The "Hero's Journey" is really just the essence of a human's life. Being raised by protective family presumably, going on the journey into adulthood, learning lessons that lead to rewards, returning home matured to start your own family. This essential concept can be expanded and modified into situations, all really just based on the idea of self-fulfillment.
But don't you find that this is just our cultural understanding of the normal biography? In contemporary life, people's journeys through life are far less fixated to this model, with more and more people being single or not choosing to start a family. So it's not an everlasting truth of how people's lives go, but rather a reflection of our cultural values in a specific location and point in time.
It's important for the character story to remember that Frodo actually failed, the quest was only a success by accident because despite hobbit's having low ambition, Frodo was eventually corrupted by the ring and refused to destroy it and it was only Smeagol fighting him for it that led to the rings destruction, by pure luck as two being corrupted by the ring fighting over it is what led to it's own destruction. LoTR is just a great version of the hero's journey.
As Gandalf explained it was no luck.There are things destined to happen and many other things bigger than you (Frodo) and me. It does not mean Sauron's defeat at that time was certain but that many random encounters and rare events were not so random or rare, so it was not sheer luck or a totally implausible "plot twist" But anyway, the great stories have many readings. .
@@atzuras True, it is plausible that if Frodo was not corrupted by the ring in the final stretch he would not have been willing to fight so hard on the edge of the lava to keep it and Smeagol might have successfully grabbed it and run rather than die fighting. If you are going down the destiny route anyway, that's a decent reason as to why Frodo needed to "fail" his quest on the last step.
Frodo created the 'accident' by being virtuous and keeping Smeagol alive. Something he'd learned along the way. "Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand". Thus, the ring destroyed itself by corrupting them both, and Frodo endured the trial, completing his hero's journey.
I always found it to be Saurons malice that killed Sauron. As when Golumn grabs the ring from Frodo’s neck in the second book it tells him if he hurts the hobbit he will burn. Then after biting his finger off; the prophecy comes true and Golumn burns. Taking the ring with him.
When you first starting talking about common myths, I thought "He's been reading Campbell." Many (many) years ago, maybe before you were hatched, I attended a lecture by Campbell. Must have been sometime between 1975-78. I've also read most of his popular books - great stuff!
The thing now is that Campbell is so well known in writing circles that even if he wasn't right, it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is, a night on Netflix is likely to include the Hero's Journey written by people who studied Campbell.
A night on Netflix is often a Hero's Journey in of itself. You start out comfortable and somewhat content, but as you browse through the library you feel like something is missing. You come across the first title or genre that you haven't really touched before, you consider it, but ultimately you keep scrolling in hopes of finding something more related to your comfort choises. You finally reach the dead end, the last chapter, and the feeling of having nothing to watch strikes you. "Is Netflix really empty?" you think to yourself. At the increased stress of having nothing to watch on this good friday evening, you return to some of the odd genres you previously put aside. You look into some titles, you research them on the internet, you look up one show or movie after the other, but grow increasingly confused about the quality and content, as they are so unfamiliar to your usual crop of content. Finally, you find that one show that appears promising and doesn't have any directly discouraging aspects to it. You decide to watch the first episode, going in with zero expectations - only the hope that you will not find yourself bored by the end. As you watch the episode, you grow increasingly invested and intrigued, and when it finally comes to an end, you are left with the stinging urge. The urge to click "next episode". After watching another 4 episodes, you decide to put it on rest for now. Your journey is now over, you have had a fulfilled evening, and something to look forward to tomorrow. And more importantly, you leave the journey behind with newfound wisdom about a love for a genre you previously did not anticipate would envoke your interest. Your horizons have widened, and your outlook is a bit brighter than before. Who am I kidding, no one stops at only 4 episodes.
@@harpintn Sure, but the video brought up an opposing opinion that says Campbell (perhaps inadvertently) cherry picked ancient stories that fit his narrative structure, and ignored those that don't. I don't have an opinion as to which of those views is right. I'm certainly no expert in that field. My point is that his formulation is so famous that at this point most modern stories probably do follow the Hero's Journey archetype because that's what people who write stories for a living learn about. It doesn't matter whether he was right or not at this point when it comes to analyzing modern stories.
@@0_TokiToki_0 well that is just very sad. I loved my bedtime stories when i was very little. Me, my dad, and our german sheppard. Still remember them days. He would read me red riding hood and talk about that wolf with the big teeth, and it was a bit scary, meanwhile our german sheppard had big teeth and all i had was love for her. Hahahaha. Funny old times to look back on. I would read my kids bedtime stories for sure. It is a part of a young childs development.
In the house beside his, a child is born, who'll look at heroes like him and aspire to be them, to get out of this boring life and enjoy the thrill and adventure. And the cycle repeats itself.
Arcane took a different approach to story telling and beyond traditional storytelling from like the heros journey is a great example was why it got so popular but its more complicated than that
That's one reason why Star Wars sequel trilogy was so unsatisfying. The main character did not go through the hero's journey. She was instantly good at everything and won every struggle or battle she faced. She didn't really grow into a new person by the end. She defeated the enemy without using lessons learnt throughout the story, if she even learnt anything.
Exactly sjw writting, where the hero must be already perfect from the beggining, so there is no real struggle, it is not a journey, but a walk in the shopping...
@@pbonfanti Yep, they are already perfect. Why, to infer they are not, would put you in the stew: racist, homophobe, sexist, or any imagined nonsense. Oh poo! We cant have THAT, can we? LOL
Very much so. I hated it. Initially it seemed that Finn was going to be the main character which would have been an interesting take; the story of a stormtrooper changing sides and joining the resistance. His motivations behind that would have been much more engaging than the Rey mary-sue esque BS. The whole film series felt mashed together without concern for consistency in the story, like introducing Rose as a love interest then completely side-lining her in the next movie. Made no sense whatsoever.
From what I understand, there are really about eight different story patterns that can be told; all stories follow these patterns. Things like: man against nature, man against himself, etc. it’s just finding different ways of telling the same basic storyline. Thoughty two, I love this channel.
Everything redacted to narrow outcomes can be justified as being the same. Spolier! Every human story is the same. Humans eat, sleep, and die. It doesn"t matter if stories have the same structure. Its the details that make a story worth remembering.
I grew up playing The Legend of Zelda games and that was my favorite journey. I always wanted to be a hero, and set off on these astounding adventures. So, it's kind of nice when you say we experience this journey in our own way. I quit drugs almost 7 years ago, that is one of the biggest moments in my hero's journey.
