I play in a band several nights a week, almost all of the places we play, street dances, things of that nature, we bring our own PA and we have had the same FOH person since we started, they're basically a member of the band at this point.
As a FOH engineer, I completely agree. And I think more bands (in the Pheonix Arizona area) should look around to hire an engineer. Maybe even one named Jonathan Sellers, but idk
When I did my first tour doing FOH it was a huge surprise to the band that I was changing things and riding faders and playing to the parts of their songs! When they found out they loved me for it and started making suggestions and it was an awesome process and it was fun for us all to tweak the mixes to get them where they were by the end of the tour!
I'm in a local coverband with 12 musicians on stage using like 30 inputs and a digital mixer is one of the best things to have. Just to quickly recall a preset and not spending too much time on getting the IEMs setup right, dealing with the stereo keys etc. is awesome.
This is one of your best videos yet Fluff, thank you for calling this out! FOH engineers and lighting specialists are the unsung heroes of live shows and they can make or break a band. I’d say they’re equally as important as the rest of the band members.
I saw the dear hunter this summer, and noticed they had their own sound guy this time, and he was using the same midas console you guys are - not only have they never sounded better live (I've seen them a lot) but it was probably the best live sound I've ever heard at any concert in my life. FOH is a true game changer.
As the flip side, I do lighting for a production company on the side, and am train9ing on the FOH. For events such as concerts, State Fair, county fairs, etc, the norm is FOH is hired by the venue for all the shows. In 3 years, had two shows use a backline company for drums, IEM, and monitor world. Last summer one band rented a console from the backline company and brought their own FOH engineer. They rented a Behringer X32 console, LOL. The production company was running a Venue SC48 console. The band forgot to order the AES50 cable, then ran to the local Home Depot to buy 2 100 foot CAT5 cables, but forgot to buy a coupler to join them. They managed to run back to HD to get a coupler in time for the show, but it cut into the setup time. If a band tours and has their own FOH engineer, it adds cost of the logistics of ensuring a console the engineer is comfortable with is included in the rider. Most production companies have years of experience with setup for smaller bands. A larger band where the band is the only act, then yes, the band is then required to contract or provide all the equipment. However if your band tours and shares the stage with other bands, then most often the venue has a professional FOH there. The problem the production company had with the band FOH engineer was they were excessive with volume and damaged a driver in our equipment. Most production companies take care of their equipment. Most bands that rent in everything tend to push the limits on SPL with their own FOH. I keep a pair of shooting mufs for hearing protection whenever a band brings their own FOH. There is no reason to run 120 DB SPL at FOH. Pro tip, If you don't want to ship a console, that is quite common, put it on your tech rider and have the production company provide one, or use a back line company, then bring your show file on a thumb drive to load your show into the console. Don't forget the details such as the DL32 and AES50 cable.
Great advice! You should make a video about all the terms used when gigging. Like "FOH" (like today), and things like "backline" and "support" and other terms musicians and bands will come across while gigging. Some seem obvious, but there are a lot of people, new people in particular, that could use the help. Also, you might want to make sure the TV's off in the background, it's distracting, especially right next to your head. - Advice from my wife.
Well said! I for myself chose a SQ5 for our last North America run because I don´t like the M/X32 but that´s only a workflow thing and doesn´t mean they are not getting the job done. Since venues in the states book a lot of local supports and I´m not a fan of wiring everything new when we´re on, I´ve decided to bring a 24-channel split to make it easier for the inhouse guys working over the same setup but on their own console without messing around. Most >500 venues don´t have enough cables for 2 bands anyways. So I made sure that cables are long enough to mic up their backline in front of ours and let them use my mics. Great Videos man! Greetings from Austria (Not Australia 😉)
This was a great video to watch as a FOH engineer in a venue. The thing that stuck out the most to me is the advancing of the tech rider. There's so many times that we'll get advances from a national tour and it's only the headliner. Therefore I never know if I'm running any of the bands until they show up. Of course I always cater to the headliner but I've actually ran into issues of running out of mic stands because I only know what 1 out of 4 or 5 bands need. It's probably the only stressful thing about running FOH besides dealing with feedback. Once the show is up and running it's the most fun job I've ever had.
It is wild to think about how the FOH guy has to do basically the same work you have to do in an analog studio setting, but there's no going back to fix anything if he messes up. It just never occurred to me before. You guys are definitely the best sounding band I've seen live hands down, and I've seen bands like Judas Priest and Slipknot. Keep it up, guys! Excited to see what y'all do next.
I have been messing around with audio and live mixing since I was a teenager. I spent 3 years in a club running foh in my twenties and nearly a decade with a live performing band after that. Running sound in the club was hectic but the greatest learning experience of my life. To expand on the subject of bringing your own mixer. Only 1 band came through that club with their own console. Nothing More. Their show came with them on a presonus live console. They had all their fx changes preprogrammed in midi. And they came with their own engineer to monitor the console. It made the show amazing. Lots of other bands came through with their own engineer but nothing more was the only one to bring their own console. I'm still with the band I've been with a decade now. Its also came with its lessons and I've learned, if you can afford foh, DO IT. We have all seen so many bands touring and playing gigs without foh and I gotta say, it really affects not just how the overall show sounds and feels but it also affects band members performance and reliability on the stage. My band refuses to play without foh anymore. In fact there have been a few shows over the years I had to miss for personal reasons. The band says it goes terrible every time. So now I keep a friend on standby just in case. He will travel wherever we need him. He earns my pay when I'm not available. He isn't quite as good as me (according to the band) but he still saves the show when he's needed. Guys get an FOH engineer. We need love too!!! Lol but seriously, we can make or break your show. Find a guy you trust and build that relationship, it can go a long way.
