The level of commitment to make a good video is outstanding. Actually abbing into a crevasse, insane, love it! Really simple and informative video. Saw a few tips I'd not seen before which I really liked. Thanks a lot for the hard work and effort
Outstanding video. Yes, there are many ways to do this, but he shows one that is simple, reasonably clean, and most importantly, one you’re probably able to do with the gear that you have on hand, and not anything specialized like an ascender.
Glenn Johnson No need to try to make comments on my mental capabilities here in Glenn. I’ve been mountaineering on glaciers for 25 years and an instructor for most of those, and no one in the Pacific Northwest would ever carry a specialized handled ascender as part of normal glacier kit. A micro ascender such as wild country ropeman maybe. Please share with us your vast experience in glacier travel.
@Glenn Johnson what is it with Americans and our inability to listen to and learn from guides and others who are actually knowledgeable about a subject?
Brilliant technique, mate! Thanks for the tutorial. I especially love that you're using the tube's guide mode for the ascent, which makes an auto blocking device like Petzl's Micro Traxion redundant. Cool!
This is good youtube, thanks for speeding up the parts that would otherwise really draw out the video. Awesome info, your knowledge is going to save my life some day. My goal is to summit Mt. Baker in Washington, but I've only hiked mountains under 2,000m. This Glacier trekking looks incredible!
This video starts on step 2: rescuing a girl from a crevasse, but I am still trying to figure out the step 1: how to obtain a girl. is there a how to video for that?
I used the same method this year as shown on video to check help my friend and pass him some snacks - nicely backup, needs a little of practice however it is very safe and easy to doublecheck the whole system. Not the fastest method to do but untill you trust your anchor stuck into the snow nothing bad can happen here. I like that. 10/10 for the video - it looks so simple when you are doing it :)
Years ago-≈2011-2012 after the family moved in-while hiking/exploring the new 79 acre property near the creek and fell in up to my chest in a crevasse-like crack covered/hidden by a weed ‘snowbridge’-I called it a ‘crevasse’ because that’s what it reminded me of. Right after I fell in I was to scared to move-didn’t want to fall in deeper. The creek was up and this man was trying to get to and help me,but he couldn’t. I told Nana-my dog-to go get help. She started to go up the hill and went back to the house to get help-almost like Lassie. I prayed for the Lord to help and protect me and pulled myself out. She was a good dog.
It just created more questions for me: how is it that Jon could manage a gender reassignment and a name change while dangling from a rope, but couldn't throw a couple prusiks on and climb out? This is more confusing than the one where he was belaying himself from the ground while stuck on a climb.
I agree a brilliant system but rather complicated I think. It also relies on having a Reverso (or a BD Guide ATC) which I typically don't carry when traveling on glaciers. And even if you do have one of these devises, you should know how to make do without one encase you drop it, lose it or forget it! A simpler system I've used is to have two prusiks rigged for ascending (upper one to the harness, lower one for the foot that's backed upped to the harness) before rappelling into the crevasse. I then rappel on a munter hitch clipped directly to my belay loop with the two prusiks ABOVE the munter. With this system, you can stop and ascend at anytime without having to do any re-rigging. The biggest issue I see with this system, is that the prusiks can grip the rope and stop you during the rappel, but you can step up on the foot prusik, reset the munter and release the prusiks if needed. I don't mean to be overly critical here, but this seems like a good place to share ideas. And if anyone sees an issue with the system I've described, I would like to hear it.
Thanks for the great video! Jeff (or others on here with knowledge) - regarding changing the position of the rappel device (the red biner clip at the 3m15s mark) - is this necessary to get the rappel device to not slip, or is it more for convenience? In other words, if you kept the redirect (on your prusik) and left the rappel device clipped in to the yellow biner, would this also be effective?
Hi Ryan, I'm not sure if I fully understand the set-up that you are suggesting, but on your question, the shift that Jeff shows to add and lock the red biner from the "ear" of the Reverso to his belay loop is to make the Reverso work in its guide mode and this in turn allows the yellow biner to lock the rope and not slip as he ascends. This is a similar concept as if you were belaying from the top in a multipitch with an Reverso. So short answer is that the method that is shown is to allow the Reverso to lock, and is not just for convenience. Hope this helps and have fun out there!
Very interesting. But I would like to see the instruction told and shown at a much slower pace and with close-ups as I tend to be more visual adapted... and a bit dense.
