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Why Replacing Stansted Express 10 Year Old Trains Was A MISTAKE - Greater Anglia's AMAZING Class 379
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2024
- In this video, I will be looking at what is possibly the best commuter EMU I have ridden on in the UK - Greater Anglia's Class 379. These were the mainstay of Stansted Express and some West Anglia commuter services until at only 10 years old, these trains were withdrawn in February 2022 in favour of the new build Class 745 and 720 trains, as had been planned by the operator since 2016 owing to cheaper lease costs and savings from having a more uniformed fleet... however, this was undoubtedly one of Greater Anglia's biggest mistakes, as we'll see in the video!
Please note - at the time of recording, the units only had an occasional appearance on the Stansted Express as they had been fully replaced there at this point, and were principally used on West Anglia services until their February 2022 withdrawal.
Journey details:
Date of travel - August 2021
Train - Class 379 "Electrostar"
Operator - Greater Anglia
Origin - London Liverpool Street
Destination - Bishops Stortford
Price - £14.90 return (incs Railcard discount of 1/3)
Class of travel - Declassified first
Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed the video!
Music from Epidemic Sound and is used under license.
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#class379 #electrostar #greateranglia #stanstedexpress #tripreport #travel #vlog
Honestly, the fate of the 379s is extremely sad. Genuinely some of the best electrostars of the entire fleet, but I understand why, because of the leasing costs. Hopefully they go to another operator though.
Class 379s for WMR
@@H4RL3Y448 That seems like a incredibly cursed concept
@@kieranstravels not really as the 172 looks similar to it
@@H4RL3Y448 There’s no actual overhead wires for a 379 to operate on.
@@kieranstravels 379 is also on battery's that last a long time
I absolutely agree with you. GA shouldn't have replaced the 379s the'y're perfectly good trains. The 745s are decent but it would've been better to keep the 379s on West Anglia services.
GA’s bid was to replace the whole fleet but now I believe that they are going to get I think
Really sad that these are getting replaced after only 10 years of service. Guess it just goes to show that it's money over everything nowadays. Hopefully these can find a new home soon since they're part of the huge electrostar family.
Hmm. The 379s were replaced because the company which owns them was charging too much for the privilege of leasing them.
Greater Anglia promised to replace the entire fleet, and while they could have kept the 379s and 360s, it's overall positive that the sprinters, turbostars and PEPs are going too
Whilst I have come to like the 745's somewhat, they don't blow me away the same way the 379's did when they first entered service. Then again, all we had up to that point were 317's, so the air conditioned, comfortable 379's were like a Rolls-Royce.
I recently used the line to go from Harlow to Liverpool Street to take my wife to a medical appointment in central London. In contrast to your feelings, I found the current trains with their mains power and USB sockets under every seat and comfortable seating to be pleasant. We had no trouble wheeling her wheelchair on and off, which was a real plus for me. I may well not have used the trains you preferred when we previously travelled this line at the end of 2019, though that experience did nothing to wipe my memory of the trains I tried to avoid using in the 1990s and early 2000s, which it appeared, appealed for relief from life, by gaining access to a scrapyard! Perhaps my needs were different to yours, and this might account for my different feelings. It would have been great if the hospital was more easily accessed, as it involved a taxi from and to Liverpool street that cost more than the return train journey. Using the underground was judged 'not on' as we both have some mobility issues. It is our earnest desire never to visit London again, as it is too big a source of pain and discomfort. Hopefully, we will visit another London hospital for the last time this week, before a hoped for transfer to a more accessible hospital that will avoid train use. That said, we were both shocked at how pleasant we found the trains we did use recently.
Traveled on the 755 this week for the first time on holiday in Suffolk and was really impressed how comfortable and smooth the ride was, especially for a diesel train on an unloved regional branch line.
The 379’s will never be forgotten
The 720s ride a lot better than the 379s. The questions we really have to ask is, why are the leasing costs set so high for the 379s that they are basically uneconomical to run and have made themselves redundant to all?
I heard it explained somewhere, it has to do with loan interest rates at the time of purchase. I think the 720s and 745s came under unusually low interest rates or something?
@@andrewreynolds4949 interest rates have been stupidly low since brexit and covid.
