James O'Brien explores the 'damage' caused to Labour by their Gaza stance | LBC
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2024
- Despite Labour's landslide victory in the election, Keir Starmer's Gaza stance appears to have lost Labour some support. James O'Brien discusses why this is the case and considers how much of an impact the Prime Minister's comments on LBC last October have really made.
Speaking to Nick Ferrari at the Labour Party Conference last year, Starmer said: “Hamas’ actions are terrorism and Israel has the right to defend herself.
“Israel has the right to do everything it can to get those hostages back safe and sound. Hamas bears responsibility,” he added.
“Israel has the right” to withhold power and water from Palestinian civilians. Obviously, everything should be done within international law."
However, Starmer has since clarified that he is in favour of a ceasefire in Gaza and stressed the importance of 'retaining a relationship' with Israel.
In light of this, James isn't sure what more the Prime Minister can do to win back support and, therefore, wonders how much of a problem it could be for his government moving forwards.
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#jamesobrien #keirstarmer #LBC #Israel #gaza
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Sad times when not wanting children to be killed lables you as pro hamas.
Thats the darkness within type of people
They are attempting to brainwash that's why
You are right, sadly. And not just in UK, but in my birth country, Hungary.
people have a problem mostly wih violent pro palestine protests that happen everywhere, and only from that do people form their opinion on the situation, when you see a pro israel protest it is 500x more peaceful.
@@drakevevo3710 Yeah because there is only 12 pro Israelis protesting.
Israel shot a missile into a school yard yesterday. It was a place Palestinians were told to evacuate too, by the IDF, because it was a safe zone. They were playing football in the schoolyard when the missile hit. I'll say it again, *they were playing football in the school yard.*
Does any of that sound like Self defense to you??
We don't know if this actually happens, were you there?.
@@PLl-jr8xithere are videos and independent news organizations verifying it, not every piece of evidence you don’t like is khamas or a lie…
@@PLl-jr8xi If he was there they'd have to scrape whats left of him off the playground you wally, of course he wasnt there
@@PLl-jr8xiBy that logic do you believe anything?
@PLl-jr8xi this is a Bot account controlled by the Izreali Government who go onto social media platforms to push izreal propaganda and lies
🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥Does anyone else find it interesting that you cannot spell Israel without the letters L-I-A-R-S 🤔 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Jon Ashcroft being confronted in the street about his Gaza position isn't bullying. MP's hide from the public especially when they are on the wrong side of public opinion. It is so ungracious what he has been saying about the person who beat him and a slap for voters who voted for someone else
remarkably, the tories it seems are far more gracious in defeat than labour are.
@@disasterarea9341Hear, hear!
@C1aydOn82. What exactly is the “ wrong side of public opinion “ ? Members of the public hold a variety of opinions. How could you fail to notice ?
James, if Starmer is genuine in his call for a ceasefire and a two-state solution, he should immediately and unconditionally recognise the state of Palestine. Otherwise, anything he says is vapid.
We could also stop our arms sales and military help...but I guess that's not going to happen
🎯
Of course Starmer's words are vapid. However, he is probably glad to get rid of Ashworth. Ashworth is as treacherous as is Starmer and more astute. Starmer will brook no competitors and, the fruit of treachery is the recognition of your co conspirators. Both feigned support for Corbyn
@habjml. “Immediately and unconditionally” are not wise words in practical government”. They are just, a shout from the excited crowds ( same as “Off with his head!”). Remember that excitement is the daily bread of the media. But in democracies, Statesmanship is a slow and careful business
Very much like playing poker - you don’t show your hand all the time. The older democracies know this.
@@belindamay8063 ok, so we let the government play their game of poker. Please let me know when their game is scheduled to finish, and I'll relay the programme to the Palestinians who are being slaughtered right now for simply existing in their own land. Is this what is meant by "to each his own"? Ridiculous. Three allies (Spain, Norway and Ireland) have already recognised the state of Palestine unconditionally and with immediate effect. There are no excuses. But no, please continue with the game of poker, the Palestinians wair, hanging on to dear life in the meanwhile.
I didn't vote Labour for the first time ever because of this and I even voted for Tony Blair. When Starmer, Trump, Biden, Netanyahu are all in agreement about foreign policy, something has gone badly wrong in the Labour party.
@paulbo. You don’t know your History. In 1940, when Germany threatened and attacked our country Britain entered into a firm alliance with Communist Russia, and the USA. The people , Left and Right, were fully behind this. At that moment, we were facing a powerful enemy that threatened all of us. When the crisis ended,in 1945 the alliance broke up because it wasn’t needed anymore. We went back to our pre-war divisions.
@@belindamay8063 I did know that but I have absolutely no idea what point you think your making
@@paulbo9033 It’s called Diplomacy. A general - and inescapable rule in the practical conduct of public affairs. It is also an art - a way of avoiding further trouble. And making the best deal for everyone involved in change. Queen Elizabeth the First was a ( very quiet)master of diplomacy. That is how she kept us at peace in a turbulent world. Nothing is achieved by angry shouting and hurling insults - however “witty” they may claim to be.
