Sorry Breitling this is a BETTER watch than Navitimer
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- I was keen to get hands on with this latest release from Sinn the 903ST II
Not many people know the backstory regarding this watches origins.
I share my thoughts on this model and hopefully shed some light for those who are not in the know...
Lonk to Timeonly Website: www.timeonly.com
Link to watch: www.timeonly.com/watches/sinn...
watch featured in the video: SINN 903 ST II Black
Thanks for watching.. - Навчання та стиль
To those who don't "get" the design...
As a former military pilot the E6B "flight confuser" wheel is a thing. The fact I know how to use it is pretty cool.
It's just as much an aviation watch to a pilot as a dive watch is to a diver.
i guess... knowing how to use things that one was trained to use is pretty standard.
I don’t consider the Sinn a copy at all because it literally has the rights to it. This is a Sinn Navitimer. Over the years, both the Breitling and Sinn Navitimers have evolved independently to take on the core attributes of each brand. Sinn is more rugged and-do-it-all, while Breitling is dressier and more fragile, strictly a luxury interpretation. Yet, the aesthetics are still unmistakably similar. Personally, I love the story of the Navitimer, and Sinn is an offshoot of (and runs parallel to) that story. Any history lesson on the Navi should always include Sinn as they were a key player in helping Breitling survive the quartz crisis. Sinn has certainly earned its place in Navitimer lore.
Nicely said 👍
Sinn seems to be a brand that most reviewers will happily skip no matter how technology-advanced they design/develop/produce their watches. The 903 is great. I myself have my 8th Sinn right now.
8 Sinn's?...wow..one of their best brand ambassadors 😊😂
You need to avoid 7 deadly Sinn, right?
So 8 is a must.
😂😂😂
Jokes aside, i believe Sinn don't make that much of watches. So having 8 is .... almost like you buy every SKU of them.
Incredible ...
Perfect and subtle use of red in that dial.
Sinn knock it out of the ballpark with each of their models. I love my 103/104 and 556. Sinn if you read these comments please bring back some colourful dials like you did with the 556's.
I think this is a really great value. You get a lot for the money. The story of how Sinn (and also Ollech and Wajs) bought the rights and some of the cases and tooling for the watches when the original Breitling company got into difficulties in the 1970s is pretty interesting. I have an Ollech and Wajs "Navitimer" that looks a lot like an old Navitimer. It's one of my favorite watches. I'd seriously consider this new and improved Sinn model.
Bought the Sinn last year, as a previous Navitimer owner the Sinn is definitely a better watch to wear and live with.
Lovely watch, and very enjoyable video, thanks Peter.
My only gripe with it (as it was with my Sinn 104) is the lack of drilled lugs, and when they are polished and undrilled it's a dealbreaker, because I like swapping straps out.
I should have probably mentioned the lack of quick release spring bars on this leather strap as I love to quickly swap out straps too 👍
Glad you loved the watch Peter! Im over the moon with the upgrades. I was of the impression the navy blue would be my choice but the black looks great with the lume hmm 🤔
Thanks for the chance to get hands on bro 👍
Breitling fanboy here... but no hate on the Sinn. I personally would have a hard time getting this over the Navitimer just because of that. However, good is good. And from what I've seen, Sinn is good. I can totally understand how someone who isn't as obsessed with Breitling as I am could easily grab this instead and pocket the difference in price with a smile on their face.
Keep up the great work with your vids. I'm enjoying them.
Thanks for sharing 👍👍
Well said 👏
Amazing watch. I have an older Sinn 903 and have always believed it is the value proposition over the Breitling. Sinn did an amazing job with the recent release of the 903ST. So many folks commented when the 903 went missing from Sinn's catalogue. So glad to see they have brought it back better than ever. The other watch brand that also bought rights to the Naivitimer design was Ollech and Wajs. Thanks for the review, Peter.
Correct..👍
I have the previous Version, this looks so much better with the 3d Indices/Logo, very tempted to trade up 😊
I know that the younger crowd prefers thinner because it looks classier. But I like my watches tall, with prescense on the wrist. By the way Jomashop is selling the 43mm Navitimer with light blue dial, on a leather strap for $6,850 USd. 4th of July sale. Thanks for showing this watch, I did not know Sinn made it, and I do like it better than the Breitling.