Nicely detailed, Mr Fluff. It is very in-depth, and having someone specific that knows your show details, is a weight off of your mind, and can allow you and your bandmates to focus even more on the show. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
The Swedish melodic hard rock veterans of Treat has a preset mix in a Behringer 32x mixer. They feed the FOH a stereo output for their gigs. They always sound great. That’s one of many ways to do it.
Cool video, thanks for posting! Great advice. Our bass player back in the day was a sound guy also and it made all the difference in the world for us sounding consistent and good every show. Definitely echo your recommendations!!
This is a great video to come out for me to watch since my first big gig for a local hotel concert as the sound engineer is coming up for a New Year’s Eve event.
A great video this one; I 100% agree with the points made within it, in particular the point of "of your FOH person knows your songs...". One thing I would like to highlight though is in reference technical riders; you mentioned some sound engineers don't read them, and I can't argue with that, many don't.. As a sound engineer who works primarily multi-band events with bands I've often not met before, technical riders are very important to me as I put time in before a show to familiarise myself with a bands music, and off the back of the technical spec, I may rough in some scenes and settings ahead of the sound check in the interest of saving a little time on the day. All of this comes unstuck though when I learn the tech spec is wrong; and that happens far more often than not. It's frustrating to say the least, and it may be why some sound engineers don't bother reading them, as they're very often wrong.
Yeah, it seems to me all the great bands we know of today were very quick to find their own sound guy early on in their career. Glad you're on your path to becoming the legends!
I love the M32 and X32. They are the only consoles that I know of that does the flip to fader both ways. This definitely helps with getting the bands individual monitor mixes set way quicker while doing line checks.
Most modern digital mixing consoles have motorized faders. The X32 and M32 are great consoles especially for the price, but when you get to bigger productions, you begin to look at the bigger boards from brands like Allan and heath, digico, avid, ect.
@@bswinn97 not too sure about that, i have seen some big shows using their own m32 instead of the soundcraft vi4 we had in the venue. it pretty much all come down to cost and workflow, many soundguy like to work on yamaha's or berhinger\midas because they already know the boards well.
@@thomas.cloutier-guay Very true. Most bands don’t ever exceed the 32 channel or even 48 channel limit. It’s all up to the needs of each band. I’m talking bigger touring acts like arena rigs, or houses of worship where you’re passing through more than 64 channels of audio, or you need the extra amount of outputs for auxes/matrixes. At the end of the day though, most people will be just fine with a board they’re familiar with.
most modern consoles do flip to fader both ways, or have a way of doing it, be it Avid s l lines, sc48/digidesign, digico etc. Midas pro series does not and it's a hastle to do monitoring on it(at least the pro1 is a nightmare). A&H as well, soundcraft vi(big ones) have it.
not wrong. The amount of house engineers who hadn't a clue on how to mix metal, or would just load up "the last band"s mix. Can ruin a gigs potential. Before this, if the band is at a lower level... take a PHOTOGRAPHER with, nothing better for your marketing after tour then good shots of the band, even if the shows sounded bad. haha! Great topic Fluff !
As a touring front of house, I approve! Although I have my own console, don’t like relying on a bands equipment for my job, I want to come just as prepared to do my job as the band is to do theirs. All that being said who needs to hire FOH I’m available lol
I have been doing FOH sound for 30+ years and of course I agree. However, I‘ve also been a FOH babysitter for festivals and stuff many times and from that experience I can only say, hire your own sound guy but pick a pro. Hiring a friend, who does it very cheap and doesn‘t have a clue, just for bringing your own guy, doesn‘t help you at all.
I'm looking at investing in a console right now. Wavering between an SQ5/6 or an Avantis. When you're out on tour, do you find they'll make room for a larger console like the Avantis, or is the SQ console more likely to have an easier fit in those venues?
Honestly, ready to hire an FOH just because so many house engineers have an aneurysm when I give them a fan-tail for a Kick, Guitar, Bass, 3 Tracks, 3 Vocals, and all they have to do is supply snare and tom mics. Then they do classic things like, it's clearly a death metal/deathcore show, so don't even put the singular (direct) guitar through the FOH until 4 songs in, make the bass DI the loudest thing, and kind of sprinkle everything else differently night to night, including vocals.
A few years ago I saw Alestorm, Nekrogoblikon, and Aether Realm. The venue added on Death Angel (who were friends with the promotor) to the show and bumped the actual touring acts down the card and had to shorten their sets. On top of that when Aether Realm was on stage the mix was awful, I looked at the FOH and no one was there. The other bands had their own sound engineers so they were fine, but Aether Realm really got screwed by the venue.
In Oz, The Midas M32 is hastily put in a corner and shut away. Allen & Heath SQ5's and Digico desks run amok here, and it's great. I'm a FOH engineer for several bands, and in house at several venues. Do not understand the American/Canadian techs who use this desk. So clunky
As a person who has played many places in the area of mo I can say around here getting a FOH man for your band will help a lot. The foh guys around here are hit and miss and your show's sound depends on that. As someone who doesn't work in bands much anymore you should contact me if you are in the area and need one.
