This is more of a complex thing that it might seem, let me explain. Renfe asked for a train that basically did not exist: one capable of going through any track of Europe without any modification, and all done automatically within the train itself. This means one single train capable of ruling in different track gauges (particularly inside Spain) and changing electrical currents (AC, DC and varying voltages), whilst being certified to reach a top speed of 360 km/h commercially. On top of that, they wanted a high capacity train and preferably low floor. Renfe’s tender consisted of two parts: a normal high speed train and the mentioned before. Since Talgo was the only one capable of doing the latter (as they already had the gauge changing technology), they won the contract. Also, their offered price was lower than the rest. However, the entry to service was delayed, as it was obvious that Renfe’s request were too much, specially with the small timeframe to design, build and test the train of 4 years. The pressures over Talgo to deliver the trains (due to Renfe not having trains to operate the newly built HS lines in northern Spain) made them deliver a train that had unfixed issues. Among these issues: high vibrations, systems shutting down, or simply the whole train stopping for no reason. Talgo blames Renfe for the pressure (also politics got involved) and Adif (the railway administrator) for not letting Talgo test the train with enough frequency in different tracks. And now Renfe wants lawsuit Talgo for the defects on the trains. A thing to notice is that the highly reduced price of these trains is not really due to the cheapness of materials/components, but because it has less bogies (or rodales as Talgo calls them), which highly reduces the price. On a side note, the seats are Renfe’s issue, nothing to do with Talgo as such (they install the seating the customer asks for), just like all the interior layout. In my personal opinion, Talgo was too ambitious with this train. The funny part is that IT IS capable of doing all they promised, but with compromises that could not get fixed with the time they had. Also, the vibrations vary a lot with the tracks, as this train goes outside of the HS line too (the only one to do so in the Spanish network), and on wether the specific variant is gauge changing or not. Additionally, the wheels have a totally more technology that aligns them automatically with the track to reduce stress and make the train more efficient, and it’s been rumored that that’s the cause of the elevated shaking. I hope that they will fix the issues on the train as they did with the S130 back then, which has now become a pretty reliable train (although it also experiences some vibrations, but not much more than other trains). The layout and seats should just be a little investment from Renfe, which I hope they do.
No man, that´s not the point. First of all Renfe NEVER asked for a 360 km/h train. This train is certified for 300 like all others, and some systems/subsystems for 330 km/h (meaning that they have to reach at some point in tests 360 km/h (+30 km/h than the speed to be certified). Secondly, Talgo was never too ambitous with this train. Talgo got the contract based on lowering prices to a dangerous extreme (price 28% lower than the others) of only 22 million per train. This is in fact a really a LOW COST train. Therefore they had to design their parts taking this low price into account. Most of the problems are being caused by the traction chain (which was previously from Bombardier and which Talgo broke the agreement because they were too expensive). Now the drive chain software is from Talgo instead of the manufacturer Ingeteam (meaning more problems Since Talgo had to develope that software without any experience). Talgo sold to Renfe a train that didn´t exist !! Who is guilty, Talgo for selling something that did not exist, or REnfe for buying something that did not exist? The reality is that since the Franco era, Talgo has been a company protected by the state... and with that purchase capital was given to the company to be able to continue existing, at the cost of having purchased a product that is not even a prototype ! Renfe (and the Spanish) has financed the research and development of this train. And now we see the reality!
I find the title of your video quite demagogic. Surely it is not the best high speed service, but a 3 hours journey in a brand new train at 300km/h for 37€ definetly is not the worst service of Europe at all. In fact, it is an excellent value for money.
@@OMtheRails and the word WORST in capital letters. Everything in compliance with all the rules of black PR and marketing. The rivals have decided to vilify Talgo and hired a bunch of " travellers " or is it a kind of revenge from Magyar Vagon? 😉
Yeah, we pay 3 times that for half the speed and double the hours. For the cost per kph, some compromise is more than fair. I mean, it might not be great but for just €37.. its about as good as any flight if not better when time save is factored surely..
There was something similar happening in Poland last year, where it was discovered that the train manufacturer deliberately was messing up with train software so the trains were breaking at predefined time intervals. Obviously that given train manufacturer was the only one able to fix the issues. All this was discovered by a group of hackers employed by a train repair company...
Just a comment about the wireless headphone connection. The interface is not clear but you can connect bluetooth headphones by clicking on the headset icon in the upper right corner. Tried it yesterday, works well, it even stops the audio/movie if an announcement is going on
There are three problems mainly: One is of course the trains, since the RENFE of PP Administration of M. RAJOY in 2016 contracted a train, the one in the video in question, which should have cost between 35 and 40 million and they left it at the extraordinary bargain of 22 million, which that infamous government boasted about, along with the rush to have it available. And from those dusts comes these muds, a very Spanish saying that has been used a lot lately. The second issue is the infrastructure Madrid-Asturias High Speed lines, as well as the Madrid-Galicia one, which ARE UNFINISHED. This is an important detail, since there are areas with only one track in operation, which during times of high demand become a "bottleneck" that greatly limits and conditions the circulation of trains. Another important issue is that, especially in Galicia, from Ourense onwards, there is a change in track width that is not working too well either, and which is the cause of continuous delays. The third problem runs parallel to the second, and is the lack of maintenance of these complex infrastructures that require continuous special attention and that, due to the tremendous investment in opening new kilometers of High Speed, are being neglected, which results in constant failures of the catenary and the electrical supply that leave trains stranded in the middle of their journeys.
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING??? Well, Talgo has been around for years and years, it's hardly a new and untried concept, there seem to be a few issues with these but they seems to be related to the dynamics of the design, it's hardly as if RENFE chose something completely untried. They did specify a cheap style of seat and a high density seating layout, that is true
Those Nayax card terminals on vending machines are responsible for sooooo many lost sales. I've noticed in UK stations, they've swapped 'em out for simpler card terminals
The airport style safety check, became mandatory after the 11 March of 2004 islamic terrorist attacks on several regional trains, that killed 193 people. So i'm glad that the safety controls are there.
@@reggytwobit Was after those terrorist attacks in March 2004 when the AVE started with those controls. In cercanias.... imposible... would mean total collapse.
FYI: Talgo III trainsets for national services (not the international RD ones) already had 2+2 seating in 1st class (as well as in 2nd). The difference between both classes was the seat pitch. Also, last time I checked, it WAS possible to book a premium seat with an Interrail pass (for a higher fee). Are you sure this has changed?
Your comments in the video and the images.... dont fit really good.... (the images show a really good product). I have traveled in the Siemens Velaro (ICE...) High Speed trains and they have really unconfortable seats, hard like rocks. Besides the difference of level with the floor, at the time of boarding them makes old people, women with big trolleys, etc the need to ask for help. Crazy concept. That doesnt happen with any Talgo. Did u forget to comment it? 😇
An interesting assessment. Unfortunately, ride quality seems to have gone downhill on modern rolling stock. Certainly true with the current class 80x in the UK compared with the old Mk3 stock. Some of that is to do with the need to fit within modern absolute gauge requirements (Uniform Structure Gauge (USG) EN 15273), with the avoidance of air suspension for that reason, but there was something well done with the old Mk3s, especially when the permanent way wasn’t perfect.
Nobody here seems to know how this train is wider than others and is capable of sitting 3+2. Talgo trainsets are very sophisticated and hardly presumable of being cheap. Renfe wanted a Mercedes with a Vespa engine.
This is depending from you are from, if you are British or American, travel in a high speed train is something special and you want services on it, for Spanish, travel in high speed trains is a routine so any train that takes you to the place you want on time is a good train, and this one is the best basically because it can take you to places other models can’t, new technology comes with problems that it will be fixed, but think that you couldn’t have done this trip if this train doesn’t exist.
Depends as it was still possible to do this route with the Alvia S130s, albeit at 250km/h. The Avrils essentially make the ex-Alvias AVE routes now (where they replace the S130s), so any remaining services not covered by the Avril are still Alvias, which aren’t as bad.
