The Artistic De:Evolution of Baki
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- So in this vid, we cap off the artistic breakdown of Baki evolution series with Baki son of ogre and Baki Dou manga. Since Baki dou 2018 didn't have that many changes, aside from total devoid of shading (even more then Baki dou), I didn't see it reasonable to discus it. Also, I know about the newest baki series, I didn't cover that because it doesn't really have enough material to actually break it down. Maybe one day!
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He killed Retsu because he had to shade his skin so much.
He horded 90% of the mangas shading 💀
@@LeoArmada😂
💀🥲😭
😂
@@LeoArmadaremember kaiser exists
Dude mastered an art then decided not to use his best techniques.
He's your cliché shonen final boss that will only use 1 arm to show you the gap in power.
I expected nothing less from the creator of the Hanma Family.
Likely boils down to production schedules or something.
If you look at itagaki’s works like a doctorate research article on the art of drawing, where son of ogre focuses on shading, and baki dou on line work, itagaki is using the extremeity of a technique to show the actions of the characters, almost to the point of the absence of another technique: son of ogre extremity in shading with less focus on line work, and baki dou with an extremity in line work and less focus on shading. Its more like itagaki is experimenting each phase of baki on how much can he focus on a certain technique to the point where he can completely forsake another
Basically mirroring miyamoto musashi’s gimmick of forsaking the swords to create a mental cutting edge to replace real swords
I'm not really sure if I would agree that Baki Dou is more extreme in terms of line work, but it is noticeably different in terms of style. The characters are drawn with more "soft" lines for many of their features and the way Baki's face is drawn is a bit different. In terms of anatomy, the characters' calves, forearms, and wrists have grown massively in proportion to their legs and arms. Yujiro also has more of a bulkier look, whereas in Son of Ogre he had a super exaggerated V-taper physique.
@@thenew4559 Yujiro's just bulking bro, gonna cut later
I really appreciate a deep look into this man's career. The man has been a mangaka for decades and still has good paneling.
the chapters were coming out very slowly back then so I'm glad he toned the art down for better time management
Quality>quantity
@@tetsutetsu7206 yeah but the mangaka already has issues of slow chapters taking about 2-3 months for one chapter
@@tetsutetsu7206 there is a point where quantity trumps quality. There needs to be a balance of both.
@@tetsutetsu7206 Hunter x Hunter 💀💀
@@lanceshadow7335We dont even want quality anymore
We just want an ending 😭
i really like the new style, it reminds me of how street fighter characters are portrayed; big hands and feet help a lot conveying movement, impact and readability in fight scenes. I do agree about the shading though...ALSO very good point on the traditional japanese art, I always noticed that influence since the very first series and I'm glad someone finally addressed it.
Honestly Musashi has one of my favorite face desgins in anime as a whole. While its still in the style of baki it feels so out of place and other worldly that you understand Musashis presence as a legendary figure.
Also its funny
the way he goes from intimidating stone cold killer to wall-eyed spoof from panel to panel is my favorite thing about how he's drawn
Mine is hayanma who is a brutal and nice guy at the same time
It’s because he’s supposed to look like the drawings and paintings of him from the era he’s from
Musashi be like:
👁️_👁️
I've never seen an artistic "de-evolution" video before so this should be really interesting.
Funny enough, there was actually one mistake in Baki Dou 2018, where he completely forgot to draw in the beard of Motobe. I redrew that chapter for the Spinyback translation, and I added in his beard lmao. Not sure many people know that, but ye, Itagaki made one mistake lol
Edit: It was Chapter 122, page 11 where Motobe is talking to Gaia. He didn't have facial hair on the original raws for one panel, I redrew it there.
would be funny if you edited the panel on ms paint and just added some black colored tiny lines as motobe's beard
well to be fair itagaki could just play it off and say motobe shaved his facial hair idk
@@griefer5846 But then he would've had it back in the next pages, it was legitimately a goof on his end.
