The last London stop is officially Turkey street/enfield lock. But the oyster card works outside London so the last Oyster card stop is Broxbourne if you are going towards harlow/standstead or Hertford east after the line splits at Broxbourne.
@@8888k since when is being ‘confused’ grounds for people to say they are being cheated? It’s just an excuse for someone that can’t accept they got it wrong.
I'd say it is a deliberate trap. They will never admit it in a million years. To convert to contactless is really not that hard. With the fines generated already, it could have been in and paid for!! This is the heartless unaccountable society we live in. Fleece to gift the rich.
I am a pensioner. As a kid and as a young adult, I travelled by train a lot. Ticket office, ticket, cheap, no problem. Toiday's systems intimidate me. I am scared to travel by train, and have not done so for over 20 years. I drive everywhere. Also, I am not stupid, I have a PhD in science. Wish I could back to the 60s, 70s and 80s. Life was so much simpler, people focused, and not being ripped off all the time.
£50 give or take for each contactless point £500 each for the gates Save thousands in wages , it’s a trap as the alternative is far cheaper and they’re purposefully avoiding switching
@@Alphoric agree, I worked for a company that provides all kinds of passenger services at UK airports but more importantly the ticketing and gating systems for LU and UK railways. They rail service has no excuse! There is a solution, but they choose to not implement it.
There is a trap between Waterloo and Bank via the Waterloo and City line - there is no ticket barrier to gain access to the Waterloo platform. TfL have ticket inspectors waiting at Bank.
It's a money racket, the fact that Stansted Express was asked to go contactless for the Olympics way back in 2012 and nothing was done, speaks volumes.
No, I'd expect londoners to know what area is covered by Oyster and Contactless. Others going back should have noted they couldn't travel Contactless from Stanstead to London and therefore not the other way around? But the ticket inspectors are there since there are no barriers at Stanstead.
Failure to read, the customers are the problem then complaining about it. Ridiculous. I have to say that when I used to work at Stansted Airport you could always buy a ticket on the train without being subject to or paying a penalty fine but that was over 20 years ago! No, failure to read is the problem here and probably incorrect feedback that you can get a train journey hack. No sympathy for Stansted Express passengers.
@@eddherring4972 Whilst I am inclined to agree that failing to read and notice banner signs is a problem, you cannot say that its the problem. If its just one person or a small group of people, its incompetence on their part, when its a majority or large minority, then its systematic and needs reform or education. We don't make bottles of acid that look like water because we know people will be stupid and make mistakes, the purpose of a penalty fare is to deter illegitimate efforts to evade payment, it should not be used against honest people making a common mistake.
The decent thing to do is to either set up contactless in Stanstead, or allow people to pay the extra fare without fines at arrival. This is how it is done in Japan, you buy a ticket, but decided to get off at a later station, so the gates will not let you out. You go to a vending machine, insert you ticket, pay the difference and get a new ticket that will let you out.
They must make alot of money from these fines, Look at the amount of staff they have available. If they weren't profiting from this, it would have been fixed long ago.
@@jkasaunder228I was thinking the same thing, they don't want suggestions of efficient solutions from Japan or from common sense. They are clearly happy to create inefficiency/massive lines/admin & appeal work, unsatisfaction, embarrassment etc etc. Because for them and their shareholders, it's worth it.
They shouldn't let people through the barriers by tapping, it's clearly a deliberate trap. Edit: I have subsequently found out that the service is not direct and the tap barriers are for stops en route. I would still argue that the company knows this and instead of focusing on fines, they should focus on awareness and make sure people are aware before boarding.
Why should they not when there are 3 potential contactless destinations on the Stansted Express and those barriers access other services that are either 100% contactless stations or have a significant number of them?
You can't just disable contactless because that shifts the issue to Tottenham Hale where people would not be able to get on some services to Liverpool Street as a result
@@JoshLStuff Fair enough, I have never used it. I made an assumption that it was an express service without stopping. They clearly know that the fines are a good earner for them. It appears obvious that people are not deliberately avoiding the fare. Do they issue warnings once you have boarded the train.
@@gmo4250yes its odd because its actually simply the only service that goes there. I am not a frequent yser but i believe the trains call out "Oyster and Contactless are not valid beyond this station" where necessary
@@Bungle2010no it’s way too easy to blunder when the system permits you to tap in. That’s basically doubly true with foreign visitors. It should be a legal requirement that the system won’t let you in without a valid ticket and if that cannot be organised then collect fares in the train.
The fact they regard the amount of fines as "commercially sensitive" says enough about how it supports Greater Anglia's Profit and Loss statement. They are endeavouring to be as appealing as possible to their board and investors by dishing out the maximum number of penalty fares - implementing automation to enable contactless would shut down this revenue stream.
The fact that the train operator refuses to respond to requests for information is yet another example of the contempt that the Brits treat their customers. It will probably be a criminal act to breath in this tawdry country before long.
What you on about? Half the people suffering from it are Brits, just the heads of greateranglia profiting off it. We "Brits" are on the receiving end of this issue, not the giving end.
Don't kid yourself, same thing in France - we were entrapped in Nice, where you can't buy a ticket at the airport, nobody is there to help, but the system has plenty of money for the Inspectors (who dress like stormtroopers) to shake you down.
On the basis that a significant number of people are arriving at Stansted and being fined because they were under the impression that they could make the journey contactless. This surely would indicate that the signage is inadequate !!
People are to busy looking at their phones when they're traveling. Also if they are Londoners they should know that Stansted isn't in London and not within any zones. Always read signs when travelling.
Yeah - you're assuming that the travellers didn't already know... which I find doubtful! If they weren't caught, they'd save £15 by not buying a full ticket.
Surely it would be more reasonable for the staff they employ to fine unsuspecting passengers were instead deployed at the London end of the line to check the customers there have tickets before they board the train. It’s more humane to advise people than to punish them for making a genuine mistake.
I’ll forgive your Londoncentric view of the world as it’s quite common among those who rarely travel outside the city, but trains arrive at Stansted from all over the country. Not just Liverpool Street.
What bugs me more about this, is there are not inspectors on the train, but only at the airport. So you have to wait in a long line to get out of the station. If you are late for an expensive flight (possibly due to train delays) this is the last thing you need.
They know they are going to catch a lot of people out. An on board inspector might miss a fair few as it will take them time to explain the situation and issue the penalty fare. Also, if you’re on a train and you can hear this going on, you might twig and buy a ticket in your phone, so more lost penalty fares. The queue suits them as it maximises the penalty revenue.
@@pete1942 what a sad state of affairs but I tend to agree with you. They are not trying to help passengers or give them a chance to correct their mistake. They are actively seeking revenue from penalties.
@charleswhite758 They absolutely should. It would be very easy to direct anyone who joined the wrong queue to the correct one. And from the sounds of it. They have enough inspectors present to have 2 queues and someone directing you to the correct one before you join.
@charleswhite758 yes seems like that. If I was going to miss a flight I'd barge through too. Its not like their trains are ever on time... they should be handing cash back to the passengers 😂
Exactly my thought but the answer is obvious. Why charge people the fair price of a normal ticket when you can treat them like a criminal that needs to pay a much more expensive fine?
Because there's not as much profit in it for them! If the money didn't go to the train operator, that'd remove the incentive and they'd just do that...
The fact that they’re completely aware of a failure in the system but do absolutely nothing about it, other than gang up ready for the London passengers, shows it’s nothing less than a money making scheme. Disgraceful behaviour towards its customers.
@@Bungle2010 the message isn't clear and obvious enough. The rail company should be more proactive in its approach to solving the issue rather than rake in revenue off innocent travellers who've made a "genuine mistake." Why not arrange to stop and check for valid tickets BEFORE their journey starts? BTW, I've no sympathy for fair dodgers.
If you can't get there on contactless or Oyster, the airport should be legally forced to drop "London" from its name. That goes for Southend and Luton (and even more ridiculously Lydd and Oxford).
i disagree, but there definetely should be some restriction, like 'london ashford airport' is closer to france than london 💀 additionally, not everyone gets the train to the airport
I understand your sentiment, but unlike Stansted, Luton Airport is a place you can get on an Oyster/contactless, using mulitple train operating companies, same as for Gatwick and Heathrow, including on their respective "Express" services. Southend is supposed to get contactless/Oyster in spring.
@@wolf2965 luton has no oyster and no PAYG at all on the dart, heathrow's barriers (at paddington platform 6-8) literally says 'no oyster or contactless' and my contactless card didnt work anyway, i dont know about gatwick
This is such an obvious racket. In any other country this would be grounds for a class action lawsuit, and the company forced to pay compensation to everyone affected by this scam.
I grew up on this line. My family live in Stansted Mountfitchet, the little town one station away from Stansted Airport. The Express has been experimenting for years with this system. The ticket machines at Liverpool Street have been reduced and now are at the opposite end of the station to the Express platforms. They use minimal signage at the platform barriers and it's deliberately understaffed - the workers at the gate generally wave you through even if you don't touch in. They don't even have inspectors on the trains most of the time (they used to but got rid of them). They just use an army of inspectors at the airport end to hit the travellers with fines. Ker-ching!
This issue is easy to resolve. Just charge the additional fare to passengers exiting at Stansted station by employing tap to exit for the passengers using contactless payments or insert the paper ticket for passengers who purchased the fare upfront.
It would be a lot easier if the barriers were programmed to prevent customers going to Stansted from leaving the station. Customers would then have to buy a ticket.