Recently experienced the same journey with this train, one direction in the low-cost AVLO variant, and back in the regular AVE (both standard class). I can confirm the funky issues with various onboard systems also mentioned on this video (passenger entertainment system, carriage screen, vending machines). I have seen other passengers managing to buy something after trying several times, in my case it just wouldn't work. Less of a problem in AVE as you can just go to the bar, in AVLO you don't have that option. Enterntainment and information screens - these are really minor issues, a bit embarassing, but nothing that really affects your journey. Wifi worked, although I had some issues with the useless registration of a phone number (just make it open, come on ...). However, both times there were some smaller delays (10 - 20 min), which seem to be quite the norm. I hope all of these are teething issues soon to be fixed as both the route (north of León) and the train has been put into service very recently. The route is also being in the process of being upgraded between León and the newly opened Pajares tunnel to a standard gauge high-speed section as well. I think the bumpiness of the ride is exaggered, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary on the high-speed section. Yes, on the regular, partly quite curvy and old sections in the north it is a bit bumpy, but not more than with other trains on such sections (I don't think there is a difference to the Series 130 which I know on this route quite well, and I don't think it is much different from Austrian (non-Talgo) trains on regular sections. In particular the stopping in stations was just normal. My main issue is the seating layout, that should have just remained 2-2 and 1-2 in the AVE version and they should have used the extra space for comfort. The legroom is quite generious still (I am 1.93 tall and legroom is normally an issue, especially on planes), although not as extremely generous as it was on the S-130, IMO adding another row per carriage but changing to 2-2 would be much better. Or mby they should consider a 3-class configuration, with only some 3-2 sections in the AVE.
The duck nosed Talgo and the Haramain havent been so widely criticised. Im curious as to why this one appears to have had such a bad reception Also note that swedish trains, are 2 + 2 first class, they are 3.4 m wide. Likewise KTX EMUs and Shinkansen Green Car.
Because competitors want to erase Talgo as a rival for bids from railways. Now Talgo is being in bad financial situation and the competitors feel it a high time to start a defamation campaign against new Talgo projects.
Thank you for this interesting video. I am surprised at your many criticisms of this new Talgo variant, having travelled on every other type other type, which I find very good. The Talgo trains have always had single axles, and generally they ride pretty well, especially at high speed between Barcelona and Madrid. Let’s hope the new ones settle down soon ! Interestingly Deutsche Bahn are now taking delivery of a large fleet of Talgo trains which will be locomotive hauled in push-pull mode between Berlin and Amsterdam. Now that really will be a train to try out !
Thank you for the comment! I personally like the previous generations of Talgos in Spain, the issue here is that a lot of corners seem to be cut with the Avril and it's just poorly built. Hopefully now that Renfe are seeking compensation from Talgo, this should make them pull their finger out to improve them!
So comparing these train sets to the high speed trains built by Alstom and Siemens which do you prefer for ride quality? (Im not familiar with Hitachi and Stadler’s high speed product line in Europe)
Welcome back OM the Rail, fantastic videos you have, keep up the great work and can’t wait to see what you make next👍🏾😁 Sorry to hear about the train though 😅
You ahould be proud about the things that ACTUALLY were working like A/C, lights... ahhh it was moving... seriously, those train often suffer from electricity issues, sometimes leaving passengers stuck for hours shutted down.
Yes i did enjoy watching your Talgo Avril High Speed Train review, not a bad price fare for the distance you traveled all-in-all., pitty about all those issues you experienced while onboard. That buffetcar food selection looked pretty good though, awesome travel video there OM the Rails👍
Thank you! Yes I agree - I do hope now that Renfe are getting more aware of the issues with these trains that improvements will come sooner rather than later.
@@brian402 Yeah, Pity him! He must hace suffered a lot during that trip. He may have lost some weight being under the stress. Absolutely biased, prejudiced and, maybe, made on purpose...video
I've only been on a Talgo train once, on the Iberian gauge (not high-speed) and I remember it being particularly bumpy and not exactly comfortable (I was in 2nd class). I imagine there have been improvements to the wheelsets now but it doesn't seem suited to high-speed running. Also, what's with the front-end design of these sets. It seems particularly uninspired and bland.
If I remember correctly, the front end was redesigned so it could operate in France (I believe their requirements facilitated a design change), though I personally don't mind it. That was my thinking too, but I never had major issues with the previous Talgos; yes the ride quality wasn't desirable, but nowhere near as bad as the Avril.
@@OMtheRails That's interesting (about France). They do somewhat resemble single deck versions of the Duplex front ends, although the new TGV-M is radically different and much more exciting. Can't wait 'til they hit the rails. I live in Lyon and I believe Lyon-Paris will be the first line served by them.
The two wheels per carriage has been a point for some time. It may be that a bo-bo formation doesn’t work with the gauge change. However no excuse for 3 by 2 seating or poor quality seats. Leave that to the brits.
Talgo - as always (sadly) - is doing a great job to once again deliver a disappointing product. The step free access is a real plus but Talgos design leads to reaaaally uncomfortable rides, even at low speeds.
Tú flipas. Está muy claro que no eres nada objetivo y que sólo quieres dañar la imagen de los trenes españoles. Eres completamente deshonesto. Objetivamente el ruido y las vibraciones son mayores en Iryo, y la dureza de los asientos no es mejor. He viajado muchas veces en trenes Talgo y siempre me han parecido muy confortables y silenciosos. Eres un mentiroso.
@@uncipaws7643Ride quality in talgo class 102 is definitely much better, in my experience comparable to the velaro and frecciarosa units, even if a tiny bit more shakey, but certainly not uncomfortable.
@@racingweirdo the key of Talgo trainsets is that every carriage is mounted on the wheels of the previous one, this way coaches guide each other through the curves and higher speeds are possible with a lower mass. This is only possible if two consecutive carriages share the same two wheels
The whole point of the Talgo system is to have these shared bogies. It's meant to increase comfort (lol), and especially to reduce weight. This is the reason why this train is by far the lightest HST in existence compared to passenger count.
This one was fairly easy as they operate ex-Alvia routes from Madrid to Northern Spain - just search for these routes (i.e. Madrid to A Coruña and Madrid to Gijon) and any AVE service will be the Talgo Avril ✌️
Can please every high speed rail company buy Stadler Girunos in the SBB config. They are just the BEST high speed tains around. I know thay can't change gauge, just electrical system, but they are low floor, high speed and Stadler has gauge change technology, which right now absolutely sucks, but it's improving
@@iarrieta I knew about the regional trains, now I hoped that the new high-speed trains would also come with bicycle spaces, but we'll probably have to wait longer...😪
Great trip report! A friend of mine tried it recently, he was super excited to experience it and then very disappointed afterward. He found the ride quality to be abysmal, to the point he's worrying about the effect these trains have on tracks and potential wear and tear. Initially, I thought it was just a one-time issue, and my friend had ridden a faulty train, but it's the second trip report I watch that says the same. Usually, Jacobs bogies tend to be the type of wheel assembly that causes the least wear and tear on the rails due to the fact that they are the point of articulation of the train, reducing screeching in turns. Compared to regular bogies, two per carriage, that impose more friction by being distant from the points of articulation. (They are also more numerous than Jacobs bogies) So I don't know about these new Talgo trains with yet another tyoe of wheel assembly, they have single inter-carriage wheels, apparently not even on an axle and no bogies except under the power cars. This is very interesting and could be a great system, but it seems like there are real issues with ride quality. My friend said it felt like the wheels were constantly hitting the rails, hammering the track instead of gliding on it. He felt itching in the ear canals and a bit nauseous with the vibrations. Having inter-carriage wheel assemblies should reduce wear and tear on the tracks, but the ride quality suggests the opposite. Is it just a dampening issue that could be solved by tweaking the trains? It will be interesting to see the results of the type's certification process in France, as they are quite sensitive to the wear and tear on tracks of each train type.
Even if the ride feels bumpy, this is probably the train model in circulation in Spain that wears the tracks the least. This train is incredibly light, and the comfort problems are more due to lack of suspension than the wheels actually acting differently than other models.