If you want to look at it that way, *everyone* is slain by their dragon eventually, we all die, we are released by the dragon from this reality. But our minds spin tales of more realities, more dragons, more adventures.
Oh! I've seen this "Hero's Journey" before! He's an average plumber living an ok life but when he rings the doorbell and a goddess answers, he's called to action! He says "I'm here to clean your pipes." Her nightgown drops, his eyes widen.. and that's when mom ripped my TV out of the wall and grounded me for 2 weeks so I never got to see him complete his journey.. But I'll bet she got her money's worth! I can't wait to grow up and be a plumber now.
Actually, you don't need a "Cambell to know this repetition of the "Hero's Journey" throughout the history of tales, myths, and legends. You just need to have an open mind, and a love for reading tales, myths, and legends. Personally, I think there are a limited number of themes to be found in tales, myths, and legends, so their repetition is inevitable. BUT the "Kicker" is NOT in the Themes themselves, but in the imaginative retelling and reinventing of these themes. The settings, the details, and the characters may change with time and society's values and vices, thus to each new generation, the stories will always seem fresh and new. This is especially true for societies that put a low priority on traditional VALUES, and reading / listening to tales, myths, and legends. This is why current mediums of story telling like Japanese Anime are so engaging and always new to their audiences, unlike the forced "preachiness" and insistent social experimentation of what passes for entertainment in western societies like America, and authoritarian dictatorships like CCP China. Good stories DON'T aggressively tell people what to think. Rather, they put an emphasis on entertaining, allowing the audience to come away feeling good and thoughtfully fulfilled. Or to put it another way, "it's easier to catch more flies with sugar rather then vinegar". A story that leaves the audience feeling GOOD will often be remembered. A CHEAP, LAZY, PREACHING "sermon" of a tale will be easily forgotten. The themes in Heroic tales endure because they are universally accepted, even admired. So in essence, Cambell's book is just stating the obvious. He's a seeming "authority" on the matter ONLY to people who DON'T USUALLY go out of their way to make time to read a good story, tale, myth, or legend, until they see the movie version.
Are you implying most popular anime isn't repetitive? Setting is the only thing most anime has thats unique. Other than that the characters and themes are some of the laziest in storytelling. Most shounen themes consist of "try your hardest, dont give up on your dreams, value friendship". Over and over and over.
Is not that there are no more stories to be too but the ones that follow the mono myth are retold over generations just changing some aspects but the pattern remains, start in a familiar situation, face the unknown, pay a price, adapts and learns from the unknown, returns to the familiar world but the character has grown and changed, it speaks to our experiences of growth and life, there’s a reason they are retold over and over while still being successful
The original trilogy does it with the protagonist overcoming the final hurdle. Helps that George Lucas was a fan of the journey and Joseph Campbells book on the hero's journey.
@@alpacamale2909 Not really. They say Star Wars is a tragedy exactly because he should've become the opposite of what he did. And he was only saved by his son and, finally, defeated the real villain. If you watch the Clone Wars (I mean the animated show) you're going to understand that the Jedi themselves pushed him over the edge. And Yoda didn't help, AT ALL, when Anakin went to him with fear of losing his loved one. Do you remember it from Revenge of the Sith? Yoda just said "let it go"...
Imagine a story which starts with the hero fighting his greatest challenge, gives up and goes back home, learns nothing and continues on living a regular life as a plummer. The end.
It all makes sense now. I'm basically on my own hero journey being a rap artist (trying something new, which I'm btw passionate about) battling different rappers, facing different ways of ways to writing, flowing and beats which could sometimes be difficult in the beginning, with a goal in the end of conquering difficulties in this art and to make a living out of it. All this because of the hard life I was raised in, but still see a chance to make the best out of it. I don't regret watching this video!
They aren't exactly ruined. Knowing about the hero's journey does not in any way impact your own personal journey. You can still continue to read books and live hundreds of lifetimes in fantastical universes.
There is already a lot of both literary and theological analysis about this but, actually, Frodo failed to overcome his final challenge completely, and was saved by grace.
This is one thing that The Adventures of Tintin books don't have. Tintin just appeared. He didn't go through the hero journey. But it works, his adventures are so famous now. Steven Spielberg even got ideas from Tintin for Indiana Jones.
Character arches can be an amazing teacher. It's what makes non fiction more real than fiction arguably in my opinion. When the stories are taken over by Third parties and businesses and the DOD
@@davidanderson_surrey_bc damn i was drunk when i commented it looks like I didn't even finish my sentence about the DOD AND made basic spelling spelling mistakes
I've got a few you tuber's I like but I absolutely love "Thoughty 2" , Arran is my favorite UA-camr , I wish I could afford to be a patron. I never miss a video. 💜
I was going to say the same thing. I've read the book too. There's also a huge database that breaks down all stories into even more specific type of stories.
@@LarryBonson It's definitely over used but it is a formula that leaves the viewer/reader satisfied and completed. In "art house films" it is often purposely avoided/rejected or in the case of a Tarantino film it is out of order.
that was quite an inspiring video thoughty2! Just reaffirms and makes me want to stick with the changes I made recently on going back to school and bettering my life! (well, at least increase the chances of my life becoming better in the future..!) Keep up with the great content!!
I have a friend that used to annoy me no end, 5 minutes into a movie he would tell me exactly how the movie was going to play out. It took me a few years to see what he saw. Thanks Lex, you killed nearly all movies, books and stories for me.
So much of this video took me down the nostalgic road to happier times, when I was at filmschool and studying Joseph Campbell. May not have been your intention, but thanks Thoughty2, especially liked this one
The reason that Frodo seems to not quite fit the pattern (actually not winning against the ring's corruption and being traumatized forever) is that the true hero in LOTR is actually Sam.
I deliberately try to avoid this pattern, but it can be hard. The biggest problem is that if you never settle back down to a form of normalcy, you end up with escalation to absurdity. Like stories where the only way to raise the stakes is to blow up/take over the world/universe, just as one example. One of my favorite examples of this happening is the Vorpal Blade Saga by John Ringo.
@@cameronjames5904 That's what keeps a lot of us reading, or writing. If you have good characters, it doesn't really matter if the plot is roughly the same as everything else you've ever read. Those kinds of books become friends you want to sit a visit with over and over again.
Nice summary, Thoughty2. The structure rings true for me - maybe it holds true enough to be familiar, or maybe it’s a structure that is most satisfying to most people, and so appears in a wider range of folk myths and legends.
A writer woke up one morning, remembering that he had a vivid dream that night of a very revolutionary story no one had heard before. He also remebered to have written it down somewhere, but could not finde the note. In despair he searched the flat for several days for the details on his ground breaking dream story. Finally one day he found the precious note. It said: Boy meets girl.
