Right. F that. I left him. I don't want him back. Now he wants me. F that. I don't trust him anymore. I am looking for consistent and reliable parner . No more avoidants. Gotta get over my addiction though. Limerence. Fantasy. Euphoria recall. I can do this. It has been 5 years of this toxix sh.. show. I can now self regulate. 🎉
Bravo 👏 No more avoidants for me either. I give them all the space they require and can also regulate just fine now, especially when not around them 😉 Bless you ❤🌟🙏🏼🎶😇🌈🕊💫
I get exactly what you mean . The illustrations are effective, no matter it's stick men and women lol. I really wasn't anxious to begin with, rather felt sorry for the avoidants and kept trying to reach out, which then made me anxious ! Now I know sympathy is dangerous as it leads to toxic, negative places and energy. Empathy knows better as I enjoy my own space and grounding. . Bless you Mark and all those here 🥰🎶🙏🏼😇🌈🕊💫
You’re better off learning to identify the avoidant and simply avoid them for your own sanity. Even the most secure person will turn slightly anxious with the constant push pull dynamic that is part of the avoidant playbook.
I don't disagree - and the real gift to the avoidant is telling them the truth and calling them forward. Unfortunately their behaviour generally hooks into the wound of anxiously attached people.
He was all over me with romantic words and (unsatisfying) sex at the beginning, but as soon as I showed a desire for more depth, like having him come to my house for a change, he started announcing his need for space. He said, “Women want to make a nest and men just want to be free,” and other insulting nonsense. I dropped him like a hot potato at that moment. That was at least six months ago. He still texts me and a few days ago invited me to have dinner with him. I’ve ignored him, because I’ve seen what he has to offer, and it’s not enough for me. I will probably be alone the rest of my days, but that is far superior to spending my life catering to someone’s egotistical, puerile fantasy.
@robertahardy4215 i get where you're coming from , though doesn't necessarily mean you'll have to be alone the rest of your days. We can be clear about what we actually want and that is always a good thing. We don't have to settle for less. Raising the bar for ourselves and wanting reciprocation is definitely a requirement. Yes, it's preferable to be alone then to settle for someone that's selfish. The worse loneliness is living with someone who doesn't really care - been there, done that, no thanks ! Bless you and Best wishes ♥️🌟🎶🙏🏼😇🌈🕊💫
And great work dropping him like a hot potato... this type of behaviour, where the request for more depth is met with gaslighting BS, is a massive red flag. I acknowledge you for taking that stand. AND, committing a life of aloneness confirms a belief that when you love people, they are able to show up and meet you where you're at. Avoiding relationships doesn't allow us to learn the skills necessary to create epic ones. You can garner some incredible brilliance from all the moments of your relational life that have caused frustrations and pains... it is precisely by exploring those experiences that you can step more confidently towards connection. You have a big heart, someone wants to share it with you!
In my experience the avoidant person has a cycle 🔂 and to get the separation they need they will behave in ways that cause separation. When the. couple gets back together there was a new low standard set that the avoidant can behave in a bad manner and they will still get back together - as this cycle repeats 🔂 itself the reason for separation becomes more and more extreme - it’s like the avoidant person is pushing your boundaries to see how much abuse punishment you can take and still resume the relationship to show that you still love them and accept them. The next cycle of pushing you away will be worse and worse because you accepted to come back after they have already done something to push you away. Cycle = Mr. Nice Guy. 🥰 / Mr. Devaluation Demoralize 🥴 / Mr. Outbursts of Rage 😤 / Mr. Punisher 🤐🫥 silence disappears separation/ Mr. Peekaboe 🫣 tip toe back to Mr. Nice Guy Sweetheart 🤗. Cycle of abuse & narcissistic cycle.
Wow perfectly explained! Totally true. I felt disconnected from my self, lost, confused about my values and priorities in life, so anxious and exhausted.