@@belindamay8063 ah yes, the diplomacy of criticising every country except a genocidal Israel 🤔
What Labour can do: a) Recognise the state of Palestine, and b) stop the sale of arms to Israel.
Also stop our armed forces helping Israel
Recognising Palestinian statehood is already a Labour policy 👍
They can't recognise something that doesn't exist. If you want to sell arms, it's alot easier to sell them when people want them . Divvy
@@joefortey4 How about they do it then? Like 1 hour after getting the most votes in the French parliament, Melenchon called for a recognition of a Palestinian state.
@@Costgobbo does it really matter if they do it now or in a month? There are other more pressing concerns in this country other than arguing over words about a conflict we have very little control over 5000 miles away.
Nick Ferrari - incontrovertibly describes war crimes
Sr Kier, former lawyer and head of the crown prosecution service - "I think Israel does have that right."
What a joke
Does that come within 'International Law'...? If it doesn't then it's not supported by Starmer as he clearly stated that all of Israel's activities must come within 'International law'. I see that you've chosen to conveniently ignore this statement...pathetic...
@@stevebrooks9119 Cutting off civilian access to water and utilities is against international law, yes. Besieging territory without a UN recognized resolution for military intervention is also against international law, so again yes.
@@stevebrooks9119 In case I didn't make it clear; that means that either Starmer's concern for the legality of Israel's actions is a deception, or that his claim that Israel has the right to commit the described actions is a deception.
Either way Starmer "I'm playing both sides so I always come out on top" blatantly lied
@@stevebrooks9119 Not pathetic at all - "Israel does have that right" By definition shutting off food water and electricity is collective punishment - a war crime. and therefore can't fall within international law. Either Kid Starver was being ignorant about international law or dissembling, what would you expect people to believe bearing in mind he is an ex-human rights lawyer.
.. .human rights lawyer...
No james, people used their vote to express their discontent with how labour handled the issue. They weren’t being peddled a falsehood
Most Mps in parliament are "friends of Israel," and many accept donations from Israel.
Check for yourself.
Ashworth just doesn't get it does he. He's not showing any care towards the people of Palestine. The dishonesty is shocking.
This is disgusting apologia for Labour and in particular Kier Starmer's positions throughout this genocidal war being waged against the Palestinians. Labour's position from the start should have been ceasefire, stop arms sales and security cooperation with Israel, including banning the use of UK military bases in aiding the US's support of Israel, sanctions on Israeli leaders as a bare minimum and finally the recognition of a Palestinian state without any preconditions.
@@davidlittler8512 those profiting from the sale of arms have too much influence on politics for any of that to happen.
@davidlittler. Is this officially a “genocidal war”? Who decrees these things ? Be careful with terms that fan the flames.
Can you believe he was a human rights lawyer??
Sad, sickening and absurd.
That it turns out (Murdoch helped him keep it from us for as long as possible) that he is married to a zionist with friends and relatives living in kibbutz and illegal settlements built on land stolen from the Palestinians, speaks volumes.
He won't get his bagel buttered at night or in the morning if he condemned Apartheid Israel, called for a ceasefire fire, recognised the State of Palestine, and sanctioned Apart, banned arm shipments, arrested and detained zionists returning from Apartheid Israel...etc, etc.
HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER - DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN HE BELIEVES IN IT HUMAN RIGHTS - IT'S JUST A WAY OF MAKING MONEY - FROM MORAL PLATFORM TO MAKE US THINK HE BELIEVES IN HUMAN RIGHTS - ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN POSITION-!!!
What the British government can do is to issue an immediate ban on arm sales to Israel, and a ban on Britain facilitating arms sales to Israel in any way - as it is currently doing through allowing its airbase in Cyprus to be used as a staging post for the transfer for arms from the US to Israel.
Too much money being made mate
They could (and should). That said, it might make us feel better about our role in everything but I doubt it'd influence Israel one iota. Now, if the US were to do that then that'd be a totally different thing. The guy to watch in everything is Blinken.
British sales to Israel since 2008 - Around half a billion.
American sales to Israel in the last year - £23 billion.
I think we actually sell more to the Saudis these days. (And there's some awkwardness there too given their political differences.)
@@JamesMc2051 well, by doing it, the UK would pressure the US, by making them more isolated in the matter.
It could, also, pressure Germany.
Having the UK and Germany as puppets repeating US foreign politics is one of the things preventing the US from actually doing anything to solve the issue.
@@aquelegabriel
The allies of the U.K. are the same of the USA and Germany…
I think the U.K. should be more supportive of Israel and its policies in fighting terrorism
@@eddiecalderone first of all, you need some consistency. You can either use periods when writing "UK" and "USA", or not use when writing it. Both are shortening multiple words, so use the same "rule" all the time.
