I did this to my 1992 Dodge pickup in 2007. Nice ice cold AC still in 2018, and I've never touched it since the initial charge... The R12 never got this cold, and every year I had to recharge it. No change in oil, because propane blends perfectly. Try it, you will NOT be disappointed!
@@TheBloodcleaner I didn't change a thing. Didn't even add more oil. I just added propane on top of what was left in the system Still works excellent. Last year, I charged a GE window AC with propane, and it works flawlessly. (enjoying it at this moment) No retrofit, no evacuation, didn't change a thing... just added propane from a green Coleman tank I bought at Walmart's sporting goods dept. I kept feeling the low side tube, and when it gets (and stays) cold to the touch, she's good.
@@dukebacher1216 Thanks man , i heard LPG gas is better guys here are running it all the time even in house split systems ...thats what they used before R12 and 134a ;-)
Ive been doing this for years too. My setup is quite simple: a Bernzomatic torch head on a can of camp gas. I unscrewed the torch head off the brass pipe and that left me with an open threaded pipe and the torch valve. I got a 1/4 brass female hose barb and it screwed right on. I then cut a guaged R134 hose off an old recharge can and hose clamped it to the barb. Hook up R134 fitting to the low side, start car and then slowly open torch valve. Youll see the needle swing and the torch head start to ice up. shake bottle every now and then and it takes a while to fill, maybe 10 minutes. turn it off when the needle is in the green zone. Voila! cold azz air for about 3 bucks.
@@TonyHerson Weight for weight, it cools many times better. Simple answer to that is to charge by pressure &/or feel not weight, that way it's less hard on the system too. (weigh in a "factory" charge but using 290 and you'll have head pressure through the roof, risk of blowing lines/evaporators etc) You do need lubricant in the system, just the same as what's specced for your compressor.
I know this is an ancient post. Propane has WAY too much pressure for a given temperature for an R-12 system. Propane is an actual, recognized refrigerant, R-290. It is pretty close to R-22 in its temp/pressure curves, which is why for R-12 replacement you need isobutane to temper it..
Do hydrocarbon refrigerants cool much more efficiently than standard (halocarbon CFC, HCFC, HFC) refrigerants? I noticed these new refrigerators that come with R-600 or R-290 cool quicker and more efficiently (or as some say, are "colder")
@@filter4now They do! R290 is about 10% more efficient at transferring heat than older refrigerants and provides a wider thermal range during operation. Copelands ZH series of compressors with R290 show an impressive gain of performance vs. the R410A and R407C/R134a based compressors that even renders their EVI (Enhanced Vapor Injection) obsolete which is great because it makes the circuit simpler. The refrigerant-lobby obviously hates this which, is why they are spreading propaganda about all the _"Unbearable dangers of hydrocarbon based refrigerants"_ . Back in the early 90s when R134a was supposed to become the new standard for domestic refrigerators, Foron in cooperation with Greenpeace released the first commercially available fridge with R600a (Isobutane) as an refrigerant. The +50,000 orders immediately silenced all the critics from the industry that believed that it would be too dangerous and wouldn't work in general. Foron being the peoples-company for fridges in East-Germany, always used hydrocarbon based refrigerants because there were no alternatives available within the Warsaw Pact.
@@yaboidustin2447 No more flammable than gasoline in a fuel line, plus, unlike freon, I can smell rotten eggs when I have a leak (which I haven't yet, AC worked great today).
R 290 is used in all grocery store refrigerator's and coolers , so relax people its just propane . my 1991 GMC runs on propane and I use it for A/C as well . there all flammable .
Does anyone know the equation for how much propane to put in their system I read online a 40 to 50% reduction from how many grams you’re supposed to put in it.
Did this in my 91.5 dodge Cummins. Calls for 42oz r-12 I added 24oz r-290 after replacing a bad line and pulling a vacuum and it works great. I used mineral oil as lubricant. If it’s 95 out the temp at the vent will be 45.
Considering this myself. I have a 92 W250 Cummins. Would you might kinda walking me through what you did? Pretty sure my compressor clutch is shot... but I was thinking of charging it with some Coleman propane just to see if it would work a little. The compressors for our trucks are expensive!
@@james10739 That's excellent! Remember, AC system is designed to throttle @ 38° F Because if your A C. WENT TO 20°F. YOUR inside unit (evaporator) would become a giant blick of ice.
Only use 33% propane of the 134A weight. Example: 12 Oz. Of 134A Use 4 or 5 Oz. Of propane. Low pressure side about 10 psi or 15 psi at 2,000 rpm (engine). High side 150 psi. Use R-290 Refrigerant chart. (Google)
Glad I live close to Mexico. I just drive my truck over have it topped off with R12 and drive home. Been doing that since Billy boy and crew banned R12 in the USA.
R-12 was never outlawed for replacement use or sale, just in new applications. No need to drive to Mexico, no matter how close. Plenty of R-12 available, especially when you wrote this. OTOH, a great excuse to spend time over the border, I love to do so!
+Steven Elliott - Try this cheap fix! Follow all your " Hoses " and open it up and replace the " O'Rings " on them. Make sure ALL the connectors have the " O'Ring " replaced! That is what I did to my Dad's truck and now it's not leaking anymore. I got the " O'Rings " at Harbor Freight for $5.00 and it has all the sizes I needed!
Jordan Bronson - That’s great unless it’s leaking from the compressor, condenser, evaporator, expansion valve, accumulator, receiver/drier or manifold hoses.
I've done this to my 97 gmc yukon because the A/c sucks on these trucks and I live in Arizona. Propane really does work well but there two issue I've had with this setup . First is when its really hot out about 110 and hotter , when idling for more than a few minutes the head pressure climes to high and the high pressure side switch activates and cycles off you compressor until you start moving again. Second issue is when at highway speeds even on the hottest of days my evaporator would freeze causing really bad vent air flow to come out of the vents due to the evap being frosty .
Interesting, thanks for sharing. What kind of propane did you use? If you didn't use refrigerant grade propane (R290), that could be part of why the head pressure is so high. Fuel grade propane isn't pure and the air, moisture, and other noncondensable gases will cause high head pressure by taking up space in the condenser, basically making it smaller. This will make the problem of propane already running at much higher pressures than R12/R134a even worse. If the condenser is dirty or not getting good airflow, that can contribute too.
@@averyalexander2303 The grade of propane isn't the issue. The head pressure increases because PROPANE HAS A VERY HIGH TEMP/PRESSURE CURVE. Very close to R-22. That's why if you want to use it to replace R-12 properly, it must be mixed with about 10% isobutane.
@@frequentlycynical642 Yup, I also mentioned that. At 70 degrees, R12 is at about 70 PSI while propane is at about 120 PSI. I have used refrigerant grade propane as a replacement for R22 in a window AC about 8 years ago and it's still running great. Companies actually tried selling propane as a replacement for R22 and calling it R22a, but the EPA put a stop to that. In other countries, I believe they are still doing this. I also have to wonder if R22's properties being so similar to propane was a coincidence or if the entire goal was to create a refrigerant with the properties of propane but without the flammability.
What type of pressure can you get with propane? My house a/c takes a gas similar boiling point to propane. But when I tried this method nothing came out. Either the valve kept stopping it thinking it was leaking or the tank was empty..
We used to flush A/C systems with propane and a flushing agent before retrofitting to R134.... the idea was to dump the gas rapidly through a heated coil in an urn to boil off the gas and separate the oil. By the sound coming from that compressor I dont think it will last long.
+Ex Sparky this compressor was on its last legs anyways so i used this to try it out. The PO when he replaced the compressor never put oil into the system and i had it lock up on me. I got it to break loose and added oil to it and propane instead of retro fitting or r12 to see how much longer it could last and how cold it would get. Managed to get to -3°C on that system and actually lasted 2 more years. When i sold the truck i removed the propane and told the buyer about it and it was up to him how he wanted to deal with it.. 4 month later after selling it he said he just filled it again with propane and has been working great.
+Brett Collins haha thanks, had a tire that was separating at the belts and decided to burn it away. i do have a 14 bolt with 4:10 gears and the factory gov lock, centripetal force locking rear end to replace the 3:55s thats in it already as these gears suck for towing anything thou
Propane has a higher vapor pressure than R12 at any given temperature. Therefore, one should use caution when charging a vehicle with propane. The pressures which exist in the system, especially when hot, will be substantially higher than with R12. This increases the chances of hose and/or line rupture. The best hydrocarbon mix to substitute for R12 is propane/isobutane (also sold as HC-12a). The mixture has a lower vapor pressure, and so is safer and more suitable than straight propane.
But that stuff is $300 a bottle versus a $20 bottle of propane. I know what you mean about higher pressure I find that I break evaporators more often with propane then 134
backpacker stove/camp fuel is a mix of butane and propane, probably for the precise reason that it can be stored in a thinner lighter weight bottle. I wonder if this would be really close to HC-12a?
Bought a whole refill kit, but now find the r134a and other gasses aren't available any longer. Been banned here in Australia due to it's pollution properties Quite relieved to know about this R290 as replacement gas
Propane is nowhere near the temp/pressure curve of R-134a. With 10% isobutane, it is virtually identical to R-12, but you don't need that. Are you saying the R-134a is unavailable in Oz, despite millions of cars and small refrigerators using it?
if the system is dry or has been drained it's a good idea to add oil that's recommended on the compressor, when I replaced my pump a couple years ago I drained the oil and refilled it. for a recharge I'd say to buy 1 can of AC oil an add it in than fill the system with the propane. the oil is usually only $10 for the can at most Walmart.
R-129? WTF? A few seconds into the video. I ran 90% propane, 10% butane in my Jeep twenty years ago. Brazed up a couple of adapters. At the time there was a huge amount of interest and information on the intertubes about this because of the increasing difficulty to get R-12 at a decent price. When R-12 was outlawed, owners of old cars went into a tail spin based on a lot of misguided "expert" opinion. The biggest one was that you have to change every hose and o-ring to compatible rubber compounds. What no one counted on was that the original mineral oil lube coated all the parts so that they didn't leak. R-134a needed a different rubber to avoid leaks.
No refrigerant has lube in it. Honest to goddess, really? But to answer your question, R-290 (propane) is compatible with all of the common refrigerant oils.
Propane is flammable, but also is r1234yf under pressure which is used in newer vehicles now. One thing I would suggest is to pull a 500 micron vacuum. Incase of compressor failure and internal arcing of metal scrapping inside.
