I still have the last season, unwatched, waiting for me on my disk. I was a APS public servant and it was too hard to watch. An episode would take me 3 weeks to watch, having to pause it and bury my head in my hands every 3 minutes before running off to do something more fun, because it was way too much like a combination of work and watching the news.
It's really true, without exaggeration. Younger people have this starry-eyed view of government vs private-sector. I've worked in both, and the amount of money taken from taxpayers and used to make things worse is astonishing.
Public servants are 1/2 the problem. Embedded bureaucrats who are more interested in making their job more important than actually accomplishing anything. They're the ones who make up the stupid rules that make any government project take 3X as long as require 50 extra administrators to install a street lamp.
This is when they'll just hire consultants to tell them what they want to hear and then can blame them when it inevitably ends in a parliamentary inquiry.
Yeah but is Jevons Paradox really also the same in your field? I know it namely from mine in environmental science, where productivity gains from improved efficiency lead to overall growth in aggregate production.
@@kyletopfer7818 Honestly, this 'version' of it in the video is a bastardisation for automobiles. With trains, for example, you will get more revenue to increase frequencies. Which will encourage more people to live closer to stations, and if the agency is a developer/landlord of adjacent property... more revenue to improve services! And as a bonus, more energy efficiency per capita... saving people money they can invest instead. Sure, you could value capture an increase in motorists with a congestion tax, whilst you continue to expand, but you will continue to demolish houses (that pay property tax), people will commute longer (increasing total maintance needed), and will likely ruin metro centres even further. And guess what a lot of suburbs use to slow down their decay? Metro centres! Ruining them will make things worse... If you were to increase the congestion tax as value capture method - instead of a way to manage congestion on adequate roads, ideally with active & public transport investments (but I think it would still would do good even without these) - to meet these... a lot less would drive, defeating this weird policy I made up. Society is subsidising driving, in my offered situation and right now. And, subsidise in a very ruiness way, eating slowly away at society itself, instead of having a net positive BCR. Tho, worth pointing out that this stuff is more about the tendency to continue to expand. Stuff is less worse when expanding a few select, sparse roads into four lanes. To create a sparse arterial network, with a few sparse large intersections, like you find in the Netherlands. This type of stuff would usually have a net positive BCR, but not really that high.
@@C0deH0wler whilst I agree with alot of the core of your argument, it comes across a neoliberalist capitalist take, and I assume you were focusing on those arguments because you think they're more likely to persuade people who otherwise wouldn't listen to what for me is the key. Namely the energy andsoace efficiency, the better places, the access to jobs and places of interest for less well-off families, and the climate and ecological impacts.
@@kyletopfer7818 ABSOLUTELY. My dad is an economist, he was working on sims for planning out City Link and other freeway expansions in the early 90s. The corridors need to be secured DECADES before you actually need them, to provide extra slack in the system due to Jevon's Paradox. I was like 12 at the time, so I loved the joke for personal nostalgia reasons along with everything else. ❤️ Jevon himself was an economist in the era of the Industrial Revolution, so we've known about the problem in various ways for more than 150 years!
It’s true though. Amazingly true. Everyone in Academia knows how to fix a study, and that most of them are not objective. Also, I spent most of my career in tech. Near the end I figured out that most of the “progress” from the late 80’s to present day had really been speeding up the process of garbage in, garbage out. We made it so that idiots could use more tools, but the tools haven’t really improved so much as they have just gotten prettier. So, that AI is just reflecting what it was fed. Induced demand theory doesn’t gain or lose any validity because a computer applies it. What’s most amazing is the very people who will scream how absolutely true it is will deny the underlying principle and vice versa because it’s not convenient to their “side”.
The WA Labor minister for transport was being interviewed for the 6pm news with the newly opened freeway widening behind him. When asked about traffic implement he informed the reporter that “problem is when the travel gets better more people use the road and it clogs up” It was laugh your ass off TV.
The thing is, even though it's clogged, there are more people choosing to use it. They make tge choice as to whether it's worth it, so there's an improvement.
In 1984, I took a course at a world-famous university titled, "Computer Aided Design in Environmental Systems". 1/3 of the class was traffic engineering, so we learned of this principle very quickly. Ten years later, a newspaper article quoted a head traffic engineer near the shore as saying, "We didn't realize more people would start using [the bypass] once it was built and made it faster to get to the beach!" That was when it really clicked for ne that the people actually making the decisions are often not the smartest ones.
The people making the decisions are not the people taking those classes. They just know they saw/heard about a shiny fancy new thing that sounds good. And they want it for themselves.
