Using Propane instead of R12?
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2018
- Proof of concept - entertainment and educational purposes only
Apparently propane works pretty well in the older vehicles that came with R12 from the factory in their air conditioning systems - Авто та транспорт
We started charging with a butane type refrigerant about 15 years ago so I'm kind of surprised at everyone gawking about the R290/600 being used of late.
We used propane many times in the R-12 systems. Never had a problem with it. It was better than the r-134A conversions.
I was with you 100 until the spray foam. Lol
me too, adapters do exist for this :/
@@SHINdannysend me one
😂
Do you have natural gas or propane piped into your house? Does it leak? Propane /R290 is a superior refrigerant that is cheap and a direct replacement for freon.
Hank Hill intensifies
It would work even better if you purged all that atmospheric air from the empty can and hose.
Interesting, but I do not think that the can would survive a vacuum intact. Probably best to rig the setup without the can by splicing via the hoses and a suitable connector. Some valves and a tee for a vacuum pump would be useful there.
@@richhagenchicago you wouldn't need to pull vacuum for that. Just give the fill trigger a pull to bleed off air from your fill lines. (lightly pulling trigger while screwing in the propane supply might be better). Your ac vent temp will not drop bellow 52 even if you are driving. Mecanical Thermostat on the evaporator box controls the cutoff temp.(some times theres a little screw you can adjust on older cars)
Nothing like adding atmospheric air to pump up your head pressure. LOL
Your freeze protection or high pressure switch may be kicking on and cycling the compressor. The pressures for propane are higher. Mix isobutane/propane and see if your freeze protection is adjustable. My a/c gets down to the 30's. It's freaking cold.
As far as propane/isobutane mixture, do you mean Jetboil stove gas?
@@matthewstorm5188 I think he means garbage bags
@@matthewstorm5188 It's sold as "R-12a", it's a propane, isobutane mixture. More expensive than propane or 134a, but not too expensive.
enjoyed the content. I did run across a product called Enviro Safe, they claim to be a R 12/ R134 combo product and from what they claim you do not need to evac the system. Here is a little test I did. I have a 1984 Mercedes 380SL that had an engine swap. When doing so one of the lines was disconnected. All I did was tighten the end, did not evac or even ad oil just added the enviro safe. It runs great and is cool. My 2000 Mercedes S500L was low on freon, I topped it and now come out around 32-38 degrees at the vent thats in central Ca in an ambient temp of over 90 degrees. Ive had great luck with it and the cans average under 7 dollars a can. Great price point. I do not work for them but I am a fan.
I only exclusively use the industrial blend from them in all the R12 car ac's i have restored. works great
The old CAT and John Deere roof-mounted A/C units at one time were charged with propane as ease of availability for farmers and ranchers. When I was working in Alaska as a heavy equipment mechanic in the logging industry all those old MACK's and Freightliners had propane filled A/C for about the same reason, it was cheap and everywhere. HFO-1234yf is essentially a heavier gas than propane, but they share the same cooling properties, unlike propane HFO01234yf does not burn completely as it has three different nonflammable inert gasses. I will say this, no A/C job, no matter what refrigerant is used, should be done with the proper equipment and an understanding of how the systems work, and how the equipment works.
" no A/C job, no matter what refrigerant is used, should be done with the proper equipment"
So, I should NOT use the proper equipment ???
@@mrbrown6421 🤔
@@midas617 Hello sir!
Comma separated phrases like "no matter what refrigerant is used" can be removed from a sentence to check the meaning of the sentence.
Therefore you state:
" no A/C job...should be done with the proper equipment"
And thus my stupid, but correct, reply 2 years ago.
Best wishes, sir.
Mr. Brown
North Central Florida
Some retired Software Engineer who spent too much time writing Military Documents.
if you buy 12a its 90% propane lol and just as flammable
Your are right in the fact that propane IS a much better refrigerant than 134 and also little better than 22 with none of the ozone issues. However bulk propane is prone to have moisture in it which can freeze up in expansion valve. There is a company call Duracool in Canada that makes and sells a propane refrig. For auto's that works excellently....better than any refrigerant I have ever used. Cools better (40F in the vent here is Alabama in August).....only issue I have had its to damn cold.... Lol. Much lower head pressures, less compressor and belt loads....mixes with both oils and 22 and 134 although system will work better if it is totally evacuated....6 .oz = 17.oz of 134 so don't take as much
Life saver man was about to spend 300 on r-12 then I read your comment and ordered duracool 12a it's insane! Near r-12 levels
I got my R12 system charged in Mexico. It is still legal over there.