+lookItsJayden ya this was a first test run to see how well it would work, needed a new compressor and dryer so i wanted to just test it as simply as i could, since than the compressor was replaced, the dryer, a proper vacuum pulled and proper manifold gauges were use to recharge again with propane, and to be honest it was cold enough that i froze a soda can on the dash during a road trip a couple weeks ago and exploded on the windshield
ya ive used that before too, so far ive found propane still works the best for a replacement, and as you said r12 is also just as flamable so not worried about and fire or explosions,
Aarons Automotive i have a 2007 Chevrolet C4500 shuttle bus can this be used in the a.c system? Just wondering i heard that r12 is the best,just realized how much good use propane can be
Yes you can, did many recharges this summer including an 07 yukon, 2011 gmc sierra duramax, 96 dodge cummims, 2010 holland combiner. The little beer fridge in my garage, and on a class a diesel motohome ac system on the engine, along withits 2 roof top ac umits. So it should work on the c4500 shuttle bus as well
Actually running less refrigerant makes the system run colder because the pressures are lower, that's why AC units freeze up when the refrigerant charge is low. If the evaporator is freezing up that means you actually need to add more refrigerant to bring the pressure up so the evaporator runs at a higher temp. The problem is that an R12 system isn't made to handle the pressure of propane (R290), so if you add enough refrigerant to get the suction pressure high enough that the evaporator will run at above freezing (54 PSI or higher) the system may flood back and destroy the compressor since it's not designed to run on propane. Also, the high side pressure will be way too high and could destroy the compressor, blow a hose, etc, which could end very badly when the system is full of flammable gas.
@@sparc5 Yeah there's no doubt that propane could work great as a refrigerant if the system was designed for it, but retrofitting an R12 system to use propane is a bad idea. Propane's pressures are very similar to R22. Most of the hydrocarbon R12/R134a replacement blends are a blend of 60% propane and 40% isobutane to bring the pressures down to a more appropriate level for R12/R134a systems. If someone is comfortable with using a flammable refrigerant in their AC system, using a blend designed for the purpose like Duracool or Envirosafe would be a much better idea than straight propane (R290).
I don't have so much of a prob with propane per se.....but you should be doing some other basics. Like have a proper manifold gauge set so you can monitor high side and low side pressure. Also, putting a measured amount of refrigerant to meet vehicle specs would be best. Too much can be worse than not enough.
i don't know if they weigh the same. not sure if the original weight value might be much help. one could judge charge levels based on in and out temps at the evaporator however.
I put 60psi (low side, compressor on) in and it works, same as R134 at 90F. Is there a conversion table for R134 to R290 weight? I know large cooler display cases only take 5.5oz of R290.
How much propane would you use in such an operation? One thing about the propane, its cheap. $25 for 9 kg bottle and you'll use less than a litre which should last yrs ( providing you've no leaks)
I'm interested in this but I got a concern. Doesn't propane sold for cooking or heating in cylinders contain water? I'm planning on doing this but I'm going to put one of those descicant filters between the tank and fitting.
I use the propane in smaller bottles for camping at Walmart. They usually don't have the water you would find in propane cylinders when you refill them. They even sell a butane/propane mix in a 11.5 oz can.
@@RacingRocks12 What is your source for claiming that small propane cylinders have less water? Do you really think that they come from different sources? Both want the cheapest possible, which might include water.
@@frequentlycynical642 I used to work in a facility that bottled them. We had many tests to check the moisture content in the propane after it went through a drying process prior to our filling machine. Moisture would cause damage to our smaller nozzles used to fill the cylinders, therefore all propane went through a drying process to keep maintenance costs at a minimum.
@@frequentlycynical642 the dryer in the AC system is only for miniscule amounts of moisture that may get in the system. It would become logged with water if you filled it with propane. You may get lucky and get dryer propane where you live, however if you got some propane as I did the other day for my stove, nothing in that AC system could dry it out.
So I'm a total fan of form follows function whatever works awesome but with that said what happens if a seal goes bad and starts leaking and you have hot manifolds or a failing spark plug wire?... boom or fire? Why not just use Duster it's super cheap?
+all the boost thats the thing, r12 and r134 are also both just as flammable as propane but are used in cars. Odd of a leak catching fire due to hot exhaust are very slim unless the manifold if glowing red got, and very rare to see a spark plug wire ark out unless its damaged, and even than, itll ark/short on the closest patch to ground ie any metal closest to the damaged wire, with the AC lines being pretty far away from all that its slim to none and the air flow in the engine bay from the radiator fan alone is enough to disrupt the proper air/fuel ratio for a leak to sustain any flame. But a very valid point made, and yes, an air duster is cheap to use as well... but it propellant is liquid oxegen, which is in any form of a fire will just feed/fuel a small flame 10 fold. And for the reason of the BBQ tank was expired and couldn't be refilled so figured id use it up any way i could before turning the empty tank i to an air tank.
@@AaronsAutomotive My god, the ignorance! R-12 and R-134a are NOT flammable under most circumstances, let alone like propane. I hope you don't parent or vote.
I would use the R12 orifice tube as the r134a tube are a lot less restrictive and have found that it tends to lead to a lot of freeze ups, with the r12 tube being slightly more restrictive it can regulate the pressure a little better and keep the system from freezing on up when the fan speed is set on mediums/low or on the free way.
@@AaronsAutomotive Woops - no; R134a discharge pressure is significantly higher than R12 (about 15% higher or so) which means the R12 orifice tube is less restrictive than the R134a orifice tube.
kitschy llamasf i had modified the fitting to fit with a regular propane tank, and once the propane tank is flipped upside down and air is purged from the line than the liquid propane is allowed to flow. as long as it doesnt come into contact it the atmosphere it will remain a liquid and flow thru the lines as such under pressure. think of it as your water lines in the house. even thou there are multiple bends and elbows in the copper piping, as long as there isnt a restriction in the line the water will continue to flow as long as you have pressure.
kitschy llamasf as for that part of the system that has the needle to pierce the can, it has a rubber gasket inside of it, when the fitting is tightened ( as if you were piercing the can) it will prevent any gas or fluid to flow, lossen the end as if using a can and it will open the valve allowing the fluid to flow thru
Thnx Aaron,Notice your minus the bbq regulator which might cause propane liquid restriction through the line.Was also noticing how small the orifice is on the left threaded propane adapter is.Is that what you are using on the propane tank with needle size orifice left threaded?
kitschy llamasf yes, all it is is the left handed thread sandard bbq fitting, and threaded onto the R134 refill kit hose. once the tank is upside down the liquid propane will flow out of the tank and into the AC system without issues or restrictions as only about 0.75 (3/4) of a pound of propane is needed to fill. so as long as there is atleast 2 pounds of propane in the tank it will fill the AC.
Hey Bro,will this work with any type of R 12 system? Like a 1978 Ford,Mercury product with a 351M ? I have R 12 but Propane is cheaper that pissing away any R 12 if it is going to leak out,unless I fix the leak.So,what you think,Yea or Nea,,,,Thank s for your time,mark..
Propane is a R290 not R129. R600a is a isobutane. In Poland (and all UE) we have R134a only to 2023 :(. Now R134a is 400% more expensive then in last year. :(
@@johninmilford7719 Indeed, because we're not running round in tin boxes with gallons of highly flammable liquids in already right? But what about in a crash, all that propane escaping? How about putting a match to some antifreeze, or transmission fluid though, both of those run through the vulnerable cooling system at the front of the vehicle too. (What I'm saying is, R290 is flammable/explosive in the right proportions to air, but so are many other fluids in a vehicle. Common sense applied using 290= no more or less danger than before in my considered opinion)
@@danmackintosh6325 The difference is; is it flammable, or EXPLOSIVE? You'd think that a car being mostly made of metal wouldn't burn much. BUT WOW! They burn!! During the Boston demonstration a Police cruiser was ignited. 30 foot flames for almost an hour, and the fire department had a hard time putting it out. I still wouldn't want MAPP, or Propane, or Butane in my Auto AC. While excellent refrigerants, they all seem to leak and why take the chance.
@@johninmilford7719 not to mention all the vehicles that are on the road that are STILL liquid propane or compressed natural gas powered.... a little in the AC isn't something to be worried about.
R32? No, that's a totally different gas with much higher pressures. R22 can be replaced with R290 and the system will work great, I did that with my old window AC years ago and it still works perfectly. However, I can't recommend replacing R22 with propane because of its flammability, if it leaks the gas could catch fire or explode.
@@Tugboatpb Nope. R22 is the only common refrigerant that can be replaced with straight propane (R290) with good results. But as I said, I wouldn't recommend doing so because it is a flammable gas. R32 is a totally different refrigerant that runs at much higher pressures and has much different properties when compared to R22 or R290 (propane), so I can't imagine that propane (R290) would work too well as a replacement for it.
i need help i got a chevy s10 1991 no aircondition only heat can i just add a/c refrigerant without removing old oil or what eva is in there ebay sell r12 refrigerant so i dont have to convert it to r13
regular propane in propane bottles is mixed with some kind of sulfur stuff to make it smell when there is a leak.. because pure propane has no smell.. I don´t know if this sulfur stuff is good inside an AC system...what does it do to the oil, and sulfur+moisture = acid...ok maybe doesn´t matter in such an old vehicle
Thats why you pull a vacuum and use a drier. No moisture, Also propane is a very dry gas, there is no moisture in there or else it would freeze up the valve.
the stinky gas is ethyl mercaptan, not pure sulfur, it won’t be an issue and the quantity in propane is very minute. Humans can smell it in concentrations as low as 2 PPB, so even a tiny amount is very pungent.
It would need the correct Stoichiometric ratio of gas and air to go boom. Since there is only GAS in the lines thanks to the vacuum pump that seems very very unlikely.
Yes - correct, always charge vapor on low side when there is no accumulator present. This guy was okay charging liquid on low side because he was charging directly into the accumulator. The compressor CANNOT compress a liquid so damage is inevitable if liquid goes directly to it.
The biggest problem I see with doing this, besides the potential fire/explosion hazard if you aren't careful, is lubrication. You need oil in the system. That being said, you can run your truck on propane, and run the AC on propane. You can light your home with propane, run your fridge on propane. Cook with propane. Heat your home and water with propane. Propane has a lot of uses.
+Mark R - The US is adopting " Propane " slowly and no doubt on many usage. But still I am scared in Cars / Trucks! But if House Hold AC, it's perfectly fine since less movements except for " Lightning / Electrical Shocks ". But Commercial AC has been using Propane for a long time now.
Steve Wander - Refrigerant oil circulates WITH the refrigerant. If you have a refrigerant leak, you are also losing oil. Eventually, after multiple top- offs, you will suffer the consequences of low oil level. By the sound this dudes compressor was making I’m guessing he will have found this out by now.
