ERB has released a new battle just under a week ago featuring Karl Marx and Henry Ford. Would love to see your reaction to it as they really pull the historical skeletons from the closet.
My mother-in-law was born in Hawaii, of Japanese immigrant parents, who had owned a farm right next to Wheeler Airfield. Her family was interned and their farm was confiscated to expand the airfield. Decades later, she received $30k for the internment, but the government never paid her family for the land they appropriated.
Well I hate to hear that. And I don't agree with it I mean we really have to look at it like this if we would have attacked Japan first and we had Americans living over there what do you think would have probably happened to them? I'm probably worse and I'm not justifying the government's action trust me I hate our government I think it has too much power. At least you got paid for the internment even though in reality it should have never happened in the first place but that was probably done for the Japanese people safety. I'm sure I don't have to go over American history from the 40's an 60's the government was probably in a spot because they probably didn't want lynching to start happening to Japanese-Americans. Because I think we all know good and damn well that's probably what would've happened after Pearl harbor. Just like say if 9/11 would have happened in the forties or the 50s they're probably would have been a mass lynching of Muslims. So I mean that is also something to consider when we talked about internment camps. And trust me I don't agree with it at all. I'm just giving examples of the reasons why it was dome and I know there's more to it than just what I said but I'm pretty sure all of that played a role.
1:12:40 I love how Tojo completely backed himself and Japan into a corner by crushing the peace plans of Nomura and Konoe and then was like “wait. Shit. Maybe I shouldn’t have done that”.
@@michaeldewwJapan were the ones who put themselves in the corner with their actions in China and Indochina. The US was willing to compromise by accepting Nomuras draft proposal at 56:00, but Tojo and Matsuoka prevented it. As VTH says, the Japanese were the ones who put themselves in the no win situation. Frankly, the US would have been justified demanding an immediate complete and unconditional withdrawal from all of China (including Manchuria). Appeasement was proven in Europe to be a bad strategy after all (and I’d suspect the appeasement failures with the Nazis played a role in FDR and Hull hardening their demands). . Tojo’s “plan A and Plan B” were unreasonably stacked against the US and China. VTH points out how flawed those plans were (from a US perspective) and why the US wouldn’t agree to it
@@nathandorsey8157 the "wiggleroom" they gave japan was simply to give up their expansion into China, which became impossible after they created the very reason for their expansion in the first place; trade embargos. British also ceased their alliance with Japan due to seeking out the favor of the US which turned a former allied country towards the axis. In a world where the anglo japanese alliance held, and US does not simply declare war over the imperialist expansionism of Japan, the British and the US would potentially be looking at a western-minded asiatic superpower instead of forcing Japan onto a path there was simply no way out.
I assume we are talking about the Battles of Khalkhin Gol. If so I think the video has done a poor job of representing the conflict. On the whole. Overall the Soviets had about a 2:1 manpower advantage, and superior armor and air, and still took more losses than the Japanese. Although the overall result was a Soviet victory. Zhukov is lucky he was in the East, if he wasn't he would of likely been purged.
My grandmother was celebrating her 18th birthday in an LA park when they got news that Pearl Harbor had been attacked. Everyone was told to return home due to fears that the Japanese might had to the west coast next. I never could get anyone to give me the full details, but apparently she was close to someone killed in the attack and hated her birthday (12/7) for the rest of her life, to the point of being angry if anyone mentioned it. We visited Hawaii with her when I was around 8 or so and she insisted on a visit to the Park Harbor Memorial. I never did find out exactly who she lost there but there’s zero doubt she has a personal connection beyond just the coincidence of the attack being on her 18th birthday.
Hearing this is almost fanficton. But it's real and hard to understand. How could we, in the modern context, not look at this as American brainwashing. This attitude is so surreal to read when you're not American, but you make it feel real. Your grandmother must have really felt love for someone or something to have these reactions. Thanks for sharing.
Tell her it's not her fault. The Japanese military kinda went rouge on Japan and we had no idea how to deal with them without souring relations in the US Japan citizens. We ended putting them in camps and it was a sad reality back then. The Japanese are a fine distinguished people. Let the past be that and tell her to enjoy her family now
People need to watch Tora! Tora! Tora! Not only is it ten times better than that piece of garbage Micheal Bay called a Pearl Harbor movie its also one of the best historical movies in general.
My dad is a history buff and Tora, Tora, Tora is one of his favorite movies. I think I watched it with him when I was 12 or 13. It’s such a good movie.
@@kristincusick1342 I appreciated the fact that the movie didn’t depict the Japanese as the straight up villain and it acknowledged at the Americans made a lot of dumb mistakes that left Pearl Harbor vulnerable to attack
I recommend watching Kings and Generals video on the Battles of Khalkhin Gol or Nomonhan incident. The mentioned border clash between Japan and Soviet Union.
I have recently read the autobiography of Dusko Popov, the inspiration for James Bond ( he actually met Ian Fleming multiple times). In that there is a section where he details a Japanese visit to Taranto, where they examined the aftermath of the British attack. Pretty interesting stuff. In the book he also says that he warned the FBI when he was stationed in the US, but I’m not so sure about that part.
The warnings of the attack seem so obvious now but we have to remember that this is basically the first real use of aircraft carriers in actual combat (yes there was the British and Italian thing that is always mentioned as the precursor, but again, only because we know what happened later on). Everyone went into the war completely underestimating the ability of aircraft to take down ships. I mean imagine if you were the admirals watching anti aircraft gun drills, and the entire sky is completely filled with explosions (we’ve all seen the videos of it from documentaries) you would think there’s no way that a plane could get through that. When I see footage of planes flying through anti aircraft fire it’s mind boggling that anything could survive that. They were really imagining aircraft carriers as a way to transport fighters to the places that they could intercept bombers and take them down, not as an offensive weapon
"basically the first real use of aircraft carriers in actual combat" Eh? Europe had been at war for more than two years before the PH strike. The RN had lost 3 fleet carriers sunk by then, with thousands of lives lost, carried out many operations at sea including the Taranto strike, and had others so heavily damaged that they were sent to the US for repair in East Coast shipyards out of harm's way. Do you have a source for the statement that "imagining aircraft carriers as a way to transport fighters to the places that they could intercept bombers and take them down, not as an offensive weapon" ? It runs contrary to the then (39-43ish) carrier doctrines of not only the RN, but also the USN & IJN, not to mention the USN fleet problems circa 1930, IIRC it was Fleet Problem XIII in 1932.
Love your videos! Seriously enjoy the depth you bring to other great videos. One note...you mentioned that the rank of commodore isn't used anymore; however, though it is no longer a rank of it's own, it is still widely used an an hornorific for senior captains placed in positions of broad authority over sizable fleets and/or area commands of larger fleets. i.e., the navy needs to assign an O-6 to a high stress position with allot of responsibility, but it's not going to pay him/her any more for the extra work. Thanks for all of the time and effort you put into your videos. I can't wait to watch the next one!
It has been my routine for about a week now watching your videos before going to bed and just now realizing that I’m not even subscribed! Anyway, keep doing what you are doing, you’re videos are great!
My parents are from Indonesia, I know one of my grandmothers servants had her family, husband and sons killed by Japanese solders when they took over the country for its oil and rice. At that point my grandfather helped with a resistance effort sabotaging stuff
The 3 to 5 ratio was actually pretty generous since both the US and Britain had global expeditionary forces covering both the Pacific and Atlantic while Japan really only had interests in the Pacific so in reality if both Britain and the US have to evenly split their navy over two oceans neither alone would be overpowering Japans Navy in the Pacific.
FDR wanted a strong reason and justification to join the British to fight against Germany. Fighting Japan was not his priority. From what I understand, FDR was relieved that Hitler made it "easy" on FDR by declaring war on the US a few days after December 7.