I left my avoidant after 4.5 years because he couldn’t talk about the future. To get back at me, he moved on to someone new pretty quickly. For 6 months, while he was with the new girl, he consistently drove by my house. It was so odd considering we spent 4.5 years together for him to drive by and when I would see him, he would just pretend he didn’t see me. I still miss him, but his behavior was so confusing, especially when he was in a new relationship. If I drove by an ex, I would stop and say hello. It was very childish behavior. We are both in our mid 40’s.
@@markgrovesyou’re absolutely right. It was about 6 months in. He love bombed me for the first two plus years. At the time, I didn’t know that was a thing. In the beginning he talked about the future all the time, until about 6 months when he first pulled back. When he used to pull back, I didn’t chase, so I think it made him nervous and he would then love bomb. Like we didn’t do anything for Valentine’s day one year and I didn’t put up any fuss, and a week later he bought me a $2k watch, just because. He had those mixed signal behaviors. I have high empathy so I could see his internal struggle. I finally had enough after 4.5 years because it started to turn me anxious. I finally felt like I was wasting my time, he was never going to change and honestly, I started having the hots for any guy who could show or talk about emotions. I realized that even though I loved this guy and he was meeting all my needs but the emotional intimacy one, that that’s what I needed more than anything. I have stayed single the last two years to grieve and really get intentional before I try to date again, but I’m starting to feel ready!
Thank you! I left my DA after 3.5 years - I knew even if I couldn’t do it for me I had to do it for him, because I was only enabling him to relate with intimacy in an unhealthy way.
This is so good! Thank you, Mark! I'm a fearful avoidant that's on a healing journey. I'm more secure leaning than I've ever been, yet I'm still processing some triggers and tweaking the "I gotta get out of here" escape mentality of being on my avoidant side. Your little stick figures are perfect in describing the dynamic of an anxious/avoidant pairing! Very on point! Very easy to follow. Very satisfying and encouraging to know that each attachment style can heal and be more secure. In order to heal and have what we've never had before, we have to do something we've never done before to break those patterns of attachment that aren't working for us any longer. Hopefully, this will help so many to become a little more self-aware and give them the little incentive to take the first step in healing their attachment style. Thanks again! 🙌🏼💪🏼🫶
I think what’s hard for an avoidant is understanding how not to overreact. What’s needed is to get comfortable with communicating discomfort. That requires accepting your own discomfort, and not blaming anyone else for it.
From our perspective it's kind of like "What now?" It always seems like there's something. When I date secure or other avoidant men, they meet enought of their own needs so I feel like I can relax into the relationship but when it's with someone who leans anxious it seems like there's always an issue to be talked or argued. @@robertahardy4215
Can you please recommend how to start healing and improving after decades of self neglect? I know what I need to do, but just feel stuck. How do you start?
What I would LOVE to see (which I am 10000000% NOT OWED in any way shape or form) is a deep dive into the effects of putting off sex in a relationship can solve many of these issues to one degree or another. It's my theory is that if you aren't banging you're talking and that has a profound impact on the foundation of a relationship. It's not perfect but I feel like it's VERY helpful.
@@michaella5799they do. I even suggested prolonging sex with female FA and she basically shamed me into having it. Bc it’s “2024” “everyone’s fucking” “Who’s everyone” “Well,. My sister and that ONE guy she brings over” “That doesn’t sound good” “Well I’ve showed you all of me”(falsified sanctity) meaning her backyard and kitchen I didn’t hold the boundary and here I am 4 months later wishing I never spoke a word to her. Please heed this if anyone is in the early stages.. it’s soul crushing but you need to hear this. This person will waste precious years of your life. Do NOT let them. They are selfish and not in step with the creator
I’m supposedly anxious. I can self regulate. I have issues doing it in relationships when I think I should be leaning on my partner and they are inconsistent or simply not there. Why try to be independent when you are with somebody else? Just be alone if you want to be alone or that way.
if we can't depend on or lean on our partner when we need them, anxiety is an appropriate response. The body is saying, "if anything goes wrong, I don't know that they'll be there."
Any relational dynamics, including marriage... the partner who is avoidant needs to be called forward. If you haven't already invited them towards change, start there.
