I honestly think some of the most interesting conversations are taking place right here. I am regularly watching right response and Jon Harris and always walk away more informed and tuned into the turning of the cultural tide.
Thank you, gentlemen. This was a humbly and transparently stated position. May this become characteristic of both sides. Deus Vult. I'm looking forward the next Right Response Conference.
I’m in the middle of listening to the private zoom meeting conversation… they absolutely repeatedly tried to pressure pastor Webbon to discipline his church member or to step down as pastor directly... While I don’t agree with everything the church member said, this whole post war consensus thing is getting WAY too emotional. As a passive bystander of this, I would really like to see these people sit down and have an intelligent honest conversation using reason and evidence on this topic without calling one another “not a friend anymore” and “not a brother”. This is so dumb and if I was in Joel’s position I’d shut the door on all of these accusers because of how bad faith they are representing not only him but also his church member and all of us that have questions!
@@asherfong6906 I find it absolutely wild that merely having (valid, imo) questions about an historical event would be cause to discipline, excommunicate or ask one to step down from their position. Can you imagine being excommunicated or disciplined for stating “I’m not so sure Alexander the Great actually existed”. People might thing you’re a bit strange, maybe uneducated or misinformed, but kicked out of the church?! This is insane.
@ it really is just a crazy situation in totality. I think Joel actually was accurate with some people not being able to think categorically. I just finished James White’s most recent rant posted an hour ago and the conclusion that I came to is that these older gentlemen are not capable of navigating nor understanding the elements of the current social media age. Twitter is legitimately making these older reformed leaders lose their minds because they are being trolled by anonymous accounts and then blaming Joel for being responsible. And yes, I think that us young men have a proclivity to saying bombastic things in the least graceful manner at this current moment in history but the opposing side is making these topics issues of salvation while at the same time saying that they aren’t doing such things. It looks like they are just plain lying to us at times. It is irrational and they are taking the bait and creating a coalition against a straw man… these figures need to delete twitter and talk to their Christian brothers in real life and hash out their positions on the matter. And you are right… the area of focus needs to be on if traditional historical accounts can be challenged without excommunication. It seems they are claiming young reformed men are actually widely accepting Jew hatred based on genetics. I see literally no evidence of that except for apparently anon accounts. I do see evidence of criticism of Jewish culture and religion… and even some evidence of positions that haven’t been thought out completely but instead of ideas being refined with proper Christian reasoning, men are now widely being called apostate. Despicable. It’s automatically assuming that people questioning narratives have preset hatred that they are simply trying to justify. All because of anonymous accounts… what foolish times we are in.
@@genuineimitation8799 Or if you denied the Armenian Genocide. Or better yet, DENYING THE RESURRECTION. It's so crazy how Wilson, White, Durbin will GLADLY debate people like Hitchens, or that gay pastor who said Jesus sinned and affirms homosexuality, but questioning or denial of of a SPECIFIC historical (maybe) event is where they draw the line.
1:11:00 Gotta add, I'm a missionary in Japan. I preach yearly in Nepal and sometimes in China. Let me be clear: I love my Nepali and Chinese brethren. However, we think very very differently. 70% of our conversations are consumed with simply understanding each other. THEN, we can move on to Gospel matters. Are we brothers? Yes and amen! Are we also members of different nations? Also yes and amen. Do I identify with my American Christian or Nepali Christian brothers? Easily my American Christian family. And I'm not ashamed of that.
What area? I am a missionary in a rural town in Kyushu. I am interested to hear the thoughts of a reformed missionary because so far I have only met one or two
A few things... I am CREC and I love and appreciate Pastor Doug but I have been troubled by his tendency toward Zionism. The cultural soup seems to affect solid reformed folks as well as dispensationalists to some degree. I would assert that even in the middle east Zionism is at least as hostile to Christianity as is Islam including persecution up to and including the bombing of churches. Palestinians and Lebanese are being indiscriminately slaughtered with no consideration of religious affiliation. You are right that definitions are critical we must be able to distinguish between Zionism, Modern Judaism, and genetic heritage. We must also distinguish between hatred and opposition. They are not the same thing. As to how we conduct our disputes it is important that it not only be done discretely but with charity and without deception.
@@JosephsCoat I know his family is Jewish so it's somewhat understandable. I still think he's wrong, and oddly supremacist in his view of those High Performance People.
@@Cinnamonbuns13 He said on a blog he did a DNA test and it came back 2% Jwish for him. Also said his wife is 26% Jwish. Her father much more (I forget the %). And of course either his son in law or daughter in law being married to a Jwish person. Not sure any of that is the sole reason for what he's doing currently, but always a possibility.
I will release a "Declaration", it'll be called "The Talmud Declaration, and it'll be much shorter: I am a Christian and I condemn Talmudic teachings". Doug Wilson and James White should certainly be ok with signing that, no?
Since White and Wilson are talking about hate of the Jewish people aka the they aka noticing not the actual Jewish religion and have said the same about the talmud I bet they would
I’m not clear at this point what Doug Wilson, James White et al can or should contribute when they are unrepentantly hostile towards good Christian brothers and seem to want Judeo-Christian Nationalism
It's so weird coming from them. For me, at least. I've followed them both for years. Not too closely, but I've listened to a lot of The Dividing Line and love Doug's blog reads and listened to a few of his books. This seems so uncharacteristic. I must have missed something over the years...
Judeo-Christian isn’t a thing. Judaism teaches Jesus is in Hell boiling in excrement and his mother was a whore and all the carpenters in Israel had sex with her. Christianity teaches Jesus is the promised messiah of Israel, God in the flesh, his mother was a virgin. These are two irreconcilable perspectives. There can be no peace between these two world views. The Christian’s duty is twofold: First boldly preach the Gospel to them no matter how loudly they scream “Antisemitism” while you do it. Those Jews who are Elect will repent and enter the Kingdom. The second duty is to oppose Jewish cultural values (Marxism, usury, LGBT+ degeneracy, antiwhitism, etc) with Christian cultural values.
@@jpherrera2622 Doug Wilson has said in an article titled “Devoured by Cannabis,” “Is it a sin to smoke pot? I argue in this book that it is, and that Christians should have nothing to do with it. But if it is a sin, should it also be a crime? There are plenty of sins that shouldn’t be crimes out there, activities that are clearly sinful, but we don’t want legislation against them with civil penalties applied. Covetousness is a sin, but who wants to establish the covetousness police?” So he clearly says that it’s a sin in his view, it just shouldn’t be criminalized. I agree with him. There is no biblical evidence that one should be punished by the government for smoking pot.
@@trentcurtis7925 he might have changed his view recently, I read his book before my 1st son was born and the book was not terrible until the pot part.
Following both Ezra and Dividing Line and Moscow and you and Jon Harris and others in this and I'm left feeling like I agree with the other guys that there's a growing concern in the fringes but not to the degree that I think this declaration was necessary. Will always appreciate your ministry along with the others. Not gonna take sides, so sad to see brothers fighting.
Interesting that in the rush to exonerate “them” (I can’t say the word or my comment will disappear) from any and all wrongdoing, they literally let “them” divide the church. The irony is entirely lost on everyone involved. Perhaps there actually IS a problem, but, to state so would be, unequivocally, “anti-Semitic”.
Edgelords are the ones dividing the Church, but less than they aspire to divide it. Tempest in a tiki torch, I'd say. (Jews, Jews, Jews) Most of us would not know the name, Joel Webbon if not for frequent talk about those people who supposedly no one is ever allowed to talk about. (Jews, Jews, Jews) If controversy fatigue sets in, the clicks will dry up. (Jews, Jews, Jews) Is my comment still here?
The remarkable thing about James White and his comments about race and nationality versus spiritual union is that the scriptures themselves refute him on this point. Love of Nation and people is not in conflict with love of God if they are in the proper order and hierarchy and categories of good. The same God that said that there is no distinction now between Jew or gentile slave or free and that you must give up everything and take up your cross and follow Christ, also said honor thy father and mother and said that if you do not care for aging parents, you're worse than an unbeliever. James allows his americanism and classical liberalism and a commitment to the separation of church and state to supersede traditional biblical categories and thinking. The question for James white and other people like him is, did God make any mistakes when he created the different races? Did Christ create a kingdom or not? Did God bless the Civil Rights Act with the charism of infallibility?
All good points EXCEPT ... God made people groups / ethnicities. We are all one race ... Adam's Race. The sooner the church gets Biblical about race, the sooner racism will be a non-issue.
@@TheNet1347 That’s not scientifically accurate though. There are different races. And that’s ok. Denial will eventually only reveal you to be a fool. God gave us science to understand the natural world and ourselves. To say science is wrong is one thing, it often is. But to deny it because it doesn’t suit your modern sensibilities is foolish. The only reason you think race is a 4-letter word is because the modern world has told you it is. I have zero problem with it. God made it all, and everything He made is good. Saying otherwise is to call Gods creation evil. What a clever trick of the devil.
The Stone Choir guys and their camp seem somewhat deranged on this particular topic, but Doug and his camp are equally deranged, just in a different way. What makes sense and is Biblical is this "camp" right here. This is important because we have to be based in actual objective truth and reality if we are to win. Now if we Christians in "this camp" can only stop spending so much of our limited time, effort and focus on endlessly arguing within our own little Christian circles, and shift that focus to actually taking dominion and winning, we can really make a huge impact. Godspeed Joel. I pray that you will be a leader in this focus shift.
The issue is theonomist not theonomy. Peoples behavior doesnt change solid exegesis It blows my mind. Redeemed Zoomer is a christian brother we would have some social and theological disagreements with and is well to our left but even he is a presby of Jewish descent and is not as pro judeo-christian as these guys Also sorry about my comment in regards to you and stone choir. I heard you already made good comments to your congregation about them and my comment was presumptuous and uninformed.
Keep it up, y'all! Yes, I love, and will continue to support Pr. Wilson and FLF, but I absolutely agree that all involved with the drafting of this Antioch Declaration (AD) should have waited until some form of resolution was achieved between you, Joel, and Pr. Riemenschneider. I'm going to continue to pray to that end. The declaration that Pr. Spurgeon read over at Jon's show is vastly superior to the AD; and that's by his own admission a rough draft! I may be demographically a Boomer, but as a paleo-con, I'm neither a Zionist nor believer in the PWC. Frankly, as much as I genuinely enjoy and learn from Doug's writing, sometimes I believe, as our British cousins say, the style is just a bit "too clever by half!"