@@MocomaminecraftYTOficial If it was only vibrations, sure. But my friend said it felt like the wheels were literally hammering the tracks, not just shacking. Especially when passing switches, as if they were battering the switch blades The same kind of feeling as passing joints on non-continuously welded rails, when the wheels hit the next piece of rail but stronger. If that's the case, I'm worried about the tracks. If it's only due to a lack of suspension, then great, at least it's not deteriorating the tracks that fast, though the ride quality remains an issue. But wouldn't the mere fact of lacking suspension have an effect on the track, too? I don't recall the "pato" Talgo trains having such vibrations and shocks while riding (those I have ridden).
@@KyrilPG I'm no expert, but I do believe that is mainly the lack of suspension. Other trains have the same "hammering" of the wheels as this s106 units, you just don't feel it. About the s102, its many factors. First, they are not gauge-changing, which is probably the main source of bad ride quality in the s106, but also Talgo has been tweaking them for years until the current point. They were much shakier when they came out. There is some hope that the same happens to the s106
@@MocomaminecraftYTOficial Are you sure that the other trains' wheels hammer the track the same way as the 106? Apparently, you can even hear it in the 106, whereas I've never heard nor felt such jolting in the 100, 103, or even 102... The suspension dampens the hammering for passengers but also for the track and wheels, just like a vehicle with hard suspension, or no suspension, deteriorates more a road than one with soft suspension. This was noted in the 1980's when the very first version of the TGV switched from hard spring coil suspensions to much softer pneumatic ones : this led to a reduction in wear and tear on the line, not just a much smoother ride quality for passengers. I remember the 102 having a notably rougher ride quality than the 100 or 103, but it was well within the "acceptable range" I should say. Renfe seems really not happy about the AVRIL's vibrations, I don't recall them being so bothered about other trains' teething problems. Were they?
@@OMtheRails Not to defend Talgo on how terrible the train is but the seats are Renfe's fault. Is Renfe who orders the seats the way they want, same as any Train operator
Ah yes, the Talgos. They are supercars of rail: light, very fast, very good at cornering... and with a horrible ride quality. Essentially one axel per car, while most competitors have four.
It looks very much like this is a fantastic concept executed very badly. Because of the gauge changing I can completely understand a slightly bumpier ride. What I can't understand is the 2+2 first class, 2+3 standard class and the entertainment systems. A better interior layout could result in a fantastic travel experience. That said, this layout might make perfect sense for the low cost Avlo services where people will be more willing to compromise on comfort to have a much cheaper journey.
Exactly my point, but there are just too many technical faults with it too which is a real shame. I could possibly ignore the bad ride quality to an extent if they actually got most of the features to work and installed comfier seats.
Spain liberalized HS routes and renfe is losing a pice of the cake to ouigo (SNCF) and iryo (trenitalia+Spanish air company). Renfe asked for those trains to cover routes that don't have standard gauge till the biggest cities in the route (Galicia, Asturias, etc), this way Renfe aviod competitors cause no one can put HS trains to Santiago or Oviedo. Also they needed bigger trains (or just more trains) cause alll these 3 companies can't absorb all the demand, everytime a new route is open their trains are full (these crappy trains are allways full, over 85% ocupation for now). Compared with France or Germany, Spain has a limited number of rolling stock, Renfe just wanted to solve all this at once, and also with cheap trains and this is the result. I guess talgo trains for Denmark and Germany won't have these issues, cause the pay for them
and still: it's 2024 most people use wireless head phones. And about the battery: my is good for 50 hours. that means I can hear music for two days in a row. that should be enough for the most of us..... and like in aircrafts: you can still use your plug-in phones, so everbody wins! ;-)
This is such a typical British response 🙈 you have an overall good product/experience yet you find every negative thing and let that define the whole experience. Spanish trains are some of the best in Europe. Are they perfect? No, nothing is. But if I were to compare the trains in Spain to anywhere else in Europe, I’d say you get a damn good value for money. The trains we have in Norway don’t come anywhere close to the quality nor speed you get in Spain, and in the UK, your trains are outrageously expensive for what you get in return.
"Overall good product" 😂 This is not doubting Spain's high speed rail at all, I've posted many videos on the channel before highlighting the positives. But this is just a terrible train, even Renfe and the Spanish government are seeking compensation from Talgo as they're ruining the AVE brand. One thing I don't understand is, why are so many people so adamant in admitting this? I survived 8 hours on this thing so I have every right to express how disappointed the final product came out.
@@intersezioni maybe the one with the terrible taste is you! 😂 My favorite from the outside is the TGV. The Frecchiarossa 1000 is nice too, but the 500 is just ugly as hell. The ICE trains (especially the ICE 3) look nice and neat. Not to mention the newest generation which will be launched in 2025 for the _California High Speed Rail._ But from the inside the _Siemens Velaro_ train sets (ICE) aren't beaten by anyone. It's a classy modern look which sets the standard for the interieur of High Speed Trains.
I don't like the Italian and German ICE high speed trains because the entrance is very high. The Talgo trains have low floor and an excellent assebililty for travellers in a wheelchair etc.
El nuevo tren de Talgo es excelente como todos los trenes de Talgo. Estos trenes adaptan el giro de sus ejes de forma que las ruedas permanecen siempre tangentes a la via, y los ejes perpendiculares. Esto elimina la tendencia al descarrilamiento de los ejes tradicionales y de los bogies, y permite que los vagones sean mucho más ligeros manteniendo un paso por curva de alta velocidad con completa seguridad. Además, son trenes extremadamente bajos, lo que disminuye el riesgo de vuelco y mejora su velocidad, aparte de ofrecer una accesibilidad sin rival, en la que no hay que subir ni un solo escalón para acceder al tren. Su mayor ligereza permite remontar las subidas y acelerar con mayor facilidad, lo que permite una mayor velocidad media. El confort de los trenes Talgo es excelente, igual o superior al resto de trenes. Esto es algo que el fabricante Talgo mide CIENTÍFICAMENTE y que tiene muy estudiado. Yo personalmente he comprobado muchas veces cómo estos trenes a velocidades por debajo de 200 kmh PARECE QUE ESTÁN PARADOS, porque no se nota nada. Tampoco he tenido nunca ninguna queja sobre los asientos, que siempre me han parecido perfectamente cómodos, y siempre he viajado muy a gusto en ellos y los viajes se me han hecho cortos. Trenes como los Iryo (Frecciarossa ETR 1000) son más ruidosos y tienen igual o más vibraciones. Las vibraciones dependen mucho de las vías y poco de los trenes. El uso de ejes simples y no dobles no aumenta el ruido ni las vibraciones sino que LAS DISMINUYE al haber MENOS RUEDAS PRODUCIENDO VIBRACIONES. LO CIENTÍFICO ES COMPARAR LOS TRENES CIRCULANDO POR LAS MISMAS VÍAS Y A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD Y CON LA MISMA CARGA, porque todo eso afecta a las vibraciones. Comparar trenes arbitrariamente, en líneas diferentes, en trazados diferentes y en vías diferentes, y sin hacer ninguna medida científica es totalmente arbitrario y ridículo. Eso es totalmente SUBJETIVO y NO CIENTÍFICO. Tú sólo eres un ignorante que se cree muy listo, NO TIENES NI IDEA DE TRENES, NI DE FÍSICA, NI DE CIENCIA. SÓLO ERES UN IGNORANTE INGLÉS, LLENO DE ENVIDIA PORQUE EN TU PAÍS NO TENÉIS UNA GRAN RED DE ALTA VELOCIDAD, Y MUCHO MENOS UNA COMO LA ESPAÑOLA, QUE ES LA MÁS GRANDE DE EUROPA. Y POR SUPUESTO, TAMBIÉN TE DA ENVIDIA QUE ESPAÑA FABRIQUE TRENES DE ALTA TECNOLOGÍA COMO LOS TALGO.
I mean with all due respect Renfe and the Spanish Government are seeking financial compensation from Talgo with how poorly these turned out, so it seems the people who actually matter agree with my views... And for the record, I do like the Talgo 350s and 250s (I've rode them before on previous trips to Spain) - the Avril's just simply a terrible train!
Gracias por su respuesta en la que se ve que sabe de lo que se habla, técnicamente y científicamente. Estos vídeos, en los que parecen inspectores técnicos, más que informar lo que hacen es escandalizar. No se puede desprestigiar de esta forma un tren porque al youtober de turno dé su opinión personal. Hay muchos factores que influyen para comparar distintos trenes. Saludos
@@OMtheRails I got a request for you. Could you try out the WMR 730's since they are now on the Cross City line now? I have been on 2 of them so far this year. One for my 400 subscriber special and the second for my 600 subscriber special which I am in the process of making right now.