Extra History hit most if not all of the points. You added some excellent commentary as always. USS Enterprise was supposed to port on December 6 but said to Frodo, "I was delayed." Refueling and a little mishap in a storm to a destroyer were the cause. Imagine if CV-6 had ported on December 6th without delay, or with just one delay had arrived the morning of December 7th. She would likely have been destroyed. Nomura seems to have been a good man. Besides our spy, there was another incident that may have also affected Japanese internment. A Zero crash landed on a remote island. The population did not know of the Attack on Pearl Harbor. They helped the downed pilot. Some of those who helped were of Japanese descent. Of course they might help a downed Japanese pilot unless they knew about the attack. Then they would have held him. The Japanese turned out to be very loyal to the U.S. And now for the rest of the story. Page 2. With the help of the civilians the Japanese pilot was able to torch his plane so it would be of no use to the Americans. There were a few camps in Hawaii with detainees held until 1946. It is true that most internment camps were on the West Coast of the U.S. This was the result of FDR's Executive Order 9066 signed on February 19, 1942. Japanese internment was an injustice. The Nisei or the 442nd Regimental Combat Team was one of the best combat units in the war for the US. Thank you for pointing them out.
Well it's not that we ignore you in American history good just not a state of the United States of America if I'm not mistaken you guys are only territory. Now if you guys ever wanted to actually become the 51th state that would probably be different. And I can't think of a single time I really ever heard us ever talk about United States territories. Just keepin it real I'm sure before Hawaii even became a state we didn't talk about it much it much.
I mean does the country of Puerto Rico want to be part of the Union?? I don't think you want to because technically if you're looking at it from a federalist perspective you can't leave the union join it. Now unless you like me and believe in states rights and belief states have the right to leave than the union aint for yall🤣 giving friendly advice.
We need to unilaterally grant your country independence, as of yesterday. You need to find your own way in the world and quit complaining about everything American.
My great aunt was born (has since passed away) on December 7th. The attack on Pearl Harbor happened exactly on her 7th birthday. Fortunately, she and her family were not living in Hawaii at all during the time.
My step dad's birthday is one of the single worst days in modern American history 9/11 an i was i believe 3 or 4 years old when 9/11 happened. And I believe my grandma's dad was actually there at pearl harbor.
Commodore is still used, it's not a rank in the States but it is still a title for senior Captains commanding larger groups, like multiple ships. In other navies it equivalent to a Rear Admiral.
True. In the surface Navy, the Commodore is usually a Captain (O-6 rank) of a command that oversees multiple ships, such as a destroyer squadron or task group. In naval aviation, it is the commander of a wing overseeing multiple aircraft squadrons.
One of my favorite things in naval history is that the first Admiral of the CSA Franklin Buchanan was serving as a officer on the same ship with Perry when they went to Japan. Franklin said that it was so hot everyone on their ship were stripped down to nothing but their pants and hats because of the heat but Perry was always in his full cotton dress outfit even in the hottest times of the year and they called Perry the "man of the bellows" or something along those lines lol, his biography Dring Sea Warrior was how I learned about the Japanese/USA meeting and my love of Naval warfare.
How tf does America know for nearly a year that they could soon be in conflict with Japan and they don't have a Japanese American who can speak Japanese in the code breakers?
Mr. VloggingThroughHistory, can you do more Asian history reaction/commentary? I love the sort of curiosity surrounding Asian culture and history from Western audiences. Thank you.
I can so relate to the decoder guy being intertupted. Seems like everytime I am doing something, someone wants me to be doing something else, no matter how important. Like the tim
B-29s were in the early stages of development. There was at least one non airworthy B-29 full scale prototype build by then. But you are correct they could not have been B-29s. Since no B-29 had been flown yet.
Bit of a funny tidbit: Throughout Japanese history, the other peoples of East Asia who interacted with the Japanese would always reference their height, since Japanese people are generally really short. The original name mentioned in Chinese records of Japan called them "wa" meaning dwarf. Later Japanese pirates were called "wakou" meaning dwarf pirate. Other peoples they traded with always called the Japanese dwarves. When Japanese troops occupied Indonesia and kicked out the Dutch, the Indonesians would called the Japanese "our short saviors," for about fiftedn secinds before the Japanese proved themselves to be 10,000 worse than the Dutch.
It's sad that December 7th has faded into obscurity, and it'll be a sad day when September 11th does. Also, the correct pronunciation of Hawaii was a nice touch
6:11 but the UK (and therefore British) didnt exist back then. The colonisation of that era was mainly driven by the spanish and Portuguese. Plus, if thats the first era of colonialism, then what the hell was rome doing. The name Lincoln literally comes from the city of Lincoln in the UK, which dates back to Roman times and is actually called "Lindum Colonia".
Regarding Japan brokering a peace between Thailand and French Indochina, the sudden performance of Thailand's air force during this short war raised a few eyebrows, to say the least...
The sugar barons were a huge part of Hawaii's annexation. It would have happened sooner if they had had their way but they were stymied by sugar growers in the mainland USA (who lobbied G Cleveland). Those guys in Hawaii wanted some power to play their 'bodyguard' against the native Hawaiians taking over again. McKinley had to move on that or Japan was going to.
Commodore is not a real rank in the US Navy. The title is given to a Captain who is in charge a specific group of units. Like when the man in charge of all the F18 units on the east coast shows up to a squadron. They'll announce the Commodore is coming.
So many little pieces of connections that happen in the lead up to the attack, if only a couple did not happen, probably, the attack would not have happened. Then, looking back at the attack, if a couple of things had gone differently, things would have been so much more devastating to the U.S. Naval Fleet.
I love this channel and all the information, and that was a thorough and easy-to-follow treatment. But I'm curious if I'm the only one who has mixed feelings about this kind of animation. I know it's to simplify, but it also makes the subject matter seem a bit slight. I could be completely wrong.
Honestly the lower level intentionality makes a lot of sense. Especially since, heck the whole invasion of China was basically mid-level officers violating orders.
You should do a video on the Japanese American regiments those were some real hard men and there's such a lack of good videos(if any) about them online. So if you're up to the challenge haha
Isoroku Yamamoto was against war with the US as he knew that they could not win a long drawn out war and he was one of the main figures behind it having to be quick and early before the oil fully dried up. He also knew that attacks in Guam, Midway, Wake, Hawai'i and all the SE Asian Colonies and islands wouldn't be enough, not taking out the naval base in San Francisco but that for peace to happen with the US they would need to march up to the White House gates. But despite his opposition to war with the US, once he knew that it was inevitable he put everything into it and not only copied the British attack on Taranto but perfected it, knowing that the harbour was shallow and putting wooden fins on the torpedoes so they didn't go so deep and imbed themselves on the sea floor. He had many opponents in the Japanese Imperial Military Command, particularly the Army, but he was well respected by the Naval personnel that served in the fleet with him. He was feared and respected by the US as to how good a military mind he was, that when American codebreakers intercepted his flight plan for his tour of the South Pacific following Midway that the US Admiralty arranged to shoot down his plane. But I am sure you knew all or at least of this Chris.