Awesome job explaining Critical Structuralism. Like you said, "Not everyone agrees," and in fact there are several other fields of narratology (the science of storytelling) that differ with Campbell's viewpoint. I personally tend to agree with the structuralists, but Post-Structuralism, Reader Response, and New Historicism are just a few of the other fields that look at story telling with a different understanding.
4:03 Wait, are you saying the Matrix is one long drug trip and in reality, Neo was simply running around town, jumping off stuff, smashing stuff up and talking to the sewer people. The people he thought were agent Smith must have got a real beating. I think I've seen Neo on the subway before.
Great video. So the humanities departments of major universities in the West have become (in the last thirty years) repulsed by literary criticism motivated by Campbell's outlook--commonly called "Myth Criticism" by those use use it. The approach isn't taught anymore really. I learned about it after reading Kathryn Hume's book, 'Fantasy and Mimesis' which is an amazing book and changed how I wrote my essays in college. My professors at CSULB of course knew about it but they admitted to learning it decades ago and confessed that serious scholars have abandoned myth crit in favor of Poststructuralism and New Historicism. To keep it brief, the fad nowadays is to view everything as a social construct which isn't very 'Jungian' haha. I guess I was a bit of an anachronism in college because I loved Campbell, Northrop Frye, etc. and I loved THIS. Thanks Thoughty2 you're a beast.
When you reduce every movie to the bare minimun, every movie is the same. That's why the argument "Every Marvel movie is the same, because Marvel formula." And they proceed to reduce the movies to their skeleton, mades zero sense and is a dumb, senseless, argument.
The fact that every Marvel film is so predictable is a major problem, it doesn't have to be this way look at Tarantino, Miyazaki, and many South Korean films, they are very unpredictable and exciting for simply not showing us all the cards. Even Tarantino said that he only writes half the story and then character development will drive the second half, Django Unchained is a perfect example of character driven stories.
Here's the thing about LOTR, it's genius: Frodo didn't win an important battle, Frodo failed when he couldn't throw the ring into the fire. It took Gollum to fulfil Frodo's quest.
The Danish / Norwegian writer Ludvig Holberg (1684 - 1754) stated in one of his essays that all the basic stories in the world could be contained in just a few volumes.
I believe this happens because it’s of our way of imagination, imagination isn’t exactly completely original, most ideas are inspired by other forms of ideas, because that’s the way the human brain works, it takes up information and if we decide to use it then that’s basically imagination. They aren’t the same ideas they’re just ideas refurbished and reborn in a different and unique way. Likely chances are there has never been an absolutely completely original idea ever invented in human history, because the human brain cannot just come up with something out of nowhere it needs information from somewhere.
Joan Crawford had a friend in her old age and they would sometimes watch foreign cartoons on tv. He was amazed that she always knew what would happen; ‘’there are only SO many plots’’.
I actually wrote a book called 'Magigo Saga' with Magigo from a poor African village, who was called to go to the edge of the world to save his people. I wrote this without knowing about the Hero's journey, but I loved the Lord of the ring.
Every mainstream or even B through Z list movie may be extremely similar. Try watching full length shock films online, documentaries of legally compiled murder footage from law enforcement archives. You'll see someone new, you probably won't like it.
If the hero fails the final test , it just means that there will be a sequel(s) in order that the studios , the writers and the publishers can garner more money. The failure is designed with this intent.
It's either this or person meets person and falls for them, gets trrrned down. Then wins them over when it's realised they are the best thing since cheese on chips.
Sounds to me like the "monomyth" is hardwired into our brains because it actually, like many works of fiction, reflect life. True, not everyone lives a spectacular hero's journey, like Luke Skywalker or Frodo Baggins, but the stories themselves reflect the lives we all live. I'm not sure its the collective unconscious that Campbell cites. But if it is a common experience because it is a pattern most, if not all people undergo, then, there it is, a universal experience, like waking up each day.
This is why I love the movie "I am legend" . The main guy had a great life thats turned upside down when his family dies and a virus ravages the city until he's the last one left. He tried to survive with a dog, the only living companion, but the dog dies and he becomes vengeful and suicidal. Leading to him blowing himself up and joining his family in the afterlife. Other than I am legend, another movie with a similar story is gladiator.
Great presentation and you're absolutely correct! I think this professor should have gone into psychology -I'm currently in stage 2 of my life, looking to use a special power to enter stage 3(victory). 😅 Your pop culture examples of Lord of the Rings/Harry Potter are examples of post modern "challenging grand narratives". Arran you're a post modern man who makes their living from knowledge/information(postmodern) and Britain is the 2nd largest exporter of services in the world of a post modern economy.
I have a theory that the heros journey is inspired from feeling different from the rest and hoping or dreaming that you don't fit in because somewhere out there is the environment you were TRULY made for, where your skillset is just the combination needed for something, and I am guessing for example rags to riches comes from the dream and hope for the lucky break.
There is also the “a law enforcement or military officer of some sort makes a mistake and gets demoted to a desk job - then terrorists of some sort just happen to be unfolding a plot right in front of him and just happens to take a hostage that is close to him and he goes on the inside to kick ass , picking up weapons and fighting people along the way - then the movie goes to the people in charge and the terrorist contacts them to give their list of demands or hostages die - shortly after the hero calls the command center and they tell him “you don’t get involved” then he says “you don’t have no choice - I’m all you got” then the second in command tells the person in charge “we have to trust him, right now it’s our only option” they trust him and fill him in on what he knows and he contacts them with intel to fill them in on who the terrorist are - then the hero kicks ass doing a great job but the people at the command center decide to send people in and the hero warns them not to and to give him more time and then they send in the troops anyways and he sees the trap and calls and tells them to hold back - hey don’t and the troops sent in dies and he just about doesn’t complete his mission but then does in the nick of time - he saves the person he knows but they are very hurt, but alive - he gets promoted off the desk back to his old post - the end.
The heroes journey is timeless and is a brilliant template when done right. Knew you would talk about this before you did. Knew it would be a good video. Weird how some modern movies can mess this up easily.
Dude!!! I keep thinking you say 42 here!!! Lord of The Rings rocks!!! I really love the ENTIRE Dune series!!! Frank Herbert was/is a genius!!! His Litany Against Fear helps me immeasurably!!! The heroes journey helps us all to strive to be better. In my humble opinion. Thanks. Take care and have fun!!! 😷😎😷
Matching A Christmas Carol to the "Hero's Journey" is an uneasy fit at best. It is one thing to note a lot of common ideas. It is quite another to try to force-fit everything to them.
