I had installed an eBay short ram on my 96’ Chevy C1500 5.7 it sounded not so great when accelerating, I think it may have caused a minor misfire or too lean of air flow constricting the engine more than the stock air intake... Felt less smooth under acceleration too.. Couple months later decided to compare the diameter of the short ram vs stock tubing.. Didn’t realize the stock tubing is roughly about 3/4 to an inch larger in diameter than the short ram “performance intake.” Reinstalled the stock air intake today and with the stock thick paper filter already felt and sounded better, went to auto parts store and purchased a K&N E-1796 performance filter.. The real test will be this weekend when I accelerate to high way speeds to work..
you know what will help if you did some exhuast work i took my muffler chamber out put a aftermarket resignator on it and she sounds amazin but i dont think it does noothing it compliments the exhaust sound and helps a little bit when you hit the thorrtle
I just installed a short ram air intake in my car about a week ago. It didn’t do anything for power but my Honda Accord V6 is now getting 22-23 mpg on my daily commute. Before it was only 17-18 mpg. It may not have given me much power, but I’m more than happy with the upgrade in mpg. Best $300 I’ve spent. Also, can’t complain about the new growl either.
@@MrQdog73warmer air means less oxygen content and less fuel to maintain AFR. Science is there, it'll reduce hp but when after fuel economy I'd take the hp hit
This was an incredibly diligent test and very well thought out. Thanks a ton for putting in the effort. But damn... the best increase was 6 hundredths of a second between 4k and 6k, and it apparently warms up after several hard accelerations and negates that small increase, thus contraindicating it for a track car. And people shell out hundreds for these things. Thanks for validating my incredulity :p can't wait to see your CAI test!
Yeah, I think looking at a % difference in acceleration is more meaningful though. It's a difference of around 6 hundredths for a very short duration of time. 2-3% improvement in acceleration is meaningful (after all, removing 84 lbs from my car yielded an improvement of 4.3%), but only if you're able to keep it in that rev range.
Engineering Explained do you think there would be more benefit if a tune was done after there installation of the SRAI? And if so do you think it would be a significant increase or still down in the hundredths of seconds?
Thanks for the video. Ignore the negative people; criticism is good, but they have nothing to back it with. Making a video like this takes time and we appreciate that. Keep it up dude.
I understand this video was posed 5 years ago, but something you may have missed in your original analysis is how fuel consumption is affected. Some say that the heat along with the shorter path for the air allows for a more complete fuel burn resulting in better fuel economy. If this is true then this is an excellent daily driver upgrade.
Yet another awesome test video man! Can't wait for the CAI! And let us not forget the real reason you slap one of these on, is for that awesome induction sound!
Usually it's best to disconnect the ECU, let it forget it's previous performance data and then do a good few hundred miles so the ECU adjusts the mixture.
SRAI is a great system so long as you set the car up for it. I would recommend isolating the heat from the filter with a box. For the cheap end get some sheet metal (needs at least 2 sides and a bottom), corner brackets to attach the pieces together, and some kind of insulation (Dynamat works great). Also routing the airflow helps. Some aftermarket hoods are designed to operate with these systems in mind and greatly help with the performance. The numbers may not go that much higher but consistency will become better.
"especially your mid range when you want a little more power and youre merging onnto a freeway" what if youre a "spirited driver" like me and you rev that ish through the roof every where you go?
Nice video. I love how you do these tests; they are so thorough. The results were quite interesting. I was about to buy a short ram air intake for my BB6 but I'm not even going to both now. You just saved me some money! Cool shirt as well.
I eagerly anticipated this test. Cheers for all the hard work you put into these videos. Great Stuff! And love the integra mods and tests, your tests take a different, but more down to earth and realistic approach to other things I've seen. Keep it up!
The lower times on the high RPM range, kind of make sense. If you think about it, the car is traveling a lot faster, on the high RPM ranges than on the lower ranges, therefore there's more air going into the intake. Thanks @Engineering Explained, your knowledge on cars is amazing, I've learned a lot from you. You're a great teacher.
Please test this: 1-Make a custom heat shield because the short ram air filter is sucking hot air from the engine and leave the low part of the original air box so the filter still receives a little cold air 2- Put a hood scoop
An AEM CAI (k&n filter) took my 00 civic si from 15.7 to 15.5 in the 1/4mi. I eventually chopped the CAI in half and turned it into a short ram and it still made the same times. (A cheap short throw knocked off 3 more tenths and brought it down to 15.2. Thats half a second off factory times for just a couple hundred bucks.)
The thing that i like most about this channel is that you do these tests and show the numbers and the math. Not just show some numbers and say it's better.
+jay dee Effectively, he's using the scientific method. This time-tested and proven method has worked for determining many things, from Gregor Mendel's genetic plant hybridization all the way to determining optimal DPS ( damage per second) in World of Warcraft.
it would be interesting to see if a heat shield would provide any added benefit. I'd love to see you try that one out. Great videos though, very thorough!
I got told before that if you put an induction kit on a car it will only really make a difference if you also upgrade the exhaust and get the car remapped to make the most of the increased air coming in and exhaust gasses going out. cheers :)
when I installed my intake I re-learned my engine idle and optimized the air fuel ratio to most effectively use the intake. (perks of being a Nissan tech) lol
Waiting for the cold air intake. I'm quite suere that there would be a better improove in all rpm range. Can I make a suggestion? When I installed a cold air intake on my car, I usead a pipe insulation (used usually in PVC pipes) to cover the stainless steel pipe in order to keep the intake aire as cold as possible. You can faind that on your local hardwere store. Keep making that videos!