2:45 As a house tech I've always read the tech rider if provided, but way too often I've prepped everything according to the rider and when the band shows up it soon turns out that I've been provided with outdated rider and the line up is different or something like that so I've spent more time setting everything up than it would've been needed.🥲 I always read the tech riders but I also understand technicians who have decided that it's just less work to get the current information when the band arrives and set up accordingly.
I saw Soen with their own FOH and my god it made such a difference. Sounded CD quality. Same with Katatonia. House engineers NEVER have effects and barely use compression. Vocals always sound like shit, flat, horrible dynamics. Drums definitely dont cut and sound way too round or dead. They flew sound guy out from Sweden and light engineer from Italy. The 2 of them did amazing. And ive seen how bad bands sound inside Crowbar in Tampa, but Soen’s engineer made it sound like a whole other venue.
As someone going to a lot of show in very small clubs - there's another thing to know about own vs. location FOH. Especially small clubs have their quirks soundwise. And in like 95% of the time, the band's FOH did NOT the deliver the good sound that evening. It was the inhouse FOV, who knows the location and the PA. And the console, since those locations don't have the space to change the mixing board. I know, this is like the complete opposite of what Fluff is saying, but beware - he's talking about a certain level, not about the you and me bands we amateurs and semi-professionals are playing in. So maybe take that grain of salt with it. If you're on a certain level, do it. Get an own FOH. But don't worry too much about it when you can't headline anything.
I'm on both sides if this; I am FOH/providing PA for one band and drummer for another with no involvement with sound other than my in ear mix. The band carries their own system for the smaller , no sound provided gigs. Mostly we play on larger stages with flown systems and have become familiar with the guys at FOH and monitors. If you can, make a qualified sound guy a regular member of the band! it makes a huge difference in consistency and presentation.
You can’t always rely on the venue you play at. Last show I went to was the Callous Daoboys and greyhaven over at the Beat Kitchen in Chicago. It was night and day with sound. Callous used the in house sound person and honestly sounded terrible but still killed it. Greyhaven literally sounded better than their actual albums it was so on point because they brought there own FOH guy
I do electronic music with drum machines, synths, and sequencers. I have a 24 channel Mackie analog console in the studio. I ever did a show I would do my own FOH. My recordings tend to be live jams mixed on the ñ console and recorded in the DAW. So I could easily translate that to a show. Instead of the main mix going to an audio interface it would go to the house PA. I would also send the audio to the DAW or digital audio recorder so I could have a recording of the show. I use sequencers it's easy enough to do any live tweaks on the console since I am not live playing everything. I wouldn't trust the house FOA person to dial in my mix correctly. It's easier to move a fader myself than going "yea can you turn the kick up a bit?". Yea having your own FOH person and console saves you the hassle of dealing with random people and random equipment. And I use outboard effects. I wouldn't trust a house FOA person to dial those in properly.
Will the venue let you switch the output cables/speakers to your console though?? Had this weird thing happen to me twice this year: We use a Behringer X32 for our in-ears and in the rack we also have a Behringer ULTRALINK MS8000 splitter for the inputs. Two different venue FOH guys didnt want their inputs running through that splitter just because it was a Behringer and therefore not a quality one (needless to say none of them ever read the Tech Rider) So what's to stop them from saying the same thing to our FOH engineer for using a Behringer x32 or something??
If the venue contractually agrees to the tech rider before finalizing the gig and hiring you for it then you should be good. Most venues I’ve encountered are pretty flexible just as long as you make them money, don’t destroy/damage things, and are easy to work with. Those sound engineers you’ve encountered are just stubborn; if I was a sound engineer at those two gigs, as long as your splitter worked and didn’t do anything negative to the sound coming into the FOH board, I’d be ecstatic that I wouldn’t have to worry about in ear mixes for y’all 😂😂
If you’re bringing your own FOH engineer couldn’t you bring only the wireless unit section of your in ear rig? Then have him mix your monitors and save the space and complications of fitting it all in the circle three case. Referring to overseas and fly shows of course.
Don’t do the M32R, or sweetwater. Get an SQ from your local distributor. Not only will you get a fully customizable console, but you will help your local friends put food in the table.
Ahh the joys of having ya own FOH person. The invisible band member who makes sure you sound good and the light show stays in time 🤘🏽 Lasers ,fog ,strobes, and all those par cans and pin spots!!!
Compression and EQ coming from the FOH? Interesting, i never really thought of that. I figured that's all taken care of at the source, by the guitarists/bassists gear... but then there *_are_* the drums to manage. Is the FOH EQ, compression, etc. the main way that drums go from a dry sound to a TIGHT sound? EDIT: feeling stupid, this must be how it's done to manage drums. Probably vox too? I'd imagine Guitars, Bass, and any Keys would be pretty much left alone by FOH when it comes to EQ and comp. Maybe I am wrong tho, *_ENLIGHTEN ME_*
Depends on how the room and band is. Mainly I’ll have EQ and compression on just about everything. But sometimes I don’t have any at all. Especially mixing L & R you’ll be using high pass filters for stuff you don’t want in the subs. Each room is different so you might do things you would never think of doing before. But if it sounds good, it’s good.