@@68pishta68 That's not true. Oil is "miscible" in refrigerant, so it carries the oil all the way through the system to keep all of the seals oiled and keep the oil going from intake to exhaust of the compressor. Some oils are more or less miscible in the refrigerant depending on the system/refrigerant used. PAG oil will actually leak out with the refrigerant, but only a portion of it will be lost per charge. Makes it really hard to ensure you have the proper oil level in your refrigeration system. Too much oil will gum/clog the orifice/TXV and not enough oil will cause premature failure of the seals and compressor.
Not a good idea. I'm not going to get into weather filling the system with propane is dangerous, but I will say that using fuel grade propane sure isn't a good idea. Fuel grade propane is far from pure, and can cause problems. If you are aware of the risks and want to try this, use R290 instead, which is refrigerant grade propane. It's pure propane, so there shouldn't be any air, moisture, odorant, or other contaminants to cause issues in the system.
@@68pishta68 R290 is cheap compared to the compressor failing from contamination and sending metal debris through the entire system. If that happens you will need to remove and flush every component in the system, including the evaporator behind the dash. Envirosafe R134a Substitute is can be had for less than $5 a can on eBay and works better than straight propane with lower pressures. It's illegal to use in an R12 system in the US, but so is propane. I'm glad you haven't had problems with this yet, but just because you haven't doesn't mean other people won't. Also, fuel grade propane is easier to ignite than a more pure gas, it will ignite at around 800 degrees F compared to Envirosafe's R134a replacement which won't ignite until about 1300 degrees F.
@@68pishta68if you're in the US, envirosafe industrial r134a substitute is what you need, 12 bucks a can. for elsewhere, care 30/hychill is 20 usd a can. pretty cheap
@@edbo10 I've used Envirosafe Industrial R134a Replacement with good results. Since it's a mix of propane (R290) and isobutane (R600a), its pressures are much lower than straight propane and much more suitable for R12 and R134a systems. Propane's pressures are actually very similar to R22, so it works well in R22 systems.
@@68pishta68 You missed the whole point of the video, which was about R12 systems. If you have an R134a system, there's not much reason to use anything else with R134a being available for about $5 a can. If you have an R12 system, R134a is NOT compatible unless you remove the entire system, flush all the old oil out and replace with PAG or ester, replace the seals, install a compatible desiccant, and install R134a fittings. And after all that work, you end up with a system that doesn't work as well as it did.
After I did this, I went on an 8 hour road trip with a couple friends, didn't think anything of it and left a can of coke on the dash on top of the vent, it was FREEZING cold, haha, we were all shivering inside but with temps outside being +45c (115F) we happily took the cold AC, well.... my can of coke froze, and exploded open all over the dash and windshield
@@AaronsAutomotive Awesome. R-12 not only damaged the ozone, it also has a GWP (Greenhouse Equivalent) to CO2 of 8100. This means for the 2lbs of R12 used in a typical car, it would be equivalent to 8 tons of CO2 or driving about 50,000 miles. R134A has GWP of 1430 They are building new refrigerators and freezers with special compressors to use R290 (Propane) and R600A (Isopentane) - and they could have used this THE WHOLE TIME? I used to think (as they claimed) that if you got into an accident breaking the evaporator with your system charged with propane - your face would be burnt off from the flames. This isn't enough propane to do so. I would recommend someone use a vacuum pump to remove all oxygen and not use R290 in a hermetic compressor (like on your refrigerators) unless designed for it. (Remember on "Fight Club" the scene with the theory of his apartment?)
propane is NOT R129. Its actually R290. There is no such refrigerant as R129. But i see nothing wrong with this set up. I have propane running in my brothers 22 year old R22 system. been running for 3 yrs. originally took 4 lbs of r22, but now its only 2ish lbs of propane. Has had ZERO issues and very cold air!
Not if you charge by pressure instead of weight... Damn if you applied a full weight charge of R290 in an R12/134a system I'd fully expect it to pop off, but if you keep the pressures sensible/only charge until system pulls down to temp in a reasonable timeframe then likely it'd be fine.
@@danmackintosh6325 no the correct procedure is to know the amount of weight of R290 to charge into the system instead of R12. Just because they both work with mineral oil does not mean they react the same. Charging off of pressure is a terrible idea.
@@mikewalker225 True I guess, but charging on pressure works for me. (mind, I do tend to charge on the hottest of days so it's not likely to run higher)
@@mikewalker225 actually charging off weight only is a terrible idea.especially if you're changing to a refrigerant that the condenser and evaporator are not engineered for. Charging to a specified weight is just and guidance to get you in the ballpark. When you get close to your charged weight you then use your temperature probes and do the math to figure your superheat and subcooling based on ambient temperature. I never weigh in a full charge I get somewhere around 30 to 50% depending on the size of the system and start looking at the temperature probes. Normally the weight in sticker is pretty close but just last fall I had one that was off by 4 pounds from factory. The 6-year-old system had never worked right since the day it was installed according to the owner and never cooled properly and they had complained about it several times service guys come out and did warranty work never really fixing the problem. Finally the compressor died we evacuated the system into a empty tank finding it was right on according to the sticker. After replacing the compressor and recharging the system we found we the system was fully charged and operational at the right temperatures but 4 pounds short of the sticker. Looking at the service records there was notes that they could never get their temperatures correct even a note from one guy I said the system look to be overcharged but he had evacuated it and wait it back in and it was right on the factory weight he drew four question marks after that statement on the service ticket. So I would say he was confused as to why but never followed up. My thoughts here on this propane charge of a pickup truck and yes the system has more pressure on it now to make propane work with the system design is it going to be a little harder on the compressor then the original factory refrigerant probably. Would something like r152a computer duster work better for a relatively low investment without the need for a license to buy it definitely because it would run at a lower pressure it would agree with the oil in the compressor and it would perform about like r12 and probably a lot colder than r134a. What's the important thing is it would run with less pressure on that old system. But this guy's video was to show people that you could use propane and it would work and for that I guess I still have to give him an A. Lots of other people have done videos on r152a not too many people have done videos on propane.
It is an excellent refrigerant but it seems as though I remember my instructor in tech college telling us that it is illegal to do so because back in the 80s there were mechanics working on cars that had been retrofitted with propane and had some bad explosions and injuries occur as a result. It just seems a bit risky to me personally.
And yet the 'new and improved' R1234yr refrigerant is also flammable! Funny how flammability was the reason hydrocarbon refrigerants were not allowed for decades, until suddenly flammability didn't matter.
@@paulmaxwell8851 Not even close to propane. "Yes, 1234YF (also known as HFO-1234yf) is classified as a mildly flammable refrigerant. It falls under the ASHRAE 2L category, which means it has a low flammability rating12. However, it’s important to note that while it is flammable, it does not significantly increase the fire risk in internal combustion engines"
Use what the system is rated for. It was engineered for it! How difficult is this to understand? Now, if you have an R-12 system, simply vacuuming the system, and charging a full can of the R-134a that has the POE oil in it, then topping it to the amount on the nameplate minus 7%, with just R-134a, it works so close to R-12 you really wouldn't know the difference. Here is the reason that they don't work "as well": Lack of proper vacuuming techniques, and lack of the proper oil being added. BOTH need to be done to go from R-12 to R-134a. Engineered correctly, an R-134a system in a newer car will out-perform an old R-12 system running R-12. It looks like you are asking to roll back to R-12 from an engineered system using another refrigerant; you can, but you really shouldn't. Also, some busses, use other refrigerants that are definitely NOT compatible with R-12. An HVAC/R pro would have to guide you on that.
You contradict yourself. R-134a has an average 50% cooling capacity when used in an R-12 system. In order to achieve a retrofit that is even usable, you have to change the orifice tube and the condenser. The reason why cars that were meant to use R-134a can achieve a higher cooling capacity is that they were manufactured with a different orifice tube and a much larger condenser with a different flow pattern. R-134a needs a parallel flow condenser, where R-12 really shines with a single path condenser. Propane is by far not an ideal R-12 replacement, but because of many other molecular characteristics it can massively outperform R-134a in an unmodified system
the saftey jerks get scared using propane as a refrigerant due to automobile accidents but i see 6 ton buses running on natual gas ...as dale and boomhower would say...dango works fine
@@68pishta68 Not a good comparison. Replaing R12 with a flammable refrigerant is illegal, at least in the US. Also, The fuel tank and system is well protected, not right in front of the car like the condenser is. The condenser is the first thing to go in a front end collision. Also, the fuel doesn't run through the inside of the vehicle like the refrigerant does. As unlikely as an evaporator leak is, a cabin full of propane could end very, very badly. I'm not saying don't do it if you want to, just please be aware of the risks if you choose to do something like this.
@S Maksymiv An open flame is not the only possible ignition source inside the vehicle, it is full of electrical components. Switches, relays, motors, faulty wiring, etc could also ignite the gas if it leaked out. Realistically though the risks of an evaporator leak large enough to present a hazard are pretty low though. A decent brush guard may help protect the condenser a bit in an accident, but not enough that I would call filling the system with propane safe. I think the propane would be much more of a danger to the vehicle itself than the occupants though since a fire is most likely to occur under the hood and the only way an under hood fire would endanger the occupants is if they were trapped, but if an accident is severe enough to trap the occupants the refrigerant is probably not going to be the only thing burning and the people inside the vehicle would quite likely be dead anyways.
@S Maksymiv I see your point, but fuel systems are designed specifically to not be compromised in an accident since they contain a flammable liquid or gas. The fuel lines are run towards the center of the vehicle, the tank is a good distance away from the back bumper so it isn't damaged in an accident, the fuel tank has a rollover valve so fuel isn't spilled if the vehicle rolls over, etc. Flammability was not a consideration when the AC system was designed like it is when a fuel system is designed since they aren't designed for flammable gas and therefore a leak isn't expected to create a hazard. The condenser is right in front and can easily be damaged, refrigerant lines are run through vulnerable areas, etc. I can not think of a practical way to design a vehicle's AC system in a way that it is reasonably well protected in an accident since the condenser must go behind the bumper, there really isn't anywhere else to put it where it would be less vulnerable and still receive good airflow. The condenser can also easily be punctured by road debris that hits it such as rocks, this happened to me 2 weeks ago. If the condenser being vulnerable wasn't an issue I would feel much safer about flammable refrigerant and I would agree with you that it is no more dangerous than the propane or gasoline in the fuel system.