@@Bungle2010 why not the entire railway system have a universal set price for all routes then.... its hard for some tourists who can easily get mistaken, so don't get why your being so edgy and blunt
Forget the fines, the legal tickets cost to get to Standard is criminal, it cost me £26 for a 35 minute train ride to get to "London" Stansted to get a 2 hour "flight" to Germany that cost £19 thats nuts, UK greed and pricing is disgusting what are we doing?, this type of stuff is destroying the country
I had a similar situation. I used my Apple Pay to tap in at fenchurch street station. I took the C2C service to benfleet. I was then met at benfleet with ticket officers who issued a fine due to it not being a contactless station. Stated I should of got off the train tapped out of the barriers at barking then walked back around bought a ticket and re boarded the next train to my destination. It sounds extremely stupid and as a 16 year old at the time, my father thought that it’s unacceptable to ask me to leave the train station and then re-enter etc… so when the fine wasn’t paid we was summoned to court where we got our solicitors involved. The judge ruled it was misleading and unfair. The case was dropped. We then summoned C2C to court for how misleading it was and taking advantage of people. There legal team was quick to make a out of court settlement with us where one of the conditions was they would put more appropriate and visible signage up of the non-contactless stations. Shame to see this sort of stuff is still going on. If anyone fancies a legal battle I’d say you stand a good chance. They will soon make the changes required when they realise it’s all going wrong for them.
even if i did understand the stansted issue (which i dont) this is even worse. why would they let you travel a whole hour, 34 miles, close to the beach on contactless? thats common sense. c2c also has announcements at upminster or something
@@mudchute4dlr why would they not? For example if I put my elderly nan on the train at London using her contactless card why would she then be expected to get off, leave the station, re-enter the station and then reboard the next available train. They know what they are doing is wrong that’s why 1) the judge ruled it in our favour and 2) if they thought what they were doing was correct they would of thought back or appealed on the counterclaim which they didn’t.
@@TheDrew1234able you dont touch in with contactless in the first place? its really obvious that the southend area is too far to be in the PAYG fare zone
@@mudchute4dlr but why would I not use contactless when it’s the easiest option and it’s working at the departure station? You must understand where I’m coming from, there’s no malice behind it. I just tap in and think I can tap Out at the other end
@@TheDrew1234able because of what I said, I'd you have common sense you would know that 30 miles from London is too far to accept contactless in the first place. the fact that it works at london fenchurch doesn't change the fact that common sense exists
It's a revenue stream for Stansted municipality and they won't be giving it up soon. The fact that they employ a dozen ticket checking agents and enforcers (paying their wages) would indicate that they are making good money from it.
what missing from this report: when on the train you hear announcement about Oyster & contactless pagy isn't expected at Stansted Airport. If have a smart phone you could buy a ticket before arriving at Stansted airport
The problem with that is, that having tapped in to get on the train you would still need to tap out somewhere to avoid a penalty charge on your Oyster or debit card. Not sure what the amount is but it's important, if tap in then you have to tap out, at some point. Tapping in then buying a ticket on your smart phone effectively is like buying 2 tickets. Probably still cheaper than the fine though.
@@robinpunter4377 If you tap in, but fail to tap out, you are charged the maximum fare for the day. You can get a refund though, if you have a valid excuse. In this instance, you could say you tapped in by mistake and provide your ticket to Stansted as evidence
WORKING EXACTLY how it was designed!! Not 1 person on the ENTRY SIDE to tell passengers they need a paper ticket, 20 at the final destination with ARMED THUGS to extract 3x the ticket price..... SCAM!
Although you can say that it is passengers' responsibility to read the sign, the "Red Army" at the exit shows that Greater Anglia has the intention to set up this tourist trap and earns thousands of extra money from it. What a disgrace of our railway system NOT putting passenger first!
@@grassytramtracksor if they queue up to tap out via the inspectors. They’d just buy a ticket on their phone if they knew they were about to get caught.
Don’t give them your name. If you do you will be fined. Happened to me, they said they will call the police, I noticed two police officers and shouted them over and explained what’s happened. I was offered to pay my original fare, no fine, no details given to anyone. Never give any details whatever they say.
The relevant management is at fault; they are either allowing this to happen on purpose, or they aren't up to the job of setting up the system correctly. In either case they aren't up to the job and should be sacked. Anyone involved who has authority over this and is doing nothing to fix it should be sacked too. Rotten people. Useless people. Causing unnecessary pain for decent people.
If there are plenty of people - with a salary - on the other end to collect, it means that the company operating the Standsted Express knows what is happening. However, they do not care, as they have placed signage, and have the perfect arguments. To be honest, as a citizen, I find that unacceptable! This is a (formal) scam.
Just got back from the Netherlands. Managed to travel across the entire country on buses, trains, trams etc all even in the most remote areas, with my card. Contactless is the norm and a country like the UK needs to catch
There are even different tariffs between all public transport operators, but there are always card readers or gates when you transfer between them with clear signing.
I encountered this on the rail from London to Hildenborough. Announcement in train at last station for contactless made me get off, run around with my baggage and find tickets to continue. Very difficult for tourists.
That's because at the entrance there's about 17 different platforms, most of which allow contactless and oyster payments for the journeys, hence why all barriers allow you to tap in. You can't just put a handful of inspectors checking all 17 platforms, so it's better to put them at the end of the destination where only 1 type of ticket is accepted. It's common sense.
Shhh rags is fighting for the poor oppressed London holiday maker who spends most the grain journey saying how much they hate stansted as it’s tacky etc and so beneath them normally 😊
if money came out of your account for tapping then its they that are breaking their own rules. ie you paid in good faith, take it to court or appeal, the fact that they are fining you means they think you are guilty before been given chance to prove innocence. its disgusting.
But that’s not how it works. You won’t have paid the correct fair. Hence the fine. This isn’t a pay what you like service. It’s a specified train with a specific ticket requirement.
@@007floppyboyI suspect there is nowhere to tap out at Stansted, so the maximum daily charge for not being able to do that, may apply too. effectively paying twice for the first part of the journey. I wonder what they would do if you argue you just want to pay from where the TFL zones end, and just need a ticket for the remainder of the journey. Agreed about the so called 'fines' 👍
Are the ticket barriers actually, as the report says, 'Stansted Express barriers' or just ordinary barriers used to access various platforms at London Liverpool Street station. If it's the latter, then there's nothing that can be done about it unless Stansted Airport becomes part of the PAYG area. To completely prevent passengers for Stansted Airport from touching in, TfL would have to deactivate Oyster card and contactless card payments on all ticket barriers, but since Greater Anglia serves dozens of stations within the PAYG area, that's not an option.
True. Plus not only does the ticket barrier have access to multiple platforms, the Stansted Express train itself calls at stations before the airport that do accept contactless payment
You can use contactless on the Stanstead Express between Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale, and it is the quickest way to get between those two stations.
As someone reasonably suggested in another comment. If you want to call yourself a "London" airport, I think you should be obliged to join the PAYG area.
@@Bungle2010 I’m speaking about the lack of adequate signage informing customers that they required a ticket for the only train to any airport in the Greater London area that you actually needed a ticket for. (That also lets you swipe an Oyster card to get through but not out of the barriers. So, not complete nonsense Mr West
This happened to me at Epsom a good few years ago. When they tried to fine me, I gave them the cost of the ticket, and my contact details only. They sent me a letter saying _"Pay the full fine or we'll take you to court."_ and I replied _"Okay then, let's settle this in court."_ I never heard from them again. I don't know if this strategy would still work. But it might be worth a try if you're feeling belligerent.
That would be fun. Many are tourists and have foreign addresses and residence. The |Stansted Express staff cannot 'arrest' or detain people and would need to have a permanent police presence to do so, which the BTP would not fund. It would be interesting to see how they would proceed with court summonses to someone not resident in the UK!
@@11nitrox Yeah, as I understand it, the only crimes are: Deliberately evading the fare. Or refusing to give the inspector your true contact details. So I think even the transport police can't detain you simply for having the wrong ticket.
In Glasgow when getting on the train, and the ticket machine is broken, and no inspector comes on the train. You arrive at Glasgow Central with no ticket, you have two choices, buy your ticket at one of the machines. Or head to the gate, with no ticket and get fined, plus fare. Now if you think, I will cheat with the ticket machine, and put in the wrong outward journey, the tickets inspector will know this to be fraudulent. As they know stations are manned, and the ticket machines work So why cant Stansted do something similar, and allow passengers to buy tickets, and avoid the penalty
I‘m not a big fan of Stansted, but if you get flights to Germany or whatever for less than £20, I‘d consider going to Stansted. I mean, what are the alternatives? A minimum £100 flight from Heathrow or something. But I’ve never got the Stansted Express, it’s just an obvious tourist trap that Greater Anglia uses. National Express is way cheaper and, if you manage to get their newer buses, even more comfy than the train.
As people are tapping in but not tapping out they will be charged the maximum fare for the day. They may be able to get a refund. A maximum of three refunds a month can be claimed if you have a valid reason.
The only scam here is the shitty journalism that conveniently left out all the signs warning passengers contactless/oyster is not valid to Stansted, didn't play the audio or visual announcements on the train also warning this and made it look like the train was non-stop from Liverpool Street to Stansted when it in fact stops at several stations WITHIN London which is where those using contactless can correctly travel to on this train.
If their bully boys put their hands on you or stop you leaving it’s assault and you call the police and press charges. Plus, you are not obligated to pay any respective fine on the spot. You have 14 days. This is illegal.
The issue is that the trains stop in london (which was conveniently ignored in this broadcast) which is why they let you on so there *is* a reason. Obviously they could not stop the trains at Tottenham Hale but that's one of the main routes to Stansted. BUT allowing contactless all the way would solve everything tottaly agree with that so they *do* need to sort it out. London is no worse than anywhere else in this regard though, try the Rome bus system...