I recommend watching a different video if you're a total beginner to crevasse rescue. This is not a good video for complete beginners -- you'll be confused, try to learn techniques that are more complex than the average person will need on most days and worst of all: likely forget how it works while under duress. If you already know all of the basics, however, this video is absolutely amazing to expand your skills. Jeff is a legend and explains clearly.
Yah but what if the lip is an overhang? You then can't push away with your feet and the rope pinches down on the lip so that you can't slide your friction hitch past the pinch point.
You would save a few steps if you abseiled with the prusik above your device and had it straight off your belay loop. Then you just have to flip the belay device in guide mode clipping the pivot attachment point into the original the belay loop and unclipping the original karabiner from the belay loop.bela
Even though I learned from your well done video I propose a more simple version for rappelling and reascending: You place the 3rd hand (with a overhand knot and a carabiner) above the tube you fix directly at your harness. In order to ascend you girth your footloop into the 3rd hand and click in your carabiner as you did. Then you step into the footloop; you change the tube into the autoblocking mode and start ascending after having installed your backup.
Before you rap to your partner, there are several alternative, prefatory & spin-off scenarios, like voice & rope communications, enable self-rescue, and unconscious or injured partner, that could be mentioned in passing during this kind of tutorial. PS: see Preparing the lip for crevasse rescue: ua-cam.com/video/GhBOnQHeGR0/v-deo.html
It is indeed a 3:1. Notice that he pulls about 3' of rope through the upper carabiner (an arm length) each step but only moves up about 1'. Then he moves the upper carabiner up so it takes 2' out and he can pull 3' again and get another foot. In other words, the upper piece (the carabiner in the friction hitch) moves.
That's a 3-1. I'm not a guide but I study aerospace engineering if it counts as reference. However I've tested this system with a marked rope and for ever 3 unit you pull down (referred to you: for example your harness or other fixed reference point) 1 unit will be retried through the guide atc.
It's a 2:1 with a redirect. He's essentially in a drop loop and with the load (himself) being on a pulley/ATC, he's simply unable to get a 3:1 system. If you use the "counting tensions" method from his pulling hand it becomes obvious: 1 "tension" in hand, 1 comes back down, leaving 2 on his friction hitch. The 1 that came down has 1 going up again, leaving 2 at the load (his belay loop). The 1 that goes up meets the 2 that's at his hitch, witch makes it 3 going to the anchor. So to sum up, he's got 1 in hand, 2 at the load and 3 at the anchor - it's an obvious sign that you have a redirect system if the anchor is holding more "tensions" (3) than are being pulled (2). What's confusing people here is that in a 3:1 system, there's also only one pulley/ATC/carabiner moving. However, the location of the pulley/ATC makes all the difference. If it's at the load (like here), you generally have a system with even numbers (2:1, 4:1, 6:1 etc) while if it's at the anchor, you have systems with odd numbers (the most common being 3:1, of course).
@@pipore22 Sorry, but that's just wrong. It's a 2:1 with a redirect. The distances you notice with your eyes can be misleading due to a number of factors, such as the dynamic lengthening of the rope. He's essentially in a drop loop and with the load (himself) being on a pulley/ATC, he's simply unable to get a 3:1 system. If you use the "counting tensions" method (google it if you're not familiar with it) from his pulling hand it becomes obvious: 1 "tension" in hand, 1 comes back down, leaving 2 on his friction hitch. The 1 that came down has 1 going up again, leaving 2 at the load (his belay loop). The 1 that goes up meets the 2 that's at his hitch, witch makes it 3 going to the anchor. So to sum up, he's got 1 in hand, 2 at the load and 3 at the anchor - it's an obvious sign that you have a redirect system if the anchor is holding more "tensions" (3) than are being pulled (2). What's confusing people here is that in a 3:1 system, there's also only one pulley/ATC/carabiner moving. However, the location of the pulley/ATC makes all the difference. If it's at the load (like here), you generally have a system with even numbers (2:1, 4:1, 6:1 etc) while if it's at the anchor, you have systems with odd numbers (the most common being 3:1, of course).
@@MrOteron I would like to inform you that you are wrong. It is indeed a 3:1. You need to be looking at this from the point of reference from the climber's perspective. That person has three ropes that all need to be reduced in order for him to move up one unit. The "moving pulley" from the reference of the climber is the upper non-locker. The rope in his hand is part of the pulley system. If you want to use the T-method (counting tensions), then there is one rope in his hand, a second coming down into his ATC and a third going up. When he applies force with his hand, all three strands are supporthing his load, hence a 3:1. If someone else were doing the pulling, for example if the victim in the crevasse was pulling, then there would only be two strands pulling on the climber, and that would definitely make it a 2:1 drop loop (as the 3rd leg would not be contributing, and would result in extra force on the victim), but as the climber is hauling himself, that changes the point of reference and makes it a 3:1.