@S Maksymiv The fenders are also quite vulnerable. The other problem with that is it wouldn't be as effective. The condenser couldn't be nearly as large as if it was mounted in front of the radiator and the airflow wouldn't be as good. Using ducting to direct airflow would help but also would create aerodynamic drag, which manufacturers avoid at all costs these days. The reduced efficiency of the AC system from a less effective condenser and the increased aerodynamic drag would offset any cost, environmental, or efficiency benefits from using propane. I have seen buses with the condensers mounted underneath and cooled by electric fans, but that certainly wouldn't be practical for passenger vehicles because the ground clearance is much lower.
You can liquid fill on low side, just trickle it in and it'll evaporate before hitting the compressor. Required when charging R410 systems. But for such a small system vapor will work well enough.
Propane is a hydrocarbon, as a liquid it acts exactly the same as hydrocarbon based oil. Many tests have been done, propane is a superior refrigerant in every way except for being very flammable when mixed with oxygen/air. In Europe it is now being used for some automotive and refrigerators and walk in coolers and even some residential systems. More safety systems required, but it has a high latent heat, great thermal conductivity, low global warming potential. (You should look up global warming potential of water vapor vs carbon dioxide, may be a bit surprised) and in its liquid state it is a lubricant. (still a small potential of slugging the compressor and damaging it, but usually it will evaporate enough by the time it gets that far in a compressor itself, it usually has evaporated enough as long as it's not already up to operating pressure/capacity when adding it)
@@RandomPsychic Should be okay, as long as you add it slow enough for it to mostly evaporate before it hits the compressor. On an automotive mechanical compressor, if it slugs the compressor and locks it up, the clutch will slide/give until it evaporates enough to continue. It's a bit hard on the bearings if that happens and a bit hard on the clutch, but not catastrophic. They are cheap enough and easy enough to rebuild or replace that it's not a huge concern either way. In an electric compressor, you risk burning out the windings and that's not cheap at all, and should be avoided if at all possible.
As a licensed HVAC/ R Contractor yes propane has same properties as R-12 .Yes True a refrigeration cooler is making small coolers with that as a refrigerant but all electrical connectors motors are explosion proof . Your truck engine and other items under the hood ARE NOT . No speaking as a former firefighter . You are riding in a BOMB. What happens if you get a leak or God forbid you get into a accident . PLEASE think about the liability you are putting your self into. If this was safe auto makers would be using this.. Thank you. Have a blessed day. Stay safe out there
no kiero pensar si tienes una fuga despues con las mangueras es algo tonto hacer eso arriesgas a tus familia adentro de ese carro nomas por hacerle al vivo
For an r12 replacement a 60/40(by weight) mix of r290/r600a the weight of charge is much less than r 12 but its on line. This mix will work much better than what you are running. Heck if you want to run straight propane, it would be better to run straight r22.
Raise your hand if at any time during this video, you were expecting that truck AND that dude to be blown sky fucking high and then worrying about his truck and his carcass coming down from the sky to land on your single wide. Super fun video, but too scared to try it. I might not like the county I live in, but don't want to be blown into the next county, Just a personal preference. Got to go wrangle a Honey Badger, later.
Look for R134a at Walmart if you have one close by. It's $4.88 for 12oz which is pretty cheap! If you search for 1234yf... Some Cars Manufacture is recalling them since safety was in questioned!
Pretty safe. For propane to go boom, it needs oxygen and a source of ignition. No oxygen, no source of ignition, no boom. Make sure your system has no leaks and nothing should go boom. Even if this little amount leaks, it's not really enough to do too much. Might scare you or catch something on fire.
+Mark R - Hahahahahaha.... Nothing goes boom until there is an accident! Sure, leave your Cars / Trucks at home in your driveway / Garage, it will work! LMFAO !!!
Do you work in the business? I like the way you try to propagate a myth. ALL refrigerants are flammable under pressure. Yes 134 too, you know the stuff that causes cancer to your testicles? Want to know why propane isn't used in the US? It's used all over Europe. Look up a word called PATENT. Nobody owns the patent on propane. Dow Chemical can't get rich selling it. Excuse me now, I have turn off my AC, it's 105 out and blowing 40 degrees in my cab. It's getting a bit too cold in her for me. Yeah, I'm running a blend of propane and butane so the pressures stay close to R-12. What would be better is the AES just designing a system to run on pure propane. My compressor runs at about half the energy it takes to compress R-134a. Keep drinking the cool aid and buying 134a, hahaha.
You are right, nothing cools as good as r12 did. I remember converting an r12 car ac to 134a, it sucked so bad. Figured i would need a better condenser, ended up reclaiming the r134a out of the system after i found some r12.
OIl? Aren’t you going to put any oil in your system? That compressor won’t last very long without a charge of oil first before you put any refrigerant in the system.
I did this to my 1992 Dodge pickup in 2007. Nice ice cold AC still in 2018, and I've never touched it since the initial charge... The R12 never got this cold, and every year I had to recharge it. No change in oil, because propane blends perfectly. Try it, you will NOT be disappointed!
did you change the evaporator first or did you use the old one ??
@@TheBloodcleaner I didn't change a thing. Didn't even add more oil. I just added propane on top of what was left in the system Still works excellent. Last year, I charged a GE window AC with propane, and it works flawlessly. (enjoying it at this moment) No retrofit, no evacuation, didn't change a thing... just added propane from a green Coleman tank I bought at Walmart's sporting goods dept. I kept feeling the low side tube, and when it gets (and stays) cold to the touch, she's good.
@@dukebacher1216 Thanks man , i heard LPG gas is better guys here are running it all the time even in house split systems ...thats what they used before R12 and 134a ;-)
what adapters are you using to get the propane into the AC manifold?
Ive been doing this for years too. My setup is quite simple: a Bernzomatic torch head on a can of camp gas. I unscrewed the torch head off the brass pipe and that left me with an open threaded pipe and the torch valve. I got a 1/4 brass female hose barb and it screwed right on. I then cut a guaged R134 hose off an old recharge can and hose clamped it to the barb. Hook up R134 fitting to the low side, start car and then slowly open torch valve. Youll see the needle swing and the torch head start to ice up. shake bottle every now and then and it takes a while to fill, maybe 10 minutes. turn it off when the needle is in the green zone. Voila! cold azz air for about 3 bucks.
really no issues, see my other post about sulfur etc in the propane
Does propane cool better that r134? Also do you need to add lubricant to the system?
@@TonyHerson Weight for weight, it cools many times better. Simple answer to that is to charge by pressure &/or feel not weight, that way it's less hard on the system too. (weigh in a "factory" charge but using 290 and you'll have head pressure through the roof, risk of blowing lines/evaporators etc) You do need lubricant in the system, just the same as what's specced for your compressor.
I know this is an ancient post. Propane has WAY too much pressure for a given temperature for an R-12 system. Propane is an actual, recognized refrigerant, R-290. It is pretty close to R-22 in its temp/pressure curves, which is why for R-12 replacement you need isobutane to temper it..
@@frequentlycynical642 And that’s why camping has works so well, as it’s usually 20-25 % of propane and rest butane and sometimes 5% of isobutane.
I invented the air conditioner and have a phd in AC engineering. I approve of this method of refrigerant.
lol
I think if accident it is suicide
@@vineetsehgal4738 silly 20 gallons of gasoline vs 16oz of propane i get a kick out the fear of it 40 percent r600 add helps with the r290
Do hydrocarbon refrigerants cool much more efficiently than standard (halocarbon CFC, HCFC, HFC) refrigerants? I noticed these new refrigerators that come with R-600 or R-290 cool quicker and more efficiently (or as some say, are "colder")
@@filter4now They do! R290 is about 10% more efficient at transferring heat than older refrigerants and provides a wider thermal range during operation.
Copelands ZH series of compressors with R290 show an impressive gain of performance vs. the R410A and R407C/R134a based compressors that even renders their EVI (Enhanced Vapor Injection) obsolete which is great because it makes the circuit simpler.
The refrigerant-lobby obviously hates this which, is why they are spreading propaganda about all the _"Unbearable dangers of hydrocarbon based refrigerants"_ .
Back in the early 90s when R134a was supposed to become the new standard for domestic refrigerators, Foron in cooperation with Greenpeace released the first commercially available fridge with R600a (Isobutane) as an refrigerant. The +50,000 orders immediately silenced all the critics from the industry that believed that it would be too dangerous and wouldn't work in general.
Foron being the peoples-company for fridges in East-Germany, always used hydrocarbon based refrigerants because there were no alternatives available within the Warsaw Pact.
You're a lifesaver, man. My good old 93 Chevy dually is like a freezer now! So awesome to have ac back in my work truck. Thanks so much.
It's also a bigger bomb now
@@yaboidustin2447 No more flammable than gasoline in a fuel line, plus, unlike freon, I can smell rotten eggs when I have a leak (which I haven't yet, AC worked great today).
@@guerrillaradio9953 do they add the smelling agent to r-290? Propane by itself doesn't smell
@@MrRightNow no, R290 is 99.999 pure. no smell added.
@@guerrillaradio9953if you can smell your propane it’s not refrigerant grade, the added compound is corrosive… so how’s the ac looking?
R 290 is used in all grocery store refrigerator's and coolers , so relax people its just propane . my 1991 GMC runs on propane and I use it for A/C as well . there all flammable .
Did this years ago in a 77 chevy, worked good for years, still working when the truck was sold.
I hope you mentioned your work around to the buyer.
I have been using propane for 30 years in my autos works better than 134 and never had any problems.
will it work in a r134 system with the pag oil?
Does anyone know the equation for how much propane to put in their system I read online a 40 to 50% reduction from how many grams you’re supposed to put in it.
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932 yes it even would work with the old mineral compressor lubricant but also works with PAG
Hank Hill loves you.
ishootstuff 😂😂 he sure does!
Not really lol r290 is not a fuel propane does not have odorant in it
Did this in my 91.5 dodge Cummins. Calls for 42oz r-12 I added 24oz r-290 after replacing a bad line and pulling a vacuum and it works great. I used mineral oil as lubricant. If it’s 95 out the temp at the vent will be 45.
Considering this myself. I have a 92 W250 Cummins. Would you might kinda walking me through what you did?
Pretty sure my compressor clutch is shot... but I was thinking of charging it with some Coleman propane just to see if it would work a little. The compressors for our trucks are expensive!
Use 33% propane, Not 50%
Use 14 or 15 Oz.
Will cool better and use Less horsepower to turn the compressor.
My 04 chevy obviously with 134a will do like 40° when it's over 100° outside so I'm not sure how impressive that is
@@james10739
That's excellent!
Remember, AC system is designed to throttle @ 38° F
Because if your A C. WENT TO 20°F. YOUR inside unit (evaporator) would become a giant blick of ice.
Only use 33% propane of the 134A weight.
Example: 12 Oz. Of 134A Use 4 or 5 Oz. Of propane.