What God separates, let no man bring together. Gen 11 list some of those things that divide. God pushed continents aside and separated peoples because of of evil or because God saw that what He was doing was good.
I find this so interesting... I read the Antioch Declaration, and realized very early on that I could never, in good conscience, sign it. Then I looked at the names of those who were involved in its crafting and the names of those who have signed, and I felt a bit of cognitive dissonance. I am not 'reformed' in my theology, but I saw the names of men whom I love like Jeff Durbin, Doug Wilson, Ken Gentry, (and others) and found myself wondering where my internal friction is coming from.
This whole saga has been extremely disappointing. I knew about these things before I came to Christ, and it was very obvious the world had no home for young white men who seek truth and have strong principles. Then I came to Christ, I learned so much from these men. And yet, despite now sitting in the truth amongst others who supposedly also sit in the truth, I once again see there is no home for me. And this is solely the responsibility of pastors, not of those who have been bringing attention to these topics. They want young men in a box created by our enemies, and work on behalf of our enemies in the name of the Gospel. It is monstrous. There will be no future for the Church in the west as a result of the most zealous and strong men being pushed out or rejected at the door. Judgment is at the gates. Even the pagans know better.
Same. I was regenerated in 2022. Before hand I was in all the 4chan, reddit subs, fb groups, chats and UA-cam holes of that website "a call for an uprising" since at least 2016 I've been around all the conspiracy of j-wish collusion with illuminati stuff, WW2 banking interference, Epstein, royal family stuff, globalism, pizzagate, roots of free masonry. I don't hate them, but I also am willing to acknowledge that if a people perceive they are still the chosen people of God they will do what they can to remain in power. Most of this stuff is still true even though I'm a Calvinist. I just now have the wisdom to say ya I mean they are in rebellion, unregenerate, and I don't hate them for it. But the memes are also sometimes funny. Doesn't make me a neo-nazi. When I see Doug, Boot, and white say certain things I wanna bang my head on a wall. Also most of the red eye blue laser X anons aren't Christians, so making a Declaration against them is also moot because they don't agree with the foundational principals of God's laws, word, or the Gospel. The declaration is like giving a calculus test to a 3 year old. But the declaration itself reads like it was written by a third grade child after a catechism class.
Doug Wilson, James White, Tobias and their ilk need to be reminded of this verse below. They seem to be causing dissensions and are stumbling from the true doctrine, causing others that follow them to do the same. "Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and stumblings contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them." - Roman's 16:17.
The Right Wing Watch is a Far Left organization that specifically targets people who they deem as "far right" and go after them through means like doxxing, hit pieces in the news, smear campaigns, and finding ways to financially target their prey etc.
It’s a website dedicated to showing people how evil those on the right are by clipping their content and spreading it, mostly out of context. Thankfully, it’s a measure of success that Joel and RR have been on there and it helps spread their content.
After the recent Tobias video explaining the situation from his side, I now clearly see the problems on BOTH sides. I now feel even more disillusioned and depressed about the state of western Christianity and reformed movement as a whole and will go into seclusion to find some peace before the Lord Jesus Christ finally returns and set all the things in order and reveal all that was done in secret. I've seen some christian infighting, brotherly accusations, unconfessed pride, slander, lies and backstabbing such I've not seen even in the world. And I'm tired boss, I'm tired... Come, Lord Jesus, take me home
The Lord God give you strength and clarity convenient for your day. Be not ultimately comforted by the strength of men. Understand, also, what is men being sinful, and what is simply a hard word to hear. Christ our King give us all peace.
Jon Harris? The guy who looks like he just woke up crying in every video? The guy who whines in his videos every day that it's unfair that the history of antebellum South is viewed negatively? Jon Harris needs a lot of correction his daddy apparently never gave him.
IMO opinion McDurmon changed after researching & writing his excellent book "The Problem of Slavery in Christian America." He delineates the downward spiral of US slavery laws to the point where slaves status became no better than a farm animal. I think he was shocked how Xtians defended this institution.
Great great episode....keep it up guys! Yes it absolutely should have been kept internal. But no, they have some deep resentment toward y'all for some reason
@@K81620 it’s no mystery. He (Joel) dared speak of the unspeakable. Sort of proving his point. Kind of like how “they” say it’s a conspiracy theory to say “they” control media, finance and politics, then use those same institutions to destroy anyone who publicly points this out. The brainwashing is DEEP.
Thanks for sharing such valuable information! Just a quick off-topic question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
At 18:42, who was saying the sojourner should be treated the same as a citizen? They should get equality under the law, but they are not part of Israel unless they showed they know Yahweh and want to live under covenant with Him. Ruth gave up her family and gods to worship Naomi's God. Theonomy does not permit wide open borders when the whole counsel of the Law is understood.
Saying you are part of the more "masculine" side of the Reformed Church is .....cringe. A strong person does not ever have to announce their strength not even once, let alone over and over.
If Tobias and his co-pastor didn't like the way you discipline or not discipline your new parishioner, then they should've swallowed their pride and move on. Whoever made this thing public is here to blame and should immediately apologize! They were pressuring you in that zoom meeting and then Tobias even talked about your "coldness"? You were clearly patient with them both. He even said that coalition of pastors will form against you. If that's not pressuring and even threatening, I don't know what is. This is another clear case of abusive pastors who see themselves as center of the universe. But pride goeth before destruction!
It is sad that the people of my two favourite channels are at odds (RRM and Apologia). There were differences and friendly disagreements since I started watching, which is good, forces me to think and draw my own conclusions. But as long as it stays friendly and brotherly. And weirdly it seems like the friction started when a pastor of a church only a few hours away from me came into the picture... I hope it all resolves soon.
Tobias accusing you of recording the zoom call without his permission and also that you wouldn't share it because he couldn't remember what he said so he can apologize? Definitely, on your side with the topics. He just won't see where he is wrong because he is so blinded by the "antisemitism" he has to stand up for, possibly thats the issue?
@@mbeast1098 my member recorded the call. I didn’t know till afterwards. I wouldn’t share it with Tobias initially because my member asked me not to. He didn’t trust Tobias. I changed my mind within a few days, but by then Tobias already had it. He’s had it for almost a month.
@RightResponseMinistries thanks for the response. Like I said I am with you. Just hope to see this be reconciled. I'll keep praying for you and your sweet family!
My take, a random guy on UA-cam for what it's worth I agree wiith Joseph Spurgeon statement "I deny that natural affection for one's own people is equivalent to hatred or indifference toward others. A man who loves his family does not despise his neighbor's but simply loves his own more." I think this principle highlights a fundamental issue that seems particularly pronounced among white people. There appears to be a conflict within white Americans-perhaps even among white British people, though less so in other parts of Europe-regarding the acknowledgment of natural affection for those of the same ethnic background. Most non-white people seem to have little trouble openly recognizing and valuing natural affection for their ethnic groups in the west. However, due to America's history and the challenges of integrating various ethnic groups, many white Americans appear hesitant to acknowledge anything related to their Western, white cultural heritage as inherently good. This internal tension can lead to two extremes: some may lash out and gravitate toward ideologies like Nazism or genuine racism, while others simply feel discomfort or confusion about expressing these natural affections and they just deny this part of them which will probably produce more woke ideology or genuine racism. In my opinion, this is partly because white people are still the majority in America and are often perceived as the "default" image of an American. While this isn't inherently problematic, it does mean that when non-white individuals find themselves in predominantly white environments, their distinctiveness can stand out more sharply, often fostering a natural sense of affection or kinship within their ethnic groups. This contrasts with countries like China or India, where the default population is homogeneous, and such distinctions carry less weight. People, often find a sense of kinship when meeting someone from the same town, city, or school-shared experiences that foster connection. However, in a nation of 340 million people, with 70% being white, the broader kinship of simply being "white" or of European descent holds less perceived significance, particularly in the context of the West. It may feel more meaningful outside of Western nations, where such shared backgrounds are less common. Another issue is that skin tone and phenotypic variation-i.e., "race"-is a proxy term used to describe different human groups with distinct historical starting points in recent history. There are nations today that have emerged through the mixing of multiple ethnic groups, the extinction of some, and other historical processes. Yet, they are all human. Therefore, worrying about protecting one's ethnic background through reproduction is foolish, untenable, and unbiblical. Caring about your people group and desiring immigrants to adopt your cultural uniqueness makes sense because that's how a nation preserves its identity. However, racial differences are merely a proxy for deeper issues that often go unaddressed. Many focus solely on visible differences, as if they carry significant meaning, when they don't. History shows us the dangers of overvaluing such differences, as seen in ideologies like Nazism and the institution of chattel slavery. I think young white people who rightfully reject Marxism and woke ideology who don't get back to a traditional and biblical perspective but go completely other into Nazism or similar ideologies, to to me there like some young Black people who reject Western ideals and fall into African cultist beliefs or into the Nation of Islam in the 60s. Years ago I've seen some white people online who not only got into Nazism but also rejected Christianity and got into Norse paganism. It’s embarrassing because their interest often stems from the fact that it’s different and oppositional to the issues in the West. In the 1960s, alot of white people rejected the West by diving into Eastern religions and philosophies and now currently the new age stuff, so I don’t see much of a difference in the reaction-though, of course, some paths are obviously more dangerous than others. Ultimately, I do believe we can disagree with historical positions, but the dividing line is on actual racism first and foremost. If a Christian does not believe that there is only one human nature shared equally and intrinsically from Adam to every other human being-the same human nature that Christ himself had and redeemed-then you're outside the Christian faith biblically and historically. If this is agreed upon, then we're merely discussing other degrees or lines of thought or belief are that cross into genuine racism because of the contradiction of the accepted Christian position above. But if we can at least hold this line, we can discuss differences in perspective. I also agree with Joel when he said in some podcast-I'm paraphrasing: "Christians are often willing to tolerate those a mile to their left, showing love and compassion, but we rarely extend the same tolerance to someone just an inch to our right." This is true, and I've seen it in my circles as well. But as much as we critique too much tolerance and compassion toward the left, we need to be precise about how far we're willing to stretch this to the right. If we are unbalanced, we could end up being too tolerant and compassionate toward sinful ideas on the right as some Christians do to sinful ideas to the left. Additionally, we should be aware of bad actors not just on the left but also on the right who would use this conflict to promote genuine anti-Christian beliefs and genuinely racist views. As much as we like to fight the left, we can become unbalanced and go too far to the right. In other words, we could fight for biblical views but become unbalanced and fall into unbiblical views to protect biblical ones. For example, when the Pharisees added more rules and regulations to protect the laws of Moses, they went too far. Though it was a good thing they were trying to do, they ended up becoming the enemy of Christ. I personally believe this reaction and controversy and certain people falling into sinful positions ultimately is a response to the unbiblical and sinful positions of the woke Marxist left. However, it is foolish if we end up using their own tactics and also adopting certain categories they hold when it comes to racial differences or treating groups differently because of historical events. For example, the reason why a lot of people on the left feel free to say they are against whites or ask a seemingly genuine question like, "Can whites be saved?" is because they have categorized individual white people-or the group as a whole-as inherently linked to the historical sins of their forefathers, and if we start doing this on the right not only is it irrational and unbiblical it is hypocritical.