wikipedia says B-29 first fligth was 9.21.1942 (month is first, it is odd to say it like that as in finland we say day first and then month xD) and introduced in 8th of May in 1944 :D
Chris, I don't often disagree with your view on certain subjects, however your view on the Washington Treaty is based on myth and mirrors laid out by US authors on the treaty like Thomas H Buckley, who largely base their works on only US sources ( and yes I have a copy of Buckley's book;l which originally was from the Library of Albright College , Reading , Pensylvania....During which it had been taken by a student s3 times....yes it still has the library card in the back of the book with the names of the people who loaned it out). What it does not take in, is the broader view of the treaty across the other signatories to the treaty, US authors like to call "The Five Power Treaty", which is the one which limits naval ships, in which these authors are trying to say that the "British Empire" is a single country....which I think you will find a disagreement with that view from Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand- only India was not yet a truly independent nation and we were well on the way to being a "commonwealth" of nations- So this is not a 5 power treaty it is a 10 power treaty because the UK, CA, AU, ZA, NZ and IN all have separate signatories on this treaty ...along with the US, JP, FR and IT. Then there is the reasons for signing a naval treaty, where those self same US commentators try to suggest its all about making the world a safer place,. They start with the Anglo-German Naval race before WWI was a major reason for that war!- Complete trash, Tirpitz's plan to have a "great Navy to challenge the RN" had completely unraveled by 1911-12 ,because it the cost to build ships was impinging upon funds that the "German Army" needed....its been over for more than 2 years before WWI kicks off , so it is a fiction of the politicians of the 1920's who's failed web of alliances were the cause of that war . So what is the truth then; Its the Harding administration which did not want to spend money on constructing new ships in a future arms race with Japan and the Royal Navy (the French and the Italians don't really count here), and all the ship building advocates for a strong and "Modern USN" like Theodore Roosevelt, and Senator Ben Tillman had left politics or just died ,so there was nobody to argue against the policy. Get with the the truth which is this is its about American post WWI Isolationism. I cant however entirely but this cost cutting solely on the US; there was a view in the UK that we should build at a slightly slower rate (2 capital ships per year rather than 4) and pay down the war debt faster (a common British policy since before 1815)....and before anyone chirps in and says that that "Britain was BROKE after WWI", get your facts right..... the UK economic record data proves this is NOT the case. Britain could have afforded to construction of four 40k+ ton battleships and still payed off a reasonable amount debt in 1922-3 ( the G3 class was already ordered and down payments made to constructors). What is being described is the position of Britain post WWII, where yes we were technically a bankrupt nation by this point after 6 years of war preceded by a major recession during the 1930's. So whilst treaty negotiations do not go exactly to the Harding plan for the US, however they do get an on paper workable treaty system which lasts until the mid 1930's when Japan's militarists throw their toys out of the nursery. If people want a relatively balanced book on this subject, look for "The Washington Naval Conference 1921-22" by Goldsten and Maurer ISBN 0-7146-4136-7 - It is much better balances because it is a collation of essays from multiple academics, who understand the naval policies of the signatories.....Or if you are a bit lazy and cant be bothered to find and read the book.... look the subject up on Dr Alexander Clarke's (No relation) UA-cam channel (be prepared for an indepth marathon)
Also.. the disparity of the agreed limits on the numbers of warships allowed to be built was based on the distant territories, of each country, which they had to factor in. The UK and US had territories in seas FAR from home, across oceans, on different continents. It was the reason given. Japan's territory was almost completely right around Japan, and had just a few small islands in the western and mid-Pacific at the time. They didn't have to send fleets all the way across oceans to other continents and, therefore, didn't require as large a fleet for their defense. Which is what was being considered in the treaty. Simplifying it by saying, "it was racism", as in this video, was a gross mischaracterization of the reason for the numbers. That's not a denial of such things existing, in both directions, but defaulting to it was just lazy hand-waving.
There is some dark irony in the fact that there was a US naval officer named Matthew Perry and then the actor Matthew Perry just recently died from drowning. It's not funny, but it is ironic.
Admiral Kimmel, the scapegoat and victim as CINCPAC, would agree with the statement about FDR knowing and allowing the attack; he wrote a book about it.
He was I mean the mistake was made by so many parties that you can't just put that on Kimmel even General Short to lesser extent although there are judgements he made which I defintely hold squarely at him such as the spotting of planes for example but both were for the most part responding appropriately with the information they had and was confirmed. The problem was there was so much mistakes on so many levels you can't just level it at 2 people.
Hey I like watching your show and I hope this is one of those oops things rather than a lack of knowledge, but it was Franklin Roosevelt, not Theodore Roosevelt.
Asymmetrical warfare is necessary against a stronger opponent. Vietnam and the Middle East are experts of this strategy. The superpower nations have really no good countermeasures for dealing with asymmetrical warfare.
The US needed to get into the war militarily, not just economically.. but public support was not behind it. How do you get that public support?.. get attacked first. I think those in power didn`t know the exact details of what was coming and when.. But they knew who, they knew why, and concerning the where... They may not have known the true power of carrier warfare yet, but they knew enough not to have any sitting idle in harbor.
Just because I ended doing a research paper on the late Tokugawa trade networks and the American forced opening of Japan: to be very blunt, we were not heroes. Perry had been given a maybe the year before and a deadline to come back on. He came back months before it while Japanese lords were discussing it, the Dutch were advising them to open, and the Japanese were basically leaning towards opening. Perry broke the agreement to let them decide to instead do a show of force. The Japanese NEVER forgot how disrespectful that was to them. Because this wasn't the first time America had tried to do that, not even with the first Perry mission. They hated America for their forced opening. That was a major driver for Japan: revenge for that. It didn't matter that even they acknowledged the net good opening was. The way we went about it from the start soured them on us. They just knew they had to build their defenses first. America too often sanitizes their role and starts this story too late. We need to correct that.
I'm currently at 1:03:39 when I make this comment but, theoretically do you (and fellow commentors) think Japan would've surrendered due to lack of oil supply or you think they'd find other ways to keep fighting?
They would have found another way to fight if we wouldn't have dropped the nukes and it would have been an invasion of the Japanese mainland I think the military who would have sacrificed every man woman an child. And let's be real with each other here Joseph Stalin was not going to negotiate with Japan he just wasn't he wanted to expand the empire of russia an communism... I really don't know what the emperor of Japan could have done. I dont know how that power dynamic worked out between him and his military but it seems like he was really letting his military walk all over him.
Love this topic, especially when it doesn't shy away from the fact that Pearl Harbor was not the unprovoked and completely isolated attack we make it out to be. Japan had to do something... They chose poorly.
Yeah and China's strategy of "let them come" actually was them just retreating defeat after defeat XD To think they would rename it to that. I think the issue was that both armies were absolutely massive, especially the Chinese armies, and they were less coordinated and were probably very hard to maneuver.
@@ethanchen4504 I was mostly referring to the string of American foreign policy decisions that backed Japan into a corner they misguidedly thought they could fight their way out of. I don't know a ton about the Japanese offensive against the Chinese. Mostly, I roughly understand the scale of atrocity. There's some sort of barrier in the West to learning and fully understanding Eastern conflict. The most shameful part to me, is the fact that what happened in China was known, but didn't factor into Western war policy, at all.
@@Onnabote There's this one site China has preserved where the US bombarded a cultural heritage site and robbed all the valuables there. It's very propped up by the country, but I find it sort of hard to believe. It's one of the main teaching points in their schools unfortunately.
@@ethanchen4504 I actually watched a bunch of videos regarding the lead up to Pearl Harbor today. I didn't know how much the invasion of Manchuria and the knowledge of what was happening did effect American sentiment and peace talks at the time. And that America's willingness to go to war with Japan hinged on whether or not they were willing to abandon their invasion of China. It's not surprising how biased and limited our education of our own history is, considering our own hands weren't entirely clean. I didn't know about any US incursion into China. Thanks for that info. I'll definitely look into it.
Thanks for the overdose of “what-about-ism” and blame deflecting. Japanese chose war over peace because they thought it would be more advantageous and profitable to them, just as they chose war and atrocities against China and other neighboring countries.
sometimes it fascinates me how history is long periods of minor or major events that are just part of the status quo, and then once in a while something occurs that changes the course of history and how if it didnt happen the entire world would be different. for example, the birth of Attila set in motion a chain of events that brought down the western roman empire, if attila wasnt born or if he went east to china instead of west, europe wouldnt have had the countless germanic and slavic migrations. entire cultures would be different and even if the WRE still collapses, the nations that replaced it would be ethnically and culturally different from what we know today. or if Napoleon was never selected to lead the army in italy. Or if Caesar lost the battle of Alesia. or if the bronze age collapse didnt happen, would the ancient hittites or egyptians have made an empire that spread across the coast of north africa and the middle east? would Catholicism even have risen if ancient egypt never collapsed. what if colombus had been lost at sea, how many more decades would it have taken for europe to discover the new world and actually be interested in settling it. what if the black plague didnt happen, would europe even have been in a position to finance an expedition west when everyone is starving and fighting over the limited resources in europe?
See this is where a lot of Conspiracy Theories come from. The Conspiracy Theorists actually are very intelligent and kind and cannot conceive of the fact that people can be so utterly completely incompetent and stupid to do crap like this and so use Occam's Razor to reject such a comedy of errors in favor of simple intention. Even now with all we've been through in the past 10 years I personally find it unbelievable that so much stupidity could be squeezed into just a handful of people. My disbelief is only tempered by my contempt for the ruling class and the knowledge of their utter and vile corruption.