Low pressure side about 10 psi or 15 psi at 2,000 rpm (engine).
High side 150 psi.
Use R-290 Refrigerant chart. (Google)
Low side 10 psi.. ur dumb.. thats -20.. dipstick
Yup I helped my friend do the same thing with his 85 F150. The AC blows insanely cold!!
I used computer duster in a r410a dehumidifier it worked quite well
Glad I live close to Mexico. I just drive my truck over have it topped off with R12 and drive home. Been doing that since Billy boy and crew banned R12 in the USA.
R-12 was never outlawed for replacement use or sale, just in new applications. No need to drive to Mexico, no matter how close. Plenty of R-12 available, especially when you wrote this. OTOH, a great excuse to spend time over the border, I love to do so!
Have used this method all summer. Works a treat when you have a piece of junk and it keeps leaking out every month. Nice n cold. Great hack mate
+Steven Elliott
- Try this cheap fix! Follow all your " Hoses " and open it up and replace the " O'Rings " on them. Make sure ALL the connectors have the " O'Ring " replaced! That is what I did to my Dad's truck and now it's not leaking anymore. I got the " O'Rings " at Harbor Freight for $5.00 and it has all the sizes I needed!
Jordan Bronson - That’s great unless it’s leaking from the compressor, condenser, evaporator, expansion valve, accumulator, receiver/drier or manifold hoses.
I've done this to my 97 gmc yukon because the A/c sucks on these trucks and I live in Arizona. Propane really does work well but there two issue I've had with this setup . First is when its really hot out about 110 and hotter , when idling for more than a few minutes the head pressure climes to high and the high pressure side switch activates and cycles off you compressor until you start moving again. Second issue is when at highway speeds even on the hottest of days my evaporator would freeze causing really bad vent air flow to come out of the vents due to the evap being frosty .
Interesting, thanks for sharing. What kind of propane did you use? If you didn't use refrigerant grade propane (R290), that could be part of why the head pressure is so high. Fuel grade propane isn't pure and the air, moisture, and other noncondensable gases will cause high head pressure by taking up space in the condenser, basically making it smaller. This will make the problem of propane already running at much higher pressures than R12/R134a even worse. If the condenser is dirty or not getting good airflow, that can contribute too.
@@averyalexander2303 The grade of propane isn't the issue. The head pressure increases because PROPANE HAS A VERY HIGH TEMP/PRESSURE CURVE. Very close to R-22. That's why if you want to use it to replace R-12 properly, it must be mixed with about 10% isobutane.
@@frequentlycynical642 Yup, I also mentioned that. At 70 degrees, R12 is at about 70 PSI while propane is at about 120 PSI. I have used refrigerant grade propane as a replacement for R22 in a window AC about 8 years ago and it's still running great.
Companies actually tried selling propane as a replacement for R22 and calling it R22a, but the EPA put a stop to that. In other countries, I believe they are still doing this.
I also have to wonder if R22's properties being so similar to propane was a coincidence or if the entire goal was to create a refrigerant with the properties of propane but without the flammability.
Did this years ago with my ‘84 Oldsmobile Delta. You could wear a sweater in that car on a 100degree day. Worked until the day I scrapped her.
thank you for the info,,,,did you need to use special oil?
lol untill the dsay i scrapped her
@@virginsmoker She was putting out until the day she stopped putting out...so he got rid of her. One repair for him was enough for a lifetime I guess.
Thanks so much for this! I can't afford $450 for a 30lb bottle.
What type of pressure can you get with propane? My house a/c takes a gas similar boiling point to propane. But when I tried this method nothing came out. Either the valve kept stopping it thinking it was leaking or the tank was empty..
that air cleaner lid flip is all the cool you need
Super Video, von mir gibt es auch was zu dem Thema... ;-)
We used to flush A/C systems with propane and a flushing agent before retrofitting to R134.... the idea was to dump the gas rapidly through a heated coil in an urn to boil off the gas and separate the oil.
By the sound coming from that compressor I dont think it will last long.
+Ex Sparky this compressor was on its last legs anyways so i used this to try it out. The PO when he replaced the compressor never put oil into the system and i had it lock up on me. I got it to break loose and added oil to it and propane instead of retro fitting or r12 to see how much longer it could last and how cold it would get. Managed to get to -3°C on that system and actually lasted 2 more years. When i sold the truck i removed the propane and told the buyer about it and it was up to him how he wanted to deal with it.. 4 month later after selling it he said he just filled it again with propane and has been working great.
Right on, bro!
love the one-wheel burn out, lol!
+Brett Collins haha thanks, had a tire that was separating at the belts and decided to burn it away. i do have a 14 bolt with 4:10 gears and the factory gov lock, centripetal force locking rear end to replace the 3:55s thats in it already as these gears suck for towing anything thou
Propane has a higher vapor pressure than R12 at any given temperature. Therefore, one should use caution when charging a vehicle with propane. The pressures which exist in the system, especially when hot, will be substantially higher than with R12. This increases the chances of hose and/or line rupture. The best hydrocarbon mix to substitute for R12 is propane/isobutane (also sold as HC-12a). The mixture has a lower vapor pressure, and so is safer and more suitable than straight propane.
atari7001 lpg
+atari7001 - I was going to try " Propane " in my Dad's Truck, but it's hot under the hood... I am too scared, LOL. I went back to R134a, LOL.
But that stuff is $300 a bottle versus a $20 bottle of propane. I know what you mean about higher pressure I find that I break evaporators more often with propane then 134
How does the pressures compare to r134a?
backpacker stove/camp fuel is a mix of butane and propane, probably for the precise reason that it can be stored in a thinner lighter weight bottle. I wonder if this would be really close to HC-12a?
That’s some clean burning propane I tell you what
I like how you have the charge line on top of the batt. feel sorry for anyone that might end up with this truck full of propane.
Where do you find a non regulated hose at? Even the ones without regulators have valves in them to where they only seap propane
I just drill out the orifice in the LPG connector when I need high PSI for a high flow regulator.
"If you want to get down you gotta... check it out - propane'
Bought a whole refill kit, but now find the r134a and other gasses aren't available any longer. Been banned here in Australia due to it's pollution properties Quite relieved to know about this R290 as replacement gas
Did it work. Same problem in nz
Yeah, how’d ya go?
Propane is nowhere near the temp/pressure curve of R-134a. With 10% isobutane, it is virtually identical to R-12, but you don't need that. Are you saying the R-134a is unavailable in Oz, despite millions of cars and small refrigerators using it?
would you have to add some type of oil to the system? i have a 87 honda that uses r12.. i want to get the ac running but cant afford the conversion
if the system is dry or has been drained it's a good idea to add oil that's recommended on the compressor, when I replaced my pump a couple years ago I drained the oil and refilled it. for a recharge I'd say to buy 1 can of AC oil an add it in than fill the system with the propane. the oil is usually only $10 for the can at most Walmart.
thanks... can i use the r12 mineral oil?
+xX_RADIO_ Xx absolutely you can. just follow the directions on it.
cool thanks again!
@@AaronsAutomotive Wrong advice as those oils are NOT compatible with R-12. As the can's hose fitting should clue you in.
R-129? WTF? A few seconds into the video.
I ran 90% propane, 10% butane in my Jeep twenty years ago. Brazed up a couple of adapters. At the time there was a huge amount of interest and information on the intertubes about this because of the increasing difficulty to get R-12 at a decent price. When R-12 was outlawed, owners of old cars went into a tail spin based on a lot of misguided "expert" opinion. The biggest one was that you have to change every hose and o-ring to compatible rubber compounds.
What no one counted on was that the original mineral oil lube coated all the parts so that they didn't leak. R-134a needed a different rubber to avoid leaks.
can you use propane to replace r134a? i am just concerned because r134a has a different kind of lubricant in it. thanks.
No refrigerant has lube in it. Honest to goddess, really? But to answer your question, R-290 (propane) is compatible with all of the common refrigerant oils.
@@frequentlycynical642I cracked open an old can of a/c pro, and found lube in it. It dissolves in the refrigerant.
I'd just top up a low system that already contains 134a
Good video. I believe the propane would be r 290.
+TheBadelcamino yes my bad, I think I had called propane R-129, and getting it confused with another item.
Propane is flammable, but also is r1234yf under pressure which is used in newer vehicles now. One thing I would suggest is to pull a 500 micron vacuum. Incase of compressor failure and internal arcing of metal scrapping inside.
+lookItsJayden ya this was a first test run to see how well it would work, needed a new compressor and dryer so i wanted to just test it as simply as i could, since than the compressor was replaced, the dryer, a proper vacuum pulled and proper manifold gauges were use to recharge again with propane, and to be honest it was cold enough that i froze a soda can on the dash during a road trip a couple weeks ago and exploded on the windshield
Another alternative to r12 is hotshot 2,
ya ive used that before too, so far ive found propane still works the best for a replacement, and as you said r12 is also just as flamable so not worried about and fire or explosions,
Aarons Automotive i have a 2007 Chevrolet C4500 shuttle bus can this be used in the a.c system? Just wondering i heard that r12 is the best,just realized how much good use propane can be
Yes you can, did many recharges this summer including an 07 yukon, 2011 gmc sierra duramax, 96 dodge cummims, 2010 holland combiner. The little beer fridge in my garage, and on a class a diesel motohome ac system on the engine, along withits 2 roof top ac umits. So it should work on the c4500 shuttle bus as well
Oh yeah, check your 401K about now too. Thanks Brandon......
Regardless use superheat method at the compressor on the r290 scale. Make sure you keep 15 or 20 degrees superheat
What's a "superheat method"?
Sounds like propane actually gets too cold. Maybe running lower than spec amounts would bring the outlet temp to proper levels?
Actually running less refrigerant makes the system run colder because the pressures are lower, that's why AC units freeze up when the refrigerant charge is low. If the evaporator is freezing up that means you actually need to add more refrigerant to bring the pressure up so the evaporator runs at a higher temp.
The problem is that an R12 system isn't made to handle the pressure of propane (R290), so if you add enough refrigerant to get the suction pressure high enough that the evaporator will run at above freezing (54 PSI or higher) the system may flood back and destroy the compressor since it's not designed to run on propane. Also, the high side pressure will be way too high and could destroy the compressor, blow a hose, etc, which could end very badly when the system is full of flammable gas.
@@averyalexander2303 hmm. Might need a faster fan speed, or a smaller piston to complete the conversion without those worries.
