My Take on HEAVY Arrows
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- Опубліковано 19 сер 2022
- Might ruffle some feathers with this video, but I always try to shoot you guys straight with the information and experiences I've had over the years. This is just my opinion, I'm sure you have your own. Let the games begin
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@Inside_Out_Precision - Спорт
I'm not sold on the super heavy weight thing but definitely sold on a high quality, razor sharp, fixed blade broadhead.
I feel like part of it, at least for the Ranch Fairy, is what and how they're hunting. Hunting pigs out of a blind at distances of less than 40 yards makes heavier arrows more attractive in my opinion. Hunting elk or any other large game at distances possibly greater than 40 yards, the tradeoffs make less sense.
i don't listen to any guy who calls himself a fairy....
I drank the Kool aid for like a month. I bought some heavy arrows, 660 gr. and tested them out. If I misjudged by 3 yards I would be either missing or wounding an animal. That was enough for me to realize the heavy arrow crazy is ridiculous.
@@rattlingjunkie what distance? I shot 4 arrows, 525, 550,600,625 at 15,25,35yrds out to 25yrds they all hit at exactly the same height. At 35 there was about 3 inch difference between lightest and heaviest. Shooting at deer beyond 35yrds is a different can of worms lol
@@joshbriele325 well from 20 to 23 yards I saw a difference. I hunt with a 425 gr. arrow. I've got pass throughs on elk and moose here in Manitoba.
Ranch Fairy uses heavy arrows as a substitute for tuning and practicing. That’s why he is so disparaging toward the John Dudleys and Levi Morgan’s of the world, despite their recorded success and RFs opinion based claims.
Breath of fresh air. Like that this info is coming from some professional archers with a pool of hands on real life scenarios.
The “influencers” that are promoting shooting “as heavy as acceptable” also spend 90% talking about making your arrows fly straight. They spend more time promoting tuning than anything else. The scientific fact is that an arrow that is heavy and gets that weight from the front of the arrow has more speed at the target (relative to its start speed) than a flat arrow does. That’s more energy delivered to the target.
Yeah but energy doesn't kill animals, period. All you have with a 600gr arrow over a 440-500gr arrow is a worse trajectory. You're still not getting through a shoulder, and 440gr will still blow through an elk with good shot placement. Shoot 650gr if it makes you feel good, but you're not killing anything better than my 470gr setup
@@papajohnsy6659 haha. Ok bud. Energy doesn’t kill animals…..ffs. Try again. I mean, if you shoot a ping pong ball at an animal with the same energy as you do a bowling ball…only one is getting through, even if the ping pong ball gets there moderately faster.
Everyone that is so worried about trajectory can’t possibly have actually tried developing a scenario like they think will happen.
Your trajectory between 30 and 40 yards with a 480gr vs 580gr arrow is nearly negligible. If you are shooting at an animal 50 yards out, I hope to heaven you actually ranged that animal before you dared pull back. And let down when he moved so you could range again. Like a responsible adult that knows he’s so far out that animal won’t see him doing so. And there best be no trying to thread an arrow through brush like it’s TAC or something.
Energy isn’t everything either. If you throw a knife and a brick of the same weight at a target at the same speed, the knife is getting through way easier. Same is true when considering different types of knifes. If you use inefficient and weak broadheads (read: most of them), yeah putting it on a heavy arrow isn’t going to accomplish much. Use an efficient, strong and sharp one though, it’ll blow holes through anything you point it at.
Then comes the tuning of the arrow. Is it flying out of the bow straight? Are you shedding energy trying to correct its flight the whole way to the target? Is it precessing like a top because you can’t be bothered to nock-tune and just slapped some fletchings on the factory spine “alignment” sticker?
All of these factors affect how much energy your arrow has and what it does with that energy at the target. A heavy arrow fixes none of these issues, but if you address them all with a heavy arrow, it’ll blow holes through material a light arrow, similarly tuned, could barely get stuck in.
I just want to say thank you for making this video. I am a bow tech myself at a mid sized archery shop and we go through this conversation every day now with customers.
I’m pulling 65# and 28 inch draw and my arrows are 460 Easton Carbon Injexions and use mechanicals and shot through Hogs.. Deer.. and my Elk and Bear. I’m on year 45 as a bow hunter.