WHAT IF you used an french blocking knot in the top for climbing up the rope: you re-rig for rapell, and then just pull the French blocking knot down to weigh the system. Would be impossible with a prussik, right?
I think it's a cheap way to help someone else but a semi-automatic belay device like a (Petzl) GriGri, (Petzl) Stop, (Petzl) I'D-S. (Edelrid) Eddy, (Beal) Birdie, (Wildcountry) Revo, (Camp) Matik, (Petzl) I'D Evac, (Mad Rock) Lifeguard is 50x faster because you can rappel and ascend without changing the position of the carabiner.
I feel like this dude could solve all the world's problems with ropes
rope and a couple lockers and your golden
He's like the Bob Ross of ice climbing
Really tho the "we're just gonna find a way to back up this system" bit should be a code of life
@@ericw7608 equivalent to duck tape with climbing………
The level of commitment to make a good video is outstanding.
Actually abbing into a crevasse, insane, love it!
Really simple and informative video. Saw a few tips I'd not seen before which I really liked.
Thanks a lot for the hard work and effort
Outstanding video. Yes, there are many ways to do this, but he shows one that is simple, reasonably clean, and most importantly, one you’re probably able to do with the gear that you have on hand, and not anything specialized like an ascender.
Glenn Johnson No need to try to make comments on my mental capabilities here in Glenn. I’ve been mountaineering on glaciers for 25 years and an instructor for most of those, and no one in the Pacific Northwest would ever carry a specialized handled ascender as part of normal glacier kit. A micro ascender such as wild country ropeman maybe. Please share with us your vast experience in glacier travel.
@Glenn Johnson what is it with Americans and our inability to listen to and learn from guides and others who are actually knowledgeable about a subject?
Brilliant technique, mate! Thanks for the tutorial. I especially love that you're using the tube's guide mode for the ascent, which makes an auto blocking device like Petzl's Micro Traxion redundant. Cool!
This is good youtube, thanks for speeding up the parts that would otherwise really draw out the video. Awesome info, your knowledge is going to save my life some day. My goal is to summit Mt. Baker in Washington, but I've only hiked mountains under 2,000m. This Glacier trekking looks incredible!
I am climbing Mt Baker on summer solstice in about a week! That's why I'm brushing up on technique. Good luck to you!
I am amazed, how you made a pulley from just ropes and carabiners, fantastic!!
*mechanical advantage
This video starts on step 2: rescuing a girl from a crevasse, but I am still trying to figure out the step 1: how to obtain a girl. is there a how to video for that?
I think they just found her in a crevasse.
I'd suggest just checking all of them.
@@richardschofield2201 ok, wish me luck!
the other option is to leave emily in the crevasse
I think that's what happened to John
😂
I used the same method this year as shown on video to check help my friend and pass him some snacks - nicely backup, needs a little of practice however it is very safe and easy to doublecheck the whole system. Not the fastest method to do but untill you trust your anchor stuck into the snow nothing bad can happen here. I like that. 10/10 for the video - it looks so simple when you are doing it :)
Love the idea of the redirect on the footloop prussik.
Years ago-≈2011-2012 after the family moved in-while hiking/exploring the new 79 acre property near the creek and fell in up to my chest in a crevasse-like crack covered/hidden by a weed ‘snowbridge’-I called it a ‘crevasse’ because that’s what it reminded me of. Right after I fell in I was to scared to move-didn’t want to fall in deeper. The creek was up and this man was trying to get to and help me,but he couldn’t. I told Nana-my dog-to go get help. She started to go up the hill and went back to the house to get help-almost like Lassie. I prayed for the Lord to help and protect me and pulled myself out. She was a good dog.
Never seen anyone using an atc to ascend I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the video!
Awesome vid! I haven’t ran across many ice/crevasse related rope vids so this is great!
Great !!!!! A very simple but great skill!!
Tank you for sharing!!
Why someone would dislike . Thanks alot for putting this video really really helpful.
misclicks. they put the buttons too close together. a certain number of dislikes per likes are expected due to misclicks.
Super cool and useful video, thanks!
OH okay this video addressed some of my questions such as "where did John go" and "what do we do if they are unconscious and can't grab the rope"
It just created more questions for me: how is it that Jon could manage a gender reassignment and a name change while dangling from a rope, but couldn't throw a couple prusiks on and climb out? This is more confusing than the one where he was belaying himself from the ground while stuck on a climb.
