@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Heh, I think I've pretty much commented on every video... "You put in far more effort critiquing and fixing the TV show than they put in creating and producing it.." I'm pretty sure everyone watching understands that and appreciates your viewpoint. Lord knows your reviews are far more entertaining than the show...
@saviourself687 Thank you 😊 And thanks for all the comments. I hope I replied to some of them. I used to be able to reply to all, but the comments are outrunning me, lately.
Rand doesn't fall for Selene in the books. He doesn't realise she's evil, but every single time she pushes him to claim power for himself, he rejects it.
@@andreahultman8272 how can you pick??? This thing has been the ultimate Weird Al treatment of source material, with so many changes that the source material is irrelevant to the show
The carneira (the Malkieri concept of a sex tutor) is actually Jordan's creation, from the prequel novel "New Spring" which basically shows us a bunch of things Moiraine refers to in "The Great Hunt" from her backstory, such as the Foretelling she witnessed of Rand's rebirth and her meeting Lan. What the show is missing is the implicit criticism of the custom of a carneira, by showing how the relationship was exploitative and the woman in question seduced a barely pubescent Lan in order to gain a degree of influence over him, as the rightful king of Malkier and thus, the natural leader of its considerable refugee expatriate community. The point is that the young man in question owes his first lady a certain debt of gratitude and deference as a result, and Lan as an adult, can't really push back too hard against her, because the Malkieri expats really hold their customs dear and he would be letting them all down. In that story, he entertained the idea that certain efforts to kill him might have been engendered by her, so enable her to speak for Lan as the closest thing he has to family, without Lan inconveniencing her plans with his free will (it was actually Darkfriends who misunderstood the signs and thought Lan might be the Dragon Reborn). The story is used by Jordan to deconstruct the myth of the attractive older woman who guides a young man through his sexual awakening, to show the reader how customs like this (often invented by fantasy authors for purely titillating reasons) can be exploited, as she takes advantage of his youth and inexperience to groom him as a vehicle for her own advancement. Naturally, the show kept that bit of backstory for strictly lascivious reasons. For the record, Lan is not the type of man to bring up his sex life under any sort of questioning, not even his friends'. In the book, when an old buddy makes just an allusion to his carneira, Lan is ready to draw down on him right then and there. He's absolutely an old fashioned sort of guy in that regard. At one point later in the books, he is telling man something that a group of the female characters are keeping a secret, because he believes that man deserves to know for certain reasons, and the other guy goes "Those bloody women" and Lan, who thinks the women in question are in the wrong, still puts his hand on his hilt and says "I hope you're not speaking about (Nynaeve)" to which the guy hastily backpedals and assures Lan he means all the other women. This man is a general, who has some impressive accomplishments under his belt and is a badass in his own right, but he does not to get to even IMPLY he is talking shit about the woman Lan likes. This whole conversation with the Browns, just like the funeral and the scenes at Verin's house, and really, well, anything in which Lan plays a central role in this series, is absolutely out of character for him.
Thus is all so interesting and makes perfect sense. Do you think tge showrunner is making fun of WoT? How could some of these themes go over their heads?
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS from what i have understood of things hes said(and done), he doesnt care, and revels in ruining the characters, particularly if there are complaints about hes treatin gthem
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Everyone in this fandom has their favorite stuff. When the series was ongoing, there were fan websites with message boards, where people would write essays and debate certain characters, or discuss the politics or military aspects, or try to puzzle out all the rules and limitations of the One Power. And for some people, it was all about their favorite characters or factions (I would defend the Children of the Light just to be a troll), and they would do fan fiction rewrites where their favorite character was the real hero and they would also push really hard for certain sexual pairings or trios (I recently had to unfollow a fan who is getting into the show and rereading, because they are obsessed with their own, completely out of the blue, uncanonical "polycule" of Rand, Mat, Elayne and the Aiel chick from later in this season, and can't write about ANYthing else, and I was getting sick of notifications of another essay about why this relationship, rather than the canonical ones those characters have, should be in the story, or pervy stories about their sex life). Basically, an Egwene & Moiraine fan, whose favorite stuff is the Aes Sedai dynamics, was given the rights and a deal with Amazon to put his fan fiction on the screen. Lots of the changes reek of things people complained about over time, or fan theories, such as making Egwene ta'veren, because they think it merely means "important character" or making the characters "more adult" (which apparently means less mature, more petty, less sophisticated, less intelligent, more impulsive, with less agency, but they have sex). It reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes strip, where they see a movie has "adult situations" and they wonder what that means, innocently thinking "things like going to work, paying bills and taxes, taking responsibilities" is what is meant by "for mature audiences." They think they are fixing Perrin by having him appreciate Egwene channeling to light a campfire in season 1, instead of arguing about it, because all they see is a man telling a woman "no" and never mind that the conflict is organic to the two characters and grows out of Perrin's philosophy of being careful and avoiding causing harm and not taking risks with dangerous activities, versus Egwene's ambition and drive to empower herself and advance her abilities. Egwene is awesome and their favorite, so their capture by the Whitecloaks is all about her ordeal, not Perrin's and isn't it sooo much cooler that she escapes on her own, without help? They think they are making Rand be a good ally by saying "Nah, that's not Egwene, she would never settle for being a housewife" and completely miss that they are making an actual woman, Madeline Madden, stand in a pose with a vapid smile frozen on her face while two men talk about her. Fans love to rag on the number of times female characters get naked (e.g. Accepted tests, baths, saunas etc) but there are no sexualized descriptions of their nudity, nor illustrations. But the show keeps making Rosamund Pike take off her clothes and shoots her with lighting and camera angles emphasizing her bare skin. I don't think they are mocking the series, so much as occasionally making in-joke references or mocking certain aspects (Uno being infamous foul-mouthed but using WoT profanity, is something the fans love to laugh about, so they made him a butt of jokes on the show), so much as being idiots trying to take out the parts they like to play with or put them in places they think would be cooler, and don't care much about the character arcs, just the plot. They think character development is learning skills in the Power or weapons or revealing backstory elements, they don't understand what it means for Rand's character to be treated like a lord or why it's important that HE is the one to witness Ingtar saying the funeral prayer over the Darkfriends. As far as they are concerned if the season ends with a confrontation with the same villain at the Eye of the World or at Falme, with similar results, they have done right by the book, because they reached the goal of the book. As long as Rand fights Ishamael at the end, it doesn't really matter if they rejigger the whole story around to have a fun scene they thought up while brainstorming or daydreaming, or by buffing a character they like better than the ones around whom the first two books revolve, so they give her some of the actual heroes' accomplishments.
@@Gunleaver It's mildly disturbing to realize that self-proclaimed hardcore fans apparently aren't realizing what the books is about and that they like them for some... strange reasons.
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS It's said to not ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence yet in Rafe's case I'm not sure. He was vocal about hating Mat and "didn't understand Nynaeve" which is telling, not only about his media literacy but the fact that he didn't read the series
'I don't know how you could get away with learning sword forms in an insane asylum, or how you could learn anything this way' "Write what you know." I'm pretty sure it's a metaphor for how the showrunners learned cinematic language, and/or, how their writers passed the one creative writing class that they'd bothered taking. In all-seriousness, if I'd turned in the scripts/storyline for this show in my public Highschool creative writing class, I'd have been forcibly removed by the on campus officer if I refused to immediately leave the room. This happened more than once, despite the teacher being known for passing people if they could prove that they had tried... That is to say, literal children in public school are held to higher standards than these people - zero hyperbole. There were certain things you could do, which would get your entire semester failed automatically. One of them was changing the gender/race/religion/etc of any existing character in a franchise, and the rest basically boiled down to wasting everyone's time in a hapless/selfish bid for attention (retconning your own work in a story smaller than 25 pages, for example). The reasoning was: To be a good writer, you need to be able to create engaging characters in a believable world. To create engaging characters, you need to comprehend empathy and respect. With no empathy, the characters motivations don't make sense. Without respect, the rules of their society will not make sense - and everything about the character's lives will be a blatant/boring contrivance. To create a believable world, you need to comprehend the importance of rules, and when to break them. These rules inform the reader as to who is where, why - and what the stakes are... Example: If a person, historically competent or not, were to see a Robin Hood story starring mostly black people - the chance that they'll be appropriately offended, and/or misunderstand your hopeless (if well-intentioned) allegory, are absurdly high. Also, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to respect the authors who created the work that you're adding to, meaning that you must also respect their fans. To say nothing of the gender/race/religion/etc that you've arbitrarily thrown away >.> You need to have enough empathy to comprehend what it would be like, to have somebody so self-righteous as to not care about why/who your characters were... while, somehow, deeming it worthy as a vehicle for their own works. Guy behind Robyn Hood: "Let's be real, none of you care about Robin Hood anyway" Then why in the actual Batman would you tell that story, if nobody cares about it??? The author chose the attribute, and ignoring that effort in order to justify swapping the drapes to a more fashionable color - with zero respect for why that character was who they were - is pathetic. A character's gender and race generally inform who/what they are, what they've experienced, how they behave, where they literally are or, at least, where they've come from. And when they go against that, the reason(s) for them being different are usually worth a few chapters of compelling reading all by itself... People disagreeing with this are either: -saying that a person's etc attributes are irrelevant to who they are, and therefor, there's no reason for anyone to need any unique representation in the first place. (self-defeating hypocrisy) or -saying that the original attributes somehow detract from who that character is supposed to be. (literal discrimination) TLDR; The kids that spent their days under trees reading and becoming fans of things like Wheel of Time, usually did so because they were being bullied/ostracized. Now those same people, as adults, are being bullied/ostracized/slandered for having been fans of those works in the first place, putting them into a position to critique what has become of the thing that brought them through one of the worst times in their life. History repeats...
I saw a snippet of an interview with Sanaa Hamri who is one of the executive producers of the show. She also directed episodes 3,4,7, and 8. The interviewer brought up one of the themes in the books which is the balance of power between men and women, and asked Hamri how important it was to bring that idea to the screen. Hamri's reply was very telling. She said that one of the things that drew her to the series was that the women are in charge. She went on to say, "The women are the ones who wield the power. They have the political power. They have the strength. They have the magical power. And then the men are kind of the supporting cast." This shows how out of touch with the source material the people create this show really are. What Hamri describes is not a balance of power, but an imbalance of power. She misunderstands one of the primary themes of the novels. Robert Jordan presented a world where men AND women BOTH have power. The themes of gender equality and the interdependence of the sexes are woven throughout his work. How in the world did they miss something this basic?
The evidence of this and similar misunderstandings of deeper meaning are pervasive throughout the series. They don't seem to be able to see beneath the surface of events.
Well, to be fair, that balance is a goal, not a constant. At the outset of the series, things are not going well, because the world is out of balance. They need a major shakeup to break out of the status quo so the pendulum can begin to seing again. The producer is not wrong in that sense, they just don't grasp the way it is a bad thing and not a desirable state. That's the problem with their mentality. If you perceive this as a world where the women are in charge, why do you strip out any evidence of Nynaeve's power in the village? How can the Children stop and frisk a well-dressed woman on the road? How do they get away with stripping & scrubbing down Egwene? If the women have all the power, why did they also make Egwene and maybe Nynaeve ta'veren? Why float the idea that the Dragon Reborn could be female (down to changing the pronouns in the Foretelling of his birth from male to nuetral)? The whole point of the ta'veren is that they are outsiders to the existing power structure who create new ways and new connections between people on the good side. The girls are also important, but they work through the establishment and conventional power structures like the White Tower, or royal status. Balance, and complementary roles. The showrunners clearly do not understand this, or else reject it in favor of a female chauvanism.
The women don't wield the power in the books. At least not alone. Both sexes have power and what power they have depends on the group or nation. It feels so disingenuous to ignore all the places men have power.
In my notes while watching, during a scene in the next episode, set in the White Tower, I had "suddenly, Mat and Min push a stone out of the wall and crawl into Egwene's room". Anyway, the problem I had with Elayne's intro is that they had to make her awkward and stupid on a couple of issues to force the revelations and exposition. Elayne is highly trained for dealing with social situations. She is a royal princess, which means she was taught the art of condescension, not in the pejorative sense, but the specific skill of nobles to talk to their "lessers", without putting them down or engendering resentment, while still maintaining their social superiority. In any case, she was also trained in diplomacy, and Elayne herself is very good at this throughout the books. She is sheltered and ignorant of certain realities (see in tGH where she wonders how they are going to get new clothes when they don't have much money, because she has no clue how much common apparel costs or the relative value of their fancy silk garb to a farmwife's wool and linen), but she habitually avoids insulting anyone even by accident, unless they really piss her off. But because the show needs to reveal her rank and wealth they have her denigrate Egwene's room and possession without thinking, and they have her completely ignorant of the realities of novice life in the White Tower. In the books, her mother spent several years in the Tower, and she had an Aes Sedai advisor, both of whom would have made sure Elayne knew what to do going in, because they both had high expectations for her and did not want her to put a foot wrong. On the show, it's worse, because she has spent several summers in the Tower as a guest! The reason for all of these blunders is to rectify other adaptational changes they made. In order to make room for Dana the Dumpy Darkfriend and Steppin the Tragic Warder and have a role for Rafe Judkin's boyfriend (Taylor Napier, who plays Alanna's white warder - he & Judkins celebrated their 10th anniversary while shooting season 2), they cut out Caemlyn and the introduction of Elayne from Season 1. Because who wants to see a show where the hero encounters a beautiful princess? Best to save off-putting fare like that until we have earned the viewers' trust. Anyway, in the books, Rand made a big impression on the royal family, so when Elayne meets another person from Emond's Field in the Tower, she naturally asks about Rand, and because meeting a royal family is not something you just forget to mention, Egwene realizes who this must be from Rand's account. This neatly circumvents the quite sensible mandate that Elayne keep silent about her royal status, which both serves to keep her from being a distraction to the other students, while also reinforcing the authority of her teachers, by making a point that her royal birth means nothing in the White Tower. This is also a useful attitude to impart in the future queen of a country allied to the White Tower, to ensure the Tower has an advantage in the relationship, from having indoctrinated her as a young woman. Instead, because they could not follow the structure of a story that was good enough to hook millions of people on a 14-book-long series, but thought they could better it, the Tower's indoctrination and discipline are made into a joke, all for the purpose of revealing to Egwene that her new BFF is a princess. Hell, why did we even need to know that? Why not just have Egwene befriend the new novice who is sometimes but she explains it away as having a sheltered upbringing, and then, someday, when they are in a social situation, or are passing through Caemlyn, they can have the big reveal of Elayne's secret, that she is the heir to a throne!
I'm still sure that they intended Elayne to be unlikable. Thus her awkward introduction as sheltered and pampered princess among our heroic underdogs E and N. And thus her blundres are portrayed as mistakes, and not achievements. Somehow they didn't realized that it would make her likable... Anyway, she is white and privileged. It is major offense.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS The combination of wry humour and exasperation is still very entertaining. And if you hadn't said anything about less clips, I don't think I would have noticed, there were still plenty (no idea how you find all of them).
The fade nailed to the wall was heavily implied to be Padan Fain's handy work in the books. In the books, Fain was tainted by his time in Shadar Logoth after merging with Mordeth and holding the dagger. This allowed him to fight the programming done to him by the DO and he was starting to get his own agency. This new will clashed with what the Fades and Trollocks wanted to do/go, which is why they kept zig-zagging around all the time. Eventually, Fain got enough control and used the dagger to kill the Fade in charge and nailed it up on the door to assert his dominance over the rest of the group, thus letting him lead them to the Seanchan instead of taking the horn to the DO. In the show, Fain never went to Shadar Logoth and is still a loyal subject of Ishy and the DO. In the show, Ishy's plan is to give the horn to the Seanchan (for some reason...) instead of the DO, so this entire scene makes absolutely no sense in the show. Fain isn't going through any struggles and has no reason to kill the Fade, but the show wants us to "know" it was him by having Perrin question it for some reason.
Better yet: As far as I am aware there is no reason whatsoever for Fain to be anybody special in the books. The Dark One's Hound? Perhaps, but not anyone with either the power or a reason to nail a fade to the wall. As the Dark One's Hound, he was being pushed around by the fades, not the other way around. I haven't watched (and refuse to watch) season 2 though, so maybe they show us one reason for him to be powerful. In Season 1 however, there was literally zero reason for two fades to appear as his henchmen.@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
From what I gathered, the hunting party had observed the aftermath of a battle, found the body of a Shienaran darkfriend, and intuited that various factions that serve the Dark One were squabbling and fighting each other over the Horn. This fits the scene at the start of Ep. 1 where Ishamael gathers all his minions into a meeting; we don't get to hear the purpose of the meeting, since it's from the PoV of the little girl, but we do see that Padan Fain and a Shienaran soldier are both present. Moiraine mentions in the last episode that the Forsaken spent more time fighting each other as they did fighting the Light, so it does make some sense that Padan Fain keeps getting accosted on his way to deliver the Horn to Ishamael by other darkfriends who are eager to claim it for themselves - and each of them has their own shadow-spawn servants whom they pit against each other. Padan Fain does have the dagger at this point in the show, but it could be simpler than that - "What could do this to a fade?" Another fade.
I could have sworn there was a Fain POV in deep into the Great Hunt where he reminiscies about how he is ebbing and flowing in strength as he's changing from the Dark One's hound to something new and he staked the Myrdraal when he finally was in complete control. But it's definilty a mystery for the first half of the book and I remember being creeped out. Fades were so deadly in book 1 and 2, adn the idea that anyone could do that was frightening.