I get why you can use contactless on Stansted Express, as people may just use it to hop between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. Whilst yes, it does say no contactless to Stansted, i do think fining people for it is a tad harsh, when it should really just be the fare they have to pay. Though ideally, contactless really ought to go to Stansted sooner, as this is a easily fixable mistake.
Other people have said that contactless/Oyster IS valid on Stansted Express between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. That makes this doubly confusing.
@@Bungle2010 Confusing for some people as Stansted is known as"London Stansted" so obviously it could be mistaken for being in the travel card zone. But obviously pedantic people like would phrase everything as "Oh but Everybody should Be Born knowing this". What a load of wibble you spew
Interestingly some operators are a lot more lenient. Northern have penalty fares but usually if you take the initiative to find the train guard and ask to buy a ticket, they'll just sell you the ticket. Or equally you hop on and buy an eticket on your phone... don't get me wrong, there are a couple of arsey guards, but most of them know it's less stress to just sell John Who Doesn't Use The Trains Very Often a valid ticket at walk-on rate, and save the penalty fares for the deliberate and repeat offenders.
@@electrickery Which is absolutely nothing like we're talking about here is it. Doesn't use trains often is a poor excuse. It's called common sense and using the eyes you were born with............
I have to pay more for Stansted Express than my plane ticket to London. That is already ludicrous. Fortunately I managed to navigate the UK rail system without getting fined, but I admit it can be confusing with dozens of train operators on the same tracks, some tickets are interoperable others not, off-peak, on-peak, advance etc.And the ticket prices? That alone feels like getting fined for having the audicity of using public transit.
@@Bungle2010 Shame the rail company Greater Anglia they are making a great deal of money out of genuine travellers. Perhaps they should employ staff to tell people before boarding the train rather than lots of staff to collect fines and ticket monies at the other end 🤔
This has caught me out too. They know exactly what they’re doing, it’s essentially legalised robbery. The “signage” is pathetic. Tottenham Hale is even worse than Liverpool Street.
I think Tottenham Hale has changed recently. The signage there is more prominent than at Liverpool Street. It made me stop in my tracks as a normal ticket holder.
@@aspzxI’ll check it out next time - I do hope so! Though early at TH sometimes you’re directed not via the main entrance too and instead walk straight up to platform on a side staircase. Not sure when/why that occurs.
Well, sounding like a NR train in london, you board contactless if you travel withing the payg area, or take a ticket if you go beyond. You are suposed doing your due diligence before boarding, what's different with stansted?
London has one of the most confusing tickets options I've seen anywhere. As a tourist, do you get TravelCard, do you use Oyster pay as you go with day cap ? What is capped in day cap, what is not, what about weekly (or monthly cap) that is recalculated well after the fact ?
What I find so odd as well is that I travel to stations outside London Primally Reading though and Reading is a contactless station and is outside of the London area. So like I would assume no oyster as that's what Reading is but no contactless makes no sense.
Because the service provides regular service to Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt and Broxbourne which each are in the contactless/oyster zone. Each of those have no separation at all in the barriers between standard and Stansted services. You can also often access other oyster zone train services from the same platforms at Liverpool Street. They are often not exclusive "Stansted Express platforms" as this report makes out
Clearly the signs are not as visable as they should be, when a massive crowd those floor notices would be all covered up, overhead warnings are totally needed fora start
tell me, where do you look at when you are touching your contactless or oyster card on the reader? you look at the reader, right? so why can't you read the big fat text on the reader that says 'stop' at least, then stop to read the other four words? its not difficult. the top half of the reader with the text also has a red background which is more attracting to the brain or something like that
@@mudchute4dlr Why design a ticket gate with a touch reader, specifically designed to speed people through and then expect people to stop before going through? Why have a ticket gate which beeps and opens, like all the other ticket gates in London, when you present a valid PAYG card or Oyster and expect people to know that on this specific occasion the gate opening does not mean their ticket is good for travel? Why have such a confusing rule for one London airport that doesn't apply to most of the others? Why plaster the gate stanchion and paddles with advertising if you want people to focus on the tiny reader instead? Why not sell tickets on the train if you know thousands are passing through with out realising they haven't paid properly? Why? Because Stansted Express know they are onto a money spinner and have no intention of doing anything to provide a better service, when they can employ a phalanx of uniformed goons to fleece customers of their money on arrival at Stansted. I wonder if those staff get a bonus the more they take? I wonder if that bonus would disappear if they just sold regular tickets at the airport instead of imposing penalty fares...
Unfortunately people expect staff/government to hold their hand and drag them onto the train and do everything for them. Passenger mentality on British railway really has fallen off the cliff@@mudchute4dlr
1:09 it literally says on the ground that you can’t use contactless or oyster on stanstead services. The reason you can touch in there is because other Greater Anglia and even overground services leave from Liverpool Street and you can use contactless on them. Our railway ticketing system is a minefield but please at least try to do your research... in London you’re lucky that the system does all the working out for you, here in the Home Counties we have to guess whether it’s off peak, super off peak, peak, HS1, non HS1, etc etc.
When you're not looking for this putting a sigh on the floor won't help. There are countless signs all over that people stopped paying attention to them, unless they are looking for something specific. When you're able to use contactless everywhere and you get to the train station to go to a London airport you won't look for a sigh to see if you can pay with contactless for this specific train, especially when the fare gates have a contactless option and that you see others use it. Blaming the passengers is not the way to go.
@@AL5520 Yup, exactly! I was a bit on the fence but the mayor and guy at the end had a great point, if you’re gonna call yourself a London airport then you should act like a London airport. Literally everything in London is done by contactless usually using your phone, and when I say literally everything, I really mean… (strike that) am only be very slightly hyperbolic. Food, drink, pubs, trains, cabs, buses, bikes, stupid cable car things, boats, trams, shops, even homeless people, and beggars and a million other things all use contactless. Heard the phrase: Cash is King? Well not in London, Apple Pay & Google Pay rule the streets here, with Mastercard, Visa, & Amex contactless not far behind. So, the mindset of any Londoner would be: If contactless card open gate, contactless card okay. I do good. I buy ticket. No fine. Then as the guy I’m replying to also mentioned you have the signs, and their point is so perfect it needs nothing added to it, there are so many bloody signs everywhere, you can’t read all of them and your sorts tuned out to most of them. Since they’re usually irrelevant to you, or say something stupid and obvious. Plus, there’s always signs that say “buy a ticket or face a penalty fare”. But once again: Contactless card open gate. Contactless card okay. I buy ticket. No fine. Also, there may be other platforms but these are the Stansted Express branded gates.
Also correct me if I’m wrong, as I usually use KC & St.P or Euston and I haven’t taken a train for L.St Station for a while, but aren’t the platforms separated as well. Like not completely but for example you go through one gate and once you go through your locked into an area (essentially) made up of say 5 platforms, maybe 10, which is why if you get it wrong you then need to ask the person at barrier nicely to let you out so you can go to the right area? Which makes it feel like a specific standard express area, so to speak. Again though, I haven’t been to L. St Station for ages, I can picture it in my head but it’s mixed up with the last time I went there about 2 years ago and then the hundreds of times over the last 28 years, which is why I still sometimes think the 214 ends up there. Poor 214, at least it still exists, my beloved C2 sadly went out to pasture.
@@hunyesmith03 Stansted express trains share platforms with london overground and other greater Anglia services all which have some form of contactless acceptance due to them stopping at other stations within the london fare zones additionally many Stansted Express trains stop at Tottenham hale which you can use contactless for
You can absolutely use oyster on Stansted Express between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale, and even Northumberland Park is Spurs are playing at home and they stop the trains there.
This is similar to how local councils entrap motorists. It’s effectively fraud by those in authority, i.e. using deceptive means to extract money. Because it raises huge amounts of money, those in power have no incentive to change the system. Unfortunately, such misbehaviour by those in power is becoming commonplace in the UK now.
This is not the same. Sorry but you are attaching a totally different level of enforcement. Traffic signage has to follow very strict statutory guidelines to be deemed sufficient to enforce restrictions. Most councils make very little actual profit from traffic enforcement and this is not the same at all.
@corneliussmiff2773 wrong my local council have had nearly 1 million in fines for a time restricted right turn. That a lot of people don't know about.
@@empressdoinalot I can't be wrong, what I said was a fact. Local authorities are bound by very strick statutory regulations when it comes to signage and road markings etc. If they do not meet these requirements or are found to be defective then the said authority gets in a lot of trouble.Just because your local authority had nearly one million in Penalty Charge Notices (not fines by the way) does not seem it as insufficient, and if those people didn't know about it, than it's their own fault. However, IF the signage or markings were defective under the statutory requirements, then this is a different issue and the authority would be under alot of scrutiny and can be challenged.
This is crazy and completely unacceptable. It's simply not fair to expect international travelers to know this rule. Something must be done urgently by the government to put a end to this.
It's a bit of a journey to Stansted airport from Liverpool street station. We should have a second barrier at this platform for the Stansted express train. Then people who are traveling using an oyster card would not allow them to pass.
There seems to be a purge on everyone at the moment to part people with their money when things are difficult as they are. This could be soon remedy by putting contactless in place for stansted the same way it was for London Gatwick
@@mudchute4dlr I won’t use it because For me, Heathrow and Gatwick are cheaper to get to. Plus I don’t need to piss about buying extra train tickets when you can just use contactless, even if there are signs in your face and announcements.