Nice one. Thx for sharing.
I agree a brilliant system but rather complicated I think. It also relies on having a Reverso (or a BD Guide ATC) which I typically don't carry when traveling on glaciers. And even if you do have one of these devises, you should know how to make do without one encase you drop it, lose it or forget it! A simpler system I've used is to have two prusiks rigged for ascending (upper one to the harness, lower one for the foot that's backed upped to the harness) before rappelling into the crevasse. I then rappel on a munter hitch clipped directly to my belay loop with the two prusiks ABOVE the munter. With this system, you can stop and ascend at anytime without having to do any re-rigging. The biggest issue I see with this system, is that the prusiks can grip the rope and stop you during the rappel, but you can step up on the foot prusik, reset the munter and release the prusiks if needed. I don't mean to be overly critical here, but this seems like a good place to share ideas. And if anyone sees an issue with the system I've described, I would like to hear it.
Is there a video of this technique? I'm having a hard time visualizing your setup.
He seems pretty supportive of John’s right to self identify too. Bravo
LOL!
Great video! Would love to see one for a rock face where you cannot soften the 90 degree edge. Mainly the ascent transition over the 90...
Awesome video
This guy is a pro
Great technique!
Thanks for the great video! Jeff (or others on here with knowledge) - regarding changing the position of the rappel device (the red biner clip at the 3m15s mark) - is this necessary to get the rappel device to not slip, or is it more for convenience? In other words, if you kept the redirect (on your prusik) and left the rappel device clipped in to the yellow biner, would this also be effective?
No it wouldn’t! Then you would have to loosen the prusik every time
Hi Ryan, I'm not sure if I fully understand the set-up that you are suggesting, but on your question, the shift that Jeff shows to add and lock the red biner from the "ear" of the Reverso to his belay loop is to make the Reverso work in its guide mode and this in turn allows the yellow biner to lock the rope and not slip as he ascends. This is a similar concept as if you were belaying from the top in a multipitch with an Reverso. So short answer is that the method that is shown is to allow the Reverso to lock, and is not just for convenience. Hope this helps and have fun out there!
could you not also replace the prussik with a tibloc on this system? seems like that would be better for biting icier rope
So to clarify, should rope teams carry an additional rope for this technique, or can it be accomplished with the main rope?
Main rope
Is there a good book on rope work out there?
Very interesting. But I would like to see the instruction told and shown at a much slower pace and with close-ups as I tend to be more visual adapted... and a bit dense.
Watch it a bunch of times. I have and it has helped me a lot
I recommend watching a different video if you're a total beginner to crevasse rescue. This is not a good video for complete beginners -- you'll be confused, try to learn techniques that are more complex than the average person will need on most days and worst of all: likely forget how it works while under duress. If you already know all of the basics, however, this video is absolutely amazing to expand your skills. Jeff is a legend and explains clearly.
@@rajanlliw
I am nowhere near a beginner but always eager to see if there is a newer or better way to old techniques.
Yah but what if the lip is an overhang? You then can't push away with your feet and the rope pinches down on the lip so that you can't slide your friction hitch past the pinch point.
You would save a few steps if you abseiled with the prusik above your device and had it straight off your belay loop. Then you just have to flip the belay device in guide mode clipping the pivot attachment point into the original the belay loop and unclipping the original karabiner from the belay loop.bela
Even though I learned from your well done video I propose a more simple version for rappelling and reascending: You place the 3rd hand (with a overhand knot and a carabiner) above the tube you fix directly at your harness. In order to ascend you girth your footloop into the 3rd hand and click in your carabiner as you did. Then you step into the footloop; you change the tube into the autoblocking mode and start ascending after having installed your backup.
thenk for this
So, how did you get the girl out of there?
What rope is that in the videos
3:59 a little?
Before you rap to your partner, there are several alternative, prefatory & spin-off scenarios, like voice & rope communications, enable self-rescue, and unconscious or injured partner, that could be mentioned in passing during this kind of tutorial.
PS: see Preparing the lip for crevasse rescue: ua-cam.com/video/GhBOnQHeGR0/v-deo.html
Is the clove hitch backup necessary when you already have a friction hitch plus the reverso in block mode?
Probably not but it never hurts to have an extra backup.
It should be a conscientious trade-off of time & increased complexity for a tiny bit more safety.
The friction hitch is not connected to his arness so it doesn't count as a security
is that really a 3:1? or is it just a redirect. i thought in order to add mechanical advantage the piece had to move?