I was asked once if I thought ww2 would have happened without Hitler. I am of the opinion it would have because of all the fighting going on in other places. It would have just been focused somewhere else.
One thing I've always wondered that he/ you bring up is...well why *didn't* the Soviets join the Axis really. They didn't really like the Democracies I think and would have greatly bolstered the Axis. Probably would have won unless we get the nuke before everyone? That said Manhattan Project had spies so maybe not. Also Hitler wouldn't have made the biggest mistake of his life by breaking NAP he had with Stalin and focusing on the western front. Maybe southern with Africa. Don't get me wrong. Obviously appreciate that it happened the way it did but just for the thought experiment
The problem with that is that Hitler despised Russia perhaps even more than he did any other political enemy, belief, or race. I don't think there was ever really a reality where the Soviets and Nazi Germany weren't gonna come to blows eventually.
Because Hitler wouldn’t allow it. Stalin probably wouldn’t trust it anyway. Both Hitler and Stalin knew the MR pact was only temporary (Stalin just didn’t know HOW temporary it was) and that an eventual conflict between the two was inevitable. The two ideologically opposite countries couldn’t possibly have stayed at peace forever. That’s not to mention the main goal of the Nazis was to eliminate the “untermensch” (which Slavs were in the eyes of the Nazis) and gain their living space. The USSR was perhaps the main thing the Nazis wanted. So an actual alliance was impossible.
The Nazis first and most lasting enemy were the Communists, in spite of the Non-Aggression Pact and there was no way that the Soviets would be able to "join the Axis" and remain Communist. In fact, the first "concentration camp", Dachau, was originally built to incarcerate Communists, Socialists, and Trade Unionists--in other words, political enemies. Interestingly, Himmler, the head of the Nazi SS saw that the war was going against Germany and attempted to engage with US and British leaders to unite with a Himmler led Germany and together fight the Soviets. Fascinating to consider the "what if" of that scenario.
Those who have trouble with me imperialism: colonization WAS going to happen the technological and industrial strengths of the developed world WILL win this, so the question is, who would you rather have? Not to say this is an easy question to answer. It's human nature, which isn't necessary moral or good.
Ah, teleology, the art of predicting something had to happen because it did happen and then finding moral and philosophical reasons as to why it had to happen. Colonization was far from inevitable. The Industrial Revolution could never have happened; heck, China was better situated during the 18th century to dominate the world economy, and not necessarily by colonizing other places. Colonization was the result of centuries of contingent events like the Reconquista and the monopolization of trade routes by the Ottomans and the Italian city-states, which encouraged Portugal and then Spain to go exploring, which prompted other powers to follow their leads, etc... 19th-20th-century imperialism was the product of a race between old and emerging powers to not be outdone. Also, regarding the implied moral superiority of the Western world, I'm going to let you stew in that for a moment and think about it.
The timing is wrong on the RussoJapanese war. Kalkon Gol. It started first week in August. The Russian German pact was last week of August And Germany attacked Poland the 1st of september. So for the Russians they where very close to the worst scenario a simultaneous war against Germany and Russia. So they agreed to a pact with the Nazis. Then Germany attacked Poland. But Russia didnt attack until the day after the ceasefire with Japan. And than they attacked Germans in the Soviet zone. So we are not even close to the truth.
It was not a surprise attack, the US military knew it was coming and drop the ball. Ok, this series has given me new insight and I might hold a bad position. :) I wonder how much sexism played in a lot of this.
"There's a racial component to this." Proceeds to explain Eurocentric views of the Far East. Doesn't bring up how the imperial Japanese view the rest of the world.
That was going to happen one way or another it was just who and when. America in this case just wanted to be first. There was already limited trade with the Dutch but France, British Empire and even the Germans had designs to opening up Japan because of the trade opportunities it presented America playing catch up wanted to not just get in on the action but beat them to the punch.
Extra history is an entertaining channel but they've become so political with an America bad mentality. Talking about U.S. expansionism without mentioning the similar Japanese mentality along with glossing over the atrocities in Nanking while condemning the U.S. public's reaction as being more about the loss of American life are just a few examples of the narrative building this channel does now. Yes America had issues with racial views around the world, but this video is hell bent on portraying Japan as a country without agency, foisted into war by the west without adding the context of Japan's desire to expand, the atrocities committed by Japan leading to the oil embargo, and the support of the Japanese government to invade and expand by its military. Just mentioning what happened in Nanking as "reports of mass murder," no there was absolutely mass murder. It was one of the largest reasons world sentiment turned against Japan and it was grossly understated in its scale and scope on a world stage.
Add another point, they gloss over the Japanese Racial Equality clause. It wasn't a statement of Universal Equality or non-existence that would come to mind today but rather a statement that races exist with the European derived ones being supreme and the Japanese being on par with them. A way to justify being an Imperial Power in Asia.
@zuikasa4503 exactly! I would understand if they're trying to make the video informative without being overly cumbersome with information. However there's a particular degree of specificity with the minute details related to the western powers.
Ha yes Japan messed with our boats so we decided to drop the sun two times on Japan. Now that they have learned their lesson they are trying their best to keep us occupied with anime. Oh how Japan has changed. Thanks to America. Don't mess with our s*** and definitely don't mess with our boats... Because remember it's never a war crime the first time...
December 7th 1941 a day which will live in infamy. The day the empire of Japan decided to take the road leading directly to dragon ball z and big tiddy anime waifus.
Just a note to long-time subscribers, this was originally recorded and uploaded in separate episodes last year.
Guess I'll just have to watch it again then!
ERB has released a new battle just under a week ago featuring Karl Marx and Henry Ford. Would love to see your reaction to it as they really pull the historical skeletons from the closet.
Thank u for everything u do
Like it when this is done means I can chuck on and not have to worry about choosing next vid
You should do the Worl War Two channel's Pearl Harbor series next year!
My mother-in-law was born in Hawaii, of Japanese immigrant parents, who had owned a farm right next to Wheeler Airfield. Her family was interned and their farm was confiscated to expand the airfield. Decades later, she received $30k for the internment, but the government never paid her family for the land they appropriated.
Well I hate to hear that. And I don't agree with it I mean we really have to look at it like this if we would have attacked Japan first and we had Americans living over there what do you think would have probably happened to them? I'm probably worse and I'm not justifying the government's action trust me I hate our government I think it has too much power. At least you got paid for the internment even though in reality it should have never happened in the first place but that was probably done for the Japanese people safety. I'm sure I don't have to go over American history from the 40's an 60's the government was probably in a spot because they probably didn't want lynching to start happening to Japanese-Americans. Because I think we all know good and damn well that's probably what would've happened after Pearl harbor. Just like say if 9/11 would have happened in the forties or the 50s they're probably would have been a mass lynching of Muslims. So I mean that is also something to consider when we talked about internment camps. And trust me I don't agree with it at all. I'm just giving examples of the reasons why it was dome and I know there's more to it than just what I said but I'm pretty sure all of that played a role.
1:12:40 I love how Tojo completely backed himself and Japan into a corner by crushing the peace plans of Nomura and Konoe and then was like “wait. Shit. Maybe I shouldn’t have done that”.
It's crazy how much Japan actually tried to avoid war between the United States . Though the United States did not give much wiggle room.
@@michaeldewwJapan were the ones who put themselves in the corner with their actions in China and Indochina. The US was willing to compromise by accepting Nomuras draft proposal at 56:00, but Tojo and Matsuoka prevented it. As VTH says, the Japanese were the ones who put themselves in the no win situation.
Frankly, the US would have been justified demanding an immediate complete and unconditional withdrawal from all of China (including Manchuria). Appeasement was proven in Europe to be a bad strategy after all (and I’d suspect the appeasement failures with the Nazis played a role in FDR and Hull hardening their demands).