@@imjonathan6745 I redraw all of the pages on Clip Studio Paint and that's pretty much what I did lol
@@kreatyboy ah right
I think that the artstyle change also has something to do with Itagaki gertting older. Hes 65 now (57 at the start of baki Dou) and i think he gradually made those changes because the level of shading and detail he used on the Father Vs Son battle wasn't maintainable since it was very time consuming (Lets remember that baki is mostly a weekly/bi-weekly manga), also that was supposed to be the literal peak of the series, so he went ham on it. My opinion is that, even though the artstyle peaked during the Baki Vs Yujiro fight, the art still great.
now, i know all of that sounds like a downgrade from the father son fight. but if he did every panel like that, not only would he have to put more time and work in, but after a while, we would just get used to seeing gray panels. it's a good thing to have extra detail for highly intense moments, but i honestly think he needs a break after carving out all of those electric like lines during the baki-yujiro fight.
Honestly I ofc haven't spent nearly as much time as u analyzing this but my favorite part of Baki for the art is the Musashi arc. The way every single detail in his swordswings is depicted is simply amazing to me. And while yes Itagaki is very capable of drawing eyepleasing and detailed images his biggest strength is drawing the fluidity and dynamic of motion. In that he to this day is unrivalled imo.
I agree. People say that manga like Berserk and Vagabond have the very best manga artwork, and overall I would agree (I'd also put One Punch Man up there), but specifically in terms of Itagaki's ability to portray super-detailed human anatomy and motion, I think he cannot be topped.
I would also say usogui has some crazy art with a nice amount of fluidity as well
The man uses different styles according to each Arc , As A Flex , just to show you how many Art styles he masterd and it's also unique changing the styles of each book , the man is creating a legacy here
Man, you really missed the opportunity to talk about how THICC the characters became since Baki-dou. Like, they look way stubbier and rounder compared to New Grappler Baki and Son of Ogre. As for the relative disappearance of the extremely polished and rich shading, it is not a problem for Itagaki, he became crafty and experienced enough to use this new economy of detail to showcase an exemplary display of clarity in his pages.
Perhaps he is just saving it for when jack fights yujiro so we get the goat shading again.
bro itagaki have 66 years,just continue doind the manga is sick
Hirohiko Araki had an evolution, de-evolution, and then evolution again
Son of Orge Arc is the peak of Baki's characters as well as storytelling. Baki venting out all his love and hate for his father, all the skills and techniques and potential he has ever accumulated while still becoming his own person rather than be jaded and cruel like his father. We were shown the Yujiro - not just the Ogre, how he fell due to having everything from the start and became relatable to the viewer for the first time; Yujiro is also no longer the only strongest one so the serie can actually end here so I can see why Itagaki put in so much effort and emotional depth for the art of this Arc. Baki Dou art is still amazing but I can argue that Musashi's alien eyes are to show how much he is alienated from all the other characters in the serie due to him being a killer in war-torn Japan, not just a martial artist like the rest in modern society. Also shading can give much more emotional depth to the scene and I think Itagaki want to show that Musashi cut down people just like cutting anything else: clean with no emotion like a razer blade, just a question of can anything withstand being cut by him. Case in point in the first few chapters Musashi got resurrected he looked dignified, present, dark eyes represent the humanity, the martial artist and the philosopher side of him, his proportion was also very aesthetically pleasing too. The more he fights later on the more he look like a beast or a lion, thicker, less caring as he started to slash other fighters for real like with Hanayama in order to test his limits. By the end of Baki Dou Musashi was willing to kill all in open combat in order to gain infamy in the modern world and that is his answer for a world that kept trying to test him. Also this may conveys how war and killing dehumanize even the Myamoto Musashi the greatest swordman and bushido code into but a killing machine for survival, no honour, no art, no meaning. But then again Itagaki may just didn't feel like it I don't know :))
My glorious king has uploaded
One thing I love baki's artstyle is the simple fact that he draws noses on characters in detail instead of just a line or not incorporating it at all. The nose is one of the most important details of the face and I hate it when most artstyles completely ignore it.
