Yeah, I think this is more confusing than helpful unfortunately. There are ways to simplify all of that, and still be secure. Also I agree with previous comments, you'd defiantly want your pack tethered to you at least. If the anchor fails and you have to self arrest again your pack could be above your reach. I understand that in the moment a lot of things can happen, so you've got to be 110% before you ever try this style of climbing. Once that adrenalin starts pumping it's easy to make mistakes, so keeping it Barney simple can save your life.
Demo is great! Minor complaint is that Darrell keeps saying "Muntner" when he means "Munter" as in Munter Hitch. But very effective demo. I learned a few tips even though I have climbed for six decades.
Doug, really glad you liked the video and thanks for saying so. And sorry about the whole Muntner vers Munter thing. It's just one of those words I can't say right! LOL
A lot of mumbo jumbo with gear but the person who has fallen into the crevasse is still in the crevasse and will most likely freeze there. Also, it is much more likely that the lead person on the rope would fall into a crevasse. The self arrest doesn't work very well if you are pulled forward onto your belly and are being pulled face first toward a crevasse.
Chad, Thanks for the comment. It is a double cord. That gives you the strength you would want since your partner will be literally hanging by this connection part of the time. Also the problem with just using a clove is that it would create a closed system and we always teach open systems. Closed really limits your options as things change. Open keeps all your options, well, open. LOL
I'm grateful for the video, as it made me think. There's a lot of ways to do this. you basically need to get your partner's weight off of you and onto an anchor, and then set up a hauling system. Pre-sling a prussik (which the presenter did) below your tie in point because if it's a really extreme situation you might not have the luxury of deciding your masterpoint position with multiple bomber stake placements and you may have to go off less gear than you would like. If you're unprepared you may have to do it off of your axe. A very bad situation to be in regardless. I've been partway down a crevasse. Be safe.
Good video, good concepts of anchors. Well made video. I won't bother you too much about your pronunciation. We Canadians have our own funny oddities. Keep up the good work.
At 8:15 when you tie the munter with the leg prusik, is that a dbl cord munter or is it single strand. Would a clove hitch work as well, and be neater, and not needing the mule and the biner? Just thinking haven't tested but I am curious. :)
Chad Boulanger Chad, sorry for the slow reply. You are correct, it is a double cord munter. You could do it with a single strand but the double is twice as strong. The issue with a clove is that it turns this into a closed system. Meaning you can't lower out of it if you needed to. A munter-mule is just the ticket here. Simply a munter with a slip knot behind it clipped off with a bener so the slip-knot can't be pulled accidentally. If you play with it of have more thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Thanks
La técnica y la idea pueden ser muy buenas, pero el cámara ha escogido unos ángulos que no permiten ver la ejecución en su totalidad. Saludos desde España
she would be sooooo cold, setting up the anchor should take less than 3 min like i dont even know how he could take this long, and he just pounded pickets in, u can easily do a two deadman anchor in 3 min
The load is still above your feet so you "could" be pulled up and off the snow and fall backwards. The axe helps to keep you low and balanced. Not a huge deal on low angle but if there was a good slope heading into a fall then you might need as much as you can get
Great video. Highly informative. Just one thing: WTF is a "Muntner" knot? Is that some American Hillbilly way of saying Munter knot? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munter_hitch
MazamasICS I am joking of course! No big deal. It is also called the " Italian Hitch" by some, and others say to "Never call it it the 'Italian Hitch!'" Climbers! What a bunch of pricks! Great videos BTW.
Seems like an old technique for 2023. Couldn’t you just load them directly right onto a microtraxion on the master point? You can back that up with a knot while you check on the climber. If they need to be hauled the microtrax is already in place so you just need to add a prussik on the weighted line and then 2:1 is ready to go.
I was thinking something similar. Attach one of the pre-rigged prussiks to the master point and load the system onto it. Back it up with a clove hitch on another biner at the master point but leave enough slack to undo the knot and add a microtraxion. Then go set-up a prussik and pulley on the load strand. I think the trickiest part is securing the load strand below the knot and untying the knot. Using the pre-rigged prussik makes it much simpler.