Nice! Yeah I've heard car repair can be cheaper in Mexico. I think R12 is still "legal" to use here in the US it's just not legal to manufacturer. Browsing some forums tells me that all you need is some sort of license that isn't too expensive and you can buy and recharge R12
@@CtrlAltDefeatTV The R12 itself is very expensive though.
@@CtrlAltDefeatTV Can you use propane in Mexico instead of R-12?
US refrigerant patents do not apply in Mexico.
When DuPont patents expire on refrigerants in the US, they pass laws to make them illegal to use, phase them out, then offer "replacement" refrigerants manufactured and patented by DuPont. The cycle begins again, initiating the countdown until patents expire again.
Its part of the Global Warming scam, and is essentially legalized monopolization of the refrigerant supply manufacturers.
You can't stop it. Best to just buy stock in DuPont, and get on the "profitable side" of the fence.
marshalllhiepler - Amen! You said it, what a scam.
i was wondering if you could do a video on how well the ac in a car works when charged with Helium
Helium will not work as a refrigerant in the pressure range for air conditioning. Don't even think of trying it.
@@lewisbishop6814 roger that
Helium does not phase change under the temperatures and pressures of an automotive AC system. It is used as the working fluid in cryocoolers although it is just the pressure differences of the gas that are used to move heat from one side to the other. I have one of those for making liquid nitrogen.
I had a '93 Ford Tempo that used R134. My '92 was 12. It doesn't state much online on an exact year than early '90's but '94 was the first year it was pretty much standard refrigerant.
I believe you're right, 94 was the year it was required, but some car makers introduced it a few years earlier.
@@CtrlAltDefeatTV in 94 became mandatory. my 1993 audi 90 unfortunately needs r12.
the 1234 that they just came out with is just as dangerous. i have seen this done .done right its fine for ever
But 1234yf is PATENTABLE at $77 per can.
Propane is not.
In Australia we have Hychill brand M30. It is illegal to use in one or more states here. Cheap AC regassing services have used it, sometimes without telling the customer. You need to add PAG oil still but I think the M30 includes it.
Did you evacuate the system or just top up? You can buy it here in Queensland. Hychill website recommend evacuation r12 or r134a , remove oil, flush out system, replace receiver dryer before recharging a/c system. Burson sell it, but they advise not to install in customer's vehicles to cover themselves. Red many good reviews on hychill minus 30 for automotive application. Use a third of hychill minus 30 refrigerant compared to r134a. 600 gram system uses 200 grams. Hychill minus 30 operates at lower pressures, less stress on the compressor. As usual here in the nanny country, industry association, VASA are trying to get it either banned or bring it under the licencing regulation umbrella. They say repairers are getting away with not paying carbon tax. As you can see it's all about screwing more money out of us. The 425 gram cans have no oil. The larger cylinders have oil in them. Hychill recommend SR-500 oil, not poe or pag oil. To pressure flush pipes, condensor & evaporator, hychill recommend using their ECO flush. Cheers from Brisbane.
@@F.Krueger-cs4vk hychill cost v propane? I think it was around 100 bucks to redo with hychill
Ester oil is better. No corrosion like PAG.
Grill propane and refrigerant propane are different due to purity. Grill propane 64% pure were refrigerant propane is 96%. That means less contaminates and moisture. Grill propane moisture will attack metal TXV and Compressor parts in the auto AC system. If you use propane use refrigerant grade propane. Interest in the United States is growing for propane in refrigeration, but is not currently not legal in automobiles.
what type of oil are you using in the AC system? Did you check the oil compatibility with propane?
All refrigerant oils work fine with R290/R600+
What about r12a?
No need to change your oil. It's miscible in propane.
He’s converting it to R-134A after the video. (So he said) Hence the oil change.
How many recorded vehicle fires were caused by propane refrigerant? I wouldn't even bother going to r134a. It is flammable too.