I reread the book recently and there is such a Fain POV. He really relishes in how people don't realize how dangerous he is. When he gets to Falme, there are also two lines about the assistant of Turok, one where Fain "decides how he would die" and one, months later, when we hear Turok note that his assistant just disappeared at some point. These establish for the reader that Fain is quite capable of getting what he wants, though we are not told of the how.@@Seomus
These edits have me rolling. You have great humor. At this point what can we even say. Selene is Lanfear and they cut a big chunk of really good stuff that would explain quite a few things lol
there was never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever an insane asylum in WoT! The Aes Sedai were keeping Logain in the tower for study.
At least in the books (I think they have this conversation in book 2, so not spoiling) Moiraine does it out of love for Lan. She fears she will die and wants to ensure that he doesn't follow her and you can guess who she intends the bond to go to showing Moiraine would rather allow Lan to have happiness than to keep him as her companion. Still, it's horribly against tradition but at least her motivations weren't whatever show Moiraine's are. i'm not sure I undrstnad what show Moiraine thinks.
The reveal of Liandrin's son had me burst out laughing because that's when it hit me that Moiraine threatened to send the Red Ajah after Liandrin's sickly son if she didn't keep her mouth shut. Our hero, everyone!
I bet the writers hadn't even decided who liandrin's man was going to be when they wrote that line for Moiraine in S1. They probably decided much later that it would be her son, so it makes Moiraine's line even more weird.
Yup. I assumed it would be a dark friend accomplice. And that Liandrin would be ALMOST as worried about her Ajah finding out she has a male contact than the Tower finding out he was a darkfriend. I would have found that interesting, to demonstrate the biases of the factions in the tower. I don't HATE them trying to humanise Liandrin. I think the actress has earned the extra material. But I would sort of prefer her to be a more unrepentant villain. @@Darm0k
@@DmGray In some other story character like show!liandrin would serve the purpose of demonstrating that villain with sob story is still a villain. Here I'm not sure. As usual.
@@DmGray - And herein lies the crux of the show. They are catering to the actors, not the story. They are warping the story around their big/bigger name actors, Rosamund Pike, Daniel Henney and Kate Fleetwood, (also Priyanka Bose). All of their storylines in the show are complete contrivances, and mostly for nothing by the end of the season. - The entire Moiraine/Lan thing does nothing for 7 episodes in what could've been done in two. - We humanize Liandrin and have her gain Nynaeve's empathy and trust. By episode 7 I'm sure Nynaeve would've happily followed Liandrin to Falme believing her intention was to help Nynaeve help Perrin, but instead all of that payoff is squandered just to have her knock out the girls for no good reason. - Alanna and her Warders are made up to have some kind of intrigue with Lan, (is he going to kill himself? Is he in league with Lanfear?), and later Verin, (Don't trust her, with no reason not to trust her. What's she up to, one of her Warders follow Tomas for no good reason), only to go nowhere and they completely disappear from the show for the end. - All of Moiraine's supposedly maneuvering Rand and Logain into the same asylum amounts to nothing when Logain admits he can do nothing for Rand. These are all contrived stories that aren't in the books just to give these actors more screen time, instead of spending time on moving the actual main characters/story forward, and they ALL amount to dead-ends or nothing by the end of the season.
Yup. But I DO have sympathy for the need to USE your actors that are "working" in the show. I agree with giving Liandrin more to do (especially when combining several Black sisters roles. I'd have honestly given her Elaidas role too, even unplanned, on the strength of her S1 performance. S1 Liandrin was a villain you love to hate) I also think setting up Alanna makes sense, long term. The problem is that they don't commit. They go half measures and it makes a confusing mess. If they don't want to kill Moiraine off... give her Cadsuane's role. Sure, it sucks. But adaptations need to make sacrifices. *I* wouldn't make that sacrifice, but it WOULD make sense. It just seems that they don't ACTUALLY have a plan. They have a vague direction (which is ridiculous, considering they have complete source material and a rabid fanbase of experts) and ZERO ability to use the resources they have to tell the story that RJ wrote or even the one they seem to want to tell. They KEEP needing characters to do things ENTIRELY out of character, or without apparent motivation, JUST to advance the story. @@Perry_Wolf
@@LAF.2 I don't watch it immediately. I watch the reviews because they're funny and let me know if the show is worth watching. I've read the first 8 or so books so this particular reviewer speaks from a similar level of knowledge about the WoT universe as I have. As to understanding scripts, the shows scripts are contradictory and nonsensical, (haven't you been watching the reviews ?), so they are by definition impossible to understand by a rational mind. And, no, I haven't been really young for some time.
@@sundogfarseer6070 I've read all the books multiple times, I have a background in theater, and seen lots of positive reviews. I don't agree they are contradictory. I DO think there are some problems but 90% of the show is great. I think people have completely unrealistic ideas about what an adaptation like this would have to look like. Could it have been done differently? Sure. It's always easy to look at something that already exists and critique it than it is to create it first. The last episodes of season 1 were heavily rewritten due to Covid and no Mat. I think that meant there were some awkward choices but I think they have recovered nicely.
I've been looking forward to this video, thank you! Random comments from a big book fan: - In case you forgot what Amy told you about the Glossaries, there are a bunch of pronunications in there. Like, Seanchan is said 'SHAWN-chan' - Not all female channellers are Aes Sedai, just the ones trained in the Tower who passed the tests. - Buffy, Derry Girls AND The Vicar of Dibley? Madam, you spoil us. - They said it takes eight sisters to gentle a man? How bizarre. Thirteen are used but only by Tower tradition. Thirteen being an important number in the books. - Why do I feel like the majority of the showrunners sentences began with "let's just do this..." - Why do they love mystery so much, it's really awkward - The Seanchan in the books are supposed to look intimidating and 'other' for actual reasons. Here they've gone with scary, so I guess all Seanchan are evil in the show? - Oh man, I kept looking out for hero-Shienaran-guy the whole season :D - I don't like the costuming because why spend time on changing it from the books! Making work for yourselves and showing you don't understand the importance of clothing for a culture - I understand what they're trying to do with the Forsaken's clothes but it makes them look like middle management - Haha, you're right, they just give up digging through the walls! - So glad Elayne has been done well. She's one of my favourite characters (up to about book nine) - They can't resist making people's backstories more gloomy. The idea that the Daughter-Heir had nothing to do and was all lonely... So she wasn't learning how to rule? Have they cut her brother? - Hello, contrived drama! Making Eg crap at Aes Sedai school cause #relatable - So they changed the Grey Ajah to be politicians instead of negotiators and mediators? Kinda messes with the idea of Aes Sedai not (openly) taking power for themselves - Cynicism time: Alanna has to be in every episode because Rafe's partner has to be in every episode - Continuously making the Shadow-sided characters 'nuanced' and 'humanized' removes the impact of a friend revealing their true nature (avoiding book spoilers). There are no baddies in the show who are just evil. - Book correction: a woman usually goes through the Arches when she's completed novice training and the Mistress of Novices judges her able to handle it. Edited for grammar.
Bahaha Rafe made a character that didn't even have lines in the book iirc into an important side character just so he could cuck himself and film it 😂😂😂
@@blamberton7893 Even changed the guy's name, supposedly so as not to confuse us dimwitted viewers due to Thom's nephew, Owyn (like who remembers that poor guy), but more likely to avoid Owein's fate so he can be in every season.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Oof, no, that outfit seemed like a definite case of catering to the modern viewer's idea of 'sexy evil'. The woman doesn't need such clichéd pandering; she's compelling in her own right.
I didn't notice that they changed the number of women needed to gentle a man. They also changed the number of Forsaken to 8. Perhaps they can't count higher than ten? Or eight is an evil number for some reason?
42:15 Sorshen (spelling?) sounds like he can 100% see the past and and is trying to figure out 1) how you found out, and 2), a good enough lie on the spot to convince you otherwise
Funny to realize, that when Rand meets Selene in the book, he definitely feels that something is off about her and is clearly able to resist her charms. But then again, real Rand at this point is doing his best to behave himself as "officer and gentleman".
In the books, even without the sexual connotations invented for the warder bond by the show, forcibly bonding a warder is explicitly and directly compared to sexual assault by the characters. It was done in the past, but is very strongly disapproved of in the current era (kind of like forcible marriage). In the books, the Aes Sedai Warder relationship is stated to be mostly chaste. A warder bond has no effect on the sexual orientation of the warder, and they don't SHARE any emotions or physical feelings, just knowledge of the other's feelings. At one point, a male-attracted Warder is feeling the Aes Sedai have sex, because she forgot to mask the bond as Moiriane did before her tryst with Siuan, and despite experiencing the Aes Sedai's sexual encounter (this bond has a unique property that causes this pair, and only this pair to share physical sensations and emotions), the warder is STILL not attracted to the Aes Sedai's lover, disparaging his looks and suitability. The show changed all that, so Steppin the Tragic Warder is assuming that he will share Alanna's sexual interests once he is bonded to her, and be as attracted to her warders as she is. THIS MAKES IT *MORE* RAPEY! (in the case of Steppin, it also muddies the waters by leaving it unclear whether he killed himself because he could not go on without Kerene, or to avoid being inducted against his wishes into a sexual relationship with two men) There is a part in the books where a group of Aes Sedai whose view of doing whatever is necessary does not necessarily exclude murder or torture or throwing a country into civil war to achieve a sufficiently important goal, react with horror to a sister bonding a man against his will for the purpose of protecting and keeping track of him, and are disgusted with her, even though they exploit the act for their own agenda. In regard to another forced bond, they speculate that the Hall of the Tower itself will punish the women who did so.
that's not strictly true though- ther's an aes sedai (don't want Spoilers) who is often described feeling things that are actually her warders feelings. She's even acting drunk once because her warder got wasted at a bar and only realises it when said warder comes back and enters the room. So they do share feelings if they aren't careful and it seems to take some time to distinguish effectively between their own and their warders feelings and keep the "border" up.
@@norealname1965 Yes, and even that extremely close bond, which is so strong because of a factor that applies to none of the bonds on the show, even that bond does not change the sexual orientation or attractions of the Warder! Even when FEELING the Aes Sedai having sex with a man that the male-attracted Warder does not find attractive, it does NOT change the Warder's mind and the Warder is still not hot for the Aes Sedai's lover! That's my point. If the bond between B & E does not change B's sexual interest from one kind of man to another, despite sharing the orgasm the man gave E, then why would Steppin think a warder bond is going change his whole orientation?
Brandon Sanderson has come out on UA-cam talking about the show, he actually live reacted to the finale with a couple of booktubers/authors, and he was not shy about speaking his mind, it was a little bran-melting to me watching the literal author of some of the books, and someone who had creative input into the show, break down all its weakest elements and things it could, and in his opinion, should have done better both overall and in the finale itself.
Rand and Selene's entire relationship is one million percent a writer wanting to have their personal kink/fantasy seen on TV. Nothing anyone will ever say can convince me otherwise. It's not built up to, it's not supported, it does not otherwise progress the story, and it makes no sense given half the stuff that occurs during their relationship. It's not even GoT style "sexposition." It's pure fanfiction/personal gratification by whomever wrote it.
The treatment of the Fades on the show makes me think they are a weaker, more stealth-oriented form of Shadowpawn, who are scouts or something like that, who find the prey for the Trollocs. There is absolutely no way to infer that they are far more powerful and dangerous creatures who lead the Trolloc armies and even the whole cause of the Shadow until the Forsaken return ((in tGH, when Fain disappears from the Fal Dara dungeons after the Trolloc attack, the Aes Sedai are discussing it, and Siuan says something wondering why the Fades think he is important, and the clear implication is that they are the leadership who make the decisions about who and where the Shadow attacks and so forth). Remember, Thom kicks one all the way across the room in the farmhouse. Why should we be scared? We didn't see it during the attack on the village, which leads one to charitably assume the writers know what they are doing and it's weaker and less combat-oriented, so it sat out the fight. Since the attack failed, the fact that the most powerful creature from their faction did not take part makes the Shadowspawn look even less competent. As it is, you would assume Fades are cowards, since one just shrieks in the village square after everyone has gone to bed, and then never shows itself again, until there is a river between it and the heroes, and their cowardice is well-founded, because a musician goes up against one, with a knife against a sword, and we never see the Fade again.
I think what's going on here is what Orson Scott Card pointed out in How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy: amateurs (or new writers) tend to make every story an Idea Story (i.e. a mystery). They think suspense comes from withholding information from the reader.
I used to own that book, before I loaned it to a friend. You’re spot on though, that’s exactly what the show writers have done. There’s barely any creativity in doing things that way.
This is so accurate! I talked about this in mu 6hr review, but cut it and decided to save for a later episode. So spot on. Mysteries are not withheld information. It's information that is right there in front of the reader, but it's so well integrated into the scene that the observer doesn't realize it's related to the mystery.
Thanks for reviewing this. I enjoy yours the most. I have read the books since the 4th one was published. Reread the entire series prior to each release. I am so disappointed that they didn't show me the books come to life. You have made me realize why some of the things I was disappointed at disappointed me.
32:07 I’m on the fifth book rn so I can’t say for certain as I have heard this from others who have read ahead, but I’m pretty sure that severing a bond in the books pretty much gives you a unique kind of PTSD
Moiraine thought Rand would win the last battle at the Eye of the World. Instead he let out Ishamael. That seems like it would make you question that Rand even was the dragon reborn, but she doesn't. Also, she could not have known about the prophecy on Toman Head or she was dumb enough to think that the Dragon would proclaim himself AFTER he won the last battle. She spent 20 years researching the Dragon and knows basically nothing. Also, Rand didn't proclaim himself at Toman Head. Moiraine faked the prophecy on his behalf. Nobody at the tower knows Rand supposedly the dragon. Why don't they think Nynaeve could be the Dragon. None of it makes a lick of sense.
The show writers will claim to have brilliantly dodged the prophecy-related plot holes you point out with Moiriane and Suian's bedroom scene in season 1. The one where Moiraine completely dismisses the reliability of the Karaethon Cycle because "There have been so many different translations," and suggests that a random story she heard from a gleeman in a random tavern should be put on the same level as the actual Prophecies of the Dragon. Leaving aside the fact that the writers are too stupid to know that having loads and loads of translations of a document actually increases your ability to know what it actually says rather than decreasing it, they still wrote themselves into the ridiculous position of having Moiraine not believe a word of the prophecies she has dedicated her life to seeing fulfilled. Except when it's convenient for the plot, at which point she will believe precisely as much as is convenient for that one scene.
@@DankworthBalthazar yeah, if in this world they don't take prophecies seriously (despite it's a known phenomenon) why they didn't dismiss said phenomenon as nonexistent?
@@DankworthBalthazar Well said 👏 Most people don't understand that the more extant translations of ancient scripture we have, the more accurate we can make the modern translation. What you described is actually a real thing. This is how we know the reliability of the New Testament we posses today is essentially identical to the one wrote in the first century. Because thier are hundreds of copies that survived antiquity Scholars are able to compare and contrast. Any mistakes made intentionally or not throughout time can be sussed out quite easily.
@@MultipleGrievance I started writing a long explanation of that in my previous comment, but decided I had made too much of a wall of text already. Thanks for filling in some more detail.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I won't claim he was doing stuff like this on TLK, but it did give him a solid foundation to build off of. And if you enjoyed the early seasons of GoT, you should love TLK.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS The Last Kingdom has better writing, better acting, far more impressive fight scenes, doesn't skimp on extras... the only downside is that if you start watching the show you'll lose all motivation to do another review of WoT!
@step4018 Between season 1 episodes, I watched a cheesy Chinese historical soap opera to decompress (they take no brain power to absorb). The story was sappy, the music was corny, the cgi was embarassing, and the lead actrsss couldnt act at all. But even THAT was better than the WoT show.
I have listened to numerous breakdowns of season 2, being my primary reason for even watching it, and yours is my favorite so far. I will likely continue through the episodes. Definitely see the editor skills and perspective shining through in your well-reasoned 'maybe we could have...' scenarios. Speaking as a writer who has collaborated in groups and with professional and semi-professional editors. You're on point for sure, so kudos! I admit to being curious as to your take on the differences between Jordan's writing and the man that had to finish the books, Sanderson, whenever you get there.
Thanks for this. Just to assure folks, I am continuing with my reviews for Season 2, I'm just gonna be putting them out more slowly. They are a major pain in the rear to record and edit. I'm only on book 4, so far. I'll probably mention it in my videos when I get to the end of the series, but my plan was to take a break after book 4. I don't want to get burned out.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Makes sense, and I can definitely tell they have a lot of work put into them, especially all of the video cuts, sound effects, etc., for emphasis. Which was, of course, awesome. :P I could understand even waiting on the books until season 3 of the show comes out, though things are unclear to me what they'll focus on with how jumbled it is.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS With quality/accuracy? That's a given lol. I actually just watch it to hate on it. I knew what I was getting into, though season 1 was twice as bad. It's a bit like Mystery Science Theatre Hour, though admittedly with better acting and this and that I like entertainment-wise.
@@ShoMorphias I wish it was as bad as season 1 (I thought the writing from line-to-line was way worse in season 1). I could have more to laugh at if is was as bad as season 1. Now, I'm just... bored.
I couldn't bring myself to watch season 2, and this blatant character assassination of Moiraine would have broken me if I had any hopes left for the show. In the books, she and Lan were a real team, and even when they disagreed, there was never any doubt that she cared deeply for Lan, loved him, and respected him. I don't know why I am so shocked and upset at this point considering I already knew they weren't going to try telling the story from the books, but damn. Also, Perrin with a sword is just... wrong.
I'm with you. It took me 3 times to get through Season 1 (really, Perrin was married? He's supposed to be like 15), and I made it through about half of the first episode of Season 2 (let's turn Moiraine into the generic helpless female trope...who apparently is Black Ajah since she can pull a knife on someone who hints about the Dragon Reborn) before giving up. They essentially gutted the series, filled the hollow carcass with teen drama and generic sub-plots, and called it good.
