be explainable by the laws of nature. If something that we characterize as "supernatural" exists then our understanding of the laws of nature is incorrect/incomplete.
Well it Actually depends on philosophy... a lot, because the foundationnof science its made taking certaint things as axioms and then building on them, if you are a materialist, sure you can go that way, but we need to remember that again, its build around philosophy, for example, science relates how everything work and its actually Factual? Or it is our best aproximation to understanding certain things? If the second one its true. Then, you can find Theist arguments really easily, because not everything its proven in the same way, for example, how we think or why are we here? We could answer that, and we could argue that some answer its better than other, but we cant apply science to it. If there exist something super natural it doesnt meant that the natural world its incomplete. Its just means that its a closed System or that it in fact depend on some external maintainer, that we coulc call God, but that made the universe in a way that it could get really grounded rules, it like creating a videogame. The developer can interact with that world, can make changes, etc. But he isnt part of the game. But he can make a system that has a strong set of define rules perfect for it
I think that it is grounded in a deep need in the human heart for searching truth, if God exist or not, its a realy big question, Because if he exist, it changes everything, as well has if he doesnt, because any answer has a lot of consequences, I myself would like to invite you to search for the best framework that suits you, I would argue that as humans we maybe cant find Absolute truth, but not because we cant find it, means that it doesnt exist. At the end, if God exist, we are finite beings studying the infinite. I know that this is an atheist channel, but i really recommend searching in Christianity, you can look at others religions obviusly, at the end if we care about religion and truth we want to follow truth, and that could be in the Quran or Budism, but in the end i really think that Christianity is the best and most beautiful framework for searching Truth, and that God reveal itself throught Christ. But at the end, the decision its on you. There are really a lot of beauty in religion, and a lot of good apologist. And religion doesnt need to be actually irrational it can have depper meaning if you search enought, specially outside of some fundamentalist groups. I Encourage you in a deep Christian love to search for Truth, wherever it takes you. But dont forget that your life has a meaning, what you do to others matter and that if you believe something. Even if you disagree with someone, as Humans we need to take care of others, and listen to each one. I really love God and i know that faith is hard but its worth it... Good Luck in your Journey. And God bless you.
@@weaponizedpizza8825 Well, there isnt a rigid structure of the definition among theist everyoments, thats why we argue that at the same time God its not the same god in diferent religions, because we are talking about diferent definitions usually, even then, thats why we have apologetics developement between diferent faiths, because we declare a basic definition between religions, and then we argue later about the details about that God and what means from one God to be true, that what theology, apologetics, and religion is for, understanding God and the metaphysics and meaning or not meaning of our existance. Now, lets clarify, that a not clear definition about something means it isnt true, or dont exist, it just means that we need to clarify the definition before we start to talk and argue about something, for example, what is life? The biologist has a diferent aproach to this question than a philosopher or a mathematician, what is a number? Everything is build around definitions, but that doesnt make that thinks least probable, or fake, or true, that question is rooted in philosophy and the meaning of what we say, how we think and how a think is prove to be true. In the instance of God and is existance, one could argue that, if our definition of it change between times, how can we be certain of his existance? if our knowledge and understanding of Him grows with time, its not because he is incomplete or doesnt exist or because he changes ( That would change our vision about a lot of arguments and theological thought) but because he is revealing around time, in the same way that as a toddler you learn the basics about math, and with time you can go to calculus or more abstract math, it helps us to understanding it more, the same with Christianity and other religions and thats why we have Church history and Creeds
I get your point and that's fine, but there is a difference between there being an "atheist culture," which is really just a natural development of atheists talking to each other, and an atheist `worldview.` This is where it gets murky. Truth is: The only thing I can tell about a person who I know nothing about other than them being an atheist, is they do not believe in gods. *Everything else* is speculative BS.
true, though in some way I feel like that thanks to the internet there COULD be a time in the future, were an atheistic worldview actually has developed, due to people sharing ideas and building basically a consensus on so many concepts, that it can count as worldview. We will see if that happens
@@hannajung7512 There already are. We just call them secular. Secular Humanism and the Church of Satan are both atheist worldviews. It's not that there isn't or can't be worldviews under the umbrella of atheism. It's that atheism, just like theism is a broad label that merely denotes whether a person does or does not believe in a god or gods. My issue is the lumping of all atheists together into one solidified worldview. It would be like saying Hindus and Jews believe exactly the same thing, simply because they are both theists.
I will say that I’ve only ever engaged with a fraction of the features presented in this video. As you said, “culture is the product of those who identify with a group” and I think (although this is anecdotal) that a significant majority of atheists barely exhibit or engage with any of these features. Thus I think that atheist culture is incredibly dilute within the general population, while more fervent and active atheists definitely share a much stronger culture.
I would argue that the (vast) majority of atheists is not, in fact, a group but just a collection of unconnected individuals and as such does not have a culture. At least not in their identity as atheists. Just like non-stamp-collectors don't have a culture and aren't a group.
Ex-atheist here. I always thought of Fedora Tippers as their own thing, a cringe thing amplified by online exposure, and not explicitly associated with atheism, just a certain blip of internet millennials. Like hipsters, but usually less groomed and healthy. If anything, I associate them more with Magic the Gathering players than Atheists, lol, but I guess there's some overlap in the Millennial generation. Not sure how your video came to my feed, btw, but I thoroughly enjoyed revisiting some of this stuff.
The generous reading of "atheists don't have a culture" is that there are many atheists who may have at most a vague awareness of only some of these things. Many of these relate to skeptics and anti-theists (or people leaning in that direction). I'd probably say that most atheists don't identify with any of these things, but those aren't the people you hear anything about, on account of them never talking about their atheism and them never engaging with content about atheism. Among atheists who have some identification with these things, there are still vast differences in how they interact with others, what their values are, any sort of behaviours or practices, etc. So there's a question here of when it's reasonable to say "X has a culture".
I consider Brian cox the spiritual successor to Sagan. His empathetic and kind approach is so similar, whereas I find NDT more brash, loud and confidence bordering cockiness. I like NDT fine, but Brian Cox I personally look up to a lot.
I agree. NDT has great ideas and says great things, but his attitude is off. It feels like he's trying to be the next Carl Sagan... which I guess is fine. He just doesn't quite have the humility. It doesn't feel totally sincere.
NDT is a great communicator, but is often a pedantic tool and has a messy history to say the least. Brian Cox or Brian Greene are my favorite scientist communicators.
@@AdamTheJensen He sometimes makes the mistake of smart people commenting on things that are outside their purview. He did this once about the whole A.D. vs C.E. difference.
Honestly... I don't think there is any replacing Sagan. The man had just class and was maybe blessed by the internet not existing like today, no twitter or youtube to post random takes, so everything he said was carefully written. NDT has said some dumb stuff
For me fedora tippers were always more associated with manosphere kind of things ("meninists"/MRA's, MGTOW, pick-up "artists", incels, etc.) as well as alt-right, but of course there is a niche group of atheists, particularly some who managed to get really popular for a while on UA-cam, who fit all three groups, so I suspect some sort of transfer of stereotypes between the groups through that (very visible) niche.
I always thought that satanists should dress as chaos cultists and react very insulted when they are called satanic and one should do the “Magnus the red explains chaos” talk from the “What if the emperor had a text to speech device” series. The next time they should dress as Jedi and Sith and have a mock battle with “Dual of the faites” blasting from speakers.
Interesting vid. Made me subscribe Your channel. Fun fact: this was the first time, I heard the expression "Fedora tipper". But: around 40 years ago, reaching the age of 16, I went to the local "Einwohnermeldeamt" (kind of a registration office), to seal my "Kirchenaustritt" (leaving the church). Right after that, I spent most of the birthday gift money in a clothing store on a black Trenchcoat and a Fedora. Until today, I did not realize, that there maybe was a casual connection between these two incidents....
See, I can't tell if your position is "Lockdowns should have been stricter, J6 was the worst thing since the early to mid twentieth century" or "Covid overreach was such bs, J6 was just another mostly peaceful protest."
An explanation of the "fedora" thing: First of all, let me say that I have done no research; this is my personal recollection of events as an atheist who is about a decade older than GMS. The fedora, in the 21st century, is anachronistic. It calls back to a time in the distant past depicted in noir films, and this fictionalized version of the past is what it's most associated with. Because of this, it became the hallmark of a certain kind of terminally online misogynist who wanted return to traditional masculinity in the days where Men were Men and women were hot babes that want to sleep with the male protagonist of a detective story. Meanwhile, the "new atheist" movement was under way. There was some overlap between these two groups, because some atheists are assholes too. Then, in 2014-15, gamergate happened. In online culture, a bunch of people pivoted from atheist/skeptic content towards actively misogynist gamergate content. This led a kind of movement. Suddenly, the fedora, the sign of the misogynist, was associated with atheism and skepticism. It might have died down after a while, but around the same time, a very powerfully cringe post was posted to r/atheism. You know the one - about being euphoric and enlightened. Someone slapped this quote on a picture of a little-known actor tipping a fedora, and it went so fucking viral that the idea of fedoras being associated with cringe atheism has not died in the decade since. So that's why fedoras are an atheist thing.
Well written. Sounds about right. Just for fun: The name "Fedora" is actually that of a princess in a play (or something like that). She wore a Trilby hat, and her name got transferred to the hat. (I can't be bothered to check right now.)
As one who enjoys the not so meaningless skit in the middle, I'd say its the joy and love that can be felt between you and Taylor. It's wonderful to hear people who respect and appreciate each other interact. Keep adding them in, they make someone of us very happy to share in a small part your joy.
I really appreciate this video! Knowing Community and resources to learn, and to grow is so key for those entering the atheist space. Over correcting to say that atheist have no culture or shared beliefs, can be super difficult to those leaving an organized religion, and I think it actually backfires into keeping people in that religion. Knowing that there is community and love and shared identity beyond leaving the core group helped me to enter into an unknown space. I’ve heard people offer resources to those struggling, but in practicality it is hard to find those groups. Thank you so much for providing the ideas, groups, and surgical terms that will help all of us to grow. You truly are a treasure and my favorite UA-camr. I really feel like you understand the side of leaving a religion and not just angrily debating in videos. Some of us just want community and to better understand this side of life and we don’t want to always fight everything we see.
See this is why I don't call myself an atheist or even Agnostic really, I don't like religion period, and I just googled it and apparently it's called "Apatheist" didn't even know that was a thing, but I definitely fall under the words definition. "The attitude of apathy toward the existence or non-existence of God. It is more of an attitude rather than a belief, claim, or belief system"
Interesting. I usually just say that many atheists don't care about religion or deity-related topics/debates because they simply live their lives not thinking about them, since all it means to be an atheist is to not believe in a god. No claim or belief is required for being an atheist. This means I would consider even those who somehow haven't thought about whether or not gods exist atheists, but, maybe that isn't right? I don't know.
Some of the fedora tipping fingerless gloves is a result of younger people raised withiut religion basically being like yourself, and saying, "no kidding there is no god...why are you spending so much time railing against it?" I'm very hopeful for future generations where atheism doesn't need to be a thing.
You've not escaped anything. Literally nobody knows what that term means. But as soon as it catches on, be sure to get misunderstood and stereotyped. It's ridiculous avoiding labels altogether all bcoz of this.
@@Celsiusing someone who hasn't given a thought to the existence of gods would be an implicit atheist, not an apatheist. An apatheist has given it a thought and decided they don't care.
Excellent video. As a septuagenarian, who was a firm nonbeliever in her teens, (except for that whole “afterlife” thing. I was raised Catholic!), I’ve been a skeptic for decades. I have longed for a culture. A shared group experience. This video is so well presented that it has given me something to think about. I’ll knit you a cardigan, Drew. (It may be a while before you receive it, though. I’ll have to learn how to knit first). BTW: my favorite piece of atheist literature is the beginning of the book “Beam Me Up, Jesus”, by S. D. Golden. Cracks me up.
I was extremely skeptical about your stance on the atheist culture equation. I even waited to like your video…but you totally convinced me! Damn it! We do have a culture! 🤣😂🤣 Great job! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I don’t blame conservative atheists for being nervous about expressing their views. Here’s hoping other conservative groups become nervous about it, too!
I can almost view religious conservatives more favorably. They're brainwashed to believe in eternal torment if they don't follow the tenants of their religion. That's sympathetic. Believing abortion is bad with no scientific proof, and to argue women should have their right to choose taken away? Either you're a misogynist, or you let your emotions control you without being willing to do research. Either way, I have significantly less respect for those people. At the very least, I don't want to share spaces with the kind of people who would willingly choose to hurt the people I care about based on beliefs that can't be proven scientifically. I hope conservative Atheists' continue to feel unwelcome for as long as they hold their harmful opinions. I couldn't care less that they feel isolated or without community. Simply just get better opinions then, hopefully ones backed up by scientific fact and not their knee-jerk feelings.