How can two people have a healthy relationship when one has a huge open wound hole in their head? 😂 This is great. One point that I’ve noticed working with some men that would be labeled as avoidant is that they don’t know how to deal with the unhealthy behaviours of their partner. Without the skills to navigate, it’s either be aggressive or passive / avoid. Often times they just need to learn how to be assertive to manage the dynamics better. 🙌
Learning how to relate to the behaviours appropriately can be what changes the unhealthy behaviour of their partner. Because the current response (passive/avoid) is unhealthy itself... so they pair well together. One changes... and the other is forced to change, and both move towards healthy relating!
Maybe you're telling yourself that about everyone that has met you in a deep level and makes you afraid and avoidant. Still it's cruel to waste someone's time like that.
@carmelocaramelo2296 yes absolutely true he talk like it s normal to treating someone like that , we all need to be respected regardless our status social , apparence ,age.
Right. F that. I left him. I don't want him back.
Now he wants me. F that. I don't trust him anymore. I am looking for consistent and reliable parner . No more avoidants. Gotta get over my addiction though.
Limerence. Fantasy. Euphoria recall.
I can do this.
It has been 5 years of this toxix sh.. show.
I can now self regulate. 🎉
Bravo 👏 No more avoidants for me either. I give them all the space they require and can also regulate just fine now, especially when not around them 😉
Bless you ❤🌟🙏🏼🎶😇🌈🕊💫
I get exactly what you mean . The illustrations are effective, no matter it's stick men and women lol. I really wasn't anxious to begin with, rather felt sorry for the avoidants and kept trying to reach out, which then made me anxious ! Now I know sympathy is dangerous as it leads to toxic, negative places and energy. Empathy knows better as I enjoy my own space and grounding. . Bless you Mark and all those here 🥰🎶🙏🏼😇🌈🕊💫
1+
You’re better off learning to identify the avoidant and simply avoid them for your own sanity. Even the most secure person will turn slightly anxious with the constant push pull dynamic that is part of the avoidant playbook.
I don't disagree - and the real gift to the avoidant is telling them the truth and calling them forward. Unfortunately their behaviour generally hooks into the wound of anxiously attached people.
He was all over me with romantic words and (unsatisfying) sex at the beginning, but as soon as I showed a desire for more depth, like having him come to my house for a change, he started announcing his need for space. He said, “Women want to make a nest and men just want to be free,” and other insulting nonsense. I dropped him like a hot potato at that moment. That was at least six months ago. He still texts me and a few days ago invited me to have dinner with him. I’ve ignored him, because I’ve seen what he has to offer, and it’s not enough for me.
I will probably be alone the rest of my days, but that is far superior to spending my life catering to someone’s egotistical, puerile fantasy.
Well done. Let’s hope we meet someone much more suited, warmer, happy to be in a relationship and better.
@robertahardy4215 i get where you're coming from , though doesn't necessarily mean you'll have to be alone the rest of your days. We can be clear about what we actually want and that is always a good thing. We don't have to settle for less. Raising the bar for ourselves and wanting reciprocation is definitely a requirement.
Yes, it's preferable to be alone then to settle for someone that's selfish. The worse loneliness is living with someone who doesn't really care - been there, done that, no thanks ! Bless you and Best wishes ♥️🌟🎶🙏🏼😇🌈🕊💫
❤
This is love bombing... I did a podcast on that here: ua-cam.com/video/XxNV9EdN4EY/v-deo.html
And great work dropping him like a hot potato... this type of behaviour, where the request for more depth is met with gaslighting BS, is a massive red flag. I acknowledge you for taking that stand. AND, committing a life of aloneness confirms a belief that when you love people, they are able to show up and meet you where you're at. Avoiding relationships doesn't allow us to learn the skills necessary to create epic ones. You can garner some incredible brilliance from all the moments of your relational life that have caused frustrations and pains... it is precisely by exploring those experiences that you can step more confidently towards connection. You have a big heart, someone wants to share it with you!
Its been 2 months of no contact!! I left!!my anxiety couldn't take his cold behaviour anymore!!