Same, but I get why some dont draw it that well, since its a very tricky part to draw.
At the end, you mentioned how the biggest reason for not using shading is time consumption, and that is true, but also there is a certain clarity in shapes (not to be confused with form) and composition that benefit from the lack of proper (or at least, of multi-valued) shading, which I think is best seen in Kubo's and Kim Jung Gi's art. We read value before we read detail, and that's what makes overdetailed, overshadowed styles "muddy"
Imagine if we went to Yujiro vs Jack or Jack vs Baki only to see Son of Ogre shading artstyle again. That would be a 10/10
LMAOO imagine if Jack and Yujiro punch each other so hard, it changes the reality of Baki and brings back that style😭 Canon Event
Have you considered a video on how certain aesthetics do or don’t fit certain genres/stories (ex. Kenichi The Mightiest Disciple and High School DxD both show excessive fan service in an approachable art style yet one was praised for the same reason the other received complaints)
Thats.....actually a good idea....Wow. YOINK!!!!!
I'd say itagaki got discouraged amd stopped putting so much effort after he saw how Netflix straight up ignored he's art styles and level of detail.
All these changed happened long before the netflix series. I mean in the manga, the Pickle arc was published all the way back in 2008. This isn't even close to recent material they're adapting.
the anime came out like a decade or more later lol
All these artist evolution and de evolution videos. Have really made me notice that we need a museum for just manga art!
Itagaki just getting older
To me, this just screams "lack of time". Not just to draw, but to design and redraw.
alot of these skills he stooped using are still time consuming after mastering the, i dont blame him for doing less overstylisation.
why does the video end like that???
i actually love the new baki-dou like artstyle a lot.
Ik bro smt about the simplicity of it made me enjoy they sumo arc so much more
Jesus saves (read the Bible)
@@WeberDossantos not to be homo or anything, but looking at the definition of the muscles, movements, and fight scenes through the style of baki dou are just more masculine.
and they're more chunky and big lol
@@cheesist6998 real
This is an amazing video! Love your editing and chill vibes!
Baki has amazing art!
Im not sure if you are open to suggestions but please check out Hideo Yamamoto
the way water is shaded in homoculus is truly mind bogling and the expressions of character faces in ichi the killer are something else entirely.
Personally, I enjoyed reading through the series and the retake on Itagakis style through the years. I feel the post Musashi-dou style adds to the impacts of attacks and certain actions. The style becoming more "rounded" gives a more fluid or liquid look to everything. Imo
on the comparisons you gave, the reason those big impact frames are gone is because musashi was cutting with a sword, unlike baki and yujiro who were punching with fists, different kinds of impact are of course portrayed differently, of course the quality isnt on the level of the father son fight, but they have different purposes aswell, right?
Oh boy, great video, you really need to talk about Jojo's bizarre adventure. But I suggest you do it separately, since there are 2 universes and 2 very different artistic styles. Please, consider it.
Ill for sure make a vid on it, but I plan on breaking it down differently, Part 1 threw 4, part 5 threw 7. Reason that I prob wont include Part 8 is because Part 7 and 8 are similar, its just that part 8 Kinda suffers more from The Same Face Syndrome. Not exactly fully accurate, since i havented looked at it that much YET, but I bottom line, Ill at least do 2 videos on Jojos. First tho, its Berserk time.
@@LeoArmada Okay, great, still, you should give part 8 a try, although as you say, near the end there is Same Face Syndrome Araki makes some incredible drawings, there is even a part where you can see the muscles with the new art style and it looks impressive
I think the art will make a comeback as Baki Rahen goes on, you can kinda tell Itagaki is slowly moving away from the super thick and weirdly shaped heads of the Sumo arc style
You gotta make a video about the artistic evolution of berserk
I really love that Baki's appearance being so different so back then and it's feels kinda bit funny that the art is "de-evoluting" nowadays.