Really great video, as always. The only issue I had was the word "culture" itself. I feel like these are more "community signifiers" than a proper "culture." This is in part because of some of the things you touched upon. Atheists are inherently fragmented because our arrival at atheism, current beliefs and behaviors are so varied. My experience as a Unitarian (who I legitimately did not know were considered Christian at all despite attending Sunday school regularly from Kindergarten until middle school) is very different than my ex-Mennonite and Jehovah's Witnesses friends who were excommunicated and have no contact with their families. There's no unified set of beliefs, art or practices that we gather around, despite your examples of some we could. I also watched the evolution of the UA-cam atheist in real time. I didn't need deconstruction, i was just there to laugh at the dumb things theists said, especially young earth creationists. The Reddit style was definitely dominant. A lot of those people have left UA-cam, but many took a hard right turn. The only thing i feel like i have in common with that crowd is atheism. No other beliefs or cultural touchstones. I would not welcome many of them into ANY community i would be a part of. The dominant versions of racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia used to be "because my god said so" and a lot if early UA-cam atheism was showing thier bigotry. These folks are claiming to be "rationalist" atheists and try to justify those bigotries without religion, which is simply awful and gross to me. I already replied to someone else's comment naming Paulogia. I feel like you two (and some others) are definitely in the Mr. Rogers of atheism vein. You're not here to mock, you're here to honestly engage as former Christians, yet many Christians will still try to tar you with the Fedora stereotype. Still a great video, and i do think you are spot-on. This is a tiny not-pick with a specific word, and nothing more. Keep it up!
@@TheLetterJ-c8n I don't know which part you're referring to. The only thing I'm disagreeing with the video about is the use of the word "culture" specifically as I just don't think it's an appropriate descriptor for the things atheists do share. If you're talking about the bigotry, that's a totally different discussion.
A culture is a way of life. Atheists share many behaviors and ways of life. Atheist culture is a thing. I understand your fear but that's no reason to dodge this.
@@pythondrink it's not fear, it's that I literally have a degree in Cultural Geography so I'm a stickler about the term, that's all. Even with all these examples (which are great, really) I just don't think it rises to the level of "culture" the way, say Hawaiian Culture, Chinese Culture (which is hugely varied, and like a semester's worth of class just to scratch the surface) or even Christian Culture. I actually would say that pinning down Christian Culture would be difficult like this. It would make much more sense to talk about Protestant Culture, Catholic Culture and Evangelical Culture. Way more shared experience/food/dance/music/ritual among each of those than Atheist Culture. I see atheism as a "community" in some ways but not a "culture," yet. I'm not saying it can't be someday, it just isn't now. I am totally willing to admit that this could be considered academic pedantry, but it's how I see it.
@@pythondrink I really don't think atheists share many "behaviors" or "ways of life." As he pointed out, we don't even share a specific belief! That's a diverse community, but only "culture" in the loosest sense.
On screen names, I would consider them part of the broader 'mostly online culture', which happens to overlap with Atheism. It's very common to have a chosen name for mostly anonymous spaces, and then still use that name in other spaces. Completely independent of atheism I call one of my best friends Cho. I've known him and his real name for over a decade. It's still most natural to refer to him as the guy who only plays Cho'gath in League of Legends, and we barely even play the game these days.
Hey, I need some advice. I am a 15 yr old atheistic agnostic at a very Christian high school. I have mentioned my disbelief to my close friends and some trusted teachers but the word has gotten out that I am demonspawn and I don’t know how to respectfully argue or defend myself and my beliefs without seeming hostile or stupid. Do you already have one or can you make a video about debate techniques or ways to just stop the conversation? Or does anyone in the comments have any tips or helpful video suggestions? It would really help me out.
Funny, you started it, looking for a fight by attacking their beliefs & now yer all "they don't like me, wah wah wah". Just STFU. Or go to another school.
If you're looking for general communication or debate advice I'm not sure how much you'll find from atheism channels since that isn't usually what they focus on. For something a bit more general I'd recommend TheraminTrees, and maybe more specifically his playlist 'manipulative behavior.' It doesn't tackle religion or Christianity specifically but it addresses some of the bad arguments people resort to. Channels like Mindshift on UA-cam also have material that might help. Specifically his video 'how to come out as an atheist' and 'you've deconverted, now what' kind of touch on these topics. Mindshift and Kristi Burke both have pretty thought-out deconversion videos on more and less specific aspects of Christianity and the Bible. As a disclaimer, I'm not a deconvert so I can't attest to how helpful these are from personal experience, but I found them to try to look at these things with calmness and understanding. And sorry if my suggestions were not at all what you were looking for.
I would personally suggest refraining from engaging with the conversation simply because it may not be safe or conductive. I don't think a Christian high-school is the place to prove yourself in. Unfortunately, I don't have any advice outside of keeping your head low, that's what I did.
As a born and raised Chinse, I even did not know there were religious groups in modern society. So you can imagine how shocked I was when I was approached by a Jehovah's Witness in the Netherlands for the first time.
And yet, The Netherlands is a really atheïstic country, here basically nobody cares or even talks about this subject in daily life. But there are still plenty of theïsts and believers.
@@mimszanadunstedt441 and the other half believes that "sufficiently" pandering _to_ the insane half with _another_ layer of kid gloves will solve fuck-all...
As someone from austria (the mozart and arnie country) I never "came out" as an atheist, I just was. Your channel was actually the first time I heard about that as a concept. That was back when I lacked the terminology to express my atheism to other people. I left the church as soon as I could, because theism never sounded plausible to me (plus because of the mandatory church tax we had to pay 😅)
I think it’s so interesting that, from my personal experience, this self designation of atheist (and especially identifying with and engaging with atheist culture) really tends to flourish in places where religiosity is the default, or with people who were born into religion and subsequently left that religion. My friend is from China and has lived in the US for 6 years now, and when we were discussing each others cultural background she seemed perplexed that I called myself an “atheist” and that, by US standards, she and almost everyone she knows back in China are atheists, too. Similarly, my friends who were born into atheist families tend to call themselves atheists, but are pretty apathetic about the whole thing. They don’t really think about their atheism or engage with the community much (of course, these are huge generalizations). Meanwhile, I grew up in Lutheranism and leaving the religion was a hugely personal journey for me and the atheist community on UA-cam really helped me work through that time in my life, and I still consider myself a part of the community. Proximity breeds contempt? or whatever. I don’t really have anywhere in going with this lol
Great observations! You’re definitely on to something here. This was my thesis for my “8 Types of Atheists in US Culture” video. “If you live in a context where doing, thinking, and being a certain thing is common enough, then NOT doing, thinking, and being that certain thing inevitably becomes a thing of its own. If the context is right, the negation of an identity can become its own identity.”
Great point and can be applied to other things like race. Racism is ingrained in certain cultures, while other cultures don't care about race at all - they fight about other things. @@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic
I understand why you would narrow the focus to the Anglosphere in your analysis, but I think it also makes it much easier for you to make a case for the existence of an atheist culture, since all these people already share a somewhat unifying Anglo culture. There are just as many, if not more, atheists in other parts of the world who identify with very few elements of the purported atheist culture that is mostly based on stereotypes that originated elsewhere.
I think Hitch actually said 'I leave it to the faithful to burn each other's churches and mosques and synagogues, which they can be always relied upon to do'.
7% of all wars in recorded history have been religious. Rest have been political or territorial. These are 123 wars (7%) out of the 1763. The number drops to 4% if you exclude all Islamic wars.
@@Altusfonzthis is complete bullshit 😂 those "political" wars were still based entirely upon some rich white Christian man who thinks God chose HIM specifically to rule the world. Hitler was a Catholic. And you're telling me everything the Roman CATHOLIC church did wasn't religious? 😂 The inquisition? The war in Iraq and Afghanistan was SUPPOSEDLY over religion, and you know every white boy Christian soldier was out there to "annihilate Islam"
:0 where do you get these numbers from? How is it quantified what motivation is behind a war? What about if a war might be seen as political AND religious? How do you delineate what one war is, rather than breaking it up into littler wars, or smooshing otherwise distinct wars together? And what about the “magnitude” of each war, like other stuff such as duration, size of the area on which it takes place, size of the armies, size of the belligerents, size of the armies proportional to the belligerents’ whole forces, etc?
@@Altusfonz As has been said already, it's completely impossible to separate the religious aspects from the political ones from, at the very very least, most of history.
I tend to refer to myself as a spiritually inclined non-theist rather than an atheist or agnostic. The "spiritual" bit for me relates to the wonder and reverence I feel for the amorphous nature of relationships and interconnectedness we share with each other and the physical world around us.
I'm a weird Atheist. I'm an engineer and physicist. I have zero faith in any religion and can be best summed up as a Cosmic Nihilist. And yet I wake up every morning and listen to Bart Erhman or other Christian history videos. (Sometimes by actual scholarly apologist) I'm slowly building an entire bookshelf of books on the Bible and have read most of them. Like... I'm obsessed with Christian history like most people are obsessed with Greek Mythology.
I don't think that's weird at all for an atheist. I'm also a physicist and regularly listen to Bart Ehrman and Religion for Breakfast because like all cultures and traditions humans manifest, religion is fascinating. It's also good practice to be informed with an opponent's arguments.
I have finally resorted to repeated, patient response of "My personal beliefs are very private to me" and if pressed with the yeah-but-you-believe-in...I say "my personal beliefs are very private to me and not up for your curiosity"
I think you might have just Dropped an "atheist guide" for me, a new atheist because I hadn't heard of some people and Ideas mentioned here and would very much love to explore them all.. Thank you GM!
Sweden is fun, a place American christians should visit, mostly atheist but with a great acceptance for religions and have christianity as a part of the culture for it is a part of our history, I am an atheist from Sweden that have read the bible, and can go to church for weddings and so, and I am a member of the church to preserve and keep historical buildings open.
Given the obscene amount of "real" taxes are spent on the upkeep of the buildings, you shouldn't be giving the Church anything, the cultural heritage is well taken care of. Your church fee (we aren't allowed to call it tax anymore) goes to salaries and the Church of Sweden's administration, as well as upkeep of some artifacts. But you are free to do as you please, but paying for building upkeep is the one thing the fees doesn't do. That money comes from the state.
Finland as well! Even when christianity is a state religion, you really don't see religion anywhere outside some public holidays. Religion as a school subject is non-denominational (and can be opted-out), you don't see crosses anywhere (at homes, worn), no-one uses religious sayings (bless you, god forbit etc.) and it's very impolite to talk about religious issues or one's aligment at all. Even when over 50% of people are officially christians, they just voluntary pay church tax and that's it. It's not perfect, as all companies have to pay church tax and it's really difficult to have a loved one buried to anywhere else than to a christian semetary. In a way, it's easy to breather here!
I would much prefer to live where Christianity is more of a cultural tradition than my country, a country where Christianity is a an active political force people are using to control our lives. Sigh.
I recognise the Atheist A from an old brazilian youtube channel called EuAteu (roughly translated, AtheistMe). It was definitely his logo - but I have no idea if he got it from somewhere else or the other way around. He was definitely a big deal tho, he used to open all his videos with "Hi, I'm Iuri and I'm an atheist." which was incredibly taboo at the time in this country (and honestly kinda still is) and was the first widely popular atheist here. He also later helped found atheist movements with other youtubers and I think he got involved in international projects too since he lived overseas. He has since kinda vanished but he was a big deal for a long time.
Drew - My wife and I would be an interesting study to look at. We are both atheists and politically progressive, but while I have immersed myself in the atheist culture online, she has not. I have read Dawkins, Harris, Sagan, and others. I watch many UA-cam atheists, joined the American Humanists, and blogged as an atheist on the Daily Kos spin-off "Street Prophets" when it first launched. But when I mention Dawkins, Harris, Forrest Valkai, Matt Dillahunty, Emma Thorne, Steven Woodford, you, Alex O'Connor, the Atheist Experience, The Line, the problem of evil, Kalam, pre-sup, biblical contradictions, etc., my wife has no idea what I am talking about. I was raised Catholic and went through de-conversion. She was raised non-religious, and doesn't have any of that baggage. She knows the Darwin Fish and Flying Spaghetti Monster through me, but she doesn't know the teapot, the invisible pink unicorn, or the puddle. She knows Kirk Cameron went crazy creationist with some mustachioed guy. So, while I would identify with a lot of the things you talked about in this video, she would barely know any of them.
Why is that hair flip at 37:30 so funny? 😂 On New Atheists, as the internet saying goes: A New Atheist is just any old atheist that the Church cannot legally set on fire anymore.
Thanks Drew. My father resented the religious upbringing his mother forced on him. And promised he would never put that on his kids. This was a huge conflict between him and his mother. But he shielded my brother and me from her. He never spoke good or ill about religion. Basically never talked about it at all. So i had no religious teachings or indoctrination and have no memory of ever believing. I just always saw religion for the nonsince it is. The few time i did attend church with my grandmother i remember looking around and thinking, seriously, no way these people can believe this. Coming out and deconversion stories sound horrible. But also strange and alien to me.
You sort of touched on it but half the reason you get so much pushback is it is far too broad a grouping to be useful. Trying to come up with a overall atheist culture is like trying to come up with a unified theist culture. It is like trying to group Evangelical Christian snake handlers with Shinto priests and trying to come up with cultural touchstones that applies to both of them and everyone in between. Even limiting it to just English speaking North American atheists is still like trying to group the Mormons with the Catholics.
i loved this video so much. i think this one is one of the best videos you made. as a Turkish atheist, I believe most young atheists here too are familiar with the things you've listed. we also have Turkish influencers probably all young atheists know. Such as Evrim Ağacı (which also debunked "Sözler Köşkü" like you and have millions of views) or Efe Aydal (I learned about Dawkins because of him.) anyways, great video.