@@sparc5 Yeah there's no doubt that propane could work great as a refrigerant if the system was designed for it, but retrofitting an R12 system to use propane is a bad idea. Propane's pressures are very similar to R22. Most of the hydrocarbon R12/R134a replacement blends are a blend of 60% propane and 40% isobutane to bring the pressures down to a more appropriate level for R12/R134a systems. If someone is comfortable with using a flammable refrigerant in their AC system, using a blend designed for the purpose like Duracool or Envirosafe would be a much better idea than straight propane (R290).
@@sparc5 Smaller piston? How do you increase a fan speed?
@@averyalexander2303 Amen. My R-12 conversion added isobutane. I think it was only 10%, but that was twenty years ago, so I may be wrong.
but did you replace the dehumidifier?
I don't have so much of a prob with propane per se.....but you should be doing some other basics. Like have a proper manifold gauge set so you can monitor high side and low side pressure. Also, putting a measured amount of refrigerant to meet vehicle specs would be best. Too much can be worse than not enough.
i don't know if they weigh the same. not sure if the original weight value might be much help. one could judge charge levels based on in and out temps at the evaporator however.
I put 60psi (low side, compressor on) in and it works, same as R134 at 90F. Is there a conversion table for R134 to R290 weight? I know large cooler display cases only take 5.5oz of R290.
There are no weight specs for propane for any application that uses other refrigerants.
@@68pishta68 THERE IS NO CONVERSION EQUIVALENTS! The temp/pressure curves are RADICALLY different. Look them up.
Sounds....... really.........great. Any oil in the system? Might want to take all the gravel out of the compressor at some time.
How much propane would you use in such an operation? One thing about the propane, its cheap. $25 for 9 kg bottle and you'll use less than a litre which should last yrs ( providing you've no leaks)
I'm interested in this but I got a concern. Doesn't propane sold for cooking or heating in cylinders contain water?
I'm planning on doing this but I'm going to put one of those descicant filters between the tank and fitting.
I use the propane in smaller bottles for camping at Walmart. They usually don't have the water you would find in propane cylinders when you refill them. They even sell a butane/propane mix in a 11.5 oz can.
@@RacingRocks12 What is your source for claiming that small propane cylinders have less water? Do you really think that they come from different sources? Both want the cheapest possible, which might include water.
Your AC system has a receiver/DRYER in it. It should take care of any moisture in store grade propane;
@@frequentlycynical642 I used to work in a facility that bottled them. We had many tests to check the moisture content in the propane after it went through a drying process prior to our filling machine. Moisture would cause damage to our smaller nozzles used to fill the cylinders, therefore all propane went through a drying process to keep maintenance costs at a minimum.
@@frequentlycynical642 the dryer in the AC system is only for miniscule amounts of moisture that may get in the system. It would become logged with water if you filled it with propane. You may get lucky and get dryer propane where you live, however if you got some propane as I did the other day for my stove, nothing in that AC system could dry it out.
Will this propane work on my window a/c that calls for R32
So I'm a total fan of form follows function whatever works awesome but with that said what happens if a seal goes bad and starts leaking and you have hot manifolds or a failing spark plug wire?... boom or fire? Why not just use Duster it's super cheap?
+all the boost thats the thing, r12 and r134 are also both just as flammable as propane but are used in cars. Odd of a leak catching fire due to hot exhaust are very slim unless the manifold if glowing red got, and very rare to see a spark plug wire ark out unless its damaged, and even than, itll ark/short on the closest patch to ground ie any metal closest to the damaged wire, with the AC lines being pretty far away from all that its slim to none and the air flow in the engine bay from the radiator fan alone is enough to disrupt the proper air/fuel ratio for a leak to sustain any flame. But a very valid point made, and yes, an air duster is cheap to use as well... but it propellant is liquid oxegen, which is in any form of a fire will just feed/fuel a small flame 10 fold. And for the reason of the BBQ tank was expired and couldn't be refilled so figured id use it up any way i could before turning the empty tank i to an air tank.
@@AaronsAutomotive , r134 and r12 is Not flammable, r152a is flammable
@@brotherstoy mixed with compressor oil fog all refrigerant is flammable.
@@AaronsAutomotive My god, the ignorance! R-12 and R-134a are NOT flammable under most circumstances, let alone like propane. I hope you don't parent or vote.
Should you use an r134a orifice tube or one for r12?
I would use the R12 orifice tube as the r134a tube are a lot less restrictive and have found that it tends to lead to a lot of freeze ups, with the r12 tube being slightly more restrictive it can regulate the pressure a little better and keep the system from freezing on up when the fan speed is set on mediums/low or on the free way.
@@AaronsAutomotive Woops - no; R134a discharge pressure is significantly higher than R12 (about 15% higher or so) which means the R12 orifice tube is less restrictive than the R134a orifice tube.
Just FYI, it's R290, not R129.
Yeah.... that was the least of his mistakes on this project.
Steve E lol
How does that 90 degree brass fitting push up and allow the fuel to pass.The ones I see on ebay have a piercing end designed to fit the 134 cans.
kitschy llamasf i had modified the fitting to fit with a regular propane tank, and once the propane tank is flipped upside down and air is purged from the line than the liquid propane is allowed to flow. as long as it doesnt come into contact it the atmosphere it will remain a liquid and flow thru the lines as such under pressure. think of it as your water lines in the house. even thou there are multiple bends and elbows in the copper piping, as long as there isnt a restriction in the line the water will continue to flow as long as you have pressure.
kitschy llamasf as for that part of the system that has the needle to pierce the can, it has a rubber gasket inside of it, when the fitting is tightened ( as if you were piercing the can) it will prevent any gas or fluid to flow, lossen the end as if using a can and it will open the valve allowing the fluid to flow thru
Thnx Aaron,Notice your minus the bbq regulator which might cause propane liquid restriction through the line.Was also noticing how small the orifice is on the left threaded propane adapter is.Is that what you are using on the propane tank with needle size orifice left threaded?
kitschy llamasf yes, all it is is the left handed thread sandard bbq fitting, and threaded onto the R134 refill kit hose. once the tank is upside down the liquid propane will flow out of the tank and into the AC system without issues or restrictions as only about 0.75 (3/4) of a pound of propane is needed to fill. so as long as there is atleast 2 pounds of propane in the tank it will fill the AC.
Hey Bro,will this work with any type of R 12 system? Like a 1978 Ford,Mercury product with a 351M ? I have R 12 but Propane is cheaper that pissing away any R 12 if it is going to leak out,unless I fix the leak.So,what you think,Yea or Nea,,,,Thank s for your time,mark..
Great subject. Too much camera movement. You need a tripod. Slow down your speech.
Already picked up a tripod, thanks, and yeah, speaking fast had always been a problem of mine. Thanks for the input, and I'll keep working on it
Propane is a R290 not R129. R600a is a isobutane. In Poland (and all UE) we have R134a only to 2023 :(. Now R134a is 400% more expensive then in last year. :(
on
f12 system is i didnt ad oil compressor would self destruct atter 3 or 4 f12 additions.
How does adding liquid through the low side not damage the compressor??
Shouldnt it be added through the high side?
you can turn the compressor pulley manually for multiple revolutions to ensure it's not hydrolocked
Just add very slowly. Done it all my mechanicing life. No problems. Of course, if you hear noise, stop immediately.
ayyo, what do you think mapp gas would do in an automotive A/C system?
A bigger BOOOM? It's all hilarious until someone loses an eye... Or their life.
@@johninmilford7719 Indeed, because we're not running round in tin boxes with gallons of highly flammable liquids in already right? But what about in a crash, all that propane escaping? How about putting a match to some antifreeze, or transmission fluid though, both of those run through the vulnerable cooling system at the front of the vehicle too. (What I'm saying is, R290 is flammable/explosive in the right proportions to air, but so are many other fluids in a vehicle. Common sense applied using 290= no more or less danger than before in my considered opinion)
@@danmackintosh6325 The difference is; is it flammable, or EXPLOSIVE? You'd think that a car being mostly made of metal wouldn't burn much. BUT WOW! They burn!! During the Boston demonstration a Police cruiser was ignited. 30 foot flames for almost an hour, and the fire department had a hard time putting it out. I still wouldn't want MAPP, or Propane, or Butane in my Auto AC. While excellent refrigerants, they all seem to leak and why take the chance.
Just want to state, that Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Mopar with their new 1234YF refrigerant is actually more flammable than propane or MAPP gas, just saying.
@@johninmilford7719 not to mention all the vehicles that are on the road that are STILL liquid propane or compressed natural gas powered.... a little in the AC isn't something to be worried about.
Highly do not recommend using lpg out of a canister. Use refrigerant grade propane.
And you get that where? And, USA at least, w/o the EPA license?
This video pruning that the gmc made for good materials because you are making so many mistakes and still it working
Can we replace r32 to r290 in split 1.5 ton air conditioner. R32 amount in ac is 650gms in system
R32? No, that's a totally different gas with much higher pressures. R22 can be replaced with R290 and the system will work great, I did that with my old window AC years ago and it still works perfectly. However, I can't recommend replacing R22 with propane because of its flammability, if it leaks the gas could catch fire or explode.
@@averyalexander2303 R290 is propane...
@@Tugboatpb That is correct
@@averyalexander2303 did you mean r32 the second time around?
@@Tugboatpb Nope. R22 is the only common refrigerant that can be replaced with straight propane (R290) with good results. But as I said, I wouldn't recommend doing so because it is a flammable gas. R32 is a totally different refrigerant that runs at much higher pressures and has much different properties when compared to R22 or R290 (propane), so I can't imagine that propane (R290) would work too well as a replacement for it.
i need help i got a chevy s10 1991 no aircondition only heat can i just add a/c refrigerant without removing old oil or what eva is in there ebay sell r12 refrigerant so i dont have to convert it to r13
hacker Rich ya if you are just topping it up with ac refrigerant than no need to remove the oil from it
What’s the differences between R290 propane and R129 propane - high/low temp.
regular propane in propane bottles is mixed with some kind of sulfur stuff to make it smell when there is a leak.. because pure propane has no smell.. I don´t know if this sulfur stuff is good inside an AC system...what does it do to the oil, and sulfur+moisture = acid...ok maybe doesn´t matter in such an old vehicle
System is closed, a/c removes heat, it does not create cold.
Thats why you pull a vacuum and use a drier. No moisture, Also propane is a very dry gas, there is no moisture in there or else it would freeze up the valve.
the stinky gas is ethyl mercaptan, not pure sulfur, it won’t be an issue and the quantity in propane is very minute. Humans can smell it in concentrations as low as 2 PPB, so even a tiny amount is very pungent.
@@68pishta68 Commercial fuel propane is NOT a very dry gas. It has moisture in it.
Around 7:45....kept waiting for the BOOOOM!