This is too much like my reality. We produced a proposal spec for a project with £60m of benefits, the powers-that-be said £100m would be better. They made us put down £100m and then work backwards to get that outcome. The final spec wasnt worth the paper it was written on but got approved because it said £100m. In 9 months I'll probably be in for a reaming because we're £40m short
@SirJonathonDanielGregorySrVthe yeah I pretty much nailed it, only thing I missed was how many times I'd have to write the same information across briefing notes, quarterly performance updates and management information reports
Does anyone even use it other than tourists?. I was there all those years ago when they built the Eastern Distributor, and the relentless hype and over-runs and delays . . . and then it turned the streets into a siht-show. Absolute chaos, and questions asked in Parliament and every single Sydney road user KNEW it was a disaster and yet the entire time the spin-doctors ran their mouths telling everyone it was great.
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 The tunnel and the Eastern Distributor get plenty of use. But the Utopia episode is correct. You cannot build your way out of road congestion.
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 why would tourists use the tunnel? Wouldn't they prefer to drive over the bridge that has a view? Driving from north of the bridge to the airport or south of botany bay it makes sense because it connects straight into the xct. The problem is when there's no decent public transport to support those routes, everyone has to pile in and it becomes a nightmare. What Utopia highlighted is that often it's deliberately done so that commuters give up in frustration and move closer to work or change schools for their kids.
Nah, never credit to malignancy, what might be credited to stupidity. ONE person might think to themself "I will push this project, because it is going to increase congestion, which will force people to move, or use public transport* and that is my real hidden aim". But TWO people, more than two?. A secret known to two people, is no secret at all. They would never dare be so obvious, because they would be pillared when it came out, and it always comes out. And tourists use things because they are not from there, and know no better. The tunnel speeds you out of the city . . . except it leads you right into the eternal congestion of the Cahill Expressway, and DOUBLES the traffic that goes out and jams at Woolloomooloo. It has never been as effective as they promised, because it LEADS into congestion. ( Spoilers, ALL their traffic ideas run into the fact that Sydney is constantly congested. )@@trapd00rspider
So that's the reason why they are building a network of mass transport lanes in the city, to remove the congestion. Been to Brisbane this year and found that they were building a mass transport option using buses to get people around.
Public transport is awful. Firstly you have to share with the public. Have you ever met the public ? You are at the mercy of timetables which can change at any time with no notice. You have to wait IN THE RAIN for the bus to show up. If you are catching a bus at night sometimes the driver can't actually see you in the bus stop AND KEEPS DRIVING PAST. You are at the mercy of unions, vandals, planned maintenance and unexpected breakdowns. It is no cheaper to pay the fare than to drive a car. A car can get you somewhere in 5 minutes but public transport will take you 30 minutes. Bottom line - Keep building roads or I will vote for the other mob.
@@captainpoppleton Not sure if satire but lol car expensive. you have to first own one. then maintain it. and buy insurance. and fuel it with big oil. then your suburb taxes don't even cover the sewage pipes running under the roads they're attached to in addition to power lines and asphault cracks. then ya gotta walk through a dangerous parking lot at whatever mall you're going to. then your car breaks down and now you can't go to work and now you don't have money to fix your car.
The good think: At some point, it's stop getting worse. You only need to wait until it's faster to walk (assuming cycling an public transit would need to use the same congested roads).
Build more roads, you get more traffic. Need to put caps on who can be on the road at peak times…..gov: no, we prefer everyone to fight with each other for road space….it’s a dog eat dog world, and a free market economy means we can’t make rules to stop it. By having more cars on the road than it can support, we make sure people use more petrol, which means more trips to the petrol station, which means more excise tax collected plus GST added on. So therefore we can’t afford to not have traffic.
Naw it's just that they're short sighted and putting in PT scares them. The solutions are easy from a design and budget perspective: Light and heavy rail, bike paths, sending cars around the long way, more walkability. Done. The ideal models for this are all well understood, if done right they cost WAY less in the long run, and they're only hard to implement because people are scared of change and politicians are spineless.
@@darrenrobinson9041 Nah, that's not the point. Car transit is inefficient transit so when you add car infrastructure (like lanes), you just get more inefficient transit. If you want to impove transit, you need to go from cars to something more efficient: walking, biking, bus, trains, etc. So if you have inefficient car traffic, you add an efficient train line, and that improves overall transit for a long while. It's why Tokyo has the population of Canada yet has good mobility: insanely efficient urbanism.
Mobility consultants and made this edit from an Australian satirical show, Utopia.It's now on Netflix, www.netflix.com/au/title/80063251?s=i&trkid=258593161&vlang=en&clip=81440235
The Working Dog team are veteran Aussie Comedy creators. They've done sketch comedy - the D-Generation and The Late Show; media satire - Frontline; Films including The Castle and The Dish; And government comedies like Hollowmen and this one - Utopia. Seriously, they've been at it for 40 years now!
Utopia. Can't find it here either (Europe). Since Australia was initially made up of thieves.. I'm not saying you should, I'm just informing you on the origins.