Couple of points about the video: 1. When you said the LATE James Randi, I thought I misheard you and rushed to rewind the video. Unfortunately I didn’t mishear you, and extra unfortunately you were correct. I can’t believe he died in 2020! I’m sure a huge fan of his and I find this out now?! 4 years later??? I loved watching his debunking videos, very entertaining. I guess with all that was going on in 2020, this just slipped my mind. I’m saddened to hear this, but I guess what brings some comfort is knowing he lived a long life, and inspired and entertained a ton of people. 2. The random Olive Garden review was out of nowhere, and I loved it! It’s a nice little distraction. Honestly, I thought you were about to do an ad break, so I’m happy it wasn’t that. Also, it was quite entertaining, so I’m all for more of them, especially in longer (and more serious) videos. 3. Overall, great video! I’ve never really thought about ‘atheist culture’ but you made some good points. I guess it does make sense for some type of culture or community to build up when enough people believe in something (or lack thereof in this case). I didn’t realize this, but since we’re in similar age groups, I’ve actually listened to a lot of the same content as you. That was interesting to learn.
I've always referred to this as "skeptic culture" there's an important distinction there. The problem with saying atheists have a culture is that, for example, budists are atheist, do they share in all these cultural elements? What about people who were raised atheist and have never given a thought to the possibility of a god?
@@Username78537It's complicated. The video is not endorsing anything. But the catch is that we can be influenced by these cultures even without our knowledge, just like how the wordings of notions used by ex-muslims and ex-christians still contain the influence of their religion. Influence, pain, trauma, pleasure, etc all exists outside of binaries
As a European and a history student I find that your approach to this topic has been a little restricted. It was interesting of course but to someone's who's first language is not English all the while coming from a country who is in majority atheist, it feels as though the focus on America is a little counterintuitive especially considering the reality of atheistic presence in the world. Maybe the focus was meant to be America ! But in any case I find that the european and asian cases are more interesting and fondational to the birth and development of atheistic thought. The American atheist community might be the biggest one in the future, as I believe it is the one displaying the most growth, but it isn't the biggest in the world today, by a longshot. I think that secularism also has a fascinating history especially in regards to how it developped alongside republican ideals and principles all over Europe. The communist atheism is also interesting. There is just much, much more to this culture than what I've seen in this video. The fight against the power of the church is also particularly interesting in catholic countries in which the rupture from the faith and church was enacted BY atheistic republicans, and not by protestants or kings that appointed themselves holy leaders. The "cult of reason" once inhabited the halls of Notre-Dame of Paris, during the revolution. The Enlightenment is none other than a metaphor for reason bringing light in a world of obscurantist faith and superstition... TLDR : American atheists really aren't as big (yet) as European or Asian atheists and also, they haven't played as big a historical role in the development of atheism.
It's so awesome to read about the European experience with Atheism. It really is different in the US/Canada because Christianity is just SO BIG here. I am super jealous of people in countries with majority Atheist because it affects human rights so significantly as well. We have the stupidest debates about things that most Europeans would see as obvious and question why it's so controversial. For example, I left a comment on a Taylor Swift analysis video and expressed my opinion about her religious references and suggested she may not even be Christian anymore but can't come out because it would be so detrimental to her image. Someone replied and said something like "It's not controversial or taboo to be atheist!". I'm like... you're not American, are you? lol 😹 It can be frustrating living in North America with this stupid stuff.
I agree. The specific atheist submovement that Skeptic is talking about emerged relatively recently (1970s) primarily in the US as a synthesis between a consumer protection movement based around scientific skepticism and a reaction to the ultra conservative reaction to changes in American education to compete with the USSR. I honestly don't think it's had a huge impact on atheist thought as a whole but it certainly had an impact on how people engage with ideas online. It's worth cataloging and tracking its history at least. Something a bit annoying about this video is that it's presented in a way where the timeline of these events is not clear.
@@moonbeam0099 I think an interesting fact is that the American elite is much less religious than the American people. At least that was certainly true of the American revolution, as most of the founding fathers were not Christians but Deists, which is associated as one of the major first steps towards atheism.
@@PunishedFelix Right. I agree the rivalry with the USSR made the US more ritually religious and even delonstratively pious. That's when the hand on the Bible was implemented and that's also when religion started being associated to nationalism more directly. Christian nationalism is also absurd simply because of the fact that the founding fathers of the American nation were deists, not christians.
Not claiming to have a culture is less of a defense against these things being projected onto them, and more so literally the atheist denying theistic conjectures about their beliefs. We do not assume a Thai teenager who shares not in their cultures beliefs to have any of these aspects beyond simply what the word *atheist* implies - that they hold no belief in a supernatural system. The same would apply to a Thai teenager who is a theist - we do not assume them to be a follower of an Abrahamic denomination simply on account of their theism, or to have a sky daddy, etc.
Great video! It still feels awkward for those that don't spend any time thinking about it (up to not wanting to be identified by theistic designation) or perhaps it's exaggerating the "no atheist culture" because it lacks visibility or any organized persuasion still. Also, on a pedantic note, this comes down to most examples being anti-theism or some aim, that strictly speaking, atheism is not any kind of belief or culture, like an non-stamp collector. It might be in this last example, involving a dispute about the meaning of "athiest" where the main contention is.
There's communities of atheists which have a culture. But that is the culture of those communities, not atheists as a whole which do in fact not have a culture for the exact reason non-stamp-collectors don't; any such culture would just be general human culture, not anything specific to atheists.
@@Llortnerof exactly, bingo. It's a moot and pedantic note though, since we can't really call it anything else either. Atheist culture it is, (even if it technically it isn't).
@@pythondrink I'd give you mine but I didn't keep any physical books when I escaped America. I mostly read on Kindle now. That said, that book was so popular you can probably find a used hardback cheap on eBay or similar.
I think it's more accurate to call it Atheistic Cultures rather than to lump them all together as a singular culture. Even amongst English speakers, I don't really ascribe myself to specific types like the "Amazing Atheist" whose early misogyny really kind of outed that sort of right-wing atheism out early to me.
Oh wow! I've been atheist for a few years and I didn't recognize well over half of the culture points that you brought up. That is so fascinating to me - I really feel like I have kind of been missing out on a community that exists. All this time there were all these organizations, and community events and conferences and I had no idea. That might not have been the intent of the video, but thank you, Drew! Drew!
Been an atheist for less than 2 years and I was already familiar with every single damn thing mentioned in this video. I guess I'm that committed. I mean, it's entertaining.
I've been an atheist all my life and didn't know at least half - if not most - of the info in this video. A lack of belief in something can just mean it's not something you pay any attention to.
I am glad it all exists, though. I can imagine that someone who used to be a member of a religious community could feel pretty lost when they leave that community. It's also good to have so much support when they live in an area where they're ostracized for their beliefs.
I've been an atheist for 38 years (my whole life) and I didn't know of most of the stuff of these video. We're not a community nor a culture. Maybe militant atheists like Drew make up a subculture, but that's it.
That Olive Garden segment was adorable and now I want to take my wife on a date there. So thanks for that. Also, Spamalot is currently having a revival run on Broadway and it's awesome! My wife and I went to the very first show on Halloween and I got a hoodie that says "Always look on the bright side of life" on the back. Haha I highly recommend seeing it if you visit NYC while it's still on stage.
I think perhaps the response is confusing "culture" with "worldview." It is true that atheism is not a worldview...it is a singular proposition. However, there is a culture that we've built around us...and I see no problem with that. Furthermore, I think it is a perfectly reasonable development. Putting aside the existence of deities does naturally lead to certain other ideas, including promotion of rational thought, a higher regard for science, and opposition to imposition of religion by political or social authority. As an atheist only for about five years now, I'm glad for the existence of atheist culture.
Go to ground.news/skeptic to find high quality news sources and compare coverage. Subscribe using my link for 30% off unlimited access for just $5 this month.
Atheist culture only exists in America. In Europe we just assume everyone is atheist.
UA-cam comments are being a bit weird for me, apologies if this is a repeat...
The term "New Atheism" existed well before the 2006 Wired article.
I went for a brief dig through the google groups archive of alt.atheism, as I thought I'd encountered the term there, and I had stopped participating there before 2006.
I found:
The New Atheism: And the Erosion of Freedom (1986) Robert A. Morey. P&R
Publishing: Phillipsberg, NJ. ISBN: 0-87552-362-5
No chain restaurants. I need to see the best mom and pop pizza places near you. Pizza is clearly the food of the gods. I don't even care which gods. I just appeciate their part in the creation of pizza. 🍕🍕🍕🍕🍕🍕
Well, I've been an atheist for over 50 years, having achieved atheism in my mid to late teens. It's hard to put a particular date on when I stopped believing the Roman Catholicism I was raised in. I didn't stop going to church till I stopped living with my parents, which was after my first university degree. It's not something I've ever discussed with my family, they just know I don't go to church, and I don't even know whether or how many of them do. Religion just isn't something that gets discussed, at least, not when I'm around.
If you pushed me on what made me stop believing, it's probably a whole number of things. Sagan's pale blue dot was likely significant, then I was educated as a biochemist, so the "miracle" of life wasn't as remarkable as all that. I'm also gay, and it's hard to be gay in most Christian churches. So there's nothing that stands out as THE one thing that made me lose belief. The notion that an entire vast universe was necessary to put people on that pale blue dot was probably most significant. I just couldn't see a god going to all that effort.
Perhaps most significant is the projection of human failings on to this god. We had created god in our own image, rather than the reverse that Christian scripture claims. I just couldn't imagine a god with our particular strengths and weaknesses. Then there's the problematic issue of where this god came from, and why should it be like us. None of it made any sense. Maybe there's something out there that creates universes, who knows? Who can know? I very much doubt it, though I suppose we could call it a god, but it's certainly nothing like us.
I’m one of the people debating in the comments section
"Culture is the product of those who identify with a group, not a measuring stick by which we decide whether the member of a group is valid"
so true bestie
So if I am an atheist but I do not identify with any other atheists am I out of the “culture” of atheism? I do not subscribe to groups lol
I kind of strongly disagree tbh. This implies that a person couldn't genuinely say they aren't part of a culture while they objectively are (and vice versa).
I'm sure we all have tons of examples of that even as first-hand experience. Let's not subjectivise culture to this extreme degree, please.
@@tacitozetticci9308 What example?
@@alalalala57 I don't feel like answering. I SUMMON THE INTERNET (say something guys. Ty 👍)
I would add a caveat. You're talking about online atheists (primarily), and/or atheist activists, and people for whom being an atheist is a significant component of their self identity. There is a culture around that. My wife is an atheist, but she thinks so little about it that she would never label herself as such. It's not a part of her self-identity. I suspect that she represents the great majority of atheists who exist.
that's my point, why can't I just not believe in God and be done with it, I need no labels, and I don't ask others approval.
@@russriley3005 well if that is the case you could just say it "i just don't believe in god", or better yet why share it publicly you could also heep it private, unless someone asks you aren't required to share it, if they ask, politeness manners dictate you should try to label yourself, but you still don't need to comply.
I think the difference is mainly how religious your upbringing was. If you were brought up super religious, and a firm believer, deconverting and becoming an atheist is by necessity a big deal. If you were brought up like me, by parents who aren’t religious in a place where religion is not a big deal, of course being an atheist is not a big deal.
I don't believe in god but I am not without humor, if ask, I am an orthodox Farinki, not to be confused with the reformed Farinkis that throw the bathwater of Bubbis out the window. we orthodox Farinkis drink the bathwater@@ГеоргиГеоргиев-с3г
@@tovekauppi1616 for me it is slightly a bigger deal than average, because of the implications, i have almost absolutely no care in the world on the God question, but when someone says their religion compels them to worsen the life of others i go full on anti-theist, because re-labelling of objectively(lets say by popular vote) immoral actions as a virtuous acts leads to really bad outcomes, by anyone's measure of bad.
This reminds me of a conversation I once had with my mom. She told me she was part of a group that went to ”atheist meetings”. My initial response was a joking ”what do you do at one of these meetings? Sir around and talk about the lack of something?” to which she responded: ”nah, were fighting to keep religion out of schools.” after which, my jaw hit the floor.
See, I'm Canadian and my mom, having moved to Florida, now had to contend with her local government fighting against the separation of church and state.
(So others don't get a shockingly sad response, she passed away in 2016. Fuck Cancer!)
Your mom seems cool ! Mind telling her that someone sent a "Hi . Take care of yourself and have a great day cuz u deserve it !" ? :D
@@S.I.U. I'm sorry to break this to you. Unfortunately she passed away in 2016 from Cancer. She was a cool lady. She was an author too. If you're interested, her name Tanya Coovadia. I'm not sure if her books are still available, but you can likely find them with her name. She also wrote a blog about her battle with Cancer called ”I'm literally fucking dying”.
I wanted you to know in case you wanted to hear more from her.
Thank you for thinking she was cool. ❤️
@paranoiarpincess I'm sorry for your loss. Your mom sounds like an amazing woman. May her memory be a blessing.
