Capablanca, Gothic, Seirawan, Carrera & Bird Chess with Knighted Bishop & Rook
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- Опубліковано 11 лис 2015
- Special Bishop/Knight and Knight/Rook pieces -- the key to some of the greatest modern chess variants. The chessmen and rules of play devised by Carrera (1617), Bird (1874), Capablanca (1920s), Trice (Gothic, 2002) and Seirawan (2007)
When 90% of all top games end up in a draw...it is definitely time for a new chess.
I totally agree. I think it's only the reluctance to throw away a lifetime of studying opening positions that keeps the top players embroiled in this thankless pursuit. New Chess! New Chess!
Yes, I agree too. It's essentially the same problem as what you have with noughts and crosses (tic tac toe) but at a much higher level. The better the players are at the game, the greater the chances of a draw. The solution is simply to increase the complexity or sophistication of the game (Gothic chess would be my favourite of the versions reviewed here), while retaining its elegance and simplicity.
Not really, that happens in all competitions with close peak skill sets.
@@vampireducks1622 Excellent comment and just how I feel.
Hey -- I now have Ed Trice's original Gothic Chess sets listed. Find them at this link:
stores.ebay.com/worldchessandfinearts?_dmd=2&_nkw=trice
Here are the listings of those pieces and sets:
stores.ebay.com/World-Chess-and-Fine-Arts?_dmd=2&_nkw=capablanca
Wow! Thank you very much, Rick. I didn’t even know any of these variants existed and now I’m going to have to buy the board and pieces from you so I can give them a try. A toast to new possibilities.
Great to hear from you! Check out some of my other videos, I'm sure you'll find much of interest ancientchess.com/page/videos.htm
...contact me any time. If you are indeed a renaissance gamer we should be in touch!
Great video! Really enjoy your content, just wondering if you could point me in the direction of where to find these wooden arch bishop and chancellor pieces? Many thanks.
House of Staunton sells them
What is the title of the booklet? Because I could not find it in the download section? Please and thank you!
I certainly love the booklet and pieces
+Nitori ShogiPlayer Thanks for the good message. The booklet is a free download in the 'free downloads' section of my website. The pieces are available in my listings. Send questions or comments any time ... AncientChess.com
Was there also a variation (due to Capablanca?) where each colour has two kings?
I like the way the pieces look with the grand chess sets that are sold on that games inventors sight. If you Wikipedia grand chess you can see the chess boards. It’s basically German staughntan nights with a rook or bishop hat.
Did you really use Fortran in '77? My dad used to use that.
I know there are variations with 2 kings ... I'll have to look them up ...
I think Seirawan chess is really cool! I'd love to try it. But also on the other variants, you can easily solve your undefended pawn problem, by assigning a new rule, saying that as long as the knighted bishop is on it original square and hadn't move yet, it can also capture upward like a king would capture by 1 square (or diagonally if the given variant demands it. And only on the square where the undefended pawn is.
Yeah, I'd love to play the Seirawan variant, if only I had a chess buddy to try it with.
Sure, if you're willing to slide the movement rules a little the pawn protection problem is no problem ...but I think most players would feel a tug of un-chesslike manipulation in such a rule ("A special move just to protect a pawn?!".
It reminds me of the early days of castling, when purists insisted that two pieces should not move in one turn -- though they were eventually overruled ... of the en-passant capture that beginners find so hard to comprehend. But all's fair in the world of further chess evolutions!
I agree. what I like about seirawan is that you can butcher your opponent if he/she don't pay attention to his/her king's safety midgame.
Is there a link to the "Knighted Rooks and Bishops" booklet you spoke about? It looks interesting.
Also - are there variants that have 2 of each of these on the board? (That is, 2 Knighted Rooks, and 2 Knighted Bishops per side.) Either by replacing standard pieces or going to a 12 x 8 board?
+Chad W Smith I found it. veryspecial.us/free-downloads/AncientChess.com-KnightedPieces.pdf
It's on ancientchess.com/page/free-downloads.htm It just didn't have the full name "Knighted Rooks and Bishops" typed out on the page - so the search feature on the site (and on Google) didn't find it.
+Chad W Smith Thanks, yes, that's it! Sorry, the whole description didn't fit onto the line and I did want to get Capablanca's name-recognition in there. Do feel free to share that with anyone who's interested
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One question: In case an black knight capture the white rook on h1 and retreats back, then you place a elephant on that square. Are you then allowed to castle kingside with the rook knight piece?