@@kcjones6034 "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something." More often than not, we will be tired and sore, suffering in silence through an unfair world. This makes the moments of non-pain more poignant. Although "Never get into a landwar in Asia" is good to remember as well.
We actually studied this in Literature class, starting in middle school. I always found it interesting how this basic story line can apply to basically any movie, legend, book, etx.
Frodo did not have an unfulfilling life. He spends most of the timeline as the owner of Bag End whilst Aragorn and Gandalf do all the adventuring and investigations around Middle-Earth. It is made clear early on in the book that Frodo is scared, as Gandalf tells him all he knows of the One Ring. The "I wish it need not have happened in my time" quote is there, after all. He goes through many traumatising experiences in the journey, and initially he has trouble accepting he is no longer in Hobbinton. Rivendell and Lóthlórien revive his spirit, but that is about it. Besides, him going on a journey and finishing his quest at Mount Doom does not mean it is the exact same as Harry Potter. By that reasoning half of the fantasy genre is precisely same. Contrary to popular belief, fantasy is always innovating and the vast majority of series are very distinct from each other. Additionally, series like Lord of the Rings and Cosmere especially delve into philosophy. It is impressive how nuanced Tolkien made it.
This is even the Major Arcana of every tarot deck. The Fool starts a journey, meeting people & makes his way through to the World XXI card where he's sent back to the beginning starting all over again on a new journey
Personally I think the Hero's Journey is very ubiquitous because it's very abstract and boils things down to their most basic elements of a heroic/triumphant narrative, there exists many stories that don't follow the Hero's Journey and are still successful and interesting.
The "Hero's Journey" is really just the essence of a human's life.
Being raised by protective family presumably, going on the journey into adulthood, learning lessons that lead to rewards, returning home matured to start your own family.
This essential concept can be expanded and modified into situations, all really just based on the idea of self-fulfillment.
I don't agree as this is exactly what people find unfulfilling.
So you're saying the stories we tell are templates for passing on our cultural values, wisdom, and/or survival?
@@nerios.v yeah a good story at most
But don't you find that this is just our cultural understanding of the normal biography? In contemporary life, people's journeys through life are far less fixated to this model, with more and more people being single or not choosing to start a family. So it's not an everlasting truth of how people's lives go, but rather a reflection of our cultural values in a specific location and point in time.
@Leandro Aude That is not very relevant in regard to what I am saying.
It's important for the character story to remember that Frodo actually failed, the quest was only a success by accident because despite hobbit's having low ambition, Frodo was eventually corrupted by the ring and refused to destroy it and it was only Smeagol fighting him for it that led to the rings destruction, by pure luck as two being corrupted by the ring fighting over it is what led to it's own destruction.
LoTR is just a great version of the hero's journey.
As Gandalf explained it was no luck.There are things destined to happen and many other things bigger than you (Frodo) and me.
It does not mean Sauron's defeat at that time was certain but that many random encounters and rare events were not so random or rare, so it was not sheer luck or a totally implausible "plot twist"
But anyway, the great stories have many readings. .
@@atzuras True, it is plausible that if Frodo was not corrupted by the ring in the final stretch he would not have been willing to fight so hard on the edge of the lava to keep it and Smeagol might have successfully grabbed it and run rather than die fighting.
If you are going down the destiny route anyway, that's a decent reason as to why Frodo needed to "fail" his quest on the last step.
Frodo created the 'accident' by being virtuous and keeping Smeagol alive. Something he'd learned along the way.
"Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand".
Thus, the ring destroyed itself by corrupting them both, and Frodo endured the trial, completing his hero's journey.
I always found it to be Saurons malice that killed Sauron.
As when Golumn grabs the ring from Frodo’s neck in the second book it tells him if he hurts the hobbit he will burn.
Then after biting his finger off; the prophecy comes true and Golumn burns. Taking the ring with him.
The ring in the end destroyed itself when put to the ultimate test.
When you first starting talking about common myths, I thought "He's been reading Campbell." Many (many) years ago, maybe before you were hatched, I attended a lecture by Campbell. Must have been sometime between 1975-78. I've also read most of his popular books - great stuff!
the collective unconscious is also the hive mind. it's most obvious with victim mentality
I’ve learnt a lot from Campbell, a great writer.
1 hour ago?
Very close to the good/bad trope
Like karma?
Like Tolstoy said, all great literature is one of three stories: a man goes on a journey, a stranger comes to town and Godzilla vs Megashark.
It was Abraham Lincoln said that.
You had me in the first three quarters.
I liked Tolstoy's Godzilla, but I had a hard time keeping track of every species of fish and cetacean he encountered while swimming to Kamchatka.
re-phraise: someone adventures, someone enters somewhere else, god vs god.
yeesh. seems right.
The thing now is that Campbell is so well known in writing circles that even if he wasn't right, it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is, a night on Netflix is likely to include the Hero's Journey written by people who studied Campbell.
A night on Netflix is often a Hero's Journey in of itself.
You start out comfortable and somewhat content, but as you browse through the library you feel like something is missing. You come across the first title or genre that you haven't really touched before, you consider it, but ultimately you keep scrolling in hopes of finding something more related to your comfort choises. You finally reach the dead end, the last chapter, and the feeling of having nothing to watch strikes you. "Is Netflix really empty?" you think to yourself. At the increased stress of having nothing to watch on this good friday evening, you return to some of the odd genres you previously put aside. You look into some titles, you research them on the internet, you look up one show or movie after the other, but grow increasingly confused about the quality and content, as they are so unfamiliar to your usual crop of content.
Finally, you find that one show that appears promising and doesn't have any directly discouraging aspects to it. You decide to watch the first episode, going in with zero expectations - only the hope that you will not find yourself bored by the end. As you watch the episode, you grow increasingly invested and intrigued, and when it finally comes to an end, you are left with the stinging urge. The urge to click "next episode". After watching another 4 episodes, you decide to put it on rest for now. Your journey is now over, you have had a fulfilled evening, and something to look forward to tomorrow. And more importantly, you leave the journey behind with newfound wisdom about a love for a genre you previously did not anticipate would envoke your interest. Your horizons have widened, and your outlook is a bit brighter than before.
Who am I kidding, no one stops at only 4 episodes.
@@Real_MisterSir Well played, sir!
Ancient literature has that same basic theme repeated countless time. That is where Campbell got his ideas from.
@@harpintn Sure, but the video brought up an opposing opinion that says Campbell (perhaps inadvertently) cherry picked ancient stories that fit his narrative structure, and ignored those that don't. I don't have an opinion as to which of those views is right. I'm certainly no expert in that field.