In my experience the avoidant person has a cycle 🔂
and to get the separation they need they will behave in ways that cause separation.
When the. couple gets back together there was a new low standard set that the avoidant can behave in a bad manner and they will still get back together
- as this cycle repeats 🔂 itself the reason for separation becomes more and more extreme -
it’s like the avoidant person is pushing your boundaries to see how much abuse punishment you can take and still resume the relationship to show that you still love them and accept them.
The next cycle of pushing you away will be worse and worse because you accepted to come back after they have already done something to push you away.
Cycle = Mr. Nice Guy. 🥰 / Mr. Devaluation Demoralize 🥴 / Mr. Outbursts of Rage 😤 / Mr. Punisher 🤐🫥 silence disappears separation/ Mr. Peekaboe 🫣 tip toe back to Mr. Nice Guy Sweetheart 🤗.
Cycle of abuse & narcissistic cycle.
That's a narcissist, not an avoidant. Avoidants avoid, not go into rage, devaluation or use silence to punish.
"You leave the connection to yourself to be connected to them and that's no way to live, so eff that." 🤣💯
Exactly! Immature toxic unrealistic mind fu..k keep walking dont look back!
Wow perfectly explained! Totally true. I felt disconnected from my self, lost, confused about my values and priorities in life, so anxious and exhausted.
@@arankagionetti2098 I'm trying 😫
@@malu.maluqui It is so disorienting. It makes you question yourself so much.
I left my avoidant after 4.5 years because he couldn’t talk about the future. To get back at me, he moved on to someone new pretty quickly. For 6 months, while he was with the new girl, he consistently drove by my house. It was so odd considering we spent 4.5 years together for him to drive by and when I would see him, he would just pretend he didn’t see me. I still miss him, but his behavior was so confusing, especially when he was in a new relationship. If I drove by an ex, I would stop and say hello. It was very childish behavior. We are both in our mid 40’s.
yeah that's tough. Explore how early in the 4.5 years you felt that distance and unreliability. That will connect you back to your intuition!
@@markgrovesyou’re absolutely right. It was about 6 months in. He love bombed me for the first two plus years. At the time, I didn’t know that was a thing. In the beginning he talked about the future all the time, until about 6 months when he first pulled back. When he used to pull back, I didn’t chase, so I think it made him nervous and he would then love bomb. Like we didn’t do anything for Valentine’s day one year and I didn’t put up any fuss, and a week later he bought me a $2k watch, just because. He had those mixed signal behaviors. I have high empathy so I could see his internal struggle. I finally had enough after 4.5 years because it started to turn me anxious. I finally felt like I was wasting my time, he was never going to change and honestly, I started having the hots for any guy who could show or talk about emotions. I realized that even though I loved this guy and he was meeting all my needs but the emotional intimacy one, that that’s what I needed more than anything. I have stayed single the last two years to grieve and really get intentional before I try to date again, but I’m starting to feel ready!
Let them know that they show up, or they're being replaced with someone who does... It's a win win?
Thank you! I left my DA after 3.5 years - I knew even if I couldn’t do it for me I had to do it for him, because I was only enabling him to relate with intimacy in an unhealthy way.
I needed this! I left 2 months ago.
Well done!!
Oh my! Love the white board. You’re the greatest!
Most beautiful art on its way :)
Thank you. Love how you explain it and say it bluntly with a big brother tone
Cause I care! Enough tolerating BS!
This is so good! Thank you, Mark! I'm a fearful avoidant that's on a healing journey. I'm more secure leaning than I've ever been, yet I'm still processing some triggers and tweaking the "I gotta get out of here" escape mentality of being on my avoidant side. Your little stick figures are perfect in describing the dynamic of an anxious/avoidant pairing! Very on point! Very easy to follow. Very satisfying and encouraging to know that each attachment style can heal and be more secure. In order to heal and have what we've never had before, we have to do something we've never done before to break those patterns of attachment that aren't working for us any longer. Hopefully, this will help so many to become a little more self-aware and give them the little incentive to take the first step in healing their attachment style.