+Boyish94 Thanks for the question. No, my understanding is that you castle with the rook only, not with the elephant. In any case, the elephant would have had to move to that square, not originally placed there, which would not be allowed in normal castling (only unmoved pieces can castle)
great video, I'm not the greatest player, but I love new rules to the same pieces. thanks.
+ATREIDESDUNCAN88 Thanks for the good comment. One thing I like about these variants is that they're very easy to understand -- yet lead to amazing complexities, really fun for players on all levels
prince on horss move same knite -capture same Queen not more than 2 sq. and elephant 1,2 diagonal or 1forwade .
Hey, you forgot about Grand chess 10x10 variant. I definitely prefer your pieces to other sellers. I wish you offered a plastic version that was a little less expensive. It is hard to find and affordable variant that are easy to play with.
Thanks for the message. Yes, I limited this review to the 8 x 10 variants (and one 8 x 8), because that is what I had the board to show. Sorry I can't get cheaper pieces (yet) -- I just haven't found a manufacturer for plastic sets. Send comments any time --
Probably one of the best hard-fought games of the "formative years" was against my frequent tormentor, the talented Bryan Peckjian, who also helped me a great deal in the formalities of applying for the patent. In the year 2000, the "championship" tournament was a 28 round event. This last game between the top 2 would decide who would be crowned the first champion since we were expected to score similarly against the rest of the field. We were both trying to smash the other, as this game shows. It is worth the effort to replay this one:
Bryan Peckjian vs. Ed Trice
Round 20, National Championship
December 13, 2000
This was the critical game of the Championship, which was slated for 28 rounds. Peckjian was half a point behind Trice, and this would be the last time they would face each other in this combined Swiss/Dual round robin.
1. d4 h6 Such a move by Black might seem unusual to a chess player, but it tames the range of the Queenside Bishop in Gothic chess while giving some range to the Archbishop. As will be shown, diagonal pins abound in this game.
2. h3 d5 3 Nc3 g5 4. g4 c6 This is the so-called Volcano Opening, so named due to the pawn structure. The position represents a current theoretical debate: Can Black push pawns onto both h6 and c6? The current thinking is that White may have time to place pawns on his corresponding squares and still find good posts for the Knights, but Black may not have this luxury.
5. f4?! It is premature to open up the f-file. With the g-pawn off of the board, Black usually deploys the Chancellor to g7, castles kingside, then plays ...Rg8, which virtually guarantees uncontested seizure of the g-file.
5…gxf4 6. Bxf4 Cf6! And this is the reason not to open up the f-file. The Chancellor exudes a very strong pin as a Rook is now in this file!
The purpose of ...h6 is to keep the Bishop off of g5, and ...c6 guarantees that the Knight cannot reach d5. This means the Chancellor can be parked on f6 with no chance of being ousted trivially. This makes the pin particularly uncomfortable for White. White unpins at once, but it seems Black remains just one step ahead.
7. Cf3 Aj5 Sending the Archbishop to the perimeter looks unusual, and might appear anti-thematic to knowledgeable chess players. Its purpose is solely to pin the pawn on h3.
8. Ah2?! Bxg4! A subtle point that is easy to miss. If White's Archbishop retakes with 9. Axg4? then Black has 9…Cxg4! and the h-pawn cannot recapture since it remains pinned by the Archbishop on j5.
9. Ce5 White responds to the aggression with a move that threatens the Archbishop on j5. As seen in the Chancellor’s Vortex family of positions, Black has a Bishop that can be revealed after a Chancellor’s move with check. This is a pattern with which all readers should become very familiar.
9….Cxf4+ Black takes the Bishop with the Chancellor, and White will take the Chancellor with the Archbishop.
10. Axf4 Bxe5 11. Axe5
White is making the idle threat of Axg4 to take the Bishop if Black fell asleep. It looks like the Bishop on g4 is finally going to move, when...
11…Qc8
Of course the pin again remains the central factor, since 12. Axg4? would simply lose the Archbishop to Qxg4! with the h-Pawn pinned and unable to recapture. Black is now playing a psychological game by making moves to ‘wear down’ his opponent. White spends a great deal of time before making the next move, which removes the pin against the h3 Pawn.
12. Ng2 Qf5+ 13. Af4 White removed one pin, but Black inflicted another. The Archbishop on f4 cannot recapture onto h3, so Black initiates a combination that definitely has no counterpart in the 8x8 chess world.
13…Bxh3!! 14. ixh3 Axh3 The Rook must drop, since otherwise Ri1 would lose big because the Knight is once again pinned, allowing Black to play ...Qxf4+. The game is functionally over.