My point is that his formulation is so famous that at this point most modern stories probably do follow the Hero's Journey archetype because that's what people who write stories for a living learn about. It doesn't matter whether he was right or not at this point when it comes to analyzing modern stories.
@@Real_MisterSir I usually give up 10 minutes into the first episode.
Arran, you’re reading me bedtime stories like a parent I’ve never had.
Your parents didnt read you bedtime stories? :(. That... makes me very sad for some reason.
@@MrJC1 It's not that uncommon tbh, never had a bedtime story myself.
@@0_TokiToki_0 well that is just very sad. I loved my bedtime stories when i was very little. Me, my dad, and our german sheppard. Still remember them days. He would read me red riding hood and talk about that wolf with the big teeth, and it was a bit scary, meanwhile our german sheppard had big teeth and all i had was love for her. Hahahaha. Funny old times to look back on. I would read my kids bedtime stories for sure. It is a part of a young childs development.
I never had that either...but i did/do it for my kids.
@@xiiixiii337 they'll always remember it. Haha.
end of the journey,,hero appreciates just how great a boring life is compared to almost dying everyday
true. most people who have seen real violence are terrified of it.
And has to live with terrible PTSD for ever more...
In the house beside his, a child is born, who'll look at heroes like him and aspire to be them, to get out of this boring life and enjoy the thrill and adventure. And the cycle repeats itself.
@@butcherax i had ptsd growing up watching ogrish stuff lol so I pretty much appreciate my peace..I am even terrified of motorcycles
Arcane took a different approach to story telling and beyond traditional storytelling from like the heros journey is a great example was why it got so popular but its more complicated than that
That "hero's journey" started with Gilgamesh, the first true hero.
The Epic of Gilgamesh seems to be wildly under-acknowledged. It's rather brilliant.
@@vydave Instead of brilliant I would use.... epic
@@lukethornton1308 "Presenting... The All New, Epic of Gilgamesh! It's pretty epic."
Isn't Gilgamesh the consumer of worlds?
Actually, who is Gilgamesh and what story is it?
@@mikethegoo You may be refering to Angra Mainyu from Zoroastrism.
That's one reason why Star Wars sequel trilogy was so unsatisfying. The main character did not go through the hero's journey. She was instantly good at everything and won every struggle or battle she faced. She didn't really grow into a new person by the end. She defeated the enemy without using lessons learnt throughout the story, if she even learnt anything.
Rey is a Pay-to-Win character
I agree. I think you just put your finger on why a lot of modern Hollywood movies fail.
Exactly sjw writting, where the hero must be already perfect from the beggining, so there is no real struggle, it is not a journey, but a walk in the shopping...
@@pbonfanti Yep, they are already perfect. Why, to infer they are not, would put you in the stew: racist, homophobe, sexist, or any imagined nonsense. Oh poo! We cant have THAT, can we? LOL
Very much so. I hated it. Initially it seemed that Finn was going to be the main character which would have been an interesting take; the story of a stormtrooper changing sides and joining the resistance. His motivations behind that would have been much more engaging than the Rey mary-sue esque BS. The whole film series felt mashed together without concern for consistency in the story, like introducing Rose as a love interest then completely side-lining her in the next movie. Made no sense whatsoever.
The hero's journey is a metaphor for life. That's why it resonates with all of us.
From what I understand, there are really about eight different story patterns that can be told; all stories follow these patterns. Things like: man against nature, man against himself, etc. it’s just finding different ways of telling the same basic storyline.
Thoughty two, I love this channel.
Everything redacted to narrow outcomes can be justified as being the same. Spolier! Every human story is the same. Humans eat, sleep, and die. It doesn"t matter if stories have the same structure. Its the details that make a story worth remembering.
I honestly thought Thoughty2 would be going through the 7 archetypes of stories. Im hoping we get to go through all of them :)
Same here
As defined by the ancient Greeks, wasn't it?
I thought he was a secret agent or something?
@@Shauma_llama Yes.
Overcoming the Monster
Rags to Riches
The Quest
Voyage and Return
Rebirth
Comedy
Tragedy
I bet he's just talking about the "heroes journey" only 29 seconds in.
I grew up playing The Legend of Zelda games and that was my favorite journey. I always wanted to be a hero, and set off on these astounding adventures. So, it's kind of nice when you say we experience this journey in our own way. I quit drugs almost 7 years ago, that is one of the biggest moments in my hero's journey.
The problem with this is that the Heros Journey is survivor bias, most people in real life get slan by the dragon
Yes but if you tell your children that... I don't know how many heroes we will have then?
Its an book something made up, a better world and way.
@@svenskavandraren9842 better they learn then then have an entitled generation on our hands...... oh wait too late
If you want to look at it that way, *everyone* is slain by their dragon eventually, we all die, we are released by the dragon from this reality. But our minds spin tales of more realities, more dragons, more adventures.
@@Billcee1976 realistic fiction is soo depressing , like that book 1984 . I still shiver at its story
Oh! I've seen this "Hero's Journey" before! He's an average plumber living an ok life but when he rings the doorbell and a goddess answers, he's called to action! He says "I'm here to clean your pipes." Her nightgown drops, his eyes widen.. and that's when mom ripped my TV out of the wall and grounded me for 2 weeks so I never got to see him complete his journey.. But I'll bet she got her money's worth! I can't wait to grow up and be a plumber now.
What
If you don't make it as a plumber, there's always the pizza delivery job.
Actually, you don't need a "Cambell to know this repetition of the "Hero's Journey" throughout the history of tales, myths, and legends.
You just need to have an open mind, and a love for reading tales, myths, and legends. Personally, I think there are a limited number of themes to be found in tales, myths, and legends, so their repetition is inevitable. BUT the "Kicker" is NOT in the Themes themselves, but in the imaginative retelling and reinventing of these themes. The settings, the details, and the characters may change with time and society's values and vices, thus to each new generation, the stories will always seem fresh and new. This is especially true for societies that put a low priority on traditional VALUES, and reading / listening to tales, myths, and legends.
This is why current mediums of story telling like Japanese Anime are so engaging and always new to their audiences, unlike the forced "preachiness" and insistent social experimentation of what passes for entertainment in western societies like America, and authoritarian dictatorships like CCP China.
Good stories DON'T aggressively tell people what to think. Rather, they put an emphasis on entertaining, allowing the audience to come away feeling good and thoughtfully fulfilled.
Or to put it another way, "it's easier to catch more flies with sugar rather then vinegar".