Awful. There are a plethora of ways to skin a cat. Although the idea of this system is generally good, there are several catastrophic failures along the way. Would you really trust your life --and your partners life-- to a driven picket with no resistance? And then you're going to add more force by hauling off said picket? You pushed that thing in with your finger tips while laying on your belly. Not a suitable anchor. Furthermore, you clipped the shelf of a figure-8 and loaded it without clipping a biner below the 8. You claimed that you prefer this knot because it's easy to untie-- it'll also roll-out on itself. An overhand is the proper knot here. You were still clipped to the rope and function as a back-up. However, if the 8 were to fail, you wouldn't be able to manage the shock load you'd be subjected to. When you released the Munter on the rope, you loaded the friction hitch below your tie-in point. And then you dropped the rope. At this point, your partner is hanging solely on the friction hitch. Where's the back-up? It's a MUNTER! Not a "muntner." If you're going to be instructing --and posting videos-- please learn the correct pronunciation of basic knots and hitches.
+mush pup He's taking more time so he can show us what he's doing. In a real scenario, he would just do it, and it would take a fraction of the time. And "just pulling" is a terrible idea, and what you are _not_ supposed to do when you rescue someone, because it's a ton of work lifting a climber and their gear, maybe 200-250 pounds, out of a crevasse. And when you inevitably drop the rope because your grip strength gives out from pulling that much weight with no backup, you just dropped your climber again, and with no anchor whatsoever, you probably just pulled yourself down the mountain too, and now both people are stuck/dead. Congrats. Also, how does a climber die of hypothermia after three minutes? Falling makes them colder somehow? Like, did they fall in a lake at the top of a mountain?
Whole video is 11 min. 11 min for a single person rescue while instructing is pretty damn good. When we practice with a dead man we say anything under 15 is acceptable. only way you are hauling someone before 3 minutes is if you already had everything built. Also have you tried pulling someone with a pack out of something 1:1 at altitude in soft snow? not gonna work too well :)
cold is a real issue to deal with but messing up the haul to go faster or tiring to pull them out 1:1 and failing is more dangerous. Part of the responsibility is the fallen climber doping their pack and getting layers. Also if they are able they should be getting ready to be hauled or climb out, if they cant climb they should keep moving to stay warm. Also the person doing the hauling should check with the climber to see if they are ok, if not they should rap down and assist once everything is anchored. Yes if the climber gets knocked out and is in just a base layer (bad idea in glaciated terrain) you dropping them is not going to help anymore than taking 10 minutes to build a system to hold them.
Scott Groeschl I just think it's faster to get the fallen climber on something do a quick bounce test then remove yourself add some more pro and do a 3:1, with a system like that it should only take about 2 minutes to put in the first piece of pro at most and another four minutes to add the next piece and the rigging
The problem? The first problem is that it is virtually guaranteed that with a two person rope team the person trying to arrest the fall will be dragged into the crevasse as well. This is a proven fact. It is actually safer not to rope up on a glacier if you are only two people. The second problem is that it is virtually impossible for one person to haul another out of a crevasse by themselves if the person who has fallen is incapable of helping.
Brake knots help hold a fall, and drop a loop of fresh rope, set up a 5:1 or 6:1 with a prepared and padded crevasse lip and you have a shot at rescuing your friend solo.
Wow 😅 this video is no good instruction! This has to be taken from you tube for safety reasons! 1: did you just took of your backpack full of equipment? And threw it above you??? You will never be able to reach it anymore in case the anchor fails… when you are more pulled away from it… 2: untying yourself from the rope is simply NEVER DONE!!! If the anchor does not hold, bye bye partner… 3: the snow looks very loose… the snowpicks will never hold… even for a demonstration, it should be build to hold!
People don't say 'Falling'. They say 'Fucccccccccccck!'
gamesbok lol
"falling" is a climbing "command". Just like "on belay" or "climbing!"
haha
Yeah, I think this is more confusing than helpful unfortunately. There are ways to simplify all of that, and still be secure. Also I agree with previous comments, you'd defiantly want your pack tethered to you at least. If the anchor fails and you have to self arrest again your pack could be above your reach. I understand that in the moment a lot of things can happen, so you've got to be 110% before you ever try this style of climbing. Once that adrenalin starts pumping it's easy to make mistakes, so keeping it Barney simple can save your life.
Demo is great! Minor complaint is that Darrell keeps saying "Muntner" when he means "Munter" as in Munter Hitch. But very effective demo. I learned a few tips even though I have climbed for six decades.
Doug, really glad you liked the video and thanks for saying so.