The bit Moriaine referenced when she saw the Trolloc heads on spikes happened in "New Spring", but it was from Lan's PoV. He asked Moiraine why she was looking at the heads and she said the line about can't imagine the courage to face Trollocs without the One Power, which Lan reads to mean she has faced down Trollocs before. This elevates her in his eyes from "pain in the ass lady who tried to take my sword and keeps insulting me with her ignorant southland ways" to someone who has done some shit. According to Moiraine, it was the pond incident that made her choose him, which is why Adeleas says what she says about the pond and its bearing on the job of a warder. The CONCEPT is accurate, strongly implied in the books, though never articulated by any actual Aes Sedai/warder characters (it's only ever stated when the new girls find themselves in the position of getting a warder), because Aes Sedai are the top dogs and have a supreme sense of dignity and gravitas and they would be appalled at Alanna's sexual behavior wrt a novice or Adeleas' general sleazy deportment, or a lot of the bullshit antics on this show. But for their own reasons, they decided to cannibalize the line about the Trollocs as the "real" reason, because Moiraine is so awesome they don't think she needs Lan to help keep her grounded.
The conflating shielding and severing. Shielded people can always sense the Source but can't reach it, not to mention they don't suffer the crippling suicidal depression that someone severed does.... There's no mistaking those two! It's like confusing having local anesthesia numbing your arm so you can't move it, and having your arm cut off. If it's just numbed, things attached to it stay in your possession (warder bond) but if it's cut off they don't. What the #;_#(+* are the show writers thinking/doing? It always comes back to that question. If they don't like the characters, and they clearly don't want to follow the plot, and they aren't interested in the lore, _WHY ARE THEY MAKING A WHEEL OF TIME SHOW_ ?!
I think we’ve established that there are no hard rules for the magic system in the show. It’s just being used as a deus ex machina for whatever plothole they’ve dug themselves into at any particular moment. Or if they think it looks ‘cool’. Whatever.
knowing how you feel about "off page" development I've gotta say you are in for some pleasant surprises this season. No wait not pleasant, horrific. That's the word ... horrific, nightmarish surprises await you. Enjoy!
Recently found your channel and I am thoroughly enjoying your WOT S2 episodes critique. I have read the entire book series and although much is changed for the adaptation, there are many little subtle Easter eggs for the book readers. Now on to Moiraine...one should be asking "who sent the fades to kill her?" Moiraine knows who has (in ep2) but there is no indication of this in this episode. She loves Lan and she cannot bear the thought of possibly getting him killed. That is the reason behind her hurtful and disrespectful words and actions. She is trying to push him away to save him. You can read "New Spring" at any point. It will give you more context regarding Lan's and Moiraine's travels before they reach Edmond's Field.
Don't edit a 6 and a half hour video. Upload it all raw. I'll be here for it 100%. Definitely one of, if not my favourite reviews of the series, even though you're not as fire and brimstone as I would be about it.
I'm sure I could be a lot more harsh if I knew the books all the way through. I'm guessing there's a lot they are screwing up that goes over my head, as I'm only in book 3. Haha. There's far too much swearing in the long cuts.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS For me it's about why they're screwing up as much as the fact they're screwing up, given comments Rafe has made it strains credulity for me to believe it's incompetance or an accident. There's a couple of particular scenes I'm really looking forward tro seeing/hearing your opinion on (i think like eps 6 and 8 but I can't remember) as one should have been pretty meaningful based on what happens in the books and instead its just "whatever why is this relevant" because they cut the book scene and instead we had moiraines political family drama that never happens, and something that ties into that is one of the coolest scenes in book 2 that gets cut. Could always upload them as patreon/ko-fi perks?
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS It involves swords. (Got it yet? ;) ) role models (or lack thereof) (Surely now :P ) and general badassery. :P Back to watching, because I'm a man and in fact we cannot multitask, even if it's watching a video whilst not being on autopilot and typing a reply
21:15 i agree, although i think it'd be generous to also keep the option that the writers had included a meeting but that it was cut by editors/producers/directors later (since apparently a lot of stuff was cut from season 1, or so i heard). still could be improved regardless, but yeah.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS yeah, even if the pre-cut version made sense (which who even knows, although i like to err on the side of ppl doing their job the best they can), the fact that no one went over the post-cut product and realized it didn't always make sense is a little... sad.
Love these reviews. I was in a discussion with a show apologist who was trying to suggest that all of our complaining will just keep anyone else from wanting to try to make a better show. To which I replied, "Good. I'd rather see no show than one done so poorly. Why would you support mediocrity?"
Yep, never understand settling for mediocrity, or worse, active malice towards the books. No show is indeed better than one which sets out to subvert the books, and is horribly written and produced in the process. To people who say ‘why do you care, let people enjoy the show, it doesn’t hurt the books or Jordan’s legacy,’ I disagree. The show is now the first contact point for WoT for new people, and the awfulness of the show rubs off and taints the books in the eyes of the wider community. Already show discussions, details, images, videos, and plot summaries dominate internet search results for WoT. You now have to wade through a pile of show nonsense to find pure book content online. Worth noting, to claims WoT was unadaptable, that there are no-budget amateur WoT fan films on YT that have more heart, soul, passion and talent in them than this mega-budget ‘professional’ show. It can be done, it just needs the right people steering it. So until we get a faithful WoT adaptation produced and written by talented fans who understand the story, themes and characters, I’m just fine with the books.
"Father Goose" Great old movie. Remember that Maoirane and Nienieve have conversations that gives her the idea that She could go to the tower. but it would be hard for her as She is too old to be a novice. and she has to overcome her block.
I totally lost my shizzle when Morraine broke one of the 3 oaths by using the One Power as a weapon and blowing up the Seanchan ships. I mean why not just cut the threads of spirit to stop them shielding Rand.
Solid review! I’m blown away by some of the choices. I can’t decide if it’s too many cooks in the kitchen or just lazy writing. Probably a bit of both. Regardless, I’m turning off my book brain and enjoying it. Your reviews always snap me back to reality. This show has the potential to be so much better. Fingers crossed for S3.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS You are probably right. I noticed that Rafe Jundkins is in a long term relationship with one of Alanna’s warders (Taylor Napler). It makes me wonder how much of the terrible Lan/Moraine plot line was done to pad his screen time. That type of decision making, if true, doesn’t bode well for future seasons. I know they don’t want to be GOT but I can’t stand the YA stuff. Season 2 was better but that’s not saying much.
This Loandrin is absolutely a different character than the one in the books. When we first meet Liandrin in the books: "... and fair-haired Liandrin in her red... Not only young-seeming but young and pretty, with a doll's face and a small petulant mouth." So the first thing we learn is that she's _actually_ young. No grampa-aged kids. No rules against Aes Sedai having kids (though it's mentioned that it's rare) but the red Ajah is pretty strongly misandrist as a rule, so would probably get pretty judgemental if a red Sister got pregnant.
To be fair, these sorts of differences don't bother me. I'm more concerned with her having more dialogue, screen time and back story than Mat, Perrin and Rand combined.
Love what you’re doing. I’m continuing to watch the show only to see your dissection. I read the complete series years ago, so the books are not as fresh with me as they are with you, but the incongruities seen in the show are still glaring to me. Going into the production planning for this show I am left wondering just how many seasons they planned for to tell the entire story. Anyway, big thanks for your audit. Very entertaining.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Dude, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. We can see all the effort you put in and in my opinion it pays off in the quality of your videos. For me though, the most important thing is your take, so if it was just you, standing in front of a blank background, outlining your thoughts, I would still watch it.
I love your long videos. I love your logical deduction, your love for a good story, and your willingness to point out when something doesn't make sense. I mean seriously, I'm not a writer of any stories but it really makes me wonder how the writers of the show doesn't see all these issues in continuity that has nothing to do with the books at all, within the story some of them make no sense. So thank you for pointing these things out in such an eloquent way.
22:00 Morraine is full of half-truths. It was very irritating to read but because she cannot lie it comes in handy to postpone your half on the conversation while the other reveals what they want. It would likely come as second nature very quickly.
At 30:25 re: Season 1 Sa’angreal. We have it on good authority that the episode 1 prologue was a re-shoot, meaning most of episode 1, and then 2-6 were filmed without Moiraine having this, which is why there are continuity problems such as the search by the Whitecloaks. Other continuity issues arise from this re-shot prologue too. The most obvious would be what Moiraine witnesses Liandrin doing, and then forgetting about it when they have their spat at the White Tower, and Moiraine ultimately deciding to blackmail Liandrin with her… son. Rather than the man she gentled without authority and against Tower law. 🤦♂️
Oh good catch about Liandrin. I don't have much to say about the reshoots except that they should have delayed until after the pandemic. It's Amazon. They have the funds. Better to delay and put out a great show, than to reshoot with such a bad ending. But, then again, the rest of the show wasn't good either, so they didn't have much to save. 🤷🏽♀️
I never understood why the Aes Sedai would have spent all that energy on Logain to then spend more energy sending him multiple countries away and leave him unmonitored. He was captured in Ghealdan, then they ship him all the way to Cairhien and just walk away?
I think the idea is that he is stilled permanently. In the book, he is no danger to anyone but himself, once that's been done. It's like... he's been permanently disabled. As far as the one power is concerned.
The vision that is experienced in the house, with the family being horrified at their dinner being interrupted, is eventually revealed in the books to be a side effect of Padan Fain's powers. It does not technically matter whether it was Rand or Perrin who saw it, because it does not related to the One Power or to the wolf powers. Later in the series, Rand has a similar vision of the prelude to another of Fain's murders, and it is in a place where he is cut off from the One Power. It's really just a horror element, and in the show's defense, Jordan did not make that clear for a long time either (ten years between tGH and the book where it happens again).
I always thought it was a bubble of evil, but Fain has weird powers. I think I know what you're talking about. In FM, right? The later books really blend together where as that one really stood out to me and mirrored the weirdness bubbles of evil cause.
@@Seomus Yeah, where you referred. I think the first bubble of evil was the strange wind that disrupted Rand's sword lesson early in Book 2. Moiraine describes them ramping up over time, so the rather unremarkable nature of that one, just a sudden impossibly strong wind, suggests it's not very strong, but that would also mean there would not be another one so relatively soon, just a couple of days later, back at that point when they are first starting out.
@@Gunleaver I haven't read this book since I reread the series in preparation for Memory of Light's release. I think you're right about it being a trap left by Fain for Rand. Sorry for leading you astray with bubble of evil, though they do very similar and fun things.
Hiding what's going on then revealing it isn't going to wver lead to an "oh wow" moment, it's just telling people what had been going on after confusing them. If instead they _showed_ people what was going on, then revealed the _consequences_ (obvious only in hind sight) of that, that's how you get "oh wow..." (or "oh no!") moments.
This is a spot on observation. Later in the season, I'll be talking about how the writers don't seem to understand buildup and payoff. Your note is getting right at the heart of it.
I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at 1:18:45 because your comment there shows just how far this show gets from character motivation in the books. I'll just say that there is a character where healing is a big deal and leave it at that.
Excellent point about Elayne. The only excuse I can think of for Mat choosing that wall is.... maybe Lianfrin would have been suspicious if he moved furniture in front of the outside wall. That's giving the story way more benefit of the doubt than is deserved.
I can’t imagine having to edit down a 6 hour video lol. It’s a good decision you kept it at this length. Also I can’t wait till you get to the finale. That’s gonna be a fun one to tear apart
This was edited down from a 3.5hr recording. My 6.5hr review is in the recycly bin on my computerre-record. Cutring it down for about 2 days and then decided to re-record.
I put this tv show in the same category as Paramount's Halo, Netflix' Shanarra chronicles, Amazon's Rings of Power, and Disney's Star Wars: They dont exist. I dont even think the writers bothered to look at the content before carelesly destroying something so many people loved dearly. Nor did it look like they cared about what they were writing.
1:38:35 Exactly!!! you hit it on the head, as expected, sister! 💯 Joining the accepted is about having the will to leave old ties behind and join a cause greater than oneself. It's quite similar to the catholic nuns (and probably inspired from it). And of course, It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with one's proficiency with the One Power.🎉 This is why Egwene in the next episode pisses me off so much.
Love your videos! Thank you so much for your time and effort. I look forward to every one and watch them with my friends. Regarding Elayne tinkering with things and solving problems, that's actually good set up for things to come, and much more important than showing her able to heal things, which I don't think is called back to past book 1.
They were in a no-wing scenario of their own making with the sword training because they stupidly made him fake his death in season 1 rather than just have him sequestered away in hiding with Moiraine and Lan. It would even have worked with their lost link plot for Lan, the other Aes Sedai would want to keep him busy like they kept Moiraine busy to keep his mind off killing himself. Training Rand in the sword would be the PERFECT work for him to take his mind off of things.
It’s more than incompetence, taking the significance of sword training off Rand and giving it to Nynaeve instead was intentional subversion. The writers are trying to update the story to subvert traditional gender roles and book elements they consider outdated and problematic, hence why most of the female characters are now all martial arts experts taking down Trollocs and Fades and saving themselves, whilst most of the men are incompetent, helpless, and need someone (a woman) to save them. Intentional subversion. Rafe admitted this was his goal on Twitter. He thinks this is ‘feminist,’ even though many actual feminists disagree and have pointed out that flawless Mary Sue girlbosses actually undermine female characters and make them less appealing to a general audience.
@@zionmarcelo indeed, apparently they want Nynaeve (who they managed to provide with Warder sword training this season despite ‘not enough time’ to give Rand any) to be the sword fighter of the group because… reasons.
Selene and Rand in the show - I have no problem with Rand having met an older woman and shacking up. She’s beautiful, intelligent, sexy, he’s sad and lonely, she’s likely pushing for it. I think very few men would turn this down in his situation. After a bit he starts to are for her and then starts to realize he is in danger of the same problem he had with Egwene. In time though he starts to sense what she is - a trouble of ambition who is only in love with what Rand can bring her. And all this of course parallel’s Lanfear’s relationship with Lews Therin. Selene likes to provoke Rand and so he throat grabs her. Like you said Rand in the books would never do this but I just think show Selene is constantly trying to get a rise out of him. Rand stalking the guy and losing control and it looked like killing the guy. Hard to imagine Rand doing this at this stage and frankly a really bad light to put the main hero in. Moiraine and Lan - hard to even parse how badly the show has managed this. I don’t believe it either. These characters have spent 20+ years traveling together, caring about each other, having their lives in each others hands. It gets fixed later but Moiraine would never treat Lan this way and Lan would never put up with it. This is just another way this show is making men look weak and subservient and women look like heartless manipulators. The bond - the way I see this (and RJ never gets deep into an explanation) but basically if you are gentled/severed its like losing a limb, being shielded is like the limb goes numb or be paralyzed. For purposes of the bond Lan can’t feel it. That might tamp down the way it feels to make him wonder if its gone. It might tamp down his powers too. I am not aware of bonds ever being taken or stripped in the books but Ae Sendai can pass them around whether the warder agrees or not. The power and the madness - there is no safe way to use the one power for men and not go mad. That’s just not an option. It may be that the way the madness takes hold is by connecting male channelers with other versions of themselves from other ages. That seems to be Randy’s experience. Having another version of you in your head all the time could ultimately cause madness. Rand never seems to get there and RJ never explains why or how the madness works. Rand and Logan - I liked that Rand went through these manipulations to get to Logan. It felt like the first time he stops reacting and starts acting. Hope we get a lot more of it because Rand is the MC and has too often seemed helpless and naive. The books make a great deal of his need to become hard and tough like steel at this point, almost to the degree of losing his humanity. Verin and Moiraine - I love Verin in this. She is both smarter and wiser than Moiraine. And she is supposed to be an older more powerful and more learned Aes Sendai. She is great. Horn of Valere - RJ basically doesn’t use this well and the show doesn’t improve on it. This whole book is named this and it basically never seems super prominent or critical. Trying to remember if it even did anything in the last battle? Padan Fain - The show does him totally wrong. They have hm too strong too early, almost like a Forsaken. Fain hates the Dark One, hates the Forsaken, hates everything really. When he gets to the point where he is learning to stake and control Myrdraall he’s not on anybodies side but his own (not even pretending) . When he is in the employ of the Dark one he is sniveling and weak. When he gets his power he is conniving and narcissistic. He is really a mix of Gollum and Agent Smith from Matrix. Perrin - all good. Mat & Min - didn’t love this at all, don’t think this Min is very Min. Don’t like the way they have handled her vision ability, it’s more symbolic in the books. Elayne and Egwene - agree great! Elayne is an MC btw. Egwene has no blocks. Liandrin and Nynaeve - I think giving dark friends a reason for why they are what they are is good. Lliandrin is more interesting and intelligent as a villain this way and we get to see growth in Nynaeve in the interactions. So again well done. This episodes gets Perrin, Egwene, Elayne correct and does ok with Rand, if not perfect. Moiraine/Lan it continues to mess up as well as Padan Fain. It’s not perfect but its much improved over S1.
About 92-94% of what we saw in Season 1 we never saw in the books, why would we expect Season 2 to be anything different? I really can't conceive how or why anyone who claims to be fans of the books would feel anything but disgust over what's being done to Robert Jordan's world, lore and characters.
15:31 My interpretation of the chocking scene was that they had already done this kink before and Rand knew that it would be fine, but honestly I don’t understand this show at all so who knows?
This wasn't dull at all. I can tell it is difficult for you to accept the praise. Hopefully one day you'll be able to say, "fuck it, I guess people really do like me!" lol You're editing is very well done, your references and memes are timely and relevant, your frustrations are shared by many of us long time fans, and you do a very good job at putting that into a video that is pleasant to digest. I was looking forward to this video, and the next one and so on.