As a physicist, I really really applaud your testing efforts and methodology and documentation. I'm curious what method you used to time these runs in that I suspect you have not treated the data appropriately with respect to significant figures. If you were to use scientifically valid significant figures, I suspect your results would show almost no difference in performance at these speeds. Keep up the good work though!!! I love it!
Ma Zu For timing I count the frame using a camera shooting 120 frames/second. I measure the number of frames from one speed or RPM to the desired RPM. Sig figs come from 1/120 = to the nearest .0083 of a second. That's as accurate as the equipment I have can get, and it's accurate enough to show a difference in performance.
Nice video. But SRAI works TOGETHER with heat extraction from the hood and a more straightforward contact with the air outside; also the ECU needs time or a reset to adapt to the increased air flow.
In a naturally aspirated car it is significantly more important to get cold air to the engine, With a CAI im sure the difference will be better Anyway, what most people dont get is that any mechanical or support moddifications done to a car must be backed up with the engine ECU mapping and programming (like optimizing fuel delievery and ignition timing) for the engine to produce significant improvements
I've been wanting to do some tests with temp, humidity, and air pressure sensors and plot some data, I could also put my chassis in a simulated flow tunnel to determine the best place to put the trumpet, You would obviously want to avoid any low/negative pressure areas.
In the 3-4k range small 4 cylinder engine cars hit a natural interference frequency in air flow that causes power loss. Some more recent hondas have resonators that counters the interference, but this reduces high end power because it lengthens the runners. This is partly why Vtec in k20as is dramatic because the k20 has a torque dip leading up to the Vtec switchover and actually makes less torque at 5k then 3k. Its the same thing with BRZ/FRS. Older honda engines aren't as likely to have the resonator and making the intake shorter probably makes it worse. That may at least partly be to blame for the mid range drop.
For a LS non vtec Integra you're making the most useful torque at lower rpms and a longer intake tube like a cai or the stock intake is better for that low to mid range, for a GSR or Type - R you can use a short ram with no problem because all the power is up top and the intake is letting it breath especially if you have an aftermarket intake manifold along with that the transmissions in these cars are going to keep them in the vtec powerband so you dont notice the loss of low end. The Acura Legend also had active intake runners run on vacuum that could optimize intake length for both low end and high end power with no vtec, now cars have variable compression.
I'm a Honda owner, and it doesn't make me mad because the results are exactly what I expected. the difference between stock and the short ram is barely measurable. if you really want to improve the performance, whether a drag car, or a track car, or just a driver then don't waste your money on a cai, or short ram, at least not by itself. my dad and I have been building cars for a long time now. it was v8 muscle cars....mopars mostly. but the idea is the same whether v8 or import. I got my first Honda recently, a 97 prelude base. what you need to do is get a cold air intake with an air filter that has a front entry, then use that to make a true ram air. short rams are NOT ram-air. what I did was go to home depot and bought the stuff to make a sealed ram air system and it works waaaay better than either short ram, or cai. get a length of dryer hose, the aluminum flex pipe, and a roll of aluminum tape, and a screen mesh for stucco. run the pipe up to the air filter, and run the other end to where ever you plan on getting the air from. in my case, I cut out the black plastic "plug" below the turn signals, on the sh model prelude it would be where the fog lights go. anyway take the heater duct (I forgot to mention that part) and cut it down to fit the opening, fit it to the flex pipe with the tape, and make sure and cover the entire pipe with at least one layer of tape to strengthen the pipe, when you get done it will be very strong. then use the mesh to cover the intake hole to keep debris out. I did it without taking off the bumper. it's not easy, but it can be done, but if you have the tools and time taking the bumper off would make it easier though. then use the tape to seal it to the air filter. I've had it done for over a year and have never has any codes, and never had any water come even close to the filter. it has two bends in the pipe that keeps the water from reaching the filter. and if you do a quality job I promise you won't be disappointed. my lude is stock except for the magnaflow muffler on the stock pipe, and the cai/ram air. the only thing I've raced is a f150 with a 5.4 liter v8. I beat him by about a car length. I know it's a big truck, but my auto lude is a stock 4 cylinder with 150,000 miles on it too. anyway, if you want to see it I have a few pics of it on my profile. I don't think I have a pic of the air filter, but there's one of the intake in the bumper. don't let your friends tell you that ram air is "a waste of time", because it isn't. both drags, and track race teams have been using it for decades
My short ram intake is wrapped in fiberglass header wrap, and sealed with silicone. Plus, I get the added benefit of it being next to the grill, so I get the cooler outside air while I'm driving.
You need to install a CT Engineering Icebox! Some HP gains, better throttle response and that sound! Gives that little 1.8L 4 banger a deep aggressive sound
You need to remap the engine after installing the SRI because the ECU will cripple your car when its programmed to stock air fuel mixture, but when you put SRI and remap it you do actually get a little more power than you would get when remmaping with a stock filter...
I think the speed one's driving is also a reason why it is more effective on high rpm runs in the same gear. Some high speed pulls like 60-120 or something would also be interesting
Great vids!! This is exactly why I came here. Was looking to find out if adding either a ram intake or cold air intake would b a good idea for my daily & u answered that question perfectly. Thx!!!