Here in the USA this is an unfortunate reality as well. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people clamor for the widening of a congested road or building a new one altogether. And then every. Single. Time. It gets worse. A 4-lane road that sucks becomes a 6-lane road that sucks. And the "bypass" doesn't bypass jack shit, because it inevitably gets just as bad as what it was supposed to bypass. The idea of enabling alternate modes of transportation is the only thing that comes close to a long-term solution for congestion, but it is such a hateful idea to most Americans. After enough pressure cities will sometimes throw some token money at a crappy little bus system or something that inevitably fails so the carbrains can say "sEe iT dOeSn'T woRk!!1!!" We are stuck in a cycle of car dependency that won't stop until our cities are bankrupt and blighted off the map. Even then they'll be clamoring for just 1 more lane and opposing bike lanes and buses.
Yes you need mass transit, but the same paradox applies. The reality is that whatever transportation system you use will inevitably become congested as long as the city continues to grow, which is a good thing. So the choice is to grow or not. “Back to normal levels” in this case being more commuters arriving at roughly the same speed as before. Unfortunately this doesn’t appeal to existing city dwellers, because Growth is always bad for them. Increasing their rent/hassle/competition. So selling existing tax payers on growth is always full of some deceit.
Growth will always pose challenges. Better to have more public transport, shared transport and active transport options than more cars which are mostly single occupancy/driver only.
If you're going to spend a lot of money to try and improve transit times and reduce road traffic then for the love of god JUST BUILT PUBLIC TRANSPORT NETWORKS! Buses might move slowly but they're 1 vehicle and can carry thousands of passengers per day, many of which would previously have been using individual cars. Do the same with trains for longer distances and before you know it you've reduced car usage immensely.
its still doesnt make much sense like if it will be stuck after 5 years does that means there is more vehicles? and if yes wouldnt that make old model worse.
This is all fine and very clever, but just remember not to pretend that induced demand doesn't exist in other areas as well - if you aren't careful going down this road can lead to a defeatist "build nothing" attitude that will inevitably lead to national stagnation, higher prices and poverty. House prices would be a good example - "if you build it they will come", and you'll need to build yet more houses - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't build at all, as the alternative is often going to be homelessness in any sort of growing population. Even the "lefty greeny" option of more public transport is very susceptible to induced demand as well. Here in London the new Elizabeth Line is packed full already most mornings, and new housing developments are going up along its route to take advantage of its quicker links all the time. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, its growth! It just needs to be factored in when building new infrastructure. Of course population of a city (and demand) won't necessarily go up forever, but it's pretty fair to say that in a great majority it will tend to increase as much as local infrastructure allows.. and then quite a bit more!
A train line can carry easily carry 60,000 passengers an hour though - while a freeway lane can do max 2,400 - and that's in perfect conditions. You build a 4 lane freeway and you'll get congestion at around 9,600 passengers an hour. A train line already has a smaller foot print and is casually running at 1/6th it's max passengers at that usage. Chuck in an advanced automated Metro on that same train line and you can get up to 90,000 passenger an hour. Train lines are just so much better for scale.
@@shraka Yeah I don't disagree, I live near the Victoria line for instance, which I'm reliably informed is one of the most efficient metro lines in the world! I'm just saying to be careful when making the argument that people using infrastructure means it has failed, because I see it a lot already with the newly opened Elizabeth line, and also with opposition to other train lines like HS2.. it's quite amazing really, people oppose infrastructure both because they have decided it's not needed, but also it's somehow going to be completely full.
@@JT29501 I see. I think of it in terms of what the alternative is. Adding a lane to a freeway that results in more traffic jams within a year or two is a terrible use of resources because spending that same money on improving rail would have been much more effective use of money. A fully utilised train line also has way better long term ROI, so yeah a fully utilised train is a good thing.
"How do we launch this?" - the guy knows the issue is impossible to solve ahead of time, he only cares about the optics and how it is sold to the public.
I’m not a right winger, but induced demand was a flimsy study. Alternative hypothesis: Since they only studied large cities, those improvements were so overdue that the new capacity was inadequate.
Have not seen the show but I work at a major city. Im guessing that the suits in the beginning are politicians? Conservative id guess. This is how they reason. And the woman in white reason as 99% of all civil servants in my country. You would have to look for a long time to find any civil servants that would suggest building more roads because, WE KNOW THAT WON'T SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS. Trains, trams, buses, bikes and WALKING. Give me a green city!
in London, every route is crap. Once google map finds out that one route is NOT 100% fucked, it sends the entire traffic through that way so it will be the most fucked up route. There is no way out. It was horrible before GPS, its horrible with GPS. And then the people who try to outsmart googlemap, realize that a route is not better only from the GPS not sending them that way. Sometimes it does happen though, that you keep ignoring googlemap and suddenly, for a very brief time, you find yourself on no mans land, no cars, no traffic and you can glide like a buttered dildo. than the AI is cathching up and its all fucked again.