Second, explain to me how dropping 2000 pound bombs in a crowded city, killing old ladies inside a church with precision rifles, starving 2 million people, or any of the thousands of violations of international and humanitarian law could POSSIBLY be considered "fighting terrorists". Because, by your definition, then you would need to explain how terrorism is different from your preferred tactics to fight terrorism.
Would you defend that the UK government used those tactics in London?
Lastly, yes, the UK and the US have the same allies, broadly speaking. Because the UK has no agency, it just repeats the US foreign policy. The UK became, ironically, a colonial territory of the US.
I want him to recognise the state of Palestine.
He's said he wants a 2 state solution
We all do
There is no Palestine. You can't just make up a country
@@polarisnorth4875 Impossible, are they going to remove the hundreds of illegal settlements from the west bank? Only a 1 state solution with equal rights is possible
Labour will recognise palestine
Our policy should be fairly simple: No weapon sales to Israel; A commitment to uphold international law; Commitment to the two-state solution; Sanctions against Israel as a state, and the settler and militia groups, as well as individual politicians; Condemnation of Israel for its violations of international humanitarian law.
If Israel at some point makes a real effort to become a civilised country we can re-appraise our attitude towards it. But not before that. The subjugation of the Palestinian people, the land thefts, the de facto apartheid, the routine collective punishment, the extrajudicial killings, the illegal detentions, the almost endless list of violations of international law. We can no longer shrug these off because we've decided that it's immune from criticism.
The problem is that we prove our enemies right when they accuse us of hypocrisy, of weaponising international law against our opponents and refusing to apply it to our allies or to ourselves. And we are living in a world where power is moving away from us, from that post-war settlement. We should be fighting harder than ever for a rules-based order, because for all its faults and the need for reforms, we are going to need it.
But in the meantime, perhaps we could behave with just enough basic morality that we can look ourselves in the mirror.
To start with it should be a commitment to admission of the injustice the British had brought into Palestinians since 1917 until today. Then full accountability on behalf of Britian (both government and people) towards that injustice.
It took about 5k deaths, the plurality of those women and children, for James to speak against the massacre. Yo to that point he found Isreals actions justified.
And he's still keen to "both sides" it way too much.
0:55 Sometimes the unfounded accusations of antisemitism gets you kicked out of the labour party.
Most of the time they are not unfounded though. What you people consider to not be antisemitism is well understood by people who are not rabid pro-Palestine cranks to be blatant antisemitism.
@@ineedmoreflavour1955but most of the time they are unfounded
@@ineedmoreflavour1955nonsense. As documented in the documentary by Israeli filmmaker Yoav Shamir “defamation”, the label of antisemite can and will be used by Israel and Israel defenders entirely arbitrarily for political gain. Watch the film on yt and tell us what u think
Oh the irony of that response lol
@@Loner-Wolf "Most of the time"
Nobody can defend Israel's actions anymore.
You would think that, but I am sure Starmer can
Well when you've been bullied, persecuted and murdered since the 7th century....it can get a bit boring.
There are those of us who don't, but aren't obsessed over Palestine like others are. Which is the problem. So much going wrong in the world and it's all you lot bang on about. Where's the same concern and outrage over Ukraine and the children who were bombed the other day? Crickets. Because it's not Gaza. Which is the problem.
Starmer criticised the Ukraine bombings.
Not so much the Gaza ones.
@@chriswhite82 I think we talk less about the children in Ukraine because only Russian trolls are disputing the fact that Russia has repeatedly targeted civilians infrastructure from the beginning and sometimes done attacks that had no purpose other than killing civilians. This is mostly accepted as truth both on the left and on the right, only the most rabid part of the far right is denying this.
For Gaza however, lots of politicians and people are still denying the level of horror used by the Israeli government so talking about it is more required.
James’ ridiculous soft spot for Starmer is on full display yet again. Whether you have power or not, you can at least take a position of principle. But shock, the leader of the opposition does have power..
@GRIMVEL. Starmer has the wisdom of an advocate. He will be familiar with angry clients who challenge his handling of a case. ‘Why didn’t you tell the jury this - or that ? “ What they don’t know is that the lawyer has expert knowledge of juries of every kind. He plays a long game and gets results. To their utter surprise.
Be honest, its 186,000 are killed in Gaza by Israel
A conservative estimate published in the Lancet.
Yep
@@redflag4781 A predictable mathematical model, based on previous conflicts. Not by the Lancet, but in a letter published in the Lancet. The truth is still unknown.
@@gonzo1354
You are correct. I will amend.
Who cares
Regardless of where you stand on this i saw one of these alleged incidents that Jonathan ashworth claims was bullying, because he uploaded it and it simply wasnt bullying . It was a man trying to question him on gaza and mr ashworth did what labour mps consistently have done.....run away from the issue because they know that in the early days they let this esculate.
He hijacked the SNP parliamentary day to water down the motion that was to be presented.
He obviously was not impotent in the shadow role. You can't overlook that as Starmer being unable to affect the situation as he clearly did.