Damn, if only I had seen this a year ago, but I may have still went with a SRI anyway; it really beefs up the sound of my Accord's V6 almost to V8-levels and puts a smile on my face. VTEC, yo! =)
Your analisis is good but you need to consider extra data, such as air-fuel ratio, intake temperature, engine oil temperature through the runs, etc... Also when you're on a track, keep in mind that the air flow coming to the engine bay is higher than when driving on roads at normal speeds. What I meant before, is that with an all stock engine you may even end up running lean on gas and that would be both risky and counterproductive for your engine. Now if you build it you will definitively more air. Did you do any run from 4500 to 8k? I'm looking at some dyno sheets and it seems that the sweet spot of those engines comes up after a little drop on the curve at 4k rpm, then it goes all the way to the peak power at 7500rpm or so... Keep the videos coming dude, thanks for taking the time on making them!
I had a Prelude Type-SH with a short ram and i can 100% agree with the numbers from a driving stand point. When im cruising around at 2-4 RPM, it felt slower than with the stock air box and filter but from 4000 RPM plus, it pulled a little harder. PS, Vtec comes on at around 5600 RPM. I was happy with the short ram though. It gave the engine a bit more sound for cheap and without installing a huge fart can
You should try doing a test like this but substituting one of the headlights by the intake as some people do to see if that really improves anything. If it actually is worth sacrificing a headlight for the intake tube
Engineering Explained Yea, me and other peoples butt dynos. lol One person is a stickler for mods, my father. He thought it wouldn't do a single thing and he had said "There is a definite improvement"
***** Good point. My father (again, a stickler for mods. The first time he had been in the car after my SRI as we were talking about it he had said "it won't help, it'll ruin performance") in fact ignored any sound difference it had made. You've got something better than a dyno chart; My father and his dissenting attitude towards mods lol.
These are some really good real world tests, dyno figures mean nothing to me as they give little indication of real world performance. I would be really interested to see what difference something like keeping your car well maintained can do. Correct tyre pressure, premium fuel, fresh oil, clean filters, spark plugs. etc.. just some ideas
With N/A cars heat issues are more prevalent as a turbo car has a intercooler cooling the air down. A intake on a turbo car really only lessens restriction with very minimal gains, and a tune is pretty much necessary to see anything. Plus turbo noise :p
Great video! Ya know, I wonder if an air duct for the SRI would increase performance at all (sucking in fresh air instead of hot air). Thanks for putting in the work for this video!
I'm pretty sure if you put a Type R sticker on the SRI tube you will observe the HP increase claims. Even more so if the sticker placement is closer to the throttle body.
People will always try and defend the fact they spent a significant amount of money on an intake kit which they probably installed themselves. Fair play to Engineering Explained for actually running the numbers and doing a fair test. Of course the stock system is going to be better, it was developed to run with a stock engine as efficiently as possible, do you really think a design team is going to design a 'restrictive' system for an engine that needs to be as efficient as possible if all their problems can be solved with a simple bit of bent stainless steel, a pod filter and a few hose clamps. Just my two cents, and great videos.
Surely this works better with a modified hood or something like a subaru hood with air going in or out of the engine bay. Sir, you do to cars what I do to computers. Keep up the good work.
Alright! Good control, and explainable stats. however, seeing as you tested this, and CAI in your integra, I believe a reasonable sequel to these tests is a HOT air intake.
You have to re-tune your engine after installing any of the intakes to have a more complete opinion about what works and what's not and what are the gains...
+Edwin Aristigueta Im not an expert on ECUs, however Im pretty sure modern ECUs can and will adjust the a/f ratio instantly. Because air pressure is constantly changing, so the car has to be able to adjust to the natural changes in air flow.
+Nick Palaroan This is actually not true. Depending on how much we're talking about here. If the ECU can adjust a/f ratio, then we wouldn't need to go get a tune. Let's say for example the stock car comes 13.1 a/f ratio. You add intake, header, exhaust. If the ECU adjusts, then you should still be at 13.1 a/f ratio and not lean out. But the modifications would cause you to lean out at wide open throttle. I can monitor the engine with my hondata kpro ecu.
+A Little Bit of Everything I disagree, the ecm simply has a programmed map of what air/fuel and ignition timing it requires at X rpm. It decides how much fuel it needs by the air mass sensor and adjust accordingly in the matter of milliseconds. It also detects if it is running lean or rich by the o2 sensor and adjust according to that as well. You require a tune to change the air/fuel mix and more importantly to change the ignition timing. Just because the engine can adjust, doesn't mean the programming was good to begin with or had performance in mind. Most stock ecm's were designed to run very "safe", low knock etc.. It also had 87 octane in mind. Yes it can detect knock and adjust, but again was the programmed map designed to maximize performance..
It's quite possible that this particular engine was already receiving about as much air as it could given the other limiting factors (throttle body size, potentially leakage in cylinders etc.). I do not recall if this car has aftermarket exhaust from the exhaust manifold, which could also be a limiting factor if not.
It loses in low rpm and gains in high rpm makes perfect sense in low rpm it's drawing air from engine bay which it's not hooked to the ducting to get air flow like the stock filter but in high rpm it's telling sucking in air which it is doing better cause the filter is less restricted by the box
so at 3:00 you answered my question you did not allow time for heat soak to go away next time wait a half hour to a hour in between both tests it doesnt matter if 1 or 2c changes that much temp doesnt affect power heat soak on the engine from multiple runs over and over does tho
It would be beneficial if you added a hood scoop or other cold air inlet on the hood to truly get the most out of the short ram intake. By allowing colder air from outside the car a more direct path to the intake you can increase power. Also if you do a modification like this you can pressurize the system by segregating the intake from the rest of the engine bay and directly connecting the intake to the hood inlet. But this kind of intake would have to be optimised for specific engine and aspiration type, so it is a modification you might want to consider if you ever decide to get a custom aftermarket carbon fiber or fiberglass hood later in the series.