LOL, me too! Got a little worried for the guy, just waiting for the BOOM, and a red mist to fill the air.
It would need the correct Stoichiometric ratio of gas and air to go boom. Since there is only GAS in the lines thanks to the vacuum pump that seems very very unlikely.
I did this to my old Dodge, but I take grandma to the store a lot. I thought grandma had a problem, turned out I had a evap leak.
Can you mix propane with r134a if the system isn’t empty?
Yes
@@pragmatisch496 Well that would result in a really effed up system with no way to understand what is going on.
But why? Just empty it. In a legally approved manner, of course. Wink wink.
I'm charging into the low side of the comp, no accumulator in my car - should I just charge vapor ?
Good question, I heard liquid in the low side can damage the compressor, other sources mentioned vapour is desirable on low side.
@@mickwolf1077 yes. I shook the can a little because I am inpatient... but charged primarily with vapor
Yes - correct, always charge vapor on low side when there is no accumulator present. This guy was okay charging liquid on low side because he was charging directly into the accumulator. The compressor CANNOT compress a liquid so damage is inevitable if liquid goes directly to it.
I've never heard of a car w/o an accumulator. It's what keeps an even flow with varying compressor speeds. The receiver dryer does this.
The biggest problem I see with doing this, besides the potential fire/explosion hazard if you aren't careful, is lubrication. You need oil in the system.
That being said, you can run your truck on propane, and run the AC on propane. You can light your home with propane, run your fridge on propane. Cook with propane. Heat your home and water with propane. Propane has a lot of uses.
+Mark R - The US is adopting " Propane " slowly and no doubt on many usage. But still I am scared in Cars / Trucks! But if House Hold AC, it's perfectly fine since less movements except for " Lightning / Electrical Shocks ". But Commercial AC has been using Propane for a long time now.
Gosh darn it Bobby. You forgot that the Hill family also used propane to kill enemies with flame throwers.
@@sweetbread9008 oil stays in the system, you cannot drain the oil unless you invert the compressor.
Steve Wander - Refrigerant oil circulates WITH the refrigerant. If you have a refrigerant leak, you are also losing oil. Eventually, after multiple top- offs, you will suffer the consequences of low oil level. By the sound this dudes compressor was making I’m guessing he will have found this out by now.
@@68pishta68 That's not true. Oil is "miscible" in refrigerant, so it carries the oil all the way through the system to keep all of the seals oiled and keep the oil going from intake to exhaust of the compressor. Some oils are more or less miscible in the refrigerant depending on the system/refrigerant used. PAG oil will actually leak out with the refrigerant, but only a portion of it will be lost per charge. Makes it really hard to ensure you have the proper oil level in your refrigeration system. Too much oil will gum/clog the orifice/TXV and not enough oil will cause premature failure of the seals and compressor.
Not a good idea. I'm not going to get into weather filling the system with propane is dangerous, but I will say that using fuel grade propane sure isn't a good idea. Fuel grade propane is far from pure, and can cause problems. If you are aware of the risks and want to try this, use R290 instead, which is refrigerant grade propane. It's pure propane, so there shouldn't be any air, moisture, odorant, or other contaminants to cause issues in the system.
R290 (99.5%) is more expensive than R134, sort of defeats the purpose of the video...been using camp bottles (95%) for years, never an issue.
@@68pishta68 R290 is cheap compared to the compressor failing from contamination and sending metal debris through the entire system. If that happens you will need to remove and flush every component in the system, including the evaporator behind the dash. Envirosafe R134a Substitute is can be had for less than $5 a can on eBay and works better than straight propane with lower pressures. It's illegal to use in an R12 system in the US, but so is propane. I'm glad you haven't had problems with this yet, but just because you haven't doesn't mean other people won't. Also, fuel grade propane is easier to ignite than a more pure gas, it will ignite at around 800 degrees F compared to Envirosafe's R134a replacement which won't ignite until about 1300 degrees F.
@@68pishta68if you're in the US, envirosafe industrial r134a substitute is what you need, 12 bucks a can. for elsewhere, care 30/hychill is 20 usd a can. pretty cheap
@@edbo10 I've used Envirosafe Industrial R134a Replacement with good results. Since it's a mix of propane (R290) and isobutane (R600a), its pressures are much lower than straight propane and much more suitable for R12 and R134a systems. Propane's pressures are actually very similar to R22, so it works well in R22 systems.
@@68pishta68 You missed the whole point of the video, which was about R12 systems. If you have an R134a system, there's not much reason to use anything else with R134a being available for about $5 a can. If you have an R12 system, R134a is NOT compatible unless you remove the entire system, flush all the old oil out and replace with PAG or ester, replace the seals, install a compatible desiccant, and install R134a fittings. And after all that work, you end up with a system that doesn't work as well as it did.
And they say Farmer's and Red Necks are dumb people, I don't think so!
How much better does this propane conversion work than the original R-12? I bet your car is a fridge now
After I did this, I went on an 8 hour road trip with a couple friends, didn't think anything of it and left a can of coke on the dash on top of the vent, it was FREEZING cold, haha, we were all shivering inside but with temps outside being +45c (115F) we happily took the cold AC, well.... my can of coke froze, and exploded open all over the dash and windshield
@@AaronsAutomotive Awesome. R-12 not only damaged the ozone, it also has a GWP (Greenhouse Equivalent) to CO2 of 8100. This means for the 2lbs of R12 used in a typical car, it would be equivalent to 8 tons of CO2 or driving about 50,000 miles. R134A has GWP of 1430 They are building new refrigerators and freezers with special compressors to use R290 (Propane) and R600A (Isopentane) - and they could have used this THE WHOLE TIME? I used to think (as they claimed) that if you got into an accident breaking the evaporator with your system charged with propane - your face would be burnt off from the flames. This isn't enough propane to do so. I would recommend someone use a vacuum pump to remove all oxygen and not use R290 in a hermetic compressor (like on your refrigerators) unless designed for it. (Remember on "Fight Club" the scene with the theory of his apartment?)
@@filter4now In the US, propane is limited to 150 grams per unit. A third of a pound. Not usable in cars, legally.
propane is NOT R129. Its actually R290. There is no such refrigerant as R129. But i see nothing wrong with this set up. I have propane running in my brothers 22 year old R22 system. been running for 3 yrs. originally took 4 lbs of r22, but now its only 2ish lbs of propane. Has had ZERO issues and very cold air!
An R-22 system? You are beyond wrong. I think you mean R-12.
You said the system was vacuumed. Those valves don't hold vacume though
joe bob yes they do actually. I have seen several hold vacuum for hours before they slowly let air it.
....... they don't, most of the time
Then you part fill it close to atmospheric pressure right after vacuuming then charge it later.
You are correct, the vacuum will pull the valves open and let air in.
Would love to see the head pressure I bet it it off the freaking charts dude.
Not if you charge by pressure instead of weight... Damn if you applied a full weight charge of R290 in an R12/134a system I'd fully expect it to pop off, but if you keep the pressures sensible/only charge until system pulls down to temp in a reasonable timeframe then likely it'd be fine.
@@danmackintosh6325 no the correct procedure is to know the amount of weight of R290 to charge into the system instead of R12. Just because they both work with mineral oil does not mean they react the same. Charging off of pressure is a terrible idea.
@@mikewalker225 True I guess, but charging on pressure works for me. (mind, I do tend to charge on the hottest of days so it's not likely to run higher)
@@mikewalker225 actually charging off weight only is a terrible idea.especially if you're changing to a refrigerant that the condenser and evaporator are not engineered for. Charging to a specified weight is just and guidance to get you in the ballpark. When you get close to your charged weight you then use your temperature probes and do the math to figure your superheat and subcooling based on ambient temperature. I never weigh in a full charge I get somewhere around 30 to 50% depending on the size of the system and start looking at the temperature probes. Normally the weight in sticker is pretty close but just last fall I had one that was off by 4 pounds from factory. The 6-year-old system had never worked right since the day it was installed according to the owner and never cooled properly and they had complained about it several times service guys come out and did warranty work never really fixing the problem. Finally the compressor died we evacuated the system into a empty tank finding it was right on according to the sticker. After replacing the compressor and recharging the system we found we the system was fully charged and operational at the right temperatures but 4 pounds short of the sticker. Looking at the service records there was notes that they could never get their temperatures correct even a note from one guy I said the system look to be overcharged but he had evacuated it and wait it back in and it was right on the factory weight he drew four question marks after that statement on the service ticket. So I would say he was confused as to why but never followed up. My thoughts here on this propane charge of a pickup truck and yes the system has more pressure on it now to make propane work with the system design is it going to be a little harder on the compressor then the original factory refrigerant probably. Would something like r152a computer duster work better for a relatively low investment without the need for a license to buy it definitely because it would run at a lower pressure it would agree with the oil in the compressor and it would perform about like r12 and probably a lot colder than r134a. What's the important thing is it would run with less pressure on that old system. But this guy's video was to show people that you could use propane and it would work and for that I guess I still have to give him an A. Lots of other people have done videos on r152a not too many people have done videos on propane.
@@johnsonlong1272 will propane work with the oil that r134a uses? pag oil?
You pulled a vacuum then took the guages/pump off so it just sucks air back in........
It is an excellent refrigerant but it seems as though I remember my instructor in tech college telling us that it is illegal to do so because back in the 80s there were mechanics working on cars that had been retrofitted with propane and had some bad explosions and injuries occur as a result. It just seems a bit risky to me personally.
And yet the 'new and improved' R1234yr refrigerant is also flammable! Funny how flammability was the reason hydrocarbon refrigerants were not allowed for decades, until suddenly flammability didn't matter.
@@paulmaxwell8851 Not even close to propane. "Yes, 1234YF (also known as HFO-1234yf) is classified as a mildly flammable refrigerant. It falls under the ASHRAE 2L category, which means it has a low flammability rating12. However, it’s important to note that while it is flammable, it does not significantly increase the fire risk in internal combustion engines"
If your car takes 27 oz of r12 then how much propane do you use?
You can compare by weight. It has to be done by gauge,. and even then you are gambling. You need a propane/butane mixture to perform the same as R-12.
Good way to get yourself BLOWN up. I would not do this and I would not recommend it to ANY one. But good luck
Thank you for you input, Mommy. FYI, doesn't seem to be an issue.
