Leica M4-P Secrets... and is the Leica M4-P better than the M6?
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- So you're wondering if the Leica M4-P is better than the Leica M6? In some ways, I believe so. Stay tuned throughout the entire video to find out and also see some sample photos I've taken with this exact setup! Much love to my followers and support.
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I got the M4-P after college back in the 80s. I used a handheld sekonic light meter. It's a beaten up beauty. I like it better than my M6.
Right on, man!
hate the M6, and I had all of them from M2 to M7...love M4-2 and M7
You don’t need an external viewfinder or the framelines, just compose using the whole viewfinder, great video by the way!
Very true!
Very interesting and informative points! Thank you so much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. After watching this, I bought the earlier version of the Leica M4-P with the brass top plate and recessed windows. Thanks1
Good stuff Patrick!
Thanks, Gerhardt!
I definitely learned something new! Little upset though... I was not planning on lusting over another camera today. Gee thanks for that. And thanks for the content. Keep it coming please. I like the educational aspect on the cameras themselves.
I’m glad you learned something you didn’t know before! Hahah didn’t mean to excite the lusting!
I am fortunate to have both cameras and the same 28 mm lens. That was a very informative and well done presentation. RS. Canada
Estimating exposures without a meter is an additional pleasure of photographing, once you acquire the ability.
Well said! I completely agree. What a great way of thinking about it - more as a pleasure and less as a "hassle". Puts a positive spin on it. Its all on how you look at things, right?
i must say after i bought an m6 i realized that you don't need a light meter at all. now i would have definitely bought a m4-p g. good video.👌
Exactly! Once you get used to shooting without a meter, its super easy. Luckily for you, the M6 prices are pretty insane, so you could probably sell it and get an M2, M3, M4-P, etc + a decent little lens like a 40mm Summicron or something. :O
Then again, I'm not hating on the M6. Its an amazing camera and tons of people shoot it. To me, it just has one element I don't need personally - the meter.
@@PatrickStromme Yes that's right. The prices of the M6 are going through the roof. However, it is also one with 0.85 viewfinder magnification because I shoot primarily with 35mm and 50mm. Also, the M6 does quite well as a video title for my film channel. 😅
Years ago when I was shopping for a Leica 35mm M-mount film camera, I narrowed by chice to an M2, M6, and MP.
I had eliminated the M1 because it did not have a built-in rangefinder.
I had eliminated the M3 because it did not handle 35mm focal length lenses well and the first lens I planned on buying was a 35mm f/1.4.
I had eliminated the M5 because I did not like its larger size.
I had eliminated the M7 because it had too much electronics for my taste.
However, based on this video, I cannot remember why I eliminated the M4.
just found this. hope you do more vids!
Thanks! Its been a while with this whole Covid-19 but I'll get out soon!
I'm going to buy a M4-P! So thank you so much.
How do we figure out if an M4P is an earlier version?
i will never sell my m4-p. best camera. love mine to death. bought it as my highschool grad gift to myself. no meter needed. I just whip my little sekonic l-308 out everytime I need a reading. spent the thousands saved on good glass.
Hell yes, my man! Absolutely the way to go! :)
just curious, how did you have that cash has a high school student?!
Meg Fluffy combination of scrimping and saving and a bit of my grad money
Happy with my decision to go with the M4-P. The lower cost vs the m6 was a huge factor for me.
100% worth it. And potentially better built!
Hey Patrick, great review of the M4-P! I’m a first time Leica user and just picked up myself up one as my first Leica. Sorry if this is a silly question but is the ISO dial on it just to remind what speed film you are shooting or can you go up/down stops with it. Thanks for your help. Cheers, Alex
Just a film/ISO reminder, does not work like an exposure compensation dial. Also on the M4-2 and the M4-P the "dial" does not even turn. It is just a fixed disc and you make a mark with a pencil next to the ISO number.
Hi @@anthonymiller8979, thanks so much!
Great job on the video! Love the way you shot it! I think i've made my decision!
Awesome man!
Narcissism of Small Differences as far as Leica Bodies go, great video; ill be watching more!