. Tojo’s “plan A and Plan B” were unreasonably stacked against the US and China. VTH points out how flawed those plans were (from a US perspective) and why the US wouldn’t agree to it
@michaeldew9279 they gave Japan wiggleroom, but japan kept making choices over the years that backed them into a corner
@@nathandorsey8157 the "wiggleroom" they gave japan was simply to give up their expansion into China, which became impossible after they created the very reason for their expansion in the first place; trade embargos. British also ceased their alliance with Japan due to seeking out the favor of the US which turned a former allied country towards the axis. In a world where the anglo japanese alliance held, and US does not simply declare war over the imperialist expansionism of Japan, the British and the US would potentially be looking at a western-minded asiatic superpower instead of forcing Japan onto a path there was simply no way out.
@thedamntrain3467 they did give Japan an option out, but Japan's military leaders had their heads too far up their asses to see it.
Have I watched this already? Yes.
Will I watch it again? Yes
29:24 The local Soviet commander who encircled and destroyed the Japanese forces was Georgy Zhukov
I assume we are talking about the Battles of Khalkhin Gol. If so I think the video has done a poor job of representing the conflict. On the whole. Overall the Soviets had about a 2:1 manpower advantage, and superior armor and air, and still took more losses than the Japanese. Although the overall result was a Soviet victory. Zhukov is lucky he was in the East, if he wasn't he would of likely been purged.
loving the long form content. perfect to listen to while doing a bunch of work!
"You know who" I love how Woody Wilson is the Voldemort of this channel lol.
He who shall not be named
Thank you for compiling these! Love your stuff
Loved this the first time. Stoked to watch the supercut. Cheers from Ontario, Canada
My grandmother was celebrating her 18th birthday in an LA park when they got news that Pearl Harbor had been attacked. Everyone was told to return home due to fears that the Japanese might had to the west coast next. I never could get anyone to give me the full details, but apparently she was close to someone killed in the attack and hated her birthday (12/7) for the rest of her life, to the point of being angry if anyone mentioned it. We visited Hawaii with her when I was around 8 or so and she insisted on a visit to the Park Harbor Memorial. I never did find out exactly who she lost there but there’s zero doubt she has a personal connection beyond just the coincidence of the attack being on her 18th birthday.
Hearing this is almost fanficton. But it's real and hard to understand. How could we, in the modern context, not look at this as American brainwashing. This attitude is so surreal to read when you're not American, but you make it feel real. Your grandmother must have really felt love for someone or something to have these reactions. Thanks for sharing.
Tell her it's not her fault. The Japanese military kinda went rouge on Japan and we had no idea how to deal with them without souring relations in the US Japan citizens. We ended putting them in camps and it was a sad reality back then. The Japanese are a fine distinguished people. Let the past be that and tell her to enjoy her family now
@DustyNinjaBoi
Given the context (specifically, "for the rest of her life") I think it's a little too late.
Was waiting for this, thanks VTH for this, another high quality reaction video! keep it up!❤
I like this compilation, you should do that to all your reaction series.
so thankful for these compilations of your content and the shows you are adding review too
Tojo: Orders Pearl Harbor attack.
*Learns how difficult a US War would be*
Tojo: I immediately regret this decision!
This was great. To have it broken down this way made it easy to understand. 👍🙂
People need to watch Tora! Tora! Tora! Not only is it ten times better than that piece of garbage Micheal Bay called a Pearl Harbor movie its also one of the best historical movies in general.
I agree with this 100%
Accurate. Loved that movie.
My dad is a history buff and Tora, Tora, Tora is one of his favorite movies.
I think I watched it with him when I was 12 or 13.
It’s such a good movie.
@@kristincusick1342 I appreciated the fact that the movie didn’t depict the Japanese as the straight up villain and it acknowledged at the Americans made a lot of dumb mistakes that left Pearl Harbor vulnerable to attack
I recommend watching Kings and Generals video on the Battles of Khalkhin Gol or Nomonhan incident. The mentioned border clash between Japan and Soviet Union.
I have recently read the autobiography of Dusko Popov, the inspiration for James Bond ( he actually met Ian Fleming multiple times). In that there is a section where he details a Japanese visit to Taranto, where they examined the aftermath of the British attack. Pretty interesting stuff. In the book he also says that he warned the FBI when he was stationed in the US, but I’m not so sure about that part.
dusko popov is not james bond, sir christopher lee was
The warnings of the attack seem so obvious now but we have to remember that this is basically the first real use of aircraft carriers in actual combat (yes there was the British and Italian thing that is always mentioned as the precursor, but again, only because we know what happened later on). Everyone went into the war completely underestimating the ability of aircraft to take down ships. I mean imagine if you were the admirals watching anti aircraft gun drills, and the entire sky is completely filled with explosions (we’ve all seen the videos of it from documentaries) you would think there’s no way that a plane could get through that. When I see footage of planes flying through anti aircraft fire it’s mind boggling that anything could survive that. They were really imagining aircraft carriers as a way to transport fighters to the places that they could intercept bombers and take them down, not as an offensive weapon
"basically the first real use of aircraft carriers in actual combat"
Eh?
Europe had been at war for more than two years before the PH strike. The RN had lost 3 fleet carriers sunk by then, with thousands of lives lost, carried out many operations at sea including the Taranto strike, and had others so heavily damaged that they were sent to the US for repair in East Coast shipyards out of harm's way.
Do you have a source for the statement that "imagining aircraft carriers as a way to transport fighters to the places that they could intercept bombers and take them down, not as an offensive weapon" ? It runs contrary to the then (39-43ish) carrier doctrines of not only the RN, but also the USN & IJN, not to mention the USN fleet problems circa 1930, IIRC it was Fleet Problem XIII in 1932.
Love your videos! Seriously enjoy the depth you bring to other great videos. One note...you mentioned that the rank of commodore isn't used anymore; however, though it is no longer a rank of it's own, it is still widely used an an hornorific for senior captains placed in positions of broad authority over sizable fleets and/or area commands of larger fleets. i.e., the navy needs to assign an O-6 to a high stress position with allot of responsibility, but it's not going to pay him/her any more for the extra work. Thanks for all of the time and effort you put into your videos. I can't wait to watch the next one!
It has been my routine for about a week now watching your videos before going to bed and just now realizing that I’m not even subscribed! Anyway, keep doing what you are doing, you’re videos are great!
Thank you!
My parents are from Indonesia, I know one of my grandmothers servants had her family, husband and sons killed by Japanese solders when they took over the country for its oil and rice. At that point my grandfather helped with a resistance effort sabotaging stuff
The 3 to 5 ratio was actually pretty generous since both the US and Britain had global expeditionary forces covering both the Pacific and Atlantic while Japan really only had interests in the Pacific so in reality if both Britain and the US have to evenly split their navy over two oceans neither alone would be overpowering Japans Navy in the Pacific.
FDR wanted a strong reason and justification to join the British to fight against Germany. Fighting Japan was not his priority. From what I understand, FDR was relieved that Hitler made it "easy" on FDR by declaring war on the US a few days after December 7.
Love the content dude, found you a while ago and refound your channel after watching some Mr Beat content, good job dude I hit subscribe
Appreciate it. Welcome to the VTH Community! I'll be back on with Mr Beat on Monday.
Extra History hit most if not all of the points. You added some excellent commentary as always.
USS Enterprise was supposed to port on December 6 but said to Frodo, "I was delayed." Refueling and a little mishap in a storm to a destroyer were the cause. Imagine if CV-6 had ported on December 6th without delay, or with just one delay had arrived the morning of December 7th. She would likely have been destroyed.
Nomura seems to have been a good man.
Besides our spy, there was another incident that may have also affected Japanese internment. A Zero crash landed on a remote island. The population did not know of the Attack on Pearl Harbor. They helped the downed pilot. Some of those who helped were of Japanese descent. Of course they might help a downed Japanese pilot unless they knew about the attack. Then they would have held him. The Japanese turned out to be very loyal to the U.S.
And now for the rest of the story. Page 2. With the help of the civilians the Japanese pilot was able to torch his plane so it would be of no use to the Americans.
There were a few camps in Hawaii with detainees held until 1946. It is true that most internment camps were on the West Coast of the U.S. This was the result of FDR's Executive Order 9066 signed on February 19, 1942. Japanese internment was an injustice.
