I really appreciate the scientific nature of this video, actually comparing different approaches. Generally the metal deposition is going to be proportional to the current flowing through your part. If you want to get good, repeatable results, you *must* regulate current. NOT voltage. I recommend 20 mA per cm^2 of area on your part to be plated. Lower current density will work fine, but will take longer to get the same thickness. Higher current density can ruin your surface finish as you saw with the strong acid. The conductivity of your liquid should be as low as possible to achieve the most uniform plating thickness across your part. You can add salt to the vinegar to increase its conductivity. To determine plating thickness as a general rule, 26.8 amp-hours of charge will deposit 1 gram of metal. At 20 mA per cm^2 this means that ~ 20 microns will be plated in 1 hour. Or the other way, you'll get 1 micron per mA per cm^2 per hour. A few microns is a good thickness for decorative surfaces. 50 microns is good for high durability. I also notice a number of people talking about the order when plating with nickel. Copper won't plate onto all metals very well. If you want to copper plate steel. A thin nickel plate should be applied first.
youre correct, but when it comes to steel, copper wont plate; so yea you do need to spray a nickel coating to conduct the copper to the steel, otherwise the copper wont plate the steel.
@@xtonybaloneyx copper will plate stainless steel using the muriatic acid technique shown in the video. I've never tried other types of steel, but it absolutely will plate onto 304 stainless steel.
Here's a simple and easy copper plating solution. Dissolve copper sulfate in distilled water. The amount is arbitrary. Just enough to make the solution dark blue. Add a few ml's of muriatic acid. Measure the ph then add enough sulfuric acid to bring ph to 1. You now have the perfect copper plating solution. It's durable and you may plate it as thick as you'd like. Just remember, 100 milliamps per square inch of surface to be plated.
@@raytry69 Too high milliamps will produce a rough texture. Normally people are looking for smooth and even surface. 100 milliamps per square inch gives you that smooth surface. If the milliamps are way too high, the plating won't stick at all and you'll be left with a pile of copper powder that falls off the plating surface. If you stick to the 100 milliamp rule you'll have a nice thick, durable, and smooth plate in about 8 hours.
I've done quite a bit of plating of my wood turnings. In the course of learning how to do so, one thing shows up over and over again - contamination of the electroplating bath, which results in poor quality plating. For this reason, I have to seal all my wood projects with lacquer, then coat them with conductive graphite (from a mix with satin Mogepodge). Even then, the baths get contaminated over time. Part of the contamination of my baths come from the small eyelets I use to suspend the items in the bath. The eyelets are metal/iron. As I was told, merely dropping iron in the bath, without connecting to a power supply, will result in ion exchanges to produce a THIN copper surface. However, this, also, means the bath is being contaminated with iron, which will, at some point of saturation, ruin the bath. I end up with a lot of small copper pieces, from the anode dissolving. As an experiment, I used a small, hard plastic water bottle to store the pieces. I drilled about a gazillion (give or take five) holes in the bottle so solution could flow into and out of the bottle easily. This allowed me to drop a copper anode into the contained pile of copper, to use it all as a anode. It worked. Another problem I came across was all the debris, from the anode, building up on the bottom. On a whim, I bought some small polypropylene bags and put the anode jar in it. This worked to catch all but a tiny bit of the debris.
The polishing part made your video unique to me to Me. Thank you for posting I’m trying electroplating tomorrow finally I have the time to do it at home.
You would want to use washing soda sodium carbonate but I guess some people have a hard time finding it just take some baking soda sodium hi.carbonate put it on a cookie sheet and bake for 30 mins or so at 350f you can look up time and temp I'm not sure I remember perfectly how to convert sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate thanks for the video I really like them
Excellent video! Thank you for taking the time to do such a thorough experiment and post the results here. I greatly appreciate your effort! That said, I think adding a bit of salt to the vinegar solution would have provided much better results by increasing the conductivity.