@@joemercedeschannel196 I'm planning on doing the LNR ones when they're in service, but unsure about the WMR ones at present. Already got quite a lot in the backlog as it is!😅
KTX-EUM(3rd Gen KTX up to 260km/h) and EMU-320(3rd Gen KTX up to 320km/h) looks much better than that one. I don't understand why Talgo tried to compete with Hyundai Rotem in 3rd Generation KTX Program.
It's a signature design that Talgo have been making do with for years - the Talgo 350 and 250 models seem to get away with it. My suspicion is a lot of corners were cut in the design and build of the Avril compared to the others...
What really dissapoints me is that, as soon as you guys (youtubers) see the opportunity to go and criticise something, there you are, like wolfs running for his food. It's a new product that needs to be adjusted of course, but you don't even give the chance. It's a matter of trial and error to get better but you give your opinions like if it was the end of the world just because there are a few things to be adjusted (like everything else in life)... You give it a dislike and I give it to you!...
What really disappoints me is there are a lot of people defending this train when it is simply not good - I like the Talgo 350s and 250s, but Talgo really messed up with the Avril despite some features being good. Let's not forget Renfe are now seeking compensation from Talgo because even they're disappointed with how poor they are!
What genius thought that single axle shared bogies would make for a smooth ride, even cart sprung bogies on 88 ft. tracks were smoother. Those seats looked less comfortable than the 1960's French and Spanish leatherette park bench hard ones. All blame with the operators for commissioning such rubbish.
Single axe shared bogies have been in use by Talgo since the 1950s, and they are very comfortable if done well. I've used many Talgo trains, and they are smooth. They seem to have F-up things with the Avril, who knows why.
Those Talgo Avril do not share axel because each wheel is independent, that is what Avril stands for. Alta velocidad rueda independiente ligero. So before making an statement you should know what are you talking about.
@@tonys1636 Talgo trains have no axles, never did. Wheels are independent from each other. Talgo used to make decent trains (Renfe already has the Ave 102/112 and Alvia 130 types which are fine) but they have completely screwed up this one.
Ohh how terrible avril is!! really dissappointing! The worse in Europe.. 😂😂😂 let me laugh to be honest. Have you got in the UK high speed to compare with at least?
Ooops DSB just are buying a bunch of these Talgo coaches and the foamers are all over it . I prefer the older trains , my car , shoes and bicyle myself .
Bruh. The new ICE L from DB germany is also from Talgo(ne) the new talgo(ne) trains are going also to the Netherlands Amsterdam(ned) - Berlin. I think my Fiat Seicento rally are more comfortabel than the talgone trains haha Great video😊
@@Desi365 the trains are rushed and full of flaws, not only the uncomfortable suspension but all sorts of electrical and mechanical malfunctions are happening all the time. In fact, the railways company Renfe has just announced today that they will be seeking economic and legal compensations from Talgo for all the delays and cancellations caused by these malfunctions. Yesterday one of these trains remained for 2h dead inside a tunnel without AC and passengers had to smash the emergency windows because they were suffocating inside. It's shameful what Talgo did.
Good grief. Packing people in like sardines. For a 500 mile journey that's terrible. Mind you, once you've been in a Pullman coach everything else sucks - mmmmm, big plush seats. 👍
What I see is a complete FAIL...It was first introduced in 2010 at Innotrans Fair in Berlin, Germany in 2010 (concept) so its wildly beyond me that it would take 14 years to launch....Just remember how bad SEAT was in the past and maybe you all don't know, but recently SEAT was cancelled by VW Group!
Its crazy how renfe still hasnt been able to make computers work after 10y of beeing standard on most trains. Screens dont work, wifi doesnt work, their website only does sometimes. Its crazy how can a comoany be this bad with something they can just buy ensewhere
Wifi is a big problem for all train manufacturers. We'll see what Alstom offers with their new TGV next year but it's a basic physics problem, too many people connecting in a tight space, it's hard to provide stable and fast connection. In the Shinkansens, the connection is notoriously poor, too.
@@Desi365 one thing is having a bad or unstable connection which is totally understandable, we are on a moving train. But, whats unacceptable is not having wifi bc the login system doesnt work. Which is the case on renfe. The login system is internal to the train and doesnt need connection to the internet to work. Its not harder than an airport login, its just incompetence. Same thing dor the entertainment system, which has been present on renfe in different formats for over 15y, and has never worked. And dont get me started with the website
This is more of a complex thing that it might seem, let me explain. Renfe asked for a train that basically did not exist: one capable of going through any track of Europe without any modification, and all done automatically within the train itself. This means one single train capable of ruling in different track gauges (particularly inside Spain) and changing electrical currents (AC, DC and varying voltages), whilst being certified to reach a top speed of 360 km/h commercially. On top of that, they wanted a high capacity train and preferably low floor.
Renfe’s tender consisted of two parts: a normal high speed train and the mentioned before. Since Talgo was the only one capable of doing the latter (as they already had the gauge changing technology), they won the contract. Also, their offered price was lower than the rest. However, the entry to service was delayed, as it was obvious that Renfe’s request were too much, specially with the small timeframe to design, build and test the train of 4 years. The pressures over Talgo to deliver the trains (due to Renfe not having trains to operate the newly built HS lines in northern Spain) made them deliver a train that had unfixed issues. Among these issues: high vibrations, systems shutting down, or simply the whole train stopping for no reason. Talgo blames Renfe for the pressure (also politics got involved) and Adif (the railway administrator) for not letting Talgo test the train with enough frequency in different tracks. And now Renfe wants lawsuit Talgo for the defects on the trains. A thing to notice is that the highly reduced price of these trains is not really due to the cheapness of materials/components, but because it has less bogies (or rodales as Talgo calls them), which highly reduces the price. On a side note, the seats are Renfe’s issue, nothing to do with Talgo as such (they install the seating the customer asks for), just like all the interior layout.
In my personal opinion, Talgo was too ambitious with this train. The funny part is that IT IS capable of doing all they promised, but with compromises that could not get fixed with the time they had. Also, the vibrations vary a lot with the tracks, as this train goes outside of the HS line too (the only one to do so in the Spanish network), and on wether the specific variant is gauge changing or not. Additionally, the wheels have a totally more technology that aligns them automatically with the track to reduce stress and make the train more efficient, and it’s been rumored that that’s the cause of the elevated shaking. I hope that they will fix the issues on the train as they did with the S130 back then, which has now become a pretty reliable train (although it also experiences some vibrations, but not much more than other trains). The layout and seats should just be a little investment from Renfe, which I hope they do.
No man, that´s not the point. First of all Renfe NEVER asked for a 360 km/h train. This train is certified for 300 like all others, and some systems/subsystems for 330 km/h (meaning that they have to reach at some point in tests 360 km/h (+30 km/h than the speed to be certified). Secondly, Talgo was never too ambitous with this train. Talgo got the contract based on lowering prices to a dangerous extreme (price 28% lower than the others) of only 22 million per train. This is in fact a really a LOW COST train.
Therefore they had to design their parts taking this low price into account. Most of the problems are being caused by the traction chain (which was previously from Bombardier and which Talgo broke the agreement because they were too expensive). Now the drive chain software is from Talgo instead of the manufacturer Ingeteam (meaning more problems Since Talgo had to develope that software without any experience). Talgo sold to Renfe a train that didn´t exist !!
Who is guilty, Talgo for selling something that did not exist, or REnfe for buying something that did not exist?
The reality is that since the Franco era, Talgo has been a company protected by the state... and with that purchase capital was given to the company to be able to continue existing, at the cost of having purchased a product that is not even a prototype ! Renfe (and the Spanish) has financed the research and development of this train. And now we see the reality!
Reminds one of the British APT
@@DIASDEMUSICA 22 mln is insanely cheap, if you consider that hitachi/bombardier/Ansaldo Breda charges trenitalia 40 mln for the etr1000
I find the title of your video quite demagogic. Surely it is not the best high speed service, but a 3 hours journey in a brand new train at 300km/h for 37€ definetly is not the worst service of Europe at all. In fact, it is an excellent value for money.