The Nisei or the 442nd Regimental Combat Team was one of the best combat units in the war for the US. Thank you for pointing them out.
I love watching Tony Romo break down history!!
I sent a package to you many months back from Nebraska, did you ever receive it? I haven’t seen it in a video yet
What was in it? That might help me to know.
@@VloggingThroughHistory a Nebraska flag along with a note
Oh! Yes. I have that. Will include in the next one.
Happy Puerto Rico was mentioned lol
As a Puerto Rican it’s so weird how we are almost ignored in American history
Well it's not that we ignore you in American history good just not a state of the United States of America if I'm not mistaken you guys are only territory. Now if you guys ever wanted to actually become the 51th state that would probably be different. And I can't think of a single time I really ever heard us ever talk about United States territories. Just keepin it real I'm sure before Hawaii even became a state we didn't talk about it much it much.
I mean does the country of Puerto Rico want to be part of the Union?? I don't think you want to because technically if you're looking at it from a federalist perspective you can't leave the union join it. Now unless you like me and believe in states rights and belief states have the right to leave than the union aint for yall🤣 giving friendly advice.
We need to unilaterally grant your country independence, as of yesterday.
You need to find your own way in the world and quit complaining about everything American.
Love the compilation. I press play and just let it run while I work out.
I got in a fight with a Japanese man who let his kids drip ice cream on the pearl harbor monument.
My great aunt was born (has since passed away) on December 7th. The attack on Pearl Harbor happened exactly on her 7th birthday. Fortunately, she and her family were not living in Hawaii at all during the time.
My step dad's birthday is one of the single worst days in modern American history 9/11 an i was i believe 3 or 4 years old when 9/11 happened. And I believe my grandma's dad was actually there at pearl harbor.
@@scottbivins4758My cousin turned 15 when 9/11 happened, while I was 10 years old at the time.
Commodore is still used, it's not a rank in the States but it is still a title for senior Captains commanding larger groups, like multiple ships. In other navies it equivalent to a Rear Admiral.
True. In the surface Navy, the Commodore is usually a Captain (O-6 rank) of a command that oversees multiple ships, such as a destroyer squadron or task group. In naval aviation, it is the commander of a wing overseeing multiple aircraft squadrons.
These are perfect to watch before bed. You learn, relax etc
One of my favorite things in naval history is that the first Admiral of the CSA Franklin Buchanan was serving as a officer on the same ship with Perry when they went to Japan. Franklin said that it was so hot everyone on their ship were stripped down to nothing but their pants and hats because of the heat but Perry was always in his full cotton dress outfit even in the hottest times of the year and they called Perry the "man of the bellows" or something along those lines lol, his biography Dring Sea Warrior was how I learned about the Japanese/USA meeting and my love of Naval warfare.
How tf does America know for nearly a year that they could soon be in conflict with Japan and they don't have a Japanese American who can speak Japanese in the code breakers?
Mr. VloggingThroughHistory, can you do more Asian history reaction/commentary? I love the sort of curiosity surrounding Asian culture and history from Western audiences. Thank you.
I can so relate to the decoder guy being intertupted. Seems like everytime I am doing something, someone wants me to be doing something else, no matter how important. Like the tim
John Costello authored a great book on the path to Pearl Harbor: "The Pacific War" (2009). Good read, I used it a source when I was working on my PhD.
1:23:30 Theodore Roosevelt...?
Btw, new to the channel but love your content.
Extra history are awesome 🎉🎉🎉🎉
As a Belgian i ahd the same response 31:35 🤣
Oh boy, do I love compilations.
B-29s were in the early stages of development. There was at least one non airworthy B-29 full scale prototype build by then. But you are correct they could not have been B-29s. Since no B-29 had been flown yet.
The night of Dec 7, 1941 is best known for the soundest, sweetest sleep Winston Churchill had had in a few years.
@1:26:07 unless I’m missing something, I don’t see how believing “Japan doesn’t have the capability” is racist.
Bit of a funny tidbit: Throughout Japanese history, the other peoples of East Asia who interacted with the Japanese would always reference their height, since Japanese people are generally really short. The original name mentioned in Chinese records of Japan called them "wa" meaning dwarf. Later Japanese pirates were called "wakou" meaning dwarf pirate. Other peoples they traded with always called the Japanese dwarves.
When Japanese troops occupied Indonesia and kicked out the Dutch, the Indonesians would called the Japanese "our short saviors," for about fiftedn secinds before the Japanese proved themselves to be 10,000 worse than the Dutch.
It's sad that December 7th has faded into obscurity, and it'll be a sad day when September 11th does. Also, the correct pronunciation of Hawaii was a nice touch
18:29 "The brain child of you know you?" So Voldemort, right? :p
Actually Mathew Perry was Chandler Bing in the hit TV show Friends
RIP Chanandler Bong
The Japanese fleet set sale on November 26th, 1941
Decisions. Decisions? Which to watch. Vlogging or Reel History. Guess I’ll go back and forth.
His Iwo Jima video is awesome. You should definitely check it out.
Glad we have both you guys.
6:11 but the UK (and therefore British) didnt exist back then. The colonisation of that era was mainly driven by the spanish and Portuguese.
Plus, if thats the first era of colonialism, then what the hell was rome doing. The name Lincoln literally comes from the city of Lincoln in the UK, which dates back to Roman times and is actually called "Lindum Colonia".
Regarding Japan brokering a peace between Thailand and French Indochina, the sudden performance of Thailand's air force during this short war raised a few eyebrows, to say the least...
15:00
I’ve heard it is cheaper for Japanese golfers to fly to Hawaii to play golf, then it is to have a golf membership in Japan.
The sugar barons were a huge part of Hawaii's annexation. It would have happened sooner if they had had their way but they were stymied by sugar growers in the mainland USA (who lobbied G Cleveland). Those guys in Hawaii wanted some power to play their 'bodyguard' against the native Hawaiians taking over again. McKinley had to move on that or Japan was going to.
Commodore is not a real rank in the US Navy. The title is given to a Captain who is in charge a specific group of units. Like when the man in charge of all the F18 units on the east coast shows up to a squadron. They'll announce the Commodore is coming.
Not anymore, no. But from 1862-1899 it was an actual rank in the US Navy.
Willmington delawere is founded by Sweden in 1638
So many little pieces of connections that happen in the lead up to the attack, if only a couple did not happen, probably, the attack would not have happened. Then, looking back at the attack, if a couple of things had gone differently, things would have been so much more devastating to the U.S. Naval Fleet.
Extra history has made a series on Henry Ford you think you might react to that series?
I love this channel and all the information, and that was a thorough and easy-to-follow treatment. But I'm curious if I'm the only one who has mixed feelings about this kind of animation. I know it's to simplify, but it also makes the subject matter seem a bit slight. I could be completely wrong.
Honestly the lower level intentionality makes a lot of sense. Especially since, heck the whole invasion of China was basically mid-level officers violating orders.
You should do a video on the Japanese American regiments those were some real hard men and there's such a lack of good videos(if any) about them online. So if you're up to the challenge haha
Isoroku Yamamoto was against war with the US as he knew that they could not win a long drawn out war and he was one of the main figures behind it having to be quick and early before the oil fully dried up. He also knew that attacks in Guam, Midway, Wake, Hawai'i and all the SE Asian Colonies and islands wouldn't be enough, not taking out the naval base in San Francisco but that for peace to happen with the US they would need to march up to the White House gates. But despite his opposition to war with the US, once he knew that it was inevitable he put everything into it and not only copied the British attack on Taranto but perfected it, knowing that the harbour was shallow and putting wooden fins on the torpedoes so they didn't go so deep and imbed themselves on the sea floor.
He had many opponents in the Japanese Imperial Military Command, particularly the Army, but he was well respected by the Naval personnel that served in the fleet with him. He was feared and respected by the US as to how good a military mind he was, that when American codebreakers intercepted his flight plan for his tour of the South Pacific following Midway that the US Admiralty arranged to shoot down his plane.