Leasing costs are set to rob the Public of as much money as possible. Lots of this money travels overseas into Tax Havens. Privatisation the biggest robbery ever held
@@rockerjim8045 It's a stupid idea to separate the operator and trains like was done. Successful privatization of passenger rail is possible, but not the way the UK did it.
The 379 was the best train on GA
I absolutely agree with this video. It's so sad that the 379s were replaced so soon - Electrostars are great trains. Personally if it was down to me I would not have replaced them at all.
I found it odd that the 379s got replaced only 10 years into service.
Considering the trains they replaced were over 30 years old at the time!
I had a great journey down from Cambridge on a 379. It was very comfortable and peaceful.
I think the Class 379 would be perfect for the St. Pancras - Corby trains operated by EMR.
Which I think are now being run by ex-GA 360s
Yep I completely agree there
Or c2c
@teletubbyboi4207 There have been some speculation that great northern will get them, but it is highly unlikely because they already have leased 387s from Gatwick express, c2c and GWR.
They are all stabled at Norwich Crown point depot on the curve between the mainline London & east coast tracks
It's amazing that 317s lasted so long where as 379s barely lasted 10 years.
Ikr. But i think it has to do with when they were in service and the 317s er still in service but not in scheduled service also is it ironic the 315 is still in scheduled service
Alot of people were saying that the 379s should go to Great Northern to replace the 387s, but, i think they should go c2c to work on the southend routes until the 720s enters service
I think they should go to emr
317s are the best on Stansted Express. :P
Great Video Midland
What are you smoking ?
@@SuperOpticJ I'm high on 317 motor thrash.
@@SuperOpticJ probably 317 motors now that really stinks when they blow up
Thank you for an interesting video. I completely disagree with you about the 379s. I have travelled in them many times to Cambridge, always 1st Class, and frankly whilst the seats were better than in Standard Class, many seats were occupied by Standard Class passengers, who were hoping not to be caught out ! On the rare occasions a ticket inspector came through the train, many non 1st Class passengers were sent packing ! The Stadler built Class 745s used on the Stansted Express are one class only, though occasionally the Norwich line units do appear. These units are far superior to the 379s in every way, with excellent doorways with folding steps, giving a level entrance, and a quality of finish that is unmatched by any Bombardier (now Alsthom) built train. Abellio took a sensible commercial decision to abolish 1st Class on all their routes apart from the trunk route from Liverpool St to Norwich. The Class 720s are horrible in every way, having cramped 2+3 seating, and a very poor ride. They could not be more different from the 745s, for their electrical systems are different, and the two types cannot work together anyway ! Abellio should have bought more Stadler units !
The thought was to get rid of the 317s first as they were well passed their best before end 2013 date and enviromentally unfriendly. Whereas 379 was newer and more crash survival and regenerative braking
I am getting addicted of watching these videos lol
Please do Class 317 when you are available!!
The Class 317 only operates in emergencies now.
The 317s deserves better and needs a good farewell
Hopefully the 379s will get transferred to other routes such as the Transpennine route once its fully eletrified and Scotrail Inter City services once as the successor to the 4 and 5 car HSTs on the Edinburgh and Glasgow to Aberdeen line once that is electrified. There has been talk on electrifying it. Who owns the 379 units?
the 379s are owned by the government and are stored since no one bought them
Why can’t greater Anglia take the class 379 back and use them for the Colchester town Colchester and Southend Victoria via Romford
379s could be converted to IPEMUs and run between Cambridge and Oxford when EWR is finished
yeah
That's if the Bedford to Cambridge section is built. The government have been faffing about this part for years, especially for the route which could see homes being demolished.
I am assuming it is being built because cambridge south has commenced construction.
Did the Class 745 STANSTED FLIRT do better than the Class 379 Electrostar?
About the contents between 2:49 and 3:03.
Here is my personal thoughts.
I think the reason why Greater Anglia close the end gangway is to prevent any unauthorise trespassing inside the staff booth and the driver's cab.
But the other electrostars with end gangways keep them open and don't seem to have a big problem with people trespassing in the drivers cab?
Completely wrong - a much more shocking reason. Gangway doors are closed because the units had a habit to split in service. This meant that trains were only 4 car for a while, and when allowed to run in multiple again, only up to 8 cars instead of 12.