SRIs are better for fuel economy because the warmer air gives more complete combustion, and the shorter air path is more efficient. It also sounds much better.
Great video. You probably won't get bac to me, but here's my question: I have a 2015 toyota corolla S sedan, 1.8 ltr. 4 cyl. and I was thinking about installing (all at one time) a short ram, a borla cat back muffler and a chip tuner. That said, will the short ram work well in all bands if I do replace the back end with the borla straight-thru exhaust? If so, is this worth the $1k investment, or a waste of my time? Thank you sir! I'll seek out your reply.
This is exactly why I laugh at people who do a whole bunch of mods to their cars and don't bother to reflash the e.c.u. or install an aftermarket one. The computer is tuned to work with the stock parts so free flowing parts will cause a different fuel air reading in the computer. Sure it will try to compensate for the difference by adjusting the ratio, but it won't be able to tell that the parts are different so it won't take full advantage of them.
サントスシｮナサン Same problem. Any time you change the flow characteristics through the engine you change what the computer is going to see as far as air/fuel ratio. The less mods you do, the less the difference will be; but it's still going to affect things. It's almost as bad as someone installing smaller jets in a carburetor and not bothering to adjust the fuel mix screws. Depending on the mods you do and the way the computer tries to compensate you can cause either a rich or lean fuel ratio and destroy your engine or clog it with carbon. Even something as simple as replacing the stock air box with a cone filter in a proper heat isolation housing can affect the ratio and lead to problems eventually.
ahh I see so your saying with all the bolt on mods, get the Ecu tuned or reflash to compensate for the mods bolted on the car? I'm kinda doing that lol. as much bolt ons and then tune the ecu/reflash. I don't want to do it one by one.
サントスシｮナサン I would say do as much as you can to your engine before you get the tuning done. If you're going to increase your airflow with exhaust and intake with a bigger throttle body and injectors or any of those kinds of combination mods you'll want to get everything done at the same time to save time and effort. With the things that the guy has done to his car in the videos I'd say he could get away with a simple hand held power programmer. If he was going to be trying to push more power out of it, I'd say take it to a tuning shop and have them load test it on a dyno to see what the ratios are like at different load/speed levels. A car that can run well at idle and at high rpm could have a lean condition at normal driving rpm and melt pistons over time even without detonation. I've seen it first hand.
that makes sense. at the very least the vehicle computer doesn't know what it isn't told. most easy bolt on stuff doesn't have any way to tell the computer it is there. it would be neat if he keeps track of all this and when he is done with all these changes he does a set of tests. then goes to get a good tuning and does tests. that way it is cheaper on him and he shows how much of a difference tuning can do after enough upgrades
Well, at least it sounds better
Hahahahaha
😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂
I've got one on my car. Doesn't really do anything except give a nice sound and look cool under the hood haha
Do you get a engine light from it ?
Jimy Official if u have the censor connected it shouldn’t
Basically street cred
I had installed an eBay short ram on my 96’ Chevy C1500 5.7 it sounded not so great when accelerating, I think it may have caused a minor misfire or too lean of air flow constricting the engine more than the stock air intake... Felt less smooth under acceleration too.. Couple months later decided to compare the diameter of the short ram vs stock tubing.. Didn’t realize the stock tubing is roughly about 3/4 to an inch larger in diameter than the short ram “performance intake.” Reinstalled the stock air intake today and with the stock thick paper filter already felt and sounded better, went to auto parts store and purchased a K&N E-1796 performance filter.. The real test will be this weekend when I accelerate to high way speeds to work..
you know what will help if you did some exhuast work
i took my muffler chamber out put a aftermarket resignator on it and she sounds amazin but i dont think it does noothing it compliments the exhaust sound and helps a little bit when you hit the thorrtle
I just installed a short ram air intake in my car about a week ago. It didn’t do anything for power but my Honda Accord V6 is now getting 22-23 mpg on my daily commute. Before it was only 17-18 mpg. It may not have given me much power, but I’m more than happy with the upgrade in mpg. Best $300 I’ve spent. Also, can’t complain about the new growl either.
Yeah I heard that with the ram air your getting more warm air into the engine which helps reduce unburnt gas so increases fuel efficiency...nice bonus
@@MrQdog73warmer air means less oxygen content and less fuel to maintain AFR. Science is there, it'll reduce hp but when after fuel economy I'd take the hp hit
This was an incredibly diligent test and very well thought out. Thanks a ton for putting in the effort.
But damn... the best increase was 6 hundredths of a second between 4k and 6k, and it apparently warms up after several hard accelerations and negates that small increase, thus contraindicating it for a track car. And people shell out hundreds for these things. Thanks for validating my incredulity :p can't wait to see your CAI test!
Yeah, I think looking at a % difference in acceleration is more meaningful though. It's a difference of around 6 hundredths for a very short duration of time. 2-3% improvement in acceleration is meaningful (after all, removing 84 lbs from my car yielded an improvement of 4.3%), but only if you're able to keep it in that rev range.
Engineering Explained do you think there would be more benefit if a tune was done after there installation of the SRAI? And if so do you think it would be a significant increase or still down in the hundredths of seconds?