As a Breitling Navitimer owner, I was about to suggest that you, perhaps, had been smoking something illegal. However, the arguments you make regarding water resistance, etc., are the same reasons that I don't wear my Navitimer full time. Thanks for a most interesting video.
I love the Navi, almost bought one a while back and the only thing that stopped me back then was $$
The Breitling is minimum double overpriced. Same Movement as the Tudor BB Chrono, but the Tudor costs nearly the half. So the the price of the Breitling is only made by Marketing.
When it comes to build quality, water resistance, price, and servicing costs Sinn wins. Breitling has some nice improvements with to the 01, but their ongoing quality control and warranty issues are hard to overlook. Not to mention that I waited 4 months for my watch to come back.. Im making the trade, the LJP L112 is more than enough for a tool watch
I have to agree with Pete on the limited edition issue. The 104 fan group watch was lovely , would have liked to see the 10 second markers on the chapter ring in orange and I was saving for that one, unfortunately they’re all gone.
This video is special for me. Because I own Sinn 903 for 5y, it just has been serviced and I had to wait 3months to get it back. Only then I realised how much I like the watch and missed it. I bought it cause I admired Navitimer eversince I saw some pics of John Travolta wearing it as a pilot in early 90s. I thought I'd never be able to afford it and then I found Sinn and my problem was solved. Dream came true. I absolutely understand your passion.
Thats a great journey with this watch so far, thanks for sharing Marek 👍
Learned a lot thanks! I’m always shocked by the prices of Breitling… I like many of their watches and I guess I’m not the target demographic.
Hi Peter, nice review. Lately I've been paying some attention to Sinn and maybe getting one sooner rather than later. Since you mentioned Fabio, I also wanna give him a shout out, truly an amazing guy. I just bought a watch from his company, @timeonly. And you are correct, he does ship world wide, as in my case. I'm in Canada.
The watch I bought was Muhle-Glashutte S.A.R. Rescue-Time Edition 1994 (black & blue special edition). It's still on the way but I'm sure I'll be happy with the purchase. So one more time, shout out to FABIO and TIME ONLY, amazing guy, comprehensive watch selection, not to mention very good pricing 😊
Thats a superb watch..enjoy it Santo...well done brother 👍👍
Santo! Thank you so much 😊 let me know what you think of the Mühle, should arrive very soon!
Yes, my B-I-L has a Breitling Navitimer purchased at least 20 years ago when he lived and worked in the USA. Still has it and wears it.....a beautiful watch. I seem to recall he paid something like US$8.000 with a leather strap but bought the bracelet some months later. The bracelet makes this watch pop and is definitely the right decision. I too have read about the sale to Sinn of the rights to produce this piece. Greetings from Perth.
If Sinn made a "World" Navitimer with GMT Hand, I'd buy it. Breitling USA has a Better Business Bureau rating of "D-". Sinn is the "better" brand in my opinion.
Good video, thanks for staying up late. Ive always loved the look of the Navitimer but not the price for what it is. I’ll be seriously looking in to this Sinn after watching your video.
Doesnt dissapoint 👍
Wow, that’s dedication. Both watches (especially the Navi) are out of my price range, but still found the video fascinating and informative. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! 🙏
This and the U1 are my ultimate SINN's. I aspire to own both at one time. Great review Peter.
Im sure you will acquire them both one day brother...excellent pieces in their own right 👍
I got the U1 last year, and I have to say that it’s been just as good as I hoped it would be - no disappointment there. And now I’m waiting for a 903, due to ship August or September. Got to love the Sinn!
Thanks for the review Pete,
I'm glad to see the 903 is back!
There were rumors that it was out of production. Instead, Sinn seems to have restored the rotating bezel system by deleting the rotating crown at 10 o'clock.
Random Bob has done a face off between an older. Sinn 903 and Breitling Navitimer.
Im off to the post office this morning to send this one back..I am having some serious thoughts about buying it...