Just as a small point in a video I otherwise agree with:
'Women and Children' I think is drastically unfair to the thousands of equally innocent men (and other genders technically) who've also been frankly murdered.
saying they were "murdered" is unfair. they were slaughtered. systematically. and their figures are never brought up because they're considered hamas fighters, in the same way that make children are considered "future terrorists" by the Israeli government.
@@Ajalemes otherwise what you mean is "murdered".
It's because you can still call a 16 year old innocent man a "combatant" who might have been holding a gun ,and muddy the waters, they did it a lot during the troubles. Israel does a step ahead and just calls any "military aged male" a combatant. So that's why there's usually a focus on the "women and children" number
@@geedee1264Exactly. It's unfair but it's effective. They don't have the luxury of caring about gender politics right now. This way of framing it also helps protect the men, at least in the short term.
Yes agree! All should be recognised
0:48 "the accusations of anti-Semitism are designed to stop us talking about it and the accusations of having the blood of Palestinian children on our hands are not". Pointed contrast, all else aside.
@Kryojenix. How much History do you know.? I remember seeing a film in the 1950s. Kirk Douglas played a real-life American officer, tasked with organising protection squads for Israeli school-buses that were being shot up and bombed by Palestinian guerillas. Children were being massacred. The foreign intervention caused controversy at the time.
@@belindamay8063 after you took over their land - displaced 500000 humans, you're surprised they tried to get them to leave? How much history do you know?
They are just copying the winners I suppose: eff-all sense of decency and embrace the hypocrisy, just like the grown-ups in the Labour party.
Wot ! No replies about the film.! I think the book is still available ?
"Deeply unfortunate" is a pathetic way to describe Starmer saying Israel has the right to cut off water and electricity.
Starmer knew exactly what he was saying and said what he meant. That he tried a u-turn reflects the sentiment his comments received, not him realising he was wrong or had misspoken.
You talk about the footballification of politics but you're here giving Starmer grace that you'd never have given a Tory leader. You do it whenever Starmer lies.
Jonathan Ashworth has no shame, even now.
He's a snake 🐍
He lost his seat now so he’s irrelevant
@@Connorpunk2024 But he's back in another major role for Labour so he's in a more influential role now.than he was as an MP...Sorry to disappoint you...😂
@@stevebrooks9119of course, that what such snakes do, they don't listen to the electorate...
I would like british policy on Gaza to be more like the Irish, Spanish, french and Norwegian than it is the Americans.
Never going to happen as Britain caused the situation in the first place with Balfour. And French position is just like America’s. Spain, Ireland and Norway slightly better in that regard.
@@aziza000 macron took the position that too many were being killed by Israel months ago and afaiu France voted progressively on UN resolutions whereas UK voted against or abstained. It’s not a radical position but shows what a critical friend should do (if you really want to be friends with Israel) and we are not even doing that. We have been and still are , giving endorsement and lammy with his hand shakes and mild words is doing the same.
In 2018 Israeli soldiers shot over 6,000 Palestinians. In many cases they were shot with illegal expanding ammunition. So, did the present iteration of this problem begin on 7th October 2023 (1,200 casualties) or March/Dec 2018 (6,000 casualties) But you will never have seen this in print media. But the United Nations reports on this atrocity are available for all to check and verify.
Also, why are the 500 Palestinians killed in the West Bank recently never mentioned. There is no conflict in the West Bank just murdered Palestinian farmers who's land is being stolen.
It began in 1945!!!
This issue has been longer than either of those events.... 1948 so many years this has gone on for so to call either party the sole problem is completely wrong.
All that is true is that too many civilians on both sides have been caught in the crossfire which is very sad and a waste of life.
@@1929030
No ! It began in the late 1800s with Theodore Herzle's treatise on zionism. This was the start of forced colonisation of Palestine.
Google it !!!
It began 120 years ago with the publication of Theodore Herzle's treatise on a Z ionist state in Palestine
Words matter. So the first & easiest thing for labour to do is speak with empathy and care when talking about Gaza just like they do when talking about Ukraine.
After words, we need action for CHANGE as they like to say.
1. Reinstate funding for UNRWA
2. Stop arms sale to Israel
3. Support International court
4. Recognise state of Palestine
Simple 🤷🏻♀️
Starmer was asked the SAME question regarding Russia and Putin. His hypocritical answer was COMPLETELY OPPOSITE !! 😢
😂😂😂
Wasnt JoB also claiming 'Israel had a right of defend itself' without any recourse to Int. Law ? He's still using the word "terrorist", which says a lot, given there is no crime of "terrorism" under Int. Law and neither do the UN call hoummous "terrorists".
Anyone who knows the history of the region knows who the real "terrorists" are. JoB has had 9 months to do his research, which I suspect he has done....
How dare you question James? You bigot.
@@bignosecrisuk5860JOB is the ultimate centrist dad. Kier Starmer's words were very clear. Nick Ferrari then asked him to clarify those in the most explicit manner possible, an he doubled down on his pro Netanyahu position.