So, haven't quite finished this video, but I had to mention a couple things. One: As far as I can remember, Nyneave was never a novice...She was made accepted pretty much as soon as she got there, or within the week. I don't fully understand why they felt the need to change that. Not even going to talk about the whole thing with Mat. And Second, and maybe this is just me, but a pet peeve of mine with some of these newer shows is...The wardrobe. Does the department like, not get much funding and/or time? Like, the costumes themselves aren't horrible, but they, to me, feel too...new, all the time. They don't look like they are worn. They don't feel right because of it. No wearing out around where movement is there. No dirt and/or dust/mud build up with the ones traveling (or at least not enough) and always much too clean all the time. At least, that's what it feels like to me. Anyone else get that same feeling?
I don’t know why they changed it either but I also don’t know why Nynaeve was promoted on arrival as she came in with the absolute worst attitude and Siuan was already over it before they got off the boat. I think the suggestion is it’s about power level but it’s vague and it’s also a dumb move on their part. Why reward someone who is acting like a spoilt child and expect them to stop doing that?
@@foxesofautumn Nynaeve IS extremely powerful, she had the spark and she clearly had a knack for healing. Thus she goes straight to advanced training. Plus, being an Accepted is not really better than Novice. What doesn't make sense is that show tried to promote her to full AS...
Can we talk about the ridiculousness of the hidden passage a bit more. I went back and re-watched the scene multiple times. First off, apparently the White Tower has meaningless and extremely tiny alcoves in it. Something that strikes me as odd in this design, is that the alcove is at the end of a hallway, that doesn't have any doors or additional passageways adjacent to the alcove. I could understand placing something like this at an intersection of perpendicular corridors, but simply having a hallway leading to such a tiny area, that just doesn't make sense. Next, when Nynaeve enters the alcove, she is presented with what appears to be two windows. We clearly see light streaming through them, especially since there aren't any candles or other light sources in the alcove. Additionally when Nynaeve opens the passageway, we have light spilling through the doorway, again with no other light sources but the windows, or window in this case now. And here's where it becomes impossible for that to be the case. The hidden doorway was the left window frame, yet the passageway behind it loops to the right, meaning the it crosses behind what was the right window in the alcove. So where is the light coming from? And considering how the novices are tasked with cleaning the Tower, are we to presume that no other novice has found this hidden passage? I mean all Nynaeve does is push on the window and the door opens. My first take on this was that Liandrin wanted Nynaeve to follow her, so she leaves the doorway unlocked, but based on her reaction to Nynaeve following her and events that happen in later episodes, I have since discredited that notion. But speaking of Liandrin, she is a full Aes Sedai, able to freely enter and exit the Tower as she pleases. There isn't really any reason for her to sneak out of the Tower using a secret passageway. She could have left through the main entryway, its not like any guard is going to question where she's going, then lose herself in the crowd. Which brings me back to Nynaeve. Now in the books, novices are forbidden from leaving the Tower, while Accepted can enter the city proper. When Nynaeve exits the secret passage, based on the lighting, its a bit hard to tell what time of the day it is. In one cut it looks like the sun might be close to setting, but in another I would swear it looked more like midday. Yet when she finally catches up to Liandrin, it is definitely night time. However in all that time that she was outside the Tower, at no point does she accidentally encounter a random Aes Sedai (we are in Tar Valon, home of the Aes Sedai) or a Tower guard who would have instantly recognized her as a novice by her attire. That just feels a bit like lazy writing to me.
As for ridiculousness of the hidden passage we are talking about people who doesn't understand shit in architecture and design. Remember how tiny was the great hall and how huge Tower appears from outside? They can't even draw things to scale, and you're asking them to came up with well thought out interior design.
@TheNightrider88 Not so much asking that they have an intelligent design for the Tower, more just pointing out something that stuck out to me. But what can I say, I'm an engineer. Shit like that bugs me.
YOU would have cut the scene with Alanna and her warders meeting Sheriam and deciding to go to Moiraine, because YOU have not been dating the actor who plays the warder Maksim, Taylor Napier, for ten years. But Rafe Judkins has.
And stupid people like me can't really understand why would he learn channeling at this point at all. Even if he didn't know that taint-induced madness is extremely random, most obvious course would be just never ever ever touch the Source. So I guess he decided to learn because he is... power hungry?
11:20 The reason for Rand to be learning from someone in a mental asylum, is because the writers dropped the ball in the first season and never showed Lan teaching the boys how to fight, so now they are trying to justify Rand knowing it later...I have no idea why they chose a mental asylum tho, that's just nonsense.
44:57 this really is the perfect example of why they don't deserve more episodes. They turn a single comment into the entire character arc between multiple episodes. It's like in season 1 where he kept telling Egwene it was his fault his wife died, but it was the third time he said that before he actually explained what he meant. And they were still interrupted before any character development happened. Then this season continues to have brief call back moments without any character development in relation to Laila. Or "who is the Dragon Reborn" that required not having any meaningful character development for the entire first season to have a contrived mystery they broke lore and world building consistency to have make the slightest bit of sense.
Agree with all of this. I cant wait to talk about how worthless the Laila drama was. I plan to compare Perrin and Mat to Merry and Pippin. They did very little in the first book and first film. But they GREW into great characters for whom we got to see more development. Mat and Perrin legitimately had major things to do in the first book. Not a ton... but a good amount of really interesting stuff. But the showrunners felt it wasn't enough drama. 🤪
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS yeah, for some reason they seem to think childish drama is the deepest any character can go. And they took a trope from the books (people don't always communicate great and it creates problems) and blew it up to 1000x. Now characters don't communicate at all. There's rarely a moment in season 1 where a character would actually say (or even do) what they say based on their implied motivation and characterization. When they do it works really well, but it only served to highlight how nonsensical the rest of the season was. In season 2 it seems like they finally started doing it with some of the main characters (and most of the side characters) - but they decided to focus on the side characters over the MCs. Elayne, Liandrin, Ishy, *and* Lanfear all had more screen time than Mat until the finale. Add Anvaere and Verin to that list if you go by lines. Mat was pointless drama that made no sense, and that's about it. Perrin basically walked back and forth until the end of the season and watched other people have agency aside from two brief moments (not following Elyas, and releasing Aviendha - neither of whom had any bearing on the finale). Even Rand (who was almost exclusively in scenes with Lanfear or Moiraine throughout the season) had so few lines compared to them until toward the end that his lack of agency was painfully obvious by those statistics alone. The fact that our heroes were effectively forced into driving the action in the finale but weren't given anything interesting to do that they had much agency in felt like a train that jumped the tracks just before arriving at the station. The only character who brought it all together was Egwene... And ironically without the other characters (and if she had a sword) she could have done *everything* all by herself for the finale. I mean, she got out of the collar by herself, she defended against Ishy effectively by herself, and Rand slowly walked up to Ishy to stab him. Without Mat there Rand wouldn't have needed to be Healed either - everyone else could have simply cowered behind the OP Egwene and she could have saved them all. And that's ironic since they seem to be implying that the major theme is that everyone needs to work together (as the antithesis of the Forsaken/shadow) to succeed.
The wonderful thing in the books is that Rand never gives in to Selene. It's so disappointing to see him shagging her in the show. The whole point was that no matter how hard she tried, he didn't take the bait. Very important to his character and arc development. The casting is all wrong too. No offense to the actress, but in the books she is the personification of perfect female beauty. Even Loial makes this observation. The actress is too old for the part and though attractive, certainly not drop dead gorgeous like she is in the books. If they had just developed this story line and the Logain storyline the way it happens in the books it would have been a lot more cohesive and interesting. It will matter in the future, so they will either have to fix plot holes or just make up their own story. Another thing I enjoy in the books is that there is no overt sex. Rand is already having sex in the show before he even leaves the Two Rivers. This completely destroys the scene where he finally does have sex, and even in the books it is implied, but not explicit. It was done wonderfully in the books and it is an important plot line. I won't spoil it for those that haven't read that far.
It's not shielding between an Aes Sedi and Warder. It's called masking and only done so you don't feel each other, emotions etc. And the bond is very intrusive, a severed bond drives them close to madness.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS No, masking the bond just dulls the feeling of the other person who you are bonded too, severing drives them close to madness. Moiraine figures out a way to pass the bond through Elanna to Nynaeve though that's frowned apon.
The "I assume it's one of the boys..." quote is from the end of EoTW when Moraine meets with the Amerlyn Seat in Fal Dara. They are just lifting lines from the book and tossing them in willy nilly now.
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS ha! That definitely seems like a more favorable option than "this was a deliberate decision and we think this is a good story"
I'd recommend reading the prequel "new spring" after you finish the dragon reborn. It explains the Lan and moirainne back story. (and siuan) if I'd ever recommended the books to people I think I'd tell them to read new spring first as I struggled with the prologue in the eye of the world.... It made no sense until I re read it after getting to about book 8. I recall that moirainne can mask the bond if Lan is out banging. It does also explain Lans older lady who de-flowered him. Fantastic decolletage by the way.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I think it was released as a short story way before it came out as a book. I remember spotting the brand new hardback back in the early 2000's "blood and bloody ashes" at the local bookshop and phoning my friend in excitement... (after I'd bought it) He'd said he'd read it on the interweb years before...
@@damianhill6704 It came out in a short-story collection that really just covers the the basics. If you want more on how the Tower works, it has good stuff for that. It will prove that Moiraine is straight because that girl thirsts after every cute guy that shows up on the pages.
I don’t know why Fain would kill the fade. It was mordeth taking over fain that killed the fade in the books, but mordeth doesn’t exist so why include it?
Perrin is so butthurt about Fain "betraying" the Two Rivers after they were so kind to him (only words spoken on screen to him in Emond's Field - "You're a right bastard, Padan Fain!"), that he just assumes Fain will betray anyone, even his Fade guards. And for the record, recall in the books, how psychotically desperate the wolves were to kill the Shadowpawn and Fain. Here, they just watched him wipe out a village without doing anything.
They keep building up characters to have important upcoming encounters.... and then they never meet. Does Perrin ever en outer Padan Fain in season 2? Lol. Oh yeah. That's a good point about the wolves just standing by. Ugh.
I feel like In seasons 1 and 2, every character had their "moment" at least once. One good scene, one moment to shine. Some of them got many. All except Rand. You know, the main protagonist. You can say he had moments in s1e7, but that was just a reveal about being the dragon. He didn't actually do anything then besides looking troubled and some target practice
Setting aside the fact of Rand actually shacking up with Selene, cutting out Rand's role the whole hunt for the Horn, you're absolutely right that it wasn't believable that Rand and Selene's relationship offscreen was a big mistake. This why I don't get the praise the show is getting from some corners of UA-cam. The production value is obviously better. but the writing is just as bad as S1.
much later in the books logain turns out to be one of few men who just never goes insane, and Rand talks to him trying to figure out how. Maybe they are trying to bring that in much earlier in the story.
Perhaps... except that Rand never saw him in a perceivably sane state. I honestly thought he was sane before he was gentled, and now he seems off his rocker. Not sure what the show plans to do with this if he's supposed to be sane by the end.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS that is true, but from what we have seen the show writers haven't been all that great on delivering so I could see them doing this, without understanding how that would show it wouldn't work.
@@KadarianLord I could see them doing anything, honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to say that Nynaeve is the dragon from another timeline, or something. Lol. I know that sounds insane, but they really aren't following any rules. Not from the book and not from logic, in general.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS which is I feel a problem, I know most books don't move smoothly through adaption, but I must admit that I don't think I am going to be finishing this show.
Once again, thanks for the thorough review! I really appreciate all the effort you put into these - and don't feel any need to fake energy when this show wears you out. I still enjoy all of it, and I'm sure plenty of others do as well. The only question I had is... Why did Elayne not know she was in the novices area if she indeed has been to the Tower a number of times?
"Show Rand is not the same as book Rand" with a slight alteration says it all: "Show WoT is not the same as book WoT." (It sort of feels like show WoT is to book WoT as Spaceballs is to Star Wars, thought it's more sad than funny.)
regarding the Fade nailed to the door by Fain, in the books it is foreshadowed by the Trollocs escaping with the horn changing direction all the time as the Fades and Fain, who had been steadily regaining his autonomy due to the taint from Shadar Logoth, struggled for control. They kind of zigzag for days until Fain finally becomes strong enough to be fully in charge. I haven't seen the show so I don't know whether there is any such struggle.
Fain was never at Shadar Logoth and is still a loyal servant of the dark one in the show. He'd have no reason to kill a fade, and he doesn't have any power that would allow him to do so.
My fatigue shows in this one quite a bit. I'll try to amp things up better for episode 3.
Just be your genuine self, it's not like this video wasn't fun or anything.
@@MohseenLala 😊 I usually try to be genuine. This one felt like a chore, though, and it shows.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Heh, I think I've pretty much commented on every video...
"You put in far more effort critiquing and fixing the TV show than they put in creating and producing it.."
I'm pretty sure everyone watching understands that and appreciates your viewpoint. Lord knows your reviews are far more entertaining than the show...
You are watching the show for me, and then making it actually fun. Your fatigue doesn't impact that for me.
Take care of yourself
@saviourself687 Thank you 😊 And thanks for all the comments. I hope I replied to some of them. I used to be able to reply to all, but the comments are outrunning me, lately.
Rand doesn't fall for Selene in the books. He doesn't realise she's evil, but every single time she pushes him to claim power for himself, he rejects it.
Can confirm, she is completely different in the books.
This is one of the differences from the books that bothers me the most.
@@andreahultman8272 how can you pick??? This thing has been the ultimate Weird Al treatment of source material, with so many changes that the source material is irrelevant to the show
@@yissnakklives8866 Don't you dare put Weird Al on the same level as Rafe "I'll write anything to get Rosamund Pike naked" Judkins. XD
@@WatanukiProductionsRafe is gay. Doubt he wants to see her naked. That’s why they had entire episodes dedicated to warders that weren’t in the books
The carneira (the Malkieri concept of a sex tutor) is actually Jordan's creation, from the prequel novel "New Spring" which basically shows us a bunch of things Moiraine refers to in "The Great Hunt" from her backstory, such as the Foretelling she witnessed of Rand's rebirth and her meeting Lan. What the show is missing is the implicit criticism of the custom of a carneira, by showing how the relationship was exploitative and the woman in question seduced a barely pubescent Lan in order to gain a degree of influence over him, as the rightful king of Malkier and thus, the natural leader of its considerable refugee expatriate community. The point is that the young man in question owes his first lady a certain debt of gratitude and deference as a result, and Lan as an adult, can't really push back too hard against her, because the Malkieri expats really hold their customs dear and he would be letting them all down. In that story, he entertained the idea that certain efforts to kill him might have been engendered by her, so enable her to speak for Lan as the closest thing he has to family, without Lan inconveniencing her plans with his free will (it was actually Darkfriends who misunderstood the signs and thought Lan might be the Dragon Reborn).
The story is used by Jordan to deconstruct the myth of the attractive older woman who guides a young man through his sexual awakening, to show the reader how customs like this (often invented by fantasy authors for purely titillating reasons) can be exploited, as she takes advantage of his youth and inexperience to groom him as a vehicle for her own advancement. Naturally, the show kept that bit of backstory for strictly lascivious reasons.
For the record, Lan is not the type of man to bring up his sex life under any sort of questioning, not even his friends'. In the book, when an old buddy makes just an allusion to his carneira, Lan is ready to draw down on him right then and there. He's absolutely an old fashioned sort of guy in that regard. At one point later in the books, he is telling man something that a group of the female characters are keeping a secret, because he believes that man deserves to know for certain reasons, and the other guy goes "Those bloody women" and Lan, who thinks the women in question are in the wrong, still puts his hand on his hilt and says "I hope you're not speaking about (Nynaeve)" to which the guy hastily backpedals and assures Lan he means all the other women. This man is a general, who has some impressive accomplishments under his belt and is a badass in his own right, but he does not to get to even IMPLY he is talking shit about the woman Lan likes. This whole conversation with the Browns, just like the funeral and the scenes at Verin's house, and really, well, anything in which Lan plays a central role in this series, is absolutely out of character for him.
Thus is all so interesting and makes perfect sense.
Do you think tge showrunner is making fun of WoT? How could some of these themes go over their heads?
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS from what i have understood of things hes said(and done), he doesnt care, and revels in ruining the characters, particularly if there are complaints about hes treatin gthem
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Everyone in this fandom has their favorite stuff. When the series was ongoing, there were fan websites with message boards, where people would write essays and debate certain characters, or discuss the politics or military aspects, or try to puzzle out all the rules and limitations of the One Power. And for some people, it was all about their favorite characters or factions (I would defend the Children of the Light just to be a troll), and they would do fan fiction rewrites where their favorite character was the real hero and they would also push really hard for certain sexual pairings or trios (I recently had to unfollow a fan who is getting into the show and rereading, because they are obsessed with their own, completely out of the blue, uncanonical "polycule" of Rand, Mat, Elayne and the Aiel chick from later in this season, and can't write about ANYthing else, and I was getting sick of notifications of another essay about why this relationship, rather than the canonical ones those characters have, should be in the story, or pervy stories about their sex life).
Basically, an Egwene & Moiraine fan, whose favorite stuff is the Aes Sedai dynamics, was given the rights and a deal with Amazon to put his fan fiction on the screen. Lots of the changes reek of things people complained about over time, or fan theories, such as making Egwene ta'veren, because they think it merely means "important character" or making the characters "more adult" (which apparently means less mature, more petty, less sophisticated, less intelligent, more impulsive, with less agency, but they have sex). It reminds me of a Calvin & Hobbes strip, where they see a movie has "adult situations" and they wonder what that means, innocently thinking "things like going to work, paying bills and taxes, taking responsibilities" is what is meant by "for mature audiences."