Utopia is the best ABC series that has been pretty much ignored by the US, and that is a shame considering the drivel it has managed to pick up on, like the execrable US Office. At least the US IT Crowd pilot thankfully died quietly. But, never waste your time UNDERestimating the intelligence of the US ..., just ask Duh-Nald.
Brisbane 👍🏽 This city is a psychologically dysfunctional Band-aid fix of a "city". Nothing will ever come good of it. Hey let's spend 2billion on upgrading a stadium with 6000 seats 😅 Hey let's build a tunnel for trains, and got 4x over the budget Hey let's build a spider web of overpasses near the hospital which are ugly and useless in 4 major directions... You cannot get from - 1) Bowen Hills mayne Rd to Gympie rd north (must take tunnel) 2) Gympie rd northbound to Abbotsford Rd Bowen Hills northbound. Must go long way 3) south bound Gympie rd to Abbotsford Rd again... - it's a giant concrete spiderweb of shite with a boral plant that only directs in a few ways... 😅 Dysfunctional and stoopid 😅
"Do I have to be there myself?"
"You were supposed to be there."
"I got stuck in traffic" 😂😂
We know, we watched the video.
This is not comedy. This is therapy for public servants.
You wouldn't want to laugh. You'd want to punch the tv.
Yep. I can't really watch it.
I still have the last season, unwatched, waiting for me on my disk. I was a APS public servant and it was too hard to watch. An episode would take me 3 weeks to watch, having to pause it and bury my head in my hands every 3 minutes before running off to do something more fun, because it was way too much like a combination of work and watching the news.
It's really true, without exaggeration.
Younger people have this starry-eyed view of government vs private-sector. I've worked in both, and the amount of money taken from taxpayers and used to make things worse is astonishing.
Public servants are 1/2 the problem.
Embedded bureaucrats who are more interested in making their job more important than actually accomplishing anything. They're the ones who make up the stupid rules that make any government project take 3X as long as require 50 extra administrators to install a street lamp.
This is when they'll just hire consultants to tell them what they want to hear and then can blame them when it inevitably ends in a parliamentary inquiry.
They had a scene where that exact thing happened :D
@@unematrix lol, I think their line was "What do you want the report to say?"
Think Rozelle Interchange.
"Have you ever heard of the Jevons Paradox?"
"I was hoping it was a death metal band"
As an economist this line made me splutter out my coffee.
As a mobility planner working in transit, this is the reason I don't watch Utopia. I already see too much of this in my real world!
Yeah but is Jevons Paradox really also the same in your field? I know it namely from mine in environmental science, where productivity gains from improved efficiency lead to overall growth in aggregate production.
@@kyletopfer7818 Honestly, this 'version' of it in the video is a bastardisation for automobiles. With trains, for example, you will get more revenue to increase frequencies. Which will encourage more people to live closer to stations, and if the agency is a developer/landlord of adjacent property... more revenue to improve services! And as a bonus, more energy efficiency per capita... saving people money they can invest instead.
Sure, you could value capture an increase in motorists with a congestion tax, whilst you continue to expand, but you will continue to demolish houses (that pay property tax), people will commute longer (increasing total maintance needed), and will likely ruin metro centres even further. And guess what a lot of suburbs use to slow down their decay? Metro centres! Ruining them will make things worse...
If you were to increase the congestion tax as value capture method - instead of a way to manage congestion on adequate roads, ideally with active & public transport investments (but I think it would still would do good even without these) - to meet these... a lot less would drive, defeating this weird policy I made up. Society is subsidising driving, in my offered situation and right now. And, subsidise in a very ruiness way, eating slowly away at society itself, instead of having a net positive BCR.
Tho, worth pointing out that this stuff is more about the tendency to continue to expand. Stuff is less worse when expanding a few select, sparse roads into four lanes. To create a sparse arterial network, with a few sparse large intersections, like you find in the Netherlands. This type of stuff would usually have a net positive BCR, but not really that high.
@@C0deH0wler whilst I agree with alot of the core of your argument, it comes across a neoliberalist capitalist take, and I assume you were focusing on those arguments because you think they're more likely to persuade people who otherwise wouldn't listen to what for me is the key. Namely the energy andsoace efficiency, the better places, the access to jobs and places of interest for less well-off families, and the climate and ecological impacts.
@@kyletopfer7818 ABSOLUTELY. My dad is an economist, he was working on sims for planning out City Link and other freeway expansions in the early 90s. The corridors need to be secured DECADES before you actually need them, to provide extra slack in the system due to Jevon's Paradox.
I was like 12 at the time, so I loved the joke for personal nostalgia reasons along with everything else. ❤️
Jevon himself was an economist in the era of the Industrial Revolution, so we've known about the problem in various ways for more than 150 years!
More buses needed
X: I thought we were going to be data driven?
Y: The data doesn't know what it's doing.