Surely it’s cheaper to just enable contactless touch in and out than employ an army of “collectors” and “enforcement agents”, make it make sense Department for Transport 😂
@@jezp1976 Given the Department for Transport is a government agency, I don’t think they are profit motivated. Instead, they’re just being lazy and hoping no one with a voice that matters says anything about it
That would require uniform contactless payments at every station in the country. Stansted travellers don’t all live crammed around Liverpool Street station.
@@jezp1976 Abellio are not the ones who install the gates at either end, that is the responsibility of the Department for Transport. Abellio is just capitalising on the situation that the DfT allows to happen
It’s certainly what a fare evader would do, rather than take the fine, but this just confirms that these people are not fare evaders, but genuinely unaware they have done anything wrong.
Thank you for this, its been a burden for years, don't stop there, dig a little and you will find that this is very lucrative as they have KNOWN about this for quite awhile and the decision to continue this came from way up the chain. May I suggest a Public information request, specifically the board members.. just to say they will not revel all, but will give you an idea how far this goes. ~Trooper
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 can you read when you are stressed? yes. so why cant people read the four words on signs (in which there are in fact too many of) that say no oyster or contactless?
They could have a ticket inspector on each train to check if each passenger has a ticket and if not sell them one - or make a seperate barrier for the Stanstead express where you cannot use contactless but have to use a paper ticket - but both would not make them as much money as the fines imposed on people who have made a genuine mistake (just a thought)!
stansted express have their own barriers. The thing is that you can't force people going to tottenham hale go an hour one route instead of taking the stansted express
This has to be an incredibly lucrative station. You just need to place a few people at the end to collect fines and almost automatically you will make huge profits out of it. Legally, no one can say anything about it, because there are signs. Obviously, as the huge number of people who have been fined shows, a lot of people don‘t notice those signs, perhaps due to the large amount of signs and ads all around us each day, perhaps because tapping in and out is something many people do so often each day that it has become an automatic action, handled on a subconscious level. If you are making so much money out of fining people who have no intention of boarding a train without a ticket, you are a scammer though. Not legally, just morally. But of course, private train companies won’t care about that. A problem like that can only be solved politically.
There are so many signs at Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale. There are A boards everywhere and often staff at the barriers advising people. Of course the barrier lets you through they are not Stansted only barriers. All that said it’s a disgrace that you can’t use contactless to the airport like others
Totally agree, i used a wheely laptop case , the guard at Tottenham Hale stopped me because he thought i was going to the airport and was going to tell me i needed a ticket. When i told him where i was going he was fine.
Something similar happenned to me when travelling from London to Oxford with a ticket, I bought online. There are those machines, where you are supposed to make one additional step to obtain your actual ticket, which I did not know, the instructions in the e-mail were very vague and hidden in the fine print below an advertisement. There were no barriers on the stations and the ticket inspector demanded that I buy another ticket. Trains in Britain are shameful, overpriced tourist traps. But so is Stansted airport - one giant tourist trap, whose managers hate their customers and make sure that the travellers will suffer at every step.
You mean the 'very' vague statement 'Collect your ticket before you board with this code # and you original payment card from the automated ticket machines or booking office'. Yeah i can see how that would confuse 'some' people.🤦♀
they shouldnt need to put any signs for journeys on the great west or chiltern main lines as its pretty obvious reading and beyond on great west, and amersham and beyond on chiltern, is realky far out of london and should not accept contactless
4:35 isnt there a way to calculate the profiteering by companies issuing 'fines' as they will contribute to the companies' accounts - especially as the Government now have financial responsibility directly over the railways?
I work as an independent auditor and travel this route weekly. There are audio messages warning contactless is not valid beyond Tottenham Hale and there are untold signs all over. The more important thing is that contactless is limited to the travelcard zones with SOME exceptions. If you just make the assumption that you are going 50 minutes outside London and it is on the travelcard zone without checking when Stansted does not appear on any tube map then it really is the persons own fault and they need to take some responsibility.
The fact that there are legions of people at ten airports, and none making the point at the London end tells you all you need to know about these crooks. This is entrapment pure and simple.
![Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ORzNZUeUHAM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]](/img/tr.png)
That’s not a failure in the system, it’s a trap working exactly as designed
The last London stop is officially Turkey street/enfield lock. But the oyster card works outside London so the last Oyster card stop is Broxbourne if you are going towards harlow/standstead or Hertford east after the line splits at Broxbourne.
What complete and utter rubbish.
@@Bungle2010 Stop with the angry bluntness
@@grime_garage and even still, the Stansted express stops at Broxbourne+Cheshunt a couple of times a day
@@seaside-dn8dp what did i miss? What was bungles moan about?
They could always have the inspectors at the other end stopping the passengers making that mistake.
Then they lose £1m a year in giving people fines. its a scam... thats why the barriers lets them passed.
Of course, they chose not to do this!
Completely impractical.
@@wazitSomethingISaid Why wouldn’t people be let passed?
@@RTWuk No it’s called the real world.
The train company is taking advantage of passengers' ignorance and confusion. This is morally bankrupt behaviour.
ignoarance for sure. theres enough signs on that barrier to clearly state no contactless or oyster.
Why when everywhere else it works? Could it just be the million quid a year they collect in fines?@@fluffysamuraicrusader7957
No - people choose to ignore the information and travel without a valid ticket. That’s against the law.
@@Bungle-UKHe’s obviously well aware that it’s illegal 😂
He’s saying they’re confused, not doing it on purpose.
@@8888k since when is being ‘confused’ grounds for people to say they are being cheated? It’s just an excuse for someone that can’t accept they got it wrong.
I'd say it is a deliberate trap. They will never admit it in a million years. To convert to contactless is really not that hard. With the fines generated already, it could have been in and paid for!! This is the heartless unaccountable society we live in. Fleece to gift the rich.
I am a pensioner. As a kid and as a young adult, I travelled by train a lot. Ticket office, ticket, cheap, no problem. Toiday's systems intimidate me. I am scared to travel by train, and have not done so for over 20 years. I drive everywhere. Also, I am not stupid, I have a PhD in science. Wish I could back to the 60s, 70s and 80s. Life was so much simpler, people focused, and not being ripped off all the time.
@@malcolmabram2957 Same here.
£50 give or take for each contactless point £500 each for the gates
Save thousands in wages , it’s a trap as the alternative is far cheaper and they’re purposefully avoiding switching
@@Alphoric agree, I worked for a company that provides all kinds of passenger services at UK airports but more importantly the ticketing and gating systems for LU and UK railways. They rail service has no excuse! There is a solution, but they choose to not implement it.
There is a trap between Waterloo and Bank via the Waterloo and City line - there is no ticket barrier to gain access to the Waterloo platform. TfL have ticket inspectors waiting at Bank.
It's a money racket, the fact that Stansted Express was asked to go contactless for the Olympics way back in 2012 and nothing was done, speaks volumes.
The fact that it pays to have so many more ticket checks employed at Stansted than London Liverpool Street suggests theirs a failure in the system.
No it's a failure in people being able to run their lives.
No, I'd expect londoners to know what area is covered by Oyster and Contactless. Others going back should have noted they couldn't travel Contactless from Stanstead to London and therefore not the other way around?
But the ticket inspectors are there since there are no barriers at Stanstead.
Failure to read, the customers are the problem then complaining about it. Ridiculous.
I have to say that when I used to work at Stansted Airport you could always buy a ticket on the train without being subject to or paying a penalty fine but that was over 20 years ago!
No, failure to read is the problem here and probably incorrect feedback that you can get a train journey hack. No sympathy for Stansted Express passengers.
@@eddherring4972 Whilst I am inclined to agree that failing to read and notice banner signs is a problem, you cannot say that its the problem. If its just one person or a small group of people, its incompetence on their part, when its a majority or large minority, then its systematic and needs reform or education.
We don't make bottles of acid that look like water because we know people will be stupid and make mistakes, the purpose of a penalty fare is to deter illegitimate efforts to evade payment, it should not be used against honest people making a common mistake.
@@PCDelorian I’d liken that to a speed camera which catches thousands of speeders. No further explanation needed.
The decent thing to do is to either set up contactless in Stanstead, or allow people to pay the extra fare without fines at arrival.
This is how it is done in Japan, you buy a ticket, but decided to get off at a later station, so the gates will not let you out. You go to a vending machine, insert you ticket, pay the difference and get a new ticket that will let you out.
They must make alot of money from these fines, Look at the amount of staff they have available. If they weren't profiting from this, it would have been fixed long ago.
Japan is an example of how civilised humans can be. And UK an example of how petty and obese humans can be.
Japan is awesome.
@@jkasaunder228I was thinking the same thing, they don't want suggestions of efficient solutions from Japan or from common sense. They are clearly happy to create inefficiency/massive lines/admin & appeal work, unsatisfaction, embarrassment etc etc.
Because for them and their shareholders, it's worth it.
Exactly, since that's what people think that they're doing anyway. But £1.5m says no.
They shouldn't let people through the barriers by tapping, it's clearly a deliberate trap.
Edit:
I have subsequently found out that the service is not direct and the tap barriers are for stops en route. I would still argue that the company knows this and instead of focusing on fines, they should focus on awareness and make sure people are aware before boarding.
Why should they not when there are 3 potential contactless destinations on the Stansted Express and those barriers access other services that are either 100% contactless stations or have a significant number of them?
You can't just disable contactless because that shifts the issue to Tottenham Hale where people would not be able to get on some services to Liverpool Street as a result
@@JoshLStuff
Fair enough, I have never used it. I made an assumption that it was an express service without stopping. They clearly know that the fines are a good earner for them. It appears obvious that people are not deliberately avoiding the fare. Do they issue warnings once you have boarded the train.