A story that leaves the audience feeling GOOD will often be remembered. A CHEAP, LAZY, PREACHING "sermon" of a tale will be easily forgotten.
The themes in Heroic tales endure because they are universally accepted, even admired.
So in essence, Cambell's book is just stating the obvious. He's a seeming "authority" on the matter ONLY to people who DON'T USUALLY go out of their way to make time to read a good story, tale, myth, or legend, until they see the movie version.
TL;DR
Wish i could like this comment more than once
Are you implying most popular anime isn't repetitive? Setting is the only thing most anime has thats unique. Other than that the characters and themes are some of the laziest in storytelling. Most shounen themes consist of "try your hardest, dont give up on your dreams, value friendship". Over and over and over.
@@solodolosolomon Cough cough the big 3's. Naruto, one piece and bleach.
There's a theory that mankind has always been telling the same 6 stories.
Focus on consequences not details n fellings will do that to you
Curious what those six stories are?
@@mikryan5846 thanks for the new eyes...
Is not that there are no more stories to be too but the ones that follow the mono myth are retold over generations just changing some aspects but the pattern remains, start in a familiar situation, face the unknown, pay a price, adapts and learns from the unknown, returns to the familiar world but the character has grown and changed, it speaks to our experiences of growth and life, there’s a reason they are retold over and over while still being successful
I desperately need a 42 video about this
BTW, the prequel trilogy of Star Wars fits it perfectly as well... But, in the end, our hero fails the final test.
The original trilogy does it with the protagonist overcoming the final hurdle. Helps that George Lucas was a fan of the journey and Joseph Campbells book on the hero's journey.
Yes and no , cause he eventually came full circle a live up to being the chosen one
actually that is the story of the antichrist, another cliche
@@Dontdoit_ Very true. In the end, the hero who defeated the Emperor was Anakin.
@@alpacamale2909 Not really. They say Star Wars is a tragedy exactly because he should've become the opposite of what he did. And he was only saved by his son and, finally, defeated the real villain.
If you watch the Clone Wars (I mean the animated show) you're going to understand that the Jedi themselves pushed him over the edge. And Yoda didn't help, AT ALL, when Anakin went to him with fear of losing his loved one. Do you remember it from Revenge of the Sith? Yoda just said "let it go"...
Imagine a story which starts with the hero fighting his greatest challenge, gives up and goes back home, learns nothing and continues on living a regular life as a plummer. The end.
From many of the movies I see, the plumber gets great rewards - all the time. Can't complain about that.
That’s how most people live. Most of us fail The Hero’s Journey. That’s why the few who succeed are heroes.
Me laughing now knowing Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings is a JoJo reference.
Lmaooo
That's a very bizarre statement
I don't get it.
@@prut7296 the hero’s journey. JoJo’s part 3 - stardust crusaders.
It all makes sense now. I'm basically on my own hero journey being a rap artist (trying something new, which I'm btw passionate about) battling different rappers, facing different ways of ways to writing, flowing and beats which could sometimes be difficult in the beginning, with a goal in the end of conquering difficulties in this art and to make a living out of it. All this because of the hard life I was raised in, but still see a chance to make the best out of it. I don't regret watching this video!
Me: *Literally zoned out, doing nothing, and did NOT ask.*
T2: "Hey, I'm going to ruin all stories of all time forever for you."
Me: "K."
I think he made it better
It's even better when you're currently writing something. I was like oh yeah my book will be totally different. Wait. OH NO
They aren't exactly ruined. Knowing about the hero's journey does not in any way impact your own personal journey. You can still continue to read books and live hundreds of lifetimes in fantastical universes.
For a moment, I thought you were referring to terminator 2. I'm pretty sure that film ticks those boxes
@Ullyr Wuldan You could say:“ Here we come full circle, again“.
Good triumphs over evil. Love wins over hate.
The end.
And then H.P. Lovecraft puts pen to paper...
There is already a lot of both literary and theological analysis about this but, actually, Frodo failed to overcome his final challenge completely, and was saved by grace.
Fate. Gandalf mentions this
This is one thing that The Adventures of Tintin books don't have. Tintin just appeared. He didn't go through the hero journey. But it works, his adventures are so famous now. Steven Spielberg even got ideas from Tintin for Indiana Jones.
Character arches can be an amazing teacher. It's what makes non fiction more real than fiction arguably in my opinion. When the stories are taken over by Third parties and businesses and the DOD
I think you mean "arcs", not "arches". But otherwise, yes.
@@davidanderson_surrey_bc damn i was drunk when i commented it looks like I didn't even finish my sentence about the DOD AND made basic spelling spelling mistakes
I've got a few you tuber's I like but I absolutely love "Thoughty 2" , Arran is my favorite UA-camr , I wish I could afford to be a patron. I never miss a video. 💜
It's called the hero's journey. EDIT: this comment is what happens when you know the answer just 3 seconds in.
I was going to say the same thing. I've read the book too. There's also a huge database that breaks down all stories into even more specific type of stories.
Hero journey is an excuse that lacks any real nuance ideas.
@@LarryBonson It's definitely over used but it is a formula that leaves the viewer/reader satisfied and completed. In "art house films" it is often purposely avoided/rejected or in the case of a Tarantino film it is out of order.
It's also a great example of why you should only comment after you've watched the video. Sadly "being first" is really a thing on UA-cam.
that was quite an inspiring video thoughty2! Just reaffirms and makes me want to stick with the changes I made recently on going back to school and bettering my life! (well, at least increase the chances of my life becoming better in the future..!)
Keep up with the great content!!
I have a friend that used to annoy me no end, 5 minutes into a movie he would tell me exactly how the movie was going to play out. It took me a few years to see what he saw. Thanks Lex, you killed nearly all movies, books and stories for me.
He didn't kill anything. Its just that all of that media was a lazy uninspired though less nonsense and you simply wasted your time consuming it
I hope he's not your friend anymore. Jeez
So much of this video took me down the nostalgic road to happier times, when I was at filmschool and studying Joseph Campbell.
May not have been your intention, but thanks Thoughty2, especially liked this one
This story telling is used to give us, normal folks, HOPE.
The reason that Frodo seems to not quite fit the pattern (actually not winning against the ring's corruption and being traumatized forever) is that the true hero in LOTR is actually Sam.
I'm an author and I must admit, my novel The Lonely Door is no different.
I deliberately try to avoid this pattern, but it can be hard. The biggest problem is that if you never settle back down to a form of normalcy, you end up with escalation to absurdity. Like stories where the only way to raise the stakes is to blow up/take over the world/universe, just as one example. One of my favorite examples of this happening is the Vorpal Blade Saga by John Ringo.