134A is not flamable.
@@danhoyt9961 False. It ignites at 1300 degrees, read the MSDS
What do the Greenphissers say about this Propane deal? i don't want to phiss them off.
R290 is propane refrigerant without the damaging moisture and acids and it is not expensive. Unlike a building, I would think a vehicle would be about as safe a place to use it as any. The amount of and pressure of gasoline in a fuel injected car is far more dangerous. I have no idea how well it works. Normally exit air on an R12 evaporator is more like 40 degrees. R12 is not used as much anymore, but it usually isn't that expensive either. Junk yard and every time an R12 system is replaced, they suck the Freon out of it and save it.
And what happens when there is a leak and someone lights his cigarette.
Boom. Dead. Not a good plan. Just use proper refrigerant.
@@tbone6354 that's bullshit.
Read all the direct tests done in Australia, they use it there where it's HOT.
You're probably hitting a low pressure cutoff switch you want the compressor to run non-stop at idle they should kick off as it sees higher RPMs if it's kicking out at low RPM it will do it more so at higher RPMs this means you have a low charge add more propane and see if you can get those numbers even better
But but but. He's a frefrigetant engineer.
Hey guys. I have an r12 system in my truck and I'm running around 19°f out of the vents. Best case secenario is 12.6°f from the coldest part. Nothing special, just normal for an r12 setup.
Are you saying you still have the r12 or propane?
Nothing like turning your condensate into a block of ice. LOL
Fix your broken temp switch.
@@hotrodray6802 ain't nothin broke. That bitch is dialed the fuck in.
you do know of R12a which is a refrigerant made specific from propane and other ingredients to replace r12
R290 is refrigerant grade propane if I recall correctly. There was a large refrigerated storage facility not too far from me where the whole warehouse was chilled using ammonia as the refrigerant.
You still have it?
My question is, how do you remove r12 oil out ?
When you draw a vacuum on it it pulls all the oil out. They actually have a acid wash flush for the lines if changing to 134A
@@donaldsmith3107 thanks
@@donaldsmith3107 NOt so, when you draw a vacuum,NO oil comes out,none.
That’s weird. Usually a good vacuum draws everything out. I always have to add oil afterwards to the line with a oil charge. The only place it would seem the oil wouldn’t come out is the compressor and the oil you add when you install it. The whole point of the vacuum is to remove all the trash including the old oil from the lines.
Is it possible your unit was already dry on oil?
do you have to turn the propane tank upside down?
Imagine if the system could be configured to use use CO2 You could chill the interior of the vehicle down to antarctic temperatures. I think R134 is isobutane It would be interesting to try n~butane which I think is in the fuel cans for stoves.
The compressor power would be higher. That would not be practical for an ICE engine.
R-134a is Tetrafluoroethane not isobutane
2000 psi
@@JetSettingBotanist K thanks for that info.
I live in southern Ontario, Canada and i have always seen r12 the cheapest one of them all in the stores
Butane is what works best for me in my 1969 Dodge.
Pure butane? N-butane (R600) or isobutane (R600a)? I've been wanting to try pure isobutane (R600a) just out of curiosity to see how well it would work.
@@averyalexander2303 Isobutane is what I used. The Chrysler RV-2 compressor is not compatible with ester or pag oil, as the oil circulated with the refrigerant. The regular mineral oil works best in the old compressor, which has its own oil pump.
actually R290 refrigerant is propane. They say it is a special refrigerant grade of propane.
Had it evacuated. Meaning you let it out?!
I have a buddy with the equipment to evacuate it, R12 is actually worth saving these days.
I recently evacuated my bowels.
Want proof?
@@CtrlAltDefeatTV Probably worth its volume in money.
All those cans are are propane butane
Just keep using propane it is a MUCH better refrigerant than r134a. I am converting an r22 system to propane (r290) later today
There’s not that much propane, and the old and new refrigerant is flammable all the same.
exactly, even if it did catch on fire it'll only last a few moments before it runs out of propane
Well if you get in an accident and someone dies from the fire, it would be man slaughter..
nope new cars today have whats called r1234 and its flammable
@@jonsworld5307 Can you confirm that??? That sounds criminal..