He then rather than apologising, said that he never said them! "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying ears?"
1. Haifa Massacre 1937 2. Jerusalem Massacre 1937 3. Balad al-Sheikh Massacre 1939 4. Haifa Massacre 1939 5. Haifa Massacre 1947 6. Abbasiya Massacre 1947 7. Al-Khisas Massacre 1947 8. Bab al-Amud Massacre 1947 9. Jerusalem Massacre 1947 10. Sheikh Bureik Massacre 1947 11. Jaffa Massacre 1948 12. Deir Yassin Massacre 1948 13. Tantura Massacre 1948 14. Khan Yunis Massacre 1956 15. Jerusalem Massacre 1967 16. Bahro Al Baquar 1972 17. Sabra and Shatila Massacre 1982 18. Al Aqsa Mosque Massacre 1990 19. lbrahimi Mosque Massacre 1994 20. Jenin Refugee Camp April 2002 21. Gaza Massacre 2008-09 22. Gaza Massacre 2012 23. Gaza Massacre 2014 24. Gaza Massacre 2018-19 25. Gaza Massacre 2021 26. Gaza Massacre 2023 ongoing , They can NOT AND WILL NOT rewrite history, IT DID NOT start on OCT 7TH.
Sadly they have been re-writing history for over a century.
They control the flow of information. If they control the flow of information then they can get the masses to believe anything they want them to.
Surely you can't count pre 1948. Those are abominable acts no doubt. But it's a different franchise
not to be a debbie downer or anything, but shall we play the same game but from the other side?
You forgot ghengis khan
I have campaigned in Yardley, Ladywood, Hall Green and Moseley for independent candidates and have not seen any intimidation or bullying, but these individual MPs have lost supporters in the Muslim community and they cannot accept the losses of their core supporters and they continue to lose
I watched the video of Ashworth walking around canvassing. He was not getting intimidated only getting asked questions
Is he committed to getting rid of Netanyahu who is opposed to a two state solution?
Why did he not allow his mps to vote for a ceasefire
and why did he steal the snp motion in the first place?
He did in February...Keep up...
@@mollycuddle9990 Because it was a political trap to undermine Labour. Labour voted on its amendment which passed successfully...
@@stevebrooks9119 Asking for a ceasefire is part of the diplomacy of war. Not as innocent as it looks.
1,87,000 Palestinians killed, according to Lancet. why dont you talk about that/???!!!!
Not enough if u ask me
@@philbrainy2399 keep showing the world who you are
@@IcarianX want a fight?
@@philbrainy2399 sure, just leave your name and address and I'll come around to yours, we'll see how hard this sociopath is...
@@IcarianX meet me at Cannon Street station Saturday 3pm
Asking an MP questions about how they voted isn't 'bullying'. Bullying also has a power dynamic, who was more powerful at the time, J Ashworth MP with his entourage or a member of the public asking him some firm but polite questions?
Netanyahu is the man that pretends to negotiating the division of a Pizza while he keeps eating it.
- Avi Shlaim.
“Core cause for Israel to defend itself “ Starmer. This reason has no value whatsoever because Israel has been taking Palestinian land since 1948. What about Palestinians rights? Vile vile vile
I like how they constantly say he didn’t say this when there’s clear footage of him saying it.
In the same sentence he mentions international law being followed, and his reason is that him saying 'that right' is the right to self-defence as they were previously talking about that. It adds up in my opinion, he's a smart man that I think made an incredible gaffe & he will hate the fact that he's opened himself up to this criticism needlessly imo
@@Sam.o.29
So to be clear, israel has the right to cut off water and electricity to Palestinians as long as they follow international law?
Is this your level of comprehension.
Lancet medical journal estimate it’s actually 186,000
Can you do a show on
Where labours cabinets ministers have got their funding from
Hold them to account you mean? That's not the role of client media
Ref his interview. It's sour grapes there was no bullying he was openly being questioned in the street he wouldn't answer. No bullying.
Starmer must condemn Israel's actions (has he done this at all?) and push *firmly* for an immediate end to arms sales to Israel.
He might also assertively access the legal advice received by the Conservative Party in government that the Labour party were asking the Tories to be share when Labour were in opposition, about whether Israel had committed war crimes.
(Though, currently he is actually guilty of anti-Palestinian racism and should be suspended from the Labour party).
He doesn't know that starving millions isn't acceptable... 😅
Tell that to the Tories!
@@johnrussell3961 lower taxes will help
I couldnt vote for Starmer on the back of his Gaza statements and all the people he kicked out under the guise of anti semitism.
@a British Government decides how our money is spent. It can decide to end the scandal of people dying in hospital carparks, our children deprived of food and gangs running our streets. Gaza is a different matter. We , the voters, cannot decide this. Why waste your vote?
go over and help.
@@belindamay8063we should be able to decide it. Sounds like you're excuse making for war crimes supporting Starmer
why would you vote at all, its all fake.