@@paranoiarpincess I'll search for her works ! I'm sure they're amazing !! Also , I'm sorry if I made you feel bad . Amazing humans raise amazing humans so if isn't asking too much , I hope take my words to her as a little-bit-late inheritance and apply them on your daily life . Hope your doing fine ! 💕
@@S.I.U. thank you so much. I was worried I would bum you out more than anything. Her passing still his me like a truck but knowing you're interested in her works and her life more than made up for it this time. It really means a lot so thank you, and I hope you have a great rest of your life or until I get to check in with you again if it so happens in the future ❤️
In Germany, Life of Brian cannot be shown in public theatres on good friday, as it is a mandated day of observance and rest. As an example, clubs and discos are commonly closed then, too. LoB is considered to be disrespctdul to chritian groups, which is why it cannot be shown along with other films that stand accused of mocking christianity.
Consequently it has become a meme in german atheist circles to host gatherings watching LoB on good friday.
Damn, sounds like a tradition I could get behind.
Are you serious? And here I thought Germany was a secular country.
@@christiner6000not really. the nothern parts are evangelical, the southern parts catholical.
i'm from the northern parts and was once a part of a team hosting children church services, i was well into the young christian endeavor thing, my abitur was on an evangelical school, and i pretty much voted the first several years for the CDU, because i genuinely believed that only christian based parties can direct this country effectively.
but since since i became an atheist, i actually started to look into the available political informations (e.g. the country spending plans), i'm not strictly following any one party anymore.
@@cobaliusjust to inform you evangelisch doesn’t translate to evangelical.
@@christiner6000Germany is much more secular than the US. Since last year more citizens identify them selfes as atheists than religious.
Weirdly we still like the tradition formed by christianaty like closed shops on sundays and enjoy the different religious holidays. We do not oppose religion as subject in schools because kids get to study a variety of the main world religions. Also, different regions handle thise thigs different Germany is not a monolith
I think "culture" is often conflated with "monolith", which is how so many religious people see us. So I completely understand atheists wanting to downplay the notion of atheist culture when we're told we're all one thing with one experience and one belief.
This is a really good explanation actually!
Yup you could apply this to everything
great point, but to be fair, many atheists have a similar view of religious groups
@@leoyakafudy Of course. People have a tendency to make sweeping generalizations about groups they're not a part of.
I'm an atheist. To say there is an "atheist culture" is ignorant at best.
When I identify myself as an Agnostic Atheist, I still feel the need to clarify my position further:
In the sense that just because I don't deny the possibility of there being a creator, that doesn't mean I'm still open to the idea of your god being a possibility.
Same but opposite, I have to reiterate that I'm not pretending I know everything.
I call myself an agnostic atheist as well, but I think there are specific types of god claims that you can be "gnostic" in denying. For instance, if a presented idea of a god is logically incoherent you can be certain that it's not something that actually exists.
I'm comfortable saying I'm atheist. God existing is about as likely as a unicorn fart starting the universe.
@@HiforestEspecially when we know it was Lisa the Rainbow Giraffe (Leaf be upon Her)!
@@Hiforest but you don't know for sure it didn't, you can't. Humanity does not have the mental nor physical faculties to prove nor disprove such a thing.
Awesome video Drew! Glad to have been a part of it. I love deep dives into culture like this.
Yo JJ what do you think about Climate Change? You seem to be a reasonable person that wouldn't deny science, but you also label yourself as Conservative, so I'm concerned that you're hiding your power level. I've never seen you talk about it, so I was curious what you believe.
@@lekebabfrancais9018 I think it’s one of the defining challenges of our time but I’m not sure what the best public policy solution is. I don’t want juts symbolic or feel-good policies I want policies that will make a difference.
@@JJMcCullough My limited understanding of the current political situation in Canada, is that the Liberals have a carbon tax and are trying to build green energy, but I'm unaware of ANY policy suggestion by the Conservatives to combat Climate Change.
I'm wondering how you would justify voting or supporting a party, whose only position seems to be inaction, to someone like me, who's of the perspective that the Climate issue could become devastating both economically and socially for all, if not addressed appropriately.
If you would suggest the private sector as a solution, I would disagree, because it seems so far to be unable to adequately address the issue without public pressure.
@JJMcCullough
Nobody wants symbolic, feel good policies - that argument is a strawman and a delaying tactic. Canada spends tens of billions (at least) per year subsidising one of the dirtiest fossil fuel extraction industries in the world. Finding policies that are easy wins for the climate isn't hard but the Conservatives oppose them
I _knew_ I recognized the art style on the thumbnail!
I have a catholic coworker who gave me a very sympathetic look when we had a conversation about my being an atheist. Then he proceded to tell me how it must be sad for me to be a nihilist with nothing to make me happy. I was taken aback as I don't see myself as being a contrarian or nihilistic at all. I survived cancer, I live every day to the fullest and I never bash or criticize others for their religion or faith. There seems to be this common misconception that all atheist are Nietzschian... Which is also kind of ridiculous as that belief is also a total bastardization of what Neitzche believed. I just find it crazy how little is known or understood about atheism.
if you dont believe there is a God, then from where do you get your morals?
if you dont believe there is a God, then whats the diffrance between you being alive and dead? isnt it just a rearangement of atoms?
if you dont believe there is a God, then what is your purpose? and if you are free to choose it, then why are you aganst ppl who's purpose is to kill? to rape?
if you aren't Nietzschian, then what are you?
So, I know that since you're atheist, then you have to believe that there is nothing wrong about incest. So let's walk that path, using that same logic:
According to atheist religion, What is wrong about cannibalism?
@@MilitantAntiAtheism what is this username srsly?
@@MilitantAntiAtheism Cannibalism? Like when Christians eat Jesus' body?
@@MilitantAntiAtheismThere’s two things I want to say.
1. Atheism is not a religion, if it were a religion, switching the TV off would be a channel.
2. Alex O’Connor (Cosmic Skeptic) poses good arguments about why incest and cannibalism can be argued as bad as an atheist. You could look it up for more details but it’s essentially emotivism, where when we think of incest, we think “boo”, and therefore, bad.
anger at having been lied to is valid. "the truth will set you free; but first it will make you angry" - gloria steinem.
I remember reading one of her essays!
I don’t think Christians are “lying” intentionally, even if they happen to be wrong.
Regarding debates. It's the most infuriating feeling when somebody openly questions your belief, you honestly answer, get a few incredulous laughs or weird stares and after you defend your position with anything resembling a formal argument you're instantly an "edge lord Atheist debate fanatic".
But it is what it is.
get attacked, defend yourself, get called defensive. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's all in good faith up until the Zealots start losing...
Some made a bad point online, I commented why I thought it was bad, and another person said “ok, r/atheism”. Like dude, disagreeing with you does not make me some toxic zealot
The mention of The Life of Brian and the topic of the video reminded me of this.
Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody! You've got to think for yourselves! You're all individuals!
Crowd: [in unison] Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
Crowd: [in unison] Yes, we are all different!
Man in crowd: I'm not...
Crowd: Shhh!
My favourite scene in the movie
My second favourite is "I haven't spoken in twenty years" "A miracle!"
yea you're the messiah, I should know I've followed a few
Yes, you are unique--just like everybody else.
My favorite Christmas movie
He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!
"I'm a flying spaghetti monster. You seriously believe I'm descended from some kind of flightless manicotti?"
God I love that episode
Oh yh daddy
@@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic Futurama is a great source of atheism lines. "OH... YOUR... GOD."
"As your God as my witness", too.
Sometimes I actually say, "sweet zombie Jesus".
@@perryjohnson7529 I LOVE "sweet zombie jesus"! How did I forget to mention that!?
Outside of the english speaking sphere and following the train of thought of the flying spaguetti monster as a mock religion figure, he rubber duck became the basis of an actual real life atheist church in madrid that exists as a foil to the catholic church. Here, the rubber duck is seen as the god of all things small and insignificant. The place even offers sunday ceremonies, baptisms and weddings.
"What exactly is the function of a rubber duck?" - Arthur Weasley, Harry Potter 😂
Well, Ducky allows a kind of worship I can follow: ua-cam.com/video/ugH0YaBSaYk/v-deo.html
A holy symbol of programmers
Damn I want a rubber duck wedding
In Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series there’s a goddess of things that are stuck in a drawer. That makes more sense than the christian god, because things do get stuck in drawers a lot.
I was never raised religious or non religious, I was simply raised as a kid, and so here I am, as an atheist. Most of these things you listed I either do not partake in or had no idea about to begin with, I feel like this has list is more applicable to religious converts or atheist activists than people like me.
It also gives me an interesting perspective on the "You were never born religious" quote. Cause to me, that lines up perfectly, I had no ideas put into my head about religion so there was no breaking away to be made. Granted the one thing I was taught that could apply here was to not believe things immedietely.
Exactly, I was born and raised in a country that's very irreligious and most people just don't think or speak about religion too often.
Militantly religious people get the same nasty looks like militant atheists because what are they even fighting about?
This! I would describe myself as somewhere between pure agnostic and weak atheist which is funny when considering my experiences with religion. I wasn’t raised in a religious family, though my mum converting to buddhism when I was about 12. She tried converting me too 😂. I attended a catholic kindergarten where we recited grace every meal, went to a christian primary school and HEAVILY christian high school. When I was little, I went to christian camps with my religious friends. I can still recite hymns and christian songs from my childhood (tbf some christian songs are bangers). Most of my friends now are religious and all of my closest friends are christian. I live in a country where I would say religion has a sizeable influence on political values and people’s lifestyles, but I have rarely felt it forced onto me despite it being so present in my life. The reason I think I didn’t end up being christian myself was that our country is very multicultural and schools taught many religions, including aboriginal creation myths to us, not just christianity. I think I thought each religion’s lore was just elaborate children’s stories with a little moral at the end like the ‘tortoise and the hare’ 😂
How can it be, that pdf file atheists defend the religious claim of atheist religion that men can give birth, while then at the same time, they reject the claim of islame that women can be pregnant for ten years?
There's zero evidence for either of the two claims, they're blatant lies. So what makes a difference from one to the other for atheists?
Yep. The "athiest culture" he talks about is actually just "a group of Christians/other-religions that lost their faith". Religion runs DEEP in the brain sadly, and this is why the cults get to children early. To permanantly shape their brain with the perspective of "the in crowd vs the out crowd". It does this to the oint that even people who escaped religion, are still incapable of understanding that the tribalism is NOT how non-religious people (people who were never brainwashed with it to begin with) work. These people like this guy are SO ingrained with the tribalism that they think evne non-belief is a "tribe" like the tribe they escaped.
The "atheist culture" is just online ex-religious people desperate for another "tribe" since their brain feels the need to be in one, even after escaping the harmful one.
I would counter point, no one is born a theist.
I think atheism is such an interesting example of the effect that the internet had in bringing isolated people together. There is SO much early 2000s-2010s internet culture that forms the context of western secular people.
that is due to the reverse effect, which is the fact that interaction with people far away in both location and culture can bring up convergent ideas and concept, which opens up to discussion, questions and spectrums, which are anathema to every dogmatic setup, both religious and secular.
how many times, between '93 and the '10s have you heard religious voices calling the internet evil? how many times that it was how foreigners use it to vehiculate whatever anti-religious herring it was that quarter? how many, after that, where instructed to jump in random places and just quote random scripture, killing communication in the first place?
I'm atheist and I've never been isolated (I wasn't raised into any religion, neither did most of my friends, even though I'm from Latin America and everyone is supposed to be Catholic), so I can't relate.
@@San_Vito In this context, being isolated is about being separate from other athiests physically and/or culturally. So pre-internet, athiests in latin america wouldn't have much of an opportunity to connect with atheists in the northeast U.S, as an example.
Thousands of atheist dawah sites have sprung up due to atheist prophets chris hitchens, richard Dorkins, Mad Pedolahunty, Commie harris and so on. All of them get a boner for communism and islame, which is only natural, since mao and mupedohammad have a _lot_ in common with pdf file atheists. For example, pdfilia, incest, cannibalism, slavery, torture, genocide.
@@San_Vito Fine, can you explain to me, why do you believe that men can menstruate and give birth, which is the claim of atheist religion, while then you at the same time reject the claim of islame that women can be pregnant for ten years or more?
There's zero evidence for either claim, they're both blatant lie. So why choose one huge lie over another huge lie?
Is it because atheist religion teaches hypocrasy? dishonesty? deceit? taqqyya?
I'm genuinely grateful to have stumbled into this community as my introduction to atheism. Drew seems to have cultivated a healthier space than some other atheist communities.
I feel similarly about Paulogia and r/exChristian
They are definitely part of a second (third? Fourth?) wave of Atheist UA-camrs with a still critical, but much more gentle and (I believe, effective) form of atheist.
I have not been able of posting comment on Paulogia withouth someone trying to argue or condemn me to hell, but that will never stop me form watching them
Mindshift does a very good job too. He's exceptionally analytical and low key. His analysis of the Bible as relates to his deconversion is spot on.
Kristi Burke is another lovely, low key account. She goes through the many reasons that contributed to her deconversion.
Viced Rhino is quite passionate, and can be pretty snarky. I like him. I sometimes hear some anger at the religion he left for wasting so much of his life.
There's also Aron Ra. He can be harsh, but nicely interleaves science into his skepticism.
I think it's nice to have a variety of accounts to go to for a broader picture.
@@gilleruadh I've seen all of them. Been with MindShift very early at I think 3k subs and am excited to see him grow!