@@josephdupont yes i can just look it up epa made them go to it in new cars starting few years back and if thats not bad in its self epa wanting all older car converted to 12a witch is 90% propane and 10% butane
In a gasoline car the r1234 is probably as flammambe as gasoline.. In diesel car probably the r1234
Propane is the same thing as R-290
Not exactly. R-290 has to be a far more pure form of propane. It is the difference between kerosene and jet fuel.
Will some jet engines function on kerosene? Yes, but they would not like it & up in the air, you do not want any "maybe's" LOL.
@@MikinessAnalog If you computerized jet engines have a program for kerosene and there isn't stuff that can clog your fuel filters, then all jet engine hardware could run on kerosene... With commercial air transport you simply cannot run anything else than jet-A of course..
Just run the propane. If it works, don't "fix" it!
R-290 is an extreme pure form of propane and putting everyday propane in the line would eventually cause the compressor to break down from contaminants and a tiny bit of water regular propane has in it.
@@MikinessAnalog I mean, a functional filter dryer does..........filter and dry. I've been running coleman camp stove propane in an 80s corolla for 3 years.
@@whozaskin3639 I wish you zero issues & problems. It's just I know more about electronics & chemistry than I do about refrigeration.
@@MikinessAnalog facts don't care about feelings, and after 30+ thousand miles the coleman freon kicks ass. Seriously, bud. Big industry can keep it's fluorine atom, and I'll keep my cash.
But you can't get R134a cans any more either. Bugger!
just done badly. will probably screw up the conversion also.
R134 is less harmfull, but also less effective.
Great concept video, I definitely don't recommend this for the love of God. Good luck in all you do in the future.
Yeah the use it in homes too
Many small dorm fridges use it.
look up r12a
better flush that system... remnant mineral oil wont like the pag. use ester oil
I kept the mineral oil in it that an R12 system would normally use
De new cars has 1234 yf is flamable too
Not cold enough for a propane system bud
This AC system was real worn and I didn't really look into what needed to be replaced. But I have had propane AC systems in the past that would get down into the 30's at the vent.
PAG oil plus moisture equals acid.... Good luck.
If you go to an A/C service place in the future after using propane to charge your system make sure you tell the technician that you have propane inside as they will need to use different equipment due to the flammability.
Well too late to say this but don’t use PAG on a system that had mineral oil. Use POE.
Also, it’s cycling likely because propane pressures are getting out of hand. Things like Freeze12 were 50/50 Isobutane/Propane to lower the pressures.
Depends if it's a pressure drop switch or a direct temp switch
Could make a front end collision kind of fun like a movie scene where car blows up. Lol Thank you though. Makes you think about other possibilities to. My old camper has a refrigerator that uses ammonia.
there is only a small amount in there
Was thinking the same as force311999, there are only a few ounces total in there so it would be more of a puff than a bang.
About as dangerous as a can of hair spray in the car. never mind the 20 gallons of gas under high pressure.
R12 is also flamable
bax442 no it is not
@@jantrammelant it is and when burned it turns to fosjene gas, very deadly Burning refrigerant in an open flame creates Phosgene gas. A very toxic gas which has been used as a weapon in past wars. In this case, carbonyl fluoride, the flourine equivalent of phosgene (carbonyl chloride), from burning R410a.Aug 20, 2010
Last time I checked r12 is just as volatile as propane
Being from a border state we seen alot of cars burt up on the interstate. It is believed that there was some cheep Mexican r12 being used. So it definitely works as a refrigerant and I have a few old vehicles I just use 134 and had no issues as I was used to paying from 90-120 for a 30lb tank. Without changing the hoses a 12 system will eventually leak. Usually needing a little recharge every year. But now 134 is out of control also so maybe illl do propane and just add fire extinguishers.
im calling the feds
F
And what happens when there is a leak and someone lights his cigarette.
Boom. Dead.
R134 conversion systems suck ass. Id have just got r12. Cools 500 times better.
Never ever used R-12 is getting more worse envorinment
Larry Paul Burnett
You're a completely brainwashed dumbass.
@@dontblameme6328 Used Duracool
Thank Dupont for this
Who gives a fuck 😂
**=** Omg, it is dangerous to use propane for air conditioning, heating causes slow pyrolysis, idk.