Worf Will Kill Himself
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Star Trek · The Next Generation · s05e16 · Ethics
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Star Trek · The Next Generation · s05e16 · Ethics
Thanks for clicking, thanks for watching, hope you got what you came for.
BuyMeSomeBeans: ko-fi.com/tjwparso / paypal.me/tjwParsoTV
Intro Audio: Star Trek TNG: s03e06 'Booby Trap' & s03e12 'The High Ground'
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0:35
I absolutely love Picard's exhale as he mentally acknowledges the minefield he's about to step into... He knows that as far as Crusher's concerned, Worf's life is not over yet. but as far as Worf is concerned, the exact opposite is true. "The road between covers a lifetime of values, beliefs." Explaining either side to the other is going to be difficult.
300 years in the future and they still haven't figured out how to make central air quiet.
It's probably not that, but a funny take on it.
I mean, yeah, it can't really be wind noise.
At the NASA tour I visited once there was a tube that simulated what it’s like to be on a space station noise and all. It was surprisingly loud. The ventilation in particular was very noticeable.
Not Just Air. They are surrounded by lots of equipment, most of It plasma based.
That's engine noise.
In complete agreement with Captain Picard here
I'm happy that you are so consistent in uploading all this star trek content. Takes allot of dedication to do it after all this time.
consistent seams a stretch
"Consistent" means regular. 😉
Maybe you mean "persistent"? I.e. despite lulls in activity not giving up? (Although persistence usually also implies a certain regularity despite obstacles.)
@@tjwparso We're still glad to see you again. Please (to the best of your ability) don't stop uploading Star Trek/SG content. In my line of work it's invaluable to have videos that are 2-5 minutes in length to kill time between work tasks. I'm always so stoked when you start uploading clips of a new episode, I know I've got something to look forward to for a day or so.
@@alanstringer. tryna make the channel more of a priority again pal so hopefully you'll have plenty to watch 🖖🏻
Beverly is CLUELESS about the psyche of Klingons. Captain Picard is so strong and wise. Thanks for all your posts
1 month late reply. but that clash is what makes Star trek. Beverly's point of view is from a doctor, and Picard's is from someone who has been to that culture.
i love Picards understanding of Klingon culture. he might, he could....no he will kill himself. Crusher sees him as alive but to Worf, he might as well be dead
This episode has one of my favorite scenes, where Riker refuses to help Worf with the ritual.
He may be alive, doctor.
But he will not be _living._
Are you not at all concerned with the difference between the two?
One of my favorite debates in Star Trek: putting Beverly in a position where her moral code is put in direct conflict with Worf's.
Picard might seem what would be considered, morally wrong, but he certainly is right
An era of amazing television -- where two opposing viewpoints could be fairly considered and presented to the audience to wrestle over, without dictating to the audience which viewpoint was the white-hat-good-guy position and which was the black-hat-bad-guy position. Two of the great moral compasses in the entire franchise -- Picard and Crusher -- on opposite sides of the argument. Neither painted as "wrong".
An era long past, sadly.
It’s sad that she sees him as a human being not as a Klingon warrior. To be denied the life of a warrior and forced into life as a handicapped person. It’s a living nightmare to Worf. Dr Crusher was so wrong here, I bet if she saved a person’s head and only the head, she would try to make that person be happy living in a jar on a shelf. If she ever saw Johnny get your gun, she’d most likely agree with the ending, leaving Johnny alone in darkness, pleading for them to end his misery but never listening.
2:35 Don't make him worse, except you're ignoring his MENTAL HEALTH Bev. You'll let him deteriorate until suicide is considered pallative.
Dr. Crusher should know by now byt Worf WILL NOT even consider being a "Wounfded Warrior"
"The first tenet of good medicine is to never make the patient worse."
Well when your patient is going to kill himself over his condition and inability to change it and the only other option is a risky medical procedure...risky medical procedure. Because your supposed "ethics" are about to kill a man. Worf had informed consent, the time for Beverly to voice her concerns is during that informed consent period. Her job is to present the choices to Worf, not to deny them on the basis of her own personal beliefs.
Not only is Crusher completely ignorant and dismissive of her patient's deeply held beliefs (the Klingon mode comment), but also when confronted with a loss of control she immediately jumps to full restraint custody as a solution to impose her will. A terrifying character.
A Beansmas miracle
I'm full of beans. Merry Christmas everyone.
The surgery may have only had a 33% chance of survival, but that's better than the 0% Worf had without it.
One of the things Crusher should know as a doctor is that ultimately the decision on whether to accept or forgo treatment is always up to the patient NOT the doctor. As long as the patient is competent, she has no input. She must see that his wishes are carried out.