Love the thought provoking conversation over morning coffee. ❤️ All the pundits on this topic caveat their position on the same point: 'desired trajectory'. As the shooter, you have atleast 4 variables to define to establish the arrows flight you want. Your points about forgiveness are extremely important and I believe a well-informed shooter making a conscious decision about their setup and practicing with it will always have better results over the long run. Regardless of the arrow weight.
I’ve been shooting light arrows for 20+ years I moved up from low 400 grain to 520 grain this year, and I’m really happy with my new arrows. 75# bow @ 29” draw going 280fps. Not super heavy, they buck the wind well and I can still get 100 yards out of my sight tape.
You're in the sweet spot
Well said, I really appreciate you being willing to step out and continue to advance the sport of archery and not only educate the younger generation but also the older, in the end it is all our job to dispatch an animal as quickly as possible in the most humane way.
Thank you, we’ve been through this so many times , they are just rehashing old ideas that come and go, keep educating
Thank you for having the balls to say what you said , people come up with all things to hide bad shooting form and a bow not tuned !!!!!!!
Never been a fan of heavy arrows, 420-450 is my sweet spot. Went threw oryx at 63 yards with 448 gr arrow 28” draw
I definitely agree with this man! I'm running 425 had pass throughs last year on a moose at 63 yards and a elk at 32 yards, no issues at all, I think u hit the nail on the head a accurate,good tune and a great broadhead is what's going to kill animals!
I follow you from Chile. I think like you about this guys that shoot a really heavy arrow. For example The hunting public guys, they shoot like a 700 grains arros. When you see the video in slow, there you can see what bad fly this arrow, moving back a lot. Hasent enough punch the bow to move this weight. I shoot M;athews VXR31,5, 67# @28,5 with 460 grains and fix two blades broadheads. Enough for all animals.
Thank you for your opinion. I appreciate all of the different views on this subject. I’m experimenting now with a “heavy” arrow for me (540 gr. DL - 27.5”, DE - 60 lb.) so I’m interested in what penetration I get this year. You’re absolutely right tho, a correctly tuned bow is paramount.
I shot a moose at 63 yards with a 26.5" draw at 63 pounds, 425 gr. arrow for a complete pass through. Exodus Broadhead.
Seems awful heavy.
Ranch fairy is shooting pigs at 20 yards. He can shoot a 2000 grain arrow. I’d like to see him come out west with his setup. I’m sure he wouldn’t be near as heavy.
Great Video! I’m shooting a 65 LB. and 477 Gr arrow with 17% FOC @ 274 FPS and it works for me.
I appreciate including the DL/DW caveat. I'm a mid-west whitetail guy shooting 615gr arrows and pulling 70lbs over 31" (still going ~250fps). So I feel like my setup is a little on the heavy side, but not extreme given the circumstances.
Perfect explanation on this topic!!! Great job man.
I agree with your points. I've been practicing hard on my accuracy because I feel that if I can hit the spot I want the arrow won't matter nearly as much.
Thank you for making sense!! This is exactly the solution to the arrow weight and lethality equation. 470 grains with a sharp fixed blade broadhead and perfectly tuned bow (77lbs and 28.5” draw). I have a 100% pass through rate on whitetail and most of the time my arrow is buried in the dirt almost to the fletchings on the other side of them. That’s the last 13 deer I’ve shot. Biggest reason is shot placement and arrow flight.
I can get 140 yards out of my sight tape and then more aiming off my bubble. Pin gaps are nice and tight.
What now do you shoot champ ? Is it 80 dropped a bit or a 70 twisted up right ?
@@GodsLandDownUnder 75 pound draw mods on a Mathews VXR. It just maxes out at 77lbs with the limb bolts fully tightened down
This is the best video regarding this crazy topic. Thank You!!
Your welcome
I think you're spot on with this. I've been shooting 543 grain arrow and wasn't getting the distance out of my sight. I swapped back to my old arrows and immediately gained quite a bit on my sight. Not sure where my sweet spot is yet but your video sure made me think about things differently. I say to each his own. Whatever you prefer as far as arrow weight just make sure its an ethical shot.
My arrow is 536 and I can get 100 yards out of my sight. If you move you’re sight housing closer to your eye and get a bigger peep if needed it helps a ton.
Awesome advice as always
Thanks man!!
