Different Approaches To Boost [Underdrive, EQ & Two Amps!]
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Dan surprises Mick with three new ways to think about boosting your tone
Welcome to the show! Boost is an absolutely fundamental aspect of electric guitar tone. Whether you want to get louder or quieter; more distorted or less; whether you want to change EQ: you need to understand the concept of boost.
Now the usual approach is to add MORE. But as Dan demonstrates today, there are two other key ways to think about boost: it's unboost, basically. We explore that concept via volume level and EQ before getting to the fun bit: two amps!
Enjoy the show!
And please visit That Pedal Shop www.thatpedalshop.com/
Pedals used in this show
• The Gigrig Three2One
www.thegigrig.com/three2one
• Sonic Research ST-200 Turbo Tuner
Australia: bit.ly/2mR1s8c
• Walrus Audio 385 Overdrive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3tD2Eks
Australia: bit.ly/2fubkpp
USA: bit.ly/3Gs0yHB
• Keeley D&M Drive
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3ESje3L
Australia: bit.ly/2pUDUAE
USA: bit.ly/3ltKAoo
• Electro Harmonic Memory Man 1100-TT
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2WbQLhG
USA: imp.i114863.net/n1GO4R
• Carl Martin Headroom
www.carlmartin.com/headroom
• Lazy Bear Custom Volume Pot
www.lazy-bear.co.uk/
• Hamstead Zenith
UK & Europe: bit.ly/3wXTG0B
Australia: bit.ly/2RuvUJl
• The Gigrig G3
www.thegigrig.com/g3
Interesting Bits & Go-To Sections
0:00 Intro
1:19 Pedalboard reveal
2:05 Why are we doing this?
3:20 Boost One - Underdrive Underboost
8:00 Boost One with some extra overdrive
11:30 Boost Two - Reductive EQ
15:59 Boost Two with stacked ODs
18:30 A summary so far
20:55 Boost Three - Add Another Amp!
25:00 Switch the amps around?
32:30 Let’s turn the amps up a bit
Guitars in this video
• 1961 Fender Stratocaster - Mick’s video here: • Three New Strats For M...
• 1965 Fender Telecaster: • Pimp Your Vintage Guit...
• PRS DGT - Mick’s video here: • That Pedal Show - Our ...
Amps in this video
• Two Rock TS1 1x12 combo with TR1265B speaker
• Fender ’65 Deluxe Reverb with standard speaker
UK & Europe: bit.ly/2G9OnFJ
USA: imp.i114863.net/jWkERb
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Using a Deluxe Reverb as a boost pedal (for your Two Rock!) might be the most TPS thing ever. Living the dream, boys.
🤣😂
I'm a worship leader at a church. Sometimes we have a full band with two electrics, drum set, keys, etc. and sometimes we go just two acoustics and a cajon. When we move to acoustic sets, I ALWAYS tell the musicians, "Our dynamic ceiling is lower, so we need to lower our floor -- play LESS with fewer band members, not more." (In fairness, I tell a full band we need to play less too.) This episode made me think of that concept. If I love the big drive sound from my amp, I should lower the floor for my rhythm sound rather than try to push through the ceiling of an already-driving amp.
Another option I’ve been trying lately is to dial in a really fab sound (using all the drive and boost pedals needed) with the guitar volume on 6 or 7, and then just whacking it up to 10 for leads. This is harder to stay disciplined on when playing live with a band, because it’s easy / tempting to just turn the guitar up fully too soon, to keep up. So I’m trying to have the amp louder to start with, and then need to remember to sound check at volume in 6 so as not to scare everyone 😊
Niiiiice! Old school!
This has always been Alex Lifeson’s method for lead boost.
Exactly what I've done for years. IMO, it's the best way overall.
Only way I've ever done it...set a single sound (even if pedal assisted) dialled in for about 6, adjust tone and volume from there on guitar. No need to over complicate it in my experience 🤷♂️
It's the only way to go if you want ultimate control over your boosted sound/volume without having to rely on the sound guy turning you up at the right moment.
