I found Worf’s relationship with Gowron, to be poetic. Worf’s sword stroke put Gowron in power. Worf’s sword stroke removed him from it. Long live the empire.
The strategy Worf once used to save Gowron (pretending to be vulnerable and wait to strike until the enemy ship would lower their shields to board them) was the same strategy Worf used to kill Gowron (pretending to go down and wait to strike when Gowron raised his Bat'leth to attack him)
Worf romanticized and treated Honor like a lover and a Warrior of old. Unfortunately he was blind to the politics and corruption to his people in his era followed by and hid behind Klingon traditions. Fortunately Worf was able to put it into that corruption with two stabs to the abdomen later on down the line.
@@wa.a.s.nfa.2786 It's not surprising that Worf romanticized Klingon warrior culture. Worf was raised by human parents and did not associate with any Klingons until later in life. According to Worf's parents Worf did everything in his power to live as a Klingon, as he believed Klingons to be. This is a major reason why Worf is so serious all the time. He doesn't easily laugh or joke around like other Klingons do. This is why Riker was surprised by the behavior of his Klingon crewmates when served as first officer on a Klingon warship. Riker was shocked that Klingons relax, laugh, make fun of each other since Worf didn't act this way.
@@adamcollazo8228 so very true. We also realize that Worf's composure is due to a trauma that happened in his youth. A tragic accident took place during a soccer game that he was in. He allowed his Klingon aggression and passion get the better of him and it resulted in the death of a teammate. Even though it was ruled as an accident, he realize how easily it is to lose control and those weaker than him could suffer. From that point on he chose to keep himself at a distance while working with humans. The only time he will allow himself to feel his true Klingon Nature's when he did his Holodeck programs calisthenics.
I imagine its because he was a child when he was taken out of klingon society l. He was there long enough to learn its ways but not long enough to see its hypocrisy
Exactly. 😁 There was also a pretty blatant use of a stunt double (for Gowron) during that fight right before they went through the glass. The Klingon Worf was fighting didn't look remotely like Gowron (Robert O'Reilly) for a few seconds.
Gowron was authentic Klingon all the way. Loved to fight, loved to drink, constantly talked like he was about to fight, crazy eyes all the time..... love it.
Sure, but he had a paranoid streak about him a mile wide. It kept him alive, but it also started his descent down a dark path. Whether it began as soon as his reign started, or before, is uncertain. He did begin writing a very favorable account of his role in the civil war. He allowed his fear of the Dominion to go ahead with the invasion of Cardassia, even though he was being manipulated, himself by Cha'rtok. Martok's exploits seemed to dwarf Gowron's comparatively limited experience, and so Gowron risked total defeat in setting up Martok for potential humiliation and dishonor. What honor he had had no chance against his paranoia.
@@Euripides_Panz What you say is true but I have to disagree with the implication that Gowron was somehow dishonored. Gowron's main flaw was hubris. He thought he was more capable than he actually was, more intelligent than he actually was, and this caused him to become arrogant. The corruption in the empire was not his fault and he made efforts to deal with it but he simply wasn't able to handle it. Nevertheless, he never resorted to treachery or dishonorable tactics. He met his end in battle against a worthy adversary and lived his life fighting in the open against internal corruption in the empire and external threats like the Romulans and the Dominion. I'd say Gowron kept his honor even if his performance as Chancellor was mediocre overall.
"The grasp of Duras reaches out from the grave!" I love that line so much. The writing in TNG and DS9 was simply superb, we'll not see their like again for a long time.
@@jwilson544 If you read the books, you'll know they almost copied it verbatim in the show. It must have been the easiest show to write. That's why once they reached beyond the books, the writing fell off a cliff.
It's a subtle part of the exchange, but I love the implications of Gowrons outrage at learning that the council knew of and participated in the deception. Even just the implication that he was incensed at the High Council participating in the protection of a betrayer, and the slander of a loyal family gave his character some much needed depth.
Indeed. Despite how cynical the high ranking Klingons were, how they knew the veneer of honour covered something else, at some level they still believe. Gowron's genuine reaction to hearing that not only was treason covered up and an innocent house destroyed for it, but that it was done with the blessing and at the behest of the high council - even the leader of the Empire hadn't realized how deep the rot had set in... and he is powerless to correct it, because all the factors that led to the dishonorable decision remain in place.
@@shauntempley9757 Well by the time of the Dominion War had rolled around on DS9, Gowron was pretty much borderline insane considering he felt threatened by a man who had no designs on leading the Empire even if the people had wanted him to do so.
@@DarkLordDiablos Which is what was meant in TNG about the Klingon Empire rotting. Gowron is the expression of that rot. He was put in charge because a Duras led Klingon Empire would have been disastrous in TNG's period never mind in the Dominion War. Because that Empire under their command would have joined it. He only went insane because he saw that the Empire was rotting, and had no clue how to fix it, when it was the same rot that put him in charge in the first place. Only Martok and Worf knew how to, and it is what was shown when Worf and Martok met in that Dominion camp. Gowron never, ever had that kind of fire. He was a politician at best, and an adventurer at most, and unfortunately, an adventurer is not fit to lead a people. Martok was always what the Empire needed. He is the closest to what Kahless represents, as long as he is raised by Klingons. Worf is unfit, because of his time with humans. He would cause as much damage as Duras would have done, and he realises that during DS9.
@@shauntempley9757 with the exception that under Worf, Klingons would have moved to a slightly more economic than militaristic Empire, I'll grant most of this. Not sure if that would really damage the Klingons, but it sure as hell would have put them on a different course.
Gowron was one of Star Trek most complex character - he had positive traits that he even displayed in his final scene in DS9, but he had plenty of bad ones too
That was the thing about trek in the 90s they were the original woke. They knew everything in a character is not good or evil. There is a line by which the best ones walk tightly upon. Modern writers can learn a lot from this!
@@2bescenecom Yup! Some of the characters show a lot of LGBTQ+ traits that are so widely accepted today. DS9 was particularly known for this, between Garak (he was originally meant to be gay), Kira (female role-model), Sisko (black command figure), and - by a country mile - Jadzia Dax (female role model, polyamorous, transgender (trill are kind of like that when joined), interracial marriage (to Worf)...). If you don't force it and find a way to make it work, then it doesn't come off as preachy in the slightest.
Gowron looked utterly devastated that the Council knew about Duras' father and still supported the family in direct violation of Klingon honor. He was a complex character, his end on DS9 seems to outshine his greatest moments in TNG. But I like to remember him as he was here, when I thought he was awesome.
In the beginning Gowron was a very honest and honourable man, but as Adam pointed out, absolute power corrupts absolutely and by the end he had become borderline insane seeing the likes of Martok as a rival for his job even though Martok wasn't interested in the job. The council's corruption did hit him hard especially when the evidence against Duras was known, though the fact he knew that the council was still loyal to his family, it does make you wonder why he was so surprised. Still great acting from Robert O'Reilly who always put everything he had into the character from his crazy eyes to his way of talking was top notch.
He was still playing the political game in TNG. He refused to restore Worf's family honor here. And when he became the chancellor, he only restored Worf's family honor after Worf promised the support of the fleets under Kurn plus a petition for help from the Federation.
@@DragonHeir92 Klingons are half Japanese Samurai and half Vikings. The whole Klingon afterlife is based on Viking lore such as Asgard and their love of bladed weapons and the Bat'Leth is like the Samurai and their swords.
Gowron had the power to do what was right here by restoring Worf's family name, he did restore his family name later when it was politically expedient to do so! Later he stripped Kurn of his seat on the council due to Worf opposing the invasion of Cardassia!