Cheers my fellow Western Oregonian!!! All good points and well reasoned. I personally draw 78# with a 29" draw and I run either a 450gr or 510gr with strictly fixed blade single bevel broadheads (in my experience out here, mechanicals are garbage and prone to failure). IMO FOC is important because of flight dynamics. Yes its become a very popular aspect of arrow building but it was ALWAYS important regardless of how long it took the masses to start fixating on it.
I’ve been asking this exact question for a while now! I want to see a video with actual testing comparing forgiveness of arrow trajectories at different weights.
Thank you for saying it out loud shot placement is No.1
I have shot deer with low poundage and low arrow weight (363 grain) and have had complete pass throughs. But and the big but is I practiced religiously and I was confident in my set up…. Oh and my bow was tuned to the t… shoot what you love and shoot it well. Excellent video love your content man
Excellent analysis.
A well tuned bow, shot placement, and a sharp Broadhead make the most difference. The Ashby reports were made to convince the “continent of Africa” to allow bow hunting. Todays archery equipment is totally different than before and much more advanced. If your shooting a slower bow and have a arrow that super heavy your basically lobbing a arrow and praying you know how much your animal is going to duck past 25 yards. There’s a fine line and balance you have to find within your own setup.
you hit the nail! ...your comment should be pinned!
The magnitude of the error margin due to a heaver and therefore slower arrow in combination with a ducking / moving game are somehow totally ignored by RF and his followers, despite the fact that the physics / math are straight forward here.
Your exactly right in my opinion. You definitely have to find a happy medium. I shoot 27in draw with a 452 gr and 13.5 FOC usually blow thru elk and deer 80 percent of the time
If you watch these heavy arrow “influencers” aka ranch fairy/ THP the most important factor is perfect arrow flight. Full stop you have to have perfect arrow flight, whether you’re shooting 400 or 800 grains. I think a lot of people if they actually sat down and had a conversation with him and or watched all of his stuff could see that. At the end of the day you want perfect arrow flight and a trajectory that is acceptable to you. Now if you like to shoot mechanicals I’m sure he ruffles your feathers but that’s another discussion.
I’ve had so many pass-thrus with deer with 400 grains, fixed and mechanicals at 60 lbs DW at 30” DL. Tune and well placed shots are totally key! I’ve lost count of the deer I’ve killed with that set-up and can honestly say I’ve never left one in the woods because I couldn’t find him.
I couldn’t agree more! I got caught in the heavy arrow fluff last season. 100% hurt my season and caused me to lose my biggest deer to date. Misjudged the yardage and wounded the deer. On top of that, my POS bow was losing poundage and I didn’t realize it because I was constantly playing with arrow weights.
Heavy arrows are okay if you’re a long DL, pulling heavy poundage, and shooting a 330+ IBO/ATA. Otherwise, keeping that speed up is very important. If you look at the math, most of your advantage is from the additional energy your bow can impart on the heavier arrow, which is not much.
You’re better off focusing on the most forgiving setup, which is a fast arrow with a good strong sharp broad head, be that of a fixed blade or the select few mechanicals, a well tuned bow, helical or offset fletchings, and honestly I think people overlook shooting feathers or FOBs. Drag on those tall stiff fletching passing through an animal can keep the arrow from coming out the other side.
For anyone curious what POS bow I had, it was a warrior river courage. I bought it from an online archery shop. Again, my dad tried to tell me it wouldn’t be a good bow for the price. He was right. I wish I would have listened. I was able to pick up a left over stock brand new PSE Drive LT for the same price from my local shop (sub $400)! Beyond happy with my new hunting bow. Very fast and smooth. Counting down the days to get a shot at a whitetail with it 😁
Oh boy!! Here we go😆🍿🍿🍿
It's all about flight, heavy arrow is no good if it's flying wonky,spot and stalk I use 420-450, tree stand 5-570 w/fixed blade broadhead, 29.5 draw 70lbs Mathews v3x, remember there's more to Ashby report than heavy arrows
Let’s see, I’ve shot 415gr for years and shot everything from Deer to Moose with pass throughs…I’m good with it! Fades come and go, just do you…🏹👊🏻🇺🇸
Ranch Fairy is exactly what he calls him self a "Fairy" ..experiment with in your budget and shoot what works best for you and your set up and what you can afford!
Most of all have fun! And enjoy what God gave us!