This is meant as the biggest of complements. These two guys are the Jacque Pepin and Julia Child of cooking guitar tones. Their rapport with one another is so refreshing to see. Always respectful, supportive, and truly enjoy each other’s company. This episode was amazing, and the end result was a delicious sonic stew. Dan, that last play out (and Mick balancing the amp tones), almost had me doing an Andy Timmons ugly cry. LOL
I may or may not have been working on something.....TPSerz lose their minds.
These episodes where Dan plays Mr. Wizard are my absolute favorite.
“All pedals off”, never a sentence you anticipate hearing on this channel! Well done chaps, interesting vid
This is crazy. I feel like I’m running a parallel path of discovery with you all. Yesterday I began using my GE-7 to pull midrange for this very reason as “boost 2”. I run two lower headroom amps and have been dabbling with how to better drive them. So cool!
A similar reductive thing I discovered a while back with a tweedy amp: I ran a treble boost into a 5 watt Gibson Skylark, a little amp that breaks up really lovely but also really early and small cab gets flubby fast. The treble boost made it louder AND cleaner/more sparkly.
This is vintage TPS: a seemingly simple topic addressed in unexpected ways. Dan looked pleased as punch with himself with those 1-3 boost options - and rightly so! I’ve been doing something similar lately in terms of getting a perfect lead tone from the amp/s first and then working backwards either with a boost below unity or removing mids for the rhythms sound using a pedal that has at least a 3-band EQ.
The adding and subtracting amps was super cool to hear, altho ifnive managed to sneak 2 amps into a gig, I’m using them both always on for wet/dry loveliness.
Great video chaps. The world is good when you make these.
IMO your best video to date. A simpleton's reply to your thesis would be, "Well, duh, just use the volume knob on yer guitar!" But there are some useful and novel ideas here (novel at least in the world of guitar signal paths, vs. recording and mixing signal paths), esp.: effectiveness of subtractive vs. additive EQ and the use of an "underdrive" pedal that can change the EQ (which rolling the gtr volume knob will not do) and the idea that adding anything to your signal (whether specific frequencies or overall volume) is difficult if not impossible at actual stage volumes (personally have experienced this regardless of amp size, from 15w tweed to 85-100 watts of 4x6L6)...and that adding a 2nd amplifier for "lead"/big sounds can actually work...i.e., if you want MORE, actually use MORE!
everytime micks picks up the DGT the tone is glorious... my god what a great sounding guitar.
So good to see the D&M Drive, as ever. It’s still one of my all-time favourite pedals. It never leaves my board!
I swear, the best videos you guys make are those where you have fun- no matter the subject/pedals- for example, at the 32:30 mark onwards.
Thank you! We love these ones the most too. They’re always the lowest views. Hahahaha!
I agree. If the views are indeed lower, it can't be because of a lack of engaging content. What does that leave? The title? The prospect that viewership goes up with comparisons of new pedals? (a GAS-related phenomenon?) TPS has never been a gimmicky place, but rather a place of integrity, solid information and fun. The guys genuinely want to help and enjoy doing that. Spread the love. What does rack up more views, anyway?
@ 12:00, very happy to see your DGT coming back out more often following the illustrious visit from Mr. PRS, Mick. Cheers!
These kinds of videos really make this channel you two stand out. Novel and creative ideas that help inspire the rest of us. I love it! Thanks
You guys have boosted my morning for sure. Great info Dan...easier to take something out than put it in. I follow your advice on setting up my amps religiously and great tone is always on hand. Many thanks 😊
One of the best sound i've heard from you guys (and i've heard plenty of great sounds on TPS in the last years), loved the show and the second amp as a boost is magic!