@@joshuacollins9346 I used to, but then I realized they wrote his character arc in this way to remind us of one of the harsher truths of society- all great leaders change, sometimes for the worst, and who they might've been before can never be allowed to excuse what they become
Well in a sense he did because the heart of a Klingon is one of Honour so to hear that the Council he was part of and become leader of had knowingly condemned a loyal House and forced upto that point its last living descendent to accept discommendation to protect a traitor, hit him like a truck.
I made a similar observation. But yes, even though the Klingons knew that politics sometimes forced compromises their honor may not have reconciled with, they still very much cared about conducting ones self with integrity. When Gowron learned that the Council, who were supposed to be the very best of them, deliberately destroyed a loyal family to protect a traitor it outraged him to his core.
I like how Gowron was so outraged by the council's dishonorable conduct, it physically pained him that he had to lean against that machine. A complex character, I think he's a good example of how power and war can slowly corrupt an otherwise honorable person
Also he was stuck on Qo'noS whilst others like Martok were on the front lines lapping up all the glory of possibly the greatest war the Empire has been involved in. That must be tough on a Klingon. Even knowing Martok would never challenge him and would never support such a challenge.
I think you are giving Gowron too much credit. he was always corrupt. Physically pained mabe but he still refused to correct the corruption to protect his own power. even when Worf offered to give Gowron the followers of Kurn he wanted Federation help. then when it was Picard who needed to borrow a bird of prey Gowron was unavailable and what was he doing at that time rewriting the history books claiming it was his genius that won him the civil war without Federation help
I like how Gowron's hands are tied as tightly as Worf's are by the Council and Duras. When personal loyalty competes against ones duties and honor, there will be trouble.
He is absolutely fantastic. Gowron is almost the opposite of Warf. Where as Warf is quite calm and restrained and mindful so much of the time, Gowron is fiery with those distinctive eyes of his and he’s passionate in a different sort of way from Warf’s understated passion courage and honour. I guess you can put that down to Robert O’Reilly’s superlative acting and characterisation.
I really wish Gowron had added "yet" when he said "i cannot expose their treachery." just that little change would have added he at least thought to repay worf once he was able to, rather then if he felt like it.
"It will not be easy for him." "No, it won't" "but at some point, he's going to want to know what it's like to really be a Klingon." "Just as you're learning now."
Imagine story arcs like the assassination of Gorkon, the Klingon Civil War, or the rise of the House of Martok, but spread over the course of a series. I recall hearing not long ago that Michael Dorn has been pitching a series based on Klingon politics, diplomacy, and intrigue in the post-Dominion War era. The studios have shown no interest. Too bad.
Did you ever play the game, Star Trek: Klingon Academy? It had the actor who played General Chang reprise his role. Very epic and wonderful story showing, yet again, what can be done with Klingons. But the heroes of a Klingon show would naturally embody a warrior tradition in its highest sense, the ideal Samurai or warrior from the Vedic texts, and they would be fighting against the power plays and corruption of less than ideal Klingons. It might turn out something like the Godfather... which guarantees it'll be a massive hit. I suspect the studios wouldn't like it either because they are ignorant of the potential or because it doesn't suit their political agenda. I can't see how they'd make a Klingon show about feminism and gay rights. I guess they could try, but no one would watch it lol.
His forearms were always too skinny for a klingon, But MAN he made up for it with his insanely deep booming voice. Michael Dorn was the perfect pick for Worf, chief of security
Dorn said that he acted Klingon-like during his audition. He kept to himself while waiting his turn, did his audition professionally, and just thanked them and walked out when he was finished.
He may have gone nuts at the end, but those were some extreme situations. He had been humiliated, the EMPIRE had been humiliated. Gowron was still a man of honour, and he knew, here, speaking to Worf, he was not likely to meet a better Klingon in his lifetime than Worf.
Gowron was selfish and political, but he was never bad. He made *some* good decisions for the empire while he was in control (and not under influence by a changeling) and was MUCH better than the corrupt and treacherous Duras would have been as chancellor. I think he made it to sto'vo'kohr or whatever the Klingon heaven is. He didn't sneak around and stab people in the back, he confronted his enemies openly, including his death.
@@hobomike6935 I said nuts, not evil. At the end he was desperate to redeem not only the empire, but himself, having been fooled by a changeling for who knows how long. He felt the empire had been made the laughing stock of BOTH quadrants. He had to fix that. This also made him paranoid with Martock. He feasts and fights eternally in the halls of Stovokor.
I love the detail of Gowron coming down and looking into worfs eyes to ascertain the truth. A klingon warrior can see someones heart with a single look.
When he first became Chancellor, actually. Only a few episodes later, by "Unification I", Gowron "rewrote" the "official" version of what happened during the Klingon Civil War, leaving out the fact that the Federation helped him expose the Duras family's collusion with the Romulans. That was the first sign of power corrupting him. Then a few years later, when the Klingons started a war with Cardassia on suspicions that the Dominion had taken it over, Gowron pulled the Empire out of the Khitomer Accords after Worf wouldn't help him. When the Dominion War officially broke out, Gowron did technically restore the Klingon-Federation alliance, but he was very stingy with the amount of ships and personnel he actually allowed to get involved in the war. Worf was finally forced to kill a man he once considered his friend when it became clear that Gowron's methods for fighting the Dominion weren't working.
I feel this was by design in the storytelling. The concept of a good honest man corrupted by power and obligations is a very old story that can be found in any society that has a government. It makes for really compelling characters because it makes the viewer wonder if they too could be corrupted like this one person who used to be honest and noble. This also makes you question the other villains in a show to wonder if they have always been evil and what made them evil. Lastly if an honest man can turn to the dark side, what does this mean for the heroes of a story. Could they turn dark as well? Fun stuff!
@@benvolio15 now I know you're talking nonsense, government leaders don't suddenly start becoming foolish and power-hungry when they are elec......i'll shut up now.
The way that Gowron looked so pained to hear the KHC knew of the lies about Worf and Duras is beautiful. I prefer this version of the character to the DS9 version (sadly as I love DS9 far more than TNG overall). He seems a traditionalist, yet always willing to hear out options outside of his own normal views. Not above politicking, but still looks for a "honorable" way to handle everything.
"The Councils KNEW!?!" I love that line. Both the warrior and the politician in Gowron reacted. His warrior side outraged at the actions of the council, and the politician instantly understanding the realities of what this meant for him to be able to continue to lead.
“Now you must live with your decision.” Even if it’s unfair, and there are moments in everyone’s life where that’s true. We too must adopt the Klingon way.
@@jacksonheathen2092 Fun fact: They had him as the main villain of the VCR board game, although technically as a different character named Kavok. Even though he was basically just playing Gowron still. But a different name means you can kill him at the end and not mess any canon up.
SOMETHING TO APPRECIATE: In modern sci fi storytelling, there is this need to all the characters to know everything. What I appreciate is how some shows create backstories to characters that are hidden from other characters for legit reasons and you can see it playing out to never be revealed. Game of Thrones did this, DS9 as well, X Files, etc. Something so cool and hidden backstories explored and kept hidden.
There are people who act like DS9 retconned Gowron, but that fails to understand a pretty tragic and well-written Shakespearean arc. Gowron was an honorable man, and at one time the right man for the Empire - but his fatal flaws of his vanity and jealousy for the people’s love corrupted him and led to his downfall. One doesn’t erase the other. Both are true because he is a complex character.