Not exactly. I cannot approach a doctor and tell them I’m going to commit suicide without expecting that doctor to intervene. And the vast majority of doctors certainly will not assist in that suicide.
This part I'm actually okay with. While I am DELIGHTED that Dr. Crusher is 100% opposed to suicide (I fist pumped that she would post armed guards around her patients to prevent assisted suicide), I also do believe that it can be reasonable to allow patients in severe circumstances to take medical risks on cures or even pain relief. If someone dies as a SIDE EFFECT of pursuing health or pain relief, that is not suicide as killing the self was not the intended purpose of their action.
While I'm still disgusted that the writers had Picard try to bully Riker into complicity in Worf's suicide 'to be a friend' earlier, I'm on board with Picard's maneuver in this later scene. It IS true that Worf's health has suffered serious trauma and Worf seems in serious danger of death (socially if not medically; he's spent a lifetime entrenched in ableist attitudes of disgust towards the disabled (attitudes he has now turned on himself post-disability) and he is LIKELY to be able to find someone willing to kill him, regardless of any armed guard his good doctor may post). So, even if the proposed cure is a long shot and carries a serious risk of death if it fails... that seems proportionately worth it. It can be reasonable for Dr. Crusher to agree to this for the sake of her patient.
Her attempts wouldn't work. Worf would ask for a comm unit call his brother Kurn to take him back to Qo'nos and do the ritual there. He'd be well-aware that his nephew Alexander and human upbringing wouldn't allow him to do it, Riker citing Klingon law saying a family member has to do it. So it would fall to Kurn to do it. He'd become Regent of the House of Mogh until Alexander becomes of age and is ruled fit to lead the House.
Beverly couldn't stop him. Once Kurn gets involved, Prime Directive kicks in.
If crusher had had her way Worf would’ve remained paralyzed
Worf would've asked for a comm unit, call his brother Kurn to take him back to Qo'nos and do the ritual there. Beverly couldn't stop him as then it would be a Prime Directive issue and no choice but to let Kurn take him.
I'm afraid that, caring and medically proficient as she is, Dr. Crusher appears blind to the psychological injury, and its long term impact.
I hate how people don't think of what's best for the other person. You shouldn't force somebody to stay here, if somebody is suffering and has lost the will to live it should be the person choice not the doctor or the family or friends. Unless you have the ability to cure what is causing them to be suicidal it is selfish to force them to live loosing what dignity they have slowly becoming a shell of who they were. Just because healthy people are scared of death and can't deal with it doesn't mean the person feels the same.
Nice to see that in the future, we left behind the primitive notion of suicide as a treatment.
Only to be forced to confront it once again.
As long as there are debilitating and incurable ailments, this debate will continue.
THE BEANS ARE BACK!!!
Oh, Big Red...
Crusher is a good doctor, she always thinks about saving life first.
Reference, the Code of Bushido.:)
I understand where Beverly is coming from. But this is Worf's life and ultimately Worf's decision.
She doesn't want to let a little Mengele have her success experience through expoiting a patient's ideology-based emotional distress, believing that such matters should not be dealt with through convenience. She wants to find a better way. Since she is a doctor, her job oath is at times difficult but worthwhile to serve.
Maybe she should have allowed all options to be presented, but Worf is also a colleague she cares for.
True friendship is not about protecting each other's weakness, but lending each other strength.
All ideological examination aside, the doctor wants to walk a personally difficult path while the scientist a personally easy one. That kinda speaks for itself.
@@Dowlphin What you call exploitation, i call permission.
If the patient would not be willing to take such a chance, then an ethical doctor would not perform such an operation. Nor would they attempt to pursuade the patient otherwise.
But if the patient wants to take that risk, making that choice on their own, knowing and accepting what might happen, then how is honoring that desire explotation?
@@davecrupel2817 This is highly relevant for our time, too. Being properly informed and not making hasty decisions based on emotional manipulation is very important.
Instead we have people being indoctrinated with ideology and half-truths and through that pushed into courses of action that certain bad people want for control.
Also consider this is a two-part situation. Maybe you are focusing on Worf wanting to undergo the medical procedure, but before that he just wanted to die, so if they had pandered to that, Worf would have had no opportunity to agree to the risky medical procedure, because he wouldn't even know about it.
@@Dowlphin You haven't answered my question.
@@davecrupel2817 I have. And I will leave it at that.
Why can't we get THIS star trek again? Genuine conflict of values and issues that need to be wrestled with instead of just showboating and grand standing.
I agree with Picard but I was surprised to hear him take this position.