Lamentably familiar to anyone working with data.
This is one of the funniest and most accurate things I've ever seen, like a modern Autralian match for Yes Minister 😂
Utopia and Hollowmen were really good shows
@@Myne1001 New season of Utopia coming this year!
I actually felt nauseated and angry watching this. I’ve worked with people like that. Yes, it was in Canberra.
@@TheRealJavahead my wife too with current vic govt
@@TheRealJavahead Same.
"I knew AI was a bunch of greenies" My sides immediately died after this RIP
"I got stuck in traffic" was what got me.
It’s true though. Amazingly true. Everyone in Academia knows how to fix a study, and that most of them are not objective. Also, I spent most of my career in tech. Near the end I figured out that most of the “progress” from the late 80’s to present day had really been speeding up the process of garbage in, garbage out. We made it so that idiots could use more tools, but the tools haven’t really improved so much as they have just gotten prettier.
So, that AI is just reflecting what it was fed. Induced demand theory doesn’t gain or lose any validity because a computer applies it. What’s most amazing is the very people who will scream how absolutely true it is will deny the underlying principle and vice versa because it’s not convenient to their “side”.
@@nunyabidness3075 That's why I don't like science. What's it ever done for us? Now the middle ages, there's a way to live.
@@CatatonicImperfect 🤣😂🤣
People miss the point, in Australia, induced demand can be counted as "vehicles per household".
Jesus Christ this is just humor applied to 100% real shit. I love it. Anyone who has worked in this kind of stuff knows this. Very well written.
Realistic Satire...
The WA Labor minister for transport was being interviewed for the 6pm news with the newly opened freeway widening behind him. When asked about traffic implement he informed the reporter that “problem is when the travel gets better more people use the road and it clogs up”
It was laugh your ass off TV.
I’m trying to find the quote. Do you know which channel and date?
@@zipidi it would have been 4 years ago, north bound freeway widening of Kwinana freeway at South street. 6pm news covered it , commercial MSM.
The thing is, even though it's clogged, there are more people choosing to use it. They make tge choice as to whether it's worth it, so there's an improvement.
In 1984, I took a course at a world-famous university titled, "Computer Aided Design in Environmental Systems". 1/3 of the class was traffic engineering, so we learned of this principle very quickly.
Ten years later, a newspaper article quoted a head traffic engineer near the shore as saying, "We didn't realize more people would start using [the bypass] once it was built and made it faster to get to the beach!"
That was when it really clicked for ne that the people actually making the decisions are often not the smartest ones.
The people making the decisions are not the people taking those classes. They just know they saw/heard about a shiny fancy new thing that sounds good. And they want it for themselves.
This is so accurate I actually feel physically ill
This is too much like my reality. We produced a proposal spec for a project with £60m of benefits, the powers-that-be said £100m would be better. They made us put down £100m and then work backwards to get that outcome. The final spec wasnt worth the paper it was written on but got approved because it said £100m. In 9 months I'll probably be in for a reaming because we're £40m short
Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - great comment and you're right about the reaming unfortunately
It's been nine months.
@SirJonathonDanielGregorySrVthe yeah I pretty much nailed it, only thing I missed was how many times I'd have to write the same information across briefing notes, quarterly performance updates and management information reports
“The data doesn’t know what it’s doing.” Incredible
You see, they just didn't add enough lanes.
THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS MORE LANES!🤪
One more lane bro
This isn't comedy satire, it's a documentary.
Yes. The Sydney Harbour Tunnel was great. For a few years.
Does anyone even use it other than tourists?. I was there all those years ago when they built the Eastern Distributor, and the relentless hype and over-runs and delays . . . and then it turned the streets into a siht-show.
Absolute chaos, and questions asked in Parliament and every single Sydney road user KNEW it was a disaster and yet the entire time the spin-doctors ran their mouths telling everyone it was great.
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 The tunnel and the Eastern Distributor get plenty of use. But the Utopia episode is correct. You cannot build your way out of road congestion.
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 why would tourists use the tunnel? Wouldn't they prefer to drive over the bridge that has a view?
Driving from north of the bridge to the airport or south of botany bay it makes sense because it connects straight into the xct. The problem is when there's no decent public transport to support those routes, everyone has to pile in and it becomes a nightmare. What Utopia highlighted is that often it's deliberately done so that commuters give up in frustration and move closer to work or change schools for their kids.
Nah, never credit to malignancy, what might be credited to stupidity. ONE person might think to themself "I will push this project, because it is going to increase congestion, which will force people to move, or use public transport* and that is my real hidden aim".
But TWO people, more than two?. A secret known to two people, is no secret at all. They would never dare be so obvious, because they would be pillared when it came out, and it always comes out.
And tourists use things because they are not from there, and know no better. The tunnel speeds you out of the city . . . except it leads you right into the eternal congestion of the Cahill Expressway, and DOUBLES the traffic that goes out and jams at Woolloomooloo.