Happy hunting friends
Just came back from Maui and killed a buck with my 397 grain long range axis 400 spine with fixed grim reaper micro hades 3 blade. Shot it at 25 yards and 60 yards. Both arrows passed through. This was with my Mach 1 at 65 lbs at 26.5 inch draw length.
I started off my archery career last year with heavier set up bc I was scared of not passing through. This year I started off at 460. And shoot clean through my deer. Now I’m testing out a 400 grainer for white tail. Being able to shoot to 120 is fun too. Haven’t tested it on a animal yet. Hitting 298 fps at 407 grain at 28 inches
oooooo dont tell ranch fairy about this!!!! hahahahahah im 1000000% for finding the perfect setup for what youre hunting for. sharp broadheads do the work. im 28 inch draw, 70lbs, arrows are 485gr. taw. and that is my absolute sweeeeet spot.
Nailed it! Great video! Thanks for the great content!
I agree with you 100 percent. About time someone said something about this
I'm sick of not getting passthroughs. I only shoot 60# @ 28" so I went from a sub 400 GR to a 488 gr. @14% foc. Now I can't wait
Young guys shoot 70, why don’t we here tips for the guys shooting 60
Keep up the "how to" vids bud. There's a lot of us out here that don't have a local shop that can either tune a bow well or want to tune a bow. We're learning on the fly & soaking up the content!
I got in a civil discussion with a guy at the range on this the other day. The wife has a 23.75 draw and pulls 52 pounds. She has a Nevada bull elk tag this year. I have her using a 408 grain arrows. The guy was telling me she needs to be using 500 grains plus. Her arrow as it is only going 218 FPS and 42 KE using a calculator a 500 grain arrow would be going with roughly 187 FPS and 39 KE.
I can agree with your experience and i can agree with the RF 12 steps. They are both correct. One thing a lot of people are forgetting is where were we at when the RF started calling out the lighter arrows are better and then the mechanical broadheads failures. But your right, technically per RF my set up 12yrs ago should not have worked. 27" DL, 65 lbs DW and my 368gr XT Hunter should not of passed thru the elk I shot. However, i used a 100 g Slick Trick standard and the blades are all screwed up(no structural integrity). It is a learning curve for everyone.
Actually, he says he builds a Plan B arrow. Animals move. Plan A is broadside rib cage shot.
Pretty much the same conclusion I reached when switching my arrow setup from a Carbon Express Maxima Red SD 350 (spine of 330) to a Black Eagle Rampage 300 spine to pair with my new PSE Levitate. The Maxima Reds are a great arrow, but with my 31 inch draw/60 lb. draw weight and 175 grains up front, total arrow weight was 540 grains with a lighted nock; and I just wasn't comfortable with my pin gaps/ arrow drop beyond 40 yards. My new arrow setup should come in around 480 grains with a lighted nock. I got pass-throughs on the two deer I took with the Maxima Reds, I expect the same with the Rampage arrows if given the opportunity.
Truth!...Thank you!!!
437g total weight RIP TKOs. 150g up front. 14.8% FOC
Thanks for your content buddy. Which vanes do you use for hunting?
I think the perfect arrow for whitetail sized game is 480-520. I’m at 27.5” and 70 pounds shooting 510 grains. Tuning and a good broadhead is key however.
Completely agree.
I think if you are hunting pigs over a feeder at 20 yards and that’s the only distance you have to worry about, heavy up if that’s your thing.
Any other kind of hunting a well tuned bow and a “normal” arrow will work (and has worked) very well.
Hey man, love this channel and your take on setups and gear, always realistic and practical. Wanted to ask what weight arrow youd think would be average for a 28' draw on my Hoyt RX7 at 62-64lb?
I have a 440rg setup (272fps) with a 125gr tip plus 53 gr insert or a 415gr setup (286fps) with a 100gr tip and 53gr insert. Was shooting the 125s and now thinking of changing to 100gr tips/heads
the first criteria you have to comply with is the 5 gr per pound rule (other wise you start dry firing your bow)....hence your min arrow weight is 310 grain ....from there on it is all about what you want to use it for (3D, target shooting, inside ...outside ....hunting from a blind, big game ....small game etc.) ...there is no "average" arrow weight that suits all applications ....