I cannot agree with all of your phrasing, but I appreciate your genuine and thorough contribution and wanted to commend you. Peace and grace to you, brother in Christ! May we all be corrected by our Lord until the day of His coming.
@@isaakdanielstrandgoodmanson I appreciate your comment. Yes, peace and grace to you was well brother in Christ! May we all be corrected by our Lord until the day of His coming, and worship him in unity in glory.
Trigger warning: Secular historians are still debating the Holocaust. As a Christian, you also have the right to question narratives. This is hardly new: One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic ‘The Destruction of the European Jews.’
The notion that these events are nothing more than the expression of a petty infight among brothers and that these mattes were deserving of settlement in private, fails to capture the reality and significance of what's actually transpiring. As unpleasant as this is for all parties who find themselves at the tip of the spear in this debate, the issues at hand go much deeper than the players giving them expression. No, God saw fit to make this go public. To expose those who currently occupy the stations of authority in their error. This isn't a mere squabble, a notion that connotates a morale relativism between the sides. It's one side giving an expression to truths that run against the grain of popular consensus; an ideology that's transpired to have landed us precisely where we find ourselves in the state of our nation and in evangelicalism; an expression that runs against the institutions comprised of weak leaders who have followed the path of least resistance in the comforts they enjoy, knowing the ideologically bound mobs have their back, who can be called upon and used at their disposal, siccing them against all those who dare buck. The Antioch Declaration will find its mark in history as a watershed moment, not for its brave truths or its cleaver wordsmith articulation, not for its holding the line in said ideological consensus, but in its exposure.
The same people that correctly identified the tactics of the woke mob during COVID are now employing them against Joel Webbon and Right Response. The Antioch Statement is the black square instagram background and you are expected to post it even if you have quibbles with the burning of cities or with the particulars of the movement.
....and you took the bait of the Left. There is a way to be right about some things yet still ultimately be wrong....by taking the bait. Like you have.
Joel Webbon, you have supporters in this very comment section attempting to associate you positively with Stone Chior. I dont know if they are feds or not.
I love the Lord and hold true and affirm the 1689, as I believe it is the best interpretation and most accurate exposition of the scriptures. Do not let them fool you, this does not encompass the entire reformed church. This has everything to with post mils, theonomists, preterist, and christian natuonalists. When your eschatology tells you that either Christ returned in 70 AD and that the kingdom is here, or that the church will usher in the kingdom. And see the world the way it is (which is what the bible said it would be) and that this does not match the kingdom in the bible at all... you get this madness. This is not a reformed issue, its an issue amongst post mils and preterist.
Everyone "reformed" besides false dispensationalism are partial preterist. Full preterism is a meme and not really a real or serious thing. Reformed Christendom is a tiny minority of Christianity, and full preterism is even more miniscule.
1:52:06 Additionally, as I understand it, the Jews are unique in that those that will be converted will be through their jealousy of the true church and Gods favor on them which is not possible for any other religion. This is because no other religion can claim covenant with god through Abraham like the Jews can (though they misunderstand it to be physical in nature). You can see microcosms of this effect in acts everywhere where the gospel begins to take root. The Jewish leaders are provoked to jealously as they see God work powerfully in the church (and not in their synagogue) and they initiate persecution against the church as a result.
On the Bonhoeffer movie: surely everyone who wants to see it will have seen it by the time you get around to it. Don't bother subjecting yourselves to the propagandist boredom. Also: I haven't heard anything about Gladiator 2 yet one way or the other, but I assumed it would just be a lazy cash-grab. Surprised to hear y'all enjoyed it!
Haven’t heard anything but positives about Bonhoeffer before, except for Christians being ashamed that he would join plots to assassinate Hitler. Does Right Response or someone else have a video I could go to for a breakdown of this?
What's the Bonhoeffer thing? I still isn't understand the churchill references. I've heard Jon Harris mention it and then Andrew Isker but never saw an explanation of events
Joel Webbon, if you really arent a secret Stone Chior fan and you really dont hate Jews all you have to do is admit you didnt realize how huge the neo nazi movement is. That is the crux of you and Tobias talking past eachother. He sees your congragent as a part of a much bigger problem. He is close to him too. You see Tobias as an outsider busybody dismissing his cloesness to Benjimin. You also I suspect underestimated the actual Nazi's in the chat as it were. On Tobias part, being from Germany where its illegal to deny the Holocast he failed to understand that Americans can risk talking more brasinly about their feelings and questions, but then again, your congragent Benjimin should have known that German difference. He sent the meme to Germany phones. That was foolish.
I’m not a Christian Nationalist, but it seems like you guys are being logical and following Scripture and the evidence where it leads while trying to dispossess your opinions from the emotionalism of the topics. I’d argue that the free Masonic religion, and the occultism/mysticism that comes with it is a greater threat to the Church in America than Judaism. Especially since many of the people you guys revere (like Washington) were high-ranking masons (check out Washington kissing the Bible at his inauguration) Would like to see your take on freemasonry and defending the various founding fathers who participated in this false religion
@@MiltonTheWiseAre you serious? That’s your retort to someone wanting to see a film about an historical figure? What does that have to do with homosexuality?
I saw it and it wasn't that great. It wasn't historical enough, it didn't mention his heretical "faith" (ofc), and it didn't go in any depth abt why he decided to ass*ssinate Hitler.
I started watching and even subscribed because of the videos about cool subject where he discusses them with his friends, but I’ve recently unsubscribed bc this guy is so self-righteous and I’m sick of hearing him talk. He’s impressed himself enough to let us all off the hook.
@@MiltonTheWise he thinks women shouldn't vote. He thinks he should dictate which books his wife does or doesn't read. He's a theonomist. Pretty self-righteous if you ask me.
I’m glad to finally hear from you on this. White and Wilson have beclowned themselves with this hasty declaration. There is nothing wrong with being antisemitic.
I agree. Unlike Doug Wilson I don't see any "full of great stuff" in the Talmudic teachings. Because I bend the knee to Christ doesn't mean I must also be a zionist. I do not believe they should be exterminated for "killing Jesus". I think you can be anti-Semitic and not be a nazi. My religious beliefs automatically make a Talmudic Jewish person charge me with antisemitism anyways. I saw an article on the news about how not supporting Israeli genocide in Palestine is antisemitic. To be fair the word doesn't even mean anything anymore like when a fat lesbian transexual Kamala supporter calls me a Nazi for voting for Trump. These labels don't have any real meaning
Joel, you said before you became Reformed not that long ago and politically Red pilled only since pandemic. Here you are with fresh theology (like theonomy) that is already shifting. I think you need a few more years to really nail down what you believe before being a pastor. You should not be leading while you are still sorting things out.
The secret recording (now available) does add some context. Joel's congregant (Benjamin) defended the anti-Jewish meme he shared (didn't repent or show any remorse). He also compared Trump to Hitler... both better for the country! Also defended the concentration camps as a wartime strategy. It's pretty disgusting. I am only halfway through. British guy shouldn't have been included. He was really the guy who attacked Joel. Joel did a good job denouncing Corey Mahler (Stone Choir). Overall, I think Tobias has good points about Joel's focus on the Jews. It hasn't seemed healthy too me, either. I am not a christian nationalist so I have no real dog in the fight... but this schizm certainly reinforces the view that christian nationalism includes a racist wing.
I've compared Trump to Hitler many times. Perhaps we simply have a different understanding of history. Listen: the things you think Hitler is and did, is NOT what anyone here is advocating for.
@@stevebrandau9300 Waaaaait a minute. You do know that the US had camps for Germans and Japanese during WWII also, right? RIGHT?! Question: let’s say the US goes to w@r with China. There are MANY Chinese nationals living in the US. Many Chinese spies have been found within government and industry positions. So, what to we do? What if China had strategically put them here for a purpose, which acts to sabotage the fight? What do you do?
Your religion is Bolshevism if you think there's anything wrong with anything that was said. Do you not find it weird that those who have studied these topics most earnestly are also the ones who come out with the most taboo views? Christians have been writing about the jews and their usury for over a thousand years, race has been a known topic since there were races. Maybe you should question where your disgust response comes from and actually study the subject matter.
Name one fact Stone Choir gets wrong Steve. Just one. Also, you are very pro Jewish and conflate Christianity with Judaism which denies Christ and promotes the Talmud. Are you a Christian?
As a theonomic libertarian, I’m always confused when Joel takes shots at libertarians. Granted, many are terrible on lots of important issues; so are many conservatives. But libertarians seem like such natural allies to… whatever Joel would call himself now… because the fact is that Joel’s ideal govt would be so much smaller & less authoritarian than our current leviathan state that it would seem utopian for even most atheist libertarians. Make it make sense!
GEEZ.... Confederate Heros?!?! I need that one explained to me. I can see how people say that Joel dabbles in Holocaust denialism...this declaration is making more sense to me now. I'm open to learning about historical events I might have been mis-educated about, but I see where this controversy is coming from now.
Most or certainly many confederate generals, officers, and chaplains were reformed. Dabney and Stonewall for sure and many argue Robert E Lee was also a devout episcopalian.
@@no-lie85It lines up with their willful ignorance of their inconsistency of Reformed Theology. They were sinners and slavery was their eras blind spot. That's how.
@@YTTraveler777 okay, I can see that... Could we say that abortion is a blind spot for some Christians today? I know slavery isn't murder, but it did destroy lives, brutalize, individuals and separate families... Slaves were treated like they weren't fully human, much like a "fetus" isn't treated like a baby. I just feel like any Christian who supports abortion is disqualified, could the same be said about slavery?