Hahah, its true. You're right. But in terms of small differences making a BIG difference to users, well, that's basically all Leica M film bodies. They're all very inherently the same.
Hi Patrick, love you video here. I was wondering why the M2 is your favorite Leica ever and was wondering if you would make a video about it?
Absolutely, John! I'm finally back making video's and have a ton in mind. I'll add this one to the list! :)
Nice video man thank you for sharing this info I had no idea the early P has a brass plate. I have a lovely M4 and wanting a second Leica preferably in Black. I have always wanted the M6 but price has shot up recently. M2 is beautiful and kind of regret not getting that instead of the M4 mainly due to the advance lever and rewind knob but it is still a beautiful M4. I’ll do some research on the P. Thank you
Yes! You're basically in the same boat I was! I have a classic M2 but wanted a black Leica. Did a lot of research and realized the M4-P was going to be my next Leica! Look deeper into it all. Its worth it.
Patrick Stromme Sadly, after doing some research I found the going price for the M4-P is around the same price of an M6 on Ebay. I found the M4-2 cheaper than the P. Not sure what is driving up the price of these film cameras but paying over 2K AUD is way more than I would like to pay. It was not long ago I could get an M6 for around 1700 and I picked up a very good condition M4 for 1300 AUD.
@@mjfalcon007 The M4 is a great camera! Yeah I'm not sure why the prices are going up. Especially on this camera. Back in the day this camera was known as a "cheap" Leica, by the purists, but by todays standards its amazing. I think people are just realizing that the M6 isn't the only amazing Leica camera. All of the Leica M film cameras are awesome, to be honest. And I think I said it in the video, but the M2 is my favorite M mount. Its the most basic and most utilitarian.
@@mjfalcon007 Unless you were into the M4-P's 28/75 framelines, the M4-2's a better match to the M4 - same viewfinder, same grip, the only difference is the hot shoe, engravings, and a slight tweak in the optics on later copies.
In The Study thank you for the information I appreciate it.
I have an M4-P and an M6 TTL. My personal experience? I prefer to use the M6 for color and M4-P for B&W. Why? I feel more secure when the photometer helps me choose speed and aperture with color film. For B&W sunny 16
Yeah having two bodies is great for that. I do the same with my M2 and M4-P. One color and one for black and white. I would LOVE to shoot an M6 TTL .58x for the 28mm framelines because it’s hard to see them with glasses on in an M4-P and M6 classic, hence the reason why I like the external finder.
@@PatrickStromme is that magnification more expensive and harder to get?
Great vid Pat! I too made my decision after this however i need recommendations on where to buy the m4-p and what is the average price they are going for now. I have never purchased anyting off of ebay and am not sure how it works safety wise. Thanks
Its tough. I got mine in-person from a local leica seller IgorCamera. If you google that, you can see his website. Highly recommend. All Leica's are unfortunately going up in price a lot these days. Good luck!!!!
nice video, just wondering, your sample photos are really good, but how did you meter the light? or you were just guessing? or you used a light meter?
Thank you! I have shot without a meter for 4 years. Its easy. I shoot by memory and intuition. You should try it! After a few rolls you'll have it mostly figured out. Makes you WAY faster not to have to meter.
I have both the M6 and M4-P. The M4-P can have a light meter attached to top if you can fine the MR-2 meter. I have one and it works really well.
Ahhh absolutely! They do add a little bulk, but those external light meters work great. I've also heard good stuff about the Voigtlander one, as well.
The leicameters feel like shit imo and many of them are no longer working.
@@plutottootrop2614 I have one, and it performs just fine.