@@WM-jy9dz Thanks...yes I agree...My primary is hunting in South Africa - Plains game mostly (Deer size and slightly smaller or big as a Kudu... Had good success with 440gr @60lb but want a flatter arrow flight do dropping the 25gr off the front. Have a 15% FOC
Great video! Bow tune, arrow flight and arrow tip design to maximize the use of the potential energy going through in my case an elk. I agree when well placed arrows hit their mark pass thru's are a given. I think there is adequate testing to back up that single bevel tonto tipped arrows with 50 lb-sec of momentum you will get penetration through an elk shoulder blade. I think planning/hunting for less than optimal hits is relevant. Once that arrow leaves the bow animals do things unexpected like a step putting that big blade in the way.
All I can add to this is data. I have a 26.5" draw shoot between 58 &60 lbs. With this and a 384 grain arrow I've been blessed to shoot over 200 whitetail. I'm off 9 weeks every fall and hunt 4 states. With the exception of shooting straight down into the spine I blow right through the deer. I can't speak of larger game like Elk dream hunt one day. However it doesn't take much to kill a deer. Also for those say prepare to hit the shoulder I say why in 38 years of bow hunting I've never hit the onside shoulder. Can't for the life of me understand why people aim so close to it. Plenty of vitals behind it.
Well said ! 👊🏹
Thank you for the reassurance that 11% foc is suffice! My current bow setup for a short draw is 26" @ 40#. My current arrow setup weighs 385gr with 8.8% foc and I saw the wind beat it up 😔Once I build up strength to 45#, I'll add 25gr to my broadhead and then I'll be at 12.1% foc. I was worried that still wouldn't be enough yet it sounds like I'll have enough momentum, speed, and flat-ish flight path.
I agree heavily with this (pun kinda intended) I have killed now 12 bulls in 14 years and shot through them all out to 62 yards. So much comes into play with penetration.
1)momentum yes
2) tuned bow yes
3) broadhead (cut on contact, diameter ect.) Yes
4) arrow diameter yes
5) SHOT PLACEMENT. YES. MOST IMPORTANT
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE VEDIO
What"s your draw #, total arrow weight & broadhead for your 12 Bulls?
Spot on! Amen!
I agree with this. However, there are certain spots where short shots are certain, and quartering to angle is likely. I want the heavy arrow punch for that situation only. I have a 3 pin slider - i carry 3 600 grain arrows with a small fixed blade, and 3 420 grain arrows with the same heads. the 20 yard pin produces identical impacts with both weight arrows. The 30 and 40 yard pins are set for the 600 grain trajectory, and the top pin and slider is set for the lighter arrow out to 100 yards. The areas I use the heavy arrow are terrain funnels with 30 yard max shots. In open fields and longer shots I use the lighter, faster arrow. Works great for me. To be fair, I'm shooting 64 lbs at 31.5" draw, so even my 600 grain arrows are at 250 fps.
Great video. Yeah there are tradeoffs in archery. I pull 29” on a Mathews at 70# with Easton Axis 5mm @503 grains. I use fixed broadheads. I shoot mid 270s. I guess based on this video I’m out of spec. When I shot lighter Gold Tip X Hunters I had terrible issues with the arrows breaking after arrowing a whitetail. With my existing setup my only issue is I blast so hard without breaking and go deep into the ground. If not Easton Axis then what arrow should I shoot to get into the Inside Out Precision spec??
In your opinion, do you consider 10 grains per pound arrows as heavy or extremely heavy? Or is it consider right in the middle?
I am running a 30.5 inch arrow around 600 grains is that in your scale? I looked at the math like you were saying and I'm coming out about the same kinetic energy either way but I wanted a little higher foc more than a ton of weight
Well said.
What arrow weight would you recommend for 33 inch draw pulling 75 lbs?
I shoot 70lbs with a 570 grain arrow and still can range to 80 yards. But i do enjoy shooting my target arrows that are 368 grains and being able to range to 150 yards.
Is 253 fps a good enough speed or should I go lighter than 715 grains? I will say you are 100% right about tuning your bow (and your arrows). If it makes you feel better I shoot 450 grains out of my target set up. 👍
That's for you to decide. But you will suffer from all the negatives he Mentioned in the video. Get a 475-500 grain arrow and I bet you will be happier in the end.