@@gmo4250yes its odd because its actually simply the only service that goes there. I am not a frequent yser but i believe the trains call out "Oyster and Contactless are not valid beyond this station" where necessary
They probably would have done that, but intermediate stations on the route have contactless readers there.
It's every bit as dishonest as mugging, these people are shameless.
Rubbish. This is people trying to blame others for their own blunders.
@monipenny408 How about some personal responsibility? 🙄
@@Bungle2010no it’s way too easy to blunder when the system permits you to tap in. That’s basically doubly true with foreign visitors. It should be a legal requirement that the system won’t let you in without a valid ticket and if that cannot be organised then collect fares in the train.
Lol, mate what world do you live in….. there are massive signs everywhere. I travel through Liverpool Street and see the signs everywhere
It’s the same IF! You go in to an area where there are hundreds of signs saying ‘YOU WILL BE MUGGED COMING HERE’ and you ignore them and get mugged
The fact they regard the amount of fines as "commercially sensitive" says enough about how it supports Greater Anglia's Profit and Loss statement. They are endeavouring to be as appealing as possible to their board and investors by dishing out the maximum number of penalty fares - implementing automation to enable contactless would shut down this revenue stream.
It shows that the train operator is aa dodgy operator
The fact that the train operator refuses to respond to requests for information is yet another example of the contempt that the Brits treat their customers. It will probably be a criminal act to breath in this tawdry country before long.
Every single ‘Brit’?
What do you expect them to say? The truth is people are making their own beds to lie in.
The train operator is Dutch, I believe.
What you on about? Half the people suffering from it are Brits, just the heads of greateranglia profiting off it. We "Brits" are on the receiving end of this issue, not the giving end.
Don't kid yourself, same thing in France - we were entrapped in Nice, where you can't buy a ticket at the airport, nobody is there to help, but the system has plenty of money for the Inspectors (who dress like stormtroopers) to shake you down.
On the basis that a significant number of people are arriving at Stansted and being fined because they were under the impression that they could make the journey contactless. This surely would indicate that the signage is inadequate !!
Can’t teach ignorant. The clip shows perfectly adequate signage. Passenger ignorance is the problem
People are to busy looking at their phones when they're traveling. Also if they are Londoners they should know that Stansted isn't in London and not within any zones. Always read signs when travelling.
Anyone with eyes can read the signs, see the departure board or view the website.
@@DM-ur8vc really lining up the excuses aren’t you - they announce it in the train and it’s in a zillion languages on their website.
Yeah - you're assuming that the travellers didn't already know... which I find doubtful! If they weren't caught, they'd save £15 by not buying a full ticket.
Surely it would be more reasonable for the staff they employ to fine unsuspecting passengers were instead deployed at the London end of the line to check the customers there have tickets before they board the train. It’s more humane to advise people than to punish them for making a genuine mistake.
How would that even work? It's not a "mistake" it's incomptance.
More humane, but les profitable for Abellio.
I’ll forgive your Londoncentric view of the world as it’s quite common among those who rarely travel outside the city, but trains arrive at Stansted from all over the country. Not just Liverpool Street.
@@Bungle2010 You must be an inspector,. it's a total trap and in bad faith, Shame on you.
@@linesided No it's not. The signs are very, very clear. And what kind of loon expects to use a train without buying a ticket????
What bugs me more about this, is there are not inspectors on the train, but only at the airport. So you have to wait in a long line to get out of the station. If you are late for an expensive flight (possibly due to train delays) this is the last thing you need.
They know they are going to catch a lot of people out. An on board inspector might miss a fair few as it will take them time to explain the situation and issue the penalty fare. Also, if you’re on a train and you can hear this going on, you might twig and buy a ticket in your phone, so more lost penalty fares. The queue suits them as it maximises the penalty revenue.
@@pete1942 what a sad state of affairs but I tend to agree with you. They are not trying to help passengers or give them a chance to correct their mistake. They are actively seeking revenue from penalties.
@charleswhite758 They absolutely should. It would be very easy to direct anyone who joined the wrong queue to the correct one. And from the sounds of it. They have enough inspectors present to have 2 queues and someone directing you to the correct one before you join.
@charleswhite758 yes seems like that. If I was going to miss a flight I'd barge through too. Its not like their trains are ever on time... they should be handing cash back to the passengers 😂
Disgraceful treatment of paying passengers. What a horrible country Britain is.
Absolutely disgusting. If they have ticket collectors at the barrier then why not just collect the fare.
Exactly my thought but the answer is obvious. Why charge people the fair price of a normal ticket when you can treat them like a criminal that needs to pay a much more expensive fine?
Because there's not as much profit in it for them! If the money didn't go to the train operator, that'd remove the incentive and they'd just do that...
The fact that they’re completely aware of a failure in the system but do absolutely nothing about it, other than gang up ready for the London passengers, shows it’s nothing less than a money making scheme. Disgraceful behaviour towards its customers.
Do what about it? Put up very obvious signs? Oh wait………
@@Bungle2010 the message isn't clear and obvious enough. The rail company should be more proactive in its approach to solving the issue rather than rake in revenue off innocent travellers who've made a "genuine mistake." Why not arrange to stop and check for valid tickets BEFORE their journey starts? BTW, I've no sympathy for fair dodgers.
@@johnkoenig8739 How could they be more obvious??? You’re just being silly. And it’s just not practical to check before boarding.
@@Bungle2010 stop being so blunt ffs
@@seaside-dn8dp 🤔
If you can't get there on contactless or Oyster, the airport should be legally forced to drop "London" from its name. That goes for Southend and Luton (and even more ridiculously Lydd and Oxford).
💯
i disagree, but there definetely should be some restriction, like 'london ashford airport' is closer to france than london 💀
additionally, not everyone gets the train to the airport
If that law was introduced, they would introduce ticket barriers at Stansted within a month lol.
I understand your sentiment, but unlike Stansted, Luton Airport is a place you can get on an Oyster/contactless, using mulitple train operating companies, same as for Gatwick and Heathrow, including on their respective "Express" services. Southend is supposed to get contactless/Oyster in spring.
@@wolf2965 luton has no oyster and no PAYG at all on the dart, heathrow's barriers (at paddington platform 6-8) literally says 'no oyster or contactless' and my contactless card didnt work anyway, i dont know about gatwick
This is such an obvious racket. In any other country this would be grounds for a class action lawsuit, and the company forced to pay compensation to everyone affected by this scam.
I grew up on this line. My family live in Stansted Mountfitchet, the little town one station away from Stansted Airport. The Express has been experimenting for years with this system. The ticket machines at Liverpool Street have been reduced and now are at the opposite end of the station to the Express platforms. They use minimal signage at the platform barriers and it's deliberately understaffed - the workers at the gate generally wave you through even if you don't touch in. They don't even have inspectors on the trains most of the time (they used to but got rid of them). They just use an army of inspectors at the airport end to hit the travellers with fines. Ker-ching!
Shameless, greedy bullying behaviour
This issue is easy to resolve. Just charge the additional fare to passengers exiting at Stansted station by employing tap to exit for the passengers using contactless payments or insert the paper ticket for passengers who purchased the fare upfront.
Why would they do that? They make thousands from the fines
Except you are required to be in possession of a valid ticket prior to travel and they aren't.
Who? And it's not a fine it's penalty fare. Fines can only be issue by a court.
It would be a lot easier if the barriers were programmed to prevent customers going to Stansted from leaving the station. Customers would then have to buy a ticket.
@@Bungle2010 why not the entire railway system have a universal set price for all routes then.... its hard for some tourists who can easily get mistaken, so don't get why your being so edgy and blunt
Forget the fines, the legal tickets cost to get to Standard is criminal, it cost me £26 for a 35 minute train ride to get to "London" Stansted to get a 2 hour "flight" to Germany that cost £19 thats nuts, UK greed and pricing is disgusting what are we doing?, this type of stuff is destroying the country
Totally agree.
Yes yes and yes. This is the problem, not the imaginary "scam" this bait of a video pretends to expose
You'll have an aneurysm if you ever need to use the Heathrow Express then!
@@gorkasillerorags is so far up khans arse it’s quite scary.
I had a similar situation. I used my Apple Pay to tap in at fenchurch street station. I took the C2C service to benfleet. I was then met at benfleet with ticket officers who issued a fine due to it not being a contactless station. Stated I should of got off the train tapped out of the barriers at barking then walked back around bought a ticket and re boarded the next train to my destination.
It sounds extremely stupid and as a 16 year old at the time, my father thought that it’s unacceptable to ask me to leave the train station and then re-enter etc… so when the fine wasn’t paid we was summoned to court where we got our solicitors involved.
The judge ruled it was misleading and unfair. The case was dropped.
We then summoned C2C to court for how misleading it was and taking advantage of people. There legal team was quick to make a out of court settlement with us where one of the conditions was they would put more appropriate and visible signage up of the non-contactless stations.
Shame to see this sort of stuff is still going on. If anyone fancies a legal battle I’d say you stand a good chance. They will soon make the changes required when they realise it’s all going wrong for them.
even if i did understand the stansted issue (which i dont) this is even worse. why would they let you travel a whole hour, 34 miles, close to the beach on contactless? thats common sense. c2c also has announcements at upminster or something
@@mudchute4dlr why would they not? For example if I put my elderly nan on the train at London using her contactless card why would she then be expected to get off, leave the station, re-enter the station and then reboard the next available train.