Window: Hey, door! I'm going to go on an adventure today. Come on with me! Are you in or are you out?
Door: I swing both ways.
@@gmgurp6666 Yes the power creep.
What gets me reading is good characters who I can have sympathy for and possibly relate to.
@@davidanderson_surrey_bc 🤣
@@cameronjames5904 That's what keeps a lot of us reading, or writing. If you have good characters, it doesn't really matter if the plot is roughly the same as everything else you've ever read. Those kinds of books become friends you want to sit a visit with over and over again.
It amazes me just how common this plot framing is, and how somehow it can still be completely fresh and new depending on the material
You are one of my inspiration on UA-cam, Thoughty2.. keep up the good work 👍
Nice summary, Thoughty2. The structure rings true for me - maybe it holds true enough to be familiar, or maybe it’s a structure that is most satisfying to most people, and so appears in a wider range of folk myths and legends.
You look great, dude. During the pandemic you seemed sad. The big smile made me happy.
@@kosmique during the lockdown***
A writer woke up one morning, remembering that he had a vivid dream that night of a very revolutionary story no one had heard before. He also remebered to have written it down somewhere, but could not finde the note. In despair he searched the flat for several days for the details on his ground breaking dream story. Finally one day he found the precious note. It said:
Boy meets girl.
that's crazy!
Me: _Sees Neo in Thumbnail_
*Clicks INSTANTLY on video*
😍🥰
Awesome job explaining Critical Structuralism. Like you said, "Not everyone agrees," and in fact there are several other fields of narratology (the science of storytelling) that differ with Campbell's viewpoint. I personally tend to agree with the structuralists, but Post-Structuralism, Reader Response, and New Historicism are just a few of the other fields that look at story telling with a different understanding.
So how does HUMAN CENTIPEDE fit in with HARRY POTTER and LORD OF THE RINGS?
It's called the hero's journey
@Liberty over everything the guy in the middle... true trooper
This movie makes me sick
I still haven't watch it
Never will
Dark magic
the basic campfire adventure story, scribbled on dirt before there were words.
4:03 Wait, are you saying the Matrix is one long drug trip and in reality, Neo was simply running around town, jumping off stuff, smashing stuff up and talking to the sewer people.
The people he thought were agent Smith must have got a real beating. I think I've seen Neo on the subway before.
The fact that Campbell was able to find stories that conformed to the Hero's Journey confirms his hypothesis.
I’m so sick of Harry Potter movies on tv all the time, why don’t they put it on its own channel on a continuous loop
Great video. So the humanities departments of major universities in the West have become (in the last thirty years) repulsed by literary criticism motivated by Campbell's outlook--commonly called "Myth Criticism" by those use use it. The approach isn't taught anymore really. I learned about it after reading Kathryn Hume's book, 'Fantasy and Mimesis' which is an amazing book and changed how I wrote my essays in college. My professors at CSULB of course knew about it but they admitted to learning it decades ago and confessed that serious scholars have abandoned myth crit in favor of Poststructuralism and New Historicism. To keep it brief, the fad nowadays is to view everything as a social construct which isn't very 'Jungian' haha. I guess I was a bit of an anachronism in college because I loved Campbell, Northrop Frye, etc. and I loved THIS. Thanks Thoughty2 you're a beast.
I literally was just talking about this yesterday!
Cuz the world revolves around you, especially since you're a female.
Not all stories follow this. Pulp fiction is a good example
Thoughty2 is preparing to show us a never before seen movie about his life as a 1700s cotton plantation owner 🙏
12:48 "Whatever form it takes ..."
The visual pun is as smashing as it could ever be 😂😂😂.
When you reduce every movie to the bare minimun, every movie is the same. That's why the argument "Every Marvel movie is the same, because Marvel formula." And they proceed to reduce the movies to their skeleton, mades zero sense and is a dumb, senseless, argument.
The fact that every Marvel film is so predictable is a major problem, it doesn't have to be this way look at Tarantino, Miyazaki, and many South Korean films, they are very unpredictable and exciting for simply not showing us all the cards. Even Tarantino said that he only writes half the story and then character development will drive the second half, Django Unchained is a perfect example of character driven stories.
Here's the thing about LOTR, it's genius: Frodo didn't win an important battle, Frodo failed when he couldn't throw the ring into the fire. It took Gollum to fulfil Frodo's quest.
Lol i was just learning about the heros journey in school! This realy helped me helpt me understand it better. Thx!
The Danish / Norwegian writer Ludvig Holberg (1684 - 1754) stated in one of his essays that all the basic stories in the world could be contained in just a few volumes.
I believe this happens because it’s of our way of imagination, imagination isn’t exactly completely original, most ideas are inspired by other forms of ideas, because that’s the way the human brain works, it takes up information and if we decide to use it then that’s basically imagination.
They aren’t the same ideas they’re just ideas refurbished and reborn in a different and unique way.
Likely chances are there has never been an absolutely completely original idea ever invented in human history, because the human brain cannot just come up with something out of nowhere it needs information from somewhere.
Nah if you don't know who Frodo Baggins is you should worry
Great, I'm going to see this story pattern in every single movie I watch for the rest of my life
I've discovered this channel two days ago and ever since i've been binge watching all your videos and i aint stopping any soon 👍
Joseph Campbell: The hero's Journey
Dostoevsky: Hah!
Jacque Derrida: You’re not reading the text!
Joan Crawford had a friend in her old age and they would sometimes watch foreign cartoons on tv. He was amazed that she always knew what would happen; ‘’there are only SO many plots’’.
We see the heroes journey in ancient writings ……Homer, Gilgamesh , thanks Thoughty2
I actually wrote a book called 'Magigo Saga' with Magigo from a poor African village, who was called to go to the edge of the world to save his people. I wrote this without knowing about the Hero's journey, but I loved the Lord of the ring.
Every mainstream or even B through Z list movie may be extremely similar. Try watching full length shock films online, documentaries of legally compiled murder footage from law enforcement archives. You'll see someone new, you probably won't like it.
True creativity is very very rare.
Unpredictability is the keyword! love it when the hero dies
If the hero fails the final test , it just means that there will be a sequel(s) in order that the studios , the writers and the publishers can garner more money. The failure is designed with this intent.
It's either this or person meets person and falls for them, gets trrrned down. Then wins them over when it's realised they are the best thing since cheese on chips.
Boy meets girl. Boy loses girl. Boy wins girl.
Thanks for this thoughty 😊
Sounds to me like the "monomyth" is hardwired into our brains because it actually, like many works of fiction, reflect life.