They think they are fixing Perrin by having him appreciate Egwene channeling to light a campfire in season 1, instead of arguing about it, because all they see is a man telling a woman "no" and never mind that the conflict is organic to the two characters and grows out of Perrin's philosophy of being careful and avoiding causing harm and not taking risks with dangerous activities, versus Egwene's ambition and drive to empower herself and advance her abilities. Egwene is awesome and their favorite, so their capture by the Whitecloaks is all about her ordeal, not Perrin's and isn't it sooo much cooler that she escapes on her own, without help?
They think they are making Rand be a good ally by saying "Nah, that's not Egwene, she would never settle for being a housewife" and completely miss that they are making an actual woman, Madeline Madden, stand in a pose with a vapid smile frozen on her face while two men talk about her. Fans love to rag on the number of times female characters get naked (e.g. Accepted tests, baths, saunas etc) but there are no sexualized descriptions of their nudity, nor illustrations. But the show keeps making Rosamund Pike take off her clothes and shoots her with lighting and camera angles emphasizing her bare skin.
I don't think they are mocking the series, so much as occasionally making in-joke references or mocking certain aspects (Uno being infamous foul-mouthed but using WoT profanity, is something the fans love to laugh about, so they made him a butt of jokes on the show), so much as being idiots trying to take out the parts they like to play with or put them in places they think would be cooler, and don't care much about the character arcs, just the plot. They think character development is learning skills in the Power or weapons or revealing backstory elements, they don't understand what it means for Rand's character to be treated like a lord or why it's important that HE is the one to witness Ingtar saying the funeral prayer over the Darkfriends. As far as they are concerned if the season ends with a confrontation with the same villain at the Eye of the World or at Falme, with similar results, they have done right by the book, because they reached the goal of the book. As long as Rand fights Ishamael at the end, it doesn't really matter if they rejigger the whole story around to have a fun scene they thought up while brainstorming or daydreaming, or by buffing a character they like better than the ones around whom the first two books revolve, so they give her some of the actual heroes' accomplishments.
@@Gunleaver It's mildly disturbing to realize that self-proclaimed hardcore fans apparently aren't realizing what the books is about and that they like them for some... strange reasons.
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
It's said to not ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence yet in Rafe's case I'm not sure. He was vocal about hating Mat and "didn't understand Nynaeve" which is telling, not only about his media literacy but the fact that he didn't read the series
'I don't know how you could get away with learning sword forms in an insane asylum, or how you could learn anything this way'
"Write what you know."
I'm pretty sure it's a metaphor for how the showrunners learned cinematic language, and/or, how their writers passed the one creative writing class that they'd bothered taking.
In all-seriousness, if I'd turned in the scripts/storyline for this show in my public Highschool creative writing class, I'd have been forcibly removed by the on campus officer if I refused to immediately leave the room.
This happened more than once, despite the teacher being known for passing people if they could prove that they had tried...
That is to say, literal children in public school are held to higher standards than these people - zero hyperbole.
There were certain things you could do, which would get your entire semester failed automatically.
One of them was changing the gender/race/religion/etc of any existing character in a franchise, and the rest basically boiled down to wasting everyone's time in a hapless/selfish bid for attention (retconning your own work in a story smaller than 25 pages, for example).
The reasoning was:
To be a good writer, you need to be able to create engaging characters in a believable world.
To create engaging characters, you need to comprehend empathy and respect.
With no empathy, the characters motivations don't make sense.
Without respect, the rules of their society will not make sense - and everything about the character's lives will be a blatant/boring contrivance.
To create a believable world, you need to comprehend the importance of rules, and when to break them.
These rules inform the reader as to who is where, why - and what the stakes are...
Example: If a person, historically competent or not, were to see a Robin Hood story starring mostly black people - the chance that they'll be appropriately offended, and/or misunderstand your hopeless (if well-intentioned) allegory, are absurdly high.
Also, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to respect the authors who created the work that you're adding to, meaning that you must also respect their fans.
To say nothing of the gender/race/religion/etc that you've arbitrarily thrown away >.>
You need to have enough empathy to comprehend what it would be like, to have somebody so self-righteous as to not care about why/who your characters were... while, somehow, deeming it worthy as a vehicle for their own works.
Guy behind Robyn Hood: "Let's be real, none of you care about Robin Hood anyway" Then why in the actual Batman would you tell that story, if nobody cares about it???
The author chose the attribute, and ignoring that effort in order to justify swapping the drapes to a more fashionable color - with zero respect for why that character was who they were - is pathetic.
A character's gender and race generally inform who/what they are, what they've experienced, how they behave, where they literally are or, at least, where they've come from.
And when they go against that, the reason(s) for them being different are usually worth a few chapters of compelling reading all by itself...
People disagreeing with this are either:
-saying that a person's etc attributes are irrelevant to who they are, and therefor, there's no reason for anyone to need any unique representation in the first place. (self-defeating hypocrisy)
or
-saying that the original attributes somehow detract from who that character is supposed to be. (literal discrimination)
TLDR;
The kids that spent their days under trees reading and becoming fans of things like Wheel of Time, usually did so because they were being bullied/ostracized.
Now those same people, as adults, are being bullied/ostracized/slandered for having been fans of those works in the first place, putting them into a position to critique what has become of the thing that brought them through one of the worst times in their life.
History repeats...
You know what? Your closing note strikes a chord. Outcasts, when they've grown up, don't put up with shit the way they did as children.
I saw a snippet of an interview with Sanaa Hamri who is one of the executive producers of the show. She also directed episodes 3,4,7, and 8. The interviewer brought up one of the themes in the books which is the balance of power between men and women, and asked Hamri how important it was to bring that idea to the screen. Hamri's reply was very telling. She said that one of the things that drew her to the series was that the women are in charge. She went on to say, "The women are the ones who wield the power. They have the political power. They have the strength. They have the magical power. And then the men are kind of the supporting cast."
This shows how out of touch with the source material the people create this show really are. What Hamri describes is not a balance of power, but an imbalance of power. She misunderstands one of the primary themes of the novels. Robert Jordan presented a world where men AND women BOTH have power. The themes of gender equality and the interdependence of the sexes are woven throughout his work. How in the world did they miss something this basic?
The evidence of this and similar misunderstandings of deeper meaning are pervasive throughout the series. They don't seem to be able to see beneath the surface of events.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Btw, more good news. Sanaa Hamri is going to be directing season 2 of The Rings of Power. God help us all!
@@Guairedarksbane 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, to be fair, that balance is a goal, not a constant. At the outset of the series, things are not going well, because the world is out of balance. They need a major shakeup to break out of the status quo so the pendulum can begin to seing again. The producer is not wrong in that sense, they just don't grasp the way it is a bad thing and not a desirable state. That's the problem with their mentality. If you perceive this as a world where the women are in charge, why do you strip out any evidence of Nynaeve's power in the village? How can the Children stop and frisk a well-dressed woman on the road? How do they get away with stripping & scrubbing down Egwene? If the women have all the power, why did they also make Egwene and maybe Nynaeve ta'veren? Why float the idea that the Dragon Reborn could be female (down to changing the pronouns in the Foretelling of his birth from male to nuetral)?
The whole point of the ta'veren is that they are outsiders to the existing power structure who create new ways and new connections between people on the good side. The girls are also important, but they work through the establishment and conventional power structures like the White Tower, or royal status. Balance, and complementary roles. The showrunners clearly do not understand this, or else reject it in favor of a female chauvanism.
The women don't wield the power in the books. At least not alone. Both sexes have power and what power they have depends on the group or nation. It feels so disingenuous to ignore all the places men have power.
In my notes while watching, during a scene in the next episode, set in the White Tower, I had "suddenly, Mat and Min push a stone out of the wall and crawl into Egwene's room".
Anyway, the problem I had with Elayne's intro is that they had to make her awkward and stupid on a couple of issues to force the revelations and exposition. Elayne is highly trained for dealing with social situations. She is a royal princess, which means she was taught the art of condescension, not in the pejorative sense, but the specific skill of nobles to talk to their "lessers", without putting them down or engendering resentment, while still maintaining their social superiority. In any case, she was also trained in diplomacy, and Elayne herself is very good at this throughout the books. She is sheltered and ignorant of certain realities (see in tGH where she wonders how they are going to get new clothes when they don't have much money, because she has no clue how much common apparel costs or the relative value of their fancy silk garb to a farmwife's wool and linen), but she habitually avoids insulting anyone even by accident, unless they really piss her off.
But because the show needs to reveal her rank and wealth they have her denigrate Egwene's room and possession without thinking, and they have her completely ignorant of the realities of novice life in the White Tower. In the books, her mother spent several years in the Tower, and she had an Aes Sedai advisor, both of whom would have made sure Elayne knew what to do going in, because they both had high expectations for her and did not want her to put a foot wrong. On the show, it's worse, because she has spent several summers in the Tower as a guest!
The reason for all of these blunders is to rectify other adaptational changes they made. In order to make room for Dana the Dumpy Darkfriend and Steppin the Tragic Warder and have a role for Rafe Judkin's boyfriend (Taylor Napier, who plays Alanna's white warder - he & Judkins celebrated their 10th anniversary while shooting season 2), they cut out Caemlyn and the introduction of Elayne from Season 1. Because who wants to see a show where the hero encounters a beautiful princess? Best to save off-putting fare like that until we have earned the viewers' trust. Anyway, in the books, Rand made a big impression on the royal family, so when Elayne meets another person from Emond's Field in the Tower, she naturally asks about Rand, and because meeting a royal family is not something you just forget to mention, Egwene realizes who this must be from Rand's account. This neatly circumvents the quite sensible mandate that Elayne keep silent about her royal status, which both serves to keep her from being a distraction to the other students, while also reinforcing the authority of her teachers, by making a point that her royal birth means nothing in the White Tower. This is also a useful attitude to impart in the future queen of a country allied to the White Tower, to ensure the Tower has an advantage in the relationship, from having indoctrinated her as a young woman.
Instead, because they could not follow the structure of a story that was good enough to hook millions of people on a 14-book-long series, but thought they could better it, the Tower's indoctrination and discipline are made into a joke, all for the purpose of revealing to Egwene that her new BFF is a princess. Hell, why did we even need to know that? Why not just have Egwene befriend the new novice who is sometimes but she explains it away as having a sheltered upbringing, and then, someday, when they are in a social situation, or are passing through Caemlyn, they can have the big reveal of Elayne's secret, that she is the heir to a throne!
I'm still sure that they intended Elayne to be unlikable. Thus her awkward introduction as sheltered and pampered princess among our heroic underdogs E and N. And thus her blundres are portrayed as mistakes, and not achievements. Somehow they didn't realized that it would make her likable...
Anyway, she is white and privileged. It is major offense.
Make a video from this comment
Thanks again for putting so much time and effort into these. We really appreciate it, and you ❤
Wow! You guys are fast! I did the best I could with this one, but I was pretty burned out. Hopefully it's still entertaining.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONSvery entertaining made me giggle at work my colleagues now think I'm nuts
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS The combination of wry humour and exasperation is still very entertaining. And if you hadn't said anything about less clips, I don't think I would have noticed, there were still plenty (no idea how you find all of them).
The fade nailed to the wall was heavily implied to be Padan Fain's handy work in the books. In the books, Fain was tainted by his time in Shadar Logoth after merging with Mordeth and holding the dagger. This allowed him to fight the programming done to him by the DO and he was starting to get his own agency. This new will clashed with what the Fades and Trollocks wanted to do/go, which is why they kept zig-zagging around all the time. Eventually, Fain got enough control and used the dagger to kill the Fade in charge and nailed it up on the door to assert his dominance over the rest of the group, thus letting him lead them to the Seanchan instead of taking the horn to the DO. In the show, Fain never went to Shadar Logoth and is still a loyal subject of Ishy and the DO. In the show, Ishy's plan is to give the horn to the Seanchan (for some reason...) instead of the DO, so this entire scene makes absolutely no sense in the show. Fain isn't going through any struggles and has no reason to kill the Fade, but the show wants us to "know" it was him by having Perrin question it for some reason.
I still remember there being mystery and reason for the suspicion. The show just..... "do you think Padan Fain did that?" 🤦♀️
Better yet: As far as I am aware there is no reason whatsoever for Fain to be anybody special in the books. The Dark One's Hound? Perhaps, but not anyone with either the power or a reason to nail a fade to the wall. As the Dark One's Hound, he was being pushed around by the fades, not the other way around.
I haven't watched (and refuse to watch) season 2 though, so maybe they show us one reason for him to be powerful. In Season 1 however, there was literally zero reason for two fades to appear as his henchmen.@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
From what I gathered, the hunting party had observed the aftermath of a battle, found the body of a Shienaran darkfriend, and intuited that various factions that serve the Dark One were squabbling and fighting each other over the Horn. This fits the scene at the start of Ep. 1 where Ishamael gathers all his minions into a meeting; we don't get to hear the purpose of the meeting, since it's from the PoV of the little girl, but we do see that Padan Fain and a Shienaran soldier are both present. Moiraine mentions in the last episode that the Forsaken spent more time fighting each other as they did fighting the Light, so it does make some sense that Padan Fain keeps getting accosted on his way to deliver the Horn to Ishamael by other darkfriends who are eager to claim it for themselves - and each of them has their own shadow-spawn servants whom they pit against each other. Padan Fain does have the dagger at this point in the show, but it could be simpler than that - "What could do this to a fade?" Another fade.
I could have sworn there was a Fain POV in deep into the Great Hunt where he reminiscies about how he is ebbing and flowing in strength as he's changing from the Dark One's hound to something new and he staked the Myrdraal when he finally was in complete control. But it's definilty a mystery for the first half of the book and I remember being creeped out. Fades were so deadly in book 1 and 2, adn the idea that anyone could do that was frightening.
I reread the book recently and there is such a Fain POV. He really relishes in how people don't realize how dangerous he is. When he gets to Falme, there are also two lines about the assistant of Turok, one where Fain "decides how he would die" and one, months later, when we hear Turok note that his assistant just disappeared at some point. These establish for the reader that Fain is quite capable of getting what he wants, though we are not told of the how.@@Seomus
These edits have me rolling. You have great humor. At this point what can we even say. Selene is Lanfear and they cut a big chunk of really good stuff that would explain quite a few things lol
At this point, I'm just critiquing the show as it's own thing.
there was never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever an insane asylum in WoT! The Aes Sedai were keeping Logain in the tower for study.
I remember. I don't get why this is a thing, since Rand doesn't learn anything from Logain OR from Errol.
That little "Rand travelling to find other men who can channel" montage at 21:00 was more Hero's Journey than we've seen in two seasons of WoT
Lol. That's exactly why I put it there. It would have been an active hero we can cheer on.
Becoming one of my favorite channels, love seeing every new review you put out. I know it's a lot of time and hard work, it's much appreciated!
😊 thank you. Comments like these mean a lot.
Moraine forces Lan's bond, which doesn't exist anymore, to Alanna. That's basically how coherent the entire show has been.
Lol. I just don't get how anyone could approve of this.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONSJust wait until episode 8 “Jumping the Shark”
At least in the books (I think they have this conversation in book 2, so not spoiling) Moiraine does it out of love for Lan. She fears she will die and wants to ensure that he doesn't follow her and you can guess who she intends the bond to go to showing Moiraine would rather allow Lan to have happiness than to keep him as her companion. Still, it's horribly against tradition but at least her motivations weren't whatever show Moiraine's are. i'm not sure I undrstnad what show Moiraine thinks.
Wait! They've already handed Lan's bond over?
@@Seomus the passing of the bond came much later in the real story
The reveal of Liandrin's son had me burst out laughing because that's when it hit me that Moiraine threatened to send the Red Ajah after Liandrin's sickly son if she didn't keep her mouth shut. Our hero, everyone!
I bet the writers hadn't even decided who liandrin's man was going to be when they wrote that line for Moiraine in S1. They probably decided much later that it would be her son, so it makes Moiraine's line even more weird.
Yup. I assumed it would be a dark friend accomplice.
And that Liandrin would be ALMOST as worried about her Ajah finding out she has a male contact than the Tower finding out he was a darkfriend.
I would have found that interesting, to demonstrate the biases of the factions in the tower.
I don't HATE them trying to humanise Liandrin. I think the actress has earned the extra material. But I would sort of prefer her to be a more unrepentant villain.
@@Darm0k
@@DmGray In some other story character like show!liandrin would serve the purpose of demonstrating that villain with sob story is still a villain. Here I'm not sure. As usual.
@@DmGray - And herein lies the crux of the show. They are catering to the actors, not the story. They are warping the story around their big/bigger name actors, Rosamund Pike, Daniel Henney and Kate Fleetwood, (also Priyanka Bose). All of their storylines in the show are complete contrivances, and mostly for nothing by the end of the season.
- The entire Moiraine/Lan thing does nothing for 7 episodes in what could've been done in two.
- We humanize Liandrin and have her gain Nynaeve's empathy and trust. By episode 7 I'm sure Nynaeve would've happily followed Liandrin to Falme believing her intention was to help Nynaeve help Perrin, but instead all of that payoff is squandered just to have her knock out the girls for no good reason.
- Alanna and her Warders are made up to have some kind of intrigue with Lan, (is he going to kill himself? Is he in league with Lanfear?), and later Verin, (Don't trust her, with no reason not to trust her. What's she up to, one of her Warders follow Tomas for no good reason), only to go nowhere and they completely disappear from the show for the end.