They know what they are doing is wrong that’s why 1) the judge ruled it in our favour and 2) if they thought what they were doing was correct they would of thought back or appealed on the counterclaim which they didn’t.
@@TheDrew1234able you dont touch in with contactless in the first place? its really obvious that the southend area is too far to be in the PAYG fare zone
@@mudchute4dlr but why would I not use contactless when it’s the easiest option and it’s working at the departure station? You must understand where I’m coming from, there’s no malice behind it. I just tap in and think I can tap
Out at the other end
@@TheDrew1234able because of what I said, I'd you have common sense you would know that 30 miles from London is too far to accept contactless in the first place. the fact that it works at london fenchurch doesn't change the fact that common sense exists
Why they not offer the passengers the option of buying the correct ticket instead of the fine?
Part of the fault is the passengers acting like sheep and accepting to pay the ridiculous fine.
This isn’t a mistake, it’s a money-maker. It’s little wonder why they don’t want to disclose how much they make.
It's a revenue stream for Stansted municipality and they won't be giving it up soon. The fact that they employ a dozen ticket checking agents and enforcers (paying their wages) would indicate that they are making good money from it.
It looks like a mafia
You seem a bit challenged. There’s no municipality in britain 😊
what missing from this report: when on the train you hear announcement about Oyster & contactless pagy isn't expected at Stansted Airport.
If have a smart phone you could buy a ticket before arriving at Stansted airport
Indeed, can't be sorry for them
The problem with that is, that having tapped in to get on the train you would still need to tap out somewhere to avoid a penalty charge on your Oyster or debit card. Not sure what the amount is but it's important, if tap in then you have to tap out, at some point. Tapping in then buying a ticket on your smart phone effectively is like buying 2 tickets. Probably still cheaper than the fine though.
@@robinpunter4377yes you would have to leave at Tottenham Hale
@@robinpunter4377 If you tap in, but fail to tap out, you are charged the maximum fare for the day. You can get a refund though, if you have a valid excuse. In this instance, you could say you tapped in by mistake and provide your ticket to Stansted as evidence
@@robinpunter4377 the announcement takes place before the first station, which does still accept Oyster and Contactless.
WORKING EXACTLY how it was designed!! Not 1 person on the ENTRY SIDE to tell passengers they need a paper ticket, 20 at the final destination with ARMED THUGS to extract 3x the ticket price..... SCAM!
They shouldn’t be allowed through barriers in first place. They just waiting for them at the other end, disgusting
Although you can say that it is passengers' responsibility to read the sign, the "Red Army" at the exit shows that Greater Anglia has the intention to set up this tourist trap and earns thousands of extra money from it. What a disgrace of our railway system NOT putting passenger first!
and people are clearly not trying to dodge the fare if they've tapped in
@@grassytramtracksor if they queue up to tap out via the inspectors. They’d just buy a ticket on their phone if they knew they were about to get caught.
@@pete1942 Yup, Greater Anglia can assist passengers to do so, rather than using those Red Army to charge the penalty fare.
It is dishonest to fine people but acceptable to require them to pay the correct price.
Don’t give them your name. If you do you will be fined. Happened to me, they said they will call the police, I noticed two police officers and shouted them over and explained what’s happened. I was offered to pay my original fare, no fine, no details given to anyone. Never give any details whatever they say.
There looks to be plenty of warning and signage to me
The relevant management is at fault; they are either allowing this to happen on purpose, or they aren't up to the job of setting up the system correctly. In either case they aren't up to the job and should be sacked. Anyone involved who has authority over this and is doing nothing to fix it should be sacked too. Rotten people. Useless people. Causing unnecessary pain for decent people.
If there are plenty of people - with a salary - on the other end to collect, it means that the company operating the Standsted Express knows what is happening.
However, they do not care, as they have placed signage, and have the perfect arguments.
To be honest, as a citizen, I find that unacceptable!
This is a (formal) scam.
Just got back from the Netherlands. Managed to travel across the entire country on buses, trains, trams etc all even in the most remote areas, with my card. Contactless is the norm and a country like the UK needs to catch
There are even different tariffs between all public transport operators, but there are always card readers or gates when you transfer between them with clear signing.
I encountered this on the rail from London to Hildenborough. Announcement in train at last station for contactless made me get off, run around with my baggage and find tickets to continue. Very difficult for tourists.
Another "Post Office" scenario in the making!
Take away the franchise as they think this is a justifiable way of boosting profits!
You can tell it's a scam because the ticket checkers are at the exit not the entrance.
You can tell it's not a scam because of the signs at liverpool street and the announcements at tottenham hale
That's because at the entrance there's about 17 different platforms, most of which allow contactless and oyster payments for the journeys, hence why all barriers allow you to tap in. You can't just put a handful of inspectors checking all 17 platforms, so it's better to put them at the end of the destination where only 1 type of ticket is accepted. It's common sense.
@@ViperUK and also the stansted express calls at tottenham hale
Less of a scam, more of an idiot trap - the public refuses to read signage at all, that's not a scam that's stupidity.
The fact they have so many inspectors waiting means they know what they are doing it is nothing more than entrapement
Contactless should be available everywhere every time…
You missed the point of the scam
Their first mistake is expecting that people can read.
You so right! 🤣
It shouldn't let you through the barriers without a ticket.
Ah, but then they'd make less money...
The train stops several times within the oyster/contactless area before continuing to Stansted.
If only it was sign posted, absolutely everywhere… oh wait.
Shhh rags is fighting for the poor oppressed London holiday maker who spends most the grain journey saying how much they hate stansted as it’s tacky etc and so beneath them normally 😊
if money came out of your account for tapping then its they that are breaking their own rules.
ie you paid in good faith, take it to court or appeal, the fact that they are fining you means they think you are guilty before been given chance to prove innocence.
its disgusting.
But that’s not how it works. You won’t have paid the correct fair. Hence the fine. This isn’t a pay what you like service. It’s a specified train with a specific ticket requirement.
@@fluffysamuraicrusader7957 SO long as the right amount was debited, then no, they are breaking their own contract.
@@007floppyboyI suspect there is nowhere to tap out at Stansted, so the maximum daily charge for not being able to do that, may apply too. effectively paying twice for the first part of the journey.
I wonder what they would do if you argue you just want to pay from where the TFL zones end, and just need a ticket for the remainder of the journey.
Agreed about the so called 'fines' 👍
@@contactjd You are required to have a valid ticket before travel. That’s the point.
@@Bungle2010 Tbh I don't sympathise with that when it comes with a ridiculous fare. Stanstead shouldn't be called "London Stansted" if that's the case
Are the ticket barriers actually, as the report says, 'Stansted Express barriers' or just ordinary barriers used to access various platforms at London Liverpool Street station. If it's the latter, then there's nothing that can be done about it unless Stansted Airport becomes part of the PAYG area. To completely prevent passengers for Stansted Airport from touching in, TfL would have to deactivate Oyster card and contactless card payments on all ticket barriers, but since Greater Anglia serves dozens of stations within the PAYG area, that's not an option.
True. Plus not only does the ticket barrier have access to multiple platforms, the Stansted Express train itself calls at stations before the airport that do accept contactless payment
You can use contactless on the Stanstead Express between Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale, and it is the quickest way to get between those two stations.
They are just ordinary barriers - Stansted Express trains share 10 platforms with other routes that accept oyster and contactless.
As someone reasonably suggested in another comment. If you want to call yourself a "London" airport, I think you should be obliged to join the PAYG area.
@@katrinabrycehaha you are a genius! I never thought of it! They deserve people to do that ! Scammers
The amount of fines being paid is "commercially sensitive" because they have no intention of stopping a source of revenue.
Train companies ripping off passengers for profit…. What a shocker.
Complete nonsense. They declined to purchase a valid ticket.
@@Bungle2010 I’m speaking about the lack of adequate signage informing customers that they required a ticket for the only train to any airport in the Greater London area that you actually needed a ticket for. (That also lets you swipe an Oyster card to get through but not out of the barriers. So, not complete nonsense Mr West
@@grahamwillox In the Greater London area? WTF are you talking about...........?
@@Bungle2010 you’re obviously not capable of understanding and I don’t have the crayons or the patience to explain it to you. 🙄
There's plenty of signage so you're talking rubbish.
This happened to me at Epsom a good few years ago. When they tried to fine me, I gave them the cost of the ticket, and my contact details only. They sent me a letter saying _"Pay the full fine or we'll take you to court."_ and I replied _"Okay then, let's settle this in court."_ I never heard from them again.
I don't know if this strategy would still work. But it might be worth a try if you're feeling belligerent.
That would be fun. Many are tourists and have foreign addresses and residence. The |Stansted Express staff cannot 'arrest' or detain people and would need to have a permanent police presence to do so, which the BTP would not fund. It would be interesting to see how they would proceed with court summonses to someone not resident in the UK!
@@11nitrox Yeah, as I understand it, the only crimes are: Deliberately evading the fare. Or refusing to give the inspector your true contact details. So I think even the transport police can't detain you simply for having the wrong ticket.
In Glasgow when getting on the train, and the ticket machine is broken, and no inspector comes on the train. You arrive at Glasgow Central with no ticket, you have two choices, buy your ticket at one of the machines. Or head to the gate, with no ticket and get fined, plus fare.
Now if you think, I will cheat with the ticket machine, and put in the wrong outward journey, the tickets inspector will know this to be fraudulent. As they know stations are manned, and the ticket machines work
So why cant Stansted do something similar, and allow passengers to buy tickets, and avoid the penalty
If there was a boycott of Stansted Airport, this would end in one day!
But of course, people only seem to care about low-priced flights.