@@LokiAvivson Greater Anglia 379s. 12 cars can fit at Stansted Airport, Stansted Mountfitchet, London Liverpool Street, Harlow Town, Sawbridgeworth, Audley End, Whittlesford Parkway, Cheshunt, Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock, Brimsdown, Ponders End, Meridian Water, Lea Bridge, Cambridge, Cambridge North and Ely
@@roastedfanta9474 You mean the West Anglia Main Line route
@@EpicThe112 No - they do not fit at some stations
Accessibility like on the Class 745 is super important though especially on an airport train and look much better imo, Stadler are on a roll lately, have no great affection for the 720 on the other hand...
Shouldn't have gotten the 720s, just a different EMU variant of the FLIRT
I think EMR should get ahold of the class 379s and use them alongside the unreliable 360s on the connect route between London-Corby. The 360s are in a bad need of a refurbishment
Good news They’re going to great northern finally the sexy beasts get a 2nd chance to show off their comfy quality built 1st class seats & those powerful older sister’s 357 motors cmon
Turbostar, ElectroStar and even CapitalStar. A great family of trains and in my opinion, BREL's greatest legacy.
The Turbostars, Elctrostars and Capitalstars were made by Bombardier Transportation not BREL.
Travel part of the route to work the problem with both 317 and 379 is lack of seating capacity and not that great at peak times on an 8 car formation has less seating than the 720 5 car although admit the seating in the 379s is far superior. July 2022 and a number of 317s are still appearing in either 8 car or 4 car formations and I wish they had kept using the 379s and ditched the 317s. You mentioned extension of platforms at Broxbourne this must be the loop platforms as platforms 2 and 3 already have capacity and 12 car 745s stop sometimes (early morning)as I've travelled on a 745 Broxbourne to Tottenham Hale and sometimes 10 car 720s. Ikea at Meridian Water is listed to close at an unspecified date and it would be great to have Crossrail 2 but it has been mothballed but the route protected against development in case it gets resurrected
I have gone on a train that stoped at hackney downs on a 317
Barring first class, I find the Southeastern 375/3,6,7,8 fleet to be more comfortable than 379s.
379s are the same as 387s I am correct? It’s just the interior that’s different the 387s use ironing board seats
387s are dual voltage whilst 379s are ac only, also 387s 110mph capable whilst 379s can only go at 100mph
I think the 720s are better with the accessibility, information display and functionality (you get both 3PP and USB plugs). That said, the 379 seats are much comfier and it’s not as hard to move through the train - though this problem would be solved by removing the third seat in the 720s. I do prefer the 379s, but only slightly as the 720s have grown on me.
Yes it's sad but inevitable with HM treasury calling the shots on the railway since renationalisation. They were nice comfortable trains. I even had the pleasure of riding one on the Harwich branch when they had a spell on there when the battery-running was trailled!
Greater Anglia are stupid withdrawing the class 379 they should of put some on the London Liverpool Street to Colchester town via Romford
@Train's All the 321s are going as well.
Some of the greater anglia class 321 have been refurbished and are still staying for a while but the un refurbished one have been withdrawn
@@Andrewjg_89 the greater anglia class 321 are still here as I saw one last week but they are the refurbished ones
379 should do stansted express, liv str to Norwich via Cambridge and Liverpool Street to King's Lynn
I disagree. The class 379 is quite a bland train inside and out, inside it can become very crowded at peak hours. The 745 are faster, comfier, and more efficient for the route. Look at Heathrow Express, the 332’s were brilliant and matched the route well. Now they have bland 387’s that are piss poor for airline routes! What were they thinking! 🤦♂️
The Class 332 replacement was needed for A) better efficient use of the GWML as it removes 100mph on the fast up and down tracks, seeing now 110 or 125 mph operation. B) but the main reason is because the Class 332’s due to their intense use were heavily worn out and heavily corroded meaning it would cost significantly more to maintain/overhaul/upgrade the Class 332s then to replace them.
I think the main 3 airport trains being electrostars is pretty cool!
Well it was the case, but only with gatwick and heathrow now
Cap🧢
@tr4905
745 looks ugly
I just don’t understand on why would Greater Anglia want to replace the Class 379 Electrostars. Heathrow Express could have had them and to be modified to operate between London Paddington-Heathrow T4 and Heathrow T5 and working as 8-Car and 12-Car formation. Or Great Northern could have inherited them to be used on London Kings Cross-King’s Lynn, Peterborough and Cambridge routes.