- All of Moiraine's supposedly maneuvering Rand and Logain into the same asylum amounts to nothing when Logain admits he can do nothing for Rand.
These are all contrived stories that aren't in the books just to give these actors more screen time, instead of spending time on moving the actual main characters/story forward, and they ALL amount to dead-ends or nothing by the end of the season.
Yup.
But I DO have sympathy for the need to USE your actors that are "working" in the show.
I agree with giving Liandrin more to do (especially when combining several Black sisters roles. I'd have honestly given her Elaidas role too, even unplanned, on the strength of her S1 performance. S1 Liandrin was a villain you love to hate)
I also think setting up Alanna makes sense, long term.
The problem is that they don't commit. They go half measures and it makes a confusing mess.
If they don't want to kill Moiraine off... give her Cadsuane's role. Sure, it sucks. But adaptations need to make sacrifices. *I* wouldn't make that sacrifice, but it WOULD make sense.
It just seems that they don't ACTUALLY have a plan. They have a vague direction (which is ridiculous, considering they have complete source material and a rabid fanbase of experts) and ZERO ability to use the resources they have to tell the story that RJ wrote or even the one they seem to want to tell.
They KEEP needing characters to do things ENTIRELY out of character, or without apparent motivation, JUST to advance the story.
@@Perry_Wolf
You are my favourite reviewer of this terrible show. Thank you for your honesty and observational skills.
Oh wow! Thank you 😊 Check out Alteori, too. I just watched her episode 8 review because all my patrons were talking about it. She is hilarious.
Seconded!
Don't watch it.
@@LAF.2 I don't watch it immediately. I watch the reviews because they're funny and let me know if the show is worth watching. I've read the first 8 or so books so this particular reviewer speaks from a similar level of knowledge about the WoT universe as I have. As to understanding scripts, the shows scripts are contradictory and nonsensical, (haven't you been watching the reviews ?), so they are by definition impossible to understand by a rational mind. And, no, I haven't been really young for some time.
@@sundogfarseer6070 I've read all the books multiple times, I have a background in theater, and seen lots of positive reviews. I don't agree they are contradictory. I DO think there are some problems but 90% of the show is great. I think people have completely unrealistic ideas about what an adaptation like this would have to look like. Could it have been done differently? Sure. It's always easy to look at something that already exists and critique it than it is to create it first. The last episodes of season 1 were heavily rewritten due to Covid and no Mat. I think that meant there were some awkward choices but I think they have recovered nicely.
I've been looking forward to this video, thank you!
Random comments from a big book fan:
- In case you forgot what Amy told you about the Glossaries, there are a bunch of pronunications in there. Like, Seanchan is said 'SHAWN-chan'
- Not all female channellers are Aes Sedai, just the ones trained in the Tower who passed the tests.
- Buffy, Derry Girls AND The Vicar of Dibley? Madam, you spoil us.
- They said it takes eight sisters to gentle a man? How bizarre. Thirteen are used but only by Tower tradition. Thirteen being an important number in the books.
- Why do I feel like the majority of the showrunners sentences began with "let's just do this..."
- Why do they love mystery so much, it's really awkward
- The Seanchan in the books are supposed to look intimidating and 'other' for actual reasons. Here they've gone with scary, so I guess all Seanchan are evil in the show?
- Oh man, I kept looking out for hero-Shienaran-guy the whole season :D
- I don't like the costuming because why spend time on changing it from the books! Making work for yourselves and showing you don't understand the importance of clothing for a culture
- I understand what they're trying to do with the Forsaken's clothes but it makes them look like middle management
- Haha, you're right, they just give up digging through the walls!
- So glad Elayne has been done well. She's one of my favourite characters (up to about book nine)
- They can't resist making people's backstories more gloomy. The idea that the Daughter-Heir had nothing to do and was all lonely... So she wasn't learning how to rule? Have they cut her brother?
- Hello, contrived drama! Making Eg crap at Aes Sedai school cause #relatable
- So they changed the Grey Ajah to be politicians instead of negotiators and mediators? Kinda messes with the idea of Aes Sedai not (openly) taking power for themselves
- Cynicism time: Alanna has to be in every episode because Rafe's partner has to be in every episode
- Continuously making the Shadow-sided characters 'nuanced' and 'humanized' removes the impact of a friend revealing their true nature (avoiding book spoilers). There are no baddies in the show who are just evil.
- Book correction: a woman usually goes through the Arches when she's completed novice training and the Mistress of Novices judges her able to handle it.
Edited for grammar.
Lol. The forsaken looking like middle management is spot on. But I'm not sure I liked Lanfears BDSM Goth outfit either.
Bahaha Rafe made a character that didn't even have lines in the book iirc into an important side character just so he could cuck himself and film it 😂😂😂
@@blamberton7893 Even changed the guy's name, supposedly so as not to confuse us dimwitted viewers due to Thom's nephew, Owyn (like who remembers that poor guy), but more likely to avoid Owein's fate so he can be in every season.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Oof, no, that outfit seemed like a definite case of catering to the modern viewer's idea of 'sexy evil'. The woman doesn't need such clichéd pandering; she's compelling in her own right.
I didn't notice that they changed the number of women needed to gentle a man. They also changed the number of Forsaken to 8. Perhaps they can't count higher than ten? Or eight is an evil number for some reason?
42:15 Sorshen (spelling?) sounds like he can 100% see the past and and is trying to figure out 1) how you found out, and 2), a good enough lie on the spot to convince you otherwise
Funny to realize, that when Rand meets Selene in the book, he definitely feels that something is off about her and is clearly able to resist her charms. But then again, real Rand at this point is doing his best to behave himself as "officer and gentleman".
I remember him having suspicions about her, at first, but quickly dismissing them because she is so charming.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Her story also *may* be true. But hey, he wasn't tempted to use the Horn)
In the books, even without the sexual connotations invented for the warder bond by the show, forcibly bonding a warder is explicitly and directly compared to sexual assault by the characters. It was done in the past, but is very strongly disapproved of in the current era (kind of like forcible marriage). In the books, the Aes Sedai Warder relationship is stated to be mostly chaste. A warder bond has no effect on the sexual orientation of the warder, and they don't SHARE any emotions or physical feelings, just knowledge of the other's feelings. At one point, a male-attracted Warder is feeling the Aes Sedai have sex, because she forgot to mask the bond as Moiriane did before her tryst with Siuan, and despite experiencing the Aes Sedai's sexual encounter (this bond has a unique property that causes this pair, and only this pair to share physical sensations and emotions), the warder is STILL not attracted to the Aes Sedai's lover, disparaging his looks and suitability. The show changed all that, so Steppin the Tragic Warder is assuming that he will share Alanna's sexual interests once he is bonded to her, and be as attracted to her warders as she is. THIS MAKES IT *MORE* RAPEY! (in the case of Steppin, it also muddies the waters by leaving it unclear whether he killed himself because he could not go on without Kerene, or to avoid being inducted against his wishes into a sexual relationship with two men)
There is a part in the books where a group of Aes Sedai whose view of doing whatever is necessary does not necessarily exclude murder or torture or throwing a country into civil war to achieve a sufficiently important goal, react with horror to a sister bonding a man against his will for the purpose of protecting and keeping track of him, and are disgusted with her, even though they exploit the act for their own agenda. In regard to another forced bond, they speculate that the Hall of the Tower itself will punish the women who did so.
This is probably the most flippant slip up of the show, yet. I mean..... how could the writers NOT see that this is basically rape?
that's not strictly true though- ther's an aes sedai (don't want Spoilers) who is often described feeling things that are actually her warders feelings. She's even acting drunk once because her warder got wasted at a bar and only realises it when said warder comes back and enters the room. So they do share feelings if they aren't careful and it seems to take some time to distinguish effectively between their own and their warders feelings and keep the "border" up.
@@norealname1965 Yes, and even that extremely close bond, which is so strong because of a factor that applies to none of the bonds on the show, even that bond does not change the sexual orientation or attractions of the Warder! Even when FEELING the Aes Sedai having sex with a man that the male-attracted Warder does not find attractive, it does NOT change the Warder's mind and the Warder is still not hot for the Aes Sedai's lover! That's my point. If the bond between B & E does not change B's sexual interest from one kind of man to another, despite sharing the orgasm the man gave E, then why would Steppin think a warder bond is going change his whole orientation?
Brandon Sanderson has come out on UA-cam talking about the show, he actually live reacted to the finale with a couple of booktubers/authors, and he was not shy about speaking his mind, it was a little bran-melting to me watching the literal author of some of the books, and someone who had creative input into the show, break down all its weakest elements and things it could, and in his opinion, should have done better both overall and in the finale itself.
Rand and Selene's entire relationship is one million percent a writer wanting to have their personal kink/fantasy seen on TV. Nothing anyone will ever say can convince me otherwise.
It's not built up to, it's not supported, it does not otherwise progress the story, and it makes no sense given half the stuff that occurs during their relationship. It's not even GoT style "sexposition." It's pure fanfiction/personal gratification by whomever wrote it.
Haha. I think you're on to something. Especially with later scenes after Rand knows Lanfear is Lanfear.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS *gasp!* Spoilers!
The treatment of the Fades on the show makes me think they are a weaker, more stealth-oriented form of Shadowpawn, who are scouts or something like that, who find the prey for the Trollocs. There is absolutely no way to infer that they are far more powerful and dangerous creatures who lead the Trolloc armies and even the whole cause of the Shadow until the Forsaken return ((in tGH, when Fain disappears from the Fal Dara dungeons after the Trolloc attack, the Aes Sedai are discussing it, and Siuan says something wondering why the Fades think he is important, and the clear implication is that they are the leadership who make the decisions about who and where the Shadow attacks and so forth). Remember, Thom kicks one all the way across the room in the farmhouse. Why should we be scared? We didn't see it during the attack on the village, which leads one to charitably assume the writers know what they are doing and it's weaker and less combat-oriented, so it sat out the fight. Since the attack failed, the fact that the most powerful creature from their faction did not take part makes the Shadowspawn look even less competent. As it is, you would assume Fades are cowards, since one just shrieks in the village square after everyone has gone to bed, and then never shows itself again, until there is a river between it and the heroes, and their cowardice is well-founded, because a musician goes up against one, with a knife against a sword, and we never see the Fade again.
You've nailed it. I mean sheesh! Why the hell are we scared of these things if Moirain can easily kill one with a dagger?
I think what's going on here is what Orson Scott Card pointed out in How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy: amateurs (or new writers) tend to make every story an Idea Story (i.e. a mystery). They think suspense comes from withholding information from the reader.
I used to own that book, before I loaned it to a friend. You’re spot on though, that’s exactly what the show writers have done. There’s barely any creativity in doing things that way.
This is so accurate! I talked about this in mu 6hr review, but cut it and decided to save for a later episode. So spot on. Mysteries are not withheld information. It's information that is right there in front of the reader, but it's so well integrated into the scene that the observer doesn't realize it's related to the mystery.
Thanks for reviewing this. I enjoy yours the most. I have read the books since the 4th one was published. Reread the entire series prior to each release. I am so disappointed that they didn't show me the books come to life. You have made me realize why some of the things I was disappointed at disappointed me.
Wow! Thank you for this! It really helps a lot. And I am so glad you like the videos. 😊 Hopefully I can keep making reviews you enjoy. 😋
32:07 I’m on the fifth book rn so I can’t say for certain as I have heard this from others who have read ahead, but I’m pretty sure that severing a bond in the books pretty much gives you a unique kind of PTSD
Woke up to this. Pleasantly surprised. Anything can be work and taxing. You’ve put the care into these videos to make them something that will stay.
Yay! I hope I can keep this up.
Moiraine thought Rand would win the last battle at the Eye of the World. Instead he let out Ishamael. That seems like it would make you question that Rand even was the dragon reborn, but she doesn't. Also, she could not have known about the prophecy on Toman Head or she was dumb enough to think that the Dragon would proclaim himself AFTER he won the last battle. She spent 20 years researching the Dragon and knows basically nothing. Also, Rand didn't proclaim himself at Toman Head. Moiraine faked the prophecy on his behalf. Nobody at the tower knows Rand supposedly the dragon. Why don't they think Nynaeve could be the Dragon. None of it makes a lick of sense.
Yeah, now they have another season to keep the dragon mystery spooling.
The show writers will claim to have brilliantly dodged the prophecy-related plot holes you point out with Moiriane and Suian's bedroom scene in season 1. The one where Moiraine completely dismisses the reliability of the Karaethon Cycle because "There have been so many different translations," and suggests that a random story she heard from a gleeman in a random tavern should be put on the same level as the actual Prophecies of the Dragon.
Leaving aside the fact that the writers are too stupid to know that having loads and loads of translations of a document actually increases your ability to know what it actually says rather than decreasing it, they still wrote themselves into the ridiculous position of having Moiraine not believe a word of the prophecies she has dedicated her life to seeing fulfilled. Except when it's convenient for the plot, at which point she will believe precisely as much as is convenient for that one scene.
@@DankworthBalthazar yeah, if in this world they don't take prophecies seriously (despite it's a known phenomenon) why they didn't dismiss said phenomenon as nonexistent?
@@DankworthBalthazar
Well said 👏
Most people don't understand that the more extant translations of ancient scripture we have, the more accurate we can make the modern translation. What you described is actually a real thing.
This is how we know the reliability of the New Testament we posses today is essentially identical to the one wrote in the first century.
Because thier are hundreds of copies that survived antiquity Scholars are able to compare and contrast.
Any mistakes made intentionally or not throughout time can be sussed out quite easily.
@@MultipleGrievance I started writing a long explanation of that in my previous comment, but decided I had made too much of a wall of text already. Thanks for filling in some more detail.
Your referential clips are on point, Amber. 😄
Always put a smile on my face.
Thank you for putting so much time and effort into these, your videos are so much better than the actual show:)
😊 Thank you.
The work you put in these is insane! Thank you. 🙏
The actor who played the Shienaran badass (Arnas Fedaravicius) knows what he's doing; he's an alum of _The Last Kingdom_
I'm gonna be checking this show out, now.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I won't claim he was doing stuff like this on TLK, but it did give him a solid foundation to build off of. And if you enjoyed the early seasons of GoT, you should love TLK.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS The Last Kingdom has better writing, better acting, far more impressive fight scenes, doesn't skimp on extras... the only downside is that if you start watching the show you'll lose all motivation to do another review of WoT!
@step4018 Between season 1 episodes, I watched a cheesy Chinese historical soap opera to decompress (they take no brain power to absorb). The story was sappy, the music was corny, the cgi was embarassing, and the lead actrsss couldnt act at all. But even THAT was better than the WoT show.
I have listened to numerous breakdowns of season 2, being my primary reason for even watching it, and yours is my favorite so far. I will likely continue through the episodes. Definitely see the editor skills and perspective shining through in your well-reasoned 'maybe we could have...' scenarios. Speaking as a writer who has collaborated in groups and with professional and semi-professional editors.
You're on point for sure, so kudos!
I admit to being curious as to your take on the differences between Jordan's writing and the man that had to finish the books, Sanderson, whenever you get there.
Thanks for this. Just to assure folks, I am continuing with my reviews for Season 2, I'm just gonna be putting them out more slowly. They are a major pain in the rear to record and edit.
I'm only on book 4, so far. I'll probably mention it in my videos when I get to the end of the series, but my plan was to take a break after book 4. I don't want to get burned out.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Makes sense, and I can definitely tell they have a lot of work put into them, especially all of the video cuts, sound effects, etc., for emphasis. Which was, of course, awesome. :P
I could understand even waiting on the books until season 3 of the show comes out, though things are unclear to me what they'll focus on with how jumbled it is.
@@ShoMorphias The word on Season 3 so far is not promising.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS With quality/accuracy? That's a given lol. I actually just watch it to hate on it. I knew what I was getting into, though season 1 was twice as bad.
It's a bit like Mystery Science Theatre Hour, though admittedly with better acting and this and that I like entertainment-wise.
@@ShoMorphias I wish it was as bad as season 1 (I thought the writing from line-to-line was way worse in season 1). I could have more to laugh at if is was as bad as season 1. Now, I'm just... bored.
I couldn't bring myself to watch season 2, and this blatant character assassination of Moiraine would have broken me if I had any hopes left for the show. In the books, she and Lan were a real team, and even when they disagreed, there was never any doubt that she cared deeply for Lan, loved him, and respected him.
I don't know why I am so shocked and upset at this point considering I already knew they weren't going to try telling the story from the books, but damn.
Also, Perrin with a sword is just... wrong.
Remember, that when she left certain two letters, in both of them she asked the addressees to say some words for Lan. And only Lan.
These people should be writing for the CW.
I'm with you. It took me 3 times to get through Season 1 (really, Perrin was married? He's supposed to be like 15), and I made it through about half of the first episode of Season 2 (let's turn Moiraine into the generic helpless female trope...who apparently is Black Ajah since she can pull a knife on someone who hints about the Dragon Reborn) before giving up. They essentially gutted the series, filled the hollow carcass with teen drama and generic sub-plots, and called it good.
I had hope because Lan and Moiraine had such a nice dynamic in season one but nope. Let’s push that out the window.
The element is actually in the books much later (see: New Spring,, the novel)
The bit Moriaine referenced when she saw the Trolloc heads on spikes happened in "New Spring", but it was from Lan's PoV. He asked Moiraine why she was looking at the heads and she said the line about can't imagine the courage to face Trollocs without the One Power, which Lan reads to mean she has faced down Trollocs before. This elevates her in his eyes from "pain in the ass lady who tried to take my sword and keeps insulting me with her ignorant southland ways" to someone who has done some shit.