Basically just like the characters' fighting styles where they rally on using techniques or not.
It's always been my opinion that Keisuke Itagaki must have burnt himself out illustrating that father-son fight at the end of Son of Ogre. At that point he had already been putting out a weekly manga series for over 20 years with little break (while also doing Garouden as a side-project, I should add. To be able to put out such super-detailed art with such an intricate level of shading throughout the entire father-son fight, on a weekly basis, is not something I can fathom, as an artist myself. After he had finally finished that fight, it is super understandable for him to want to simplify the art style in a number of ways, to go easy on himself. He'd essentially accomplished the primary goal of his life's work, after all. Everything after the Yujiro fight is just Baki living his life, now that he's gotten over his issues with his dad. I'm pretty sure the series is now mainly just Itagaki doing whatever he wants for fun.
It should also be kept in mind that Itagaki was 57 years old at the time he started Baki Dou (2014) (he's 66 now). He's not only one of the longest running mangaka, but he started pretty late compared to most, and is now approaching old age. I'm pretty sure that throughout his last series, Baki Dou (2018), he took more frequent weekly breaks than during the previous parts.
What you´re calling shading is actually better referred to as Light composition. It is an art in and of itself to just be able to come up with the right lighting scenario, let alone actually executing proper light on form, and then to manipulate such lighting effects as to actually make a flowing or pleasing image is another aspect of it. It is just as difficult as mastering Anatomy, or line work.
i love all the Baki artstyles, even if some are better than others they succeed in some things really well
Grappler: i love the way itagaki draws the bodies, cartoony expressions, and Baki himself, makes him feel kinda lightweight and floaty in the fights
New Grappler: The shading is great, characters become more powerful in design, and the characters have this exaggerated, yet realistic design to them. proportions be wilding tho
Son of Ogre: it is like the perfect evolution of New Grappler. The way Itagaki draws strength is fantastic and for many people, me included, this is where the art is at its most impressive and spectacular
Dou 2014: For me, I think the character designs have been more or less finalized and at their best here. I love the way he draws Baki here, having the more cartoony facial elements like that of Grappler and the general design from the end of Son of Ogre, but also more or less improved, slightly bigger
Dou 2018: I feel like this is the worst artstyle, but even then I like how absolutely monstrous characters like Jack and Sukune look
I don't know if itagaki had that in mind but the absence of shading in the musashi arc just makes sense considering it's for musashi, a swordsman
It makes it easier to follow musashis sword strikes (and every other strike for that matter)
This part is just my opinion but the straight speedlines and the absence of shading fits musashi
Musashi is devoid of feelings and is a perfect swordsman
Amazing video and series I’m just discovering, subscribed.
Itagaki is just flexing at this point.
Miyamoto Musashi has a ungodly case of derp face.
TBH if would feel weird if he Didn't reset the shading after the father son fight. It was literally the most hype fight in manga history, and afterwards Baki and the rest of the cast feel a bit bored, so it would be kinda incongruent with the tone of the series to have the same kind of hyped shading in the proceeding fights.
You using '' killer'' on the background is so cool ❤❤
it's pretty obvious this is brought on by production schedules and ease of creation. You need it to come out within a certain amount of time. Yes, I think mangaka should have more breathing room but the underlying problem of "it needs to come out" is still there.
As someone who's worked as an artist and in production I don't really believe in the idea of absolute freedom when making art. Limitations do a lot more than limit what you can do. It provides a point of focus. If you spend too much time planning your dish, your ingredients will rot.
"You know how annoying cutting things out is"
*Cuts the video*
the use of PeterDraws video at 2:00 caught me off guard, but it's a great example.
Itagaki drew musashi how they drew him back when he was alive thats why he looks kinda like a guppy and not like a baki character or real person
I love Musashi's design, it makes him so weirdly scary, which fits his role in the arc perfectly.