Honestly never heard of Joel Webbon, Stone Choir, Eric Conn, and many others before this stupid declaration and controversy, but I am now subscribed to all these godly gentlemen's content and have unsubbed from almost all Moscow and Apologia content. (Wade Show with Wade and NSA college channels are awesome.) Christ's (Logos) sheep hear his voice. I will follow the shepherds who speak scriptural truth (logos) and flee shepherds who invite the wolves to prey on their flocks.
Dude, bro (what ever your Chad preference address) Joel, Conn and many others denounce Stone Choir. Maybe you know that. Are you secretly just trying to deceive people that Stone Choir is in the same vein? Because they are not.
Joel’s entire reason as to why he rejects part of the statement 1:05:26 is a genetic fallacy…. Terrible reason to reject at least that part of the statement. “…. Here’s why I won’t…. (sign the statement) because I know who wrote it.” That’s an immature fallacy that seems to only be designed to slander someone you disagree with. Does someone want to explain to me why this is an acceptable way to disagree with a statement?
We need to be wise and careful. If someone has dedicated the recent days of their life to condemning you, and then they write a declaration which seems to be rather pointed and less Scriptural and doctrinal, I think you are well within your rights as a Christian to avoid signing it for that reason. If someone makes you out to be the enemy and publicly condemns you, avoiding publicly agreeing with them on a statement which seems to extra-Biblically condemn you is simply acting in prudence. I don't want to shake hands with my enemy when he seems intent on shanking me.
Joel I’ve followed you for several years now. I’ve bought your book on the heels of moving my family from Oregon to Montana. The book proved to be very helpful to describe to those I left behind on why I chose to do it. I found you often took the words out of my mouth as I was reading through the pages. That all being said I urge you to repent from this childish, prideful behavior that I feel has been on full display over the last few weeks. I feel that you lump in courageous, faithful men into your boomer comments. This is in no way Christlike and is very discouraging to many who have been following this train wreck of childish back and forth. This has in no way been handled in a biblical manner and should be repented from. For the record I believe those on the other side could have also been more clear and precise with their comments. I hope you take no pleasure in tearing down the reformed movement that had seemingly been gaining much traction over the last decade. You have been blessed to ride the coattails of men much wiser than yourself only to crap on them as you’ve built your channel. Searching for clicks using crooked secular tactics will prove to lead to destruction. I’ve gained much from your ministry over the last few years and only want what’s best for you, your church and your family. Please repent from your actions and think through things in a biblical manner and not a political new age way. With love, praying for you and hoping for a bright future where you get back to honoring God with your ministry. Also in case you think you’ll only lose the boomers….. I’m not one. That said I’m headed back their way, back to sound biblical teaching. God bless
He has already repented of the only thing he needed to repent of. The other side needs to repent for lying, misrepresenting, slandering, etc, and they refuse. Tobias’ Eschatology Matters video was removed within 24 hours because it contained lies, misrepresentations of the facts, and slander. He has yet to repent and keeps digging his heels in. Joel is the only one I’ve seen repent of anything. He’s shown way more maturity than those on the other side.
@ I’d recommend listening to what Tobias put out a couple of days ago. Hear the man out and see if it changes your mind. I love hearing both sides of the story before I come to conclusions. I’ve given Joel every benefit of the doubts during this as I have respect for him. Joel and AD have both also misrepresented Tobias in all of this. I appreciate you being respectful in your position. There’s been far too much arguing in this whole ordeal.
I agree that the constant bashing of a whole generation of people gets tiring. There are many different people with many contributions to our society in this generation. I also believe that we are to respect our elders.
Sadly had to turn it off and will most likely stop listening to you. Your argument against theonomy handling of the first point of the declaration and your overall perceivable attitude and focus seem to be on the wrong things. It seems like something is clouding your judgment Pastor Joel. I do love you and respect you especially your willingness to forgive and ask for forgiveness but something is off with you and I mean that with all due respect just unsure how to say it differently
James White is more mature, accomplished, and consistent than you guys. I hear a lot of pride in your voice. If you can’t sign the Antioch Declaration, then you have a problem.
Must we always agree with those who have been blessed with a longer ministry? Can a man long in the faith not make mistakes? Can we have disagreements -- each of us believing we are right -- without being sinfully prideful?
So sad how this ministry has fallen. (Meaning Right Response Ministries). Please repent and pray that God will have mercy in your immaturity. I will no longer be subscriber. At least until there is repentance.
Did you just go to the movies days after your wife had her 5th baby?? I really hope you live near family who can help, which I've heard that you do...but...wow.
"We are only questioning the events of WWII. We do not hate Jews. We are just noticing what Jews do..." Ie - The Jews are "especially pernicious," but "we don't hate them." Let's give you the benefit of the doubt. So you don't hate them, but don't you see how the emphasis on the Jews inspires hate in others? And the questioning of history. It might not be sin to question what you have heard, but if you keep questioning in the face of mountains of evidence and you give alternative views with only conspiratorial theoretical conjecture all the weight, I would question your epistimology. How do you know if anything is true if some things were lies are all things lies? The gaslighting of the Left has worked on you if you now think everything is a lie. Gaslighting is an attempt to make someone think they are going insane with their own perspective. Being paranoid of history, ie "the postwar consensus," is to go insane. The radical Right Wing Holocaust denial is the product of the Left messing with your brain for so long you talk yourself into being what the Leftist claimed you are. In other words, you took the bait.
"Muscular"? I think you meant to say post mil or political, Joel. God's providence is "delicious"? I thank God that he has allowed me to be discerning, along with others as well. This man is THE wolf in sheeps clothing.
It’s literally in the same vein as the Dallas Statement, the Norman Statement, Westminster, the 39 Articles, or the 1689. No one is saying that it’s akin to scripture or a requirement for salvation. It’s simply an affirmation and certainly one that every born again follower of Christ should agree on: That racism, h-l-st denial, and antisemitism are wicked, sinful and something that no one can live unrepentantly in and at the same time claim salvation.
"Racism" - whatever that even means is not a sin. The entire concept of racism was a 19th century invention. And the idea that questioning a historical event is sinful is just absurd
@ Imagine adding the Moon landing to that. Anyone who denies the Moon landing, which did happen of course and Elon is taking us to Mars, and live unrepentantly in that Moon landing denial cannot claim salvation? 🤣
@@mlwilson2956 The intentional killings of millions of Jewish people, POWs, mentally handicapped, Gypsies, Slavs, Jehovahs Witnesses, blacks, and (yes) Christians by Nazi Germany is historical fact, point number one. Lastly, racism, like any other sin, existed long before the 19th century; hence the necessity for God to include it in the canon of Scripture (ie Galatians 3:28, Revelation 7:9) to remind people that there is one race: the human race. Anyone who says racism isn’t a sin needs to repent and believe the Gospel.
@@lkae4 No, certainly not. While both people who claim the moon landings were staged and people who say the h-l-st didn’t happen are both simply attention-seeking, the former is not a sin, while the latter is.
Dumb question either intentionally or otherwise. He has. Stop implying otherwise. He even went into detail that there are two enemies right now, Communism and Nazism, but that the premier enemy right now is Communism. You either didn’t listen and are showing a bias or you did listen and are showing a bias.
Hold the line, Joel. We appreciate what you're doing.
I honestly think some of the most interesting conversations are taking place right here. I am regularly watching right response and Jon Harris and always walk away more informed and tuned into the turning of the cultural tide.
Same! After many episodes I think to myself "I am so much more conservative than I was 2 hrs ago"😂
We've been living in clown world for so long that we have forgotten how to behave in the real world. Lord Christ grant us mercy.
Thank you, gentlemen. This was a humbly and transparently stated position. May this become characteristic of both sides. Deus Vult.
I'm looking forward the next Right Response Conference.
@@producerjt Thank you so much! Incredibly generous!!
I’m in the middle of listening to the private zoom meeting conversation… they absolutely repeatedly tried to pressure pastor Webbon to discipline his church member or to step down as pastor directly... While I don’t agree with everything the church member said, this whole post war consensus thing is getting WAY too emotional. As a passive bystander of this, I would really like to see these people sit down and have an intelligent honest conversation using reason and evidence on this topic without calling one another “not a friend anymore” and “not a brother”. This is so dumb and if I was in Joel’s position I’d shut the door on all of these accusers because of how bad faith they are representing not only him but also his church member and all of us that have questions!
@@asherfong6906 I find it absolutely wild that merely having (valid, imo) questions about an historical event would be cause to discipline, excommunicate or ask one to step down from their position. Can you imagine being excommunicated or disciplined for stating “I’m not so sure Alexander the Great actually existed”. People might thing you’re a bit strange, maybe uneducated or misinformed, but kicked out of the church?! This is insane.
Oops you played yourself ua-cam.com/video/QCsuwBL2MXg/v-deo.htmlsi=yNKsvcACfh05XYJN
@ it really is just a crazy situation in totality. I think Joel actually was accurate with some people not being able to think categorically. I just finished James White’s most recent rant posted an hour ago and the conclusion that I came to is that these older gentlemen are not capable of navigating nor understanding the elements of the current social media age. Twitter is legitimately making these older reformed leaders lose their minds because they are being trolled by anonymous accounts and then blaming Joel for being responsible. And yes, I think that us young men have a proclivity to saying bombastic things in the least graceful manner at this current moment in history but the opposing side is making these topics issues of salvation while at the same time saying that they aren’t doing such things. It looks like they are just plain lying to us at times. It is irrational and they are taking the bait and creating a coalition against a straw man… these figures need to delete twitter and talk to their Christian brothers in real life and hash out their positions on the matter. And you are right… the area of focus needs to be on if traditional historical accounts can be challenged without excommunication. It seems they are claiming young reformed men are actually widely accepting Jew hatred based on genetics. I see literally no evidence of that except for apparently anon accounts. I do see evidence of criticism of Jewish culture and religion… and even some evidence of positions that haven’t been thought out completely but instead of ideas being refined with proper Christian reasoning, men are now widely being called apostate. Despicable. It’s automatically assuming that people questioning narratives have preset hatred that they are simply trying to justify. All because of anonymous accounts… what foolish times we are in.
Where is this zoom call, I can’t find it anywhere?
@@genuineimitation8799 Or if you denied the Armenian Genocide. Or better yet, DENYING THE RESURRECTION.
It's so crazy how Wilson, White, Durbin will GLADLY debate people like Hitchens, or that gay pastor who said Jesus sinned and affirms homosexuality, but questioning or denial of of a SPECIFIC historical (maybe) event is where they draw the line.