Thanks again! 🙌🏼💪🏼🫶
I think what’s hard for an avoidant is understanding how not to overreact. What’s needed is to get comfortable with communicating discomfort. That requires accepting your own discomfort, and not blaming anyone else for it.
From our perspective it's kind of like "What now?" It always seems like there's something. When I date secure or other avoidant men, they meet enought of their own needs so I feel like I can relax into the relationship but when it's with someone who leans anxious it seems like there's always an issue to be talked or argued. @@robertahardy4215
This is such a beautiful comment! thank you! and yesssss to increasing your capacity for co-regulation!
❤❤ yep. detached with love.
Avoidant = avoiding responsibility/accountability
Can you please recommend how to start healing and improving after decades of self neglect? I know what I need to do, but just feel stuck. How do you start?
I side with you...
Jeeeez. Well said
Thank u!
What I would LOVE to see (which I am 10000000% NOT OWED in any way shape or form) is a deep dive into the effects of putting off sex in a relationship can solve many of these issues to one degree or another. It's my theory is that if you aren't banging you're talking and that has a profound impact on the foundation of a relationship. It's not perfect but I feel like it's VERY helpful.
Avoidants avoid talking tho, they replace real connection with superficial sex.
@ exactly: don’t replace the sex.
@@michaella5799they do. I even suggested prolonging sex with female FA and she basically shamed me into having it. Bc it’s “2024” “everyone’s fucking”
“Who’s everyone”
“Well,. My sister and that ONE guy she brings over”
“That doesn’t sound good”
“Well I’ve showed you all of me”(falsified sanctity) meaning her backyard and kitchen
I didn’t hold the boundary and here I am 4 months later wishing I never spoke a word to her. Please heed this if anyone is in the early stages.. it’s soul crushing but you need to hear this. This person will waste precious years of your life. Do NOT let them. They are selfish and not in step with the creator
Not completely true. Most DAs end up giving up sex after awhile too. So then what?
@@kristidin1983 then I guess there is no hope and it’s not even work looking at idea of putting off sex.
I’m supposedly anxious. I can self regulate. I have issues doing it in relationships when I think I should be leaning on my partner and they are inconsistent or simply not there.
Why try to be independent when you are with somebody else? Just be alone if you want to be alone or that way.
If you can fulfill yourself why choose the pain of another?
if we can't depend on or lean on our partner when we need them, anxiety is an appropriate response. The body is saying, "if anything goes wrong, I don't know that they'll be there."
Is this advice for dating only or also marriage?
Any relational dynamics, including marriage... the partner who is avoidant needs to be called forward. If you haven't already invited them towards change, start there.
Nice illustration, even though you draw stick people. 😂
Nice and simple... right?!
How can two people have a healthy relationship when one has a huge open wound hole in their head? 😂
This is great. One point that I’ve noticed working with some men that would be labeled as avoidant is that they don’t know how to deal with the unhealthy behaviours of their partner. Without the skills to navigate, it’s either be aggressive or passive / avoid. Often times they just need to learn how to be assertive to manage the dynamics better. 🙌
Why would it be their responsibility to deal with their partners unhealthy behaviors?
Learning how to relate to the behaviours appropriately can be what changes the unhealthy behaviour of their partner. Because the current response (passive/avoid) is unhealthy itself... so they pair well together. One changes... and the other is forced to change, and both move towards healthy relating!
Yeah, when one changes their skillset the other must learn to as well... or fall away.
Sometimes we’re just avoidant because the person is not a good fit on the one hand, but too nice to leave on the other.
That’s cowardice. Leave that person and apologize for wasting their time.
What an absolute load of shit! Grow up!
Maybe you're telling yourself that about everyone that has met you in a deep level and makes you afraid and avoidant.
Still it's cruel to waste someone's time like that.
@carmelocaramelo2296 yes absolutely true he talk like it s normal to treating someone like that , we all need to be respected regardless our status social , apparence ,age.
That is NOT what avoidant attachment is.
Dismissive avoidants are at their worst when someone *IS* a good fit and they have feelings for them!
Very informative