Thanks for the video. Ignore the negative people; criticism is good, but they have nothing to back it with. Making a video like this takes time and we appreciate that. Keep it up dude.
But my eBay short ram says +15hp on the box , I swear to god.
SevereDub Ebay never lies!
SevereDub and you kiss ur mother with that mouth
Maybe after moding the vehicle get it dyno tune to pull more power ??
Needs more stickers
David Bartz bro 😂
I understand this video was posed 5 years ago, but something you may have missed in your original analysis is how fuel consumption is affected. Some say that the heat along with the shorter path for the air allows for a more complete fuel burn resulting in better fuel economy. If this is true then this is an excellent daily driver upgrade.
Actually a good test, the results make sense to me. Good work man!
Yet another awesome test video man! Can't wait for the CAI! And let us not forget the real reason you slap one of these on, is for that awesome induction sound!
I use my car in daily driving going to work, but always in high revs because Im always late.
THANK YOU!
For this informative, attention-to-detail oriented, well-spoken and clearly explained video. Appreciate your time and effort.
Thank you to people like you who do all the thought work for us! all we have to do is then put on the right parts according to the research results!
congrats on the silver play button! keep it up! love the vids!
E-E is like the 3nd best car youtube channel out there!
Usually it's best to disconnect the ECU, let it forget it's previous performance data and then do a good few hundred miles so the ECU adjusts the mixture.
What did you think the MAP sensor does
SRAI is a great system so long as you set the car up for it. I would recommend isolating the heat from the filter with a box. For the cheap end get some sheet metal (needs at least 2 sides and a bottom), corner brackets to attach the pieces together, and some kind of insulation (Dynamat works great). Also routing the airflow helps. Some aftermarket hoods are designed to operate with these systems in mind and greatly help with the performance. The numbers may not go that much higher but consistency will become better.
"especially your mid range when you want a little more power and youre merging onnto a freeway" what if youre a "spirited driver" like me and you rev that ish through the roof every where you go?
Nice video. I love how you do these tests; they are so thorough. The results were quite interesting. I was about to buy a short ram air intake for my BB6 but I'm not even going to both now. You just saved me some money! Cool shirt as well.
Gewehr7 Thanks!
I eagerly anticipated this test.
Cheers for all the hard work you put into these videos. Great Stuff!
And love the integra mods and tests, your tests take a different, but more down to earth and realistic approach to other things I've seen.
Keep it up!
Whenever i have a question about something car related, i always find the answers in your videos :) Thanks, keep up the good work!
The lower times on the high RPM range, kind of make sense. If you think about it, the car is traveling a lot faster, on the high RPM ranges than on the lower ranges, therefore there's more air going into the intake. Thanks @Engineering Explained, your knowledge on cars is amazing, I've learned a lot from you. You're a great teacher.
I too noticed a significant difference on the sound the engine makes.
Great video, thanks for all your work, I know you wasn't easy at all.
Please test this:
1-Make a custom heat shield because the short ram air filter is sucking hot air from the engine and leave the low part of the original air box so the filter still receives a little cold air
2- Put a hood scoop
An AEM CAI (k&n filter) took my 00 civic si from 15.7 to 15.5 in the 1/4mi. I eventually chopped the CAI in half and turned it into a short ram and it still made the same times.
(A cheap short throw knocked off 3 more tenths and brought it down to 15.2. Thats half a second off factory times for just a couple hundred bucks.)
A short throw dipstick will get you some gains.
Solaire The SunBro praise the sun!!
There's a short dipstick down the street from me and everybody gets mad when I throw him, no gain there
The one I bought has a huge sculpted heat shield and a tube connection. It gets the air directly from the outside, so both help, I also like the sound
Very thorough, appeals to the ocd gearhead in me. Nice job.
It sounds better with the short ram tho
The thing that i like most about this channel is that you do these tests and show the numbers and the math. Not just show some numbers and say it's better.
+jay dee Effectively, he's using the scientific method. This time-tested and proven method has worked for determining many things, from Gregor Mendel's genetic plant hybridization all the way to determining optimal DPS ( damage per second) in World of Warcraft.
it would be interesting to see if a heat shield would provide any added benefit. I'd love to see you try that one out. Great videos though, very thorough!
I got told before that if you put an induction kit on a car it will only really make a difference if you also upgrade the exhaust and get the car remapped to make the most of the increased air coming in and exhaust gasses going out. cheers :)
when I installed my intake I re-learned my engine idle and optimized the air fuel ratio to most effectively use the intake. (perks of being a Nissan tech) lol
Any engine light ?
Jimy Official he said that 3 years ago😂
Waiting for the cold air intake. I'm quite suere that there would be a better improove in all rpm range.
Can I make a suggestion? When I installed a cold air intake on my car, I usead a pipe insulation (used usually in PVC pipes) to cover the stainless steel pipe in order to keep the intake aire as cold as possible. You can faind that on your local hardwere store.
Keep making that videos!
As a physicist, I really really applaud your testing efforts and methodology and documentation. I'm curious what method you used to time these runs in that I suspect you have not treated the data appropriately with respect to significant figures. If you were to use scientifically valid significant figures, I suspect your results would show almost no difference in performance at these speeds. Keep up the good work though!!! I love it!
Ma Zu For timing I count the frame using a camera shooting 120 frames/second. I measure the number of frames from one speed or RPM to the desired RPM. Sig figs come from 1/120 = to the nearest .0083 of a second. That's as accurate as the equipment I have can get, and it's accurate enough to show a difference in performance.