Most characters usually fit into 4 brackets. 1) Hero-An honorably heroic, inspiring figure, who you can always count on to do the right thing. 2) Antihero-A character who generally does good but might be dishonorable or ruthless or may have selfish motives for his noble deeds. 3) Antivillain- A character who does wicked things but might have redeeming (honor/genuine friendliness) or sympathetic (tragic origin) qualities or his wicked deeds may be linked to some noble higher purpose (does evil to make the world better or to prevent a greater evil). 4) Villain-An evil villainous character who is vile, dishonest, and who you can always count on to be evil. What made Gowron interesting was the fact that he was truly a neutral character. You knew where Worf, Martok, and Duras stood but Gowron was more complicated. He was honorable enough to keep him from being labeled a villain (he seemed to genuinely care about the future of the empire and was disgusted to learn the council blamed Worf’s family and covered up Duras’ father’s crimes) but also was power hungry and willing to do dishonest things to achieve his selfish goals (attempting to bribe Keylar). His ability to walk the line between hero and villain made him very interesting. He was far less interesting in DS9 when he leaned too far into the villainous side and in the final season just became a full-villain. Way too simplistic.
I think he’s “practical”. The four categories you listed is what made stories TOO simple. Good characters always change and waver, their growth and needs in different stages bring them to life. Characters were put into four categories AFTER interactions and circumstances, not before.
Take the throne to act and the throne acts on you. It seems like this moment is the first time he finds out that the High Council is acting dishonorably for political reasons but I doubt it would be the last. Why did he need to get rid of Martok and why was he so desperate to do so that he'd risk losing the war with the Dominion? That never really gets an answer but it isn't too hard to imagine the answer being High Council politics. That is a very high stakes gamble but we only get to see it from the side of the House of Martok. In the end, Gowron lost that bet, but if he had won what was he planning? We'll probably never know.
I love the interactions between them. Two great warriors meeting occasionally and respecting each other and exchanging ideas and talking. It's like watching Robert E. Lee talking to Ulysses Grant.
The actors were not over scripted and they were allowed to riff by the directors. Now the stakes are too high too much money is on the line, and everything is absolutely premeditated. Ex) Gowron and his eyes ua-cam.com/video/mXYUf-_BnpA/v-deo.html
I completely agree. TNG, DS9, and VOY were the best. Although I still love TOS (and Enterprise was alright). I've only been able to stomach a few episodes of Discovery, and haven't watched any of the Picard series yet (I can't endure another disappointment). But those JJ Abrams movies were absolutely horrible. They changed Startrek from great SciFi into some ridiculous superhero action movies.
@@jacksonheathen2092 Don't watch Picard. It sucks. Picard dies and then resurrects as either a clone or an android, I can't tell which one. Regardless, one does not simply turn Picard into a clone or an android.
@@inertiaforce7846 Thank you for the warning. I always suspected it sucked. If they really wanted to change Star Trek that much, then should have just came up with an entirely new series. In fact I think Gene Roddenberry actually said once that there were infinite possible storylines for the galaxy. Unfortunately they just want to keep selling us the same thing over & over again.
Gowron has always been an angry kind of guy, even for a Klingon he really had that rage in him, but for the most part, he truly did have honour, he was never a coward, but politically he realized his place, he loved the empire, and to truly follow his own code of honour, he’d need to rip it apart, instead he allowed himself the disgrace of a politician, his honour sullied with each action, but all in the name of the greatest honour, protecting the empire,
Worf lived by the word of Kahless, who was more of a Monk warrior/poet and understood that there's more to being a Klingon than glory. He held himself to an extremely high standard of honor and selflessness. His people in contrasted strayed away from this and became slovenly and brutish. However, He really struggled in other aspects of Klingon culture, Like drinking, brawling, and enjoying life, which Kah'less would have wanted klingons to do (within reason.) His mates, Keh'lar and Jadzia, usually helped him with this shortcoming, and to a lesser extent counselor troi, but they all either died, had a falling-out with him, or both.
I think Worf believed he was serving the empire. But as Dax pointed out he was willing to tolerate and accept deception and corruption from Klingon Leadership. He also knowingly participated in a lie to protect and cover up the wrongs of the Empire. Gowron was right to refuse helping Worf. Worf made the decision and should have to live with the consequences of that decision.
Always liked Gowron's character. Love that line when Worf says "I believe you to be a man of Honor Gowron". High compliment since Honor was valued so highly by Klingons.
You got to give Gowron this; he was always a shifty politician, but he was a true Klingon; he was genuinely morally upset about finding out the truth about Khitomer.
"...like a Klingon..." Gowron may not have been able to give Worf back his family honor, but he did acknowledge that he is a Klingon, which showed Gowron's respect for Worf.
'You must live with your decision, Like a KLINGON.' Gowron can't undo the dis-commendation but he does recognize and acknowledge Worf as both a man of honor and a true Klingon.
To Picard: We have a message from DS9. Chancellor Gowran is dead, sir. Lt. Worf apparently killed him in a Klingon honor duel. There's a recording of the duel. Riker to Picard (after seeing Worf kill Gowran): I guess that's what Worf meant when he said if you were any other man, [he] would kill you where you stand.
Gowron empowering Worf to shoulder his decision like a Klingon is pretty dang uplifting. Yeah, he is being a slimy politician, but he gave Worf the fact that no matter what anybody says, he is an honorable man and nobody can take that away
I like how he Gowron crouches and stares sideways into Worf's face. It's like he wants to know more, but at the same time he doesn't fully believe it, and maybe is expecting treachery and violence, and is ready for anything.
0:32 dude didn't need to told twice Soon as he heard dismissed he yeeted himself out the room Edit; oh he was so alert he appeared to both acknowledge and do a proper console command before leaving Almost like he knew the script
One of Many scenes that proved the complexity of Gowron's character throughout Trek. He was a trusting of his allies but held long grudges. An intelligent and cunning commander, but not a wise one. And he was always, always quick to anger, robbing him of his judgement in moments where it might have benefited him. And through it all he tried to remain loyal to his idea of what the Empire should be...but that too was a failing, which stole his chances to improve it. All in all he remains one of my favorite characters the show ever produced.
Then almost blew the rest of me away when he flatly refused his right to "ascend to the throne." Almost, because it was definitely a very Worf and very Starfleet officer move to place Martok in that seat instead.
Worf would've remained a background character, maybe one episode per season would have him do a little more than caricatures of an early TNG Klingon, but that's it. Tasha storyline would likely have more of her family roots type of episodes, personal relationships with Data (and perhaps others - Riker?), and trying to be a badass security officer of course.
The journey of Worf going from being a naive idealist about his people to learning about how corrupt and decadent Klingon society had become is one of the best parts of TNG and DS9.
If I watch the whole episode I would probably understand why Gowron believes Warf so readily . With so many lies and so much dishonour going around why wouldn’t Gowron simply assume Warf is lying? Unless Gowron is acutely aware of how dodgy the Duras family are generally. I’m sure Lursa and B’Etor have plenty of skeletons in their closet too?
Well he is more than aware from the prior episode that Dura's tried to kill him (Gowron) with a Romulan device. Rewatch the scene when Picard drops that nugget, Gowron is staring through Dura's head seething.
It's why he asked if there was proof. His technicians would verify the data but as a leader, he had to take the initial position of believing him entirely or not.
I'm sure Gowron didn't just blindy except Worf's claim without examining the proof for himself. In fact later in the episode Worf got Picard to release the records on the Khitomer massacre that cleared his father's name.
1:41 I really liked the way Gowron said, “The Council knew?!” His being bothered by that fact showed he was an honourable man. I just wished that he had not been so dismissive of Worf’s request. Perhaps say that he will at least try to see how he could make it work but that it will take time.