According to Moiraine, it was the pond incident that made her choose him, which is why Adeleas says what she says about the pond and its bearing on the job of a warder. The CONCEPT is accurate, strongly implied in the books, though never articulated by any actual Aes Sedai/warder characters (it's only ever stated when the new girls find themselves in the position of getting a warder), because Aes Sedai are the top dogs and have a supreme sense of dignity and gravitas and they would be appalled at Alanna's sexual behavior wrt a novice or Adeleas' general sleazy deportment, or a lot of the bullshit antics on this show. But for their own reasons, they decided to cannibalize the line about the Trollocs as the "real" reason, because Moiraine is so awesome they don't think she needs Lan to help keep her grounded.
Amy Stewart has a theory that the showrunners threw the books in a blender and took turns drawing scenes and lines out.
The conflating shielding and severing. Shielded people can always sense the Source but can't reach it, not to mention they don't suffer the crippling suicidal depression that someone severed does.... There's no mistaking those two! It's like confusing having local anesthesia numbing your arm so you can't move it, and having your arm cut off. If it's just numbed, things attached to it stay in your possession (warder bond) but if it's cut off they don't. What the #;_#(+* are the show writers thinking/doing?
It always comes back to that question. If they don't like the characters, and they clearly don't want to follow the plot, and they aren't interested in the lore, _WHY ARE THEY MAKING A WHEEL OF TIME SHOW_ ?!
They aren't thinking. They just doing whatever they want at given moment.
This is the mystery of the year. I am baffled by this.
I think we’ve established that there are no hard rules for the magic system in the show. It’s just being used as a deus ex machina for whatever plothole they’ve dug themselves into at any particular moment. Or if they think it looks ‘cool’. Whatever.
knowing how you feel about "off page" development I've gotta say you are in for some pleasant surprises this season. No wait not pleasant, horrific. That's the word ... horrific, nightmarish surprises await you. Enjoy!
Ugh.... why?!
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I'm reminded of this Futurama scene
"We can't swallow those pills"
"Good news, it's a suppository"
Recently found your channel and I am thoroughly enjoying your WOT S2 episodes critique. I have read the entire book series and although much is changed for the adaptation, there are many little subtle Easter eggs for the book readers.
Now on to Moiraine...one should be asking "who sent the fades to kill her?" Moiraine knows who has (in ep2) but there is no indication of this in this episode. She loves Lan and she cannot bear the thought of possibly getting him killed. That is the reason behind her hurtful and disrespectful words and actions. She is trying to push him away to save him. You can read "New Spring" at any point. It will give you more context regarding Lan's and Moiraine's travels before they reach Edmond's Field.
"Little subtle easter eggs", eh? That's how its called? Not a "Here is a proof that we are conciously warping the lore"?
Don't edit a 6 and a half hour video.
Upload it all raw. I'll be here for it 100%.
Definitely one of, if not my favourite reviews of the series, even though you're not as fire and brimstone as I would be about it.
I'm sure I could be a lot more harsh if I knew the books all the way through. I'm guessing there's a lot they are screwing up that goes over my head, as I'm only in book 3.
Haha. There's far too much swearing in the long cuts.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS For me it's about why they're screwing up as much as the fact they're screwing up, given comments Rafe has made it strains credulity for me to believe it's incompetance or an accident. There's a couple of particular scenes I'm really looking forward tro seeing/hearing your opinion on (i think like eps 6 and 8 but I can't remember) as one should have been pretty meaningful based on what happens in the books and instead its just "whatever why is this relevant" because they cut the book scene and instead we had moiraines political family drama that never happens, and something that ties into that is one of the coolest scenes in book 2 that gets cut.
Could always upload them as patreon/ko-fi perks?
@@JohnTCampbell1986 oooo! I'm intrigued. Mainly because I just wonder which blunder (of the many that there are) you are referencing 😋
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS It involves swords. (Got it yet? ;) ) role models (or lack thereof) (Surely now :P ) and general badassery. :P
Back to watching, because I'm a man and in fact we cannot multitask, even if it's watching a video whilst not being on autopilot and typing a reply
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Give it to us raw, and wriiigling!
21:15 i agree, although i think it'd be generous to also keep the option that the writers had included a meeting but that it was cut by editors/producers/directors later (since apparently a lot of stuff was cut from season 1, or so i heard). still could be improved regardless, but yeah.
Yeah, some of these cuts I've heard about were very bad decisions. But it was still self-contradicting with the stuff that was left in, so... ????
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS yeah, even if the pre-cut version made sense (which who even knows, although i like to err on the side of ppl doing their job the best they can), the fact that no one went over the post-cut product and realized it didn't always make sense is a little... sad.
Love these reviews.
I was in a discussion with a show apologist who was trying to suggest that all of our complaining will just keep anyone else from wanting to try to make a better show. To which I replied, "Good. I'd rather see no show than one done so poorly. Why would you support mediocrity?"
Exactly. I don't understand why people think that constant praise would result in a better show.
Yep, never understand settling for mediocrity, or worse, active malice towards the books.
No show is indeed better than one which sets out to subvert the books, and is horribly written and produced in the process.
To people who say ‘why do you care, let people enjoy the show, it doesn’t hurt the books or Jordan’s legacy,’ I disagree.
The show is now the first contact point for WoT for new people, and the awfulness of the show rubs off and taints the books in the eyes of the wider community.
Already show discussions, details, images, videos, and plot summaries dominate internet search results for WoT. You now have to wade through a pile of show nonsense to find pure book content online.
Worth noting, to claims WoT was unadaptable, that there are no-budget amateur WoT fan films on YT that have more heart, soul, passion and talent in them than this mega-budget ‘professional’ show. It can be done, it just needs the right people steering it.
So until we get a faithful WoT adaptation produced and written by talented fans who understand the story, themes and characters, I’m just fine with the books.
Great response! 👍🏼 I approve!
"Father Goose" Great old movie. Remember that Maoirane and Nienieve have conversations that gives her the idea that She could go to the tower. but it would be hard for her as She is too old to be a novice. and she has to overcome her block.
Father Goose was a favorite of mine as a high schooler. I was so weird.
I totally lost my shizzle when Morraine broke one of the 3 oaths by using the One Power as a weapon and blowing up the Seanchan ships. I mean why not just cut the threads of spirit to stop them shielding Rand.
Wow! I didn't know that could be done. What a simple solution!
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Will be shown a bit later in the books.
Solid review! I’m blown away by some of the choices. I can’t decide if it’s too many cooks in the kitchen or just lazy writing. Probably a bit of both. Regardless, I’m turning off my book brain and enjoying it. Your reviews always snap me back to reality. This show has the potential to be so much better. Fingers crossed for S3.
The only way season 3 will improve is with a whole different writing team and a showrunner who cares about continuity.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS You are probably right. I noticed that Rafe Jundkins is in a long term relationship with one of Alanna’s warders (Taylor Napler). It makes me wonder how much of the terrible Lan/Moraine plot line was done to pad his screen time. That type of decision making, if true, doesn’t bode well for future seasons. I know they don’t want to be GOT but I can’t stand the YA stuff. Season 2 was better but that’s not saying much.
The cooks did the writing?
@@bigjonS4 It’s an expression. I can explain what it means if needed. You can also look it up on Google.
@@Beginyesterday You could try looking up what a 'joke' is on Google
Fantastic editing. 🎉
Wow! Hurray! Thank you 😊 This really does help me a lot. I hope I can keep making videos you enjoy.
Ms girl for real release the 4 hour ones. I could watch these FOREVER.
Lol. Thank you. But I'd wanna die after all that editing. And yes. It needs the editing. I'm astonishingly boring when I just talk at the camera.
I look forward to your reviews more than I looked forward to episodes of the show. You're brilliant at this.
Aww. Thank you. I hope I can keep doing a good job.
This Loandrin is absolutely a different character than the one in the books. When we first meet Liandrin in the books: "... and fair-haired Liandrin in her red... Not only young-seeming but young and pretty, with a doll's face and a small petulant mouth."
So the first thing we learn is that she's _actually_ young. No grampa-aged kids. No rules against Aes Sedai having kids (though it's mentioned that it's rare) but the red Ajah is pretty strongly misandrist as a rule, so would probably get pretty judgemental if a red Sister got pregnant.
And this leads to one question: why?
To be fair, these sorts of differences don't bother me. I'm more concerned with her having more dialogue, screen time and back story than Mat, Perrin and Rand combined.
@@bigjonS4 Valid. One more bewildering choice to add to the pile I guess.
Love what you’re doing. I’m continuing to watch the show only to see your dissection. I read the complete series years ago, so the books are not as fresh with me as they are with you, but the incongruities seen in the show are still glaring to me. Going into the production planning for this show I am left wondering just how many seasons they planned for to tell the entire story. Anyway, big thanks for your audit. Very entertaining.
This is such a nice treat to wake up to.
Keep the expectations low. This one isn't my best. But I'll try again for the next one.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Dude, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. We can see all the effort you put in and in my opinion it pays off in the quality of your videos. For me though, the most important thing is your take, so if it was just you, standing in front of a blank background, outlining your thoughts, I would still watch it.
I love your long videos. I love your logical deduction, your love for a good story, and your willingness to point out when something doesn't make sense. I mean seriously, I'm not a writer of any stories but it really makes me wonder how the writers of the show doesn't see all these issues in continuity that has nothing to do with the books at all, within the story some of them make no sense. So thank you for pointing these things out in such an eloquent way.
Thank you 😊 Honestly, I think these blunders are so ridiculous, even an average Joe must notice them.
Can we get the super casual "deep reflections" channel with the full 6.5 hour unedited video? :p
Thanks for the video, we needed this!
Now that's a brilliant idea, I would subscribe.
12:00 The series is long. The sword thing comes up later; it's good that they mention it early.
22:00 Morraine is full of half-truths. It was very irritating to read but because she cannot lie it comes in handy to postpone your half on the conversation while the other reveals what they want. It would likely come as second nature very quickly.
At 30:25 re: Season 1 Sa’angreal. We have it on good authority that the episode 1 prologue was a re-shoot, meaning most of episode 1, and then 2-6 were filmed without Moiraine having this, which is why there are continuity problems such as the search by the Whitecloaks.
Other continuity issues arise from this re-shot prologue too. The most obvious would be what Moiraine witnesses Liandrin doing, and then forgetting about it when they have their spat at the White Tower, and Moiraine ultimately deciding to blackmail Liandrin with her… son. Rather than the man she gentled without authority and against Tower law. 🤦♂️
Oh good catch about Liandrin.
I don't have much to say about the reshoots except that they should have delayed until after the pandemic. It's Amazon. They have the funds. Better to delay and put out a great show, than to reshoot with such a bad ending. But, then again, the rest of the show wasn't good either, so they didn't have much to save. 🤷🏽♀️
YAY! A new one! :D
I'm watching the show through you. Can't be bothered to be tortured alone.
You aren't missing anything. I wouldn't be watching if I wasn't doing these reviews.
I wish that South Park would come out with an episode of 'The Wheel of Time' Panderverse.
100%
I never understood why the Aes Sedai would have spent all that energy on Logain to then spend more energy sending him multiple countries away and leave him unmonitored. He was captured in Ghealdan, then they ship him all the way to Cairhien and just walk away?
I think the idea is that he is stilled permanently. In the book, he is no danger to anyone but himself, once that's been done. It's like... he's been permanently disabled. As far as the one power is concerned.
The vision that is experienced in the house, with the family being horrified at their dinner being interrupted, is eventually revealed in the books to be a side effect of Padan Fain's powers. It does not technically matter whether it was Rand or Perrin who saw it, because it does not related to the One Power or to the wolf powers. Later in the series, Rand has a similar vision of the prelude to another of Fain's murders, and it is in a place where he is cut off from the One Power. It's really just a horror element, and in the show's defense, Jordan did not make that clear for a long time either (ten years between tGH and the book where it happens again).
Ok. I've had conflicting comments about this, but yours makes the most sense.
I always thought it was a bubble of evil, but Fain has weird powers. I think I know what you're talking about. In FM, right? The later books really blend together where as that one really stood out to me and mirrored the weirdness bubbles of evil cause.
@@Seomus Yeah, where you referred. I think the first bubble of evil was the strange wind that disrupted Rand's sword lesson early in Book 2. Moiraine describes them ramping up over time, so the rather unremarkable nature of that one, just a sudden impossibly strong wind, suggests it's not very strong, but that would also mean there would not be another one so relatively soon, just a couple of days later, back at that point when they are first starting out.
@@Gunleaver I haven't read this book since I reread the series in preparation for Memory of Light's release. I think you're right about it being a trap left by Fain for Rand. Sorry for leading you astray with bubble of evil, though they do very similar and fun things.
@@Seomus No worries, you didn't. I was just explaining why I did NOT think it was a bubble of evil.
Hiding what's going on then revealing it isn't going to wver lead to an "oh wow" moment, it's just telling people what had been going on after confusing them. If instead they _showed_ people what was going on, then revealed the _consequences_ (obvious only in hind sight) of that, that's how you get "oh wow..." (or "oh no!") moments.
This is a spot on observation. Later in the season, I'll be talking about how the writers don't seem to understand buildup and payoff. Your note is getting right at the heart of it.
I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at 1:18:45 because your comment there shows just how far this show gets from character motivation in the books. I'll just say that there is a character where healing is a big deal and leave it at that.
Why does Matt choose that wall, not the one one the outside?
Elayne would gave known the novice decorating rules after spending summers at the tower.
Excellent point about Elayne.
The only excuse I can think of for Mat choosing that wall is.... maybe Lianfrin would have been suspicious if he moved furniture in front of the outside wall.
That's giving the story way more benefit of the doubt than is deserved.
I can’t imagine having to edit down a 6 hour video lol. It’s a good decision you kept it at this length.
Also I can’t wait till you get to the finale. That’s gonna be a fun one to tear apart
This was edited down from a 3.5hr recording. My 6.5hr review is in the recycly bin on my computerre-record. Cutring it down for about 2 days and then decided to re-record.
I put this tv show in the same category as Paramount's Halo, Netflix' Shanarra chronicles, Amazon's Rings of Power, and Disney's Star Wars: They dont exist. I dont even think the writers bothered to look at the content before carelesly destroying something so many people loved dearly. Nor did it look like they cared about what they were writing.
1:38:35 Exactly!!! you hit it on the head, as expected, sister! 💯
Joining the accepted is about having the will to leave old ties behind and join a cause greater than oneself. It's quite similar to the catholic nuns (and probably inspired from it). And of course, It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with one's proficiency with the One Power.🎉
This is why Egwene in the next episode pisses me off so much.
Love your videos! Thank you so much for your time and effort. I look forward to every one and watch them with my friends.
Regarding Elayne tinkering with things and solving problems, that's actually good set up for things to come, and much more important than showing her able to heal things, which I don't think is called back to past book 1.
They were in a no-wing scenario of their own making with the sword training because they stupidly made him fake his death in season 1 rather than just have him sequestered away in hiding with Moiraine and Lan. It would even have worked with their lost link plot for Lan, the other Aes Sedai would want to keep him busy like they kept Moiraine busy to keep his mind off killing himself. Training Rand in the sword would be the PERFECT work for him to take his mind off of things.
Oh I like this. I wish theybdid this!
It’s more than incompetence, taking the significance of sword training off Rand and giving it to Nynaeve instead was intentional subversion.
The writers are trying to update the story to subvert traditional gender roles and book elements they consider outdated and problematic, hence why most of the female characters are now all martial arts experts taking down Trollocs and Fades and saving themselves, whilst most of the men are incompetent, helpless, and need someone (a woman) to save them.
Intentional subversion. Rafe admitted this was his goal on Twitter. He thinks this is ‘feminist,’ even though many actual feminists disagree and have pointed out that flawless Mary Sue girlbosses actually undermine female characters and make them less appealing to a general audience.
Sorry, that wouldn't work. For that, the writers would have to treat Lan with some respect, and we can't have that.
I don't think they are going with rand being a swordmaster...
@@zionmarcelo indeed, apparently they want Nynaeve (who they managed to provide with Warder sword training this season despite ‘not enough time’ to give Rand any) to be the sword fighter of the group because… reasons.
Selene and Rand in the show - I have no problem with Rand having met an older woman and shacking up. She’s beautiful, intelligent, sexy, he’s sad and lonely, she’s likely pushing for it. I think very few men would turn this down in his situation. After a bit he starts to are for her and then starts to realize he is in danger of the same problem he had with Egwene. In time though he starts to sense what she is - a trouble of ambition who is only in love with what Rand can bring her. And all this of course parallel’s Lanfear’s relationship with Lews Therin. Selene likes to provoke Rand and so he throat grabs her. Like you said Rand in the books would never do this but I just think show Selene is constantly trying to get a rise out of him. Rand stalking the guy and losing control and it looked like killing the guy. Hard to imagine Rand doing this at this stage and frankly a really bad light to put the main hero in.
Moiraine and Lan - hard to even parse how badly the show has managed this. I don’t believe it either. These characters have spent 20+ years traveling together, caring about each other, having their lives in each others hands. It gets fixed later but Moiraine would never treat Lan this way and Lan would never put up with it. This is just another way this show is making men look weak and subservient and women look like heartless manipulators.
The bond - the way I see this (and RJ never gets deep into an explanation) but basically if you are gentled/severed its like losing a limb, being shielded is like the limb goes numb or be paralyzed. For purposes of the bond Lan can’t feel it. That might tamp down the way it feels to make him wonder if its gone. It might tamp down his powers too. I am not aware of bonds ever being taken or stripped in the books but Ae Sendai can pass them around whether the warder agrees or not.
The power and the madness - there is no safe way to use the one power for men and not go mad. That’s just not an option. It may be that the way the madness takes hold is by connecting male channelers with other versions of themselves from other ages. That seems to be Randy’s experience. Having another version of you in your head all the time could ultimately cause madness. Rand never seems to get there and RJ never explains why or how the madness works.