Nice video. But SRAI works TOGETHER with heat extraction from the hood and a more straightforward contact with the air outside; also the ECU needs time or a reset to adapt to the increased air flow.
In a naturally aspirated car it is significantly more important to get cold air to the engine, With a CAI im sure the difference will be better
Anyway, what most people dont get is that any mechanical or support moddifications done to a car must be backed up with the engine ECU mapping and programming (like optimizing fuel delievery and ignition timing) for the engine to produce significant improvements
I've been wanting to do some tests with temp, humidity, and air pressure sensors and plot some data, I could also put my chassis in a simulated flow tunnel to determine the best place to put the trumpet, You would obviously want to avoid any low/negative pressure areas.
In the 3-4k range small 4 cylinder engine cars hit a natural interference frequency in air flow that causes power loss. Some more recent hondas have resonators that counters the interference, but this reduces high end power because it lengthens the runners. This is partly why Vtec in k20as is dramatic because the k20 has a torque dip leading up to the Vtec switchover and actually makes less torque at 5k then 3k. Its the same thing with BRZ/FRS. Older honda engines aren't as likely to have the resonator and making the intake shorter probably makes it worse. That may at least partly be to blame for the mid range drop.
For a LS non vtec Integra you're making the most useful torque at lower rpms and a longer intake tube like a cai or the stock intake is better for that low to mid range, for a GSR or Type - R you can use a short ram with no problem because all the power is up top and the intake is letting it breath especially if you have an aftermarket intake manifold along with that the transmissions in these cars are going to keep them in the vtec powerband so you dont notice the loss of low end. The Acura Legend also had active intake runners run on vacuum that could optimize intake length for both low end and high end power with no vtec, now cars have variable compression.
I'm a Honda owner, and it doesn't make me mad because the results are exactly what I expected. the difference between stock and the short ram is barely measurable. if you really want to improve the performance, whether a drag car, or a track car, or just a driver then don't waste your money on a cai, or short ram, at least not by itself. my dad and I have been building cars for a long time now. it was v8 muscle cars....mopars mostly. but the idea is the same whether v8 or import. I got my first Honda recently, a 97 prelude base. what you need to do is get a cold air intake with an air filter that has a front entry, then use that to make a true ram air. short rams are NOT ram-air. what I did was go to home depot and bought the stuff to make a sealed ram air system and it works waaaay better than either short ram, or cai. get a length of dryer hose, the aluminum flex pipe, and a roll of aluminum tape, and a screen mesh for stucco. run the pipe up to the air filter, and run the other end to where ever you plan on getting the air from. in my case, I cut out the black plastic "plug" below the turn signals, on the sh model prelude it would be where the fog lights go. anyway take the heater duct (I forgot to mention that part) and cut it down to fit the opening, fit it to the flex pipe with the tape, and make sure and cover the entire pipe with at least one layer of tape to strengthen the pipe, when you get done it will be very strong. then use the mesh to cover the intake hole to keep debris out. I did it without taking off the bumper. it's not easy, but it can be done, but if you have the tools and time taking the bumper off would make it easier though. then use the tape to seal it to the air filter. I've had it done for over a year and have never has any codes, and never had any water come even close to the filter. it has two bends in the pipe that keeps the water from reaching the filter. and if you do a quality job I promise you won't be disappointed. my lude is stock except for the magnaflow muffler on the stock pipe, and the cai/ram air. the only thing I've raced is a f150 with a 5.4 liter v8. I beat him by about a car length. I know it's a big truck, but my auto lude is a stock 4 cylinder with 150,000 miles on it too. anyway, if you want to see it I have a few pics of it on my profile. I don't think I have a pic of the air filter, but there's one of the intake in the bumper. don't let your friends tell you that ram air is "a waste of time", because it isn't. both drags, and track race teams have been using it for decades
My short ram intake is wrapped in fiberglass header wrap, and sealed with silicone. Plus, I get the added benefit of it being next to the grill, so I get the cooler outside air while I'm driving.
Awesome channel, I been watching your videos since the "Horsepower vs Torque" video!
Everything I need is SOUND 😁
You need to install a CT Engineering Icebox! Some HP gains, better throttle response and that sound! Gives that little 1.8L 4 banger a deep aggressive sound
I think it depends on the type of car for short rams
You need to remap the engine after installing the SRI because the ECU will cripple your car when its programmed to stock air fuel mixture, but when you put SRI and remap it you do actually get a little more power than you would get when remmaping with a stock filter...
This is a more in-depth discussion about a stock air intake than I ever knew was possible -_-.
MrSlowestD16 I could babble all day.
Engineering Explained Well it does shed light on the age old argument, so settled a good dispute, especially in the Honda world, haha.
My Alfa (156 2.0TS) has something called VLIM Variable Length Intake Manifold. So I get either a long pipe or a short one depending on conditions.
I think the speed one's driving is also a reason why it is more effective on high rpm runs in the same gear. Some high speed pulls like 60-120 or something would also be interesting
Great vids!! This is exactly why I came here. Was looking to find out if adding either a ram intake or cold air intake would b a good idea for my daily & u answered that question perfectly. Thx!!!
Damn, if only I had seen this a year ago, but I may have still went with a SRI anyway; it really beefs up the sound of my Accord's V6 almost to V8-levels and puts a smile on my face. VTEC, yo! =)
Your analisis is good but you need to consider extra data, such as air-fuel ratio, intake temperature, engine oil temperature through the runs, etc... Also when you're on a track, keep in mind that the air flow coming to the engine bay is higher than when driving on roads at normal speeds. What I meant before, is that with an all stock engine you may even end up running lean on gas and that would be both risky and counterproductive for your engine. Now if you build it you will definitively more air. Did you do any run from 4500 to 8k? I'm looking at some dyno sheets and it seems that the sweet spot of those engines comes up after a little drop on the curve at 4k rpm, then it goes all the way to the peak power at 7500rpm or so...