15. Qd2 White covers the Archbishop with the Queen and prepares to castle.
15…Axj1 16. 0-0-0 Na6
Black’s last move might look odd at first glance, but it stops Ac7 which would win the Rook on a8. This move was not legal previously, since the Archbishop was pinned by the Queen on f5.
17. Nh4 Qg4?
Often we hear of a ‘momentum shift’ that occurs during the course of play. Such is the case here: Black’s forces that are in play are somewhat scattered, and the last erroneous move will allow White to skewer the Queen and Archbishop. White has consolidated the position by making the King safe whereas Black’s King is still in the dead center of the board.
18. Bi2!
A skewer of the Archbishop and Queen. Black has no choice but to lose the Archbishop for the two minor pieces. In Gothic Chess, we know that this major piece is worth more than the sum of its parts.
18….Axi2 19. Nxi2 Qxi2 20. Ri1
White is definitely gaining ground. Black’s Queen on i2 and Knight on a6 are hardly what one would call a cooperative force. White has all four of his pieces deployed, and Black’s two Rooks are virtually non-existent. Black must retreat the Queen, so White will gain another attacking tempo.
20…Qxj2 21. Rxi7! Nb4?
White has disrupted all chances for Black to castle. Furthermore, the Knight on i8 must remain in place now to prevent the deadly Axh6+. Black has been moving quickly to gain a time advantage over White, but it is still too early to embark on such a mission.
22. Rxi8+?
This is the start of a lengthy combination where White missed an upcoming check by Black’s Queen. Both players engage in quick moves with less than 15 minutes remaining on each clock.
22…Rxi8 23. Axh6+ Ke8 24. Axi8 Qi1+
White picks up the Rook but will drop the Archbishop. Determining who nets outs ahead as you mix combinations of the new Gothic pieces with the contemporary chess pieces is not all too straightforward.
25. Nd1
And now the Queen is revealing its attack on Black’s Knight on b4. This twist makes the tactical evaluation of the entire series of trades a little muddy for the players trying to play against the clock.
25….Nxa2+ 26. Kb1 Qxi8 27. Kxa2 Kd7 28. Ne3 Qe4 29. c4?
The contest has distilled into a chess game now and it was all over but the shouting. Since Black managed to get into a bit of a time squeeze, White kept pressing the issue. The game ends on an interesting note in that Black could not realize his advantage in a straightforward fashion, so once again some bait was needed. A pawn about to promote tends to be responsible for tunnel vision, especially under the constraints of time pressure.
29…dxc4 30. Nxc4 Qd5 31. b3 Ri8 32. Ne5+ Kc7 33. Qf4 Ri2 34. Nc4+ e5! 35. dxe5 Rxe2+ 36. Ka3 b5! 37. e6+ Kb7 38. exf7??
With time running short, the lure of a second Queen is too much to resist for White.
38…bxc4 39. f8=Q 39…Qa5#
I've seen a lot of long comments but this... This is something else.
Can you make a video about high quality chess sets that are inexpensive for beginners
+sam salazar -- Thanks for the message. It may be a while before I get to making a video like that. I have a large backup of video subjects, and I'm tending toward more exotic and intercultural themes. Probably the best beginners' sets nowadays are standard tournament sets, which can be bought pretty inexpensively. Let me know if you have questions about the sets I do have listed on AncientChess.com
If i were to be asked i would promote a pawn to a chosen special peice on castleing. That way you stay truer to chess. Especially if the piece is a hawk or an eagle.
Thanks for the comment. I don't quite understand ... what does pawn promotion have to do with castling? When you promote, as in chess, you have a choice of any piece, except pawn or king.
I cannot find the Bishop/Knight or the Knight/Rook pieces in your online store.
Thanks for drawing my attention to this. I will have to list those pieces again. When they are listed they will appear here: www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=rickofricks&LH_PrefLoc=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2499338.m570.l1313&_nkw=capablanca&_sacat=0
@@AncientChess You’re very welcome!
very interesting, ty
Thanks Eugene, comment on my videos any time
-- AncientChess.com
+AncientChess The Amazon moves like queen+knight. Also check out metamachy.
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6:43 I think you mean Edward Lasker, not Emmanuel Lasker.
where can i buy such set?
I don't have one ready right now. If you contact me through the web site AncientChess.com, we can talk about getting one to you. It may take a while though. Rick
Did the Philippines ever have its own version of chess like China Thailand ect
+sam salazar -- Chess probably came to the Philippines with the Arab colonization, around 1500 -- so they must have started with the old medieval rules. The southern Philippines, esp. Mindanao, have a unique style of chessmen, bases on old Arab designs but with a specially elaborated knight figure -- but I haven't been able to get any information about the traditional rules of play. Chess is quite popular in the Philippines in general and the country does have its own stylized version of the Staunton chessmen -- with which they play the standard international game
+AncientChess thanks that will really help me out
Would it be a “rookie knight” or a “rookie bishop”
well.. I guess they are new players on the field ...
but they come with MVP advanced certification!