And sorry about the whole Muntner vers Munter thing. It's just one of those words I can't say right! LOL
A lot of mumbo jumbo with gear but the person who has fallen into the crevasse is still in the crevasse and will most likely freeze there. Also, it is much more likely that the lead person on the rope would fall into a crevasse. The self arrest doesn't work very well if you are pulled forward onto your belly and are being pulled face first toward a crevasse.
Wouldn't you want to be attached to your pack at all times, in case you get pulled in also? Your pack is no good if you are down inside the crevasse.
Great video, no faf either, just gets right to it.
1:28 made me laugh. Good video though. I was curious about this.
Ah thinking about it, and the clove hitch would only pull on one end of the prusik making it unreliable. But the munter is it dbl cord?
Chad, Thanks for the comment. It is a double cord. That gives you the strength you would want since your partner will be literally hanging by this connection part of the time.
Also the problem with just using a clove is that it would create a closed system and we always teach open systems. Closed really limits your options as things change. Open keeps all your options, well, open. LOL
I'm grateful for the video, as it made me think. There's a lot of ways to do this. you basically need to get your partner's weight off of you and onto an anchor, and then set up a hauling system. Pre-sling a prussik (which the presenter did) below your tie in point because if it's a really extreme situation you might not have the luxury of deciding your masterpoint position with multiple bomber stake placements and you may have to go off less gear than you would like. If you're unprepared you may have to do it off of your axe. A very bad situation to be in regardless. I've been partway down a crevasse. Be safe.
She went plopz---p-l-o-p-z-z-z😆☕🥁
Good video, good concepts of anchors. Well made video. I won't bother you too much about your pronunciation. We Canadians have our own funny oddities. Keep up the good work.
:)
How long is the rope you are using?
At 8:15 when you tie the munter with the leg prusik, is that a dbl cord munter or is it single strand. Would a clove hitch work as well, and be neater, and not needing the mule and the biner? Just thinking haven't tested but I am curious. :)
Chad Boulanger Chad, sorry for the slow reply. You are correct, it is a double cord munter. You could do it with a single strand but the double is twice as strong. The issue with a clove is that it turns this into a closed system. Meaning you can't lower out of it if you needed to. A munter-mule is just the ticket here. Simply a munter with a slip knot behind it clipped off with a bener so the slip-knot can't be pulled accidentally. If you play with it of have more thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Thanks
La técnica y la idea pueden ser muy buenas, pero el cámara ha escogido unos ángulos que no permiten ver la ejecución en su totalidad.
Saludos desde España
So. The next thing. Well, you'd better be organized.
Your really really good
Shane K Thanks!
MUNTNER WHAAAAAAAAAAT !!!!!
Tests have been done and the picket or spike should be at 25°.
Just curious - why didn't you just do a deadman's?
holy crap, just anchor yourself to the deadman's, do a clove, and belay her up. I'm watching and getting frustrated. Less equipment, and less time.
Belay her up?! How exactly does that work if she's hanging on the rope with nothing to hold on to?
they're climbing, i hope she has an ice axe
she would be sooooo cold, setting up the anchor should take less than 3 min like i dont even know how he could take this long, and he just pounded pickets in, u can easily do a two deadman anchor in 3 min
Why do you hold yourself with your arm if you clearly don't need it in that situation and your feet are enough?
The load is still above your feet so you "could" be pulled up and off the snow and fall backwards. The axe helps to keep you low and balanced. Not a huge deal on low angle but if there was a good slope heading into a fall then you might need as much as you can get
Great video. Highly informative.
Just one thing: WTF is a "Muntner" knot? Is that some American Hillbilly way of saying Munter knot?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munter_hitch
Thanks David. I don't know if it's the way any Hillbillys say it or not, but it's just one of those words that I can't seem to say right! LOL
MazamasICS I am joking of course! No big deal. It is also called the " Italian Hitch" by some, and others say to "Never call it it the 'Italian Hitch!'" Climbers! What a bunch of pricks!
Great videos BTW.
2:57, MUNter, not MUTner; (couldn't find 'mutner' when I looked it up)
Haha got a good laugh out of 1:28
Bare hands in snow for an emergency situation is asking for troubles.
jajajajajajajajajaaajajajaja
not correct... you are staying offrope anyway so that's bad ...
:-), :-)
Seems like an old technique for 2023. Couldn’t you just load them directly right onto a microtraxion on the master point? You can back that up with a knot while you check on the climber. If they need to be hauled the microtrax is already in place so you just need to add a prussik on the weighted line and then 2:1 is ready to go.