True, not everyone lives a spectacular hero's journey, like Luke Skywalker or Frodo Baggins, but the stories themselves reflect the lives we all live. I'm not sure its the collective unconscious that Campbell cites. But if it is a common experience because it is a pattern most, if not all people undergo, then, there it is, a universal experience, like waking up each day.
This is why I love the movie "I am legend" . The main guy had a great life thats turned upside down when his family dies and a virus ravages the city until he's the last one left. He tried to survive with a dog, the only living companion, but the dog dies and he becomes vengeful and suicidal. Leading to him blowing himself up and joining his family in the afterlife. Other than I am legend, another movie with a similar story is gladiator.
Hmmm... Something like... The original trilogy of Star Wars? 🤔
No, never heard of it.
The imagery in Your videos is very pleasing, your voice likewise. I like the subtle humor.
Definitely a positive force in my life. Thanks.
It's actually just all our stories if we live long enough into adulthood :-)
Our lives are the real RPG where we level up, if we let it.
Who needs Netflix when Thoughty2 can tell you all stories every written in a single video
Great presentation and you're absolutely correct! I think this professor should have gone into psychology -I'm currently in stage 2 of my life, looking to use a special power to enter stage 3(victory). 😅 Your pop culture examples of Lord of the Rings/Harry Potter are examples of post modern "challenging grand narratives". Arran you're a post modern man who makes their living from knowledge/information(postmodern) and Britain is the 2nd largest exporter of services in the world of a post modern economy.
I have a theory that the heros journey is inspired from feeling different from the rest and hoping or dreaming that you don't fit in because somewhere out there is the environment you were TRULY made for, where your skillset is just the combination needed for something, and I am guessing for example rags to riches comes from the dream and hope for the lucky break.
This really activates my almonds~
There is also the “a law enforcement or military officer of some sort makes a mistake and gets demoted to a desk job - then terrorists of some sort just happen to be unfolding a plot right in front of him and just happens to take a hostage that is close to him and he goes on the inside to kick ass , picking up weapons and fighting people along the way - then the movie goes to the people in charge and the terrorist contacts them to give their list of demands or hostages die - shortly after the hero calls the command center and they tell him “you don’t get involved” then he says “you don’t have no choice - I’m all you got” then the second in command tells the person in charge “we have to trust him, right now it’s our only option” they trust him and fill him in on what he knows and he contacts them with intel to fill them in on who the terrorist are - then the hero kicks ass doing a great job but the people at the command center decide to send people in and the hero warns them not to and to give him more time and then they send in the troops anyways and he sees the trap and calls and tells them to hold back - hey don’t and the troops sent in dies and he just about doesn’t complete his mission but then does in the nick of time - he saves the person he knows but they are very hurt, but alive - he gets promoted off the desk back to his old post - the end.
The heroes journey is timeless and is a brilliant template when done right. Knew you would talk about this before you did. Knew it would be a good video.
Weird how some modern movies can mess this up easily.
Personally, I think the "need to innovate" part of the heroes journey archetype is where modern stories falter.
@@MrTubeStuck Exactly.
Dude!!! I keep thinking you say 42 here!!! Lord of The Rings rocks!!! I really love the ENTIRE Dune series!!! Frank Herbert was/is a genius!!! His Litany Against Fear helps me immeasurably!!! The heroes journey helps us all to strive to be better. In my humble opinion. Thanks. Take care and have fun!!! 😷😎😷
That epic mustache is on a hero's journey!
The Epic of Gilga-stache!
Initially, the moustache refuses the call and stays firmly attached to the upper lip where it has lived, happily, for some years
Then a plucky young beard challenges his place in the world.
Matching A Christmas Carol to the "Hero's Journey" is an uneasy fit at best. It is one thing to note a lot of common ideas. It is quite another to try to force-fit everything to them.
There are movies which are different from clishe structure , u should watch more Movies..
"Save The Cat" (Blake Snyder) is based on The Hero's Journey, but it also makes you aware of several genres of "The Journey"
I had a really tough day. I needed this. This video implies the suffering should end at some point 😆.
Remember the most relevant advice from "The Princess Bride."
@@gmgurp6666 .."But for now, rest well and dream of large women."..?
@@kcjones6034 "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something." More often than not, we will be tired and sore, suffering in silence through an unfair world. This makes the moments of non-pain more poignant.
Although "Never get into a landwar in Asia" is good to remember as well.
We actually studied this in Literature class, starting in middle school. I always found it interesting how this basic story line can apply to basically any movie, legend, book, etx.
Aren't we're all a hero in our own journey?
Telling stories is something we've always done. We don't need books to tell us how.
Watch any Marvel or Dc movie and you’re basically watching the same story.
Now that's not true, there is this movie about ... superhero... guy... girl... saving someone... something?
alright its true.
The basic problem with trying to recreating the wheel is that it will always be round in the end but everybody keeps on waiting a different outcome.
Jordan Peterson does full lectures on this stuff.
Not many people know this. But Jordan Peterson is actually the originator of analytic thought.
Thank you for this episode, not only informational but also much like a self help epic.... Keep up the great work.
all movies are the same
there is a beginning middle and end
Man+talking pie+in love with sister= box office gold
I'd believe that this was the same tale our 'dear leaders' were telling us if they weren't such awful scriptwriters.
Frodo did not have an unfulfilling life. He spends most of the timeline as the owner of Bag End whilst Aragorn and Gandalf do all the adventuring and investigations around Middle-Earth. It is made clear early on in the book that Frodo is scared, as Gandalf tells him all he knows of the One Ring. The "I wish it need not have happened in my time" quote is there, after all. He goes through many traumatising experiences in the journey, and initially he has trouble accepting he is no longer in Hobbinton. Rivendell and Lóthlórien revive his spirit, but that is about it.
Besides, him going on a journey and finishing his quest at Mount Doom does not mean it is the exact same as Harry Potter. By that reasoning half of the fantasy genre is precisely same. Contrary to popular belief, fantasy is always innovating and the vast majority of series are very distinct from each other. Additionally, series like Lord of the Rings and Cosmere especially delve into philosophy. It is impressive how nuanced Tolkien made it.
This is even the Major Arcana of every tarot deck. The Fool starts a journey, meeting people & makes his way through to the World XXI card where he's sent back to the beginning starting all over again on a new journey
Personally I think the Hero's Journey is very ubiquitous because it's very abstract and boils things down to their most basic elements of a heroic/triumphant narrative, there exists many stories that don't follow the Hero's Journey and are still successful and interesting.