Cleaned the thing inside out, and use it regularly
Great video! I’m massively torn though and I was wondering if I could get an opinion. I’ve got the chance to get an M3 (D.S. Model) with 50mm Summicron, however I’m not sure whether to go for the M4/2/P or the M6 and get lenses for either of the latter. It’s my first Leica purchase and obviously I can’t just go to a store and try these things out all at once. What made you not keep the M3 and would you recommend one of the others over that model? Thanks 🙏
Absolutely! I know how that goes! Basically you want the M3 only if you're planning on shooting 50mm lenses in my opinion. If you feel like you're going to want to shoot wider formats than that, then go with something like the M4-2/P. M6's these days are soooo so expensive. So you could get a nice Leica M4-P or M4 or even M4-2 and pick up a nice 35mm Nokton or 50mm Planar Zeiss for the price of a nice M6. I've heard so many good things about the Voigtlander 28mm Ultron too, if you're into a nice wide that still gives some nice bokeh. OR get yourself an M4-2/P and get a 40mm Summicron, thats what I've been using lately and absolutely LOVE that combo. Ease back if you want a 35 focal length, take a step forward to get into the 50mm zone with nice bokeh. Its a killer lens and they're just starting to go up in price since people are shooting more film lately and they'll keep going up. Besides that, they're the smallest M-mount Leica and its so micro!
Follow me on insta and I'll send you a few pics!
Patrick Stromme thanks so much for the advice! A friend of mine has had an M4-P for some time now and swears by it but I’m one of those who likes to get all of the facts from different places before committing. It’s a curse haha! I’ll be sure to follow now!
Enjoyed your video! Would you have any idea of the serial number range for the Leica m4-p with the brass top plate? Thanks.
Not quite sure... a few google searches using "Leica M4-P, serial number, top plate, brass" should help you find out fairly quickly! Good luck! Awesome camera!
Interesting how everybody got their own fav Leica. For me, they are M-A or M7.
How do you see 28mm frame lines while wearing glasses?
I were glasses and tried an M2, I couldn’t see at once all the 35 lines...
I know. Its a major bummer. I actually almost always use the leica external viewfinder when shooting with the 28mm lens. Even tho the M4-P has the 28mm framelines its difficult for me to see with my glasses. The external finder is better than any Leica M viewfinder on any leica camera because it is both brighter and wider and clearer. So thats how I use my 28mm.
Shove your glasses harder lol
I finally made my decision, and I'm very excited to announce which one I went with, so thank you for making this video !
I went ahead and ordered a second Olympus Mju II (in black) and 100 rolls of black & white film (Bergger, a nice, even film). Okay, so the Mju II doesn't have a red dot, but it does have a "all-weather" sticker on it. Side by Side with the Leicas, the Mju II is very hard to beat, imo. Very nice video btw, I don't know how I got here lol
Oh man! Thats a fun idea! Simply sticking with the MJUII and 100 rolls of film is epic. Fun choice.
How to recognise a early version against later version if you are buying online?
Look for the recessed rangefinder windows like on the M2 in my video. Notice how they are the same? Thats how you know its early version.
more videos of this pls.. thanks
Will get on it!
@@PatrickStromme thanks subscribed for this!!!
Just posted another vid! Thanks for the encouragement!
Good camera
Its a great camera!
Thanks for this! Subscribed!
Is there any way to identify if an m4-p is an early version (without asking lol)?
Recessed viewfinder window was used on the brass top plate versions. He mentions that in the video
@@anthonymiller8979 not all M4-Ps with the recessed [ pre M6 ] viewfinder come with top brass plate. !!!
good vid
Thank you! Finally starting to make more!
I think it isnt better. All is about price. It is like i said Leica m3 is better becouse You can go for a little compromise to get in to Leica system and forget about rapid loading, 35mm frames and sometime selector if it is older version.
The best about Leica m3 is it was made like "fit to adjust" not replace if it broke like in M4P and the true is... M4-P really can be in bad condition. Same like Leica m3 and M6 ;)
Like i said all it is about the price ;)
Cheers. I really like Your Video ;)
My M4-P has a zink top plate but still the set back window!
Wow! Must be right in the moment they transitioned! Cool!
Same here, zince top, recessed window (serial nr 1587783)
@@Meloen5 How do you know it's zinc if it has the recessed windows?
@@inthestudy The scuffs it has don't show brass under the black paint... Or it is a zinc topplate, or I haven't worn the paint down enough yet...