Thanks as always guys, best hour of my week. I got into this approach about a year ago when I temporarily decided I didn’t like my fuzz pedals anymore and just wanted amp overdrive. You can dial down the guitar volume and that works anywhere from great (50’s wired Gibson) to pretty good (Strat), but if you want a sculpted cleaner tone, you need an eq-based underdrive. I got the Mad Professor Evolution Orange Underdrive which is a one stop shop for the stuff you guys were experimenting with in this episode - leave the NMV amp set for your favorite overdrive tone then kick in the Underdrive for a gorgeous clean tone. Game changer although I eventually reconciled with my fuzz pedals too.
Excellent advice, guys! Really enjoying Dan’s jazz playing and the controlled feedback with the D&M drive too!
Y'all keep giving away my secrets I've been using for 30 years but can't articulate like you can HAHAHAHA love you guys
Brilliant presentation! Fantastic "lesson plan," tones and playing. I have also lately been shooting for more clarity in my tone because of your influence. Thank you and you are much appreciated.
I had to go back to your video on pedals for people who don't like pedals to get comfortable understanding the underdrive concept. Turns out your gear database search lets you search not just gear but applications for gear which is very nice thanks.
Frankly this episode feels a lot like Nolan's Tenet movie where I've got to watch it more than once to feel like I've seen it only once. But in recalling Scott Henderson's dog party era and thinking about his solos & songwriting, I think I can see now that working backwards not just forwards in general planning does make a lot of sense especially when you have a clear vision for what you want to achieve and you want to convey it consistently.
Great show today! Very interesting!!
That was awesome, thanks guys. I’ve also seen ppl use a volume pedal to fade in the second amp as well
About 2/3 of the way through, it suddenly hit me. Schwangri La is much akin to a tree fort. The boys are in that magical space, enthusiastically making up games, just as we all did in the forts of our youth. The banter sounds the same. It's just the best ever.
Sorry for such a late comment. In Seattle this week, so all discombobulated time-wise. But getting some much needed rest for my strained ears. I have been a bit confused with my rig recently but am cooking up a plan and hope to report back with good results in a week or two. Much love to you guys and your families. -G
Thanks guys great video! I may have to rewatch, I was daydreaming a lot about my own setup and how to apply this. Gained amp added in was magic. Happy weekend guys see you on Monday
SUCH a fun approach :) Good stuff!
Brilliant episode.
I've now setup my rig around subtractive effect addition thanks to you guys - what a paradigm shift lol. For it me it will mean a much more repeatable and consistent sound through the various levels of gain. Thanks SO MUCH for challenging traditional thinking!
Great informative video, as always, and food for thought. I'd been pondering the second amp option for some time and this is a timely lesson in just that!
Great episode!
Looking at taking a subtractive approach as opposed to completely additive is a technique that goes sorely unused for the most part.
Just like taking a "less gain, more volume" approach to drive pedals, it can be a less obvious but highly rewarding way of getting great sounds.
Keep up the amazing work, D&M.
These tweak as you go shows are my favorite.
Great video. This opens up different possibilities for using what gear you already have. I bet a lot of players haven't thought of the reverse boost method. I believe Jon Herington of Steely Dan uses an RC Booster the same way - crank amp, turn on RC booster to lower volume and adjust EQ (and even add gain at lower volume).
Great video. Very enlightening. Good to hear your suggestions on more ‘affordable’ amps too ! Happy New Year
Hace mas de dos años no los veia ... jeje han sido meses muy dificiles . Pero hoy vi otra vez tus videos por el algoritmo . Apesar de tener notify no salen... indudablemente han sido una guia gigantesca en mi ascenso musical que ha sido siempre gracias a sus videos y ascesorias . Mis mas grandes agradecimientos . Saludos desde Bogotá, colombia . Un abrazo amigos
I have really been struggling to get my lead tone together. This is a very interesting way of looking at things. Thanks guys!!
Great vid. Funny, I was just working on some Mike Campbell tones for a gig, and watching his rig rundown with the late and great Tom Petty. He uses his Fender Excelsior for his solo tones, while using a Princeton and '57 Deluxe dialed for his rhythm. Sounds very much like what Dan was talking about with the "magic amp settings". Thanks for breaking this down even more. Explains a lot of the why. Amazing info....really about letting the personality of an amp shine through...