My family and I continue to be blessed by your ministry. May God strengthen you and prosper you in all things.
@@Boniface-enjoyer you should repent for exposing your family to this false teaching.
1:11:00 Gotta add, I'm a missionary in Japan. I preach yearly in Nepal and sometimes in China. Let me be clear: I love my Nepali and Chinese brethren. However, we think very very differently. 70% of our conversations are consumed with simply understanding each other. THEN, we can move on to Gospel matters. Are we brothers? Yes and amen! Are we also members of different nations? Also yes and amen. Do I identify with my American Christian or Nepali Christian brothers? Easily my American Christian family. And I'm not ashamed of that.
What area? I am a missionary in a rural town in Kyushu. I am interested to hear the thoughts of a reformed missionary because so far I have only met one or two
Praise Amaterasu! ⛩️
There are lots of brothers behind you Pastor Joel. Hold the line. We love you brother
A few things...
I am CREC and I love and appreciate Pastor Doug but I have been troubled by his tendency toward Zionism. The cultural soup seems to affect solid reformed folks as well as dispensationalists to some degree.
I would assert that even in the middle east Zionism is at least as hostile to Christianity as is Islam including persecution up to and including the bombing of churches. Palestinians and Lebanese are being indiscriminately slaughtered with no consideration of religious affiliation.
You are right that definitions are critical we must be able to distinguish between Zionism, Modern Judaism, and genetic heritage. We must also distinguish between hatred and opposition. They are not the same thing.
As to how we conduct our disputes it is important that it not only be done discretely but with charity and without deception.
Doug is my favorite-but he’s striking out on this issue. Very unfortunate.
@@JosephsCoat I know his family is Jewish so it's somewhat understandable. I still think he's wrong, and oddly supremacist in his view of those High Performance People.
@@Cinnamonbuns13 his family is Jewish? Never heard that one before…
@@JosephsCoat Yeah, his wife is, and by extension, his kids are too. Ben Merkle, his son in law is also.
@@Cinnamonbuns13 He said on a blog he did a DNA test and it came back 2% Jwish for him. Also said his wife is 26% Jwish. Her father much more (I forget the %). And of course either his son in law or daughter in law being married to a Jwish person. Not sure any of that is the sole reason for what he's doing currently, but always a possibility.
I will release a "Declaration", it'll be called "The Talmud Declaration, and it'll be much shorter: I am a Christian and I condemn Talmudic teachings". Doug Wilson and James White should certainly be ok with signing that, no?
I know you're joking, but please do this!
Of course they won’t sign it. They love being enslaved to the Jews.
Since White and Wilson are talking about hate of the Jewish people aka the they aka noticing not the actual Jewish religion and have said the same about the talmud I bet they would
@@leighalaughlin4056 it’s not hateful to call out bad behavior for what it is, though.
“There are some wonderful things in the Talmud” - Doug Wilson
I’m not clear at this point what Doug Wilson, James White et al can or should contribute when they are unrepentantly hostile towards good Christian brothers and seem to want Judeo-Christian Nationalism
It's so weird coming from them. For me, at least. I've followed them both for years. Not too closely, but I've listened to a lot of The Dividing Line and love Doug's blog reads and listened to a few of his books. This seems so uncharacteristic. I must have missed something over the years...
Because they are a bunch of boomers, still clinging to the propaganda of Scofield
Judeo-Christian isn’t a thing. Judaism teaches Jesus is in Hell boiling in excrement and his mother was a whore and all the carpenters in Israel had sex with her. Christianity teaches Jesus is the promised messiah of Israel, God in the flesh, his mother was a virgin. These are two irreconcilable perspectives. There can be no peace between these two world views.
The Christian’s duty is twofold: First boldly preach the Gospel to them no matter how loudly they scream “Antisemitism” while you do it. Those Jews who are Elect will repent and enter the Kingdom. The second duty is to oppose Jewish cultural values (Marxism, usury, LGBT+ degeneracy, antiwhitism, etc) with Christian cultural values.
@@Dave_Parrott I feel the exact same way as you. What did I miss?
You missed that “there are some wonderful things in the Talmud”
Great talk by wise & Godly men!
If the Declaration has been worked on for such a long time, why isn't it written clearly and coherently?
Hahaha cuz it was probably written by Doug "you can smoke pot as a Christian" Wilson
@@jpherrera2622 Doug Wilson has said in an article titled “Devoured by Cannabis,”
“Is it a sin to smoke pot? I argue in this book that it is, and that Christians should have nothing to do with it. But if it is a sin, should it also be a crime? There are plenty of sins that shouldn’t be crimes out there, activities that are clearly sinful, but we don’t want legislation against them with civil penalties applied. Covetousness is a sin, but who wants to establish the covetousness police?”
So he clearly says that it’s a sin in his view, it just shouldn’t be criminalized. I agree with him. There is no biblical evidence that one should be punished by the government for smoking pot.
@@trentcurtis7925 he might have changed his view recently, I read his book before my 1st son was born and the book was not terrible until the pot part.
@@jpherrera2622tell me where in the Bible it says anything about pot. Or pan.
Hold the line good sir, i am in the process of setting up a monthly donation program to Right Response ministries.
Joel, we have your back brother. Can we help out with that security system you mentioned a while back?
@@chriskintner5173 there are som guys raising money for it! Thank you though!
Biggest thing is just supporting the ministry.
Following both Ezra and Dividing Line and Moscow and you and Jon Harris and others in this and I'm left feeling like I agree with the other guys that there's a growing concern in the fringes but not to the degree that I think this declaration was necessary. Will always appreciate your ministry along with the others. Not gonna take sides, so sad to see brothers fighting.
btw I didn't sign it and I told JW I believe it's unnecessarily divisive . Wasn't blocked on X for that comment but maybe he didn't see it lol
Interesting that in the rush to exonerate “them” (I can’t say the word or my comment will disappear) from any and all wrongdoing, they literally let “them” divide the church. The irony is entirely lost on everyone involved. Perhaps there actually IS a problem, but, to state so would be, unequivocally, “anti-Semitic”.
You're gross.
Edgelords are the ones dividing the Church, but less than they aspire to divide it. Tempest in a tiki torch, I'd say.
(Jews, Jews, Jews)
Most of us would not know the name, Joel Webbon if not for frequent talk about those people who supposedly no one is ever allowed to talk about.
(Jews, Jews, Jews)
If controversy fatigue sets in, the clicks will dry up.
(Jews, Jews, Jews)
Is my comment still here?
@@genuineimitation8799 gross.
@@JW-tg1nn gross what?
@@genuineimitation8799 your sin. I find it offensive.
under christian nationalism we will have a quarterly thanksgiving with thanksgiving eves for each one
The remarkable thing about James White and his comments about race and nationality versus spiritual union is that the scriptures themselves refute him on this point.
Love of Nation and people is not in conflict with love of God if they are in the proper order and hierarchy and categories of good.
The same God that said that there is no distinction now between Jew or gentile slave or free and that you must give up everything and take up your cross and follow Christ, also said honor thy father and mother and said that if you do not care for aging parents, you're worse than an unbeliever.
James allows his americanism and classical liberalism and a commitment to the separation of church and state to supersede traditional biblical categories and thinking.
The question for James white and other people like him is, did God make any mistakes when he created the different races?
Did Christ create a kingdom or not?
Did God bless the Civil Rights Act with the charism of infallibility?
All good points EXCEPT ... God made people groups / ethnicities. We are all one race ... Adam's Race. The sooner the church gets Biblical about race, the sooner racism will be a non-issue.
@@TheNet1347 That’s not scientifically accurate though. There are different races. And that’s ok. Denial will eventually only reveal you to be a fool. God gave us science to understand the natural world and ourselves. To say science is wrong is one thing, it often is. But to deny it because it doesn’t suit your modern sensibilities is foolish. The only reason you think race is a 4-letter word is because the modern world has told you it is. I have zero problem with it. God made it all, and everything He made is good. Saying otherwise is to call Gods creation evil. What a clever trick of the devil.
Great show men! I recommend you put all this stuff behind you, if you can, and move on. God bless you men.
The Stone Choir guys and their camp seem somewhat deranged on this particular topic, but Doug and his camp are equally deranged, just in a different way. What makes sense and is Biblical is this "camp" right here.
This is important because we have to be based in actual objective truth and reality if we are to win. Now if we Christians in "this camp" can only stop spending so much of our limited time, effort and focus on endlessly arguing within our own little Christian circles, and shift that focus to actually taking dominion and winning, we can really make a huge impact. Godspeed Joel. I pray that you will be a leader in this focus shift.
Like the military during times of peace the recent church has men in it more concerned over safe careers than fighting.
Thank you Pastor Joel and Right Response and Happy Thanksgiving from the People's Republic of Massachusetts
Thanks!
@@erodzjr very kind. thank you.
1:20:38 all the people who had a degree in theology sold us out during Covid. It means nothing.
I greatly appreciated this episode. Keep up the Good Work, RRM! God bless!
The issue is theonomist not theonomy. Peoples behavior doesnt change solid exegesis
It blows my mind. Redeemed Zoomer is a christian brother we would have some social and theological disagreements with and is well to our left but even he is a presby of Jewish descent and is not as pro judeo-christian as these guys
Also sorry about my comment in regards to you and stone choir. I heard you already made good comments to your congregation about them and my comment was presumptuous and uninformed.
Keep it up, y'all! Yes, I love, and will continue to support Pr. Wilson and FLF, but I absolutely agree that all involved with the drafting of this Antioch Declaration (AD) should have waited until some form of resolution was achieved between you, Joel, and Pr. Riemenschneider. I'm going to continue to pray to that end.
The declaration that Pr. Spurgeon read over at Jon's show is vastly superior to the AD; and that's by his own admission a rough draft! I may be demographically a Boomer, but as a paleo-con, I'm neither a Zionist nor believer in the PWC. Frankly, as much as I genuinely enjoy and learn from Doug's writing, sometimes I believe, as our British cousins say, the style is just a bit "too clever by half!"
@@WilliamSmith-iz2ms well said.
What God separates, let no man bring together. Gen 11 list some of those things that divide. God pushed continents aside and separated peoples because of of evil or because God saw that what He was doing was good.
He shakes the world so that only the things that cannot be shaken will remain.
Thank you also for not turning the comments off. It's cowardice to not wish to see how your message is actually being received.