Although if you are only taking 25 yard shots, that heavy arrow is probably great
Most people shoot for 270-290 FPS. The general rule of thumb is 280 FPS. The reasoning is it can be harder to broadhead tune above these speeds. Therefore, if you want the most forgiveness in the overall package you should drop weight and increase speed. If you’re an east coast whitetail hunter who never shoots past 20 yards it’s not a big deal. But who wants to be a white tail hunter 😂
As Ashby says: use the heaviest arrow that you can with a trajectory that is acceptable to you.
That's all that needs to be said.
And yes, forgiveness is the right word, not accuracy.
Accuracy comes from the archer; forgiveness comes from the equipment including arrows. 👍👍👍
Dude. Thank you.
You're spot on I try to explain this to guys on Facebook I'm a 28.5 drawlengh shooting a 28in Fmjs 340s at 469grs 66.3lbs at 283fps out of a Vertix there's a fine line in performance with speed and weight and speed lose and heavier arrows have a reverse effect unless you increase poundage into the system they need to experiment at the range but I'm happy with 83ft of energy st 66pds that will take anything In North America my opinion is heavy arrows are better for traditional shooters with finger shooting with less influence on the arrows for better recovery at much closer range 10 to 25yards maximum.
450 grains @ 70#, 29 inch draw. Never have lost an animal and have had blow throughs on every whitetail I have harvested. Only hunt whitetails and never shoot past 50 yards.
I’m right at 500 grain and making sure to keep broadheads sharp. My opinion is this weight works best with my bow, tune, with greatest amount of accuracy at my given ranges. This is something that everyone should play with, and find something that works best for them. I’m of the thought process that if it’s too light, the bow is wasting energy and creating noise as the arrow can’t absorb all of the bows energy. And if you go heavier than your bow can power, it ends up short on potential stored energy so you just run into a slow arrow with no trajectory.
Well put! My point exactly
I believe you are completely correct. I'll take a light fast arrow over a lead balloon arrow that looks like the golden arches any day. Accuracy is far more important than trying to put an arrow through a rock on the other side of the deer you are shooting at . I shoot grim reaper mechanical broadheads with close to ibo rated arrow weight (which is what bows are designed around) and pass through every deer I've shot since switching to grim reapers cause I lost the biggest buck of my life due to lack of penetration with a rage broadhead. Example, I've blown through deer with 348 grain arrow with grim reaper mechanical only shooting 57 pounds. Shot placement and speed =Accuracy. Take a sloppy shot get sloppy results , heavy arrows only reduce accuracy. Happy hunting and God bless
Each to their own I suppose, totally agree with your theory and as well the ashby theory has been proven, really come down to what works for the individual and the set-up used for the purpose also, spread da love mates, go hard and keep hammering from Australia 🇦🇺 down under under 😉.
So I have a 30 inch draw length and I’m pulling 60 pounds what should be my arrow weight
Perfect Tune and 450 arrow with fixed bland will kill anything.
I have never NOT had a pass through on an animal with my 505’s. I may have a draw of:
31”@80lb but one of the fun things about archery is shooting long distance.
Why's he got to bring the whisker biscuit into this?! Lol
Nailed it… I blew completely through an elk last year with a 420 grain arrow… as the great Rut Daniels would say… “didn’t go 20!”
Elite Kure at 30.25 is inches at 90 let off. 550 grain arrow shot the same out to 25 yards then dropped off a bit. saddle hunter. BLEW through the shoulder of a deer i shot that was quartering to with Tooth of the arrow EX broadheads vented. Missed an 8 pointer that was probably about 30 yards as he was walking and finally stopped on a hard quartering away shot. smacked him in the rear thigh when if i was 6 inches higher woulda smoked him.. sure he lived as we tracked him for a day. next season i will have a new bow, slower than my kure with a 460 grain arrow. hoping to have a flatter trajectory with a slower drop off at range. Ranch fairy is right, but only at close range.
I agree with what you're saying; however, I feel like Dr. Ashby and RF are "misunderstood". The report is listed in the order of importance. They are preaching on:
1. Structural Integrity of the arrow (as a whole).
2. Perfect Arrow Flight.
3. ....and so on ......
RF often says structural integrity and perfect arrow flight is a must. He also talks a lot about shot placement in the vital V.
As for Dr. Ashby, he went full length on how to achieve perfect arrow flight. He tuned his arrows exactly the way you described it on one of your videos, Bare Shaft Tuning 2.0. The only difference is that Dr. Ashby was doing it for traditional bow. But his and your methods are exactly the same. He cut the shaft little by little to find the correct spine. And so on and so forth until the perfect arrow flight is achieved.