Cool video, good info. 2 questions: Have you ever had a venue give you a problem in trying to use your own board, or your own sound person (I would hope not, but some places are weird)
If a place didn't let me bring my console and let me be my own FOH; I wouldn't play there. I don't trust a random FOH person to dial in the mix correctly. I use layered drum machines and synths. So the mix has to be dialed in correctly. Is a random FOH person going to be able to dial in multiple drum machines with at least one having individual outputs? Then you have the outboard effects to deal with. Yea I am bringing my own shit and doing it myself.
@@jennoscura2381 That's what I would feel like too, I am just curious if anyone has ever experienced a place where they said yes initially, then all of a sudden it's different when you get there or something. Maybe that was the more properly worded version of that question, lol
Too many house engineers do the bare minimum. Your own engineer should help you develop your show. I was often hired for important shows like cd releases and showcases. Your FOH guy can also assist with stage sound to improve things.
As someone who does FOH work mostly on location for several locations: I do read Riders every time and usually spend several days beforehand listening to whoever visits the place. I also make sure everything is rigged beforehand so the Band basically basically has to plug in and go. I see the points made in this video, however, I STRONGLY disagree with the point that all on location Guys suck
My touring cover band tours with an IEM monitoring system where we control our own mixes and then we hand tails to the venue’s front of house so they can do what they need to. The venues we play already have systems that are nicer than we could afford, so it doesn’t make sense to have our own FOH, since we play a lot of nightclubs, casinos, and mid-large venues. These places all have their own full-time sound engineers, and a lot of them are unionized especially on the casino circuit. So we wouldn’t even have the option to bring our own sound system, let alone an FOH console if we wanted to. The only places we bring our own sound system or sound engineer would be the occasional wedding or a private event, and in that case we would hire out the best that we could and someone who has years or decades of experience with running sound and a system they know inside and out. This was a fantastic video, and provided some great insight especially for those who aren’t familiar with how all this works. Looks like you have had a fantastic tour cycle this year and it was great to follow along on Instagram.
Hey Zack, Fluff is talking more about the console and sound tech not necessarily the PA. There are bands in our scene that have their own sound tech even, in casinos. There are also venues that have a PA but no console so the band is responsible for providing the console and sound tech. Two that we've played are Jenks and River Rock.
@@RalphMercuroMusic Yeah I know he’s referring to both the console and person. Figured it’d be worth adding that having a self-contained IEM will improve the sound the band hears which can help enhance the performance for the audience! I found this to be the best investment I’ve made for gigging and feel much better on stage because of it. We’ve always used house FOH at our gigs, atleast it’s always been provided and we’ve generally had great results. Interesting about Jenks, didn’t know you could bring your own Sound Engineer. When I was in Evo X Bobby always worked sound.
@@RalphMercuroMusic I haven’t played River Rock, but know that Willie McBrides Hoboken has mains but no console, and The Marlin and Parker House have nothing. Otherwise I can’t think of anywhere else where we’ve needed to provide a console and engineer. But we do have “go-to” guys we keep in contact with that will come out if available that we trust. Always good to build relationships with good people.
You live in a different world than me. I've been on both sides of the desk, but what will happen, is the headliner will make you use their equipment, and their engineer, and make sure that you sound like shit. That's the challenge!
So what happens if your guitar breaks…. Break a string, wireless signal issues, etc. when typically someone would have your backup axe at the ready and swap it out to ya. Or for young bands is this something you deal with and go swap a guitar yourself mid song?
Not having a FOH guy while doing a tour of any type is putting your brand in jeopardy. If your sound is terrible you're terrible. You better have songs that everyone knows so they can sing along. Great move on your part to have dedicated sound guy.
if anyone is getting to this level in their career, they should be relying on their real life human friends for this kind of advice, not youtube :/ it must be so weird trying to keep pumping content out for a living :/ :/ :/
Truly appreciate the opportunity Dragged Under has given me with running FOH. Excited for what’s to come and glad to call you my friends 🤘
I play in a band several nights a week, almost all of the places we play, street dances, things of that nature, we bring our own PA and we have had the same FOH person since we started, they're basically a member of the band at this point.
As a FOH engineer, I completely agree. And I think more bands (in the Pheonix Arizona area) should look around to hire an engineer. Maybe even one named Jonathan Sellers, but idk
When I did my first tour doing FOH it was a huge surprise to the band that I was changing things and riding faders and playing to the parts of their songs! When they found out they loved me for it and started making suggestions and it was an awesome process and it was fun for us all to tweak the mixes to get them where they were by the end of the tour!
I'm in a local coverband with 12 musicians on stage using like 30 inputs and a digital mixer is one of the best things to have. Just to quickly recall a preset and not spending too much time on getting the IEMs setup right, dealing with the stereo keys etc. is awesome.
12 musicians.. local cover band hell. But good point for presets etc
@@charlcoetzee93 brass section and background vocals. People add up quickly🤣
that riff you play at the beginning of your vids have been stuck in my head for at least a year
Love that Archer is on in the background. One of my favorite shows.
This is one of your best videos yet Fluff, thank you for calling this out! FOH engineers and lighting specialists are the unsung heroes of live shows and they can make or break a band. I’d say they’re equally as important as the rest of the band members.