I find this so interesting... I read the Antioch Declaration, and realized very early on that I could never, in good conscience, sign it. Then I looked at the names of those who were involved in its crafting and the names of those who have signed, and I felt a bit of cognitive dissonance. I am not 'reformed' in my theology, but I saw the names of men whom I love like Jeff Durbin, Doug Wilson, Ken Gentry, (and others) and found myself wondering where my internal friction is coming from.
It is hard and good for our heroes to sometimes fail us. We all hope, ultimately, in the Lord Christ.
This whole saga has been extremely disappointing. I knew about these things before I came to Christ, and it was very obvious the world had no home for young white men who seek truth and have strong principles.
Then I came to Christ, I learned so much from these men. And yet, despite now sitting in the truth amongst others who supposedly also sit in the truth, I once again see there is no home for me. And this is solely the responsibility of pastors, not of those who have been bringing attention to these topics.
They want young men in a box created by our enemies, and work on behalf of our enemies in the name of the Gospel. It is monstrous. There will be no future for the Church in the west as a result of the most zealous and strong men being pushed out or rejected at the door. Judgment is at the gates. Even the pagans know better.
Same. I was regenerated in 2022. Before hand I was in all the 4chan, reddit subs, fb groups, chats and UA-cam holes of that website "a call for an uprising" since at least 2016 I've been around all the conspiracy of j-wish collusion with illuminati stuff, WW2 banking interference, Epstein, royal family stuff, globalism, pizzagate, roots of free masonry. I don't hate them, but I also am willing to acknowledge that if a people perceive they are still the chosen people of God they will do what they can to remain in power. Most of this stuff is still true even though I'm a Calvinist. I just now have the wisdom to say ya I mean they are in rebellion, unregenerate, and I don't hate them for it. But the memes are also sometimes funny. Doesn't make me a neo-nazi. When I see Doug, Boot, and white say certain things I wanna bang my head on a wall. Also most of the red eye blue laser X anons aren't Christians, so making a Declaration against them is also moot because they don't agree with the foundational principals of God's laws, word, or the Gospel. The declaration is like giving a calculus test to a 3 year old. But the declaration itself reads like it was written by a third grade child after a catechism class.
Was the declaration written with the same ball point pen used to construct Anne Frank's diary?🤔
Lol see Tobias, this is funny. And it doesn't make anyone who laughs a neo-nazi.
Doug Wilson, James White, Tobias and their ilk need to be reminded of this verse below. They seem to be causing dissensions and are stumbling from the true doctrine, causing others that follow them to do the same.
"Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and stumblings contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them." - Roman's 16:17.
Y'all didn't even get it. Progressive/ Final justification is handle heresy and MANY in these ranks believe this.
You guys didn't already have a clip channel? Then what's this "Right Wing Watch" thing?
The Right Wing Watch is a Far Left organization that specifically targets people who they deem as "far right" and go after them through means like doxxing, hit pieces in the news, smear campaigns, and finding ways to financially target their prey etc.
It’s a website dedicated to showing people how evil those on the right are by clipping their content and spreading it, mostly out of context. Thankfully, it’s a measure of success that Joel and RR have been on there and it helps spread their content.
After the recent Tobias video explaining the situation from his side, I now clearly see the problems on BOTH sides. I now feel even more disillusioned and depressed about the state of western Christianity and reformed movement as a whole and will go into seclusion to find some peace before the Lord Jesus Christ finally returns and set all the things in order and reveal all that was done in secret. I've seen some christian infighting, brotherly accusations, unconfessed pride, slander, lies and backstabbing such I've not seen even in the world. And I'm tired boss, I'm tired... Come, Lord Jesus, take me home
The Lord God give you strength and clarity convenient for your day. Be not ultimately comforted by the strength of men. Understand, also, what is men being sinful, and what is simply a hard word to hear. Christ our King give us all peace.
Great podcast as always. Maybe we should have warned you that “noticing” isn’t something everyone is interested in
I love your comment on the Movie, haha!
Hold the line. I'm grateful for your ministry, AD and Jon Harris
Jon Harris? The guy who looks like he just woke up crying in every video? The guy who whines in his videos every day that it's unfair that the history of antebellum South is viewed negatively?
Jon Harris needs a lot of correction his daddy apparently never gave him.
IMO opinion McDurmon changed after researching & writing his excellent book "The Problem of Slavery in Christian America." He delineates the downward spiral of US slavery laws to the point where slaves status became no better than a farm animal. I think he was shocked how Xtians defended this institution.
Most of Congress have dual citizenship with Israel
That's nonsense. Only 2.4% of Americans are Jewish. In Congress, only 6% of them are Jewish. That's far from a majority!!
Great great episode....keep it up guys!
Yes it absolutely should have been kept internal. But no, they have some deep resentment toward y'all for some reason
@@K81620 it’s no mystery. He (Joel) dared speak of the unspeakable. Sort of proving his point. Kind of like how “they” say it’s a conspiracy theory to say “they” control media, finance and politics, then use those same institutions to destroy anyone who publicly points this out. The brainwashing is DEEP.
Happy thanksgiving yall
Love Rushdoony!
Thanks for sharing such valuable information! Just a quick off-topic question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
At 18:42, who was saying the sojourner should be treated the same as a citizen? They should get equality under the law, but they are not part of Israel unless they showed they know Yahweh and want to live under covenant with Him. Ruth gave up her family and gods to worship Naomi's God. Theonomy does not permit wide open borders when the whole counsel of the Law is understood.
Saying you are part of the more "masculine" side of the Reformed Church is .....cringe. A strong person does not ever have to announce their strength not even once, let alone over and over.
Shed Eric Conn. He is a immature influence.
If Tobias and his co-pastor didn't like the way you discipline or not discipline your new parishioner, then they should've swallowed their pride and move on. Whoever made this thing public is here to blame and should immediately apologize! They were pressuring you in that zoom meeting and then Tobias even talked about your "coldness"? You were clearly patient with them both. He even said that coalition of pastors will form against you. If that's not pressuring and even threatening, I don't know what is. This is another clear case of abusive pastors who see themselves as center of the universe. But pride goeth before destruction!
Bommer brain here. Amen .
It is sad that the people of my two favourite channels are at odds (RRM and Apologia). There were differences and friendly disagreements since I started watching, which is good, forces me to think and draw my own conclusions. But as long as it stays friendly and brotherly. And weirdly it seems like the friction started when a pastor of a church only a few hours away from me came into the picture...
I hope it all resolves soon.
Bunch of school girls.
Tobias accusing you of recording the zoom call without his permission and also that you wouldn't share it because he couldn't remember what he said so he can apologize? Definitely, on your side with the topics. He just won't see where he is wrong because he is so blinded by the "antisemitism" he has to stand up for, possibly thats the issue?
@@mbeast1098 my member recorded the call. I didn’t know till afterwards. I wouldn’t share it with Tobias initially because my member asked me not to. He didn’t trust Tobias. I changed my mind within a few days, but by then Tobias already had it. He’s had it for almost a month.
@RightResponseMinistries thanks for the response. Like I said I am with you. Just hope to see this be reconciled. I'll keep praying for you and your sweet family!
didnt Christians denounce the gladiatorian games??? very appropriate for children!
My take, a random guy on UA-cam for what it's worth
I agree wiith Joseph Spurgeon statement "I deny that natural affection for one's own people is equivalent to hatred or indifference toward others. A man who loves his family does not despise his neighbor's but simply loves his own more."
I think this principle highlights a fundamental issue that seems particularly pronounced among white people. There appears to be a conflict within white Americans-perhaps even among white British people, though less so in other parts of Europe-regarding the acknowledgment of natural affection for those of the same ethnic background.
Most non-white people seem to have little trouble openly recognizing and valuing natural affection for their ethnic groups in the west. However, due to America's history and the challenges of integrating various ethnic groups, many white Americans appear hesitant to acknowledge anything related to their Western, white cultural heritage as inherently good. This internal tension can lead to two extremes: some may lash out and gravitate toward ideologies like Nazism or genuine racism, while others simply feel discomfort or confusion about expressing these natural affections and they just deny this part of them which will probably produce more woke ideology or genuine racism.
In my opinion, this is partly because white people are still the majority in America and are often perceived as the "default" image of an American. While this isn't inherently problematic, it does mean that when non-white individuals find themselves in predominantly white environments, their distinctiveness can stand out more sharply, often fostering a natural sense of affection or kinship within their ethnic groups. This contrasts with countries like China or India, where the default population is homogeneous, and such distinctions carry less weight.
People, often find a sense of kinship when meeting someone from the same town, city, or school-shared experiences that foster connection. However, in a nation of 340 million people, with 70% being white, the broader kinship of simply being "white" or of European descent holds less perceived significance, particularly in the context of the West. It may feel more meaningful outside of Western nations, where such shared backgrounds are less common.
Another issue is that skin tone and phenotypic variation-i.e., "race"-is a proxy term used to describe different human groups with distinct historical starting points in recent history. There are nations today that have emerged through the mixing of multiple ethnic groups, the extinction of some, and other historical processes. Yet, they are all human. Therefore, worrying about protecting one's ethnic background through reproduction is foolish, untenable, and unbiblical.
Caring about your people group and desiring immigrants to adopt your cultural uniqueness makes sense because that's how a nation preserves its identity. However, racial differences are merely a proxy for deeper issues that often go unaddressed. Many focus solely on visible differences, as if they carry significant meaning, when they don't. History shows us the dangers of overvaluing such differences, as seen in ideologies like Nazism and the institution of chattel slavery.
I think young white people who rightfully reject Marxism and woke ideology who don't get back to a traditional and biblical perspective but go completely other into Nazism or similar ideologies, to to me there like some young Black people who reject Western ideals and fall into African cultist beliefs or into the Nation of Islam in the 60s. Years ago I've seen some white people online who not only got into Nazism but also rejected Christianity and got into Norse paganism. It’s embarrassing because their interest often stems from the fact that it’s different and oppositional to the issues in the West. In the 1960s, alot of white people rejected the West by diving into Eastern religions and philosophies and now currently the new age stuff, so I don’t see much of a difference in the reaction-though, of course, some paths are obviously more dangerous than others.
Ultimately, I do believe we can disagree with historical positions, but the dividing line is on actual racism first and foremost. If a Christian does not believe that there is only one human nature shared equally and intrinsically from Adam to every other human being-the same human nature that Christ himself had and redeemed-then you're outside the Christian faith biblically and historically. If this is agreed upon, then we're merely discussing other degrees or lines of thought or belief are that cross into genuine racism because of the contradiction of the accepted Christian position above. But if we can at least hold this line, we can discuss differences in perspective.