It wasn't dismissive. The minute Worf said the Council was in on his forced discommendation, shifted everything. To expose Duras would have been to expose the Council, and that would have been a death sentence for him. Especially after K'mpek had been assassinated by agents unknown. We still to this day don't know who poisoned him, just that it was likely an agent for Duras. Perhaps those on the Council. If Duras' loyalists could kill one Chancellor, they could certainly kill another.
Funny thing is, the Klingon Empire still split in two and followed Duras, so his discommendation was a waste of time, and he lost K'Ehleyr over it too.
True! And it was also a waste of time for the previous Chancellor, the old fat one who sided with Duras, because Duras ended up poisoning him to death to try and become Chancellor. If the old guy had sided with Worf at that time he'd still be alive and Chancellor!
This entire arc was a masterclass in scriptwriting. The politics, the subterfuge, the betrayals, the revelations. All deftly written. Absolutely incredible.
When Gowron told him to accept his decision like a Klingon, it filled him with pride. For he knew that Gowron respected him. And it's a shame how they ruined his charachter. Gowron should have been a great ally to both Worf and the federation.
I'd like to have seen an alternate history, where Gowron wants to fight with honor like a Klingon but decides to dispose of the dishonorable like the trash they are. The same ways Putin gets rid of his enemies, a lot of klingons would go skydiving without a parachute from a 30th floor window.
A great scene well acted and a memorable one at that
The music also helped create tension. So well done.
Agreed, but seeing gowron without the "chancellor of the empire" curiass that he wears in later episodes is weird-looking.
Interesting how their relationship ends is DS9
I watched it countless times and keep coming back to it.
indeed i was waiting for a long time to see this clip. every time i watched it on tv they always had reruns.
I found Worf’s relationship with Gowron, to be poetic. Worf’s sword stroke put Gowron in power. Worf’s sword stroke removed him from it. Long live the empire.
Its very Shakespearean which the Klingon people fully embodied with their love of fighting and feasting.
QAPLA'!
The strategy Worf once used to save Gowron (pretending to be vulnerable and wait to strike until the enemy ship would lower their shields to board them) was the same strategy Worf used to kill Gowron (pretending to go down and wait to strike when Gowron raised his Bat'leth to attack him)
For the empire!
@@DarkLordDiablosThat's because Shakespeare is a much better read in original Klingon.
Klingon society loved the outward appearance of honor. Worf loved its inner essence.
Worf romanticized and treated Honor like a lover and a Warrior of old. Unfortunately he was blind to the politics and corruption to his people in his era followed by and hid behind Klingon traditions. Fortunately Worf was able to put it into that corruption with two stabs to the abdomen later on down the line.
Dax 2.0 agreed with you, Nathaniel.
@@wa.a.s.nfa.2786 It's not surprising that Worf romanticized Klingon warrior culture. Worf was raised by human parents and did not associate with any Klingons until later in life. According to Worf's parents Worf did everything in his power to live as a Klingon, as he believed Klingons to be. This is a major reason why Worf is so serious all the time. He doesn't easily laugh or joke around like other Klingons do. This is why Riker was surprised by the behavior of his Klingon crewmates when served as first officer on a Klingon warship. Riker was shocked that Klingons relax, laugh, make fun of each other since Worf didn't act this way.
@@adamcollazo8228 so very true. We also realize that Worf's composure is due to a trauma that happened in his youth. A tragic accident took place during a soccer game that he was in. He allowed his Klingon aggression and passion get the better of him and it resulted in the death of a teammate. Even though it was ruled as an accident, he realize how easily it is to lose control and those weaker than him could suffer. From that point on he chose to keep himself at a distance while working with humans. The only time he will allow himself to feel his true Klingon Nature's when he did his Holodeck programs calisthenics.
I imagine its because he was a child when he was taken out of klingon society l. He was there long enough to learn its ways but not long enough to see its hypocrisy
Little did Gowron know...that one day, on an ex-Cardassian space station.....
Exactly. 😁 There was also a pretty blatant use of a stunt double (for Gowron) during that fight right before they went through the glass. The Klingon Worf was fighting didn't look remotely like Gowron (Robert O'Reilly) for a few seconds.
Gowron: “You will not have this daa............”
(Falls over dead)
Worf : (ROARS)
@@whoknowswhocares885 👍😁 Exactly. A good way for him to go out. A true Klingon until the end.
@@jacksonheathen2092 even if he became a conniving jealous coward
@@ninsnumber1fan 👍
I’m stealing this joke from someone else, but.
“Everyone, get yourself a partner who looks at you the way Gowron looks at anything.”
Partner*
Lol!
That's funny! Not sure I want the wife staring phaser brand beams through me all of the time, though.
If you look at your boss like gowron when asking for a raise, you almost always get it
I looked at my meek 900 sq ft house like that... now it's a multi-million dollar mansion.
Gowron was authentic Klingon all the way. Loved to fight, loved to drink, constantly talked like he was about to fight, crazy eyes all the time..... love it.
They shall sing songs of our GLORIOUS Battles...
ua-cam.com/video/mXYUf-_BnpA/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MortenStrandbo click this link, Robert O'reilly talks about how he came up with the eyes.
Sure, but he had a paranoid streak about him a mile wide. It kept him alive, but it also started his descent down a dark path. Whether it began as soon as his reign started, or before, is uncertain. He did begin writing a very favorable account of his role in the civil war. He allowed his fear of the Dominion to go ahead with the invasion of Cardassia, even though he was being manipulated, himself by Cha'rtok. Martok's exploits seemed to dwarf Gowron's comparatively limited experience, and so Gowron risked total defeat in setting up Martok for potential humiliation and dishonor. What honor he had had no chance against his paranoia.
In my eyes thats Kurn who is also a lot bigger probably stronger and sees Gowron as a weakling
@@Euripides_Panz What you say is true but I have to disagree with the implication that Gowron was somehow dishonored. Gowron's main flaw was hubris. He thought he was more capable than he actually was, more intelligent than he actually was, and this caused him to become arrogant. The corruption in the empire was not his fault and he made efforts to deal with it but he simply wasn't able to handle it.
Nevertheless, he never resorted to treachery or dishonorable tactics. He met his end in battle against a worthy adversary and lived his life fighting in the open against internal corruption in the empire and external threats like the Romulans and the Dominion. I'd say Gowron kept his honor even if his performance as Chancellor was mediocre overall.
"The grasp of Duras reaches out from the grave!"
I love that line so much. The writing in TNG and DS9 was simply superb, we'll not see their like again for a long time.
Idk, first 4 seasons of game of thrones were really up there
Yes amazing line
@@jwilson544 What does that have to do with Star Trek?
@Vladimir Chernikov that there is still great in shows today
@@jwilson544 If you read the books, you'll know they almost copied it verbatim in the show. It must have been the easiest show to write. That's why once they reached beyond the books, the writing fell off a cliff.
It's a subtle part of the exchange, but I love the implications of Gowrons outrage at learning that the council knew of and participated in the deception. Even just the implication that he was incensed at the High Council participating in the protection of a betrayer, and the slander of a loyal family gave his character some much needed depth.
Indeed. Despite how cynical the high ranking Klingons were, how they knew the veneer of honour covered something else, at some level they still believe. Gowron's genuine reaction to hearing that not only was treason covered up and an innocent house destroyed for it, but that it was done with the blessing and at the behest of the high council - even the leader of the Empire hadn't realized how deep the rot had set in... and he is powerless to correct it, because all the factors that led to the dishonorable decision remain in place.
@@jarowan The saddest part is that the rot that led to Worf's state here, later forced Worf to kill Gowron.