People on both camps (light and heavy) often only pick and choose what they "like" to hear without grasping the whole message they're (Dr. Ashby & RF) trying to convey; in this case, it's arrow weight.
As for me, I put emphasis on:
1. Structural Integrity of the arrow (as a whole)
2. Perfect Arrow Flight.
3. Practice practice practice (I am one of those who shoots between 500 and 1000 arrows a week).
4. My arrow setup will depend on what and where I'll be hunting.
5. Actually go OUT THERE and HUNT.
Happy hunting y'all!
Hi there. I use an elite enkore at 70 pounds and 27.5 inch draw. What weight would you suggest.
Like 440-460
@@InsideOutPrecision thanks. I asked too soon. You shared that later in the clip. I went out and had a few shots. I’m with you, my bow even seems to like that weight arrow. It just seems to fly right. The heavier ones over 500gn nose dive. The lighter arrow shoots like it’s on a string line and hits hard but I wouldn’t risk that lite in anything other than rabbit size animals.
I agree with you 100%
What is super heavy arrows - 600 plus grains? Depends on what you are hunting and distance. If I want to shoot a 2000lb eland or giraffe or buff at 20m - I would want more weight. A small animal like impala can be lighter. Perfect arrow flight means accuracy.
🙌
I agree that tuning is the most important and that you can get to heavy but the heavy arrows do maintain they’re velocity better than light arrows. I had bad experience with light arrows with expandables ,and good, but the bad was unexplainable. And the heavier I’ve got the better performance I’ve got and I’ve slowly made my way to 535 which I’ve had good experiences with it through whitetail shoulder blades. But like you said the most important thing is the arrow tuned and a good broadhead. I also disagree that short/light draw should shoot lighter arrows
And the heavy air await works man it's been working for the turn of time think about it we never knew back in the day when you'll shoot aluminum arrows you'll shoot Is 56 or 700 grains
Shoulder blade you can break for sure, ball joint of the shoulder is a lottery ticket. John Dudley posted that one picture where he blew apart shoulder joint of an elk on the opposite side with a Rage. Also that one Mathews engineer who gave interview not sure where said bone breaking is mostly about broadhead design and kinetic energy available. Single bevel with tanto tip will do better job also with light arrow but maybe don't try it with 50# 25" draw. Anyways, often animals come towards you so that quartering to shot does happen and then you need to hug the bones pretty close. Now IF the tool to make those shots work is 600gr arrow then so be it, but I think 450gr and right broadhead is enough for a deer.. moose maybe not. Tree stand pretty much eliminates need to break bones ever
I agree 100 percent.
I couldn't agree more with this! I'm a 440gr-480gr guy! I'd rather keep my speed and flat trajectory! Speed kills!
I try an build for a speed of around 280fps. I want the balance mentioned in the video. As you decrease speed the drop is not a 1-1 comparison. The difference in arc from an arrow going 300 vs an arrow going 280 is definitely not the same as the arc between an arrow going 280 vs an arrow going 260 even though the difference between the two sets of arrows is the same. I get that momentum drastically increases when you add weight however putting it into practical situations you start to realize the sacrifice in speed might not be worth it. I have no experience shooting through large or hard targets however I’ve seen a 450 grain arrow that I was worried wouldn’t have the penetration ability zoom through a deer and fly 30 yards into a mount of dirt. In my opinion if you truly worry about penetration your broad head choice matters more than your arrow choice.
Please do a more in depth video on this. Coming into my first hunting year and I’m looking now into hunting arrows and broadheads.
Your a bit behind to be looking into it unless you’re starting for next year.
Need to be practicing months in advance
@@bigwestreviews4933 that’s depressing. Should I just stay as close to my practice setup as possible?
Yes. You’ll need time to adjust and learn the new arrows in broad heads. Get a razor sharp Broadhead on you current setup for this year.
@@ulyssesrosario2082 thanks I will
@@robharnish1836 it depends upon when your season is and how much time and ability to fix things. It happens to everyone though. At my local range I ran into 3 guys who tried to just pull out their bow from last year or just bought a used bow and slap on broadheads for a hunt in 10 days. There were pretty frustrated when their broadheads were 6” away from their field points at 20 yards. Long story short, they aren’t hunting ethically this year.