@@keithparker1346We should be able to decide what happens in another sovereign nation?
Are you mental?
Don't let the brexiteers hear you?
Just imagine if he said he supported Palastinians. The press needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
Of course because Palestinians are not our friends, to the contrary Hamas are the enemy
Intimidation is apparently going out on the road and questioning your MP on why he did what he did? Victim mentality at best.
Sometimes it what you say, and sometimes it's how you say it.
Questioning or confronting?
@@PaulStargasm surely you’re allowed to question or confront a mp, as long as threatening statements aren’t made. I think we’ve forgotten that MP’s are voted by the electorate. They work for us and not their own financial or career gain. Maybe if we remind them of this they might actually work for the people again.
James you miss the point. Labours policy on recognising a Palistinian state is contingent upon Israel's agreement. An agreement they have refused for 76 years and will always do so. In other words a nothing policy. 145 countries a majority have already done so. Meanwhile in 2024 a record amount of land in West Bank in 30 years has been turned over to settlers.
If Israel don't recognise it then it wouldn't make a difference anyway? That's the situation you have now!
You need to get them to move to accepting this rather than going around them as it won't fix anything, a ceasefire was already called alongside this.
@@hicks0792145 Countries say you are wrong.
@@offroadoffshore153 has it made a difference? No, sadly not.
@@hicks0792Israel don't rule the world
@@hicks0792 The days of their agreement are gone.
A former Labour MP saying someone should be held down and made to give straight answers to questions...the mind boggles 🤣🤣🤣
I would also say if there is nothing you can do for the Palestinians your view is meaningless and doesn't count for anything Remember Jon Ashcroft didn't vote in the first ceasefire vote in parliament while saying he supported Israel. It isn't wrong to say if you support Israel then you are contributing to the issue so yes you have blood on your hands
Starmer's support of a ceasefire is heavily qualified. Why didn't James point that out.
Ashworth crying is glorious..hes done enough bullying of his own
Most pleased he's been deposed, if only Leanne could have taken down Streeting, it'd have been like Christmas Day IMO. Two foul individuals who don't represent a Labour Party I can willingly vote for.
@@Midland_Wolf_71Leanne would have been one thing but I really wanted Faiza Shaheen to win in Chingford. that was the most disgusting move from labour this election (bar parachuting Luke Akehurst in in Durham)
@@Ajalemes Yup, Faiza too, the way they treated her was disgraceful. Another young lady who comes across as REAL, decent and capable.
@@Midland_Wolf_71 Ashworth was a well-chosen guest. He did everything expected of him. The harvest was terrific.
I should add that when you’re selling by volume, quality doesn’t matter.
But I thought the adults were back in charge 😂
ashworth lost his seat because he couldn't do what his constituents wanted him to and that was to condemn Netanyahu
Now that Labour are in power they can make a difference if they want to.
Also, your centrist dad poopooing anyone with an actual opinion is hilarious, no it isnt self righteous, its called morality, if your morals dont align thats fine, but people have strong stances, this is simply a coping mechanism because these people saw through it and you only came to a realisation of the barbarity of it at a later date when so much blood was shed. Also calling them simply pro palestinian candidates is abysmal, they also ran on a leftist ticket so they aligned more with the people voted for them. Simply areas where labour couldnt supress peoples desire to vote and those people a tually elected someone that represents them.
He say they could do nothing but the anger at these people is from when the ceasefire vote happened and voted against it
Did I just hear James O'Brien equate people who accused Jonathan Ashcroft of having blood on his hands with people who said 'there's no such thing as an innocent Palestinian?'
They're all equally unhinged.
Yeah. Both groups are either side of the problem
Equally incorrect opinions
So saying a donor and representative holds responsibility is the same as saying, for example, "all taigs are targets??" Equally incorrect? ? 😂😂 Now that is some juicy centrism right there
@@geedee1264 No Labour MP is responsible for what is happening in Gaza.
Oh come on O'Brien the snivelling Ashworth could spoken out but he followed his cowardly leaders line of being scared to be called ant-semitic, if you cannot carry out action to change anything then speak out against it thus the deafening silence from all the political parties
Need to stop funding all these wars
Starmer was funded in his leadership campaign by Israel. Therefore he needs to feed back to his handler that they have miscalculated. I don't understand why this is hard.
Starmer lost the moral high ground. Justifying his lack of leadership by blindly following our vassal state position.
Sanctions! Sanctions! Sanctions!
Agree to immediate ceasefire And withdraw from all settlements on the West bank. Or immediately cease weapon sales, even if it is just point five percent. period
Definitely sounds like sour grapes to me Jonathan Ashworth. Couldn't stand his weasely words when he was in opposition and sad we still have to listen to his views now he's been ousted.
James, The Lancet reported that the number killed is likely to exceed 186000 by Oct 2024
It shouldbe to stoparms to israel and recognise palestine as a country
The culture secretary lost to the green candidate and Johnny crybaby was quick to distance himself from her.