These videos have made me realize that being an Atheist primarily because you were not raised with a faith is a bit uncommon, though it will be more and more common as time goes on. For me its not just that my parents were atheist but also just most of my family is either atheist, agnostic, or just doesnt care, the few religious people I am related too live half way across the country and I barely know them. It took me a while to realize people literally believed in the stuff and it confused me really bad, I still remember how baffled I was.
I do live in the United States btw so no idea what Europe and Asia are like in that regard.
I was raised mostly without religion in the 70's and 80's. When I was very young (until 3rd grade) my parents tried being Jehovah's Witnesses, but that is all. After that, religion played no part in my life except that my best friend on my street had to stop playing at a certain time to get ready for church. I grew up in San Diego, and nobody talked about religion, not that I remember. I didn't start really thinking about religion until college and only in the last several years have found atheist UA-cam channels. My sister and I have raised our kids without religion and my three kids are at least agnostic, if not atheist. And I have friends who didn't practice any religion with their kids. So yes, it's definitely becoming more common. And I share your bafflement. :D
@@michelekendzie I still to this day havent been in a church, maybe ill understand then lol.
I think your experience is pretty common. A UA-cam channel portraying experiences different than yours doesn't mean your experiences are uncommon.
@@DerpPickles Thats true, I just haven't met anyone really. Though that is true that just because I havent met many people who have similar experiences doesnt meant they arent there.
I imagine its really common in other countries espesially.
I was raised without religion in the 60s & 70s. We were definitely a minority.
We once stayed in a cabin for vacation. The area had a small playground. I was minding myself swinging on the swingset. A little girl about my age got on another swing. After swapping names, she asked me what church my family went to. Since I'm the world's worst liar, I squeaked out that we didn't go to church. She hopped off the swing, looked back at me and said "Then I can't play with you." and walked away.
Nothing like Christian love.
Saying atheist culture exists is a lot like saying "mechanical pencil culture exists". There's a group of people who are really into mechanical pencils, and have strong opinions about them, and have common features like the love of knurled metal grip sections, and even more niche subgroups like people who collect vintage. But these aren't really representative of the vast majority of people who use mechanical pencils.
Atheist culture is like that. There's definitely culture among groups who are vocally atheist, but the majority of atheists are just people who don't believe in god, and probably would (at least in the US) identify as agnostic or non religious. They don't participate in anything you could really call "atheist culture"
I was going to comment something similar to this, but I couldn't have done better myself. Most atheists don't care at all, it's only the formerly religious ones that are super militant like the guy from this channel that do.
This is one of the better responses to the video and shows the fundamental flaw in the video's thesis.
Atheist cultureS (note the plural) exist, and there are atheist people that aren't part of those cultures. That's the correct assesment of the situation.
No offense but it is logically and seriously inappropriate to refer to Drew as being any sort of militant, about his skepticism; so much moreso to say that he is "super militant". If Drew ever was any degree of "militant" about his god-belief-skepticism, he certainly no longer is. He simply believes that the things he presents, in his videos, are important enough to warrant that presentation. I agree with him on that point. At the same time, I must agree with your point and @TheKartana's point about the notion that the vast majority of atheists are not really involved in any notable "atheist culture" things. At least, that point makes perfect sense to me. But the "super militant" comment, no.@@San_Vito
Totally agree. I'm considerably atheist but out of all the 29 cultural features on the list, I only recognize about a third of them and I can only personally relate to about 2 or 3. These aren't features of "atheist culture" as much as they are features of "a very online, atheism-focused subculture".
The video is pretty clear that it's specifically about English-language discourse but I think it could be taken a step further to say that it's specifically about online English-language discourse among those who consider atheism to be a big part of their identity.
Cultures that are defined by an internet community tend to be a pretty concentrated subset of the whole culture and doesn't fully represent what people in real life are actually like or their experiences. From my experience this is true of communities surrounding music, gaming, cooking, anime, tech/computers, and even online LGBT spaces. And now atheism as well. The people who are online enough and/or fanatic enough to spend their time forming online cultures around x y or z define the overall culture based on what they've experienced online.
That is to say, myself and most of those in my circles are agnostic or atheist and yet I've never heard most of the things on this list even mentioned. I guess I just feel weird when somebody claims to know about features of atheist culture, which I feel like I should relate to, and then it's just a bunch of obscure things that I don't particularly care for.
Fingerless gloves are GREAT if you need to somewhat protect your hands but still need the precise tactility and control of bare fingertips.
They don't keep your hands very warm, but they're certainly better than nothing.
I find their best use is in bike riding, if you must fiddle with maintenance tasks while outdoors.
Second best use, novice glassblowing, especially when working heavy pieces. The heat creeps down the pipe toward your hands. It's better to hear the hiss of wet leather than to feel it on your skin when you're holding up 20 pounds of hot glass at the end of the pipe.
Third best use, outdoor guitar playing. The stiction against the guitar neck is a real downside, but you can mitigate it with talcum powder, and the gloves do something to prevent your fingers from becoming stiff and numb.
is this ai generated or a edgy glove kid joke?
@@blepwareYou cannot say "edgy glove kid" as an insult when you have a black/ red emo furry profile picture that looks like it was drawn from deviant art in 2011
@@jackjones7620 That wasn't an insult, just a question. Also who the fuck pissed in your cheerios?
Plus, you are subscribed to vivziepop. Don't hate on me because you're insecure about who you really are. We get it you're in denial. It's ok bud.
Fourth use, you are cold but your body doesnt know the difference between being comfortably warm and dying from heat exhaustion. (Seriously, for some of us, even in winter it's: stay slightly cold or be sweaty)
@@jackjones7620 Bro... you are subscribed to viziepop. It's ok bud. We get it, you're insecure about something.
Nice list of shared culture. I'm an atheist that wasn't born into and never had a religion. I only have a few atheist friends, but I do notice we share a appreciation of science and skeptical thought, support separation of church and state, and are frustrated at christian nationalism. I do have to sit patiently on the sidelines when they start talking deconstruction, closet stories, and church created trauma as I don't share any of those experiences and can't sympathize at a deeply understanding level.
I had a strained relationship with my dad but one of my favorite things about him was his gift giving. Somehow, you had a 50/50 shot if he got you some goofy ass, clearly last second gift from the dollar store (probably) that you definitely weren't gonna enjoy or use. Or it'd be the best present you opened that year. No in between. It was hilarious.
Anyway one year, I think I was like 15-16, he bought me "The God Delusion " It was my favorite gift that Christmas. I know there's a lot of contention around that book but it meant a lot to me. My mom was a Lutheran and raised me in it to appease her family but from a young age I was pretty vocal about hating church and not really believing in it. His buying that book was one of the few times I felt like he actually supported me. Plus of course reading it as an angry teen, I loved it lol. But it'll always hold a special place in my heart.
When I was a kid I got sent to sunday school a few times. The last time I came home in a real bad mood. I was asked what was wrong and I said "It's all bloody lies." The teacher told everyone that a bloke died and then got better. Never went there again.
/r/atheism banned me for "promoting Islam" because I linked /r/AskHistorians threads while attempting to debunk hate speech. That subreddit deserves whatever horrible reputation it has.
The invisible pink unicorn feels sad that you forgot to mention her. She views herself as equal to the FSM and bemoans the fact that people forget about her.
Don't worry - my grandaughter is obsessive on her behalf.
I mean, he also skipped over a certain bit of runaway census trolling, but... Disney gonna Disney these days, so that one's kinda understandable...
30:36 My brother tried debating atheism with a friend and used this analogy. Now the friend is convinced my brother worships Russel's teapot.
Aw, c'mon! Who _doesn't_ worship Russell's teapot?
@@archbishoprichardforceginn9338the one between the earth and Mars first theorized to exist by Bertrand Russell
@@archbishoprichardforceginn9338 No one has answered your _important_ questions, so I will:
_Which teapot?_
That nice blue one with the fish pattern. You remember.
_How much tea was in it?_
Four. Four tea.
_Green tea or sassafras?_
Oolong.
Medieval knights quested for the holy Grail.
Modern atheists quest for Russell's tea pot.
Russel Howard, a porcelain teapot, and earl grey. The holy scripture states it clearly.
Being dragged into a debate or watching two or more people debate is just so stressful for me, drives my anxiety up and negatively affects my mental health. I really hate arguing, and I hate being put into a position where I have to defend myself. I've reached an age now where I just don't engage with people anymore because there are so many people trolling or acting in bad faith that it's not worth my time. I tend to know pretty quickly whether someone I'm talking to is willing to listen to anything I have to say, at which point (if they aren't) I end the conversation and move on.
You are my exact opposite. Lol. Debate fills me with joy. I debated a lot as a theist and as an atheist
Same. My BFF was on our high school's version of debate club, but I can't even watch TV shows where people argue.
I'm the same. In my case, I think it's from growing up in a family that viewed arguing as sport. The only goal was to win and never to discuss.
@@osarootaigbe2098 I don't envy you. If your debating helps make the world a better place in even the slightest, then more power to you.
@@jmwild1 Lol it doesn't. If u ever argue with someone and it makes them change their views they never held those views strongly in the first place
37:34 “And why would I?”
Brushes fingers through luscious locks 😂😂😂 killing me here Drew
Unexpected hair flex was unexpected. 🙂
the four horsemen talk was named so because hitch had coined the term earlier and he called them "the four horsemen of the anti-apocalypse"
Oh, good to know!
This is my new favorite video you’ve ever done. It made me smile the whole time. It’s genuinely uplifting to see someone acknowledge and celebrate the culture and community I feel at home in.
I prefer to sing ”every sperm is sacred” personally.
About the negative stereotypes... a uni peer of mine once used to be an atheist, and when he was such he was anti-theist. So, after he reconverted back to Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and especially after he politically became an unironic Nazbol, he just assumes all atheists to be anti-theists. When I told him I was atheist, he immediately assumed I was an anti-theist. Despite, you know, me willingly, sometimes even enthusiastically, celebrating at least formally religious holidays with family, relatives and acquaintances. It says more about him than about me, I think.
with holidays, it's not so weird to keep on celebrating. When we look back at how Christianity spread. christian holidays were plastered on pagan celebrations winter solstice. beggining of spring time of harvest. All kinds of fectivals and celebrations of nature and survival.
Oh god, Nazbol's...what made him become a nazbol?!?!?!
@@Jvpko. he became one before I ever met him, and I didn't bother asking, so I wouldn't know
@@HistoryandOtherStuffwithBV I see :/
Yeah as a former atheist I can say from experience that I went through a time when I believed that all atheists were similar to how I was when I was an atheist.
Thankfully that’s changed and I have a more nuanced and open minded view of atheists as a people.
Thank you, J.J.! Love to see my favourite creators collaborating and sharing ideas. This is a great video
Indeed is !
I like ur subs channels
Your nickname as the Mister Rogers of atheists is well earned! I believe that it is only by keeping one's stance gently neutral that we ever hope to show opponents and doubters that our own positions and beliefs (whatever they may be) are not destructive, evil, or other negative connotations those doubters may hold in their hearts and minds. Thank you for all you do.
As someone born and raised in eastern germany (apparently the most atheist place in the world), its hard to grasp that there are people in the west who are still that much into religion and even hostile towards atheists sometimes.
Bible belt.
Show me an atheist, I will show you a pdf file
@@MilitantAntiAtheism I show myself...? What PDF file?
In the US, atheists are very discriminated against. If you are running for office and an atheist, you better keep your atheism quiet. Very few people who are atheist get elected to office here.
I wanna shout out specifically James Randi for setting me up on the right path early in life with his talks and teaching so much about skepticism and charlatanism, something that made me join health care industry and help protect people against predatory ideas and institutions.
It's something I never thought about, but as a queer/trans athiest my "coming out" process for atheism was surprisingly similar to my coming out as trans. Interesting to think about
Only one side of my family accepted me as an atheist , but I'm still in the closet about being trans cuz I know none would accept me . I tried , but all my HUGE hints always ends with be getting extremely frustrated with myself
Idk I guess I just felt like sharing as you also shared a part of your experience-
Anyways , I hope your day is being wonderful just like u ;) 💕💕
@@S.I.U. I feel that, coming out in any respect is difficult. Ensuring your own safety is of course more important than anything else, one trans individual to another I believe in you 🏳⚧✨
My Mum was worried I'd become protestant when my dad and her decided not to indoctrinate their kids (she is Catholic). She raised 2 atheists instead - thank God!!
I only came out as trans and gay. I was raised secular, so I didn't have to handle that bit.
Honestly, I think people had a more difficult time understanding that I'm gay. I think because a lot of people still think trans men are just really butch lesbians.
would you say they were somewhat equally hard/challenging for others to accept and to speak about it openly? or there is no point of comparison in that regard. I am curious.
what people mean by "atheists have no culture" is that "atheist culture" would be akin to "religious culture" by that the only thing the group has in common is whether they believe in (a) god(s) or not
Sort-of, but not quite. Practicing a specific religion requires you to perform certain rituals, read certain scripture, learn specific prayers, meet other believers on a daily basis etc. this all leads to the development of a common culture in a way atheism does not because it doesn't require you to do any of these things.
@@igorbednarski8048 I meant that there are many different religions which all have a different culture, so there is not one single "religious culture", and similarly, atheism encompasses many different cultures as well, so there is not one single "atheist culture"
@@nitronik_exe ok, in this case I agree
very cute avatar ❤
I was on the board of Secular Student Alliance and worked for American Humanist Association and this is spot on. I kinda had to figure this all out as someone who was not your typical "four horseman" atheist but an outsider who kinda found my own path through reading existentialist philosophy in the 1990s
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the best cultural element ever
That may just be another name for what we call "god"....ever think of that?