Oh my god this concept is genius. It took a bit for me to get it, but by half way through I think I get what Dan is on about. One thing that strikes me as clever is that if you ask yourself, when do we want my guitar to sound it's "best" it's when we solo. But often we achieve a solo tone with a pedal, and sometimes that pedal carves out stuff from our amp that we wish was still there- be it high end, low-end, or just a sense of dynamics and clarity. With this approach your solo tone showcases your guitar and amp combo at its best, and compromises the sound quality (a bit) when we play rhythm stuff, which honestly makes so much sense! Man- I'm gonna rearrange my live board and give this a try!!! Thanks as always guys for a great show!
Yes! Nice one - have fun with it!
Absolutely fantastic, this is fascinating! You both played especially beautifully, it was palpable how comfortable you guys felt with these tones. I have a theory that there’s an aspect of “warming up” as a player while the sound is rolled back a little, getting acclimatised and growing in confidence before winding up to full power once you’re feeling ready. Maybe others have had a similar experience? Bravo guys! 👏
Yep we agree with that Rhys. Hope you’re well dood and thanks for the kind words!
Thank you, gentlemen! More food for thought!
Wow. It was really nice to hear the TS1 do its thing!
You need to sell advertising on that lick mick always plays !! It's happily been stuck in my head for hour's !!!
Great approaches! I usually use that ways with EQ.
Cheers leg entities,
I revisited Andy's (bless him) demo of the Benson Germanium Boost that is designed to eventually sag your signal... Great stuff and interesting approach
All the tones were delicious but adding in the two rock made me want to weep. Great show chaps!
All these years with one amp it looks like I’ve been doing it pretty close. Two amps would be a great luxury though. Great show! Thanks gents!
This sounds like step one of Dan’s journey to a using cranked amp with vol/tone controls and no pedals…you heard it here first!
This is almost exactly how I use the Empress Para EQ (mk1): set the input pad to -6 dB, then scoop frequencies out, and that's my "rhythm" sound. Bypass the pedal and you get a boost and more mids. Use the boost on the pedal (set to like, +20 db or something absurd) and you get the volume (and some clarity; with that much signal going out the mid cut is useful again).
I loved how suspenseful this episode was, in building up the reveal! Nice work keeping Mick guessing, Dan!
I love when you guys get all experimental!
Incredible playing in this video. I especially love the piece that starts at 26:55. FrusciDantesque.
Happy New Year guys 🤙
Award Session did this kind of thing a while ago with the Solo Booster pedal - which was essentially a passive volume pot in the FX loop. Great idea, set up your 'ideal' sound, then work backwards, rather than setting up a basic sound, and then boosting the teats off it!
Fascinating concept. More is less. Very cool👏
Great episode. J Mascis is also of that school of thoughts, that he has his Marshalls flat out and only removes overdrives/muffs that are setted bellow unity.
Another level can be Tone King Ironaman attenuator, that has footswitchable 3-6 dB jump.
Across both of my albums, (so far)I have recorded the guitar so it’s nice in my ears whilst playing and then eqed stuff out afterwards so that it works in the mix. I have never eqed stuff in.
Thanks guys.
Great video! Been doing this for a bit with my tweedish amp that are super rich in those vocal mids. Excellent for leads, can become too much for rhythm playing. Always used a simple eq, lately loving the empress paraeq tho for this and everything else in between. Havent had the luxury of the two amp rig live yet but hopefully soon!
For a while I was putting an attenuator pedal in the effects loop, which was on a footswitch and switching off the loop was my lead boost. Super easy, barely an inconvenience. Thanks.
Attenuators go between power amp and speaker.
What you have there is a volume knob
Im a pedal lover, but Ive always felt this way about drive pedals and boosts. I never want to mess with my level during the set, this is why I use a volume pedal after my drives
Two amps is always twice the fun.!!