Labour policy should be to call out violations to human rights and international law. Simple as that. Israel has the RIGHT to defend itself - within limitations.
Imagine this very thing. A victim of years of bullying, mental and physical torture - one day fighting back. We will ALL say .. "this is RIGHT and this is JUST!"
If that victim imprisons the former perpetrator, tortures him and torments him ... we might start to doubt. But some will still say "this is JUSTICE!"
If that victim keeps the former perpetrator locked away and keeps tormenting him for years, keeping him alive just to cause more pain - in a sadistic manner ... do we still say "this is right!" ? ..
Justice is nuanced. An eye for an eye is not justice - it is payback. Defending oneself is a RIGHT ... but not a "get out of jail" card for everything. Also - if Israel was SMART .. they would ask themselves "Hamas MUST have anticipated our response ... why is that?! ... why are we playing right into their cards?"
edit: and here is a response Hamas would most certainly HATED ...
... if Israel, because of the events of octobre last year .. had initiated talks about a souvereign 2 state solution. Because THAT would have been the utmost END of Hamas as a ruling body in the Gaza region.
Oh the Israelis know what they are doing, they use Hamas as an excuse for things they want to do anyway.
If the UK is unable to influence Israel and Netanyahu then wow, it standing in the world is truly diminished
It's a very long time since the UK had that sort of power. Brexit made even the "soft" power we had virtually nil
UK Gov should announce
1. Immediate recognition of a Palestinian state.
2. The Ending of the legal games at the ICC, (UK gov is claiming that ICC does not have Juristiction in a legal intervention)
3. Ban the sale of arms to Israel and the facilitation of such sales and supply
4. The recogniton that under international law, those subject to illegal occupation (Palestinians) by a foreign power (Israel) have the right to use all means within international law to fight for their liberation including the use of force and armed resistance.
Did Ashworth provide any evidence of what he was alleging? I saw the video of him allegedly being bullied, chased and filmed in the street and he's making that one up. Not just the Tories gaslighting then...
What else can Kier Starmer's Labour do? They could withdraw or at least reduce the sales of arms to Israel, that would put pressure on the country to agree to the ceasefire.
Meh, as long as the US supplies them, Britain isn't going to makea dent.
What Labour didn't say and still haven't is that the UK should stop sending arms to Israel. This the Labour Government can now do,
Ah James 😢 I'm so glad you're on the right side of history on this one - but please stop defending Starmer
Supporting the two state solution is pointless without recognition of the state of palestine. Because Israel will never voluntarily do the same.
Keir Starmer put land and country above citizens. Until he apologises for doing that, people will understandably not forgive him. And whilst he is the leader of the party, they will continue to haemorrhage votes to other candidates
2 things I would like to see happen:
- acknowledge that the targeting of schools or hospitals is a war crime and the action of terror groups, not legitimate armies of democratic countries.
- stop all trade and intelligence sharing with any such body (with the exception of aid and disaster relief)
Keep in mind, there is more than one "country" to which the above can easily apply.
I wanted Labour to act from moral strength in December, not from political expediency in July.
Starmer is stuck in a political mess over Israel/Palestine.
It’s a case of “respecting” Israel’s right to defend itself and the impossible defend cutting off water, power, medicines and food supplies.
When is enough, enough?
We have to ask, why won’t Netanyahu let independent journalists or aid workers report on what is going on in the areas they’ve been attacking.
You can ask the question, why are they still bombing when they could now go in on foot?
Who thinks James roughly knew the backstory and systematic oppression priot to Oct 7, and played it quite well increasing criticism and exposing truth in increments to avoid the lobby coming after him? Don't get me wrong he's probably only touched on 1% of the reality of the Palestinians situation, but that 1% is more than all the others.....stopped listening to Shelaugh long ago but wouldn't be surprised if she's still doing her best to justify IDF behaviour... See, I think Shelaugh and Nick are genuinely naive mixed with unexamined racism they just don't see. Same with Piers Morgan who has been in a "moral quandry" for 6 months about how many children have died......
I've been wondering about it too. If so, he has done an excellent job.
He needs to slowly stop giving Kid Starver (who is married to a Zionist and won't get his bagel buttered at night or in the morning if he just condemns Apartheid Israel) the benefit of the doubt and start turning the screws on him. Questioning continued weapons shipments, lack of support for the ICJ, ICC, UN and UNWRA , and the failure to recognize the state of Palestine would be a start, among a myriad of other things.
And one more thing, Palestine doesn't actually exist it never did .Israel is the Jewish homeland and always will be whether you like it or not
And yes O Brian is antisemitic, like Corbyn and Galloway he won't admit it
I suspect sir Keir would not be ok with Scotland cutting water and gas to England. I suspect he would take urgent steps to prevent this, much like the steps taken against stop oil.
Yes but we're talking about UK politics in which he is a UK politician vs Middle East politics in which he has very little say
@@Jonnyonthespot123then let's not arm and help that country
@@Jonnyonthespot123 If the answer depends on whether or not it hurts you, then there's something wrong with the answer. The UK has tonnes of say. We can tax Israeli goods, or hold up deliveries.