It is indeed a 3:1. Notice that he pulls about 3' of rope through the upper carabiner (an arm length) each step but only moves up about 1'. Then he moves the upper carabiner up so it takes 2' out and he can pull 3' again and get another foot. In other words, the upper piece (the carabiner in the friction hitch) moves.
That's a 3-1. I'm not a guide but I study aerospace engineering if it counts as reference.
However I've tested this system with a marked rope and for ever 3 unit you pull down (referred to you: for example your harness or other fixed reference point) 1 unit will be retried through the guide atc.
It's a 2:1 with a redirect. He's essentially in a drop loop and with the load (himself) being on a pulley/ATC, he's simply unable to get a 3:1 system. If you use the "counting tensions" method from his pulling hand it becomes obvious: 1 "tension" in hand, 1 comes back down, leaving 2 on his friction hitch. The 1 that came down has 1 going up again, leaving 2 at the load (his belay loop). The 1 that goes up meets the 2 that's at his hitch, witch makes it 3 going to the anchor. So to sum up, he's got 1 in hand, 2 at the load and 3 at the anchor - it's an obvious sign that you have a redirect system if the anchor is holding more "tensions" (3) than are being pulled (2).
What's confusing people here is that in a 3:1 system, there's also only one pulley/ATC/carabiner moving. However, the location of the pulley/ATC makes all the difference. If it's at the load (like here), you generally have a system with even numbers (2:1, 4:1, 6:1 etc) while if it's at the anchor, you have systems with odd numbers (the most common being 3:1, of course).
@@pipore22 Sorry, but that's just wrong. It's a 2:1 with a redirect. The distances you notice with your eyes can be misleading due to a number of factors, such as the dynamic lengthening of the rope. He's essentially in a drop loop and with the load (himself) being on a pulley/ATC, he's simply unable to get a 3:1 system. If you use the "counting tensions" method (google it if you're not familiar with it) from his pulling hand it becomes obvious: 1 "tension" in hand, 1 comes back down, leaving 2 on his friction hitch. The 1 that came down has 1 going up again, leaving 2 at the load (his belay loop). The 1 that goes up meets the 2 that's at his hitch, witch makes it 3 going to the anchor. So to sum up, he's got 1 in hand, 2 at the load and 3 at the anchor - it's an obvious sign that you have a redirect system if the anchor is holding more "tensions" (3) than are being pulled (2).
What's confusing people here is that in a 3:1 system, there's also only one pulley/ATC/carabiner moving. However, the location of the pulley/ATC makes all the difference. If it's at the load (like here), you generally have a system with even numbers (2:1, 4:1, 6:1 etc) while if it's at the anchor, you have systems with odd numbers (the most common being 3:1, of course).
@@MrOteron I would like to inform you that you are wrong. It is indeed a 3:1. You need to be looking at this from the point of reference from the climber's perspective. That person has three ropes that all need to be reduced in order for him to move up one unit. The "moving pulley" from the reference of the climber is the upper non-locker. The rope in his hand is part of the pulley system.
If you want to use the T-method (counting tensions), then there is one rope in his hand, a second coming down into his ATC and a third going up. When he applies force with his hand, all three strands are supporthing his load, hence a 3:1.
If someone else were doing the pulling, for example if the victim in the crevasse was pulling, then there would only be two strands pulling on the climber, and that would definitely make it a 2:1 drop loop (as the 3rd leg would not be contributing, and would result in extra force on the victim), but as the climber is hauling himself, that changes the point of reference and makes it a 3:1.
There really is 100 ways to do this with all gear that is available
Super :-)
WHAT IF you used an french blocking knot in the top for climbing up the rope: you re-rig for rapell, and then just pull the French blocking knot down to weigh the system. Would be impossible with a prussik, right?
So God damn confusing
In the meantime person in the creavesse dies 😂
E
I think it's a cheap way to help someone else but a semi-automatic belay device like a
(Petzl) GriGri,
(Petzl) Stop,
(Petzl) I'D-S.
(Edelrid) Eddy,
(Beal) Birdie,
(Wildcountry) Revo,
(Camp) Matik,
(Petzl) I'D Evac,
(Mad Rock) Lifeguard
is 50x faster because you can rappel and ascend without changing the position of the carabiner.
are you usually strolling around the glaciers with Revo, Matik or Grigri on you? lol
Don't forget a Petzl Tibloc. It weighs almost next to nothing. A prusik loop, leg loop and couple biners can replace all that rigging.
I dont fully trust most of those devices on a wet and icey rope
A high speed, over complicated display of look at me trying to show you how clever I am.
Great video Thanks