I also agree with Joel when he said in some podcast-I'm paraphrasing:
"Christians are often willing to tolerate those a mile to their left, showing love and compassion, but we rarely extend the same tolerance to someone just an inch to our right."
This is true, and I've seen it in my circles as well. But as much as we critique too much tolerance and compassion toward the left, we need to be precise about how far we're willing to stretch this to the right. If we are unbalanced, we could end up being too tolerant and compassionate toward sinful ideas on the right as some Christians do to sinful ideas to the left.
Additionally, we should be aware of bad actors not just on the left but also on the right who would use this conflict to promote genuine anti-Christian beliefs and genuinely racist views. As much as we like to fight the left, we can become unbalanced and go too far to the right. In other words, we could fight for biblical views but become unbalanced and fall into unbiblical views to protect biblical ones. For example, when the Pharisees added more rules and regulations to protect the laws of Moses, they went too far. Though it was a good thing they were trying to do, they ended up becoming the enemy of Christ.
I personally believe this reaction and controversy and certain people falling into sinful positions ultimately is a response to the unbiblical and sinful positions of the woke Marxist left. However, it is foolish if we end up using their own tactics and also adopting certain categories they hold when it comes to racial differences or treating groups differently because of historical events. For example, the reason why a lot of people on the left feel free to say they are against whites or ask a seemingly genuine question like, "Can whites be saved?" is because they have categorized individual white people-or the group as a whole-as inherently linked to the historical sins of their forefathers, and if we start doing this on the right not only is it irrational and unbiblical it is hypocritical.
I cannot agree with all of your phrasing, but I appreciate your genuine and thorough contribution and wanted to commend you. Peace and grace to you, brother in Christ! May we all be corrected by our Lord until the day of His coming.
@@isaakdanielstrandgoodmanson I appreciate your comment. Yes, peace and grace to you was well brother in Christ! May we all be corrected by our Lord until the day of His coming, and worship him in unity in glory.
Trigger warning: Secular historians are still debating the Holocaust. As a Christian, you also have the right to question narratives.
This is hardly new:
One of the earliest researchers, Raul Hilberg, came up with a figure of 5.1 million in his 1961 classic ‘The Destruction of the European Jews.’
Very true
🍿
The notion that these events are nothing more than the expression of a petty infight among brothers and that these mattes were deserving of settlement in private, fails to capture the reality and significance of what's actually transpiring. As unpleasant as this is for all parties who find themselves at the tip of the spear in this debate, the issues at hand go much deeper than the players giving them expression. No, God saw fit to make this go public. To expose those who currently occupy the stations of authority in their error. This isn't a mere squabble, a notion that connotates a morale relativism between the sides. It's one side giving an expression to truths that run against the grain of popular consensus; an ideology that's transpired to have landed us precisely where we find ourselves in the state of our nation and in evangelicalism; an expression that runs against the institutions comprised of weak leaders who have followed the path of least resistance in the comforts they enjoy, knowing the ideologically bound mobs have their back, who can be called upon and used at their disposal, siccing them against all those who dare buck. The Antioch Declaration will find its mark in history as a watershed moment, not for its brave truths or its cleaver wordsmith articulation, not for its holding the line in said ideological consensus, but in its exposure.
The same people that correctly identified the tactics of the woke mob during COVID are now employing them against Joel Webbon and Right Response. The Antioch Statement is the black square instagram background and you are expected to post it even if you have quibbles with the burning of cities or with the particulars of the movement.
....and you took the bait of the Left. There is a way to be right about some things yet still ultimately be wrong....by taking the bait. Like you have.
@@austinrothjrfalse equivalence
@ Not sure what you’re referring to. My comment is gone. 🤷♂️
Joel Webbon, you have supporters in this very comment section attempting to associate you positively with Stone Chior. I dont know if they are feds or not.
I love the Lord and hold true and affirm the 1689, as I believe it is the best interpretation and most accurate exposition of the scriptures. Do not let them fool you, this does not encompass the entire reformed church. This has everything to with post mils, theonomists, preterist, and christian natuonalists. When your eschatology tells you that either Christ returned in 70 AD and that the kingdom is here, or that the church will usher in the kingdom. And see the world the way it is (which is what the bible said it would be) and that this does not match the kingdom in the bible at all... you get this madness. This is not a reformed issue, its an issue amongst post mils and preterist.
Everyone "reformed" besides false dispensationalism are partial preterist. Full preterism is a meme and not really a real or serious thing. Reformed Christendom is a tiny minority of Christianity, and full preterism is even more miniscule.
For a group of dudes who spend so much time talking about masculinity, you all sure do act like a bunch of teenage girls.
1:52:06 Additionally, as I understand it, the Jews are unique in that those that will be converted will be through their jealousy of the true church and Gods favor on them which is not possible for any other religion. This is because no other religion can claim covenant with god through Abraham like the Jews can (though they misunderstand it to be physical in nature).
You can see microcosms of this effect in acts everywhere where the gospel begins to take root. The Jewish leaders are provoked to jealously as they see God work powerfully in the church (and not in their synagogue) and they initiate persecution against the church as a result.
By Peter Winter
On the Bonhoeffer movie: surely everyone who wants to see it will have seen it by the time you get around to it. Don't bother subjecting yourselves to the propagandist boredom.
Also: I haven't heard anything about Gladiator 2 yet one way or the other, but I assumed it would just be a lazy cash-grab. Surprised to hear y'all enjoyed it!
Haven’t heard anything but positives about Bonhoeffer before, except for Christians being ashamed that he would join plots to assassinate Hitler. Does Right Response or someone else have a video I could go to for a breakdown of this?
What's the Bonhoeffer thing? I still isn't understand the churchill references. I've heard Jon Harris mention it and then Andrew Isker but never saw an explanation of events
AMEN! Sojourners are JUST PASSING THROUGH. In other words, they LEAVE.
Joel Webbon, if you really arent a secret Stone Chior fan and you really dont hate Jews all you have to do is admit you didnt realize how huge the neo nazi movement is. That is the crux of you and Tobias talking past eachother. He sees your congragent as a part of a much bigger problem. He is close to him too. You see Tobias as an outsider busybody dismissing his cloesness to Benjimin. You also I suspect underestimated the actual Nazi's in the chat as it were. On Tobias part, being from Germany where its illegal to deny the Holocast he failed to understand that Americans can risk talking more brasinly about their feelings and questions, but then again, your congragent Benjimin should have known that German difference. He sent the meme to Germany phones. That was foolish.
I’m not a Christian Nationalist, but it seems like you guys are being logical and following Scripture and the evidence where it leads while trying to dispossess your opinions from the emotionalism of the topics.
I’d argue that the free Masonic religion, and the occultism/mysticism that comes with it is a greater threat to the Church in America than Judaism. Especially since many of the people you guys revere (like Washington) were high-ranking masons (check out Washington kissing the Bible at his inauguration)
Would like to see your take on freemasonry and defending the various founding fathers who participated in this false religion
I can't wait to see Bohoffer
@@scottheitmanmarinesurvey3557 Gay
@@MiltonTheWiseAre you serious? That’s your retort to someone wanting to see a film about an historical figure? What does that have to do with homosexuality?
I saw it and it wasn't that great. It wasn't historical enough, it didn't mention his heretical "faith" (ofc), and it didn't go in any depth abt why he decided to ass*ssinate Hitler.
Sooner or later you will have to confront the reality of Germany. You are broad brush damming them.
Didn't James Jordan and Peter Leithart sign it?
I saw Peter did.
They did, but don't read into it.
@@IronFire116 why wouldn't I. It contradicts their own works lol. Them signing it makes them incapable of discernment at best and liars at worst.
@CorlosMazda I don't want to speak for them, but I have friends who spoke to them about it and got the scoop.
I started watching and even subscribed because of the videos about cool subject where he discusses them with his friends, but I’ve recently unsubscribed bc this guy is so self-righteous and I’m sick of hearing him talk. He’s impressed himself enough to let us all off the hook.
Can you give one example of Joel being self righteous within its context?
@@MiltonTheWiseliterally each word that comes out of his mouth.
What do you mean “let us all off the hook”? Are you implying that you (and everyone else) are antisemitic and perceive Joel isn’t confronting that?
@@JW-tg1nn Give an example.
@@MiltonTheWise he thinks women shouldn't vote. He thinks he should dictate which books his wife does or doesn't read. He's a theonomist. Pretty self-righteous if you ask me.
I’m glad to finally hear from you on this. White and Wilson have beclowned themselves with this hasty declaration. There is nothing wrong with being antisemitic.
Nothing wrong with being antisemitic if you're a nominal Christian.
I agree. Unlike Doug Wilson I don't see any "full of great stuff" in the Talmudic teachings. Because I bend the knee to Christ doesn't mean I must also be a zionist. I do not believe they should be exterminated for "killing Jesus". I think you can be anti-Semitic and not be a nazi. My religious beliefs automatically make a Talmudic Jewish person charge me with antisemitism anyways. I saw an article on the news about how not supporting Israeli genocide in Palestine is antisemitic. To be fair the word doesn't even mean anything anymore like when a fat lesbian transexual Kamala supporter calls me a Nazi for voting for Trump. These labels don't have any real meaning
Joel, you said before you became Reformed not that long ago and politically Red pilled only since pandemic. Here you are with fresh theology (like theonomy) that is already shifting. I think you need a few more years to really nail down what you believe before being a pastor. You should not be leading while you are still sorting things out.
@@YTTraveler777 I became a Calvinist in 2007
The secret recording (now available) does add some context. Joel's congregant (Benjamin) defended the anti-Jewish meme he shared (didn't repent or show any remorse). He also compared Trump to Hitler... both better for the country! Also defended the concentration camps as a wartime strategy. It's pretty disgusting. I am only halfway through. British guy shouldn't have been included. He was really the guy who attacked Joel. Joel did a good job denouncing Corey Mahler (Stone Choir). Overall, I think Tobias has good points about Joel's focus on the Jews. It hasn't seemed healthy too me, either. I am not a christian nationalist so I have no real dog in the fight... but this schizm certainly reinforces the view that christian nationalism includes a racist wing.
Sharing and laughing at that meme isn't sin.
I've compared Trump to Hitler many times. Perhaps we simply have a different understanding of history. Listen: the things you think Hitler is and did, is NOT what anyone here is advocating for.