Exactly, I agree with you and the experience on the train is not that bad except for the small bumps
It seems to be a trend, THE trend now to criticize Talgo Avril fiercely. I wonder WHAT is REALLY behind all this hysteria...
@@vittopo786 Easy - it's a terrible train 😂
@@OMtheRails and the word WORST in capital letters. Everything in compliance with all the rules of black PR and marketing.
The rivals have decided to vilify Talgo and hired a bunch of " travellers " or is it a kind of revenge from Magyar Vagon? 😉
Yeah, we pay 3 times that for half the speed and double the hours. For the cost per kph, some compromise is more than fair. I mean, it might not be great but for just €37.. its about as good as any flight if not better when time save is factored surely..
I disagree with the title, the content and the conclusions of this video.
There was something similar happening in Poland last year, where it was discovered that the train manufacturer deliberately was messing up with train software so the trains were breaking at predefined time intervals. Obviously that given train manufacturer was the only one able to fix the issues. All this was discovered by a group of hackers employed by a train repair company...
Just a comment about the wireless headphone connection. The interface is not clear but you can connect bluetooth headphones by clicking on the headset icon in the upper right corner. Tried it yesterday, works well, it even stops the audio/movie if an announcement is going on
Brilliant, many thanks for the information!
@@Atreas1845 What a load of nonsense lol, I even said in the video I like other Talgo products 🤣
There are three problems mainly:
One is of course the trains, since the RENFE of PP Administration of M. RAJOY in 2016 contracted a train, the one in the video in question, which should have cost between 35 and 40 million and they left it at the extraordinary bargain of 22 million, which that infamous government boasted about, along with the rush to have it available. And from those dusts comes these muds, a very Spanish saying that has been used a lot lately.
The second issue is the infrastructure Madrid-Asturias High Speed lines, as well as the Madrid-Galicia one, which ARE UNFINISHED. This is an important detail, since there are areas with only one track in operation, which during times of high demand become a "bottleneck" that greatly limits and conditions the circulation of trains. Another important issue is that, especially in Galicia, from Ourense onwards, there is a change in track width that is not working too well either, and which is the cause of continuous delays.
The third problem runs parallel to the second, and is the lack of maintenance of these complex infrastructures that require continuous special attention and that, due to the tremendous investment in opening new kilometers of High Speed, are being neglected, which results in constant failures of the catenary and the electrical supply that leave trains stranded in the middle of their journeys.
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING??? Well, Talgo has been around for years and years, it's hardly a new and untried concept, there seem to be a few issues with these but they seems to be related to the dynamics of the design, it's hardly as if RENFE chose something completely untried. They did specify a cheap style of seat and a high density seating layout, that is true
Those Nayax card terminals on vending machines are responsible for sooooo many lost sales. I've noticed in UK stations, they've swapped 'em out for simpler card terminals
The airport style safety check, became mandatory after the 11 March of 2004 islamic terrorist attacks on several regional trains, that killed 193 people. So i'm glad that the safety controls are there.
The terrorist attacks happened on Cercanías not high speed.
@@reggytwobit Was after those terrorist attacks in March 2004 when the AVE started with those controls. In cercanias.... imposible... would mean total collapse.
FYI: Talgo III trainsets for national services (not the international RD ones) already had 2+2 seating in 1st class (as well as in 2nd). The difference between both classes was the seat pitch.
Also, last time I checked, it WAS possible to book a premium seat with an Interrail pass (for a higher fee). Are you sure this has changed?
Your comments in the video and the images.... dont fit really good.... (the images show a really good product). I have traveled in the Siemens Velaro (ICE...) High Speed trains and they have really unconfortable seats, hard like rocks. Besides the difference of level with the floor, at the time of boarding them makes old people, women with big trolleys, etc the need to ask for help. Crazy concept. That doesnt happen with any Talgo. Did u forget to comment it? 😇
It is a fierce campaign against Talgo going on. Huge sums of money are at stake...
An interesting assessment. Unfortunately, ride quality seems to have gone downhill on modern rolling stock. Certainly true with the current class 80x in the UK compared with the old Mk3 stock. Some of that is to do with the need to fit within modern absolute gauge requirements (Uniform Structure Gauge (USG) EN 15273), with the avoidance of air suspension for that reason, but there was something well done with the old Mk3s, especially when the permanent way wasn’t perfect.
Nobody here seems to know how this train is wider than others and is capable of sitting 3+2. Talgo trainsets are very sophisticated and hardly presumable of being cheap. Renfe wanted a Mercedes with a Vespa engine.
This is depending from you are from, if you are British or American, travel in a high speed train is something special and you want services on it, for Spanish, travel in high speed trains is a routine so any train that takes you to the place you want on time is a good train, and this one is the best basically because it can take you to places other models can’t, new technology comes with problems that it will be fixed, but think that you couldn’t have done this trip if this train doesn’t exist.
Depends as it was still possible to do this route with the Alvia S130s, albeit at 250km/h. The Avrils essentially make the ex-Alvias AVE routes now (where they replace the S130s), so any remaining services not covered by the Avril are still Alvias, which aren’t as bad.
@@OMtheRails correcto
@@Atreas1845 What a load of nonsense lol, I even said in the video I like other Talgo products 🤣
Recently experienced the same journey with this train, one direction in the low-cost AVLO variant, and back in the regular AVE (both standard class). I can confirm the funky issues with various onboard systems also mentioned on this video (passenger entertainment system, carriage screen, vending machines). I have seen other passengers managing to buy something after trying several times, in my case it just wouldn't work. Less of a problem in AVE as you can just go to the bar, in AVLO you don't have that option. Enterntainment and information screens - these are really minor issues, a bit embarassing, but nothing that really affects your journey. Wifi worked, although I had some issues with the useless registration of a phone number (just make it open, come on ...).
However, both times there were some smaller delays (10 - 20 min), which seem to be quite the norm.
I hope all of these are teething issues soon to be fixed as both the route (north of León) and the train has been put into service very recently. The route is also being in the process of being upgraded between León and the newly opened Pajares tunnel to a standard gauge high-speed section as well.
I think the bumpiness of the ride is exaggered, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary on the high-speed section. Yes, on the regular, partly quite curvy and old sections in the north it is a bit bumpy, but not more than with other trains on such sections (I don't think there is a difference to the Series 130 which I know on this route quite well, and I don't think it is much different from Austrian (non-Talgo) trains on regular sections. In particular the stopping in stations was just normal.
My main issue is the seating layout, that should have just remained 2-2 and 1-2 in the AVE version and they should have used the extra space for comfort. The legroom is quite generious still (I am 1.93 tall and legroom is normally an issue, especially on planes), although not as extremely generous as it was on the S-130, IMO adding another row per carriage but changing to 2-2 would be much better. Or mby they should consider a 3-class configuration, with only some 3-2 sections in the AVE.
The duck nosed Talgo and the Haramain havent been so widely criticised. Im curious as to why this one appears to have had such a bad reception
Also note that swedish trains, are 2 + 2 first class, they are 3.4 m wide. Likewise KTX EMUs and Shinkansen Green Car.
Because competitors want to erase Talgo as a rival for bids from railways. Now Talgo is being in bad financial situation and the competitors feel it a high time to start a defamation campaign against new Talgo projects.
In place of Talgo, I would sue you for defamatory video.
Thank you for this interesting video. I am surprised at your many criticisms of this new Talgo variant, having travelled on every other type other type, which I find very good. The Talgo trains have always had single axles, and generally they ride pretty well, especially at high speed between Barcelona and Madrid. Let’s hope the new ones settle down soon ! Interestingly Deutsche Bahn are now taking delivery of a large fleet of Talgo trains which will be locomotive hauled in push-pull mode between Berlin and Amsterdam. Now that really will be a train to try out !
Thank you for the comment! I personally like the previous generations of Talgos in Spain, the issue here is that a lot of corners seem to be cut with the Avril and it's just poorly built. Hopefully now that Renfe are seeking compensation from Talgo, this should make them pull their finger out to improve them!