@@shauntempley9757 Well by the time of the Dominion War had rolled around on DS9, Gowron was pretty much borderline insane considering he felt threatened by a man who had no designs on leading the Empire even if the people had wanted him to do so.
@@DarkLordDiablos Which is what was meant in TNG about the Klingon Empire rotting. Gowron is the expression of that rot.
He was put in charge because a Duras led Klingon Empire would have been disastrous in TNG's period never mind in the Dominion War.
Because that Empire under their command would have joined it.
He only went insane because he saw that the Empire was rotting, and had no clue how to fix it, when it was the same rot that put him in charge in the first place.
Only Martok and Worf knew how to, and it is what was shown when Worf and Martok met in that Dominion camp. Gowron never, ever had that kind of fire.
He was a politician at best, and an adventurer at most, and unfortunately, an adventurer is not fit to lead a people. Martok was always what the Empire needed.
He is the closest to what Kahless represents, as long as he is raised by Klingons. Worf is unfit, because of his time with humans. He would cause as much damage as Duras would have done, and he realises that during DS9.
@@shauntempley9757 with the exception that under Worf, Klingons would have moved to a slightly more economic than militaristic Empire, I'll grant most of this. Not sure if that would really damage the Klingons, but it sure as hell would have put them on a different course.
Gowron was one of Star Trek most complex character - he had positive traits that he even displayed in his final scene in DS9, but he had plenty of bad ones too
That was the thing about trek in the 90s they were the original woke. They knew everything in a character is not good or evil. There is a line by which the best ones walk tightly upon. Modern writers can learn a lot from this!
That's a good point. Gowron's flaws definitely helped make him a better character.
@@Archedgar personally i liked martok alot better
@@ninsnumber1fan Both were good for their own reasons. Both were exceptionally well done.
@@2bescenecom Yup! Some of the characters show a lot of LGBTQ+ traits that are so widely accepted today. DS9 was particularly known for this, between Garak (he was originally meant to be gay), Kira (female role-model), Sisko (black command figure), and - by a country mile - Jadzia Dax (female role model, polyamorous, transgender (trill are kind of like that when joined), interracial marriage (to Worf)...).
If you don't force it and find a way to make it work, then it doesn't come off as preachy in the slightest.
Gowron looked utterly devastated that the Council knew about Duras' father and still supported the family in direct violation of Klingon honor. He was a complex character, his end on DS9 seems to outshine his greatest moments in TNG. But I like to remember him as he was here, when I thought he was awesome.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
In the beginning Gowron was a very honest and honourable man, but as Adam pointed out, absolute power corrupts absolutely and by the end he had become borderline insane seeing the likes of Martok as a rival for his job even though Martok wasn't interested in the job.
The council's corruption did hit him hard especially when the evidence against Duras was known, though the fact he knew that the council was still loyal to his family, it does make you wonder why he was so surprised.
Still great acting from Robert O'Reilly who always put everything he had into the character from his crazy eyes to his way of talking was top notch.
He became a joke of a character on DS9 unfortunately.
@@LKaramazov *eyes widen*
He was still playing the political game in TNG. He refused to restore Worf's family honor here. And when he became the chancellor, he only restored Worf's family honor after Worf promised the support of the fleets under Kurn plus a petition for help from the Federation.
This was such a great episode. This whole storyline, which spanned years, was excellent.
And ended with his death at Worfs hands
So good
Yes, the best story arc in STNG. I love well-done political chicanery in sci-fi (which is why I'm currently a fan of The Expanse).
Yeah it sucked though how they did worfs family name gave it back to him then took it back poor Guy
@@melvindevine9048 Yeah, but then he became a member of the house of Martok, which is, of course, a house of great honor :)
I love how...contained...they are. No screams...no big speechs. A lot of emotion in the eyes, but the low voice make everything so much powerfull.
Its why Gowron was such a good character as he was acted to absolute perfection since everything was done with head and facial movements.
Some believe this is because Klingons are heavily based on the customs of feudal Japan, particularly the samurai.
@@DragonHeir92 Klingons are half Japanese Samurai and half Vikings.
The whole Klingon afterlife is based on Viking lore such as Asgard and their love of bladed weapons and the Bat'Leth is like the Samurai and their swords.
Gowron had the power to do what was right here by restoring Worf's family name, he did restore his family name later when it was politically expedient to do so! Later he stripped Kurn of his seat on the council due to Worf opposing the invasion of Cardassia!
It's the power of TNG as well, in the tradition of Trek: excellent writing elevated by great performances.
2:35 Well he definitely didn’t have the council’s support a few years later on Deep Space 9! Nor did Worf believe him to be a man of honor 🤪
Going over Star Trek clips over quarantine, huh Tay? I don't blame you. (*Cough* DS9's the best one *cough)
@@ThatOneRandomSteve DS9 was the best, after season 3.
@@ThatOneRandomSteve next gen>ds9>voyager
I HATE what they did to Gowron in DS9.
@@joshuacollins9346 I used to, but then I realized they wrote his character arc in this way to remind us of one of the harsher truths of society- all great leaders change, sometimes for the worst, and who they might've been before can never be allowed to excuse what they become
Gowron's face when he says "the Council knew"; its like he's having a heart attack...
Well in a sense he did because the heart of a Klingon is one of Honour so to hear that the Council he was part of and become leader of had knowingly condemned a loyal House and forced upto that point its last living descendent to accept discommendation to protect a traitor, hit him like a truck.
I made a similar observation. But yes, even though the Klingons knew that politics sometimes forced compromises their honor may not have reconciled with, they still very much cared about conducting ones self with integrity. When Gowron learned that the Council, who were supposed to be the very best of them, deliberately destroyed a loyal family to protect a traitor it outraged him to his core.
I like how Gowron was so outraged by the council's dishonorable conduct, it physically pained him that he had to lean against that machine.
A complex character, I think he's a good example of how power and war can slowly corrupt an otherwise honorable person
Also he was stuck on Qo'noS whilst others like Martok were on the front lines lapping up all the glory of possibly the greatest war the Empire has been involved in. That must be tough on a Klingon. Even knowing Martok would never challenge him and would never support such a challenge.
I think you are giving Gowron too much credit. he was always corrupt. Physically pained mabe but he still refused to correct the corruption to protect his own power. even when Worf offered to give Gowron the followers of Kurn he wanted Federation help.
then when it was Picard who needed to borrow a bird of prey Gowron was unavailable and what was he doing at that time rewriting the history books claiming it was his genius that won him the civil war without Federation help
@@DavidKnowles0 that is too generous. he didnt take command to gain glory. he took command to shame Martok and get him killed
I like how Gowron's hands are tied as tightly as Worf's are by the Council and Duras.
When personal loyalty competes against ones duties and honor, there will be trouble.
Robert O'Reilly is really fantastic in his acting, his mannerisms, adds Shakespearean gravitas to this pair of episodes.
He is absolutely fantastic. Gowron is almost the opposite of Warf. Where as Warf is quite calm and restrained and mindful so much of the time, Gowron is fiery with those distinctive eyes of his and he’s passionate in a different sort of way from Warf’s understated passion courage and honour. I guess you can put that down to Robert O’Reilly’s superlative acting and characterisation.
To me the best part is his reaction to learning of the source behind the deception, the Council. He has a 'what have I gotten myself into' look.
"the council knew??!"
I really wish Gowron had added "yet" when he said "i cannot expose their treachery."
just that little change would have added he at least thought to repay worf once he was able to, rather then if he felt like it.
@@hobomike6935 At least the conspiracy had Gowron's attention
“Now you must live with your decision...like a Klingon!”