I saw the dear hunter this summer, and noticed they had their own sound guy this time, and he was using the same midas console you guys are - not only have they never sounded better live (I've seen them a lot) but it was probably the best live sound I've ever heard at any concert in my life. FOH is a true game changer.
As the flip side, I do lighting for a production company on the side, and am train9ing on the FOH. For events such as concerts, State Fair, county fairs, etc, the norm is FOH is hired by the venue for all the shows. In 3 years, had two shows use a backline company for drums, IEM, and monitor world. Last summer one band rented a console from the backline company and brought their own FOH engineer. They rented a Behringer X32 console, LOL. The production company was running a Venue SC48 console. The band forgot to order the AES50 cable, then ran to the local Home Depot to buy 2 100 foot CAT5 cables, but forgot to buy a coupler to join them. They managed to run back to HD to get a coupler in time for the show, but it cut into the setup time.
If a band tours and has their own FOH engineer, it adds cost of the logistics of ensuring a console the engineer is comfortable with is included in the rider. Most production companies have years of experience with setup for smaller bands. A larger band where the band is the only act, then yes, the band is then required to contract or provide all the equipment. However if your band tours and shares the stage with other bands, then most often the venue has a professional FOH there.
The problem the production company had with the band FOH engineer was they were excessive with volume and damaged a driver in our equipment. Most production companies take care of their equipment. Most bands that rent in everything tend to push the limits on SPL with their own FOH. I keep a pair of shooting mufs for hearing protection whenever a band brings their own FOH. There is no reason to run 120 DB SPL at FOH.
Pro tip, If you don't want to ship a console, that is quite common, put it on your tech rider and have the production company provide one, or use a back line company, then bring your show file on a thumb drive to load your show into the console. Don't forget the details such as the DL32 and AES50 cable.
The New Year show was so awesome. Thank you and your band for starting my year off the right way
Great advice! You should make a video about all the terms used when gigging. Like "FOH" (like today), and things like "backline" and "support" and other terms musicians and bands will come across while gigging. Some seem obvious, but there are a lot of people, new people in particular, that could use the help.
Also, you might want to make sure the TV's off in the background, it's distracting, especially right next to your head. - Advice from my wife.
Nah
Well said!
I for myself chose a SQ5 for our last North America run because I don´t like the M/X32 but that´s only a workflow thing and doesn´t mean they are not getting the job done. Since venues in the states book a lot of local supports and I´m not a fan of wiring everything new when we´re on, I´ve decided to bring a 24-channel split to make it easier for the inhouse guys working over the same setup but on their own console without messing around. Most >500 venues don´t have enough cables for 2 bands anyways. So I made sure that cables are long enough to mic up their backline in front of ours and let them use my mics.
Great Videos man!
Greetings from Austria (Not Australia 😉)
1:34 - "Is Archer on, Barry?"
"Why yes it is Other Barry... yes it is."
Great taste in t.v. shows btw.... 😉 Thanks for the hype for us FOH and Monitor engineers, Fluff! Cheers
This was a great video to watch as a FOH engineer in a venue. The thing that stuck out the most to me is the advancing of the tech rider. There's so many times that we'll get advances from a national tour and it's only the headliner. Therefore I never know if I'm running any of the bands until they show up. Of course I always cater to the headliner but I've actually ran into issues of running out of mic stands because I only know what 1 out of 4 or 5 bands need. It's probably the only stressful thing about running FOH besides dealing with feedback. Once the show is up and running it's the most fun job I've ever had.
It is wild to think about how the FOH guy has to do basically the same work you have to do in an analog studio setting, but there's no going back to fix anything if he messes up. It just never occurred to me before. You guys are definitely the best sounding band I've seen live hands down, and I've seen bands like Judas Priest and Slipknot.
Keep it up, guys! Excited to see what y'all do next.
I have been messing around with audio and live mixing since I was a teenager. I spent 3 years in a club running foh in my twenties and nearly a decade with a live performing band after that.
Running sound in the club was hectic but the greatest learning experience of my life. To expand on the subject of bringing your own mixer. Only 1 band came through that club with their own console. Nothing More. Their show came with them on a presonus live console. They had all their fx changes preprogrammed in midi. And they came with their own engineer to monitor the console. It made the show amazing. Lots of other bands came through with their own engineer but nothing more was the only one to bring their own console.
I'm still with the band I've been with a decade now. Its also came with its lessons and I've learned, if you can afford foh, DO IT. We have all seen so many bands touring and playing gigs without foh and I gotta say, it really affects not just how the overall show sounds and feels but it also affects band members performance and reliability on the stage. My band refuses to play without foh anymore. In fact there have been a few shows over the years I had to miss for personal reasons. The band says it goes terrible every time. So now I keep a friend on standby just in case. He will travel wherever we need him. He earns my pay when I'm not available. He isn't quite as good as me (according to the band) but he still saves the show when he's needed.
Guys get an FOH engineer. We need love too!!! Lol but seriously, we can make or break your show. Find a guy you trust and build that relationship, it can go a long way.
Nicely detailed, Mr Fluff. It is very in-depth, and having someone specific that knows your show details, is a weight off of your mind, and can allow you and your bandmates to focus even more on the show. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
The Swedish melodic hard rock veterans of Treat has a preset mix in a Behringer 32x mixer. They feed the FOH a stereo output for their gigs. They always sound great. That’s one of many ways to do it.