So comparing these train sets to the high speed trains built by Alstom and Siemens which do you prefer for ride quality? (Im not familiar with Hitachi and Stadler’s high speed product line in Europe)
Welcome back OM the Rail, fantastic videos you have, keep up the great work and can’t wait to see what you make next👍🏾😁 Sorry to hear about the train though 😅
Not to worry, many thanks for your comments. It’s good to be back!
You ahould be proud about the things that ACTUALLY were working like A/C, lights... ahhh it was moving... seriously, those train often suffer from electricity issues, sometimes leaving passengers stuck for hours shutted down.
I was just happy to get off the thing alive afterwards tbh!
You can connect wireless headphones to the screens using Bluetooth.
Yes i did enjoy watching your Talgo Avril High Speed Train review, not a bad price fare for the distance you traveled all-in-all., pitty about all those issues you experienced while onboard. That buffetcar food selection looked pretty good though, awesome travel video there OM the Rails👍
Thank you! Yes I agree - I do hope now that Renfe are getting more aware of the issues with these trains that improvements will come sooner rather than later.
@@brian402 Yeah, Pity him! He must hace suffered a lot during that trip. He may have lost some weight being under the stress.
Absolutely biased, prejudiced and, maybe, made on purpose...video
Great price though. Especially compared to other European countries.
what is the advantage of the single axle design over traditional articulated sets such as the TGV?
Less screeching around curves
You can have a different speed on each wheel which increases speed on curves.
Lightness. TALGO gauge changing system is based on these independent axles.
I've only been on a Talgo train once, on the Iberian gauge (not high-speed) and I remember it being particularly bumpy and not exactly comfortable (I was in 2nd class). I imagine there have been improvements to the wheelsets now but it doesn't seem suited to high-speed running. Also, what's with the front-end design of these sets. It seems particularly uninspired and bland.
Those trains are way better than the trains in your country
If I remember correctly, the front end was redesigned so it could operate in France (I believe their requirements facilitated a design change), though I personally don't mind it.
That was my thinking too, but I never had major issues with the previous Talgos; yes the ride quality wasn't desirable, but nowhere near as bad as the Avril.
@@OMtheRails That's interesting (about France). They do somewhat resemble single deck versions of the Duplex front ends, although the new TGV-M is radically different and much more exciting. Can't wait 'til they hit the rails. I live in Lyon and I believe Lyon-Paris will be the first line served by them.
The two wheels per carriage has been a point for some time. It may be that a bo-bo formation doesn’t work with the gauge change. However no excuse for 3 by 2 seating or poor quality seats. Leave that to the brits.
The power cars are bo-bo aren't they?
Talgo - as always (sadly) - is doing a great job to once again deliver a disappointing product. The step free access is a real plus but Talgos design leads to reaaaally uncomfortable rides, even at low speeds.
Is the ride quality of Talgo class 102/112 better?
I still can't understand why the oldest model Renfe S102, or the Renfe S730, are better than the newest model 😂
I believe the older talgos (talgo 3, 4, 5 and 6) worked very very well but unfortunately only the talgo 6 is left in service, and not many are around
Tú flipas. Está muy claro que no eres nada objetivo y que sólo quieres dañar la imagen de los trenes españoles.
Eres completamente deshonesto.
Objetivamente el ruido y las vibraciones son mayores en Iryo, y la dureza de los asientos no es mejor.
He viajado muchas veces en trenes Talgo y siempre me han parecido muy confortables y silenciosos.
Eres un mentiroso.
@@uncipaws7643Ride quality in talgo class 102 is definitely much better, in my experience comparable to the velaro and frecciarosa units, even if a tiny bit more shakey, but certainly not uncomfortable.
For me the new high speed train is not bad
It feels like we are unable to get anything done these days, no airplanes, no trains, even Tesla sucks.
Why is it not possible to use the talgo system with 4 wheels? Instead of having one set of wheels for two coaches.
@@racingweirdo the key of Talgo trainsets is that every carriage is mounted on the wheels of the previous one, this way coaches guide each other through the curves and higher speeds are possible with a lower mass. This is only possible if two consecutive carriages share the same two wheels
The whole point of the Talgo system is to have these shared bogies. It's meant to increase comfort (lol), and especially to reduce weight. This is the reason why this train is by far the lightest HST in existence compared to passenger count.
Talgo trains don't have bogies except the motor cars. Talgo use wheel sets with two independent wheels. The wheel sets are between the coaches.
And the wheels are not connected by an axle and each is independently steered. This is why they are so efficient and low wearing on the track.
@@osasunaitor Isn't that just like a jacobs bogie?
How can you know which type of unit will operate on each service ?
This one was fairly easy as they operate ex-Alvia routes from Madrid to Northern Spain - just search for these routes (i.e. Madrid to A Coruña and Madrid to Gijon) and any AVE service will be the Talgo Avril ✌️
Sounds like a classic case of doing too much in one train.
Can please every high speed rail company buy Stadler Girunos in the SBB config. They are just the BEST high speed tains around. I know thay can't change gauge, just electrical system, but they are low floor, high speed and Stadler has gauge change technology, which right now absolutely sucks, but it's improving
Oh, and: What camera do you use for filming? :)
GoPro Hero 10. Looking to upgrade soon potentially though!
Ice are still much more unfortable
First I didn't thought the train is that bad, but a NEW train without bicycle spaces, how sad is that?
This is an ongoing problem with the spanish authorities. They are allergic to micromobility solutions.
You have this spaces in regional trains but not in high distance trains, at least here in Spain
@@iarrieta I knew about the regional trains, now I hoped that the new high-speed trains would also come with bicycle spaces, but we'll probably have to wait longer...😪
@@mariosphere It was started in 2016 so there was no law about that still
Excuse me, you go from.Madrid to Barcelona to ride a bicycle?
Have you understood what you've just said?😂
E.T.A. mentioned :o
Great trip report!
A friend of mine tried it recently, he was super excited to experience it and then very disappointed afterward.
He found the ride quality to be abysmal, to the point he's worrying about the effect these trains have on tracks and potential wear and tear.
Initially, I thought it was just a one-time issue, and my friend had ridden a faulty train, but it's the second trip report I watch that says the same.
Usually, Jacobs bogies tend to be the type of wheel assembly that causes the least wear and tear on the rails due to the fact that they are the point of articulation of the train, reducing screeching in turns.
Compared to regular bogies, two per carriage, that impose more friction by being distant from the points of articulation. (They are also more numerous than Jacobs bogies)
So I don't know about these new Talgo trains with yet another tyoe of wheel assembly, they have single inter-carriage wheels, apparently not even on an axle and no bogies except under the power cars. This is very interesting and could be a great system, but it seems like there are real issues with ride quality.
My friend said it felt like the wheels were constantly hitting the rails, hammering the track instead of gliding on it. He felt itching in the ear canals and a bit nauseous with the vibrations.
Having inter-carriage wheel assemblies should reduce wear and tear on the tracks, but the ride quality suggests the opposite. Is it just a dampening issue that could be solved by tweaking the trains?
It will be interesting to see the results of the type's certification process in France, as they are quite sensitive to the wear and tear on tracks of each train type.
Talgo has a new Talgo Avril 2.0. Maybe all problems are soft.
Even if the ride feels bumpy, this is probably the train model in circulation in Spain that wears the tracks the least.
This train is incredibly light, and the comfort problems are more due to lack of suspension than the wheels actually acting differently than other models.
@@MocomaminecraftYTOficial If it was only vibrations, sure. But my friend said it felt like the wheels were literally hammering the tracks, not just shacking.
Especially when passing switches, as if they were battering the switch blades The same kind of feeling as passing joints on non-continuously welded rails, when the wheels hit the next piece of rail but stronger.
If that's the case, I'm worried about the tracks.
If it's only due to a lack of suspension, then great, at least it's not deteriorating the tracks that fast, though the ride quality remains an issue.
But wouldn't the mere fact of lacking suspension have an effect on the track, too?
I don't recall the "pato" Talgo trains having such vibrations and shocks while riding (those I have ridden).
@@KyrilPG I'm no expert, but I do believe that is mainly the lack of suspension. Other trains have the same "hammering" of the wheels as this s106 units, you just don't feel it.