@@Meloen5 Melon Gelon That's normal on a brass top plate. The black chrome finish doesn't adhere well to plain brass, so Leica uses a multiple step plating process - every brass M4-P actually has a thin layer of normal chrome plating under the black, which is why you see grey under the black when it wears down.
Eventually, it will wear further to brass. Don't worry, you have the good type of top plate, no corrosion is in your future. :)
so true...sold my Ma and buy back an M4-2 duecto the recess viewfinder ...no more finger print ! also: the M4-2 solid mecanism witth steel wheels and not brass so they are far more durable . it was to support the electrical motor.
Also the M 4-2 at least has the condenser in the viewfinder and so it is as clean as the Mp/ M7
The photos at the end of this made it worth... Whew, it was close tho. Sidenote: Why is the M2 your favorite Leica ever ?!
Its just the most basic and utilitarian! Was there too much explaining for you? Glad you liked the photos!
@@PatrickStromme Nah, wasn't too much explaining.. I'm an M4-P owner myself and did thorough research on it before I purchased. I'm just impatient most times and want the goods asap ! lol. My mind thinks visuals 24/7. Hitting us with photos to start, then dialogue, then photos at the end or more (during) woulda been a nice format too. All good tho, keep doing what ur doing !
The Topshelf Company thank you! Any advice to better my videos and the channel is greatly appreciated. Love the camera too. She’s a beast.
The M6 feels like a child's toy after picking up an M4-P.
It’s not that the M6 is bad in any way! Leica is Leica! But I just don’t think the prices of an M6 should exceed that of the M4-P by $1000+ these days!
@@PatrickStromme Yup. Agreed.
The M4-P is such a nice camera to hold. It features heavily in the Bradley Cooper horror movie The Midnight Meat Train, where he plays a New York photographer in the trail of a series of murders.
Oh man, I'll have to check it out!
@@PatrickStromme Yeah, I got so excited when I saw that camera in the movie!
My M4-P has a resest window but no brass top plate! And the viewfinder of my M4-P is darker then my M6 viewfinder!
Woah. So it’s zinc?
Also the M4-P is half the price of an M6, and made by Leitz in Canada
ok, i believe you, let me get a m4p.
and try one day the brilliant M7 who open liberty on apperture without looking out of the viewfinder.
In a few words, why is the M2 your favorite Leica M?
I had both the M4-P and the M6 for several years. For me the M4-P didn't have any practical advantage whatsoever. Not having to resort to an external meter with the M6 was godsend. Guesstimation and sunny 16 works more often than not but you will inevitably loose shots and miss precious moments where blown/blocked highlights and empty shaddows arent fun at all. I you're serious about the results discussing disadvantages of the M6 is just talk about sour grapes. There isn't anythings besides irrelevant details which you probably never notice when unsing them side by side, you just don't want to spent the money, end of story. Which doesn't mean the M4-P isn't a nice camera in its own right. I still have and love an M4.
unfortunately even though it is brass, the paint is black-chrome paint, meaning the brass it painted over with chrome first then black paint, so if the black paint fades (if ever, cause these are much more durable than the black paint models) it'll just turn chrome.
What you're thinking of is the older models with "black paint", which is painted black right over the brass, instead of chrome finish first. so, that paint wears off much easier and that's where you see the brassing :)
No, I'm thinking of the exact model you're referring to. It can wear through the black chrome, down to the chrome, then down to the brass. I've seen a few photos of M4-P's online with this happening from use... but you're right in that it takes A LOT of HEAVY use because of the paint's durability.
That’s interesting. I have a very early serial 4-P and it shows sliver-grey.
“A nice brassing” as soon as a phrase like that pops in I’m out. Most people that desire “a nice brassing” will never use the camera enough to even remotely start “brassing”, they will more than likely “brass” themselves.
Just comparing it to the M6. The M4-P can brass, potentially, while the M6 being Zinc cannot. Doesn't matter in terms of functionality and whatnot but simply a difference in the materials.
although true in some cases, with this camera being one of the cheaper leica m models i think that not many of the people who would not use it would buy it, with one of the super early models or special editions going for tens of thousands of dollars, yea that camera is just gonna sit on a shelf and look pretty, this is for most people a workhorse of a camera not a decorative display.