Now if only he would learn what humans look like.
great video
next you have to make a video about the artistic evolusion of blue lock
It's still better than a stuff I draw.
It’s still just an evolution, not like he rewinded his style, he’s just gotten more efficient and his priorities have changed, the dynamic art is still as good as ever
I think it still looks good both ways- different styles for different tastes and different feels. I like them both differently!
You cut off the video ending bro ?
I went on a ramble about Baki Rahen (very pointless stuff) so I just ended it before things got spoiled.
To me, peak art style is at the end of Baki Son Of Ogre.
De:Evolution sounds like a rock band name from the 200s
Not a "De:Evolution", just a change.
Baki art probably peaked around the Musashi arc, but its always been good. Rahen is looking great so far.
The way Itagaki draws characters like Oliva and Jack has honestly never looked better than it does right now.
The anatomy is the most "I studied Burne Hogarth" I've ever seen. I don't know if he did study Hogarth, but I find it hard to believe it isn't.
Edit: rephrased for clarity
That thumbnail made me think Baki had a Light Novel
somethin about baki-dou art style is so appealing to me. the subtle shading with white space, and extreme sharp linework look so cool to me. Baki is so underrated as a series lol
Till to this day, I still don't know how this mf itagaki was able to draw Golden age Level light Energy.
This is worth my sub
I feel like I see someone saying this every single time I go to r/GrapplerBaki, and it being in video format this time doesn't make it any less tired.
Sometimes I feel jealous of Kengan fans. You peek in on their conversations and it's just admiration for the series, the author, theory crafting, themes discussion.
We get a bunch of knuckle draggers complaining about everything and arguing over weather or not Yujiro is gay.
I don't mind too much honestly, especially considering how for most part the anime did him dirty
Haa! Cutting out on image software maybe annoying but it's NOTHING compared to doing it traditionally by hand. Remember, a lot of these legendary mangaka still work by hand.
grew old and tried less, plus the peak of baki was always going to be baki vs yuujiro, so of course he was gonna go extra hard.
Shading manga is a pain. Shading muscle manga is extreme pain.
Truuuuuuu
i really dont like the new style in the sumo ark and rahen, Everyone became a meat ballwith an almond shaped head, the same fuckin eyes and fingers similar to sausages. Fuck when they showed kosho i did not recognize him until the end of the issue
I did slightly look threw that manga and I can agree. Im not a big fan of that style either. I kinda wish it can go back to Son Of Ogre or at least New Grappler.
@@LeoArmada itagaki always change his artstyle everytime the arc has changed. Idk why but I think he changed it to test his art drawing and make it different than the other to entertain us. I think the new artstyle is good
@@andidaffa9606 After son of ogre ended, it seems like he just does whatever he wants with 0 fucks given, both art and story wise.
@@sincorddnb9155 Man's slowly pushing 70 and got nothing left to prove, after all.
He DID try to make Kosho leaner than his other characters though.
Jojo is an interesting case of art evolution
And for shading while Baki does it well I think Berserk does it best. Not only using the black and white to create stunning images but also using it as a way to tell the story which imo is the reason for Berserk loosing something when transfered to a colored medium.
Now that you mention it (Plus me just finishing a thumbnail for a Berserk art evo vid) I have to say Berserk might be on top, or at the very least, Equal to baki. I think technicallity wise, Berserk does it better then baki, but both are hording the whole manga industries supply of shaders and ink kewkkk.
@@LeoArmada For real.
But man I know Itagaki is very successful but people sleep on the art of Baki. Like I here anyone ever talk about it, while for me its Berserk, Vagabond and Baki that stand on top when it comes to the art. Rly appriciate u talking about it so people get to see what they have been missing out on.
@@LeoArmada Also if u do like Berserk pls consider doing a vid on Vagabond in the future. Its criminal how few people talk about it.
@@LeoArmada Oh and sorry for spamming but I rly love how Miura used the shading to tell a story.
Like u will always have Guts cloacked in Shadow cause thats how the world sees him while Griffith is completely white but therefore also empty and stainless or perfect just how he wants the world to see him.