Keep the videos coming dude, thanks for taking the time on making them!
I had a Prelude Type-SH with a short ram and i can 100% agree with the numbers from a driving stand point. When im cruising around at 2-4 RPM, it felt slower than with the stock air box and filter but from 4000 RPM plus, it pulled a little harder. PS, Vtec comes on at around 5600 RPM. I was happy with the short ram though. It gave the engine a bit more sound for cheap and without installing a huge fart can
I think its still worth the added sound :)
Excellent video, I couldn't wait to see this one. I was surprised by the performance of the short ram intake. Will there be a cold air intake video?
You should try doing a test like this but substituting one of the headlights by the intake as some people do to see if that really improves anything. If it actually is worth sacrificing a headlight for the intake tube
Testing headers next would be interesting.
The cheapest short ram intake for an Integra is to remove the air box lid. The filter is round so its pretty much the same thing. Sounds good, too!
Interesting results. My SRI had improved my overall power-band, but mostly my low and mid.
TheFlacker99 (Flak) Do you have some dyno sheets to check out?
Engineering Explained Yea, me and other peoples butt dynos. lol
One person is a stickler for mods, my father. He thought it wouldn't do a single thing and he had said "There is a definite improvement"
***** Good point. My father (again, a stickler for mods. The first time he had been in the car after my SRI as we were talking about it he had said "it won't help, it'll ruin performance") in fact ignored any sound difference it had made. You've got something better than a dyno chart; My father and his dissenting attitude towards mods lol.
Butt dyno doesn't mean shit. I don't care who's in the passenger/driver seat. The proof is in the numbers.
JettyLife23 How about an arse dyno?
These are some really good real world tests, dyno figures mean nothing to me as they give little indication of real world performance. I would be really interested to see what difference something like keeping your car well maintained can do. Correct tyre pressure, premium fuel, fresh oil, clean filters, spark plugs. etc.. just some ideas
With N/A cars heat issues are more prevalent as a turbo car has a intercooler cooling the air down. A intake on a turbo car really only lessens restriction with very minimal gains, and a tune is pretty much necessary to see anything. Plus turbo noise :p
Great video! Ya know, I wonder if an air duct for the SRI would increase performance at all (sucking in fresh air instead of hot air). Thanks for putting in the work for this video!
The result is exactly what i felt !
Great video I'd love to see a cai install soon and tests as well. :)
You're like the Brian cox of cars, keep up the good work man ;-)
Tom Street Powerful words, thanks!
I'm pretty sure if you put a Type R sticker on the SRI tube you will observe the HP increase claims. Even more so if the sticker placement is closer to the throttle body.
People will always try and defend the fact they spent a significant amount of money on an intake kit which they probably installed themselves. Fair play to Engineering Explained for actually running the numbers and doing a fair test. Of course the stock system is going to be better, it was developed to run with a stock engine as efficiently as possible, do you really think a design team is going to design a 'restrictive' system for an engine that needs to be as efficient as possible if all their problems can be solved with a simple bit of bent stainless steel, a pod filter and a few hose clamps.
Just my two cents, and great videos.
Surely this works better with a modified hood or something like a subaru hood with air going in or out of the engine bay.
Sir, you do to cars what I do to computers. Keep up the good work.
Excellent video
Pretty big difference in sound thought
Alright! Good control, and explainable stats. however, seeing as you tested this, and CAI in your integra, I believe a reasonable sequel to these tests is a HOT air intake.
Thanks for the detailed info, you just saved me some time and money. :)
You should do a test on mighty car mods video on the cooler spray for an intercooler, it'll be interesting to see the results! Engineering Explained
Bottom like stick with stock don’t waste ur money unless u racing 😂 👍 great vid.
Well that's cool, if I'm driving normally I don't mind mid-range power loss, then when I want to race around just drop the gear
miss this format
Next upgrade will be trying to get cold air into the intake? A heat shield maybe? Should be a very cheap upgrade.
That integra must have a special gearbox, 3nd gear must be like vtec or something lol
TheLukey21 3rd*
rafael guzman In the vid it says 3nd not 3rd he was mocking him for that
Late reply but the gsr and type r only had vtec this is the gs which has the same engine in the ls
532233308 fam he’s making a joke about a typo in the video lol
nice video as always
You have to re-tune your engine after installing any of the intakes to have a more complete opinion about what works and what's not and what are the gains...
You should have conducted a T test between the means to calculate whether there was a statistical significance using a p value of .05
Very educational. Thanks alot
U need to let the ecu adjust the mixture air/fuel since u are modifieing the intake, once u let the ecu adjust, the different will increase.. =)
If you have more air and don't add more fuel the your car may lean out due to the lack of fuel that is needed.
Jesus Rosales He thinks he knows... lol
+Edwin Aristigueta Im not an expert on ECUs, however Im pretty sure modern ECUs can and will adjust the a/f ratio instantly. Because air pressure is constantly changing, so the car has to be able to adjust to the natural changes in air flow.