But I am sure you knew all or at least of this Chris.
wikipedia says B-29 first fligth was 9.21.1942 (month is first, it is odd to say it like that as in finland we say day first and then month xD) and introduced in 8th of May in 1944 :D
Chris,
I don't often disagree with your view on certain subjects, however your view on the Washington Treaty is based on myth and mirrors laid out by US authors on the treaty like Thomas H Buckley, who largely base their works on only US sources ( and yes I have a copy of Buckley's book;l which originally was from the Library of Albright College , Reading , Pensylvania....During which it had been taken by a student s3 times....yes it still has the library card in the back of the book with the names of the people who loaned it out).
What it does not take in, is the broader view of the treaty across the other signatories to the treaty, US authors like to call "The Five Power Treaty", which is the one which limits naval ships, in which these authors are trying to say that the "British Empire" is a single country....which I think you will find a disagreement with that view from Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand- only India was not yet a truly independent nation and we were well on the way to being a "commonwealth" of nations- So this is not a 5 power treaty it is a 10 power treaty because the UK, CA, AU, ZA, NZ and IN all have separate signatories on this treaty ...along with the US, JP, FR and IT.
Then there is the reasons for signing a naval treaty, where those self same US commentators try to suggest its all about making the world a safer place,. They start with the Anglo-German Naval race before WWI was a major reason for that war!- Complete trash, Tirpitz's plan to have a "great Navy to challenge the RN" had completely unraveled by 1911-12 ,because it the cost to build ships was impinging upon funds that the "German Army" needed....its been over for more than 2 years before WWI kicks off , so it is a fiction of the politicians of the 1920's who's failed web of alliances were the cause of that war .
So what is the truth then; Its the Harding administration which did not want to spend money on constructing new ships in a future arms race with Japan and the Royal Navy (the French and the Italians don't really count here), and all the ship building advocates for a strong and "Modern USN" like Theodore Roosevelt, and Senator Ben Tillman had left politics or just died ,so there was nobody to argue against the policy. Get with the the truth which is this is its about American post WWI Isolationism.
I cant however entirely but this cost cutting solely on the US; there was a view in the UK that we should build at a slightly slower rate (2 capital ships per year rather than 4) and pay down the war debt faster (a common British policy since before 1815)....and before anyone chirps in and says that that "Britain was BROKE after WWI", get your facts right..... the UK economic record data proves this is NOT the case. Britain could have afforded to construction of four 40k+ ton battleships and still payed off a reasonable amount debt in 1922-3 ( the G3 class was already ordered and down payments made to constructors). What is being described is the position of Britain post WWII, where yes we were technically a bankrupt nation by this point after 6 years of war preceded by a major recession during the 1930's.
So whilst treaty negotiations do not go exactly to the Harding plan for the US, however they do get an on paper workable treaty system which lasts until the mid 1930's when Japan's militarists throw their toys out of the nursery.
If people want a relatively balanced book on this subject, look for "The Washington Naval Conference 1921-22" by Goldsten and Maurer ISBN 0-7146-4136-7 - It is much better balances because it is a collation of essays from multiple academics, who understand the naval policies of the signatories.....Or if you are a bit lazy and cant be bothered to find and read the book.... look the subject up on Dr Alexander Clarke's (No relation) UA-cam channel (be prepared for an indepth marathon)
Also.. the disparity of the agreed limits on the numbers of warships allowed to be built was based on the distant territories, of each country, which they had to factor in. The UK and US had territories in seas FAR from home, across oceans, on different continents. It was the reason given. Japan's territory was almost completely right around Japan, and had just a few small islands in the western and mid-Pacific at the time. They didn't have to send fleets all the way across oceans to other continents and, therefore, didn't require as large a fleet for their defense. Which is what was being considered in the treaty.
Simplifying it by saying, "it was racism", as in this video, was a gross mischaracterization of the reason for the numbers. That's not a denial of such things existing, in both directions, but defaulting to it was just lazy hand-waving.
Uncle ruckus no relations🤣🤣🇺🇸
There is some dark irony in the fact that there was a US naval officer named Matthew Perry and then the actor Matthew Perry just recently died from drowning. It's not funny, but it is ironic.
This is a message for youtube. Sort your adverts out they are to long and numerous.
Admiral Kimmel, the scapegoat and victim as CINCPAC, would agree with the statement about FDR knowing and allowing the attack; he wrote a book about it.
He was I mean the mistake was made by so many parties that you can't just put that on Kimmel even General Short to lesser extent although there are judgements he made which I defintely hold squarely at him such as the spotting of planes for example but both were for the most part responding appropriately with the information they had and was confirmed. The problem was there was so much mistakes on so many levels you can't just level it at 2 people.
Hey I like watching your show and I hope this is one of those oops things rather than a lack of knowledge, but it was Franklin Roosevelt, not Theodore Roosevelt.
Asymmetrical warfare is necessary against a stronger opponent. Vietnam and the Middle East are experts of this strategy.
The superpower nations have really no good countermeasures for dealing with asymmetrical warfare.
1:23:30 I don't think Theodore Roosevelt knew anything about Pearl Harbor. :-)
Hahaha yeah.
You definitly need to watch some drachinifel
"im not justifying... What are you gonna do?"
As a citizen of one of those countries USA... GOBBLED UP, wooooah.
You a Texan? 🤣🤣🇺🇸
The US needed to get into the war militarily, not just economically.. but public support was not behind it. How do you get that public support?.. get attacked first. I think those in power didn`t know the exact details of what was coming and when.. But they knew who, they knew why, and concerning the where... They may not have known the true power of carrier warfare yet, but they knew enough not to have any sitting idle in harbor.
1:14:45
It’s a little known fact that the total number of Commodores the US had is 64!!
Just because I ended doing a research paper on the late Tokugawa trade networks and the American forced opening of Japan: to be very blunt, we were not heroes. Perry had been given a maybe the year before and a deadline to come back on. He came back months before it while Japanese lords were discussing it, the Dutch were advising them to open, and the Japanese were basically leaning towards opening. Perry broke the agreement to let them decide to instead do a show of force. The Japanese NEVER forgot how disrespectful that was to them. Because this wasn't the first time America had tried to do that, not even with the first Perry mission. They hated America for their forced opening. That was a major driver for Japan: revenge for that. It didn't matter that even they acknowledged the net good opening was. The way we went about it from the start soured them on us. They just knew they had to build their defenses first. America too often sanitizes their role and starts this story too late. We need to correct that.
You should react to some of the johnny harris history videos. Would be nice to hear your take on them
I often wonder what would've befallen Australia had Japan not forced the United States' hand.
I'm currently at 1:03:39 when I make this comment but, theoretically do you (and fellow commentors) think Japan would've surrendered due to lack of oil supply or you think they'd find other ways to keep fighting?
They would have found another way to fight if we wouldn't have dropped the nukes and it would have been an invasion of the Japanese mainland I think the military who would have sacrificed every man woman an child. And let's be real with each other here Joseph Stalin was not going to negotiate with Japan he just wasn't he wanted to expand the empire of russia an communism... I really don't know what the emperor of Japan could have done. I dont know how that power dynamic worked out between him and his military but it seems like he was really letting his military walk all over him.
Love this topic, especially when it doesn't shy away from the fact that Pearl Harbor was not the unprovoked and completely isolated attack we make it out to be.
Japan had to do something... They chose poorly.
Yeah and China's strategy of "let them come" actually was them just retreating defeat after defeat XD
To think they would rename it to that. I think the issue was that both armies were absolutely massive, especially the Chinese armies, and they were less coordinated and were probably very hard to maneuver.
@@ethanchen4504 I was mostly referring to the string of American foreign policy decisions that backed Japan into a corner they misguidedly thought they could fight their way out of.
I don't know a ton about the Japanese offensive against the Chinese. Mostly, I roughly understand the scale of atrocity. There's some sort of barrier in the West to learning and fully understanding Eastern conflict. The most shameful part to me, is the fact that what happened in China was known, but didn't factor into Western war policy, at all.
@@Onnabote There's this one site China has preserved where the US bombarded a cultural heritage site and robbed all the valuables there. It's very propped up by the country, but I find it sort of hard to believe. It's one of the main teaching points in their schools unfortunately.