Honestly could probably make a whole vid just on that.
Have you seen the LATEST manga chapters or the Sumo arc the artsyle there is goldy can you nmake a video about it
Itagaki was in his bag for Baki vs yujiro
baki dou 1 art is okay, there's massive downfall in dou 2
Dou 2 is musashi arc yes?
@@jgrAnimations23 No, Baki Dou (2014) is the Musashi arc then the Baki dou (2018) is the Sumo Arc
@@jgrAnimations23 sumo arc, you can see clearly what have changed between dou 1(musashi) and dou 2(sumo), its like entirely different manga
@@bigdong777 they all became more rounded, thicker lips, and puppy dog eyes
W video
Is it just me because the video ended abruptly at 8 min 24 sec in the middle of a sentence.
So I’m trying to figure what happened to the rest of it.
N till this day we still dont have the manga physically in the states smh🤷♂️
he should use filter on his manga and draw over it
It's obvious that the Baki vs Yujiro fight has the best art in the series (i would say along with the end of the baki grappler) but I love Baki dou's art, forearms and wrists look thick, feet are amazingly drawn to the point where it actually makes a diference, fists look solid and the anatomy looks (maybe) more normal as calves and forearms aren't as long. Still, Jack looks like shit on Baki dou 2018 and Baki rahen and Sukune has some looks awful on some panels
never watched any baki whatsoever, but my number 1 question is, why is it as long as it? doesn't seem like the deepest series, but what do i know
I have no damn idea tbh, up to Yujiro Vs Baki, it kinda made sense, granted we had the Pickle arc which was insane, like, just mental insititution type insane, but it was a leadup to the big fight, after that they just cloned people from hundreds of years ago, idk why the mangaka didnt just give side characters like Jack more story instead of inserting new characters.
Baki started making more noney which means people want tg3 chapters out faster. Lower the time/quality to push out more
Have u done a rosario vampire video bestie
Tbh baki art give me nightmares, i mean they face
Some of these guys look scarier then most horror movie villains tbh
tbh i liked the art style more at the start, but not saying that i didnt love the art style at son of the ogre
You should definitely do the video about artistic de-evolution of One-Punch Man. Its just unbearable to watch at at this point
Thats why Baki is PEAK, Itagaki is a fking beast, shit like this makes me want to drop Chainsaw Man ugly ass bland looking manga, no detail and no depth.. feels empty af, but the story is what keeps me going back, in case of Baki and Kengan, its the art alone cause the story of those 2 have become boring and predictable smh...
you need to do a video on berserk
So if you dont draw realistically your drawings are bad?
will boruto get a vid
I would say the one piece manga definitely de evolved too. There is way less detail than what it had before, and all the drawing look like messy ink.
scattering? you mean stippling
does de: evolution for baki but not jjk lol
honestly I would appreciate you NOT to make the art's spining in all 3d angles, it's genuinly distracting and it makes us hard to analyse the details of the art that you point out for honestly no benefit
Do Hajime no ippo art!!!
too much work per chapter just makes sense
Dam I agree
leo armada ? brasileiro ou latino ?
Nahh, Armada just sounded cool lmaooo
I don’t think it’s de evolution in the slightest. It’s a different style. He goes from in-depth dark drawing using the main color as black or grey and more or less using white as the color instead of black on white paper. To a normal style compared to other artists. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. Think of it as comparable, to the interviews with dragon ball and gokus hair. It’s said ssj was white/gold so he could take it easy on the shader. In the darker aspect art you can’t have someone shade it by it’s definition it self the artist has to draw in all the shading. It’s simply not sustainable to do the rest of Baki in that style. It’s like burning a candle on both ends. On top of this the author was getting into his late 60s compared to the start of the manga where he was In his mid 50s. It’s like arguing gala apples are better oranges in the comparison of tasting like an apple.
It’s like jojo
You mean "simplification"