+Nick Palaroan This is actually not true. Depending on how much we're talking about here. If the ECU can adjust a/f ratio, then we wouldn't need to go get a tune. Let's say for example the stock car comes 13.1 a/f ratio. You add intake, header, exhaust. If the ECU adjusts, then you should still be at 13.1 a/f ratio and not lean out. But the modifications would cause you to lean out at wide open throttle. I can monitor the engine with my hondata kpro ecu.
+A Little Bit of Everything I disagree, the ecm simply has a programmed map of what air/fuel and ignition timing it requires at X rpm. It decides how much fuel it needs by the air mass sensor and adjust accordingly in the matter of milliseconds. It also detects if it is running lean or rich by the o2 sensor and adjust according to that as well. You require a tune to change the air/fuel mix and more importantly to change the ignition timing. Just because the engine can adjust, doesn't mean the programming was good to begin with or had performance in mind. Most stock ecm's were designed to run very "safe", low knock etc.. It also had 87 octane in mind. Yes it can detect knock and adjust, but again was the programmed map designed to maximize performance..
It's quite possible that this particular engine was already receiving about as much air as it could given the other limiting factors (throttle body size, potentially leakage in cylinders etc.). I do not recall if this car has aftermarket exhaust from the exhaust manifold, which could also be a limiting factor if not.
It loses in low rpm and gains in high rpm makes perfect sense in low rpm it's drawing air from engine bay which it's not hooked to the ducting to get air flow like the stock filter but in high rpm it's telling sucking in air which it is doing better cause the filter is less restricted by the box
Must review and test throttle body spacer.
I got one for my LS. It was okay. Still bought a cold air system.
Paying for the sound! :]
so at 3:00 you answered my question you did not allow time for heat soak to go away next time wait a half hour to a hour in between both tests it doesnt matter if 1 or 2c changes that much temp doesnt affect power heat soak on the engine from multiple runs over and over does tho
It would be beneficial if you added a hood scoop or other cold air inlet on the hood to truly get the most out of the short ram intake. By allowing colder air from outside the car a more direct path to the intake you can increase power. Also if you do a modification like this you can pressurize the system by segregating the intake from the rest of the engine bay and directly connecting the intake to the hood inlet. But this kind of intake would have to be optimised for specific engine and aspiration type, so it is a modification you might want to consider if you ever decide to get a custom aftermarket carbon fiber or fiberglass hood later in the series.
SRIs are better for fuel economy because the warmer air gives more complete combustion, and the shorter air path is more efficient. It also sounds much better.
Every video I click suggests to me another video before it first.
I will secretly watch and skip the rest
Great video. You probably won't get bac to me, but here's my question: I have a 2015 toyota corolla S sedan, 1.8 ltr. 4 cyl. and I was thinking about installing (all at one time) a short ram, a borla cat back muffler and a chip tuner. That said, will the short ram work well in all bands if I do replace the back end with the borla straight-thru exhaust? If so, is this worth the $1k investment, or a waste of my time? Thank you sir! I'll seek out your reply.
Exhaust mods impact times . Some mods work better with additional exhaust mods
You're math is superb as always but this is one instance where I'd rather see a dyno.
Nice test. I wonder if the short ram could have a bigger effect on performance at higher speeds.
Thanks for the video now I know a cold air intake really doesn't make a difference to me
3nd gear
That vtec sound becomes better!
No vtec, just a stock b18b1.
Now I feel silly. But the noise does change at high rpm to that BAHHHH : )
Monkeyclub It does indeed!
This is exactly why I laugh at people who do a whole bunch of mods to their cars and don't bother to reflash the e.c.u. or install an aftermarket one. The computer is tuned to work with the stock parts so free flowing parts will cause a different fuel air reading in the computer. Sure it will try to compensate for the difference by adjusting the ratio, but it won't be able to tell that the parts are different so it won't take full advantage of them.
What about a catback system but stock intake?
サントスシｮナサン
Same problem. Any time you change the flow characteristics through the engine you change what the computer is going to see as far as air/fuel ratio. The less mods you do, the less the difference will be; but it's still going to affect things. It's almost as bad as someone installing smaller jets in a carburetor and not bothering to adjust the fuel mix screws.
Depending on the mods you do and the way the computer tries to compensate you can cause either a rich or lean fuel ratio and destroy your engine or clog it with carbon.
Even something as simple as replacing the stock air box with a cone filter in a proper heat isolation housing can affect the ratio and lead to problems eventually.
ahh I see so your saying with all the bolt on mods, get the Ecu tuned or reflash to compensate for the mods bolted on the car? I'm kinda doing that lol. as much bolt ons and then tune the ecu/reflash. I don't want to do it one by one.
サントスシｮナサン
I would say do as much as you can to your engine before you get the tuning done. If you're going to increase your airflow with exhaust and intake with a bigger throttle body and injectors or any of those kinds of combination mods you'll want to get everything done at the same time to save time and effort.
With the things that the guy has done to his car in the videos I'd say he could get away with a simple hand held power programmer. If he was going to be trying to push more power out of it, I'd say take it to a tuning shop and have them load test it on a dyno to see what the ratios are like at different load/speed levels.
A car that can run well at idle and at high rpm could have a lean condition at normal driving rpm and melt pistons over time even without detonation. I've seen it first hand.
that makes sense. at the very least the vehicle computer doesn't know what it isn't told. most easy bolt on stuff doesn't have any way to tell the computer it is there. it would be neat if he keeps track of all this and when he is done with all these changes he does a set of tests. then goes to get a good tuning and does tests. that way it is cheaper on him and he shows how much of a difference tuning can do after enough upgrades