Cool video, thanks for posting! Great advice. Our bass player back in the day was a sound guy also and it made all the difference in the world for us sounding consistent and good every show. Definitely echo your recommendations!!
This is a great video to come out for me to watch since my first big gig for a local hotel concert as the sound engineer is coming up for a New Year’s Eve event.
Looking forward to finding the opportunity to mix for a tour band this year. Leggo 2023 😎🤘 great video Fluff
Absolutely hilarious that you have ARCHER on in the background
thanks for reppin' us FOH/MONS techs dude, and glad your guy's smashing it!
This is the stuff we need more content on! Thanks Ryan, things like this helps everyone!
A great video this one; I 100% agree with the points made within it, in particular the point of "of your FOH person knows your songs...".
One thing I would like to highlight though is in reference technical riders; you mentioned some sound engineers don't read them, and I can't argue with that, many don't.. As a sound engineer who works primarily multi-band events with bands I've often not met before, technical riders are very important to me as I put time in before a show to familiarise myself with a bands music, and off the back of the technical spec, I may rough in some scenes and settings ahead of the sound check in the interest of saving a little time on the day. All of this comes unstuck though when I learn the tech spec is wrong; and that happens far more often than not. It's frustrating to say the least, and it may be why some sound engineers don't bother reading them, as they're very often wrong.
Love your videos, always informative. On a side note, you remind me so much of Bill Kelliher in the way you talk and present yourself. 👍
Yeah, it seems to me all the great bands we know of today were very quick to find their own sound guy early on in their career. Glad you're on your path to becoming the legends!
I love the M32 and X32. They are the only consoles that I know of that does the flip to fader both ways. This definitely helps with getting the bands individual monitor mixes set way quicker while doing line checks.
Most modern digital mixing consoles have motorized faders. The X32 and M32 are great consoles especially for the price, but when you get to bigger productions, you begin to look at the bigger boards from brands like Allan and heath, digico, avid, ect.
@@bswinn97 not too sure about that, i have seen some big shows using their own m32 instead of the soundcraft vi4 we had in the venue. it pretty much all come down to cost and workflow, many soundguy like to work on yamaha's or berhinger\midas because they already know the boards well.
@@thomas.cloutier-guay Very true. Most bands don’t ever exceed the 32 channel or even 48 channel limit. It’s all up to the needs of each band. I’m talking bigger touring acts like arena rigs, or houses of worship where you’re passing through more than 64 channels of audio, or you need the extra amount of outputs for auxes/matrixes. At the end of the day though, most people will be just fine with a board they’re familiar with.
most modern consoles do flip to fader both ways, or have a way of doing it, be it Avid s l lines, sc48/digidesign, digico etc. Midas pro series does not and it's a hastle to do monitoring on it(at least the pro1 is a nightmare). A&H as well, soundcraft vi(big ones) have it.
not wrong. The amount of house engineers who hadn't a clue on how to mix metal, or would just load up "the last band"s mix. Can ruin a gigs potential. Before this, if the band is at a lower level... take a PHOTOGRAPHER with, nothing better for your marketing after tour then good shots of the band, even if the shows sounded bad. haha! Great topic Fluff !
As a touring front of house, I approve! Although I have my own console, don’t like relying on a bands equipment for my job, I want to come just as prepared to do my job as the band is to do theirs. All that being said who needs to hire FOH I’m available lol
I have been doing FOH sound for 30+ years and of course I agree. However, I‘ve also been a FOH babysitter for festivals and stuff many times and from that experience I can only say, hire your own sound guy but pick a pro. Hiring a friend, who does it very cheap and doesn‘t have a clue, just for bringing your own guy, doesn‘t help you at all.
Amen!
I'm looking at investing in a console right now. Wavering between an SQ5/6 or an Avantis. When you're out on tour, do you find they'll make room for a larger console like the Avantis, or is the SQ console more likely to have an easier fit in those venues?
Honestly, ready to hire an FOH just because so many house engineers have an aneurysm when I give them a fan-tail for a Kick, Guitar, Bass, 3 Tracks, 3 Vocals, and all they have to do is supply snare and tom mics. Then they do classic things like, it's clearly a death metal/deathcore show, so don't even put the singular (direct) guitar through the FOH until 4 songs in, make the bass DI the loudest thing, and kind of sprinkle everything else differently night to night, including vocals.
i cant help but think of the ARCHER in the background
A few years ago I saw Alestorm, Nekrogoblikon, and Aether Realm. The venue added on Death Angel (who were friends with the promotor) to the show and bumped the actual touring acts down the card and had to shorten their sets. On top of that when Aether Realm was on stage the mix was awful, I looked at the FOH and no one was there. The other bands had their own sound engineers so they were fine, but Aether Realm really got screwed by the venue.
In Oz, The Midas M32 is hastily put in a corner and shut away. Allen & Heath SQ5's and Digico desks run amok here, and it's great. I'm a FOH engineer for several bands, and in house at several venues. Do not understand the American/Canadian techs who use this desk. So clunky
Thumb up for Archer in the background.
As a person who has played many places in the area of mo I can say around here getting a FOH man for your band will help a lot. The foh guys around here are hit and miss and your show's sound depends on that. As someone who doesn't work in bands much anymore you should contact me if you are in the area and need one.