Great episode of “That Amp Show!” 😜😉
I got inspired watching the video with Andy Timmins and how he uses his Blues Driver. I've been setting some of my boosts/ODs and preamp pedals at much higher volumes and gain levelthan I normally would use them, and cutting my guitar volume back. It fattens it up and makes it sound kind of like kicking on a compressor set low, but without the added compression.
Side note: I've been playing Strats for decades. Everytime I see someone that can play thumb over with ease, I curse my genes and their shorter stature. Especially being that I prefer my chunky 50s necks.
Props to Dan for the Santa disguise.
I bought one of these lazy bear attenuators last week, for a different purpose. There is also a foot switch controlled version if you aren’t using a switcher as a bypass.
Really interesting way of looking at boosting the guitar in the context of a band. The tones were killer today as higher volume usually equals "Better Tone". :) Dan "Thinking of adding a third amp." Need the best bandmates ever for that. My guys would be ready to kill me. Cheers!!
Guys, what you were demonstrating is what you might call subtractive boost. The removal of loading circuits increasing signal flow.
I love this episode. Occam's razor comes to mind.
I do something similar with my Marshall setup. I use the volume pedal at the front backed off to 9 for my clean sound and turn off to let Fuzz Face do its thing. However I have an overdrive afterwards, I see the way you are doing this with no push on the amp at all.
I like to set the EQ for the room with the amps set clean and set the delay and mod pedals. Then, with the mods & delays off I set the OD pedals to three diff "feels" (combination of EQ and OD settings). Then it's time for the boosts. If I determine a boost needs to stay on I adjust others to compliment. I go through this periodically at home just because I think it may sound better. A larger venue is less problematic than a small one due to the nearness of walls. My tolerance for stage volume (where I stand) is 87-95dB regardless of room size.
Darn you guys, darn you both to heck! You already cost me a fortune in pedals and now I will need to buy more amps ;-)
I love my pedals which combine a boost with modulation or delay. The preamp in my PastFX CE-1 warms up the mid-range in my AC15, and the MOSFET boost section of my Tech21 BoostDLA is so cool, instead of it being in front of the delay, like an Echoplex, it's post - delay and can bw used as a solo boost with delay. It can be set to give you the "lift" Dan talks about in the video - without drastically altering the character of the amp.
I use an SD-1 as an Underdrive.
Pretty sure I got the idea from you guys 😉
Nice!
Pauses video.
I was thinking about a cocked wah episode: with a wah, with a cocked wah pedal, with an eq pedal. Schenker, Bolan, Knopfler,etc,etc.
Restarts current video.
A homemade, footswitchable volume-pot-in-a-box-with-LED, placed after the delay in the effects loop of my JCM800 2204, makes a very practical ‘transparent solo boost’. Set to exactly 3dB cut when engaged, and bypassed when the LED is on. Whatever’s going on into the preamp, that volume bump is always available with very little change in tone or character whether I’m also front-end boosting or playing semi-clean with the guitar volume turned down.
Nice! What value is the pot out of interest?
@@ThatPedalShow from memory: I used a 50k, my reasoning being the effect loop is buffered/ low-impedance.
Re 23:39 - that's what Mike Campbell does, as well - I think he kicks in his Fender Excelsior amp for solos. Check out his rig rundown
My amps are a 5e3 clone, and a Dr.Z Z28, both very Vintage and chewy. The 5e3 especially can’t handle being stacked with Overdrive, without caving into itself. I’ve been experimenting with a Treble Booster (Naga Viper) for EQ + boost, and using the Guitar volume to attenuate back from the lead sound. I like how the TB keeps some sparkle in the sound when the volume is backed off.
It would be amazing to run them together in this way, or the duel/mono method you guys have also setup in the past. I love the sound of both of the amps …a las, largely for my own amusement, haven’t gigged in years! Might be over kill at the jam session?
Good lord, that Deluxe Reverb sounds wonderful once it gets up near 7. What a glorious sound. Lately, I've been playing with using the Soul Food at lowest gain as a means of EQ shaping and adjusting level to taste. Lots of fun experimenting with this.
Yeah man, we always get it out at Experience Days and crank it. People usually can’t believe what they’re hearing!