If you can just put broadheads on your target arrows then will be a huge head start. If it’s going to possibly break or not penetrate your target animal then you don’t have a choice and have to switch. I use one set of arrows year round just to avoid this transition. Yes, I’m not as good of a target archer but I’m a way better hunter.
Either way you go with arrows, spend lots of time ensuring your broadheads fly correctly. Don’t be like the guys I talked about earlier and have broadheads grouping 6” from your field points and think you can just hold your pin 6” off. It will also speed up the process if your bow is paper tuned before shooting broadheads.
You need to determine what you consider an ethical shooting ability BEFORE leaving for the hunt. In the moment you’ll be hyped up and have questionable judgment. Everyone’s is different and I don’t believe anyone is truly correct. My standard is shooting arrows within a 2-3” group at my furthest hunting range with broadheads under all conditions after 3 consecutive practice sessions. The consectutive sessions is important for consistency. For example, I can shoot an Elk easily at 60 yards. However, I know I struggle 1 out of every 5 shots or so when shooting very up hill so I limit myself to 50 yards on drastic uphill shots. You won’t know those limits unless you practice realistic hunting shots.
Sounds about right.
A ton of this heavy arrow stuff is about selling something new also. One needs to know their arrows trajectory to whatever range. Especially with fixed pins. Whatever your poundage and draw length build an arrow that has a decent flat trajectory. It’s ok if it’s borderline heavy but it DOES NOT have to be 500 grains. I’m 28” @ 60#’s shooting a 407 grain hunting arrow total weight. At 264 fps I get pass thru on deer so easy. Fixed 2 & 3 blade heads only. And I know my arrows trajectory exactly to 60 yards. People need to shoot at horizontal lines, not stupid circles, enough shots at multiple yardages to KNOW how to read their fixed pins especially. Just because you have a slider sight does not mean you will have time to adjust it. It’s just like knowing your bullet trajectory and what hash mark to use in that expensive rifle scope.
The heavy side isn't what I was considered with when I started to play with front weight. I was after accuracy and as a guy with a 32in dl I found the sweet spot to be 626gr at 80lb, 296fps. it shoots bulletholes from 7m to 18m.
What bow you shooting? I've got a 33in draw but nowhere near them speeds with that arrow weight
Apa black mamba 33,draw set at 32in 79 lb. They have other models that have your draw length
@@Nurquhart88 ok I just talked with another guy the other day shooting the same setup. Not going to lie I definitely want to try one lol. Thanks for the reply
@@TheOKfisherman that was me haha. Just check your two profiles
@@Nurquhart88 lol right on.
In the field initial velocity and flat arrow trajectory is accuracy. Wind is real. Animal reaction is real. Off yardage is real. Shot placement and getting the right opportunity is tough but extremely important. Heavy arrows don’t help with deer. Bear bait and dog hunting is a different story. Moose hunting is completely different. Close range traditional archery is also different. Your arrow setup really depends on what your bow setup and hunting style is and where you hunt. Broadhead design is more important than arrow weight.
That's right where I'm at, I'm pulling 26.5" at 70lbs and my arrows are 438gr going around 270fps
I’m a 28” draw 70lb guy and shoot 550gr hunting arrows. There are definitely pros and cons to heavy and light. The way I hunt, a 30 yard shot would be a long shot so the drop of the arrow isn’t nearly as big of a deal as it would be if I were hunting wide open fields. Either way, whatever you want to shoot just make sure that your bow is tuned and your arrows are flying perfectly with broadheads and fieldpoints
I’m planning on shooting 525 gr this year. Got a 300 spine arrow with 220 gr up front, u think the spine is stiff enough
Depends on arrow length more than anything. 300 should be in that rough ballpark of where I’d sit with 525 total and 220 up front but if you’re a longer draw you may need to bump up to a 250 spine. Arrow spine is measured at one specific length of arrow. If you are shooting your arrow shorter than that rated length your arrow will shoot like a heavier spine than what it is rated at. Think of how much force it takes to bent a stick if it is 6” long vs if it were 6’ long. The longer an object is the easier it will bend
I shoot 30.5" 80# with a 570gr arrow going 292fps. Did not penetrate a cows shoulder last season. I'm dropping too 520 this year and dropping some draw weight and won't lose any momentum but I'll be more accurate