Worf's life in a nutshell; living with decisions he makes that worked out in everyone's favor except his own
poor worf
@@hobomike6935 Kern and Alexander might disagree with that statement, his decisions kinda screwed them.
@@logicplague dang cant argue with that
i forgot he literally erased his brother's entire life and legacy in ds9. not one of the show's better moments
"It will not be easy for him."
"No, it won't"
"but at some point,
he's going to want to know
what it's like
to really be a Klingon."
"Just as you're learning now."
Worf, son of Mogh, is with honor.
1:56 Worf: "I believe you're a man of honor, Gowron!!"
Gowron: "Glory to you and your house!! QA'PLA!"
This is proper Shakespearean Hamlet kinda stuff! Star Trek was really at its peak at this time!!
You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read it in the original Klingon.
Rick Tallman to be honest I’ve barely experienced Shakespeare in the non original human! 🤥🤗😧🙄🥸🥸🥸😆😁😄🤣
Oh come-on haven't ya seen discovery yo..."I like science"...brilliant amazing empowering stuff!......
Trek peaked with Wrath of Khan.
@@alphanerd7221 WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGGGG!!!!!
Imagine story arcs like the assassination of Gorkon, the Klingon Civil War, or the rise of the House of Martok, but spread over the course of a series. I recall hearing not long ago that Michael Dorn has been pitching a series based on Klingon politics, diplomacy, and intrigue in the post-Dominion War era. The studios have shown no interest. Too bad.
A klingon series would have been awesome, just keep the current crop of star trek producers away from it.
They cannot figure out a way to make it Woke that is why they are not interested, they would prefer that current abortion on CBS they call Star Trek
@@kdrapertrucker God yes not within a light year
Did you ever play the game, Star Trek: Klingon Academy? It had the actor who played General Chang reprise his role. Very epic and wonderful story showing, yet again, what can be done with Klingons. But the heroes of a Klingon show would naturally embody a warrior tradition in its highest sense, the ideal Samurai or warrior from the Vedic texts, and they would be fighting against the power plays and corruption of less than ideal Klingons. It might turn out something like the Godfather... which guarantees it'll be a massive hit. I suspect the studios wouldn't like it either because they are ignorant of the potential or because it doesn't suit their political agenda. I can't see how they'd make a Klingon show about feminism and gay rights. I guess they could try, but no one would watch it lol.
Klingon politics! It would be like the Japanese historical dramas from the Sengoku Jidai!
It’s crazy how jacked Dorn got during his time as Worf
His forearms were always too skinny for a klingon, But MAN he made up for it with his insanely deep booming voice. Michael Dorn was the perfect pick for Worf, chief of security
Dorn said that he acted Klingon-like during his audition. He kept to himself while waiting his turn, did his audition professionally, and just thanked them and walked out when he was finished.
He may have gone nuts at the end, but those were some extreme situations. He had been humiliated, the EMPIRE had been humiliated. Gowron was still a man of honour, and he knew, here, speaking to Worf, he was not likely to meet a better Klingon in his lifetime than Worf.
Gowron was selfish and political, but he was never bad. He made *some* good decisions for the empire while he was in control (and not under influence by a changeling) and was MUCH better than the corrupt and treacherous Duras would have been as chancellor.
I think he made it to sto'vo'kohr or whatever the Klingon heaven is. He didn't sneak around and stab people in the back, he confronted his enemies openly, including his death.
@@hobomike6935 I said nuts, not evil. At the end he was desperate to redeem not only the empire, but himself, having been fooled by a changeling for who knows how long. He felt the empire had been made the laughing stock of BOTH quadrants. He had to fix that. This also made him paranoid with Martock.
He feasts and fights eternally in the halls of Stovokor.
He let his circumstances get to him but he was not evil. Hence a tragic villain.
@@robjackson5245 Fair.
@@tyrongkojy Gowron is like the mayor in "Dark Knight."
Little did he know that Worf would end up killing him too. 😁
I love the detail of Gowron coming down and looking into worfs eyes to ascertain the truth. A klingon warrior can see someones heart with a single look.
Yeah! His question of "There is proof of this?" was merely making sure.
Tell me, “friend”, when did Gowron the Wise abandon reason for madness?
When he first became Chancellor, actually. Only a few episodes later, by "Unification I", Gowron "rewrote" the "official" version of what happened during the Klingon Civil War, leaving out the fact that the Federation helped him expose the Duras family's collusion with the Romulans. That was the first sign of power corrupting him. Then a few years later, when the Klingons started a war with Cardassia on suspicions that the Dominion had taken it over, Gowron pulled the Empire out of the Khitomer Accords after Worf wouldn't help him. When the Dominion War officially broke out, Gowron did technically restore the Klingon-Federation alliance, but he was very stingy with the amount of ships and personnel he actually allowed to get involved in the war. Worf was finally forced to kill a man he once considered his friend when it became clear that Gowron's methods for fighting the Dominion weren't working.
I feel this was by design in the storytelling. The concept of a good honest man corrupted by power and obligations is a very old story that can be found in any society that has a government. It makes for really compelling characters because it makes the viewer wonder if they too could be corrupted like this one person who used to be honest and noble. This also makes you question the other villains in a show to wonder if they have always been evil and what made them evil. Lastly if an honest man can turn to the dark side, what does this mean for the heroes of a story. Could they turn dark as well? Fun stuff!
@@benvolio15 now I know you're talking nonsense, government leaders don't suddenly start becoming foolish and power-hungry when they are elec......i'll shut up now.
I’m not your friend, pal!
@@Pondimus_Maximus I'm not your pal, friend!
The way that Gowron looked so pained to hear the KHC knew of the lies about Worf and Duras is beautiful. I prefer this version of the character to the DS9 version (sadly as I love DS9 far more than TNG overall). He seems a traditionalist, yet always willing to hear out options outside of his own normal views. Not above politicking, but still looks for a "honorable" way to handle everything.
I just think power corrupts so over time galwron changed
Wouldn’t be the first person
Both these guys run into each other through two series. It's great to see Star Trek keep the characters in line
"The Councils KNEW!?!"
I love that line. Both the warrior and the politician in Gowron reacted. His warrior side outraged at the actions of the council, and the politician instantly understanding the realities of what this meant for him to be able to continue to lead.
Still, gowron was pretty cool, untill right at the end on ds9.
He always was a politician vying to hold onto power, he was worried Martok would pull a Duras and try and take power from him.
He loved the window though. He went through it with ease. He had a smashing time
Until Worf stuck a bat'leth inside his belly, that is....
@@LGranthamsHeir There was some obvious use of a stunt double for Gowron during that fight a few seconds before they went through the glass.
@@JaredLS10 And he did. But Martok didn't die. When the new emperor took over. STO.
Sauron only wishes he had one of Gowron's eyes.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Gowron and sauron had a staring contest. The loser had to pluck out the eye that blinked first
Gowron: the council knew??
Worf: yes. Me, the council, the cameraman, the extras, and of course the scriptwriters.....
“Now you must live with your decision.”
Even if it’s unfair, and there are moments in everyone’s life where that’s true. We too must adopt the Klingon way.
I loved Gowron's bulging eyeballs. 😁
That unique look is one of the reasons he got made into a more important character after his first appearance, along with the performance in general.
@@JackgarPrime Exactly. He was a holodeck character in one of Picard's (Dixon Hill) programs in Season 1.
@@jacksonheathen2092 Fun fact: They had him as the main villain of the VCR board game, although technically as a different character named Kavok. Even though he was basically just playing Gowron still. But a different name means you can kill him at the end and not mess any canon up.