Excellent presentation. Thank you for showing this to us. I plan on using these concepts for my small-scale restoration projects. The heavier build-up of copper using the muriatic acid solution will assist in bringing worn parts back to full size, when needed. Some of the parts I restore, are 'unobtainium' pieces (i.e. not available) or very expensive to buy, Muriatic acid is commonly used in the USA (perhaps, elsewhere?) as an additive to maintain the pH balance in swimming pools and is sold by the gallon (appx 4 liters to the gallon)...for less than $10/gal.
@@aaamediamail5552 yeah, but he only used soda, and didn't use any of those a**hole. So many toxic people in this comment section. Hate when someone thinks they are more clever than others...
After watching dozens of videos on YT about copper plating and then trying many methods myself, I came to the conclusion that copper plating is a decoration at most. If you want something durable then go with nickel
To those knowledgeable in such things, a question, if you will: Is there a simple way of determining if or when you need to add acid to your distilled water, copper sulfate and sulfuric acid bath?
The vinegar version didn't seem to work that well, but with a stronger concentration and some salt, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad. I'd be more comfortable with vinegar, and it's easy to get. It's also clear, so that you can watch the process. I wonder if it would be a good enough solution for etching circuit boards if you're not in a hurry. I can't seem to find any videos of this exact approach. I'd also like to know the chemical composition of the (used) electrolytes, so that it can be disposed of in a safe manner. It's been made clear by many, that the dissolved copper left in it is toxic. If I'm going to store and handle toxic stuff, I want to know exactly what it contains.
Try cleaning vinegar. Cooking vinegar is about 3% acetic acid, cleaning is usually more than double. copper sulfate however is a lot more effective since the copper ions are incorporated into the solution chemically.
You'll get much better results if you first plate the steel with nickel, then proceed to plate with copper...just an observation due to my extensive experience in DIY copper plating.
Regarding the Muriatic Acid. Always add acid to water, not the other way around. Also 1 part Muriatic to 5 parts water makes a nice solution. 1:1 is too strong.
do you know what the chemical composition is of the solution after plating? just wondering about toxicity levels - I'm trying to compare whether id be best copper plating or zinc plating for durability and wear on some machine parts.. and obviously to prevent rust occurring again great vid by the way... subbed!
yeah idk how he got those to work,i tried copper plating ss and ms directly after scrubbing them with steel(ss) wool and degreasing with methanol ,the copper on the steel looked like the mat dull color and rubbed off easily and the copper on the ss was barely visible or working(took long) although more shiny still rubbed off too
I tried the vinegar. It does work but it’s not durable the coating will wipe off easily I plan to try the acid maybe it will help bind to the still parts
the one thing Christopher kept on saying was that he wanted to keep it as simple as possible so that anyone could repeat this at home, and what happens, the smart arses start chittering away missing the whole point,again
hello i want to put copper on a golf club. this is either in stainless steal or carbon metal. but there are sometimes coating of nickel or chrome. do you have some suggestions?
Hi Christoph, I was wondering if you could possibly help me with a few questions. How come the copper adheres to the steel? I thought a nickle base coat was needed to help this? My second question is is this possible with a phone charger as the power source. Many thanks katie
Hi I have subbed and liked because I saw you can use chemical easily bought from hardware store. I used electronics contact cleaner to clean my piece. Not the best! I used prepwash to wipe on and off.it worked great on the feeler gauge I was copper plating. But doing my kitchen spoon ( stainless steel) it worked but blotchy on the handle! If I use Acetone? Will it work with stainless steel? Can I even electroplate stainless steel? I can't get muriatic acid but can I use hydrochloric acid instead? Any reply appreciated. Cheers from Australia 🙂👍👍👍
Thank you for this comparison. I'm looking for a good, safe solution for giving pewter a heavy copper-plate. Probably some variation on the muriatic acid option.
I've heard electrolytic plating can leave uneven deposits of the nickel around areas such as edges and corners. Is this just highly exaggerated marketing bull by the people who run electroless plating services or would this affects tolerances in any meaningful way if the plated parts will be part of a mechanism?
Servus, Cooles Video, ich habe mich für die Backpulver Variante entschieden, nur ist es so das die kupferbeschichtung beim polieren komplett weggeht? Was kann ich tun damit es fest auf dem Werkstück drauf bleibt ?