2:45 As a house tech I've always read the tech rider if provided, but way too often I've prepped everything according to the rider and when the band shows up it soon turns out that I've been provided with outdated rider and the line up is different or something like that so I've spent more time setting everything up than it would've been needed.🥲
I always read the tech riders but I also understand technicians who have decided that it's just less work to get the current information when the band arrives and set up accordingly.
Nice and thanks the info bro,can you share the vlog tour....thanks
I saw Soen with their own FOH and my god it made such a difference. Sounded CD quality. Same with Katatonia. House engineers NEVER have effects and barely use compression. Vocals always sound like shit, flat, horrible dynamics. Drums definitely dont cut and sound way too round or dead. They flew sound guy out from Sweden and light engineer from Italy. The 2 of them did amazing. And ive seen how bad bands sound inside Crowbar in Tampa, but Soen’s engineer made it sound like a whole other venue.
As someone going to a lot of show in very small clubs - there's another thing to know about own vs. location FOH. Especially small clubs have their quirks soundwise. And in like 95% of the time, the band's FOH did NOT the deliver the good sound that evening. It was the inhouse FOV, who knows the location and the PA. And the console, since those locations don't have the space to change the mixing board. I know, this is like the complete opposite of what Fluff is saying, but beware - he's talking about a certain level, not about the you and me bands we amateurs and semi-professionals are playing in.
So maybe take that grain of salt with it. If you're on a certain level, do it. Get an own FOH. But don't worry too much about it when you can't headline anything.
I'm on both sides if this; I am FOH/providing PA for one band and drummer for another with no involvement with sound other than my in ear mix. The band carries their own system for the smaller , no sound provided gigs. Mostly we play on larger stages with flown systems and have become familiar with the guys at FOH and monitors. If you can, make a qualified sound guy a regular member of the band! it makes a huge difference in consistency and presentation.
You can’t always rely on the venue you play at. Last show I went to was the Callous Daoboys and greyhaven over at the Beat Kitchen in Chicago. It was night and day with sound. Callous used the in house sound person and honestly sounded terrible but still killed it. Greyhaven literally sounded better than their actual albums it was so on point because they brought there own FOH guy
Next step PRO1, PRO2...and that circle has no end :)
How do you get all the channels to the console? Each venue gives you a feed via cat5 or something?
I do electronic music with drum machines, synths, and sequencers. I have a 24 channel Mackie analog console in the studio. I ever did a show I would do my own FOH. My recordings tend to be live jams mixed on the ñ console and recorded in the DAW. So I could easily translate that to a show. Instead of the main mix going to an audio interface it would go to the house PA. I would also send the audio to the DAW or digital audio recorder so I could have a recording of the show. I use sequencers it's easy enough to do any live tweaks on the console since I am not live playing everything. I wouldn't trust the house FOA person to dial in my mix correctly. It's easier to move a fader myself than going "yea can you turn the kick up a bit?".
Yea having your own FOH person and console saves you the hassle of dealing with random people and random equipment. And I use outboard effects. I wouldn't trust a house FOA person to dial those in properly.
A good FOH plays the console like an instrument
Will the venue let you switch the output cables/speakers to your console though??
Had this weird thing happen to me twice this year:
We use a Behringer X32 for our in-ears and in the rack we also have a Behringer ULTRALINK MS8000 splitter for the inputs.
Two different venue FOH guys didnt want their inputs running through that splitter just because it was a Behringer and therefore not a quality one (needless to say none of them ever read the Tech Rider)
So what's to stop them from saying the same thing to our FOH engineer for using a Behringer x32 or something??
If the venue contractually agrees to the tech rider before finalizing the gig and hiring you for it then you should be good. Most venues I’ve encountered are pretty flexible just as long as you make them money, don’t destroy/damage things, and are easy to work with. Those sound engineers you’ve encountered are just stubborn; if I was a sound engineer at those two gigs, as long as your splitter worked and didn’t do anything negative to the sound coming into the FOH board, I’d be ecstatic that I wouldn’t have to worry about in ear mixes for y’all 😂😂
10 years banner.. oh boy, haven't seen that one in a looooong while...
FOH in reference to the sound person is actually the A1, your Audio "lead"
Not related to the topic of the video, does anyone know why Fluff's background and room changed? What happened to the fancy sound treated space?
If you’re bringing your own FOH engineer couldn’t you bring only the wireless unit section of your in ear rig? Then have him mix your monitors and save the space and complications of fitting it all in the circle three case. Referring to overseas and fly shows of course.
Greatly appreciate this video👍
I love that I don’t have to work with Ulis abominations. I’d even take an ls9 over an x32.
What happens to your studio?
Archer is such a funny ass show!!!
Don’t do the M32R, or sweetwater.
Get an SQ from your local distributor.
Not only will you get a fully customizable console, but you will help your local friends put food in the table.
Ahh the joys of having ya own FOH person. The invisible band member who makes sure you sound good and the light show stays in time 🤘🏽
Lasers ,fog ,strobes, and all those par cans and pin spots!!!
Archer in the background 👌❤️
Compression and EQ coming from the FOH? Interesting, i never really thought of that. I figured that's all taken care of at the source, by the guitarists/bassists gear... but then there *_are_* the drums to manage. Is the FOH EQ, compression, etc. the main way that drums go from a dry sound to a TIGHT sound?