I was thinking something similar. Attach one of the pre-rigged prussiks to the master point and load the system onto it. Back it up with a clove hitch on another biner at the master point but leave enough slack to undo the knot and add a microtraxion. Then go set-up a prussik and pulley on the load strand. I think the trickiest part is securing the load strand below the knot and untying the knot. Using the pre-rigged prussik makes it much simpler.
Awful. There are a plethora of ways to skin a cat. Although the idea of this system is generally good, there are several catastrophic failures along the way.
Would you really trust your life --and your partners life-- to a driven picket with no resistance? And then you're going to add more force by hauling off said picket? You pushed that thing in with your finger tips while laying on your belly. Not a suitable anchor.
Furthermore, you clipped the shelf of a figure-8 and loaded it without clipping a biner below the 8. You claimed that you prefer this knot because it's easy to untie-- it'll also roll-out on itself. An overhand is the proper knot here. You were still clipped to the rope and function as a back-up. However, if the 8 were to fail, you wouldn't be able to manage the shock load you'd be subjected to.
When you released the Munter on the rope, you loaded the friction hitch below your tie-in point. And then you dropped the rope. At this point, your partner is hanging solely on the friction hitch. Where's the back-up?
It's a MUNTER! Not a "muntner." If you're going to be instructing --and posting videos-- please learn the correct pronunciation of basic knots and hitches.
This is horrifically bad. You should really take this video down
Poco interessante come simulazione buona giornata
climber dies of hypothermia at 3:10. next time try just pulling.
+mush pup He's taking more time so he can show us what he's doing. In a real scenario, he would just do it, and it would take a fraction of the time. And "just pulling" is a terrible idea, and what you are _not_ supposed to do when you rescue someone, because it's a ton of work lifting a climber and their gear, maybe 200-250 pounds, out of a crevasse. And when you inevitably drop the rope because your grip strength gives out from pulling that much weight with no backup, you just dropped your climber again, and with no anchor whatsoever, you probably just pulled yourself down the mountain too, and now both people are stuck/dead. Congrats.
Also, how does a climber die of hypothermia after three minutes? Falling makes them colder somehow? Like, did they fall in a lake at the top of a mountain?
you sir have obviously never been in a crevase, no sun , deep dark hole made of iceeee, hypothermia sets in in about ten minutes in there
Whole video is 11 min. 11 min for a single person rescue while instructing is pretty damn good. When we practice with a dead man we say anything under 15 is acceptable. only way you are hauling someone before 3 minutes is if you already had everything built. Also have you tried pulling someone with a pack out of something 1:1 at altitude in soft snow? not gonna work too well :)
cold is a real issue to deal with but messing up the haul to go faster or tiring to pull them out 1:1 and failing is more dangerous. Part of the responsibility is the fallen climber doping their pack and getting layers. Also if they are able they should be getting ready to be hauled or climb out, if they cant climb they should keep moving to stay warm. Also the person doing the hauling should check with the climber to see if they are ok, if not they should rap down and assist once everything is anchored. Yes if the climber gets knocked out and is in just a base layer (bad idea in glaciated terrain) you dropping them is not going to help anymore than taking 10 minutes to build a system to hold them.
Scott Groeschl I just think it's faster to get the fallen climber on something do a quick bounce test then remove yourself add some more pro and do a 3:1, with a system like that it should only take about 2 minutes to put in the first piece of pro at most and another four minutes to add the next piece and the rigging
Let me guess...
You never searched for this?
troppo lento
The problem? The first problem is that it is virtually guaranteed that with a two person rope team the person trying to arrest the fall will be dragged into the crevasse as well. This is a proven fact. It is actually safer not to rope up on a glacier if you are only two people. The second problem is that it is virtually impossible for one person to haul another out of a crevasse by themselves if the person who has fallen is incapable of helping.
Brake knots help hold a fall, and drop a loop of fresh rope, set up a 5:1 or 6:1 with a prepared and padded crevasse lip and you have a shot at rescuing your friend solo.
Wow 😅 this video is no good instruction! This has to be taken from you tube for safety reasons!
1: did you just took of your backpack full of equipment? And threw it above you??? You will never be able to reach it anymore in case the anchor fails… when you are more pulled away from it…
2: untying yourself from the rope is simply NEVER DONE!!! If the anchor does not hold, bye bye partner…
3: the snow looks very loose… the snowpicks will never hold… even for a demonstration, it should be build to hold!