@@JackgarPrime I still have that game.
ua-cam.com/video/mXYUf-_BnpA/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MortenStrandbo Robert O'Reilly talks about how he came up with the eyes.
SOMETHING TO APPRECIATE: In modern sci fi storytelling, there is this need to all the characters to know everything. What I appreciate is how some shows create backstories to characters that are hidden from other characters for legit reasons and you can see it playing out to never be revealed. Game of Thrones did this, DS9 as well, X Files, etc. Something so cool and hidden backstories explored and kept hidden.
Robert O'Reilly did a great job as Gowron! He's one of my favorite secondary characters.
There are people who act like DS9 retconned Gowron, but that fails to understand a pretty tragic and well-written Shakespearean arc. Gowron was an honorable man, and at one time the right man for the Empire - but his fatal flaws of his vanity and jealousy for the people’s love corrupted him and led to his downfall. One doesn’t erase the other. Both are true because he is a complex character.
Most characters usually fit into 4 brackets.
1) Hero-An honorably heroic, inspiring figure, who you can always count on to do the right thing.
2) Antihero-A character who generally does good but might be dishonorable or ruthless or may have selfish motives for his noble deeds.
3) Antivillain- A character who does wicked things but might have redeeming (honor/genuine friendliness) or sympathetic (tragic origin) qualities or his wicked deeds may be linked to some noble higher purpose (does evil to make the world better or to prevent a greater evil).
4) Villain-An evil villainous character who is vile, dishonest, and who you can always count on to be evil.
What made Gowron interesting was the fact that he was truly a neutral character. You knew where Worf, Martok, and Duras stood but Gowron was more complicated. He was honorable enough to keep him from being labeled a villain (he seemed to genuinely care about the future of the empire and was disgusted to learn the council blamed Worf’s family and covered up Duras’ father’s crimes) but also was power hungry and willing to do dishonest things to achieve his selfish goals (attempting to bribe Keylar). His ability to walk the line between hero and villain made him very interesting. He was far less interesting in DS9 when he leaned too far into the villainous side and in the final season just became a full-villain. Way too simplistic.
I think he’s “practical”. The four categories you listed is what made stories TOO simple. Good characters always change and waver, their growth and needs in different stages bring them to life. Characters were put into four categories AFTER interactions and circumstances, not before.
such a beautiful scene.i didnt really understand this as deeply when i was younger
Thanks man.. Turned around a very stressful workday!
Glad to hear it!
I don't know what it is, but there's something about his _"The Council knew?!"_ read that is just majestic.
Would have been cool if Gowron stayed cool.
Every great leader must step down. Sometimes by force.
True...
Take the throne to act and the throne acts on you. It seems like this moment is the first time he finds out that the High Council is acting dishonorably for political reasons but I doubt it would be the last. Why did he need to get rid of Martok and why was he so desperate to do so that he'd risk losing the war with the Dominion? That never really gets an answer but it isn't too hard to imagine the answer being High Council politics. That is a very high stakes gamble but we only get to see it from the side of the House of Martok. In the end, Gowron lost that bet, but if he had won what was he planning? We'll probably never know.
Tell that Klingon to be cool! Tell that f@#king Klingon to chill! Promise him it'll all be right! Promise him! Hey, point that disruptor at me!
I love the interactions between them. Two great warriors meeting occasionally and respecting each other and exchanging ideas and talking. It's like watching Robert E. Lee talking to Ulysses Grant.
They don't make Star Trek like this anymore. They don't make TV shows like this anymore. The '90s were the best.
The actors were not over scripted and they were allowed to riff by the directors. Now the stakes are too high too much money is on the line, and everything is absolutely premeditated.
Ex) Gowron and his eyes
ua-cam.com/video/mXYUf-_BnpA/v-deo.html
I completely agree. TNG, DS9, and VOY were the best. Although I still love TOS (and Enterprise was alright). I've only been able to stomach a few episodes of Discovery, and haven't watched any of the Picard series yet (I can't endure another disappointment).
But those JJ Abrams movies were absolutely horrible. They changed Startrek from great SciFi into some ridiculous superhero action movies.
@@Mandolatron The Eye of Sauron? More like the Eyes of Gowron.
@@jacksonheathen2092 Don't watch Picard. It sucks. Picard dies and then resurrects as either a clone or an android, I can't tell which one. Regardless, one does not simply turn Picard into a clone or an android.
@@inertiaforce7846 Thank you for the warning. I always suspected it sucked. If they really wanted to change Star Trek that much, then should have just came up with an entirely new series.
In fact I think Gene Roddenberry actually said once that there were infinite possible storylines for the galaxy. Unfortunately they just want to keep selling us the same thing over & over again.
Man, I watched so much of TNG and DS9 when I was a kid, and I'm taken back by how beautiful the writing is now that I'm almost 36.
So political corruption isn't
limited to just Earth 🌎.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think Ezri Dax opinion of the Klingon Empire was correct
it vas inwented by a leetle old lady in Leningrad.
Chough chough Romulan Star Empire cough.
:D
@@ajdown .....and they called her Catherine the Great.
@@yama123numbercauseytdemand4 Yep. Cardassians and ferengi too.
"I do not hear the words of traitors."
"Hear me out, bro."
"Yeah, alright, what's the harm."
Gowron has always been an angry kind of guy, even for a Klingon he really had that rage in him, but for the most part, he truly did have honour, he was never a coward, but politically he realized his place, he loved the empire, and to truly follow his own code of honour, he’d need to rip it apart, instead he allowed himself the disgrace of a politician, his honour sullied with each action, but all in the name of the greatest honour, protecting the empire,
I love that every Klingon that finds out the truth of Worf' sacrifice, immediately starts actually treating him with respect.
“I do not hear the words of traitors...”
"I am not a traitor."
* Looks at Michael Moore & Kanye West *
@Hannibal Barca Why who has he betrayed? Those who believed he'd jail Hillary and keep out of Syria?
Someone must have activated the Omega 13 device and went back to 2016! 🍊
Hi paul, thanks for posting. This was a good episode.👍
Very welcome. This was a good way to end this season.
Worf was the only honourable man in the whole Klingon Empire.
Worf, son of Mogh, is with honor.
Hail Martok! Leader of Destiny!
Worf lived by the word of Kahless, who was more of a Monk warrior/poet and understood that there's more to being a Klingon than glory. He held himself to an extremely high standard of honor and selflessness. His people in contrasted strayed away from this and became slovenly and brutish.
However, He really struggled in other aspects of Klingon culture, Like drinking, brawling, and enjoying life, which Kah'less would have wanted klingons to do (within reason.)
His mates, Keh'lar and Jadzia, usually helped him with this shortcoming, and to a lesser extent counselor troi, but they all either died, had a falling-out with him, or both.
Martok, Kurn, Azetbur, Kang, Kolos and Gorkon.
I think Worf believed he was serving the empire. But as Dax pointed out he was willing to tolerate and accept deception and corruption from Klingon Leadership. He also knowingly participated in a lie to protect and cover up the wrongs of the Empire. Gowron was right to refuse helping Worf. Worf made the decision and should have to live with the consequences of that decision.
"The Council knew?!"
It's even worse than Gowron had thought, in other words.
Gowron was a great character in TNG and DS9. Great actor as well.
Always liked Gowron's character. Love that line when Worf says "I believe you to be a man of Honor Gowron". High compliment since Honor was valued so highly by Klingons.
"I do not hear the words of a traitor." "Well, you're about to!"
You got to give Gowron this; he was always a shifty politician, but he was a true Klingon; he was genuinely morally upset about finding out the truth about Khitomer.