What comes OUT of the collection though?.....ahhhhh decisions decisions 😂😂
I'm just thankful we have first world problems like this. 😊
Nonetheless, I had FoMO syndrome when Peter at Define advised that the previous model 903's with the latest column wheel upgrade was sold out. Unbeknownst to him and me, Sinn was already planning to release this new model.
So my FoMO anxiety has been cured....for now 😂
@@tonyvera-cruz6422 Hahaha
Excellent review of the Sinn! The newly applied logo and lume should be the standard for some of their other models, moving forward 👍
I agree Toran, that logo really pops in such a cool and classy way for this watch.
Lets see if they listen 👍
It’s not 3x the watch the Navitimer is. Let’s not go crazy with the hyperbole.
Maybe not 3 times 😊
After experiencing this in the hand though, I can tell you the build feels better engineered than the Navi.
Even the rotating bezel feels more premium on this, but point taken..more of my excitement speaking there 😂
If I didn't own a AB012012, this would be my choice, especially the icy blue one.
As you know Pete I’m a huge Sinn fan and this piece is a beautiful, functional and very well priced. Now to save those pennies and get one on my wrist 😊 Great video as always brother, keep up the good work 👍
Right on!
Good to hear from you brother
i don t think it is a copy. but i consider the navitimer more charming and historically influent. anyway the perfect combination is a navitimer as a luxury option and the sinn as a everyday watch
Breitling needs to up the water resistance. Everyone new watch should have at least 50meter.
That is a very nice watch, I've always liked that design 🙂 But I would clearly prefer a manual wind version of one of these to have a thinner watch case. Most of automatic chronographs are too thick, it is not very elegant on a wrist to my eyes. Thanks for the review and for the explanations about that specific model 👋
My pleasure 😇
My navitimer is,60s/a 60s car is bound to struggle against(some) newer cars,.but its a classic,,like the cars😮
It is great alternative with original design and great proportions 🎉Superb video❤
Incredible watch! 200m, crazy lume and Navitimer on top. This, to me, is the epitome of "one and done".
I had a previous incarnation of the Sinn. Very good watch. Top quality, but my heart yearned for the Icon Navitimer, and I flipped it. To your point the Navi movement is better, but beyond that, the watches are neck and neck. Would highly recommend to anyone.
I think the previous version of the Sinn was close to the Breitling (neck and neck) as you mentioned. With this new updated model, they seem to have made some real impressive upgrades 👍
Sin makes great watches...this one is no exception. Beautiful, just beautiful. It's an excellent watch Peter. Thanks for a great video. Also, watch snobs should get over homage watches...if a watch is well made and the price is right and people enjoy them, it's a great watch, homage or not.
FWIW, i disagree completely. i'll happily wear a citizen or a microbrand as long as it's trying to be its own thing. i would never wear a navitimer clone or a submariner clone. but you do you, boo.
Beautiful watch, would love to buy it some time, love the light blue one..
This watch would be perfect if it was a non automatic hand wound. It would be thinner and maybe smaller in diameter. What is not to love about that?
Thanks for the fine video.
We are liking the videos Mr. Kotsa, but more baldy goodness, and less wrist/body shots. Thank you, Sir.
p.s. Sinn U50 Hydro, please can the Mister review.
9:33 couldn't agree more, for all manufacturers out there. 👍
These LE models spoil things for all of us
Hello Peter always happy when the bell tell me new video thanks for your channel i'm following you since a long time, i like your method to explain on a review greetings from France
Thanks Cedric, blessings from Melbourne Australia..🇦🇺
@@PeterKotsa i'm following you since a long time and never been disapointed
This is a very nice piece and if you consider the price and what it offers, it becomes really appealing
Totally agreed 👍
I prefer my Hamilton Khaki Aviation Converter Chrono. The day date complication is surprisingly useful, and is tastefully framed with a polished surround. The bezel has more useful “cheat” unit conversion markers on it, and the Hammy maintains 100m water resistance by putting the bezel outside the sapphire crystal water resistant seal. I love it so much i ended up buying more hamilton watches, which started My Hammy Vice.
The Hamilton is a nice piece for sure..