@@PatrickStromme unfortunately even though it is brass, the paint is black-chrome paint, meaning the brass it painted over with chrome first then black paint, so if the black paint fades (if ever, cause these are much more durable than the black paint models) it'll just turn chrome.
What you're thinking of is the older models with "black paint", which is painted black right over the brass, instead of chrome finish first. so, that paint wears off much easier and that's where you see the brassing :)
if you buy an old, worn one it would already be patinated, and you'd be able to see the brassing... i don't see how that's necessarily a "collector" type issue. just facts
Built in light meter is highly recommended. Avoiding mistakes on expensive film.
I highly disagree. I shoot M2, M3, and M4-P and shoot without a light meter about 90% of the time. When you make mistakes without a light meter, you learn from them, which in turn then makes you a better photographer not having to rely on a light meter in split second moments. Its fine to use one when starting out but after a few months its better to ditch it, in my personal opinion.
Does it though? Reflective metering is pretty misleading sometimes.
You don’t need a light meter, it’s a crutch
100% agree.
How does a guy know whether or not it's the early version?
Your arguments are specious. Brassing is an indication of cheap paint, not a desirable feature, otherwise Leica would make them with no paint. I have a late model M4-P with a zinc top plate and black chrome finish, much more durable and lighter too. So, what are all of these "secrets"?
Sounds like someone who is trying to hype up their purchase because they didn’t have enough money for the other version lol
Haha. Not to be "that guy" but I've got an M2, M4-P, Plaubel Makina W67, Hasselblad500CM, Rollei, etc. I certainly could have invested in a M6 but sincerely dont think its worth that kind of money... Especially now! 4 years ago, sure! It was about $1200 but now it being about $1800-2k definitely not, in my book. Though now the M4-P's are going up... so who knows!?
I personally don't like the look for the M6 , I think the price has been inflated. It looks very tacky and 80s. The M2-M4 looks much nicer.
I completely agree that the M2, M4, M4-P, and even the M4-2 looks better than the M6.
The m5 is better than both
All Leicas are great cameras. If you need a meter go with an M5. M2 is my personal favorite though.
@@PatrickStromme I would actually disagree with that. After the m5, the build process at Leica changed from the fit-and-finish system to the more assembly line system of the M4-p, the M6, the M7, etc.
The M5 is really the only Leica with a meter you can get that was built in the classical style. The M6 isn't brass, the M4-p has plastic parts, etc. There's a reason a lot of collectors consider the M5 the "last of the great Leicas".
But the M2 is a great leica!
Don't need the annoying music!!!!
Updated for next video!
Can this guy be any slower?
Opinions are hard to accept for some people. haha
More photos. Less talking about cameras.
I’ve tried most film Leicas, and M6 is by far the worst...not as smooth, with viewfinder flare...and with the branding screaming ‘LEICA’...that being said the M4-P is even uglier ahah
I would still recommend the M3 / M2 / M4 to anyone who is ok working without a meter, or then the MP to people who do want meter and are ok paying a bit more.
I like the ugliness of the M4-P. Actually I just put a little electrical tape over everything and its quite beautiful. But yes, I love the simplicity and utilitarianism of the M2 to most, as well!
@@PatrickStromme ahah kinda like how you start finding beauty in Pugs, I get that : p That being said yes, M2 is just beautiful. Nothing gets close to 1950s Leica products, not even Leica itself.
You are aware, that it is a machine to take pictures? Nothing you mentioned influences the quality of pictures positively.
Clearly this video was made as a comparison between the M6 and M4-P in terms of ergonomics and aesthetics. In terms of Leica Ms in general, film M's, the subtleties are minuscule but I'm simply stating that the M6, imo, is not quite up to par with the previous M4-P. Why compare any M body or talk about them anyways if you're talking about actual picture quality? The picture quality comes from the lens, the photographer, and the moment. But obviously there are different bodies to choose from, so I'm just telling you my opinion about them. I never stated that either of them will produce anything different in terms of picture quality.
remove battery of leica m6