:)
I like the Gothic chess set-up. The only thing is, I feel for that many chessmen perhaps a 10 by 10 board would be better. 16 extra squares for 8 new chessmen doesn't seem sufficient. The only drawback then is that the knights, because of their short range, become weakened. If I'm not mistaken, Capablanca himself originally proposed his version on 10 by 10 but was then prevailed upon by a pusblisher to opt for 10 by 8 instead because of this consideration about knights. I'd be interested to know if the any of these versions do feel too cramped.
Good point. Of course, you've got to play it to find how well each variant works. You'd probably like Christian Freeling's 'Grand Chess' ... Search that and you'll see what I mean
@@AncientChess I just read about it. You're right, it sounds great! Thanks for teaching me something. :)
@@AncientChess Do you know of a place/site that sells grand chess sets?
@@vampireducks1622 Yes, I me .. .but I have to get them listed again. When I have them, they should be appearing here
www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts?_bkw=gothic
@@AncientChess Excellent, thanks
I read about Courier Chess set you will make the sale 10 copies a year.
How many copies a year going to make the sale of Capablanca chess set?
+comidakasher noesharam Thanks for the question. I will try to keep enough of these in stock so I can offer them continually. I get the special pieces, the standard sets and the boards all from different sources ... but if I keep stocked, I should be able to sell as many as are needed.
The courier sets are a bit more involved, since the entire set is my creation except that I depend upon a resin casting expert who sometimes takes a while to get the unfinished chessmen to me. Even when I get them, it takes a while to get the whole set ready (sand, paint, finish, felt, box, boards cut, surfaced, edge painted) ... so, anywhere along the line the process can bog down and I sometimes can't offer them for a few months at a time. It just happens that when I average out the production it's come to about 10 per year.
Let me know if I can tell you anything more
Differente sources? I thought the whole Capablanca Chess set was handmade by you.
You make the special pieces (handmade) or cute and paste the horse on another tower and the head of another bishop on the horse? (from a chess already make by another person).
And if it is not really a 100% handmade then I do not understand why it is so expensive...
+comidakasher noesharam Handmade for me, not by my own hand. Regarding the price, here's a little explanation I sent to another interested fellow: I went for the deluxe line on this one. Costs me a lot to have the pieces made, the sets are top notch and I buy two good quality boards to make each one of these 8 x 10 specials. Sorry, I don't have a cheap or mid-range alternative for these yet.
+AncientChess The pieces that you use seem to be the same of House of Staunton (Except the Knighted Bishop and Knighted Tower and the board). I am right?
www.ebay.com/itm/The-Gothic-Edition-Reykjavik-II-Chess-Set-3-75-inch-King-/262051644678?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
However, they sell the pieces and board SEPARATELY...
And in the end it ends up being almost as expensive as you sell...
:(
+comidakasher noesharam -- Interesting :) I see they're selling pieces only on eBay for 249 plus shipping.
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the same basic set, but with different 'special' pieces.
On their website, they've got the whole set for $355.95 plus shipping.
(Note that my prices always include shipping within the US)
If you'd like something in particular like just the board, just the pieces, just certain pieces ... or even if you just want me to give you a 'deal' please contact me through my web site. Let me know what you'd like.
AncientChess.com
I like your channel, it calms me down.
+Cellkist Thanks for the good comment! For some reason, your logo picture makes me nervous...
AncientChess Haha no it's just a generic symbol for what people call, Grammar Nazis.
+Cellkist Oh, very funny. I can be a bit of a grammar nazi myself sometimes. Let me know if I slip up (but don't kill me)!
could you take a look at noble celts chess its different considering it's a circle for the board instead of the standard boarf
+Kody Raymond Thanks for the message. Noble Celts has a very interesting arrangement, I'm sure it would be interesting to play though I never have. The logic of the board is basically the 'cylindrical' design, which has been done in various ways over the centuries. Nowadays, you can even get an actual 3-D cylinder board with pieces that stick all around. Anyway also interesting in Noble Celts is the way the playing points are connected by diagonals rather than (distorted) squares. Really a different way of looking at the familiar game for sure.
Thank you for replying so quickly and thanks I'm not very good at chess but I love it and I'm starting to look at different versions of it and yours was the first channel on UA-cam that came thanks agen
315$ set complete (40 chessmen with board) ????