As much as I love Gowron's big buggy eyes... I wasn't sad when Worf sent him to Sto'Vo'Kor
You shouldn't be, that was a death befitting a klingon! He started to get weak and warf saved him
@@jamesmeppler6375 pull those buggy eyes open and roar in to the air!
At least he made it almost to the end of DS9. There were only a few more episodes left at that point.
"...like a Klingon..." Gowron may not have been able to give Worf back his family honor, but he did acknowledge that he is a Klingon, which showed Gowron's respect for Worf.
Later Worf kills him for running his mouth...
'You must live with your decision, Like a KLINGON.'
Gowron can't undo the dis-commendation but he does recognize and acknowledge Worf as both a man of honor and a true Klingon.
To Picard: We have a message from DS9. Chancellor Gowran is dead, sir. Lt. Worf apparently killed him in a Klingon honor duel. There's a recording of the duel.
Riker to Picard (after seeing Worf kill Gowran): I guess that's what Worf meant when he said if you were any other man, [he] would kill you where you stand.
This is almost like a British costume drama: people being quietly tense in small rooms.
The only name you always hear spoken with contempt by Picard like that is Duras.
The House of Duras is without honor.
The Duras family must have really known how to get things done. Everyone loved them except one weirdo off on a Starfleet ship...
I'm still sad about what happened to Gowron, he was an interesting character
Gowron empowering Worf to shoulder his decision like a Klingon is pretty dang uplifting. Yeah, he is being a slimy politician, but he gave Worf the fact that no matter what anybody says, he is an honorable man and nobody can take that away
Pigtail made Worf a lot more badass.
"I believe you to be a man of honour, Gowron."
[8 years later]
*Retrieves knife from Gowron's stomach*
"Sucka."
2:59 I’m going to make you pay for that someday.
Love the date you put in :) Nice touch.
The council knew???? ⨀⨀
Just before he was poisoned...the episode with them turning their backs on warf was a great scene
Worf: "You're a funny looking guy Gowron, I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last."
I see this relationship will last a long time and will in no way end poorly for either men😉😂😂
Gowron wasn’t a villain..But an example of what happens when power corrupts someone.
1:41 He sounds so hurt by that revelation...
Such an amazing delivery. You could hear how strongly it stabbed at his very soul as he was preparing to be Chancellor of that same council.
Yup he was essentially betrayed and lied to, no honor there
I like how he Gowron crouches and stares sideways into Worf's face. It's like he wants to know more, but at the same time he doesn't fully believe it, and maybe is expecting treachery and violence, and is ready for anything.
0:32 dude didn't need to told twice
Soon as he heard dismissed he yeeted himself out the room
Edit; oh he was so alert he appeared to both acknowledge and do a proper console command before leaving
Almost like he knew the script
Did he just hang about the corridor until Worf was finished? Because surely you just can't "abandon" your station like that.
@@jackdubz4247 Yeah. Did he stroll down to Ten Forward and get a drink? LOL
One of Many scenes that proved the complexity of Gowron's character throughout Trek. He was a trusting of his allies but held long grudges. An intelligent and cunning commander, but not a wise one. And he was always, always quick to anger, robbing him of his judgement in moments where it might have benefited him. And through it all he tried to remain loyal to his idea of what the Empire should be...but that too was a failing, which stole his chances to improve it.
All in all he remains one of my favorite characters the show ever produced.
Blew my fucking mind when Worf killed Gowron in DS9.
Then almost blew the rest of me away when he flatly refused his right to "ascend to the throne." Almost, because it was definitely a very Worf and very Starfleet officer move to place Martok in that seat instead.
Gowron looks like the guy that entered detective Dixie's office in the hollowdeck and threatened him(Picard) S2e19 Manhunt
This video is from 42 years in the future!
i dont think there would have been as big of a klingon story if tasha yarr wouldnt have been killed off. imo
Makes you wonder...
Worf would've remained a background character, maybe one episode per season would have him do a little more than caricatures of an early TNG Klingon, but that's it. Tasha storyline would likely have more of her family roots type of episodes, personal relationships with Data (and perhaps others - Riker?), and trying to be a badass security officer of course.
Those eyes ... the most characteristic feature of Gowron (and Robert O'Reilly). Simply perfect role for him!
The journey of Worf going from being a naive idealist about his people to learning about how corrupt and decadent Klingon society had become is one of the best parts of TNG and DS9.
This is probably my all time favorite two part episode.
It definitely made my top 5 when I voted in the Viewer's Choice Marathon they did at the end of Season Seven.
If I watch the whole episode I would probably understand why Gowron believes Warf so readily . With so many lies and so much dishonour going around why wouldn’t Gowron simply assume Warf is lying? Unless Gowron is acutely aware of how dodgy the Duras family are generally. I’m sure Lursa and B’Etor have plenty of skeletons in their closet too?
Well he is more than aware from the prior episode that Dura's tried to kill him (Gowron) with a Romulan device. Rewatch the scene when Picard drops that nugget, Gowron is staring through Dura's head seething.
david lewis yes I remember that part where Gowron learns that Duras tried to kill him.
It's why he asked if there was proof. His technicians would verify the data but as a leader, he had to take the initial position of believing him entirely or not.
I'm sure Gowron didn't just blindy except Worf's claim without examining the proof for himself. In fact later in the episode Worf got Picard to release the records on the Khitomer massacre that cleared his father's name.
1:41 I really liked the way Gowron said, “The Council knew?!”
His being bothered by that fact showed he was an honourable man.
I just wished that he had not been so dismissive of Worf’s request. Perhaps say that he will at least try to see how he could make it work but that it will take time.
It wasn't dismissive. The minute Worf said the Council was in on his forced discommendation, shifted everything. To expose Duras would have been to expose the Council, and that would have been a death sentence for him. Especially after K'mpek had been assassinated by agents unknown. We still to this day don't know who poisoned him, just that it was likely an agent for Duras. Perhaps those on the Council. If Duras' loyalists could kill one Chancellor, they could certainly kill another.
Gowron was rite though.....like yea man, sucks for ya I know. But you accepted this shit homie !
Gowron is honest and makes no false promises to get an early advantage as many would do. He explains his action and reasoning, and they are sound.
His jealousy over Martok could have enabled the Dominion to conquer the Alpha Quadrant.
And at the end commander Worf kills Gowron in DS9
"You must accept your decision...like a Klingon". That subtle acknowledgement, "In name you're a traitor, but in practice I know what you really are".
Gowron is one of the more believable Klingon characters with those crazy eyes!
Funny thing is, the Klingon Empire still split in two and followed Duras, so his discommendation was a waste of time, and he lost K'Ehleyr over it too.
True!
And it was also a waste of time for the previous Chancellor, the old fat one who sided with Duras, because Duras ended up poisoning him to death to try and become Chancellor.
If the old guy had sided with Worf at that time he'd still be alive and Chancellor!
“Like a Klingon...”
This entire arc was a masterclass in scriptwriting. The politics, the subterfuge, the betrayals, the revelations. All deftly written.
Absolutely incredible.
There's an old Vulcan proverb, Worf: "You made your bed, so lie in it."
Only Nixon could go to China.
When Gowron told him to accept his decision like a Klingon, it filled him with pride. For he knew that Gowron respected him. And it's a shame how they ruined his charachter. Gowron should have been a great ally to both Worf and the federation.
I'd like to have seen an alternate history, where Gowron wants to fight with honor like a Klingon but decides to dispose of the dishonorable like the trash they are. The same ways Putin gets rid of his enemies, a lot of klingons would go skydiving without a parachute from a 30th floor window.