One interesting thing I find myself pondering is this idea of agnostic/gnostic atheism.
Agnostic in a way makes the statement that "with the appropriate evidence, I would change my mind". I initially thought that's the group I belonged in, but then I went through the exercise "what sort of evidence would I need to accept something as supernatural rather than wonder how the trick is done?" .
It led me down a rabbit hole, to the eventual conclusion that given my stance on intellectual curiosity, it'd be an abdication of it for me to accept something I observe as supernatural, rather than wondering what the underlying explanation is, even if something seems supernatural or magical. Applying the idea of "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" would always end me in a state where I wouldn't think it's magic, only science/technology I don't yet understand.
Therefor, uncomfortably, perhaps that'd make me a gnostic atheist, because despite the principle of being willing to change my mind with appropriate evidence being true, there's not really anything evidence can do to persuade me that something doesn't have a non-supernatural explanation that just requires further digging, because at no point am I willing to abdicate my curiosity and accept that there's no greater understanding that'd explain this, so I'll just keep looking for that indefinitely if need be, if I were to observe evidence of something that seems supernatural on the surface.
I wonder if anyone else has gone down this line of reasoning, and realized that they're too curious to know how the trick is done to accept anything that appear supernatural as anything but an insufficient understanding of science/technology. And if you did go down this path, do you also come to the conclusion that it's incompatible with being an agnostic atheist, since there's no evidence that exists that'd change your mind, thus making you 100% certain from a certain perspective?
This is why I don't like the term "supernatural". If something exists then it must be explainable by the laws of nature. If something that we characterize as "supernatural" exists then our understanding of the laws of nature is incorrect/incomplete.
Well it Actually depends on philosophy... a lot, because the foundationnof science its made taking certaint things as axioms and then building on them, if you are a materialist, sure you can go that way, but we need to remember that again, its build around philosophy, for example, science relates how everything work and its actually Factual? Or it is our best aproximation to understanding certain things? If the second one its true. Then, you can find Theist arguments really easily, because not everything its proven in the same way, for example, how we think or why are we here? We could answer that, and we could argue that some answer its better than other, but we cant apply science to it. If there exist something super natural it doesnt meant that the natural world its incomplete. Its just means that its a closed System or that it in fact depend on some external maintainer, that we coulc call God, but that made the universe in a way that it could get really grounded rules, it like creating a videogame. The developer can interact with that world, can make changes, etc. But he isnt part of the game. But he can make a system that has a strong set of define rules perfect for it
I think that it is grounded in a deep need in the human heart for searching truth, if God exist or not, its a realy big question, Because if he exist, it changes everything, as well has if he doesnt, because any answer has a lot of consequences, I myself would like to invite you to search for the best framework that suits you, I would argue that as humans we maybe cant find Absolute truth, but not because we cant find it, means that it doesnt exist. At the end, if God exist, we are finite beings studying the infinite. I know that this is an atheist channel, but i really recommend searching in Christianity, you can look at others religions obviusly, at the end if we care about religion and truth we want to follow truth, and that could be in the Quran or Budism, but in the end i really think that Christianity is the best and most beautiful framework for searching Truth, and that God reveal itself throught Christ. But at the end, the decision its on you. There are really a lot of beauty in religion, and a lot of good apologist. And religion doesnt need to be actually irrational it can have depper meaning if you search enought, specially outside of some fundamentalist groups. I Encourage you in a deep Christian love to search for Truth, wherever it takes you. But dont forget that your life has a meaning, what you do to others matter and that if you believe something. Even if you disagree with someone, as Humans we need to take care of others, and listen to each one. I really love God and i know that faith is hard but its worth it... Good Luck in your Journey. And God bless you.
I always liked the ignostic stance. What proof could there be of something that can't even be defined?
@@weaponizedpizza8825 Well, there isnt a rigid structure of the definition among theist everyoments, thats why we argue that at the same time God its not the same god in diferent religions, because we are talking about diferent definitions usually, even then, thats why we have apologetics developement between diferent faiths, because we declare a basic definition between religions, and then we argue later about the details about that God and what means from one God to be true, that what theology, apologetics, and religion is for, understanding God and the metaphysics and meaning or not meaning of our existance. Now, lets clarify, that a not clear definition about something means it isnt true, or dont exist, it just means that we need to clarify the definition before we start to talk and argue about something, for example, what is life? The biologist has a diferent aproach to this question than a philosopher or a mathematician, what is a number? Everything is build around definitions, but that doesnt make that thinks least probable, or fake, or true, that question is rooted in philosophy and the meaning of what we say, how we think and how a think is prove to be true. In the instance of God and is existance, one could argue that, if our definition of it change between times, how can we be certain of his existance? if our knowledge and understanding of Him grows with time, its not because he is incomplete or doesnt exist or because he changes ( That would change our vision about a lot of arguments and theological thought) but because he is revealing around time, in the same way that as a toddler you learn the basics about math, and with time you can go to calculus or more abstract math, it helps us to understanding it more, the same with Christianity and other religions and thats why we have Church history and Creeds
I get your point and that's fine, but there is a difference between there being an "atheist culture," which is really just a natural development of atheists talking to each other, and an atheist `worldview.` This is where it gets murky. Truth is: The only thing I can tell about a person who I know nothing about other than them being an atheist, is they do not believe in gods. *Everything else* is speculative BS.
true, though in some way I feel like that thanks to the internet there COULD be a time in the future, were an atheistic worldview actually has developed, due to people sharing ideas and building basically a consensus on so many concepts, that it can count as worldview.
We will see if that happens
@@hannajung7512 There already are. We just call them secular. Secular Humanism and the Church of Satan are both atheist worldviews. It's not that there isn't or can't be worldviews under the umbrella of atheism. It's that atheism, just like theism is a broad label that merely denotes whether a person does or does not believe in a god or gods. My issue is the lumping of all atheists together into one solidified worldview. It would be like saying Hindus and Jews believe exactly the same thing, simply because they are both theists.
I will say that I’ve only ever engaged with a fraction of the features presented in this video.
As you said, “culture is the product of those who identify with a group” and I think (although this is anecdotal) that a significant majority of atheists barely exhibit or engage with any of these features.
Thus I think that atheist culture is incredibly dilute within the general population, while more fervent and active atheists definitely share a much stronger culture.
I would argue that the (vast) majority of atheists is not, in fact, a group but just a collection of unconnected individuals and as such does not have a culture. At least not in their identity as atheists. Just like non-stamp-collectors don't have a culture and aren't a group.
Yes, I feel much the same. On those rules would there be a sience fiction culture as well🤔
Ex-atheist here. I always thought of Fedora Tippers as their own thing, a cringe thing amplified by online exposure, and not explicitly associated with atheism, just a certain blip of internet millennials. Like hipsters, but usually less groomed and healthy. If anything, I associate them more with Magic the Gathering players than Atheists, lol, but I guess there's some overlap in the Millennial generation. Not sure how your video came to my feed, btw, but I thoroughly enjoyed revisiting some of this stuff.
The generous reading of "atheists don't have a culture" is that there are many atheists who may have at most a vague awareness of only some of these things.
Many of these relate to skeptics and anti-theists (or people leaning in that direction). I'd probably say that most atheists don't identify with any of these things, but those aren't the people you hear anything about, on account of them never talking about their atheism and them never engaging with content about atheism.
Among atheists who have some identification with these things, there are still vast differences in how they interact with others, what their values are, any sort of behaviours or practices, etc.
So there's a question here of when it's reasonable to say "X has a culture".
I consider Brian cox the spiritual successor to Sagan. His empathetic and kind approach is so similar, whereas I find NDT more brash, loud and confidence bordering cockiness.
I like NDT fine, but Brian Cox I personally look up to a lot.
I agree. NDT has great ideas and says great things, but his attitude is off. It feels like he's trying to be the next Carl Sagan... which I guess is fine. He just doesn't quite have the humility. It doesn't feel totally sincere.
NDT is a great communicator, but is often a pedantic tool and has a messy history to say the least. Brian Cox or Brian Greene are my favorite scientist communicators.
@@AdamTheJensen He sometimes makes the mistake of smart people commenting on things that are outside their purview. He did this once about the whole A.D. vs C.E. difference.
Honestly... I don't think there is any replacing Sagan. The man had just class and was maybe blessed by the internet not existing like today, no twitter or youtube to post random takes, so everything he said was carefully written.
NDT has said some dumb stuff
@@diegog1853NDT’s tweets are amazingly hilarious though, but yeah Sagan is truly in a class of his own
For me fedora tippers were always more associated with manosphere kind of things ("meninists"/MRA's, MGTOW, pick-up "artists", incels, etc.) as well as alt-right, but of course there is a niche group of atheists, particularly some who managed to get really popular for a while on UA-cam, who fit all three groups, so I suspect some sort of transfer of stereotypes between the groups through that (very visible) niche.
iirc the fedora tipper stereotype started with atheists and shifted over to MRAs and incels later.
some christians like to use it to insult atheists when they dont have an argument and outnumber them
I've heard the term "Corpse-God" thrown around.
As a Warhammer fan, I find this hilarious.
I always thought that satanists should dress as chaos cultists and react very insulted when they are called satanic and one should do the “Magnus the red explains chaos” talk from the “What if the emperor had a text to speech device” series. The next time they should dress as Jedi and Sith and have a mock battle with “Dual of the faites” blasting from speakers.
Interesting vid. Made me subscribe Your channel. Fun fact: this was the first time, I heard the expression "Fedora tipper". But: around 40 years ago, reaching the age of 16, I went to the local "Einwohnermeldeamt" (kind of a registration office), to seal my "Kirchenaustritt" (leaving the church). Right after that, I spent most of the birthday gift money in a clothing store on a black Trenchcoat and a Fedora. Until today, I did not realize, that there maybe was a casual connection between these two incidents....
I used to not be an angry atheist, but covid and jan 6 brought the anger back again.
See, I can't tell if your position is "Lockdowns should have been stricter, J6 was the worst thing since the early to mid twentieth century" or "Covid overreach was such bs, J6 was just another mostly peaceful protest."
Religion didn't cause that shit
An explanation of the "fedora" thing:
First of all, let me say that I have done no research; this is my personal recollection of events as an atheist who is about a decade older than GMS.
The fedora, in the 21st century, is anachronistic. It calls back to a time in the distant past depicted in noir films, and this fictionalized version of the past is what it's most associated with. Because of this, it became the hallmark of a certain kind of terminally online misogynist who wanted return to traditional masculinity in the days where Men were Men and women were hot babes that want to sleep with the male protagonist of a detective story. Meanwhile, the "new atheist" movement was under way. There was some overlap between these two groups, because some atheists are assholes too.
Then, in 2014-15, gamergate happened. In online culture, a bunch of people pivoted from atheist/skeptic content towards actively misogynist gamergate content. This led a kind of movement. Suddenly, the fedora, the sign of the misogynist, was associated with atheism and skepticism. It might have died down after a while, but around the same time, a very powerfully cringe post was posted to r/atheism. You know the one - about being euphoric and enlightened. Someone slapped this quote on a picture of a little-known actor tipping a fedora, and it went so fucking viral that the idea of fedoras being associated with cringe atheism has not died in the decade since.
So that's why fedoras are an atheist thing.
Well written. Sounds about right.
Just for fun: The name "Fedora" is actually that of a princess in a play (or something like that). She wore a Trilby hat, and her name got transferred to the hat. (I can't be bothered to check right now.)
Thank you, good sir or madam. I tip my hat to you 🧐🎩
Fedoras are a symbol of toxic masculinity and misogyny? wow...the internet is a weird fuckin place.
I am always happy to represent the one true religion of pastafarianism
Is that why you became an arbiter of noodles?
@@scipioafricanus5871 yes
Ave, true to pastafarianism.
All rise.
Hay que reeezar...
I'm an ordained minister of the invisible pink unicorn
As a pirate I follow the older sect. Gotta counteract global warming.
Didnt expect a fight club reference lmao
Whats a fight club
A what reference?
@@Justanormalcat7We don't talk about it.
@@Justanormalcat7 See, now I have to engage you in a fight in order to invite you.
I am Jack's giggling comment reader.
Feels like this one is being suppressed in the algorithm, really sucks cause you can tell this took a lot of work and it came out really nice
As one who enjoys the not so meaningless skit in the middle, I'd say its the joy and love that can be felt between you and Taylor. It's wonderful to hear people who respect and appreciate each other interact. Keep adding them in, they make someone of us very happy to share in a small part your joy.
I really appreciate this video!
Knowing Community and resources to learn, and to grow is so key for those entering the atheist space.
Over correcting to say that atheist have no culture or shared beliefs, can be super difficult to those leaving an organized religion, and I think it actually backfires into keeping people in that religion.
Knowing that there is community and love and shared identity beyond leaving the core group helped me to enter into an unknown space.
I’ve heard people offer resources to those struggling, but in practicality it is hard to find those groups.
Thank you so much for providing the ideas, groups, and surgical terms that will help all of us to grow.
You truly are a treasure and my favorite UA-camr.
I really feel like you understand the side of leaving a religion and not just angrily debating in videos. Some of us just want community and to better understand this side of life and we don’t want to always fight everything we see.