Well this is really eye opening for me lads 🤩 i have to rework my pedalboard now 😂🤘 happy days 😁
I use a volume pedal always down (50% volume) on a loop on my switcher for rhythm and disengage that loop for lead which seems similar to this approach.
awesome episode! First time I have gas for a volume knob 😂
This reminds me a lot of the old episode with the OCD & Blues Jr.
Strata are the ultimate tone machine
That Carl Martin is awesome. - Great video!
Cool. I’m currently using my Cali76 at home as an under drive as my amps are too loud for home use. I’ll look to using this method live.
Same here with an SP after my drive pedals. Gives some simulated sag and the limiting makes it easier to sit in the mix with backing tracks at home.
I have found that the nut on PRS guitars can cause tuning problems if they aren’t used regularly. Before you operate on your DGT, trying putting a hour on it with some wiggle stick.
Although PRS won’t declare what the nut is made of, it is most llikely graphite based and be self lubricating. It needs some use to get it to re-lubricate. Pretty the same idea as cleaning out a conventional and applying fresh pencil lead.
i've just been playing with a boost before or after my 2 drives. you guys must be psychic!
I could try this with my fixer pedal from Browne Amplification. First boost could be set low and second boost at unity. 🙌
after several years spend with you guys I understand that strat is not my thing... recently I bought LP style guitar with two P90 for this ethernal fuzz saturated shougaze/doom metal... and OH MY GOD! I'm banned to turn my amp in my house. understandably tbh.
much love guys
Hoping that Headroom makes it into the upcoming standalone reverb shootout.
Try the Z-Verb if you can find it too. Peach might have one. Dr. Z builds a lovely tube-driven reverb!
I got a Koch twintone. It actually has this functionality built in, but after the pre amp, I believe. There is a build in passive volume that you turn down to get your rhythm sound. By engaging the solo mode, you bypass this control.
I forgot to add that I really lik it, but don't use it enough in practice since the leads to the foot controller are too short. I should do something about it, especially after seeing this video.
Yes
Oh another pedal Dan me hopes
Great vid! This might go beyod gain stacking but in the same vein of gettin that boost, why and how does the slapback get tha cut in the mix? Additonally, putting the slap on one amp only (either kill dry mostly wet). Im seein lots people do the stereo slap back lead tone with their multi amp rig (namely blake mills, maddison cunninham, mason stoops). Which i believe gets the same effect with joey landreth's delayed room sound.
I'd genuinely like to see the follow-up to this concept as Dan's thought process/testing to find that "boost amp" for his rig. Because I'm genuinely curious what he'd do with what he has.
Matchless will be the core sound but, does he move the Lazy J to boost for that driven Tweed thing? If so what becomes the wet/dry combo? Would a Princeton work? What of Audio Kitchen or Hiwatt or hell the Sovtek would be a killer boost. I'd be interested in watching that discovery.
Subtracting EQing is genius!
Think Ian Thornley does this by adding a Suhr Hedgehog when he needs to go to 11 😂 amazing sounds lads!
Ian is such a master of tone, get him on the show!
Great episode, I’m really interested in this sort of approach, and ‘underdrive’ too & would like to experiment a bit. But how does one go about incorporating it in to a rig already running TPS Wet/Dry?…is it simply that a 3rd amp is required?
Im using a passive box with a volume pod that i did myself all the time with my Ibanez Tube Screamer 15 combo as a attenuator. Setting the amp to a volume sweetspot (that makes tubes work), and lowering the input volume with this box. It's a clean, high headroom amp anyway so i get drives from pedals anyway :)
Sounds better with it so why not?
Niiiiice! Now I’m imagining the possibilities using a Chase Bliss Condor to do the cut/eq shaping. Definitely going to have to give that a go. Might even make some midi presets! (* Ducks tomato thrown by Mick *)
Hahaha! Go for it! M1D1 for the win!
I was thinking exactly the same thing and searching for a condor comment! Oh the M1D1 possibilities