EDIT: feeling stupid, this must be how it's done to manage drums. Probably vox too? I'd imagine Guitars, Bass, and any Keys would be pretty much left alone by FOH when it comes to EQ and comp. Maybe I am wrong tho, *_ENLIGHTEN ME_*
Depends on how the room and band is. Mainly I’ll have EQ and compression on just about everything. But sometimes I don’t have any at all. Especially mixing L & R you’ll be using high pass filters for stuff you don’t want in the subs.
Each room is different so you might do things you would never think of doing before. But if it sounds good, it’s good.
lol you need to update your subscriber vid graphic, it still says 378k... youre across 400 now gogogogo and great work!!!
Cool video, good info. 2 questions: Have you ever had a venue give you a problem in trying to use your own board, or your own sound person (I would hope not, but some places are weird)
If a place didn't let me bring my console and let me be my own FOH; I wouldn't play there. I don't trust a random FOH person to dial in the mix correctly. I use layered drum machines and synths. So the mix has to be dialed in correctly. Is a random FOH person going to be able to dial in multiple drum machines with at least one having individual outputs? Then you have the outboard effects to deal with. Yea I am bringing my own shit and doing it myself.
@@jennoscura2381 That's what I would feel like too, I am just curious if anyone has ever experienced a place where they said yes initially, then all of a sudden it's different when you get there or something. Maybe that was the more properly worded version of that question, lol
LOL WHATS ON THE TV IN THE BACKGROUND I SEEN A NAKED DUDE
1:28
I've seen that episode of archer...
This is a fun episode. Good info. If anyone needs a FOH guy hmu. Also love the archer on in the back ground
Too many house engineers do the bare minimum. Your own engineer should help you develop your show.
I was often hired for important shows like cd releases and showcases. Your FOH guy can also assist with stage sound to improve things.
As someone who does FOH work mostly on location for several locations: I do read Riders every time and usually spend several days beforehand listening to whoever visits the place. I also make sure everything is rigged beforehand so the Band basically basically has to plug in and go. I see the points made in this video, however, I STRONGLY disagree with the point that all on location Guys suck
My touring cover band tours with an IEM monitoring system where we control our own mixes and then we hand tails to the venue’s front of house so they can do what they need to. The venues we play already have systems that are nicer than we could afford, so it doesn’t make sense to have our own FOH, since we play a lot of nightclubs, casinos, and mid-large venues. These places all have their own full-time sound engineers, and a lot of them are unionized especially on the casino circuit. So we wouldn’t even have the option to bring our own sound system, let alone an FOH console if we wanted to.
The only places we bring our own sound system or sound engineer would be the occasional wedding or a private event, and in that case we would hire out the best that we could and someone who has years or decades of experience with running sound and a system they know inside and out.
This was a fantastic video, and provided some great insight especially for those who aren’t familiar with how all this works. Looks like you have had a fantastic tour cycle this year and it was great to follow along on Instagram.
Hey Zack, Fluff is talking more about the console and sound tech not necessarily the PA. There are bands in our scene that have their own sound tech even, in casinos. There are also venues that have a PA but no console so the band is responsible for providing the console and sound tech. Two that we've played are Jenks and River Rock.
@@RalphMercuroMusic Yeah I know he’s referring to both the console and person. Figured it’d be worth adding that having a self-contained IEM will improve the sound the band hears which can help enhance the performance for the audience! I found this to be the best investment I’ve made for gigging and feel much better on stage because of it.
We’ve always used house FOH at our gigs, atleast it’s always been provided and we’ve generally had great results. Interesting about Jenks, didn’t know you could bring your own Sound Engineer. When I was in Evo X Bobby always worked sound.
@@RalphMercuroMusic I haven’t played River Rock, but know that Willie McBrides Hoboken has mains but no console, and The Marlin and Parker House have nothing. Otherwise I can’t think of anywhere else where we’ve needed to provide a console and engineer. But we do have “go-to” guys we keep in contact with that will come out if available that we trust. Always good to build relationships with good people.
Jackson is adorable i want to put him in my pocket
I like Archer too
Archer's Butt makes an apperance
random: what pop filter is that?
Sorry what were you saying? I was watching Archer.
i'm trying to watch Acher.
You live in a different world than me.
I've been on both sides of the desk, but what will happen, is the headliner will make you use their equipment, and their engineer, and make sure that you sound like shit.
That's the challenge!
Do you mean hiring a FOH sound guy would be prioritized over guitar/bass techs?
1000000% YES
So what happens if your guitar breaks…. Break a string, wireless signal issues, etc. when typically someone would have your backup axe at the ready and swap it out to ya. Or for young bands is this something you deal with and go swap a guitar yourself mid song?
Whatever happened to the Machine Gun Kelly sig guitar? How come it didn’t take off in popularity? Just reflecting on 2022.
Not having a FOH guy while doing a tour of any type is putting your brand in jeopardy. If your sound is terrible you're terrible. You better have songs that everyone knows so they can sing along. Great move on your part to have dedicated sound guy.
Drop that midas and get u a sq5
JAREDDINES...WINNER...
if anyone is getting to this level in their career, they should be relying on their real life human friends for this kind of advice, not youtube :/ it must be so weird trying to keep pumping content out for a living :/ :/ :/
You should get a bass player instead.
I use your channel to pirate partial audioless episodes of archer so I don't have to buy Netflix.