See this is why I don't call myself an atheist or even Agnostic really, I don't like religion period, and I just googled it and apparently it's called "Apatheist" didn't even know that was a thing, but I definitely fall under the words definition. "The attitude of apathy toward the existence or non-existence of God. It is more of an attitude rather than a belief, claim, or belief system"
Interesting. I usually just say that many atheists don't care about religion or deity-related topics/debates because they simply live their lives not thinking about them, since all it means to be an atheist is to not believe in a god. No claim or belief is required for being an atheist.
This means I would consider even those who somehow haven't thought about whether or not gods exist atheists, but, maybe that isn't right? I don't know.
Some of the fedora tipping fingerless gloves is a result of younger people raised withiut religion basically being like yourself, and saying, "no kidding there is no god...why are you spending so much time railing against it?"
I'm very hopeful for future generations where atheism doesn't need to be a thing.
You've not escaped anything. Literally nobody knows what that term means. But as soon as it catches on, be sure to get misunderstood and stereotyped. It's ridiculous avoiding labels altogether all bcoz of this.
@@Celsiusing someone who hasn't given a thought to the existence of gods would be an implicit atheist, not an apatheist. An apatheist has given it a thought and decided they don't care.
Excellent video. As a septuagenarian, who was a firm nonbeliever in her teens, (except for that whole “afterlife” thing. I was raised Catholic!), I’ve been a skeptic for decades. I have longed for a culture. A shared group experience. This video is so well presented that it has given me something to think about. I’ll knit you a cardigan, Drew. (It may be a while before you receive it, though. I’ll have to learn how to knit first). BTW: my favorite piece of atheist literature is the beginning of the book “Beam Me Up, Jesus”, by S. D. Golden. Cracks me up.
I have to learn how to knit first…😂😂😂😂 You crack me up! Greetings.
I was extremely skeptical about your stance on the atheist culture equation. I even waited to like your video…but you totally convinced me! Damn it! We do have a culture! 🤣😂🤣 Great job! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
The God Delusion is a free listen on Audible with a subscription.
Thanks for the recommendation GM, I'll give it a listen later tonight.
I don’t blame conservative atheists for being nervous about expressing their views. Here’s hoping other conservative groups become nervous about it, too!
Conservative atheists are almost as bad as conservative LGBTQ+ people.
I can almost view religious conservatives more favorably. They're brainwashed to believe in eternal torment if they don't follow the tenants of their religion. That's sympathetic. Believing abortion is bad with no scientific proof, and to argue women should have their right to choose taken away? Either you're a misogynist, or you let your emotions control you without being willing to do research. Either way, I have significantly less respect for those people. At the very least, I don't want to share spaces with the kind of people who would willingly choose to hurt the people I care about based on beliefs that can't be proven scientifically. I hope conservative Atheists' continue to feel unwelcome for as long as they hold their harmful opinions. I couldn't care less that they feel isolated or without community. Simply just get better opinions then, hopefully ones backed up by scientific fact and not their knee-jerk feelings.
They're not religious, but they never shook off the religious conditioning.
I'm not even conservative. Yet I can't express my antifeminist and pro-life leaning views without being unfairly attacked.
@@pythondrinkgood
Really great video, as always.
The only issue I had was the word "culture" itself. I feel like these are more "community signifiers" than a proper "culture." This is in part because of some of the things you touched upon. Atheists are inherently fragmented because our arrival at atheism, current beliefs and behaviors are so varied. My experience as a Unitarian (who I legitimately did not know were considered Christian at all despite attending Sunday school regularly from Kindergarten until middle school) is very different than my ex-Mennonite and Jehovah's Witnesses friends who were excommunicated and have no contact with their families. There's no unified set of beliefs, art or practices that we gather around, despite your examples of some we could.
I also watched the evolution of the UA-cam atheist in real time. I didn't need deconstruction, i was just there to laugh at the dumb things theists said, especially young earth creationists. The Reddit style was definitely dominant. A lot of those people have left UA-cam, but many took a hard right turn. The only thing i feel like i have in common with that crowd is atheism. No other beliefs or cultural touchstones. I would not welcome many of them into ANY community i would be a part of. The dominant versions of racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia used to be "because my god said so" and a lot if early UA-cam atheism was showing thier bigotry. These folks are claiming to be "rationalist" atheists and try to justify those bigotries without religion, which is simply awful and gross to me.
I already replied to someone else's comment naming Paulogia. I feel like you two (and some others) are definitely in the Mr. Rogers of atheism vein. You're not here to mock, you're here to honestly engage as former Christians, yet many Christians will still try to tar you with the Fedora stereotype.
Still a great video, and i do think you are spot-on. This is a tiny not-pick with a specific word, and nothing more. Keep it up!
You literally have no justification why any of those things are wrong.
@@TheLetterJ-c8n I don't know which part you're referring to. The only thing I'm disagreeing with the video about is the use of the word "culture" specifically as I just don't think it's an appropriate descriptor for the things atheists do share.
If you're talking about the bigotry, that's a totally different discussion.
A culture is a way of life. Atheists share many behaviors and ways of life. Atheist culture is a thing. I understand your fear but that's no reason to dodge this.
@@pythondrink it's not fear, it's that I literally have a degree in Cultural Geography so I'm a stickler about the term, that's all. Even with all these examples (which are great, really) I just don't think it rises to the level of "culture" the way, say Hawaiian Culture, Chinese Culture (which is hugely varied, and like a semester's worth of class just to scratch the surface) or even Christian Culture. I actually would say that pinning down Christian Culture would be difficult like this. It would make much more sense to talk about Protestant Culture, Catholic Culture and Evangelical Culture. Way more shared experience/food/dance/music/ritual among each of those than Atheist Culture. I see atheism as a "community" in some ways but not a "culture," yet. I'm not saying it can't be someday, it just isn't now.
I am totally willing to admit that this could be considered academic pedantry, but it's how I see it.
@@pythondrink I really don't think atheists share many "behaviors" or "ways of life." As he pointed out, we don't even share a specific belief! That's a diverse community, but only "culture" in the loosest sense.
On screen names, I would consider them part of the broader 'mostly online culture', which happens to overlap with Atheism. It's very common to have a chosen name for mostly anonymous spaces, and then still use that name in other spaces. Completely independent of atheism I call one of my best friends Cho. I've known him and his real name for over a decade. It's still most natural to refer to him as the guy who only plays Cho'gath in League of Legends, and we barely even play the game these days.
Hey, I need some advice.
I am a 15 yr old atheistic agnostic at a very Christian high school. I have mentioned my disbelief to my close friends and some trusted teachers but the word has gotten out that I am demonspawn and I don’t know how to respectfully argue or defend myself and my beliefs without seeming hostile or stupid. Do you already have one or can you make a video about debate techniques or ways to just stop the conversation? Or does anyone in the comments have any tips or helpful video suggestions? It would really help me out.
Funny, you started it, looking for a fight by attacking their beliefs & now yer all "they don't like me, wah wah wah". Just STFU. Or go to another school.
If you're looking for general communication or debate advice I'm not sure how much you'll find from atheism channels since that isn't usually what they focus on. For something a bit more general I'd recommend TheraminTrees, and maybe more specifically his playlist 'manipulative behavior.' It doesn't tackle religion or Christianity specifically but it addresses some of the bad arguments people resort to. Channels like Mindshift on UA-cam also have material that might help. Specifically his video 'how to come out as an atheist' and 'you've deconverted, now what' kind of touch on these topics. Mindshift and Kristi Burke both have pretty thought-out deconversion videos on more and less specific aspects of Christianity and the Bible.
As a disclaimer, I'm not a deconvert so I can't attest to how helpful these are from personal experience, but I found them to try to look at these things with calmness and understanding. And sorry if my suggestions were not at all what you were looking for.
I would personally suggest refraining from engaging with the conversation simply because it may not be safe or conductive. I don't think a Christian high-school is the place to prove yourself in.
Unfortunately, I don't have any advice outside of keeping your head low, that's what I did.
As a born and raised Chinse, I even did not know there were religious groups in modern society. So you can imagine how shocked I was when I was approached by a Jehovah's Witness in the Netherlands for the first time.
And yet, The Netherlands is a really atheïstic country, here basically nobody cares or even talks about this subject in daily life. But there are still plenty of theïsts and believers.
man thats some crazy culture shocking going straight to meeting a JW missionary
Yeah... those types _deserve_ to be assigned Missionary """work""" in Beijing...
Yeah now realize half of america is almost that insane.
@@mimszanadunstedt441 and the other half believes that "sufficiently" pandering _to_ the insane half with _another_ layer of kid gloves will solve fuck-all...
As someone from austria (the mozart and arnie country) I never "came out" as an atheist, I just was. Your channel was actually the first time I heard about that as a concept.
That was back when I lacked the terminology to express my atheism to other people.
I left the church as soon as I could, because theism never sounded plausible to me (plus because of the mandatory church tax we had to pay 😅)
I think it’s so interesting that, from my personal experience, this self designation of atheist (and especially identifying with and engaging with atheist culture) really tends to flourish in places where religiosity is the default, or with people who were born into religion and subsequently left that religion. My friend is from China and has lived in the US for 6 years now, and when we were discussing each others cultural background she seemed perplexed that I called myself an “atheist” and that, by US standards, she and almost everyone she knows back in China are atheists, too. Similarly, my friends who were born into atheist families tend to call themselves atheists, but are pretty apathetic about the whole thing. They don’t really think about their atheism or engage with the community much (of course, these are huge generalizations). Meanwhile, I grew up in Lutheranism and leaving the religion was a hugely personal journey for me and the atheist community on UA-cam really helped me work through that time in my life, and I still consider myself a part of the community. Proximity breeds contempt? or whatever. I don’t really have anywhere in going with this lol
Great observations! You’re definitely on to something here. This was my thesis for my “8 Types of Atheists in US Culture” video.
“If you live in a context where doing, thinking, and being a certain thing is common enough, then NOT doing, thinking, and being that certain thing inevitably becomes a thing of its own. If the context is right, the negation of an identity can become its own identity.”
Great point and can be applied to other things like race. Racism is ingrained in certain cultures, while other cultures don't care about race at all - they fight about other things. @@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic
I understand why you would narrow the focus to the Anglosphere in your analysis, but I think it also makes it much easier for you to make a case for the existence of an atheist culture, since all these people already share a somewhat unifying Anglo culture. There are just as many, if not more, atheists in other parts of the world who identify with very few elements of the purported atheist culture that is mostly based on stereotypes that originated elsewhere.
What is being described is a subculture.
@@MitchYouCantScratch Drew should've used that term, using "culture" for such a specific group of ideas that only a niche shares seems very odd.
@@San_Vitosubculture is a type of culture, we're mostly talking semantics now
Hehehe i love that the multisymbol thumbnail is taking off. Nice addition to the channel!
I think Hitch actually said 'I leave it to the faithful to burn each other's churches and mosques and synagogues, which they can be always relied upon to do'.
7% of all wars in recorded history have been religious. Rest have been political or territorial. These are 123 wars (7%) out of the 1763.
The number drops to 4% if you exclude all Islamic wars.
@@Altusfonzthis is complete bullshit 😂 those "political" wars were still based entirely upon some rich white Christian man who thinks God chose HIM specifically to rule the world. Hitler was a Catholic.
And you're telling me everything the Roman CATHOLIC church did wasn't religious? 😂 The inquisition? The war in Iraq and Afghanistan was SUPPOSEDLY over religion, and you know every white boy Christian soldier was out there to "annihilate Islam"
@@Altusfonz Cool, what are the percentages for the other major world religions (I'm genuinely curious)
:0 where do you get these numbers from? How is it quantified what motivation is behind a war? What about if a war might be seen as political AND religious? How do you delineate what one war is, rather than breaking it up into littler wars, or smooshing otherwise distinct wars together? And what about the “magnitude” of each war, like other stuff such as duration, size of the area on which it takes place, size of the armies, size of the belligerents, size of the armies proportional to the belligerents’ whole forces, etc?
@@Altusfonz As has been said already, it's completely impossible to separate the religious aspects from the political ones from, at the very very least, most of history.
I tend to refer to myself as a spiritually inclined non-theist rather than an atheist or agnostic. The "spiritual" bit for me relates to the wonder and reverence I feel for the amorphous nature of relationships and interconnectedness we share with each other and the physical world around us.
I'm a weird Atheist. I'm an engineer and physicist. I have zero faith in any religion and can be best summed up as a Cosmic Nihilist. And yet I wake up every morning and listen to Bart Erhman or other Christian history videos. (Sometimes by actual scholarly apologist) I'm slowly building an entire bookshelf of books on the Bible and have read most of them.
Like... I'm obsessed with Christian history like most people are obsessed with Greek Mythology.
I don't think that's weird at all for an atheist. I'm also a physicist and regularly listen to Bart Ehrman and Religion for Breakfast because like all cultures and traditions humans manifest, religion is fascinating. It's also good practice to be informed with an opponent's arguments.
I have finally resorted to repeated, patient response of "My personal beliefs are very private to me" and if pressed with the yeah-but-you-believe-in...I say "my personal beliefs are very private to me and not up for your curiosity"
Yes! Weve been waiting for this!