It has never been as effective as they promised, because it LEADS into congestion.
( Spoilers, ALL their traffic ideas run into the fact that Sydney is constantly congested. )@@trapd00rspider
This show is really good at slowly burning me up into a smouldering pile of ash.
Huh, Jevons paradox. I just learned something new today.
So that's the reason why they are building a network of mass transport lanes in the city, to remove the congestion. Been to Brisbane this year and found that they were building a mass transport option using buses to get people around.
Don't laugh. I worked for the government. So much money wasted, nothing achieved but what is most important is what bin you throw your rubbish into.
We have such great freeways around Phoenix, Arizona, USA, drivers enjoy driving the wrong way until the inattentive other motorists get in the way.
Roads, never get cost benefit, transit, always gets one with unfavourable assumptions.
It is a temporary decongestion, I can get that from cough syrup.😂
I love that they’re in Brisbane but their modelling is on Melbourne
They are based in Melbourne?
It’s set in Melbourne - the office shots are the top of Spring St on the corner of Nicholson.
Probably part of the incompetent satire.
Councillor - "which city are we in again?"
Brisbane doesn't have traffic lights yet.
@@darrenrobinson9041 we are still arguing whether to name it Brisbane or Meanjin.
That fact that this is so close to reality makes my blood boil.
It'd be funny if the reality wasn't that they knocked my childhood home down for this shit.
The better you make it, the more people will use it; means you are getting your money's worth out of your improvements
Excellent show...
I wish more Americans could grasp the concept of induced demand. Unfortunately I think this video would fly over most of their heads.
Bro, just one more lane. Will definitely solve traffic.
Most Americans live in places not dense enough to experience it. You can put a 20 lane highway through Kansas, nobody is coming to drive on it.
Public transport is awful. Firstly you have to share with the public. Have you ever met the public ?
You are at the mercy of timetables which can change at any time with no notice.
You have to wait IN THE RAIN for the bus to show up.
If you are catching a bus at night sometimes the driver can't actually see you in the bus stop AND KEEPS DRIVING PAST.
You are at the mercy of unions, vandals, planned maintenance and unexpected breakdowns.
It is no cheaper to pay the fare than to drive a car.
A car can get you somewhere in 5 minutes but public transport will take you 30 minutes.
Bottom line - Keep building roads or I will vote for the other mob.
@@captainpoppleton Not sure if satire but lol
car expensive. you have to first own one. then maintain it. and buy insurance. and fuel it with big oil. then your suburb taxes don't even cover the sewage pipes running under the roads they're attached to in addition to power lines and asphault cracks. then ya gotta walk through a dangerous parking lot at whatever mall you're going to. then your car breaks down and now you can't go to work and now you don't have money to fix your car.
@@captainpoppleton Sounds like you live in a place with terrible public transport. I’m pretty sure you don’t live in the Netherlands.
WestConnex took nearly 5 months to become red on the gardners rd exit.
This is HILARIOUS!
Does it work better in countries where there are referendums on new infrastructure?
Rhonda I love you!!!
You are so REAL
Its a supercomputer that can predict outcomes with 99% accuracy.
God:"Damn that's impressive."
Not another super computer. 😭
The directors of this episode should be ashamed of themselves. The guy who wanted to data, actually wanted to use his pipes!
Having said that, I still want more from this show. Get every disappointed participant to get some vengeance.
Show them Mercy.
Lights. Action. Showtime. Give that guy another go.
Lay off the crack pipe mate.
I always want to give Rhonda a slap, and I'm not even a violent person.
Kitty Flanagan does a great job of playing her
Then slap yourself honey, because all you see is something within yourself.
What is scarely is there are Rhondas out there!😀
This is fantastic. I'm off to Netflix!
LOL!! The most hilarious part of this show, is that most of it is all too true!!
Brilliant
"enoughl talk, let the algorithm speak"
Ronda is brilliant.
Data driven working, and I am a data scientist
Steven Miles currently suggesting a road tunnel from Carseldine to Kedron to "solve" congestion.
The good think: At some point, it's stop getting worse. You only need to wait until it's faster to walk (assuming cycling an public transit would need to use the same congested roads).
gold
1:48 😂 I'm hoping they're a death metal band
Math-core, as it turned out.
After yet again being delayed by qld rail the algorithm has once again nailed my views
Build more roads, you get more traffic. Need to put caps on who can be on the road at peak times…..gov: no, we prefer everyone to fight with each other for road space….it’s a dog eat dog world, and a free market economy means we can’t make rules to stop it. By having more cars on the road than it can support, we make sure people use more petrol, which means more trips to the petrol station, which means more excise tax collected plus GST added on. So therefore we can’t afford to not have traffic.
Just no.