@@stevebrandau9300 Waaaaait a minute. You do know that the US had camps for Germans and Japanese during WWII also, right? RIGHT?!
Question: let’s say the US goes to w@r with China. There are MANY Chinese nationals living in the US. Many Chinese spies have been found within government and industry positions. So, what to we do? What if China had strategically put them here for a purpose, which acts to sabotage the fight? What do you do?
Your religion is Bolshevism if you think there's anything wrong with anything that was said. Do you not find it weird that those who have studied these topics most earnestly are also the ones who come out with the most taboo views? Christians have been writing about the jews and their usury for over a thousand years, race has been a known topic since there were races. Maybe you should question where your disgust response comes from and actually study the subject matter.
Name one fact Stone Choir gets wrong Steve. Just one. Also, you are very pro Jewish and conflate Christianity with Judaism which denies Christ and promotes the Talmud. Are you a Christian?
As a theonomic libertarian, I’m always confused when Joel takes shots at libertarians. Granted, many are terrible on lots of important issues; so are many conservatives. But libertarians seem like such natural allies to… whatever Joel would call himself now… because the fact is that Joel’s ideal govt would be so much smaller & less authoritarian than our current leviathan state that it would seem utopian for even most atheist libertarians. Make it make sense!
21
Baby brained take. James White was speaking about the religion of Islam. You're speaking about the Jewish people not their religion
@@leighalaughlin4056 ah, yes, you know you’ve triggered someone when the ad hominems come out.
GEEZ.... Confederate Heros?!?! I need that one explained to me. I can see how people say that Joel dabbles in Holocaust denialism...this declaration is making more sense to me now. I'm open to learning about historical events I might have been mis-educated about, but I see where this controversy is coming from now.
Most or certainly many confederate generals, officers, and chaplains were reformed. Dabney and Stonewall for sure and many argue Robert E Lee was also a devout episcopalian.
@CorlosMazda how does the practice of slavery line up with their reformed beliefs?
@@no-lie85It lines up with their willful ignorance of their inconsistency of Reformed Theology. They were sinners and slavery was their eras blind spot. That's how.
@@YTTraveler777 okay, I can see that... Could we say that abortion is a blind spot for some Christians today? I know slavery isn't murder, but it did destroy lives, brutalize, individuals and separate families... Slaves were treated like they weren't fully human, much like a "fetus" isn't treated like a baby. I just feel like any Christian who supports abortion is disqualified, could the same be said about slavery?
Honestly never heard of Joel Webbon, Stone Choir, Eric Conn, and many others before this stupid declaration and controversy, but I am now subscribed to all these godly gentlemen's content and have unsubbed from almost all Moscow and Apologia content. (Wade Show with Wade and NSA college channels are awesome.) Christ's (Logos) sheep hear his voice. I will follow the shepherds who speak scriptural truth (logos) and flee shepherds who invite the wolves to prey on their flocks.
@6:40 LOLOLOL
Dude, bro (what ever your Chad preference address) Joel, Conn and many others denounce Stone Choir.
Maybe you know that.
Are you secretly just trying to deceive people that Stone Choir is in the same vein? Because they are not.
Joel’s entire reason as to why he rejects part of the statement 1:05:26 is a genetic fallacy…. Terrible reason to reject at least that part of the statement. “…. Here’s why I won’t…. (sign the statement) because I know who wrote it.” That’s an immature fallacy that seems to only be designed to slander someone you disagree with. Does someone want to explain to me why this is an acceptable way to disagree with a statement?
We need to be wise and careful. If someone has dedicated the recent days of their life to condemning you, and then they write a declaration which seems to be rather pointed and less Scriptural and doctrinal, I think you are well within your rights as a Christian to avoid signing it for that reason. If someone makes you out to be the enemy and publicly condemns you, avoiding publicly agreeing with them on a statement which seems to extra-Biblically condemn you is simply acting in prudence. I don't want to shake hands with my enemy when he seems intent on shanking me.
Joel I’ve followed you for several years now. I’ve bought your book on the heels of moving my family from Oregon to Montana. The book proved to be very helpful to describe to those I left behind on why I chose to do it. I found you often took the words out of my mouth as I was reading through the pages. That all being said I urge you to repent from this childish, prideful behavior that I feel has been on full display over the last few weeks. I feel that you lump in courageous, faithful men into your boomer comments. This is in no way Christlike and is very discouraging to many who have been following this train wreck of childish back and forth. This has in no way been handled in a biblical manner and should be repented from. For the record I believe those on the other side could have also been more clear and precise with their comments.
I hope you take no pleasure in tearing down the reformed movement that had seemingly been gaining much traction over the last decade. You have been blessed to ride the coattails of men much wiser than yourself only to crap on them as you’ve built your channel. Searching for clicks using crooked secular tactics will prove to lead to destruction. I’ve gained much from your ministry over the last few years and only want what’s best for you, your church and your family.
Please repent from your actions and think through things in a biblical manner and not a political new age way.
With love, praying for you and hoping for a bright future where you get back to honoring God with your ministry.
Also in case you think you’ll only lose the boomers….. I’m not one. That said I’m headed back their way, back to sound biblical teaching.
God bless
He has already repented of the only thing he needed to repent of. The other side needs to repent for lying, misrepresenting, slandering, etc, and they refuse. Tobias’ Eschatology Matters video was removed within 24 hours because it contained lies, misrepresentations of the facts, and slander. He has yet to repent and keeps digging his heels in.
Joel is the only one I’ve seen repent of anything. He’s shown way more maturity than those on the other side.
@ I’d recommend listening to what Tobias put out a couple of days ago. Hear the man out and see if it changes your mind. I love hearing both sides of the story before I come to conclusions. I’ve given Joel every benefit of the doubts during this as I have respect for him. Joel and AD have both also misrepresented Tobias in all of this.
I appreciate you being respectful in your position. There’s been far too much arguing in this whole ordeal.
I agree that the constant bashing of a whole generation of people gets tiring. There are many different people with many contributions to our society in this generation. I also believe that we are to respect our elders.
Dude, using Mcdurmon as an argument against theonomy is alarmingly stupid. God's law is vulnerable to modernism? Joel you're better than this.
lies
Can you at all be more specific?
Sadly had to turn it off and will most likely stop listening to you. Your argument against theonomy handling of the first point of the declaration and your overall perceivable attitude and focus seem to be on the wrong things. It seems like something is clouding your judgment Pastor Joel. I do love you and respect you especially your willingness to forgive and ask for forgiveness but something is off with you and I mean that with all due respect just unsure how to say it differently
James White is more mature, accomplished, and consistent than you guys. I hear a lot of pride in your voice. If you can’t sign the Antioch Declaration, then you have a problem.
Must we always agree with those who have been blessed with a longer ministry? Can a man long in the faith not make mistakes? Can we have disagreements -- each of us believing we are right -- without being sinfully prideful?
The self important bald daishiki guy with flavor savior who gets drug by Leyton Flowers over his self chosen chosenness doctrine? That guy?
So sad how this ministry has fallen. (Meaning Right Response Ministries). Please repent and pray that God will have mercy in your immaturity. I will no longer be subscriber. At least until there is repentance.
I suppose "Repent of what?" is the first obvious question.
Repent of what, exactly?
Repent of being faithful to God's Word?
Did you just go to the movies days after your wife had her 5th baby?? I really hope you live near family who can help, which I've heard that you do...but...wow.
"We are only questioning the events of WWII. We do not hate Jews. We are just noticing what Jews do..." Ie - The Jews are "especially pernicious," but "we don't hate them." Let's give you the benefit of the doubt. So you don't hate them, but don't you see how the emphasis on the Jews inspires hate in others? And the questioning of history. It might not be sin to question what you have heard, but if you keep questioning in the face of mountains of evidence and you give alternative views with only conspiratorial theoretical conjecture all the weight, I would question your epistimology. How do you know if anything is true if some things were lies are all things lies? The gaslighting of the Left has worked on you if you now think everything is a lie. Gaslighting is an attempt to make someone think they are going insane with their own perspective. Being paranoid of history, ie "the postwar consensus," is to go insane. The radical Right Wing Holocaust denial is the product of the Left messing with your brain for so long you talk yourself into being what the Leftist claimed you are. In other words, you took the bait.
"Muscular"? I think you meant to say post mil or political, Joel. God's providence is "delicious"? I thank God that he has allowed me to be discerning, along with others as well. This man is THE wolf in sheeps clothing.
It’s literally in the same vein as the Dallas Statement, the Norman Statement, Westminster, the 39 Articles, or the 1689. No one is saying that it’s akin to scripture or a requirement for salvation. It’s simply an affirmation and certainly one that every born again follower of Christ should agree on: That racism, h-l-st denial, and antisemitism are wicked, sinful and something that no one can live unrepentantly in and at the same time claim salvation.
If you added bigotry, sexism and capitalism, you'd have a whole leftist activist statement, my guy. That's not good.
"Racism" - whatever that even means is not a sin. The entire concept of racism was a 19th century invention. And the idea that questioning a historical event is sinful is just absurd
@ Imagine adding the Moon landing to that. Anyone who denies the Moon landing, which did happen of course and Elon is taking us to Mars, and live unrepentantly in that Moon landing denial cannot claim salvation? 🤣
@@mlwilson2956
The intentional killings of millions of Jewish people, POWs, mentally handicapped, Gypsies, Slavs, Jehovahs Witnesses, blacks, and (yes) Christians by Nazi Germany is historical fact, point number one.
Lastly, racism, like any other sin, existed long before the 19th century; hence the necessity for God to include it in the canon of Scripture (ie Galatians 3:28, Revelation 7:9) to remind people that there is one race: the human race. Anyone who says racism isn’t a sin needs to repent and believe the Gospel.
@@lkae4
No, certainly not. While both people who claim the moon landings were staged and people who say the h-l-st didn’t happen are both simply attention-seeking, the former is not a sin, while the latter is.
Why Is it hard for this guy to denounce Nazis?
Define Nazi.
Dumb question either intentionally or otherwise. He has. Stop implying otherwise. He even went into detail that there are two enemies right now, Communism and Nazism, but that the premier enemy right now is Communism. You either didn’t listen and are showing a bias or you did listen and are showing a bias.
@austinrothjr lol. Communism in this country will never take hold. US too greedy(: Trumpis and Naziism on the march and dangerous.
He did, and even funny mustache man himself.
Tell us you didn’t listen to the episode without telling us you didn’t listen to it. 😂