Servus, wenn die Beschichtung nicht gut genug haftet dann kann das an der Oberflächengüte oder Sauberkeit liegen. Wenn die Schicht zu dünn ist kannst du versuchen die Beschichtungsdauer oder/und den Strom zu erhöhen (~20mA/cm² Bauteiloberfläche). Je nach Werkstoff musst du das Bauteil zuerst vernickeln, wenn du die Oberfläche mechanisch beanspruchst.
@@John-gm8ty And still nobody answered :D Copper sulfate plating is much more simple than screwing around with anything mentioned in the vid. Though you'll get what you've paid for. Plating with sulfate salts is easy, and I purposely didn't use 'electroplating'. You don't have to use electricity to plate a carbon steel piece with copper sulfate. You just put the salt in the water, mix it up to dissolve the salt, and submerge the steel piece into the solution. If the undissolved salt covers the steel completely, it will plate the piece with a thin copper layer. I found that this copper layer won't adhere that strong to the steel like the acid method would, but it's enough for most purposes. Another method: use an oversaturated copper sulfate solution, soak a rag with the solution and smear the steel piece with it. If the steel is free of grease, oil and scrap, the copper layer will instantly be seen. Repeat if you're not satisfied with the results, and the job 's done. A bit of polishing and a layer of clear coat is advised.
Très bon. J'expérimente utiliser cette technique pour épaissir le cuivre sur mes circuits PCB pour la conduction de fort ampérage. Vielen dank nochmal.
Any of these methods won’t work on larger pieces of bare steel they will wiper right off the acid copper on the last one will only work if it is nickel plated first so im sure the part was nickel that he used
I used the muriatic acid for the copper plating... The plate is really thin... I think there wasn't enough copper ion in the solution... Is it possible? The diluition is 1 part of muriatic acid and 5 parts of distilled water... Thank you for your video!
a cool way to do pcbs is to print with carbon ink then use this to electroplate it to reduce the resistance a huge amount. also I saw u can use a laser in copper sulphate and it electroplates glass. The thing im wondering is the there a way to conductiveness without metal? cause think, your body doesnt use metal and it conducts electricity (besides the water conduction, which is only really poor), but im stumped there still.
I suspect you mistakenly used baking powder instead of baking soda, hence the cloudiness. They are quite different from one another. Baking soda is pure whereas baking powder contains other chemicals also.
Hello Christoph, I have tried with baking soda or vinegar I always have the same result, a dark depot forms on the cathode and there is no way to polish it afterwards. The liquid turns to blue but no way to have some copper :(
You dont have put two copper anodes in the solution to "disolve copper into sulution" before putting the piece to be plated in. You can just put the piece to be plated in with the copper anode at the same time. You will get the same results. Also, 4 parts water to 1 part muriatic acid. Not 100% muriatic acid.
@@ARCSTREAMS and @Brian Clark You know, there's no such thing as 100% muriatic acid, since muriatic acid is Hydrogen Chloride dissolved in pure (distilled) water, you can't make it more than 38%. If you try to put in more HCl gas in a 38% hydrochloric acid, no matter what temperature or pressure used, the excess HCl gas will bubble out from the liquid. You can call the undiluted (38%) hydrochloric acid as 100% muriatic acid, but technically you would be wrong.
im just saying he did not put just muriatic acid ,he had water in there as well,,but about what you said,what if we evaporate the water ,wont the acid % start increasing then or does it evaporate and remain 38% in the remaining fluid? im sure there must be a chemical way to make it 100% or close ,are there no other 100% acids,sulfuric?