Great video. ☺️
Hello again Josh!
What is the world coming to with trains getting replaced after only 10 years of service.
Its a common theme in abellio run franchises these days, all they care about is the business saving money at the expense of newly introduced trains. 350/2s being another example from yet another abellio run franchise
It was too expensive to lease that’s why
Overall, the average British Rail train had a typical lifespan of 10 years. It’s not so new.
And trains in the south Wales valleys area are 35 years old !!!!!
@@ElliotsTrains Rubbish. Typical trains have a lifespan of between 30 and 40 years. Yes, there are many types that have been fairly short lived, mostly the Standard steam locos which were quickly replaced by diesels, and many of the modernisation plan and prototype diesels that were either experimental or just no good. You have the likes of the 20s, 31s, 37s, 47s which were still in mainstream use over 30 years after introduction and are still around in limited numbers today. Even some shorter lived types like the Deltics, 50s, 56s, 58s etc went on for over 20 years. Then you have the electrics, again some 1st generation types were short lived, but the 81s, 85s, 86s, 87s, 90s and 91s have all lasted at least 20-30 years if not longer. DMUs, again a few of the 1st generation types didn't last that long, but the 101s, 117s, 121s and a few other types all had long lives, up to 50 years in the case of the 101s. Pacers and Sprinters, 30+ years. EMUs have typically lasted 30-40 years too. The same goes for coaching stock.
Amazing
Brilliant video
Although I’ve only been on a 379 once I think it’s the best electro* and overall I think it would be a better replacement for the 387 on C2C
Angel Road one of the hardest Railway Stations on the planet to find. Well it was.
I Would Like To See The Ex Greater Anglia Class 379s With Great Northern Replacing The Class 387s If Possible 👍
Looks like that's going to happen later in 2024.......
It is phewwww
Perfect fleet for EMR. Shame really
I saw some of these trains last week
The biggest mistake was the rise of leasing prices, as no TOC shows interest to operate them for the same reason. So, replace with new fleet despite class 379 high quality standards to passengers, was perhaps the best decision. Stadler has goog products as well.
I like the 379's First Class. Look at it, people: 2+1 seating, big chunky seats with armrests, curtains and a table that can support the biggest of gaming laptops.
@@LokiAvivson I know. I'm just talking about the Class 379's First Class interior.
I hope that GX take them to replace the 387/2s they gave away
Then idd just make them hopefully do another circle around the railways
They can't, GX operate on 3rd rail, the 379s are OHLE only
There’s for in store at Norwich and don’t look to be as if there going anytime soon
Im a local on the Hertford branch. The 379s are so much better than the 720s in so many different ways
I don’t understand why they’re being replaced already
The franchise agreement told them they had to
Cost. Extremely expensive to lease and maintain compared to any other train on Greater Anglia
@@QuarioQuario54321 The franchise specification made no such requirement that the class 379s must be replaced. Abellio's franchise bid proposed that they would, because that was cheaper.
They should go to Northern to replace 319s
While that would be great, Northern are due to get more 323s to replace the 319s.
Rip class 379 now we just have the class 357 375 376 377 378 and the class 387
Doodling on a napkin, I would send the 350/2s to Great Northern to displace the 387s to Southern. The 379s I might send to EMR to replace the 360s. The 360s maybe to Northern or Scotrail?
The class 379 are way better than the class 720 as the class 720 have very narrow isles
Before the video started, I was wondering why you said in the title the 379 was amazing given that the Electrostars have been considered rubbish (387,375,377 to name a few), mainly because of the poor seating choice (aka iron board). That said, the seats do look comfortable (especially in 1st) compared to the other Electrostars.
have you seen the s stock being on ato please check it out
Where will they go
If perfectly good trains didn't get replaced by expensive new trains, how would certain government members get their kickbacks..??
Hmm, you realise that the 379s were more expensive to lease.
I hate UK for deciding to replace this train when it ISNT TOO OLD
i believe these trains are now all being kept in Norwich
Is there a way of telling what is declassified 1st class. Like a website??
wow !!- so very nice to read all the comments from the railway armchair experts !! clearly you all need to apply to the railway for jobs as you seem to know far more about railways and how they should run , rather than the professional people who are doing it for a living !!! I am impressed !!