@@ethanchen4504 I actually watched a bunch of videos regarding the lead up to Pearl Harbor today. I didn't know how much the invasion of Manchuria and the knowledge of what was happening did effect American sentiment and peace talks at the time. And that America's willingness to go to war with Japan hinged on whether or not they were willing to abandon their invasion of China. It's not surprising how biased and limited our education of our own history is, considering our own hands weren't entirely clean.
I didn't know about any US incursion into China. Thanks for that info. I'll definitely look into it.
Thanks for the overdose of “what-about-ism” and blame deflecting.
Japanese chose war over peace because they thought it would be more advantageous and profitable to them, just as they chose war and atrocities against China and other neighboring countries.
sometimes it fascinates me how history is long periods of minor or major events that are just part of the status quo, and then once in a while something occurs that changes the course of history and how if it didnt happen the entire world would be different. for example, the birth of Attila set in motion a chain of events that brought down the western roman empire, if attila wasnt born or if he went east to china instead of west, europe wouldnt have had the countless germanic and slavic migrations. entire cultures would be different and even if the WRE still collapses, the nations that replaced it would be ethnically and culturally different from what we know today. or if Napoleon was never selected to lead the army in italy. Or if Caesar lost the battle of Alesia. or if the bronze age collapse didnt happen, would the ancient hittites or egyptians have made an empire that spread across the coast of north africa and the middle east? would Catholicism even have risen if ancient egypt never collapsed. what if colombus had been lost at sea, how many more decades would it have taken for europe to discover the new world and actually be interested in settling it. what if the black plague didnt happen, would europe even have been in a position to finance an expedition west when everyone is starving and fighting over the limited resources in europe?
See this is where a lot of Conspiracy Theories come from. The Conspiracy Theorists actually are very intelligent and kind and cannot conceive of the fact that people can be so utterly completely incompetent and stupid to do crap like this and so use Occam's Razor to reject such a comedy of errors in favor of simple intention. Even now with all we've been through in the past 10 years I personally find it unbelievable that so much stupidity could be squeezed into just a handful of people. My disbelief is only tempered by my contempt for the ruling class and the knowledge of their utter and vile corruption.
I was asked once if I thought ww2 would have happened without Hitler. I am of the opinion it would have because of all the fighting going on in other places. It would have just been focused somewhere else.
Pearl Harbor day is my birthday
One thing I've always wondered that he/ you bring up is...well why *didn't* the Soviets join the Axis really. They didn't really like the Democracies I think and would have greatly bolstered the Axis. Probably would have won unless we get the nuke before everyone? That said Manhattan Project had spies so maybe not. Also Hitler wouldn't have made the biggest mistake of his life by breaking NAP he had with Stalin and focusing on the western front. Maybe southern with Africa.
Don't get me wrong. Obviously appreciate that it happened the way it did but just for the thought experiment
The problem with that is that Hitler despised Russia perhaps even more than he did any other political enemy, belief, or race.
I don't think there was ever really a reality where the Soviets and Nazi Germany weren't gonna come to blows eventually.
Because Hitler wouldn’t allow it. Stalin probably wouldn’t trust it anyway.
Both Hitler and Stalin knew the MR pact was only temporary (Stalin just didn’t know HOW temporary it was) and that an eventual conflict between the two was inevitable. The two ideologically opposite countries couldn’t possibly have stayed at peace forever.
That’s not to mention the main goal of the Nazis was to eliminate the “untermensch” (which Slavs were in the eyes of the Nazis) and gain their living space. The USSR was perhaps the main thing the Nazis wanted. So an actual alliance was impossible.
The Nazis first and most lasting enemy were the Communists, in spite of the Non-Aggression Pact and there was no way that the Soviets would be able to "join the Axis" and remain Communist. In fact, the first "concentration camp", Dachau, was originally built to incarcerate Communists, Socialists, and Trade Unionists--in other words, political enemies.
Interestingly, Himmler, the head of the Nazi SS saw that the war was going against Germany and attempted to engage with US and British leaders to unite with a Himmler led Germany and together fight the Soviets. Fascinating to consider the "what if" of that scenario.
I’m curious if you will do another fat electrician reaction?
Yes I will. After the first one he reached out to me. Was very kind. I'll definitely do more.
I appreciate you responding I look forward to it!!!
Those who have trouble with me imperialism: colonization WAS going to happen the technological and industrial strengths of the developed world WILL win this, so the question is, who would you rather have? Not to say this is an easy question to answer. It's human nature, which isn't necessary moral or good.
Ah, teleology, the art of predicting something had to happen because it did happen and then finding moral and philosophical reasons as to why it had to happen.
Colonization was far from inevitable. The Industrial Revolution could never have happened; heck, China was better situated during the 18th century to dominate the world economy, and not necessarily by colonizing other places. Colonization was the result of centuries of contingent events like the Reconquista and the monopolization of trade routes by the Ottomans and the Italian city-states, which encouraged Portugal and then Spain to go exploring, which prompted other powers to follow their leads, etc... 19th-20th-century imperialism was the product of a race between old and emerging powers to not be outdone.
Also, regarding the implied moral superiority of the Western world, I'm going to let you stew in that for a moment and think about it.
The n word between english japanese is a close one.😂
The timing is wrong on the RussoJapanese war. Kalkon Gol. It started first week in August. The Russian German pact was last week of August And Germany attacked Poland the 1st of september. So for the Russians they where very close to the worst scenario a simultaneous war against Germany and Russia. So they agreed to a pact with the Nazis. Then Germany attacked Poland. But Russia didnt attack until the day after the ceasefire with Japan. And than they attacked Germans in the Soviet zone. So we are not even close to the truth.
It was not a surprise attack, the US military knew it was coming and drop the ball. Ok, this series has given me new insight and I might hold a bad position. :) I wonder how much sexism played in a lot of this.
2022?
See my pinned comment.
"There's a racial component to this." Proceeds to explain Eurocentric views of the Far East. Doesn't bring up how the imperial Japanese view the rest of the world.
It annoys me so bad when people say Hawaii like that... just say it normal dude...
Why was the U.S. helping China?
They were allies back then.
Dewey never should have opened Japan up to the outside world
If it wasn't Dewey it would have been somebody else, possibly worse.
That was going to happen one way or another it was just who and when. America in this case just wanted to be first. There was already limited trade with the Dutch but France, British Empire and even the Germans had designs to opening up Japan because of the trade opportunities it presented America playing catch up wanted to not just get in on the action but beat them to the punch.
Extra history is an entertaining channel but they've become so political with an America bad mentality. Talking about U.S. expansionism without mentioning the similar Japanese mentality along with glossing over the atrocities in Nanking while condemning the U.S. public's reaction as being more about the loss of American life are just a few examples of the narrative building this channel does now. Yes America had issues with racial views around the world, but this video is hell bent on portraying Japan as a country without agency, foisted into war by the west without adding the context of Japan's desire to expand, the atrocities committed by Japan leading to the oil embargo, and the support of the Japanese government to invade and expand by its military.
Just mentioning what happened in Nanking as "reports of mass murder," no there was absolutely mass murder. It was one of the largest reasons world sentiment turned against Japan and it was grossly understated in its scale and scope on a world stage.
Add another point, they gloss over the Japanese Racial Equality clause. It wasn't a statement of Universal Equality or non-existence that would come to mind today but rather a statement that races exist with the European derived ones being supreme and the Japanese being on par with them. A way to justify being an Imperial Power in Asia.
@zuikasa4503 exactly! I would understand if they're trying to make the video informative without being overly cumbersome with information. However there's a particular degree of specificity with the minute details related to the western powers.
Ha yes Japan messed with our boats so we decided to drop the sun two times on Japan. Now that they have learned their lesson they are trying their best to keep us occupied with anime. Oh how Japan has changed. Thanks to America. Don't mess with our s*** and definitely don't mess with our boats... Because remember it's never a war crime the first time...
Japan has still right to defend themselves from American aggression.
December 7th 1941 a day which will live in infamy. The day the empire of Japan decided to take the road leading directly to dragon ball z and big tiddy anime waifus.