@@Jonnyonthespot123 I think the point is, there´s a very clear right and wrong in this situation
SIR IF there IS Someone WHO does not deserve the letters S.I.R. in front of his name its the puppet in No 10
Labour was going to have massive majority in my area anyway so I voted green. Hopefully next time I'll be voting for Green (or better yet - a socialist Indy) to win.
Sorry James but you're weak on this. As others here have said, stop arming the genocidists and recognise the state of Palestine.
That statement by or failure to answer the question properly by Starmer,cost many MPs like Ashworth their jobs
Not many
@@tobylerone4285 at least, thats 5 too many an countless other majorities including his own have been slashed. Starmers suppose to be an asset not a liability.
@@tobylerone4285their majorities were slashed-look at Streeting’s vote share
He can immediately stop arms sales to Israel.
Reveal the legal documents that Conservatives hid on their complicity .
Stopping arms is literally the bare minimum he can do.
Spouting for 2 state solution is a blatant deflection as Israel doesn't want this..
Water is a human right & kills in 3-4faysc
I'm glad you have finally identified the IDF's role in these atrocities. To date only the goverment has been blamed. Most armed forces are trained in their legal responsibilities, where armed force is concerned. Their commanders should be under the same legal scrutiny as some of their politicians.
Ashworth sounds like a sore loser 😂
I thought he sounded like a Tory when he started accusing the other guy of not doing X Y and Z the party line which I thought was very odd
"Lives are saved by us having dialogue", says the man who asked how much is too much.
Standard response Keir Starmer feigns concern for Palestinians, while totally defending Israel's Warcrimes.
I don´t think Starmer fundamentally gets how people other than him think
James, you absolutely hit the nail on the head (and so eloquently) as you often do, when you point out why it is essential that, even people with seemingly completely incompatible views must commit to and try their best to sit down and hold a proper conversation - the fundamental requirements of which involve both listening and maintaining a standard of respectable behaviour - before either party involved, or anyone who holds any interest in the outcome, can see any glimmer of hope that a solution can be reached. Shouting at one another, or worse still making vitriolic, wholly unsubstantiated and unnecessary accusations against a person with whom you disagree has never, and will never achieve anything productive - unless you simply want to vent your anger and prolong a problem which urgently needs a solution.
As a Labour supporter who held their head in their hands whilst, at the time, in opposition Labour seemed to stumble from one blunder to the next, trying to (a) prevent a return to accusations (however unfounded) that criticising the actions of an Israeli Government is some non-sensical form of anti-semitism, and (b) avoid taking a meaningful stance on what was happening in Gaza in case it might jeopardise their chances of victory. But you’re 100% right - this clearly cost them in terms of both seats lost and contributed to the very poor turn out and overall voting number for Labour (as much as a rejection of and disgust with Tory politics), and now they are no longer ‘impotent’.
Aside from demanding a cease fire and a fair deal in any settlement for the Palestinians, what Labour can now do (which they couldn’t before) is to immediately withhold the sale of any further British supplied weapons to Israel, unless and until Israel demonstrably commit to (a) cooperating fully and transparently in all investigations and action concerning perpetration of war crimes, and (b) they comply with international calls for a ceasefire and demands for the immediate cessation of all military action that is being prosecuted without regard for or complete and unequivocal compliance with international law requiring due regard for the consequences of its actions on the lives of innocent civilians.
My hope is that within Israel itself, the people of Israel, who see the madness of what is being done ‘in their name’, will bring down the Netanyahu Government and those overzealous supporters who have cynically and tragically exploited the horrific, unspeakable crimes of a relatively small number of Hamas terrorists. Using that to jutify the prosecution of military action against the entire people of Palestine in such a way that ‘defence’ ceased to be a remotely appropriate term for the horrendous way they went about it; sadly I feel in many instances, done quite deliberately and very probably to prevent the Palestinians from ever occupying Gaza again, to try to avoid any practical possibility ‘2 state’ solution at all, and to displace and then prevent the return of the Palestinians from land which has deliberately and systematically made uninhabitable.
It's been obscene since The Nakba.
10000 dead innocent civilians was okay, but not 40000? Even though we all know the actual figure is far larger.
yup that number is fine by me. dont start what you cannot finish
@@keirmitchell5560so Oct 7 was completely fine too I guess.
It was obvious within a short period of time that Israel was going to overreact and that the Palestinian population was going to be targeted. I saw 50 years ago how the basically European and American Israeli people looked down on the Palestinian/idigenous population.
it's not 40.000, it is 186.000 deaths....
They must do the sane as Spain and recognise Palestine now. That will encourage other countries to do the same. Please keep campaigning to free palestine.
Extremely important bit. In the US, major news companies have been prohibited by Israel from talking about the IDF's own estimate of 20,000 and at most 30,000 opponents.