About the s102, its many factors. First, they are not gauge-changing, which is probably the main source of bad ride quality in the s106, but also Talgo has been tweaking them for years until the current point. They were much shakier when they came out. There is some hope that the same happens to the s106
@@MocomaminecraftYTOficial Are you sure that the other trains' wheels hammer the track the same way as the 106? Apparently, you can even hear it in the 106, whereas I've never heard nor felt such jolting in the 100, 103, or even 102...
The suspension dampens the hammering for passengers but also for the track and wheels, just like a vehicle with hard suspension, or no suspension, deteriorates more a road than one with soft suspension.
This was noted in the 1980's when the very first version of the TGV switched from hard spring coil suspensions to much softer pneumatic ones : this led to a reduction in wear and tear on the line, not just a much smoother ride quality for passengers.
I remember the 102 having a notably rougher ride quality than the 100 or 103, but it was well within the "acceptable range" I should say.
Renfe seems really not happy about the AVRIL's vibrations, I don't recall them being so bothered about other trains' teething problems. Were they?
Just FYI, these sets have turned out so bad Renfe is going to sue Talgo over it
Yeah I saw, who knew it would get to that stage so soon lol
@@OMtheRails Not to defend Talgo on how terrible the train is but the seats are Renfe's fault. Is Renfe who orders the seats the way they want, same as any Train operator
Ah yes, the Talgos. They are supercars of rail: light, very fast, very good at cornering... and with a horrible ride quality. Essentially one axel per car, while most competitors have four.
It looks very much like this is a fantastic concept executed very badly. Because of the gauge changing I can completely understand a slightly bumpier ride. What I can't understand is the 2+2 first class, 2+3 standard class and the entertainment systems. A better interior layout could result in a fantastic travel experience.
That said, this layout might make perfect sense for the low cost Avlo services where people will be more willing to compromise on comfort to have a much cheaper journey.
Exactly my point, but there are just too many technical faults with it too which is a real shame. I could possibly ignore the bad ride quality to an extent if they actually got most of the features to work and installed comfier seats.
Spain liberalized HS routes and renfe is losing a pice of the cake to ouigo (SNCF) and iryo (trenitalia+Spanish air company). Renfe asked for those trains to cover routes that don't have standard gauge till the biggest cities in the route (Galicia, Asturias, etc), this way Renfe aviod competitors cause no one can put HS trains to Santiago or Oviedo.
Also they needed bigger trains (or just more trains) cause alll these 3 companies can't absorb all the demand, everytime a new route is open their trains are full (these crappy trains are allways full, over 85% ocupation for now). Compared with France or Germany, Spain has a limited number of rolling stock, Renfe just wanted to solve all this at once, and also with cheap trains and this is the result.
I guess talgo trains for Denmark and Germany won't have these issues, cause the pay for them
33 built and split equaly? how?
Maybe 1 set was split in half?? 😂
30 built and split equally as stated in the video, not 33.
I hate wireless headphones. They generally have lower sound quality and batteries that go flat. I'll take my Hi Res cabled headphones every time.
totally agree, it's a useless gimmick
and still: it's 2024 most people use wireless head phones. And about the battery: my is good for 50 hours. that means I can hear music for two days in a row. that should be enough for the most of us..... and like in aircrafts: you can still use your plug-in phones, so everbody wins! ;-)
In Malaysia we have some EMU ( ETS) from Rotem and they are very bad. Noisy and uncomfortable. The Chinese are much better than Rotem.
I believe that French low-cost carrier OuiGo also has 3+2 seating in their trains…?
Incorrect, they only have 2+1, 2+2, 3+1.
Not on their TGV Duplex based trains. I took Ouigo 1st class and even that is 2+1 and I remember the regular cars were 2+2.
As far as I know OUIGO has 2+2 and on some carriages a rather unusual 3+1 configuration.
@@neurofrank9967 3+1, great for Dad to escape Mum and kids.
@@neurofrank9967I hope they get rid of this 3+1lay out. I'm not seeing any benefit for them anyway.
This is such a typical British response 🙈 you have an overall good product/experience yet you find every negative thing and let that define the whole experience. Spanish trains are some of the best in Europe. Are they perfect? No, nothing is. But if I were to compare the trains in Spain to anywhere else in Europe, I’d say you get a damn good value for money.
The trains we have in Norway don’t come anywhere close to the quality nor speed you get in Spain, and in the UK, your trains are outrageously expensive for what you get in return.
"Overall good product" 😂
This is not doubting Spain's high speed rail at all, I've posted many videos on the channel before highlighting the positives. But this is just a terrible train, even Renfe and the Spanish government are seeking compensation from Talgo as they're ruining the AVE brand. One thing I don't understand is, why are so many people so adamant in admitting this? I survived 8 hours on this thing so I have every right to express how disappointed the final product came out.
The Frecciarossa 500 and 1000 are the best high-speed trains in Europe!
For sure, fantastic trains!
Lol you wish they are not reliable at all, shake like crazy and interior is narrow. The absolute best trains are either TGV Oceanne or ICE 3neo
@@hypernewlapse you have terrible taste in design if you like those trains! the ICEs are the ugliest in Europe, inside and out, sloppy and dull
@@intersezioni maybe the one with the terrible taste is you! 😂
My favorite from the outside is the TGV. The Frecchiarossa 1000 is nice too, but the 500 is just ugly as hell. The ICE trains (especially the ICE 3) look nice and neat. Not to mention the newest generation which will be launched in 2025 for the _California High Speed Rail._ But from the inside the _Siemens Velaro_ train sets (ICE) aren't beaten by anyone. It's a classy modern look which sets the standard for the interieur of High Speed Trains.
I don't like the Italian and German ICE high speed trains because the entrance is very high. The Talgo trains have low floor and an excellent assebililty for travellers in a wheelchair etc.
El nuevo tren de Talgo es excelente como todos los trenes de Talgo.
Estos trenes adaptan el giro de sus ejes de forma que las ruedas permanecen siempre tangentes a la via, y los ejes perpendiculares. Esto elimina la tendencia al descarrilamiento de los ejes tradicionales y de los bogies, y permite que los vagones sean mucho más ligeros manteniendo un paso por curva de alta velocidad con completa seguridad.
Además, son trenes extremadamente bajos, lo que disminuye el riesgo de vuelco y mejora su velocidad, aparte de ofrecer una accesibilidad sin rival, en la que no hay que subir ni un solo escalón para acceder al tren.
Su mayor ligereza permite remontar las subidas y acelerar con mayor facilidad, lo que permite una mayor velocidad media.
El confort de los trenes Talgo es excelente, igual o superior al resto de trenes. Esto es algo que el fabricante Talgo mide CIENTÍFICAMENTE y que tiene muy estudiado.
Yo personalmente he comprobado muchas veces cómo estos trenes a velocidades por debajo de 200 kmh PARECE QUE ESTÁN PARADOS, porque no se nota nada.
Tampoco he tenido nunca ninguna queja sobre los asientos, que siempre me han parecido perfectamente cómodos, y siempre he viajado muy a gusto en ellos y los viajes se me han hecho cortos.
Trenes como los Iryo (Frecciarossa ETR 1000) son más ruidosos y tienen igual o más vibraciones. Las vibraciones dependen mucho de las vías y poco de los trenes.
El uso de ejes simples y no dobles no aumenta el ruido ni las vibraciones sino que LAS DISMINUYE al haber MENOS RUEDAS PRODUCIENDO VIBRACIONES.
LO CIENTÍFICO ES COMPARAR LOS TRENES CIRCULANDO POR LAS MISMAS VÍAS Y A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD Y CON LA MISMA CARGA, porque todo eso afecta a las vibraciones.
Comparar trenes arbitrariamente, en líneas diferentes, en trazados diferentes y en vías diferentes, y sin hacer ninguna medida científica es totalmente arbitrario y ridículo.
Eso es totalmente SUBJETIVO y NO CIENTÍFICO.
Tú sólo eres un ignorante que se cree muy listo,
NO TIENES NI IDEA DE TRENES, NI DE FÍSICA, NI DE CIENCIA.