Naw it's just that they're short sighted and putting in PT scares them. The solutions are easy from a design and budget perspective: Light and heavy rail, bike paths, sending cars around the long way, more walkability. Done. The ideal models for this are all well understood, if done right they cost WAY less in the long run, and they're only hard to implement because people are scared of change and politicians are spineless.
Yeah, but most caps, come in the form of congestion charges and so discriminate based on income.
❤❤❤
Talk about "Jevons Paradox" and watch as peoples eyes slowly glaze over...
So the logic is that there is no point building stuff because the stupid public will just use it ?
@@darrenrobinson9041 Nah, that's not the point.
Car transit is inefficient transit so when you add car infrastructure (like lanes), you just get more inefficient transit.
If you want to impove transit, you need to go from cars to something more efficient: walking, biking, bus, trains, etc.
So if you have inefficient car traffic, you add an efficient train line, and that improves overall transit for a long while.
It's why Tokyo has the population of Canada yet has good mobility: insanely efficient urbanism.
When the legislature is in session, nobody is safe.
Who the heck are you and why are you making such top notch content
Mobility consultants and made this edit from an Australian satirical show, Utopia.It's now on Netflix, www.netflix.com/au/title/80063251?s=i&trkid=258593161&vlang=en&clip=81440235
The Working Dog team are veteran Aussie Comedy creators.
They've done sketch comedy - the D-Generation and The Late Show; media satire - Frontline;
Films including The Castle and The Dish;
And government comedies like Hollowmen and this one - Utopia.
Seriously, they've been at it for 40 years now!
@@jamesperkins191 "The Hollowmen"
@@mrookeward Damn autocorrect, thanks!
This is Rozelle, right?
What is a mobility planner in transit and what do they do
Does anyone else see the resemblance of Celia Pacquola and Kelly Macdonald? I love them both!
What about just making express lanes thag travel through the city, bypassing local traffic for those just passing through?
Was this filmed at Sheffield City Clowncil?
Brilliant...
Just like our HS2 railway here in the UK.
☮️💚🍻
Same at every public administration
What is the name of this show and what streaming service carries it in the USA?
Utopia. Can't find it here either (Europe). Since Australia was initially made up of thieves.. I'm not saying you should, I'm just informing you on the origins.
Here in the USA this is an unfortunate reality as well. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people clamor for the widening of a congested road or building a new one altogether. And then every. Single. Time. It gets worse. A 4-lane road that sucks becomes a 6-lane road that sucks. And the "bypass" doesn't bypass jack shit, because it inevitably gets just as bad as what it was supposed to bypass.
The idea of enabling alternate modes of transportation is the only thing that comes close to a long-term solution for congestion, but it is such a hateful idea to most Americans. After enough pressure cities will sometimes throw some token money at a crappy little bus system or something that inevitably fails so the carbrains can say "sEe iT dOeSn'T woRk!!1!!" We are stuck in a cycle of car dependency that won't stop until our cities are bankrupt and blighted off the map. Even then they'll be clamoring for just 1 more lane and opposing bike lanes and buses.
Yes you need mass transit, but the same paradox applies. The reality is that whatever transportation system you use will inevitably become congested as long as the city continues to grow, which is a good thing. So the choice is to grow or not.
“Back to normal levels” in this case being more commuters arriving at roughly the same speed as before.
Unfortunately this doesn’t appeal to existing city dwellers, because Growth is always bad for them. Increasing their rent/hassle/competition. So selling existing tax payers on growth is always full of some deceit.
Growth will always pose challenges. Better to have more public transport, shared transport and active transport options than more cars which are mostly single occupancy/driver only.
Kind of. Really it becomes an equilibrium where people will get to their destination at the same time regardless of transit method.
Rozelle Interchange
You know you are dealing with a complete Wayne Kerr when they call something a "game changer".
“I knew AI would turn out to be a bunch of greenies.” 😂
We call them “granolas” in the US
Hell yeah Brisbane being kept alive by the construction industry!!!
Coomera Connector is what they’re talking about.
If you're going to spend a lot of money to try and improve transit times and reduce road traffic then for the love of god JUST BUILT PUBLIC TRANSPORT NETWORKS! Buses might move slowly but they're 1 vehicle and can carry thousands of passengers per day, many of which would previously have been using individual cars. Do the same with trains for longer distances and before you know it you've reduced car usage immensely.
How can you watch this show in the US?
Try this link iview.abc.net.au/show/utopia. You may need a VPN. Good luck! The show is incredibly painfully, funny!
planning is like predicting a sif will keep water ... in time
This is like Apollo 13!
Utopia actually hurts to watch
Isnt it 0 sum, because other roads will see less traffic?
nice to see Andy Mathews and Naomi Higgins in their engineering element
Can they give drivers money out of 300 B to travel through others roads
Some guy called Jevon's 😂😂😂
its still doesnt make much sense like if it will be stuck after 5 years does that means there is more vehicles? and if yes wouldnt that make old model worse.