Or how about people stop expecting to have their bottoms wiped?
Don’t go on holiday because a few morons don’t understand how to buy a train ticket. I think that’ll catch on.
I‘m not a big fan of Stansted, but if you get flights to Germany or whatever for less than £20, I‘d consider going to Stansted. I mean, what are the alternatives? A minimum £100 flight from Heathrow or something. But I’ve never got the Stansted Express, it’s just an obvious tourist trap that Greater Anglia uses. National Express is way cheaper and, if you manage to get their newer buses, even more comfy than the train.
So you would boycott your local Tesco's in the same way if your car annoys you on the way to the shops? Musings of a madman.
The most important question: Did they charge your contactless card?
As someone has said, it wouldn’t have been the correct fair, hence the fine.
@@R8V10 That wasn’t my question. 🤷♂️
As people are tapping in but not tapping out they will be charged the maximum fare for the day. They may be able to get a refund. A maximum of three refunds a month can be claimed if you have a valid reason.
The only scam here is the shitty journalism that conveniently left out all the signs warning passengers contactless/oyster is not valid to Stansted, didn't play the audio or visual announcements on the train also warning this and made it look like the train was non-stop from Liverpool Street to Stansted when it in fact stops at several stations WITHIN London which is where those using contactless can correctly travel to on this train.
So many flaws yes
Can’t wait for the documentary to come out in 10 years and then the tories to suddenly be outraged and give everyone their money back.
If their bully boys put their hands on you or stop you leaving it’s assault and you call the police and press charges.
Plus, you are not obligated to pay any respective fine on the spot. You have 14 days. This is illegal.
The issue is that the trains stop in london (which was conveniently ignored in this broadcast) which is why they let you on so there *is* a reason. Obviously they could not stop the trains at Tottenham Hale but that's one of the main routes to Stansted.
BUT allowing contactless all the way would solve everything tottaly agree with that so they *do* need to sort it out.
London is no worse than anywhere else in this regard though, try the Rome bus system...
I get why you can use contactless on Stansted Express, as people may just use it to hop between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. Whilst yes, it does say no contactless to Stansted, i do think fining people for it is a tad harsh, when it should really just be the fare they have to pay. Though ideally, contactless really ought to go to Stansted sooner, as this is a easily fixable mistake.
They've travelled without a valid ticket, hence the penalty fare.
Other people have said that contactless/Oyster IS valid on Stansted Express between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. That makes this doubly confusing.
@@Bungle2010 Confusing for some people as Stansted is known as"London Stansted" so obviously it could be mistaken for being in the travel card zone. But obviously pedantic people like would phrase everything as "Oh but Everybody should Be Born knowing this". What a load of wibble you spew
Interestingly some operators are a lot more lenient. Northern have penalty fares but usually if you take the initiative to find the train guard and ask to buy a ticket, they'll just sell you the ticket. Or equally you hop on and buy an eticket on your phone... don't get me wrong, there are a couple of arsey guards, but most of them know it's less stress to just sell John Who Doesn't Use The Trains Very Often a valid ticket at walk-on rate, and save the penalty fares for the deliberate and repeat offenders.
@@electrickery Which is absolutely nothing like we're talking about here is it. Doesn't use trains often is a poor excuse. It's called common sense and using the eyes you were born with............
Basically, if you wait till the queue is gone and no trains from london are coming in, you can just walk through?
THEY ARE FAR WORSE THAN CROOKS
I have to pay more for Stansted Express than my plane ticket to London. That is already ludicrous. Fortunately I managed to navigate the UK rail system without getting fined, but I admit it can be confusing with dozens of train operators on the same tracks, some tickets are interoperable others not, off-peak, on-peak, advance etc.And the ticket prices? That alone feels like getting fined for having the audicity of using public transit.
Someone needs to do a freedom of information request for the number and amount of fines issued, to shame them to go contactless quicker 🤔
Shame who exactly? It can’t be done.
@@Bungle2010 Shame the rail company Greater Anglia they are making a great deal of money out of genuine travellers. Perhaps they should employ staff to tell people before boarding the train rather than lots of staff to collect fines and ticket monies at the other end 🤔
@@middleground5084 Or they could put up very obvious and very clear signs? Oh wait…….
@@Bungle2010 Instead of being vague, explain why for a change?
@@seaside-dn8dp Because Oyster is already at its limit. It’s nothing to do with individual TOCs anyway.
This has caught me out too.
They know exactly what they’re doing, it’s essentially legalised robbery.
The “signage” is pathetic. Tottenham Hale is even worse than Liverpool Street.
I think Tottenham Hale has changed recently. The signage there is more prominent than at Liverpool Street. It made me stop in my tracks as a normal ticket holder.
@@aspzxI’ll check it out next time - I do hope so!
Though early at TH sometimes you’re directed not via the main entrance too and instead walk straight up to platform on a side staircase. Not sure when/why that occurs.
All those employed by this outfit at the end of the line should be at either end to EXPLAIN, rather then waiting to LEGALLY MUG HONEST PEOPLE!
"Stanstead Express Barriers" ? Really? They're not just gates providing access to all tracks ?
They often do. Although that day they looked separate
Well, sounding like a NR train in london, you board contactless if you travel withing the payg area, or take a ticket if you go beyond. You are suposed doing your due diligence before boarding, what's different with stansted?
Maybe not different, but not the best organization either
same thing with stansted express but everyone tries to use contactless outside of the fsre zone
Whenever I go to a different country, I check zone maps/ticket options. I don't just hop on a train and hope for the best. 🤦♂️
London has one of the most confusing tickets options I've seen anywhere. As a tourist, do you get TravelCard, do you use Oyster pay as you go with day cap ? What is capped in day cap, what is not, what about weekly (or monthly cap) that is recalculated well after the fact ?
I got fined at Stansted after going contactless, one of the most frustrating situations, I was absolutely broke at the time too! Scumbags
What I find so odd as well is that I travel to stations outside London Primally Reading though and Reading is a contactless station and is outside of the London area. So like I would assume no oyster as that's what Reading is but no contactless makes no sense.
All those signs just passed you by there champ
Why don’t they just switch off the contactless facility on the barriers? This is a trap another money making scheme.
Because the service provides regular service to Tottenham Hale, Cheshunt and Broxbourne which each are in the contactless/oyster zone. Each of those have no separation at all in the barriers between standard and Stansted services. You can also often access other oyster zone train services from the same platforms at Liverpool Street. They are often not exclusive "Stansted Express platforms" as this report makes out
Imagine doing that inspector job… I’m glad I get to go home after a day of work knowing I’ve helped people and made their day better.
Clearly the signs are not as visable as they should be, when a massive crowd those floor notices would be all covered up, overhead warnings are totally needed fora start
tell me, where do you look at when you are touching your contactless or oyster card on the reader? you look at the reader, right? so why can't you read the big fat text on the reader that says 'stop' at least, then stop to read the other four words? its not difficult. the top half of the reader with the text also has a red background which is more attracting to the brain or something like that
@@mudchute4dlr Why design a ticket gate with a touch reader, specifically designed to speed people through and then expect people to stop before going through? Why have a ticket gate which beeps and opens, like all the other ticket gates in London, when you present a valid PAYG card or Oyster and expect people to know that on this specific occasion the gate opening does not mean their ticket is good for travel? Why have such a confusing rule for one London airport that doesn't apply to most of the others? Why plaster the gate stanchion and paddles with advertising if you want people to focus on the tiny reader instead? Why not sell tickets on the train if you know thousands are passing through with out realising they haven't paid properly? Why? Because Stansted Express know they are onto a money spinner and have no intention of doing anything to provide a better service, when they can employ a phalanx of uniformed goons to fleece customers of their money on arrival at Stansted. I wonder if those staff get a bonus the more they take? I wonder if that bonus would disappear if they just sold regular tickets at the airport instead of imposing penalty fares...
They're not just on the floor. That's what this video fails to show. People need to pay attention and look and take off those horse blinkers.
Unfortunately people expect staff/government to hold their hand and drag them onto the train and do everything for them. Passenger mentality on British railway really has fallen off the cliff@@mudchute4dlr
@@ViperUK exactly
1:09 it literally says on the ground that you can’t use contactless or oyster on stanstead services. The reason you can touch in there is because other Greater Anglia and even overground services leave from Liverpool Street and you can use contactless on them. Our railway ticketing system is a minefield but please at least try to do your research... in London you’re lucky that the system does all the working out for you, here in the Home Counties we have to guess whether it’s off peak, super off peak, peak, HS1, non HS1, etc etc.
When you're not looking for this putting a sigh on the floor won't help. There are countless signs all over that people stopped paying attention to them, unless they are looking for something specific. When you're able to use contactless everywhere and you get to the train station to go to a London airport you won't look for a sigh to see if you can pay with contactless for this specific train, especially when the fare gates have a contactless option and that you see others use it.
Blaming the passengers is not the way to go.
@@AL5520 Yup, exactly! I was a bit on the fence but the mayor and guy at the end had a great point, if you’re gonna call yourself a London airport then you should act like a London airport. Literally everything in London is done by contactless usually using your phone, and when I say literally everything, I really mean… (strike that) am only be very slightly hyperbolic.
Food, drink, pubs, trains, cabs, buses, bikes, stupid cable car things, boats, trams, shops, even homeless people, and beggars and a million other things all use contactless. Heard the phrase: Cash is King? Well not in London, Apple Pay & Google Pay rule the streets here, with Mastercard, Visa, & Amex contactless not far behind.
So, the mindset of any Londoner would be: If contactless card open gate, contactless card okay. I do good. I buy ticket. No fine.