Enjoy 👍
Peter, I admire your aesthetic range! I can see the values that this watch holds but I just can’t get to this aesthetic. Definitely see the tool value though! Sinn just kills the aviator tool watch! Amazing stuff…
Well done. Thanks!
My pleasure..thanks for watching! 👍
Would love the dark blue dial if they didn’t have the date like the limited edition light blue dial. Beautiful watch.
Well, the watch is... small. Breitling offers 43 and 46 for those who want to at least pretend they will ever use the core functions of the watch ie calculations. Personally I'd feel silly (and unnecessarily out of pocket) wearing something that is basically unusable for its core functions just for the sake of it looking cool, if that's the purpose they may as well just print some random decorative little numbers on the dial. But each to their own.
Fine vid Pete! I have a question: I also want a VJ 7750 in regular layout: Day/Date @ 03:00. I am wearing my TH-20-00 in my 39 mm TAG Carrera (blue, date at 06:00 MSRP $6750.00 USD) so I am familiar with well made chronographs, with or without column wheel architecture. Do you have a sub $5K USD suggestion for finding a 7750 in a well respected brand (Rolex, IWC, JLC, PATEK, etc. not included…..too spendy. ) that IS NOT a pizza plate on wrist? Sub 39 mm would be great. Thanks for your usual, high quality vid!
If your happy to go preowned, then you can grab some excellent watches for a great deal (I bought my IWC pre owned (mint/box papers etc)
Alternatively there are quite a few microbrands which offer the 7750 for great prices
Thanks for the review Pete, I can feel a trip to Define coming on! How much wrist time is the Dornbluth getting?
G'day Curt, maaaaate its on my wrist as we speak brother..😂😂😂
I am still grabbing it first when I open the watch box for a personal piece..💪
@@PeterKotsa great to hear mate👍👍
Great and informative vid. I’m totally sold.
Thanks for watching and thanks for sharing 👍
You're the best advocate of German watchmaking mate! Only German watches in the opening sequence with only one exception! The Sinn looks gorgeous under macro. Let's give it to Breitling, their watches is rather built like Lexus than Toyota! But who wouldn't want a Ferrari at a third of a price of a Lexus? 😄
Hahaha😂
Great video on one hell of a cool watch - now, get some sleep🇬🇧👍Greetings from Denmark.
Good night...😊😂
Even though it is not a head to head but I would highly appreciate if you could emphasize little bit on the crystal clarity. I am sure you are well aware about Brietling crystal clarity. I am somehow convinced apart from the 0.9mm taller considering the price and 200 m WR.
Yes the Brietling has got exceptional clarity on the Sapphire and in comparing the two, to my eyes this Sinn looks to be on par. The ar coatings are invisible and the detail I can see in the dial is crystal clear...pun intended 😊😂
Again, thats according to my eyes, they look on par 👍
Great watch but I don’t like brand confusion. Sinn has several compelling chronographs. I’d look elsewhere. Peter also has a bias towards Sinn (sorry but true).
No apologies needed 👍
Yes, I do have a bias to this brand, because of its specific tool functionality that they seem to do better than other brands.
Here in this model I find it to be especially true, because we actually get a chance to compare apples with apples, cheers
@@PeterKotsa The only spec I believe to be largely irrelevant in your comparison is the water resistance . The Sinn water resistance tech (even on push / pull crowns) is fantastic but this isn’t a diver.
@@user-vv1qm5dj9c You're right its not a diver but it gives superb reassurance when water activities are involved in daily life. I think the practical aspect here is a bigger draw card for me as it would suit my lifestyle choices better than the Breitling
cheers
@@PeterKotsa Thanks. Really enjoy your reviews!
Nice alternative.
Great review Peter enjoyed this one 😊
😊👍
Did Sinn not buy EXCLUSIVE rights? Otherwise why is Breitling using the navitimer design if they already sold it?
I believe Sinn as well as Ollech and Wajs have the rights..plus Breitling....so no not exclusive
Peter - great video. Love the review and moreso the watch. The brand is not called 'Sin' - rather 'Zin' - do your homework here pls. Not a severe criticism but get it right pls. Love your content mate!