+comidakasher noesharam I went for the deluxe line on this one. Costs me a lot to have the pieces made, the sets are top notch and I buy two good quality boards to make each one of these 8 x 10 specials. Sorry, I don't have a cheap or mid-range alternative for these yet. (I hope I've answered all four of you question marks)
std. chess plus 2chariot move same rook not more than 3aq. 2sword (nobleman in thai chess) 1dragon( or prince) move same queen not more than 2 sq. 1elephant(or princess) move like king 2archery move like nobleman and capture leape 1sq. left right forword and diagonal left and right(5 dimemtions)
?
Technically, Gothic Chess was invented in 2000. In the year 2002 the patent was received, on November 19th. Too bad it wasn't three years earlier. November 19, 1999 was the last date in which all of the digits are odd (11/19/1999) until January 1st in the year 3111. Similarly, February 2, 2000 was the first time all of the digits in the date were even since August 28 in the year 888.
Can you show a game being played?
Sorry, I don't have any demo games to post. I'll keep it in mind, if I ever have a chance. I really have enjoyed playing this game with my local chess club though. Chess players are usually resistant to variants, but these novel pieces are easy to understand -- and of course the name Capablanca carries a bit of weight...
AncientChess Good to know.
There's a few of our older games from 2001-2007 online a few places.
z13.invisionfree.com/Gothic_Chess_Forum/ar/t372.htm
web.archive.org/web/20050306144836/www.gothicchess.org:80/gotm.html
web.archive.org/web/20050220201652/www.gothicchess.org:80/gotm_2003_05.html
web.archive.org/web/20050224032036/www.gothicchess.org:80/game2.html
It's possible to play this variants at brainking.com. There's a lot of games that you guys can see and analyze.
Thanks for the link! I know most of the games I review can be played online, but I haven't sought out the resources for them. Info like this is greatly appreciated
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I like this. A lot. But I think it'd be a curiosity set until I became a GM.
So, you know, in a while...
Hey, no need to excel in one form of chess before trying another! Learning something new is always a good thing
You'd like this chess variant. Beta Testing is totally FREE on Android:
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Can someone introduce double queen chess on a 9×9 board? The king will have two queens on each side. The number of pawns are nine. It may bring more energy to the game which has already enough energy.
Thanks for your comment. It sounds like a very interesting game. Have you tried it?
@@AncientChess Not yet. The idea just occured to me while seeing your video. I think l will try it on a new board. It might be interesting. Thanks for sharing your valuable time with me!
@@premdasyesudasan5778 It's a pleasure to hear from you. Send your thoughts any time. And let us know if you do have a chance to try some new chess ideas
@@AncientChess Sure! Thank you, thank you so much!
I'd love to buy it but it is a bit too expensive :(
+LiAlH4 Yeah, I understand, this is a 'deluxe' version of the games. If I ever get a less expensive set going I'll let you know. By the way, you can download the rule booklet free from the 'free downloads' link on my site AncientChess.com.
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intresting maybe in few centuries this or fisher chess will replace normal chess
Good comment. I agree, it would be a natural step in the evolution of the game for one of these forms to eventually move in as the most popular sort of chess. None are named after Fischer, though he did show a strong interest in Trice's Chess -- formerly called "Gothic Chess"
@@AncientChess by fisher chess i mean random normal chess also called 960chess or fischer chess
@@GOLEM-yf4mx Oh, I see -- you DID mean Fischer Random -- not the forms shown here.
I do like Fischer Random (Chess960) but to me it's only a temporary fix. A little jostle in the path of those who memorize opening ad tedium. I think there are other chess variations that take care of that problem, but don't allow the same old over-analysis to creep back in -- and don't subject us to a few 'random' opening arrays that really don't make for as balanced of a game. The world of chess is wide! We will see what the future brings --
aworldofchess.com
Kings are on the wrong squares very suspicious
Not really 'wrong', but different. Notice the explanation at 6:00.
The idea that has taken hold in most variants is that white's king is on his right; black's king is on his left. This takes precedence over the 'queen on her color' idea, since experienced standard players are more concerned with the right-left familiarity than with the color choice. It just works out a little differently on a board of 10 x 8 squares.
@@AncientChess yeah sorry bout that mate i thought i deleted that comment
@@MrUrech No problem at all -- I appreciate that you are looking into these games
I like n-bishop & don't like n-rook
YES, of course!! See the super project from Russia
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These pieces design are really ugly.
Wow, pretty heavy on the negativity there.
Have something of value to share with us?