@@frequentlycynical642 Whatever, good luck. Not responsible for you poor judgement. You'll be ok as long as you don't drive it and have an accident.
camera tripod ??
frank ertolacci didnt have one at the time
frank ertolacci and i filmed it with a potato
can the r12 be used in a 2007 shuttle bus a.c system without the conversion? I heard about the r12 is the best a.c gas ever created
r12 ac gas best ac gas
best AC gas
come to brazil
Use what the system is rated for. It was engineered for it! How difficult is this to understand? Now, if you have an R-12 system, simply vacuuming the system, and charging a full can of the R-134a that has the POE oil in it, then topping it to the amount on the nameplate minus 7%, with just R-134a, it works so close to R-12 you really wouldn't know the difference. Here is the reason that they don't work "as well": Lack of proper vacuuming techniques, and lack of the proper oil being added. BOTH need to be done to go from R-12 to R-134a. Engineered correctly, an R-134a system in a newer car will out-perform an old R-12 system running R-12. It looks like you are asking to roll back to R-12 from an engineered system using another refrigerant; you can, but you really shouldn't. Also, some busses, use other refrigerants that are definitely NOT compatible with R-12. An HVAC/R pro would have to guide you on that.
You contradict yourself. R-134a has an average 50% cooling capacity when used in an R-12 system. In order to achieve a retrofit that is even usable, you have to change the orifice tube and the condenser. The reason why cars that were meant to use R-134a can achieve a higher cooling capacity is that they were manufactured with a different orifice tube and a much larger condenser with a different flow pattern. R-134a needs a parallel flow condenser, where R-12 really shines with a single path condenser. Propane is by far not an ideal R-12 replacement, but because of many other molecular characteristics it can massively outperform R-134a in an unmodified system
the saftey jerks get scared using propane as a refrigerant due to automobile accidents but i see 6 ton buses running on natual gas ...as dale and boomhower would say...dango works fine
If you think that the big propane bottles designed for transportation are as fragile as the hoses in your AC system, you are pretty stupid.
Geez...oil the hood and door hinges...😂
Is this safe? And who did you learn this from..🤔🤔😳😳😳
Safe? Doubt it. And its an ol' farmers trick we'd do to the Bush/hunting trucks, tractors and combines
Don't wreck it....
or your fuel tank will explode when the 45psi of raw gasoline will come shooting out of your high pressure EFI fuel rail....
@@68pishta68 Not a good comparison. Replaing R12 with a flammable refrigerant is illegal, at least in the US. Also, The fuel tank and system is well protected, not right in front of the car like the condenser is. The condenser is the first thing to go in a front end collision. Also, the fuel doesn't run through the inside of the vehicle like the refrigerant does. As unlikely as an evaporator leak is, a cabin full of propane could end very, very badly. I'm not saying don't do it if you want to, just please be aware of the risks if you choose to do something like this.
@S Maksymiv An open flame is not the only possible ignition source inside the vehicle, it is full of electrical components. Switches, relays, motors, faulty wiring, etc could also ignite the gas if it leaked out. Realistically though the risks of an evaporator leak large enough to present a hazard are pretty low though. A decent brush guard may help protect the condenser a bit in an accident, but not enough that I would call filling the system with propane safe. I think the propane would be much more of a danger to the vehicle itself than the occupants though since a fire is most likely to occur under the hood and the only way an under hood fire would endanger the occupants is if they were trapped, but if an accident is severe enough to trap the occupants the refrigerant is probably not going to be the only thing burning and the people inside the vehicle would quite likely be dead anyways.
@S Maksymiv I see your point, but fuel systems are designed specifically to not be compromised in an accident since they contain a flammable liquid or gas. The fuel lines are run towards the center of the vehicle, the tank is a good distance away from the back bumper so it isn't damaged in an accident, the fuel tank has a rollover valve so fuel isn't spilled if the vehicle rolls over, etc. Flammability was not a consideration when the AC system was designed like it is when a fuel system is designed since they aren't designed for flammable gas and therefore a leak isn't expected to create a hazard. The condenser is right in front and can easily be damaged, refrigerant lines are run through vulnerable areas, etc. I can not think of a practical way to design a vehicle's AC system in a way that it is reasonably well protected in an accident since the condenser must go behind the bumper, there really isn't anywhere else to put it where it would be less vulnerable and still receive good airflow. The condenser can also easily be punctured by road debris that hits it such as rocks, this happened to me 2 weeks ago. If the condenser being vulnerable wasn't an issue I would feel much safer about flammable refrigerant and I would agree with you that it is no more dangerous than the propane or gasoline in the fuel system.
@S Maksymiv The fenders are also quite vulnerable. The other problem with that is it wouldn't be as effective. The condenser couldn't be nearly as large as if it was mounted in front of the radiator and the airflow wouldn't be as good. Using ducting to direct airflow would help but also would create aerodynamic drag, which manufacturers avoid at all costs these days. The reduced efficiency of the AC system from a less effective condenser and the increased aerodynamic drag would offset any cost, environmental, or efficiency benefits from using propane. I have seen buses with the condensers mounted underneath and cooled by electric fans, but that certainly wouldn't be practical for passenger vehicles because the ground clearance is much lower.
depends on if youre filling high side or low side....you really dont want liquid fill on the low side.....
You can liquid fill on low side, just trickle it in and it'll evaporate before hitting the compressor. Required when charging R410 systems. But for such a small system vapor will work well enough.
@@bairfamilyfarm1336 Yeah i guess dont just dump it in
Propane is a hydrocarbon, as a liquid it acts exactly the same as hydrocarbon based oil. Many tests have been done, propane is a superior refrigerant in every way except for being very flammable when mixed with oxygen/air. In Europe it is now being used for some automotive and refrigerators and walk in coolers and even some residential systems. More safety systems required, but it has a high latent heat, great thermal conductivity, low global warming potential. (You should look up global warming potential of water vapor vs carbon dioxide, may be a bit surprised) and in its liquid state it is a lubricant. (still a small potential of slugging the compressor and damaging it, but usually it will evaporate enough by the time it gets that far in a compressor itself, it usually has evaporated enough as long as it's not already up to operating pressure/capacity when adding it)
@@johnbrizendine7716 Im with you...just not sure if its ok to charge low side with liquid propane?
@@RandomPsychic Should be okay, as long as you add it slow enough for it to mostly evaporate before it hits the compressor. On an automotive mechanical compressor, if it slugs the compressor and locks it up, the clutch will slide/give until it evaporates enough to continue. It's a bit hard on the bearings if that happens and a bit hard on the clutch, but not catastrophic. They are cheap enough and easy enough to rebuild or replace that it's not a huge concern either way. In an electric compressor, you risk burning out the windings and that's not cheap at all, and should be avoided if at all possible.
this guy is going to kill himself with his old rusty peace of truck ha ha
Go buy a Tesla then!
Why charge the system, just install the tank...lol
Recorded with a shoebox😊
As a licensed HVAC/ R Contractor yes propane has same properties as R-12 .Yes True a refrigeration cooler is making small coolers with that as a refrigerant but all electrical connectors motors are explosion proof . Your truck engine and other items under the hood ARE NOT . No speaking as a former firefighter . You are riding in a BOMB. What happens if you get a leak or God forbid you get into a accident . PLEASE think about the liability you are putting your self into. If this was safe auto makers would be using this.. Thank you. Have a blessed day. Stay safe out there
+Pat Stansberry
- LOL I agree! R134a at Walmart is only $4.88 for 12OZ can! LOL
You are so right about this,a couple #s of propane can make a very huge fire.
You can " Retrofit " an AC R-12 to R134a easily. Why take the risk? R134a is only $4.88 for 12oz Can!
And gasoline or its vapour is hardly flammable or explosive...
Jordan Bronson r134a doesn't cool worth a shit in a "retrofitted" r12 system...
50 on the low side is way too much. Should be around 35psi
Yeah propane should be lower than 134a which is 35 to 45 on the vacuum side.
R290 at 50 psi is right at freezing. 37 psi is 16 F.
@@noellwilson1273 interesting
no kiero pensar si tienes una fuga despues con las mangueras es algo tonto hacer eso arriesgas a tus familia adentro de ese carro nomas por hacerle al vivo
For an r12 replacement a 60/40(by weight) mix of r290/r600a the weight of charge is much less than r 12 but its on line. This mix will work much better than what you are running. Heck if you want to run straight propane, it would be better to run straight r22.
Raise your hand if at any time during this video, you were expecting that truck AND that dude to be blown sky fucking high and then worrying about his truck and his carcass coming down from the sky to land on your single wide. Super fun video, but too scared to try it. I might not like the county I live in, but don't want to be blown into the next county, Just a personal preference. Got to go wrangle a Honey Badger, later.
In a lot of european countries cars use liquid propane as fuel.
Look for R134a at Walmart if you have one close by. It's $4.88 for 12oz which is pretty cheap! If you search for 1234yf... Some Cars Manufacture is recalling them since safety was in questioned!
Pretty safe. For propane to go boom, it needs oxygen and a source of ignition. No oxygen, no source of ignition, no boom. Make sure your system has no leaks and nothing should go boom. Even if this little amount leaks, it's not really enough to do too much. Might scare you or catch something on fire.
+Mark R - Hahahahahaha.... Nothing goes boom until there is an accident! Sure, leave your Cars / Trucks at home in your driveway / Garage, it will work! LMFAO !!!
Do you work in the business? I like the way you try to propagate a myth. ALL refrigerants are flammable under pressure. Yes 134 too, you know the stuff that causes cancer to your testicles? Want to know why propane isn't used in the US? It's used all over Europe. Look up a word called PATENT. Nobody owns the patent on propane. Dow Chemical can't get rich selling it.
Excuse me now, I have turn off my AC, it's 105 out and blowing 40 degrees in my cab. It's getting a bit too cold in her for me. Yeah, I'm running a blend of propane and butane so the pressures stay close to R-12. What would be better is the AES just designing a system to run on pure propane. My compressor runs at about half the energy it takes to compress R-134a. Keep drinking the cool aid and buying 134a, hahaha.
Hang on what happens if you get a leak in the evaporator and then light a cigarette? Instant death?
You don't have a sense of smell?
Why are you smoking?
@@frequentlycynical642 head buzz
Not good idea in a car wat happens in a crash
How bad a crash? What is the source of ignition? You may have bigger problems, especially in pre-air bag cars.
Recharge refrigerant which is flamable in car is suicide if accident
Propane for barbecue grills is not pure, it contains some moisture and impurities. Why not convert to r134a
Because most systems designed for R-12 suck when running on R-134a. Not all, but most. Wrong sized components.
You are right, nothing cools as good as r12 did. I remember converting an r12 car ac to 134a, it sucked so bad. Figured i would need a better condenser, ended up reclaiming the r134a out of the system after i found some r12.
OIl? Aren’t you going to put any oil in your system? That compressor won’t last very long without a charge of oil first before you put any refrigerant in the system.
Don't get near an AC system until you understand the basics. The oil stays in the system after discharge.