Rand and Logan - I liked that Rand went through these manipulations to get to Logan. It felt like the first time he stops reacting and starts acting. Hope we get a lot more of it because Rand is the MC and has too often seemed helpless and naive. The books make a great deal of his need to become hard and tough like steel at this point, almost to the degree of losing his humanity.
Verin and Moiraine - I love Verin in this. She is both smarter and wiser than Moiraine. And she is supposed to be an older more powerful and more learned Aes Sendai. She is great.
Horn of Valere - RJ basically doesn’t use this well and the show doesn’t improve on it. This whole book is named this and it basically never seems super prominent or critical. Trying to remember if it even did anything in the last battle?
Padan Fain - The show does him totally wrong. They have hm too strong too early, almost like a Forsaken. Fain hates the Dark One, hates the Forsaken, hates everything really. When he gets to the point where he is learning to stake and control Myrdraall he’s not on anybodies side but his own (not even pretending) . When he is in the employ of the Dark one he is sniveling and weak. When he gets his power he is conniving and narcissistic. He is really a mix of Gollum and Agent Smith from Matrix.
Perrin - all good.
Mat & Min - didn’t love this at all, don’t think this Min is very Min. Don’t like the way they have handled her vision ability, it’s more symbolic in the books.
Elayne and Egwene - agree great! Elayne is an MC btw. Egwene has no blocks.
Liandrin and Nynaeve - I think giving dark friends a reason for why they are what they are is good. Lliandrin is more interesting and intelligent as a villain this way and we get to see growth in Nynaeve in the interactions. So again well done.
This episodes gets Perrin, Egwene, Elayne correct and does ok with Rand, if not perfect. Moiraine/Lan it continues to mess up as well as Padan Fain. It’s not perfect but its much improved over S1.
About 92-94% of what we saw in Season 1 we never saw in the books, why would we expect Season 2 to be anything different?
I really can't conceive how or why anyone who claims to be fans of the books would feel anything but disgust over what's being done to Robert Jordan's world, lore and characters.
15:31 My interpretation of the chocking scene was that they had already done this kink before and Rand knew that it would be fine, but honestly I don’t understand this show at all so who knows?
This wasn't dull at all. I can tell it is difficult for you to accept the praise. Hopefully one day you'll be able to say, "fuck it, I guess people really do like me!" lol You're editing is very well done, your references and memes are timely and relevant, your frustrations are shared by many of us long time fans, and you do a very good job at putting that into a video that is pleasant to digest. I was looking forward to this video, and the next one and so on.
😊 Aw. Thank you.
I promise to keep trying.
she literally talked about herself for the first ten minutes. She's a narcissist.. not shy
So, haven't quite finished this video, but I had to mention a couple things. One: As far as I can remember, Nyneave was never a novice...She was made accepted pretty much as soon as she got there, or within the week. I don't fully understand why they felt the need to change that. Not even going to talk about the whole thing with Mat. And Second, and maybe this is just me, but a pet peeve of mine with some of these newer shows is...The wardrobe. Does the department like, not get much funding and/or time? Like, the costumes themselves aren't horrible, but they, to me, feel too...new, all the time. They don't look like they are worn. They don't feel right because of it. No wearing out around where movement is there. No dirt and/or dust/mud build up with the ones traveling (or at least not enough) and always much too clean all the time. At least, that's what it feels like to me. Anyone else get that same feeling?
Costumes looks like secondhand cosplayer' stuff, period.
I think they were worse in season 1, but yeah. Everyone sends their costumes out for Aes Sedai dry cleaning every night.
To be fair, season 2 costuming was a big improvement over season 1.
I don’t know why they changed it either but I also don’t know why Nynaeve was promoted on arrival as she came in with the absolute worst attitude and Siuan was already over it before they got off the boat.
I think the suggestion is it’s about power level but it’s vague and it’s also a dumb move on their part. Why reward someone who is acting like a spoilt child and expect them to stop doing that?
@@foxesofautumn Nynaeve IS extremely powerful, she had the spark and she clearly had a knack for healing. Thus she goes straight to advanced training. Plus, being an Accepted is not really better than Novice. What doesn't make sense is that show tried to promote her to full AS...
As entertaining and thoughtful as always. 🎉
Hello. New subscriber here. Good video. You are going to love the later half of the books.
You can't get a good story about heroes and villains when people who don't know right from wrong are writing the show.
This is Truth.
Always your breakdowns of the show!
😊
Can we talk about the ridiculousness of the hidden passage a bit more. I went back and re-watched the scene multiple times. First off, apparently the White Tower has meaningless and extremely tiny alcoves in it. Something that strikes me as odd in this design, is that the alcove is at the end of a hallway, that doesn't have any doors or additional passageways adjacent to the alcove. I could understand placing something like this at an intersection of perpendicular corridors, but simply having a hallway leading to such a tiny area, that just doesn't make sense. Next, when Nynaeve enters the alcove, she is presented with what appears to be two windows. We clearly see light streaming through them, especially since there aren't any candles or other light sources in the alcove. Additionally when Nynaeve opens the passageway, we have light spilling through the doorway, again with no other light sources but the windows, or window in this case now. And here's where it becomes impossible for that to be the case. The hidden doorway was the left window frame, yet the passageway behind it loops to the right, meaning the it crosses behind what was the right window in the alcove. So where is the light coming from? And considering how the novices are tasked with cleaning the Tower, are we to presume that no other novice has found this hidden passage? I mean all Nynaeve does is push on the window and the door opens. My first take on this was that Liandrin wanted Nynaeve to follow her, so she leaves the doorway unlocked, but based on her reaction to Nynaeve following her and events that happen in later episodes, I have since discredited that notion.
But speaking of Liandrin, she is a full Aes Sedai, able to freely enter and exit the Tower as she pleases. There isn't really any reason for her to sneak out of the Tower using a secret passageway. She could have left through the main entryway, its not like any guard is going to question where she's going, then lose herself in the crowd. Which brings me back to Nynaeve. Now in the books, novices are forbidden from leaving the Tower, while Accepted can enter the city proper. When Nynaeve exits the secret passage, based on the lighting, its a bit hard to tell what time of the day it is. In one cut it looks like the sun might be close to setting, but in another I would swear it looked more like midday. Yet when she finally catches up to Liandrin, it is definitely night time. However in all that time that she was outside the Tower, at no point does she accidentally encounter a random Aes Sedai (we are in Tar Valon, home of the Aes Sedai) or a Tower guard who would have instantly recognized her as a novice by her attire. That just feels a bit like lazy writing to me.
As for ridiculousness of the hidden passage we are talking about people who doesn't understand shit in architecture and design. Remember how tiny was the great hall and how huge Tower appears from outside? They can't even draw things to scale, and you're asking them to came up with well thought out interior design.
@TheNightrider88 Not so much asking that they have an intelligent design for the Tower, more just pointing out something that stuck out to me. But what can I say, I'm an engineer. Shit like that bugs me.
42:08 Hard to argue with that XD
YOU would have cut the scene with Alanna and her warders meeting Sheriam and deciding to go to Moiraine, because YOU have not been dating the actor who plays the warder Maksim, Taylor Napier, for ten years. But Rafe Judkins has.
True. 😊
Guessing someone already said this, but Rand doesn't learn channelling from Logain... Rand doesn't even meet Logain until much later in the books.
And stupid people like me can't really understand why would he learn channeling at this point at all. Even if he didn't know that taint-induced madness is extremely random, most obvious course would be just never ever ever touch the Source. So I guess he decided to learn because he is... power hungry?
11:20
The reason for Rand to be learning from someone in a mental asylum, is because the writers dropped the ball in the first season and never showed Lan teaching the boys how to fight, so now they are trying to justify Rand knowing it later...I have no idea why they chose a mental asylum tho, that's just nonsense.
Except.... Rand doesn't swordfight later in this season. He just walks up and stabs Ishy
44:57 this really is the perfect example of why they don't deserve more episodes. They turn a single comment into the entire character arc between multiple episodes.
It's like in season 1 where he kept telling Egwene it was his fault his wife died, but it was the third time he said that before he actually explained what he meant. And they were still interrupted before any character development happened. Then this season continues to have brief call back moments without any character development in relation to Laila.
Or "who is the Dragon Reborn" that required not having any meaningful character development for the entire first season to have a contrived mystery they broke lore and world building consistency to have make the slightest bit of sense.
Agree with all of this. I cant wait to talk about how worthless the Laila drama was. I plan to compare Perrin and Mat to Merry and Pippin. They did very little in the first book and first film. But they GREW into great characters for whom we got to see more development. Mat and Perrin legitimately had major things to do in the first book. Not a ton... but a good amount of really interesting stuff. But the showrunners felt it wasn't enough drama. 🤪
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS yeah, for some reason they seem to think childish drama is the deepest any character can go. And they took a trope from the books (people don't always communicate great and it creates problems) and blew it up to 1000x. Now characters don't communicate at all. There's rarely a moment in season 1 where a character would actually say (or even do) what they say based on their implied motivation and characterization. When they do it works really well, but it only served to highlight how nonsensical the rest of the season was. In season 2 it seems like they finally started doing it with some of the main characters (and most of the side characters) - but they decided to focus on the side characters over the MCs.
Elayne, Liandrin, Ishy, *and* Lanfear all had more screen time than Mat until the finale. Add Anvaere and Verin to that list if you go by lines. Mat was pointless drama that made no sense, and that's about it.
Perrin basically walked back and forth until the end of the season and watched other people have agency aside from two brief moments (not following Elyas, and releasing Aviendha - neither of whom had any bearing on the finale).
Even Rand (who was almost exclusively in scenes with Lanfear or Moiraine throughout the season) had so few lines compared to them until toward the end that his lack of agency was painfully obvious by those statistics alone.
The fact that our heroes were effectively forced into driving the action in the finale but weren't given anything interesting to do that they had much agency in felt like a train that jumped the tracks just before arriving at the station. The only character who brought it all together was Egwene... And ironically without the other characters (and if she had a sword) she could have done *everything* all by herself for the finale. I mean, she got out of the collar by herself, she defended against Ishy effectively by herself, and Rand slowly walked up to Ishy to stab him. Without Mat there Rand wouldn't have needed to be Healed either - everyone else could have simply cowered behind the OP Egwene and she could have saved them all. And that's ironic since they seem to be implying that the major theme is that everyone needs to work together (as the antithesis of the Forsaken/shadow) to succeed.
The wonderful thing in the books is that Rand never gives in to Selene. It's so disappointing to see him shagging her in the show. The whole point was that no matter how hard she tried, he didn't take the bait. Very important to his character and arc development. The casting is all wrong too. No offense to the actress, but in the books she is the personification of perfect female beauty. Even Loial makes this observation. The actress is too old for the part and though attractive, certainly not drop dead gorgeous like she is in the books.
If they had just developed this story line and the Logain storyline the way it happens in the books it would have been a lot more cohesive and interesting. It will matter in the future, so they will either have to fix plot holes or just make up their own story.
Another thing I enjoy in the books is that there is no overt sex. Rand is already having sex in the show before he even leaves the Two Rivers. This completely destroys the scene where he finally does have sex, and even in the books it is implied, but not explicit. It was done wonderfully in the books and it is an important plot line. I won't spoil it for those that haven't read that far.
It's not shielding between an Aes Sedi and Warder. It's called masking and only done so you don't feel each other, emotions etc. And the bond is very intrusive, a severed bond drives them close to madness.
But does masking and severance feel the same?
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS No, masking the bond just dulls the feeling of the other person who you are bonded too, severing drives them close to madness. Moiraine figures out a way to pass the bond through Elanna to Nynaeve though that's frowned apon.
The "I assume it's one of the boys..." quote is from the end of EoTW when Moraine meets with the Amerlyn Seat in Fal Dara. They are just lifting lines from the book and tossing them in willy nilly now.
Amy Stewart has a theory that they took stuff from the books, threw them in a blender, and then pulled suff out at random while writing.
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS ha! That definitely seems like a more favorable option than "this was a deliberate decision and we think this is a good story"
The without/with shirt guy was in the last kingdom, he had a lot of battles there so he may learned a thing or two haha
I'd recommend reading the prequel "new spring" after you finish the dragon reborn. It explains the Lan and moirainne back story. (and siuan) if I'd ever recommended the books to people I think I'd tell them to read new spring first as I struggled with the prologue in the eye of the world.... It made no sense until I re read it after getting to about book 8.
I recall that moirainne can mask the bond if Lan is out banging.
It does also explain Lans older lady who de-flowered him.
Fantastic decolletage by the way.
I always prefer to read things in order of publication, but I keep getting comments like this. I might have to break my preference and give it a try.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I think it was released as a short story way before it came out as a book. I remember spotting the brand new hardback back in the early 2000's "blood and bloody ashes" at the local bookshop and phoning my friend in excitement... (after I'd bought it) He'd said he'd read it on the interweb years before...
@@damianhill6704 It came out in a short-story collection that really just covers the the basics. If you want more on how the Tower works, it has good stuff for that. It will prove that Moiraine is straight because that girl thirsts after every cute guy that shows up on the pages.
01:18:15 if this goes on long enough, you'll get your wish and wish you didn't 🤣
Great review though!
Haha. I wouldn't put anything past these show writers.
I'm assuming they had to tell us Fain killed the fade, since he literally does nothing throughout the whole season. I think he did more in S1
😂 you're right. Lol.
I don’t know why Fain would kill the fade. It was mordeth taking over fain that killed the fade in the books, but mordeth doesn’t exist so why include it?
@@D3G4355they do that a lot throughout the season, include scenes from the book without any of the context.
Vent women, vent. You are one of the best reviewers; you are so damn intelligent and clever I love it.
Lol. I dont know about that. But thank you.
Thanks!
🍻 Wow! Thank You!
I hope I can keep making videos you enjoy.
Perrin is so butthurt about Fain "betraying" the Two Rivers after they were so kind to him (only words spoken on screen to him in Emond's Field - "You're a right bastard, Padan Fain!"), that he just assumes Fain will betray anyone, even his Fade guards.
And for the record, recall in the books, how psychotically desperate the wolves were to kill the Shadowpawn and Fain. Here, they just watched him wipe out a village without doing anything.
They keep building up characters to have important upcoming encounters.... and then they never meet. Does Perrin ever en outer Padan Fain in season 2?
Lol. Oh yeah. That's a good point about the wolves just standing by. Ugh.
I feel like In seasons 1 and 2, every character had their "moment" at least once. One good scene, one moment to shine. Some of them got many. All except Rand. You know, the main protagonist. You can say he had moments in s1e7, but that was just a reveal about being the dragon. He didn't actually do anything then besides looking troubled and some target practice
Hahha! Avk! It's so freaking sad. 😫
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I got so mad I'm rewriting episode 8 just to put one there
That's fantastic! You should upload it to UA-cam
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS damn, now I have to do it
Setting aside the fact of Rand actually shacking up with Selene, cutting out Rand's role the whole hunt for the Horn, you're absolutely right that it wasn't believable that Rand and Selene's relationship offscreen was a big mistake.
This why I don't get the praise the show is getting from some corners of UA-cam. The production value is obviously better. but the writing is just as bad as S1.
Love your channel!
Yay! Thank you 😊
My condolences that you've seen all of season 2.
much later in the books logain turns out to be one of few men who just never goes insane, and Rand talks to him trying to figure out how. Maybe they are trying to bring that in much earlier in the story.
Perhaps... except that Rand never saw him in a perceivably sane state. I honestly thought he was sane before he was gentled, and now he seems off his rocker. Not sure what the show plans to do with this if he's supposed to be sane by the end.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS that is true, but from what we have seen the show writers haven't been all that great on delivering so I could see them doing this, without understanding how that would show it wouldn't work.
@@KadarianLord I could see them doing anything, honestly. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to say that Nynaeve is the dragon from another timeline, or something. Lol. I know that sounds insane, but they really aren't following any rules. Not from the book and not from logic, in general.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS which is I feel a problem, I know most books don't move smoothly through adaption, but I must admit that I don't think I am going to be finishing this show.
@@KadarianLord I would not be watching this show if I wasn't doing these reviews. It's not enjoyable at all.
Once again, thanks for the thorough review! I really appreciate all the effort you put into these - and don't feel any need to fake energy when this show wears you out. I still enjoy all of it, and I'm sure plenty of others do as well.
The only question I had is... Why did Elayne not know she was in the novices area if she indeed has been to the Tower a number of times?
Lol. Great point. She's a but ditzy, I guess.
Also, thank you 😊
"Show Rand is not the same as book Rand" with a slight alteration says it all: "Show WoT is not the same as book WoT."
(It sort of feels like show WoT is to book WoT as Spaceballs is to Star Wars, thought it's more sad than funny.)
Dark Helmet was a lot more likable and charismatic than show!rand...
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees! Highlight of the week has arrived.
Gah! Keep your expectations low for this one. 😬 I promise to try to improve for the next, though.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Nonsense! Your content is fantastic.
@@wordsandlettersseconded
@@bidossessiwould third this but Alanna… 😂. Amber is awesome.
regarding the Fade nailed to the door by Fain, in the books it is foreshadowed by the Trollocs escaping with the horn changing direction all the time as the Fades and Fain, who had been steadily regaining his autonomy due to the taint from Shadar Logoth, struggled for control. They kind of zigzag for days until Fain finally becomes strong enough to be fully in charge. I haven't seen the show so I don't know whether there is any such struggle.
Fain was never at Shadar Logoth and is still a loyal servant of the dark one in the show. He'd have no reason to kill a fade, and he doesn't have any power that would allow him to do so.