Thanks for the feedback.👍
I used to pronounce it Zin for years and then spoke to several Germans, including Fabio who is German and I was corrected to pronounce it as Sin.
hope that helps...cheers
@@PeterKotsa my bad - you da man!
@@craigdlazarus were all still learning 😊🙏
My budget and knowledge of wristwatches overall I'm chosing Sinn over Breitling every time and the fact that you always put a real fine point on all of your professional content seals the deal PS I'm super glad that you are more comfortable in front of lense now just another touch of unprofessionalism imo Be well my friend and God Bless you and Yours 👍
Thanks Michael..I just got your other message as well (Professionalism) 😊😂👍
I have a blue dial Breitling Navitimer ref A23322, which has a 7750 inside; so it predates the inhouse B01 movement. That particular watch has a vintagey feel to it and I love it to bits. I love Navitimers and I don't mind having more than one to make a Navi subcollection.
I plan to get a Sinn 903 at some point, but I would very much love to get a different colourway than the current offerings. I know that will take a while, but I'm nothing if not patient. I'd love them to do an all black variant (which is a colourway they had in the past); so black dial, black bezel and subdials, contrasting white handset.
Have the same Navi. Wear mine a lot.
In the past, Sinn did an all-white version of the 903. The pictures of that version are to die for.
Nice watch mate, how much are they asking?
Way too busy looking for my old eyes 🤓
My eyes aren't far off yours either..but I still love the look fo the watch and the Navi..😊
best looking sinn even good lokking the only one for sinn
So did Breitling originally deign the watch? Then fell into the quartz demon hole and when Sinn bailed them out bought the rights? What does "purchase the rights" entail? I guess that's my question.
As the original designer of a watch, if someone copies the design then you can sue. If however you sell that copyright to a company, then they are legally able to produce the exact same design without any ramifications
Sinn also purchased quite a few dials and watch cases from Breitling back then.
Hope that helps 👍
@@PeterKotsa So Breitling did design the watches then found themselves in financial dire straights then proceeded to hold a fire sale for their designs and some dials? Sounds like Sinn capitalized on a familiar situation during the quartz crisis(as you mentioned), which is smart, but not very creative. I do like a lot of Sinn watches and their original designs(especially their limited edition chronos), but I think you're giving them a bit too much credit creatively imo. Now financially it's very smart, but most will still gravitate towards the Navitimer whether it's a poor decision or not....because of brand recognition imo. Solid vid btw.
@@Peanutdenver Smarts is the key word here for sure..👍
All I want is a 556 Peter!… But now…🤤🥰💸💸🤣
Hahaha😂
The waterproofness and price of this watch are impressive. However, let's not fool ourselves; everything else is superior on a Breitling-the B01 movement, the craftsmanship, the bracelet, the history, etc. But I really like this Sinn, I do.
Well said 👌
Sure the movement. But not the craftsmanship.
Wow!
Would a Breitling bracelet fit on this?
Good question 👍.....not sure
Sinn or Breitling, a navitimer is as navitimer.
So ... Good for anyone who loves it but definitely not for me.
Really like the Sinn vs the Breitling also, but already own a Speedmaster and a Bulova Lunar Pilot. 2 chronographs is good for me (at this time anyway 😜).
200m wr? The Navitimer for Malaysian Airlines pilots.
i would get the sinn over the breitling . better quality ,qc and customer service . also sinn is just a better watch maker as a whole and they own the rights to the watch .
This may be my grail watch now. Love it.
The argument could not have been more clearly made. Enjoyable to watch, but not my kind of watch.
Not everyones cup of tea brother..👍
FYI Peter, it’s a “Zinn” not a “Sin”.
Fabio is German and he told me it’s a closer to S 🙂
The Sinn wins for me.
Nice watch. Lots of bang for the buck there.
I'm a bit not 100% on that hybrid ceramic block indices. It look plasticky from the video as it's a ceramic and polymer fusion from Sinn's website? What’s your take on that?
It doesnt look plastic at all in real life...in fact very impressive and seems to glow really well even in standard daylight making for an interesting look
How do I sign over my inheritance?