I think you might have just Dropped an "atheist guide" for me, a new atheist because I hadn't heard of some people and Ideas mentioned here and would very much love to explore them all.. Thank you GM!
Me either! I know I don't believe, but I never felt the need to, yknow, study it?
I'm a life long atheist, but half of this content was also new to me. Thanks GM for the cultural tutorial.
I've been an atheist for 38 years and barely heard of some of those stuff, while not sharing others at all.
Sweden is fun, a place American christians should visit, mostly atheist but with a great acceptance for religions and have christianity as a part of the culture for it is a part of our history, I am an atheist from Sweden that have read the bible, and can go to church for weddings and so, and I am a member of the church to preserve and keep historical buildings open.
Given the obscene amount of "real" taxes are spent on the upkeep of the buildings, you shouldn't be giving the Church anything, the cultural heritage is well taken care of. Your church fee (we aren't allowed to call it tax anymore) goes to salaries and the Church of Sweden's administration, as well as upkeep of some artifacts. But you are free to do as you please, but paying for building upkeep is the one thing the fees doesn't do. That money comes from the state.
Finland as well! Even when christianity is a state religion, you really don't see religion anywhere outside some public holidays. Religion as a school subject is non-denominational (and can be opted-out), you don't see crosses anywhere (at homes, worn), no-one uses religious sayings (bless you, god forbit etc.) and it's very impolite to talk about religious issues or one's aligment at all. Even when over 50% of people are officially christians, they just voluntary pay church tax and that's it. It's not perfect, as all companies have to pay church tax and it's really difficult to have a loved one buried to anywhere else than to a christian semetary. In a way, it's easy to breather here!
I would much prefer to live where Christianity is more of a cultural tradition than my country, a country where Christianity is a an active political force people are using to control our lives. Sigh.
I heard the birthrates are pretty low.
Much better knowing people
I recognise the Atheist A from an old brazilian youtube channel called EuAteu (roughly translated, AtheistMe). It was definitely his logo - but I have no idea if he got it from somewhere else or the other way around. He was definitely a big deal tho, he used to open all his videos with "Hi, I'm Iuri and I'm an atheist." which was incredibly taboo at the time in this country (and honestly kinda still is) and was the first widely popular atheist here. He also later helped found atheist movements with other youtubers and I think he got involved in international projects too since he lived overseas. He has since kinda vanished but he was a big deal for a long time.
Drew - My wife and I would be an interesting study to look at. We are both atheists and politically progressive, but while I have immersed myself in the atheist culture online, she has not. I have read Dawkins, Harris, Sagan, and others. I watch many UA-cam atheists, joined the American Humanists, and blogged as an atheist on the Daily Kos spin-off "Street Prophets" when it first launched. But when I mention Dawkins, Harris, Forrest Valkai, Matt Dillahunty, Emma Thorne, Steven Woodford, you, Alex O'Connor, the Atheist Experience, The Line, the problem of evil, Kalam, pre-sup, biblical contradictions, etc., my wife has no idea what I am talking about. I was raised Catholic and went through de-conversion. She was raised non-religious, and doesn't have any of that baggage. She knows the Darwin Fish and Flying Spaghetti Monster through me, but she doesn't know the teapot, the invisible pink unicorn, or the puddle. She knows Kirk Cameron went crazy creationist with some mustachioed guy. So, while I would identify with a lot of the things you talked about in this video, she would barely know any of them.
Why is that hair flip at 37:30 so funny? 😂
On New Atheists, as the internet saying goes:
A New Atheist is just any old atheist that the Church cannot legally set on fire anymore.
Thanks Drew.
My father resented the religious upbringing his mother forced on him.
And promised he would never put that on his kids.
This was a huge conflict between him and his mother. But he shielded my brother and me from her.
He never spoke good or ill about religion. Basically never talked about it at all.
So i had no religious teachings or indoctrination and have no memory of ever believing. I just always saw religion for the nonsince it is.
The few time i did attend church with my grandmother i remember looking around and thinking, seriously, no way these people can believe this.
Coming out and deconversion stories sound horrible. But also strange and alien to me.
My favourite thing about Tim Minchin is that he played Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar. Made me laugh out loud when I realized he's an atheist.
You sort of touched on it but half the reason you get so much pushback is it is far too broad a grouping to be useful. Trying to come up with a overall atheist culture is like trying to come up with a unified theist culture. It is like trying to group Evangelical Christian snake handlers with Shinto priests and trying to come up with cultural touchstones that applies to both of them and everyone in between. Even limiting it to just English speaking North American atheists is still like trying to group the Mormons with the Catholics.
i loved this video so much. i think this one is one of the best videos you made. as a Turkish atheist, I believe most young atheists here too are familiar with the things you've listed. we also have Turkish influencers probably all young atheists know. Such as Evrim Ağacı (which also debunked "Sözler Köşkü" like you and have millions of views) or Efe Aydal (I learned about Dawkins because of him.) anyways, great video.
Couple of points about the video:
1. When you said the LATE James Randi, I thought I misheard you and rushed to rewind the video. Unfortunately I didn’t mishear you, and extra unfortunately you were correct. I can’t believe he died in 2020! I’m sure a huge fan of his and I find this out now?! 4 years later??? I loved watching his debunking videos, very entertaining. I guess with all that was going on in 2020, this just slipped my mind. I’m saddened to hear this, but I guess what brings some comfort is knowing he lived a long life, and inspired and entertained a ton of people.
2. The random Olive Garden review was out of nowhere, and I loved it! It’s a nice little distraction. Honestly, I thought you were about to do an ad break, so I’m happy it wasn’t that. Also, it was quite entertaining, so I’m all for more of them, especially in longer (and more serious) videos.
3. Overall, great video! I’ve never really thought about ‘atheist culture’ but you made some good points. I guess it does make sense for some type of culture or community to build up when enough people believe in something (or lack thereof in this case). I didn’t realize this, but since we’re in similar age groups, I’ve actually listened to a lot of the same content as you. That was interesting to learn.
JJ McCollough will inevitably take over this entire website
I for one welcome our new JJ overlord
My watershed scientific moments were via 1970s TV with Carl Sagan, James Burke (Connections), Magnus Pike/David Bellamy/David Attenborough.
I've always referred to this as "skeptic culture" there's an important distinction there.
The problem with saying atheists have a culture is that, for example, budists are atheist, do they share in all these cultural elements? What about people who were raised atheist and have never given a thought to the possibility of a god?
I think you've just demonstrated that the premise of the video is fundamentally flawed.
@@Username78537It's complicated. The video is not endorsing anything. But the catch is that we can be influenced by these cultures even without our knowledge, just like how the wordings of notions used by ex-muslims and ex-christians still contain the influence of their religion.
Influence, pain, trauma, pleasure, etc all exists outside of binaries
As a European and a history student I find that your approach to this topic has been a little restricted. It was interesting of course but to someone's who's first language is not English all the while coming from a country who is in majority atheist, it feels as though the focus on America is a little counterintuitive especially considering the reality of atheistic presence in the world.
Maybe the focus was meant to be America ! But in any case I find that the european and asian cases are more interesting and fondational to the birth and development of atheistic thought.
The American atheist community might be the biggest one in the future, as I believe it is the one displaying the most growth, but it isn't the biggest in the world today, by a longshot.
I think that secularism also has a fascinating history especially in regards to how it developped alongside republican ideals and principles all over Europe. The communist atheism is also interesting. There is just much, much more to this culture than what I've seen in this video.
The fight against the power of the church is also particularly interesting in catholic countries in which the rupture from the faith and church was enacted BY atheistic republicans, and not by protestants or kings that appointed themselves holy leaders.
The "cult of reason" once inhabited the halls of Notre-Dame of Paris, during the revolution.
The Enlightenment is none other than a metaphor for reason bringing light in a world of obscurantist faith and superstition...
TLDR : American atheists really aren't as big (yet) as European or Asian atheists and also, they haven't played as big a historical role in the development of atheism.
It's so awesome to read about the European experience with Atheism. It really is different in the US/Canada because Christianity is just SO BIG here. I am super jealous of people in countries with majority Atheist because it affects human rights so significantly as well. We have the stupidest debates about things that most Europeans would see as obvious and question why it's so controversial. For example, I left a comment on a Taylor Swift analysis video and expressed my opinion about her religious references and suggested she may not even be Christian anymore but can't come out because it would be so detrimental to her image. Someone replied and said something like "It's not controversial or taboo to be atheist!". I'm like... you're not American, are you? lol 😹
It can be frustrating living in North America with this stupid stuff.
I agree. The specific atheist submovement that Skeptic is talking about emerged relatively recently (1970s) primarily in the US as a synthesis between a consumer protection movement based around scientific skepticism and a reaction to the ultra conservative reaction to changes in American education to compete with the USSR.
I honestly don't think it's had a huge impact on atheist thought as a whole but it certainly had an impact on how people engage with ideas online. It's worth cataloging and tracking its history at least.
Something a bit annoying about this video is that it's presented in a way where the timeline of these events is not clear.
@@moonbeam0099 I think an interesting fact is that the American elite is much less religious than the American people. At least that was certainly true of the American revolution, as most of the founding fathers were not Christians but Deists, which is associated as one of the major first steps towards atheism.
@@PunishedFelix Right. I agree the rivalry with the USSR made the US more ritually religious and even delonstratively pious. That's when the hand on the Bible was implemented and that's also when religion started being associated to nationalism more directly. Christian nationalism is also absurd simply because of the fact that the founding fathers of the American nation were deists, not christians.
Czech or Estonian?
Not claiming to have a culture is less of a defense against these things being projected onto them, and more so literally the atheist denying theistic conjectures about their beliefs. We do not assume a Thai teenager who shares not in their cultures beliefs to have any of these aspects beyond simply what the word *atheist* implies - that they hold no belief in a supernatural system. The same would apply to a Thai teenager who is a theist - we do not assume them to be a follower of an Abrahamic denomination simply on account of their theism, or to have a sky daddy, etc.
Great video! It still feels awkward for those that don't spend any time thinking about it (up to not wanting to be identified by theistic designation) or perhaps it's exaggerating the "no atheist culture" because it lacks visibility or any organized persuasion still. Also, on a pedantic note, this comes down to most examples being anti-theism or some aim, that strictly speaking, atheism is not any kind of belief or culture, like an non-stamp collector. It might be in this last example, involving a dispute about the meaning of "athiest" where the main contention is.
There's communities of atheists which have a culture. But that is the culture of those communities, not atheists as a whole which do in fact not have a culture for the exact reason non-stamp-collectors don't; any such culture would just be general human culture, not anything specific to atheists.
@@Llortnerof exactly, bingo. It's a moot and pedantic note though, since we can't really call it anything else either. Atheist culture it is, (even if it technically it isn't).
_God Delusion_ was the first book I read when I started questioning my faith.
It was instrumental in helping me think about the issue.
I badly wanna read the hardback but I'm broke
@@pythondrink I'd give you mine but I didn't keep any physical books when I escaped America.
I mostly read on Kindle now.
That said, that book was so popular you can probably find a used hardback cheap on eBay or similar.
I think it's more accurate to call it Atheistic Cultures rather than to lump them all together as a singular culture.
Even amongst English speakers, I don't really ascribe myself to specific types like the "Amazing Atheist" whose early misogyny really kind of outed that sort of right-wing atheism out early to me.
Christopher Hichens was an incredible journalist and writer.
Loved the video. Wish that you'd included Patton Oswald's classic "sky cake" routine in the section on atheist comedians
Oh wow! I've been atheist for a few years and I didn't recognize well over half of the culture points that you brought up. That is so fascinating to me - I really feel like I have kind of been missing out on a community that exists. All this time there were all these organizations, and community events and conferences and I had no idea. That might not have been the intent of the video, but thank you, Drew! Drew!
Been an atheist for less than 2 years and I was already familiar with every single damn thing mentioned in this video. I guess I'm that committed. I mean, it's entertaining.
I've been an atheist all my life and didn't know at least half - if not most - of the info in this video. A lack of belief in something can just mean it's not something you pay any attention to.
I am glad it all exists, though. I can imagine that someone who used to be a member of a religious community could feel pretty lost when they leave that community. It's also good to have so much support when they live in an area where they're ostracized for their beliefs.
I've been an atheist for 38 years (my whole life) and I didn't know of most of the stuff of these video. We're not a community nor a culture. Maybe militant atheists like Drew make up a subculture, but that's it.
A thatched house near me has the FSM as a finial. Honestly, I fair near died laughing when I first saw it. So good.
I thought you were gone due to the wife's health, but happy to see that you have a little time to make a video.
We’re finally back! Already working on the next one
That Olive Garden segment was adorable and now I want to take my wife on a date there. So thanks for that.
Also, Spamalot is currently having a revival run on Broadway and it's awesome! My wife and I went to the very first show on Halloween and I got a hoodie that says "Always look on the bright side of life" on the back. Haha I highly recommend seeing it if you visit NYC while it's still on stage.
I think perhaps the response is confusing "culture" with "worldview." It is true that atheism is not a worldview...it is a singular proposition. However, there is a culture that we've built around us...and I see no problem with that. Furthermore, I think it is a perfectly reasonable development. Putting aside the existence of deities does naturally lead to certain other ideas, including promotion of rational thought, a higher regard for science, and opposition to imposition of religion by political or social authority. As an atheist only for about five years now, I'm glad for the existence of atheist culture.