Then as the guy I’m replying to also mentioned you have the signs, and their point is so perfect it needs nothing added to it, there are so many bloody signs everywhere, you can’t read all of them and your sorts tuned out to most of them. Since they’re usually irrelevant to you, or say something stupid and obvious. Plus, there’s always signs that say “buy a ticket or face a penalty fare”. But once again: Contactless card open gate. Contactless card okay. I buy ticket. No fine.
Also, there may be other platforms but these are the Stansted Express branded gates.
Also correct me if I’m wrong, as I usually use KC & St.P or Euston and I haven’t taken a train for L.St Station for a while, but aren’t the platforms separated as well. Like not completely but for example you go through one gate and once you go through your locked into an area (essentially) made up of say 5 platforms, maybe 10, which is why if you get it wrong you then need to ask the person at barrier nicely to let you out so you can go to the right area?
Which makes it feel like a specific standard express area, so to speak.
Again though, I haven’t been to L. St Station for ages, I can picture it in my head but it’s mixed up with the last time I went there about 2 years ago and then the hundreds of times over the last 28 years, which is why I still sometimes think the 214 ends up there. Poor 214, at least it still exists, my beloved C2 sadly went out to pasture.
@@hunyesmith03 Stansted express trains share platforms with london overground and other greater Anglia services all which have some form of contactless acceptance due to them stopping at other stations within the london fare zones
additionally many Stansted Express trains stop at Tottenham hale which you can use contactless for
You can absolutely use oyster on Stansted Express between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale, and even Northumberland Park is Spurs are playing at home and they stop the trains there.
This is similar to how local councils entrap motorists. It’s effectively fraud by those in authority, i.e. using deceptive means to extract money. Because it raises huge amounts of money, those in power have no incentive to change the system. Unfortunately, such misbehaviour by those in power is becoming commonplace in the UK now.
This is not the same. Sorry but you are attaching a totally different level of enforcement. Traffic signage has to follow very strict statutory guidelines to be deemed sufficient to enforce restrictions. Most councils make very little actual profit from traffic enforcement and this is not the same at all.
@corneliussmiff2773 wrong my local council have had nearly 1 million in fines for a time restricted right turn. That a lot of people don't know about.
@@empressdoinalot I can't be wrong, what I said was a fact. Local authorities are bound by very strick statutory regulations when it comes to signage and road markings etc. If they do not meet these requirements or are found to be defective then the said authority gets in a lot of trouble.Just because your local authority had nearly one million in Penalty Charge Notices (not fines by the way) does not seem it as insufficient, and if those people didn't know about it, than it's their own fault. However, IF the signage or markings were defective under the statutory requirements, then this is a different issue and the authority would be under alot of scrutiny and can be challenged.
what a bunch of crooks. thanks for exposing this
Scam !!! There should be a law suit!!!
If there was no signage, then you could sue, but the signs mean that you can't sue
This is crazy and completely unacceptable. It's simply not fair to expect international travelers to know this rule. Something must be done urgently by the government to put a end to this.
Iinternational travelers aren't expected to know that you need to buy a ticket to go on a train?
Yeah. I demand an election over this!
It's a bit of a journey to Stansted airport from Liverpool street station. We should have a second barrier at this platform for the Stansted express train. Then people who are traveling using an oyster card would not allow them to pass.
There seems to be a purge on everyone at the moment to part people with their money when things are difficult as they are. This could be soon remedy by putting contactless in place for stansted the same way it was for London Gatwick
"Cheated". Yup. Contest it in court and made them pay.
They’d lose.
What I don't understand is why they can't pay retroactively
Profit. The Privatised Railway is for the shareholders not a public service
How are people with sight and or other impairments informed of no contactless for the journey ??
Another reason why I will not use Stansted Airport
Because you have to pay a fare on the train? Do you think your flight should be free as well?
@@annoyingbstard9407You obviously didn’t watch the video
you wont use stansted airport because people cannot read signs which are put in their face (and LOUD announcements)?
@@mudchute4dlr I won’t use it because For me, Heathrow and Gatwick are cheaper to get to. Plus I don’t need to piss about buying extra train tickets when you can just use contactless, even if there are signs in your face and announcements.
Surely it’s cheaper to just enable contactless touch in and out than employ an army of “collectors” and “enforcement agents”, make it make sense Department for Transport 😂
But they probably make more profit in fines than the additional staffing costs them.
@@jezp1976 Given the Department for Transport is a government agency, I don’t think they are profit motivated. Instead, they’re just being lazy and hoping no one with a voice that matters says anything about it
@thahleel but abellio are a private company, and they get to keep the fines.
That would require uniform contactless payments at every station in the country. Stansted travellers don’t all live crammed around Liverpool Street station.
@@jezp1976 Abellio are not the ones who install the gates at either end, that is the responsibility of the Department for Transport. Abellio is just capitalising on the situation that the DfT allows to happen
So this thing about paying 50 now or 100 later is a form of coercion.
when u see that ticket check, just buy online a ticket and use it
It’s certainly what a fare evader would do, rather than take the fine, but this just confirms that these people are not fare evaders, but genuinely unaware they have done anything wrong.
Proper reporting. MSM doesn't do that anymore.
Thank you for this, its been a burden for years, don't stop there, dig a little and you will find that this is very lucrative as they have KNOWN about this for quite awhile and the decision to continue this came from way up the chain. May I suggest a Public information request, specifically the board members.. just to say they will not revel all, but will give you an idea how far this goes. ~Trooper
Not sure what a "Public information request"... perhaps you mean a Freedom of Information request, but that wouldn't apply to a private company.
The only burden is peoples' inability to ask, read or write for the information outside there self-important bubble. Being lazy is not an excuse.
Every train stop it mentions you need a ticket,no sorry for them
You have to be very unlucky to miss the many, many warnings ALL around the stations, the airport, and on the trains.
Or blind & think you can get away with it😗😗
Or stressed, because you are going to an unfamiliar airport. You only do this mistake once.
Or just annoyed cos you got caught out innit!
Or you think "the gate opens it must be fine and the signs outdated, like they always are".
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 can you read when you are stressed? yes. so why cant people read the four words on signs (in which there are in fact too many of) that say no oyster or contactless?
Rip off England in fine form
The fact that if you appeal and fail you pay double is absolutely a bully tactic too.
They could have a ticket inspector on each train to check if each passenger has a ticket and if not sell them one - or make a seperate barrier for the Stanstead express where you cannot use contactless but have to use a paper ticket - but both would not make them as much money as the fines imposed on people who have made a genuine mistake (just a thought)!
They used to have "revenue officers" on the trains for exactly this reason - until one was stabbed by a customer who refused to pay!
stansted express have their own barriers. The thing is that you can't force people going to tottenham hale go an hour one route instead of taking the stansted express
This has to be an incredibly lucrative station. You just need to place a few people at the end to collect fines and almost automatically you will make huge profits out of it. Legally, no one can say anything about it, because there are signs. Obviously, as the huge number of people who have been fined shows, a lot of people don‘t notice those signs, perhaps due to the large amount of signs and ads all around us each day, perhaps because tapping in and out is something many people do so often each day that it has become an automatic action, handled on a subconscious level.
If you are making so much money out of fining people who have no intention of boarding a train without a ticket, you are a scammer though. Not legally, just morally. But of course, private train companies won’t care about that. A problem like that can only be solved politically.
There are so many signs at Liverpool St and Tottenham Hale. There are A boards everywhere and often staff at the barriers advising people. Of course the barrier lets you through they are not Stansted only barriers. All that said it’s a disgrace that you can’t use contactless to the airport like others
Totally agree, i used a wheely laptop case , the guard at Tottenham Hale stopped me because he thought i was going to the airport and was going to tell me i needed a ticket. When i told him where i was going he was fine.
I can understand about not using oyster but why can’t you use a contactless card
Because that also requires a particular set up as well which has not been completed to Stansted
I really don't know why they don't just make them buy another paper ticket, rather than charging a fine.
Something similar happenned to me when travelling from London to Oxford with a ticket, I bought online. There are those machines, where you are supposed to make one additional step to obtain your actual ticket, which I did not know, the instructions in the e-mail were very vague and hidden in the fine print below an advertisement. There were no barriers on the stations and the ticket inspector demanded that I buy another ticket. Trains in Britain are shameful, overpriced tourist traps. But so is Stansted airport - one giant tourist trap, whose managers hate their customers and make sure that the travellers will suffer at every step.
You mean the 'very' vague statement 'Collect your ticket before you board with this code # and you original payment card from the automated ticket machines or booking office'. Yeah i can see how that would confuse 'some' people.🤦♀
@andrewcoupe9528 It was more vague back then and by back then I mean eight years ago.
they shouldnt need to put any signs for journeys on the great west or chiltern main lines as its pretty obvious reading and beyond on great west, and amersham and beyond on chiltern, is realky far out of london and should not accept contactless
4:35 isnt there a way to calculate the profiteering by companies issuing 'fines' as they will contribute to the companies' accounts - especially as the Government now have financial responsibility directly over the railways?
I work as an independent auditor and travel this route weekly. There are audio messages warning contactless is not valid beyond Tottenham Hale and there are untold signs all over. The more important thing is that contactless is limited to the travelcard zones with SOME exceptions. If you just make the assumption that you are going 50 minutes outside London and it is on the travelcard zone without checking when Stansted does not appear on any tube map then it really is the persons own fault and they need to take some responsibility.
It’s entrapment by a private company
The fact that there are legions of people at ten airports, and none making the point at the London end tells you all you need to know about these crooks. This is entrapment pure and simple.