I honestly can't watch this, it hurt's to much.
productive output? of no mention in that room haha
1000 terabytes man, EACH!!!
This is all fine and very clever, but just remember not to pretend that induced demand doesn't exist in other areas as well - if you aren't careful going down this road can lead to a defeatist "build nothing" attitude that will inevitably lead to national stagnation, higher prices and poverty. House prices would be a good example - "if you build it they will come", and you'll need to build yet more houses - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't build at all, as the alternative is often going to be homelessness in any sort of growing population.
Even the "lefty greeny" option of more public transport is very susceptible to induced demand as well. Here in London the new Elizabeth Line is packed full already most mornings, and new housing developments are going up along its route to take advantage of its quicker links all the time. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, its growth! It just needs to be factored in when building new infrastructure.
Of course population of a city (and demand) won't necessarily go up forever, but it's pretty fair to say that in a great majority it will tend to increase as much as local infrastructure allows.. and then quite a bit more!
A train line can carry easily carry 60,000 passengers an hour though - while a freeway lane can do max 2,400 - and that's in perfect conditions. You build a 4 lane freeway and you'll get congestion at around 9,600 passengers an hour. A train line already has a smaller foot print and is casually running at 1/6th it's max passengers at that usage. Chuck in an advanced automated Metro on that same train line and you can get up to 90,000 passenger an hour. Train lines are just so much better for scale.
@@shraka Yeah I don't disagree, I live near the Victoria line for instance, which I'm reliably informed is one of the most efficient metro lines in the world! I'm just saying to be careful when making the argument that people using infrastructure means it has failed, because I see it a lot already with the newly opened Elizabeth line, and also with opposition to other train lines like HS2.. it's quite amazing really, people oppose infrastructure both because they have decided it's not needed, but also it's somehow going to be completely full.
@@JT29501 I see. I think of it in terms of what the alternative is. Adding a lane to a freeway that results in more traffic jams within a year or two is a terrible use of resources because spending that same money on improving rail would have been much more effective use of money. A fully utilised train line also has way better long term ROI, so yeah a fully utilised train is a good thing.
2:38 😂😂
#Rozelleinterchange
"where did the green go ' ? 😂😂😂
"So there is a margin for error..."
"How do we launch this?" - the guy knows the issue is impossible to solve ahead of time, he only cares about the optics and how it is sold to the public.
I’m not a right winger, but induced demand was a flimsy study. Alternative hypothesis: Since they only studied large cities, those improvements were so overdue that the new capacity was inadequate.
"Mass Transit" in other words transport for the plebs.
Have not seen the show but I work at a major city. Im guessing that the suits in the beginning are politicians? Conservative id guess. This is how they reason. And the woman in white reason as 99% of all civil servants in my country. You would have to look for a long time to find any civil servants that would suggest building more roads because, WE KNOW THAT WON'T SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS. Trains, trams, buses, bikes and WALKING. Give me a green city!
One word: T R A I N S
in London, every route is crap. Once google map finds out that one route is NOT 100% fucked, it sends the entire traffic through that way so it will be the most fucked up route. There is no way out. It was horrible before GPS, its horrible with GPS. And then the people who try to outsmart googlemap, realize that a route is not better only from the GPS not sending them that way. Sometimes it does happen though, that you keep ignoring googlemap and suddenly, for a very brief time, you find yourself on no mans land, no cars, no traffic and you can glide like a buttered dildo. than the AI is cathching up and its all fucked again.
And then they all realised using a bike was faster.
This is all purple. Bro, I feel your printer problems.
Utopia is the best ABC series that has been pretty much ignored by the US, and that is a shame considering the drivel it has managed to pick up on, like the execrable US Office.
At least the US IT Crowd pilot thankfully died quietly.
But, never waste your time UNDERestimating the intelligence of the US ..., just ask Duh-Nald.
Lolz I got stuck in traffic
Brisbane 👍🏽
This city is a psychologically dysfunctional Band-aid fix of a "city".
Nothing will ever come good of it.
Hey let's spend 2billion on upgrading a stadium with 6000 seats 😅
Hey let's build a tunnel for trains, and got 4x over the budget
Hey let's build a spider web of overpasses near the hospital which are ugly and useless in 4 major directions...
You cannot get from -
1) Bowen Hills mayne Rd to Gympie rd north (must take tunnel)
2) Gympie rd northbound to Abbotsford Rd Bowen Hills northbound. Must go long way
3) south bound Gympie rd to Abbotsford Rd again...
- it's a giant concrete spiderweb of shite with a boral plant that only directs in a few ways... 😅
Dysfunctional and stoopid
😅
Made a lot of money off the government already retaired at 59
AAAAAAAA!!!! AAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! D:
Government/Corporate at the helm , means A I is involved . Arrogance & Ignorance . Yeah
Karens fix everything