He is the best captain
crushers mindset is what makes conditions far far worse then needed, just cause they are able to live doesnt mean they will be living, ive heard stories of countless paraplegics and quadriplegics requesting medical assisted suicide countless times due to losing what they perceive as a massive part of their being, i would sooner die then never walk again or be able to use my arms again
Beverly is clueless here. I had to make the journey picard described, it isnt easy. I can’t imagine how hard it would be for a klingon to make it. Worf is alive but isn’t living. To him and his people if they can’t live as an able bodied warrior then life isnt worth living. She is only looking at it from the perspective that being alive no matter the circumstances or costs is all that matters.
Klingon mood mode😂
Crusher was so wrong in this episode. While Dr Russell didn’t have ulterior motives bottom line It was worfs choice to accept the risk of the experimental surgery.
"If he goes into that operation, he could come out a corpse", It should be his decision, especially since she herself doesn't have anything better, except a wheelchair. not sure if they exist in this time, the fact remains, it should be his decision not hers
Dire Worf.
The first tenet of good medicine is never to make the patient worse…except trapping him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, which is fine apparently. 🤨 Somebody didn't think her medical ethics all the way through.
"Worf is alive and functioning," but there is more to life than just functioning is what I would have told her that somebody who is what is known as an incomplete quadriplegic I struggle everyday just to function and I can tell you there is more to life then just functioning I wish I had a Klingon around he what understand exactly how I'm feeling obviously Beverly crusher does not she has never been in a situation like that she does not know what it would be like if she did not have her skills anymore.
While Dr. Crusher may not want Worf to take his own life, she has no right to forcefully stop him from doing do. I am surprised that by the 24th century, Federation law has not made this clear.
You're right in one sense but ultimately Star Trek at its best is morality plays meant to be relevant to us, the watchers. And we don't live in the 24th century unfortunately, we live in a time where suicide is a hotly debated topic that at least in the US most don't seem to agree with.
If Worf couldn't get Riker or Alexander to do it, he'd simply ask for a comm unit to call his brother Kurn. Crusher won't be able to stop him as it would then be a Prime Directive issue
I know the episode tried to depict Dr. Crusher as being in the right, but I had to agree with the other doctor and Captain Picard - given Worf's determination to kill himself according to Klingon tradition, doing the experimental procedure was justified.
I just saw this episode for the first time last week (not sure how I missed this one). This episode was 🔥 and this scene was 🔥 🔥 🔥
Dr. Crusher relieved Dr. Russell. Does that mean Commander Riker relieved Commander Koenig?
Still not figured out that the transporter can be used to reset injuries?
The arrogance of doctors... typical, for today, the patient has very little say in the matter, even in the so-called 'enlightened' 24th Century, so it would seem!
Picard: Beverly, he can't make this physio therapy journey
Meanwhile in DS9...
*Worf being beaten within an inch of his life by a drugged up zealot soldier* "COME ON...I DON'T HEAR NO BELL!"
I'm with Worf on this. I may not be bound by honour but when I was going to live the rest of my life in constant pain and virtually loose all chance at mobility, I would much rather have thrown all my cards on the table and gambled for a solution then live with the restrictions I was given. Life is not worth living if all you are is a house plant
I love beans uuuuuuu, uuuuuu, uuuuuuu
Spoiler alert: Worf doesn't kill himself
_nnnnNNNNOOOOO! I HATE SPO.... oh, nvm_ 😅
_Uh... I wanted to say I hate Spock, of course._
_Uh, no, I mean..._
You ruined any chance for this to be a temporal anomaly or it-was-all-just-a-dream episode.
Didn't she turn the entire crew into mutants once or twice.
If Starfleet was canadian: Lets suicide Worf!
Another example of Dr. Crusher being a shit doctor.
BOG Movich Buro ✓ Airbnb HPD
You trying to say something? I feel the same if so.
I stay for brak
wait killgon have "full killgon mode" what now "full captain mode.
Man, Crusher really needs to get over herself here. Worf's fate is not her call to make. If he wants to off himself, he has that right.
I hated Crusher's positions in this episode. The other doctor was right to honor Worf's choice. And she was also right to risk using the newer treatment on the other patient who died, because her evaluation included the analysis that the standard treatment was even _more_ likely to result in death. She made the choice to try the new treatment without consent not because of its potential to offer a better recovery, but because she estimated its chance of _any_ success to be higher than the older treatment. In that situation, that's all we can ask for. Ask the doctor to go with what they think has the best chance.
TNG and Voyager were the very best of Star Trek - the new stuff is a load of rubbish by comparison