I used to be a driver on GA I've retired now
I am not a fan of the new trains 3+2 layout; it makes the walkway a did difference to walk thought when you have multiple bags. Furthermore, it is not the best when you are sitting in the middle of the carriage and need to get off the train and it is packed.
the best operator for the 379s are EMR, cba to explain,just is
Class 745 is by far the best intercity train in Britain today and thus IT IS an improvement over the class 379. The 720 is laughably uncomfortable.
Mums bro & the 755 bi modes even the first class seating feels like a rolls Royce on the 379s don’t disappoint either icl that triple comfort padding & they used to do an at seat trolley service on the stansaid express until the 745/1s & the pre pandemic days
It's a real shame, as these trains were destined for the EMR Connect route between Corby and London St Pancras, and look very decent.
However the government decided instead to give EMR Connect the crappy 360's which we're now stuck with. We were told it was because this type of train could be upgraded to to operate at 110mph, but I'm sure the same is possible with the 379s.
We were promised the 360's would be fully refurbished before joining EMR in a new 2+2 seating configuration, nearly two years on there still no refurbished trains or plans for this to take place.
The reliability of the 360's is also a joke, the amount of times they are downgraded to a 4 carriage service due to one the adjoining unit breaking down is a frequent occurrence and run overcrowded.
It's due to the contact tips in the couplers I used to drive them
Umm hard to believe watching this video that trains that are 10 years old being replaced !!!!!puzzled when our valleys services are operated by 35 years old sprinter units !!!!!!
Not to mention TFL are still running 50 year old trains on the Bakerloo line
Greater anglia themselves don't want to operate trains built in 2011 but they operate trains built in 1982 (the class 317s) 🤣
It would help if the valleys were electrified Andrew Butler. Then maybe the 379's or even the ex Great Northern 365's could have been cascaded over to replace all the DMU's on valley lines services. (Sadly for the 365's though, it's too late)
Ooh
3:07 please tell me what map is this
These should have gone to EMR instead of the 360s
The thing that lots of people don’t understand is that while the old trains are lovely and comfortable they are beginning to become more costly to run. Companies are looking for cheaper options especially with the price of fuel and electricity at the moment. The equipment is often less efficient than the newer trains.
An electrostar is not old though
@@PeteS_1994 15-20 years old if im correct. not old but weirdly its cheaper to replace them
Not so much the operating cost. It’s the leasing cost which stung. The 379s owner is apparently not able to compromise…
Oh remmconded cool!
0:13 there 720s
c2c is a good option
No it is not, C2C don’t need the 379s as they are getting 720/6s.
I thought that they were going to keep the 379s until they got rid of the 317s . The 317s should have been scraped in 2013/15 due to the efficiency rating and maintenance problems.
Can you use Oyster for this journey? Are these trains still around?
These trains are off-lease and stored
@@andrewreynolds4949 Ah right ok
Yes
Rare to find
Very rare
In the world 1 persent
Is because were expeie to lese
I never realised 4 across seating out of first class was available in Anglia having only had years of grim travel on the commuter lines. They should ban the 3-2 across seating in the UK as there is just not enough room. Glad my need to use trains is over and it sounds like even cheaper and nastier is the ruling driver to pare the costs. Thank heaven for our motor cars which at least give us a chance for comfortable travel with adequate seating. Even sitting in a car held up by whatever activist of the moment is better than being crammed in to a train. One thing I am interested in is does the new stock they are using have the cable runs at the edge of the carriages which gives us nowhere to put our feet? The chronically small loading gauge in the UK compared to the rest of the planet is an enduring legacy of Victorian infrastructure. It makes any thought of comfort or even the pleasure of train travel I experienced in Europe difficult to come by on this sad overcrowded little island we live on.
I know why the 379s got relipeds
Is dumb to replase the 379s
379 should replace 317 and 321s
But that’s what the 720s are doing?
@@andrewreynolds4949 well the 379 could also be used to replace old trains instead of getting replaced by less-than-a-decade younger trains
@@goatgamer001 But they will have enough 720s when all of those are delivered. The 379s can go somewhere else I'm sure