A good watch? Sure. They got the rights? Cool, thank you for saving Breitling. But please don’t forget who invented the Navitimer. And yes I’m biased, I own a 1967 806 bought long long time ago. I’d rather put this kind of money on a column wheel Hanhart 417 ES Flyback
1967 my birth year...very cool watch 💪
I too struggled with the idea because I know Breitling invented this watch, truth be told👍
That said, Sinn seems to have made it better in the areas that enthusiasts appreciate.
@@PeterKotsaI was born in ‘67 too that’s exactly the reason of my choice at that time
@@MrPagnu legend 💪
👍🏼🥃🇺🇸
Someone who knew and used the scales was Helmut Sinn, who started as a pilot and then went into watchmaking. Sinn tool watches, and especially their pilot's watches, are fantastically made and almost peerless values for money.
Correct, thats why they made and continue to make exceptional tool watches 👍
Sinn is my favorite brand. I have the 105 UTC and 556. But my dream is still the wacky U50 and maybe this. :)
And I hope they release a smaller version of the 3006 (Hunting watch)
Irrespective of the price, I'd be picking the Sinn over the breitling. Especially on the bracelet, it's gorgeous.
Very attractive proposition if you ask me 👍
Idk but Toyota is the best car manufacturer in the world
Professionalism Sorry about the typo my friend Be well
Let’s start a petition to get these lumed markers and numerals on the 556A
@PeterKotsa
Why does no one talk about Carl F Bucherer? I think they own or are associated with Rolex. But no one talks about them or rates them. Can you enlighten us with a little history and ranking of Carl F. Bucherer watches compared to other tiers? Thanx.
I believe Rolex acquired Carl F Bucherer back in 2023.
Rolex made a statement that Bucherer will keep its name and continue to independently run its business.
The Breitling Navitimer has a water resistance of 3 ATM! In my country it costs about 5000USD. Who the hell pays 5000USD for a watch like the Navitimer, with 3 ATM??? It`s a beautiful watch, but if it starts raining you better get inside ASAP!!! Crazy.......
Toyota is ranked no. 1 on JD Powers for decades now. Toyota and Lexus are better cars.
Haha..probably the wrong model to use as a comparison...thanks for the heads up 👍😂😊
❤
Mate, are your camera settings ok? Cause your lips look bit bright, to the point you have lipstick on....
His lips look great to me 😂
Lipstick..? 😂
hahaha maybe I need to get some sleep brother, Ive been burning the midnight oil
It's a beautiful chronograph, but it doesn't even get close to the functionality of the reliable Seiko 7-T-92 quartz chronograph movement.
Right, and the 7-T-92 doesn’t get close to the functionality of an Apple Watch. Nobody buys a mechanical Sinn or quartz Seiko because they are the pinnacle of technology.
Pricy
@@guidine7 not compared to a Breitling Navi.
Yes, I suppose it is, but nowhere near the asking price of the Breitling 👍
Hey Peter. Love your videos. But could you please show more watch and wrist shots and on body shot instead of talking head?
I will keep that in mind for future vids..👍
Thanks for the feedback
Does this new Sinn 903 use bi-directional auto winding?
No it doesn't
Never liked this type of watch layout. Too busy.
Yeah its not for all..thats for sure 👍
I don´t undersrtand how time only can send Sinn worldwide. Each AD of Sinnhas there own area.
Biased here Peter, or perhaps sponsored?
The Breitling is leagues above the Sinn in finishing, wearability and movement quality.
Comparing the best in class B01 to an off the shelf LJP, well there is no comparison.
The Breitling is an icon, it is more than just a difference in logo.
I have to beg to differ regarding the finishing on this new updated 903...it is as good as any current Navi I have handled. Also the bezel feels better as does the crown (mind you this has a screw down crown).
Everything just feels tighter and slightly better tolerances (thats my experience) 😊
As for the movement, agreed, the Breitling wins in this department, but that comes at a premium unfortunately
Cheers
kotsa is an interesting name are you greek?
And you?
Thats correct. Born in Australia, Greek heritage