SÓLO ERES UN IGNORANTE INGLÉS, LLENO DE ENVIDIA PORQUE EN TU PAÍS NO TENÉIS UNA GRAN RED DE ALTA VELOCIDAD, Y MUCHO MENOS UNA COMO LA ESPAÑOLA, QUE ES LA MÁS GRANDE DE EUROPA.
Y POR SUPUESTO, TAMBIÉN TE DA ENVIDIA QUE ESPAÑA FABRIQUE TRENES DE ALTA TECNOLOGÍA COMO LOS TALGO.
I mean with all due respect Renfe and the Spanish Government are seeking financial compensation from Talgo with how poorly these turned out, so it seems the people who actually matter agree with my views...
And for the record, I do like the Talgo 350s and 250s (I've rode them before on previous trips to Spain) - the Avril's just simply a terrible train!
Gracias por su respuesta en la que se ve que sabe de lo que se habla, técnicamente y científicamente.
Estos vídeos, en los que parecen inspectores técnicos, más que informar lo que hacen es escandalizar. No se puede desprestigiar de esta forma un tren porque al youtober de turno dé su opinión personal. Hay muchos factores que influyen para comparar distintos trenes. Saludos
@@OMtheRailsEl AVRIL será terrible desde tu punto de vista, que pareces un doctor de la materia.
@@OMtheRailsSerá terrible desde tu punto de vista 🤔
llevo tres años trabajando en el proyecto f-70, lo conozco a fondo, no tienes ni idea de lo que estas diciendo, de verdad
Welcome back mate.
Great video once again. Keep up the good work.
Thanks mate, good to be back!
@@OMtheRails I got a request for you.
Could you try out the WMR 730's since they are now on the Cross City line now?
I have been on 2 of them so far this year. One for my 400 subscriber special and the second for my 600 subscriber special which I am in the process of making right now.
@@joemercedeschannel196 I'm planning on doing the LNR ones when they're in service, but unsure about the WMR ones at present. Already got quite a lot in the backlog as it is!😅
Nice that our ICE 4 trains are not so bad although they are not as fast with 250-265 km/h and we have a better first class ;-) with love from Germany
Worst for you but cool to America
KTX-EUM(3rd Gen KTX up to 260km/h) and EMU-320(3rd Gen KTX up to 320km/h) looks much better than that one.
I don't understand why Talgo tried to compete with Hyundai Rotem in 3rd Generation KTX Program.
I love a smooth quiet train ride so Talgo Avril is not for me. Another UA-cam blogger also complained about the ride quality.
Yeah, put all your confidence in UA-cam bloggers who travel all around the world 🌍 having mysterious sources of their income.
I'm not convinced by the potential of single axle (bogieless) wheelsets. It's basically a highspeed Pacer. We're getting these things in Germany too.
It's a signature design that Talgo have been making do with for years - the Talgo 350 and 250 models seem to get away with it. My suspicion is a lot of corners were cut in the design and build of the Avril compared to the others...
It,s pure awful english envy!
I'm currently travelling in One and it's awful. Specially the bathroom, what a disgusting smell!
What really dissapoints me is that, as soon as you guys (youtubers) see the opportunity to go and criticise something, there you are, like wolfs running for his food.
It's a new product that needs to be adjusted of course, but you don't even give the chance. It's a matter of trial and error to get better but you give your opinions like if it was the end of the world just because there are a few things to be adjusted (like everything else in life)...
You give it a dislike and I give it to you!...
What really disappoints me is there are a lot of people defending this train when it is simply not good - I like the Talgo 350s and 250s, but Talgo really messed up with the Avril despite some features being good.
Let's not forget Renfe are now seeking compensation from Talgo because even they're disappointed with how poor they are!
Okay karen
@@OMtheRails From Spain: We're sorry.
Talgo max8
What genius thought that single axle shared bogies would make for a smooth ride, even cart sprung bogies on 88 ft. tracks were smoother. Those seats looked less comfortable than the 1960's French and Spanish leatherette park bench hard ones. All blame with the operators for commissioning such rubbish.
Single axe shared bogies have been in use by Talgo since the 1950s, and they are very comfortable if done well. I've used many Talgo trains, and they are smooth. They seem to have F-up things with the Avril, who knows why.
Those Talgo Avril do not share axel because each wheel is independent, that is what Avril stands for. Alta velocidad rueda independiente ligero. So before making an statement you should know what are you talking about.
@@tonys1636 Talgo trains have no axles, never did. Wheels are independent from each other. Talgo used to make decent trains (Renfe already has the Ave 102/112 and Alvia 130 types which are fine) but they have completely screwed up this one.
Muchas better awheel than 4
Ohh how terrible avril is!! really dissappointing! The worse in Europe.. 😂😂😂 let me laugh to be honest. Have you got in the UK high speed to compare with at least?
I mean we do have the Eurostar... not to mention being from the UK I can tell a terrible train when I see one!
@@OMtheRailseurostar is mostly frenchie..you have nothing! Third World trains
Ooops DSB just are buying a bunch of these Talgo coaches and the foamers are all over it . I prefer the older trains , my car , shoes and bicyle myself .
Bullshit train instead of Bullet train
Better than the trains in your country
You don't even have high speed trains
Still better then the Amtrak wannabe high speed trains in the US.
Bruh. The new ICE L from DB germany is also from Talgo(ne) the new talgo(ne) trains are going also to the Netherlands Amsterdam(ned) - Berlin.
I think my Fiat Seicento rally are more comfortabel than the talgone trains haha
Great video😊
The ice L which really is an ic tho, only goes 230 kmh and has no gauge change, hopefully making it better
I wonder how this train got signed off with poor seating and bad ride.
Those trains look small enough that they could run in the UK
Would certainly be an improvement to the Class 800 at least!
@@OMtheRails well not like you can get much worse
You are very negative
It looks really cheap, yes.
I think your driver was as terrible as everything else on this train 😅
You have no idea of what the drivers have to endure with these awful trains.
@@Desi365 the trains are rushed and full of flaws, not only the uncomfortable suspension but all sorts of electrical and mechanical malfunctions are happening all the time.
In fact, the railways company Renfe has just announced today that they will be seeking economic and legal compensations from Talgo for all the delays and cancellations caused by these malfunctions. Yesterday one of these trains remained for 2h dead inside a tunnel without AC and passengers had to smash the emergency windows because they were suffocating inside. It's shameful what Talgo did.
Good grief. Packing people in like sardines. For a 500 mile journey that's terrible. Mind you, once you've been in a Pullman coach everything else sucks - mmmmm, big plush seats. 👍
Low level, it looks like a low cost made in china product, how sad...
We are getting Talgo trains in Denmark and I believe that they are rubbish to 😮
Tú flipas. Tú sí que alucinas.
Los Talgo son muy confortables y tecnológicamente superiores.
Yeah here ik the Netherlands too. The train from Amsterdam too Berlin ICE L.
I called talgone 😂
Talgo💩
PONTE UN PARACAIDAS POR SI ACASO PRINGADO . JAJAJAJA
What I see is a complete FAIL...It was first introduced in 2010 at Innotrans Fair in Berlin, Germany in 2010 (concept) so its wildly beyond me that it would take 14 years to launch....Just remember how bad SEAT was in the past and maybe you all don't know, but recently SEAT was cancelled by VW Group!
Indeed, it’s very disappointing given the time it’s been in development
Its crazy how renfe still hasnt been able to make computers work after 10y of beeing standard on most trains. Screens dont work, wifi doesnt work, their website only does sometimes. Its crazy how can a comoany be this bad with something they can just buy ensewhere
Wifi is a big problem for all train manufacturers. We'll see what Alstom offers with their new TGV next year but it's a basic physics problem, too many people connecting in a tight space, it's hard to provide stable and fast connection.
In the Shinkansens, the connection is notoriously poor, too.
@@Desi365 one thing is having a bad or unstable connection which is totally understandable, we are on a moving train. But, whats unacceptable is not having wifi bc the login system doesnt work. Which is the case on renfe. The login system is internal to the train and doesnt need connection to the internet to work. Its not harder than an airport login, its just incompetence. Same thing dor the entertainment system, which has been present on renfe in different formats for over 15y, and has never worked. And dont get me started with the website