@@ARCSTREAMS There's no way at all to make 100% muriatic acid, it doesn't matter what method you try. However, there is a crystalline form of Hydrogen Chloride + water, which contains much higher (around 68%) percentage of HCl between water molecules, but it cannot be used as a solvent - since it's solid. When you try to dissolve it in a small amount of water, it dissociates and the forming HCl gas escapes from the solution vigorously. Sulfuric acid can be concentrated to 98% by some methods, and there are disulfuric acid or fuming sulfuric acid, but that name doesn't mean one particular acid, but several acids. They contain 98% H2SO4, and a percentage of SO3 (sulfur trioxide). 98% sulfuric acid cannot dissolve more sulfur trioxide molecules, because its hygroscopic, it sucks out water from everything, even itself. So it remains 98%, but sulfur trioxide molecules are 'floating' in the acid. They associate and dissociate at the same time (dissolving in the remaining water molecules, forming H2SO4, and suddenly breaking away from the water), so it's fuming. The white fume it releases contain the water-free SO3 molecules and water from the air. So technically, 100% mineral acids don't exist. There are ways to simulate the 100%, but it's hard to maintain and they are very dangerous, considered as impossible even to keep them in a bottle.
I took Herr Wagner at 8 minutes in. Then I disengaged my ear-pods and turned up the volume for my wife to wrestle out of her sleep. Oh boy... I am sooo in the doghouse...🙂
im surprised the BS did so well or why you would even use it to begin with because it is a base and not an acid solution so how is this working? the muratic one drew more current ,,so i was thinking of using salt,hydrogen peroxide and vinegar and maybe putting in some backing soda(bad idea?) and using 12vdc 4mAh adaptor,,you said it is better to go slow and less power?
The challenge with big parts is to get an even coating. The formula works but the work piece needs to be constantly rotaded or the solution needs to be constantly stired. Be careful with the hydrogen fumes forming during the process.
Hello sir, thanks for the time you have taken to post this, but I would like to shed some light on the basic science of your process and why it may not work for restoration purposes(and quite frankly I am amazed that no one has pointed this before), Copper plating directly to steel using simple electroplating solutions like the ones you have shown will not produce acceptable results because: Copper is more noble than iron, if you place a steel/iron piece in a solution containing copper ions, the iron piece will be immediately coated with a thin(often loose) coating that will not stick if further plated, that is why professional electroplaters use either a Copper yanide(very dangerous) solutions to first coat steel with a adherent coat of copper then the piece is plated with regular bright copper plating solution based on copper sulfate, another way is to first plate iron with a flash coat of Nickel then with regular bright Copper/Nickel plating process, this is then finished with a Chromium or a Chromium plating alternative like Cobalt
You may want to try the same solutions(baking soda, Vinegar, muriatic acid) but with Nickel metal anodes, then after the steel rings may have been plated with a flash nickel coat you can use the same solutions you did before and you will see much better results.
That's why you use alkaline plating solutions for plating copper onto steel. They don't have to contain cyanide though. Cyanide-free solutions usually contain copper pyrophosphate
Great video, thanks! Does anyone know how to protect the copper from oxidising? I want to plate bicycle parts but I am afraid that they will turn green soon...
You will have to hit it with a clear coat of varnish to keep it from oxidizing. Keep in mind the areas where bolts go through will likely nick the varnish and allow water to hit the copper and you may get green runs around your connections.
Cornflakes Yognaut I would spray a clear coat on the parts to protect them and keep their color. If you don’t want the parts gloss, you could use satin or matte clear. Because the copper coating is thin, Polishing the parts will eventually rub the coating off.
@@CornflakesYognaut I'm doing the same soon! Although I'm going to use the brushed on copper sulfate method because my parts are too large to put in a bath for electroplating
@@nsquezada27 wait what? You can brush copper on? I'll google that, it could fix my problems too. I want to plate my whole wheels but I can't find a large enough container.
You can, for a little while. 9 volt batteries don't have much capacity, I imagine it would go flat pretty quickly. I don't believe the higher voltage is a benefit, current (amps) is more important than voltage.
It would be helpful if people explained why, when saying this. Knowing nothing of such things, I always thought it was because you'd be splashing acid up, rather than water. Of course, later I learned the real danger came from the violent chemical reaction.
@@kellyvcraig with watered down HCL like you get in the store as a consumer grade, you will not get heat buildup, unlike reagent or anhydrous grade HCL
@@preciousplasticph, I don't know one from the other. That it's just good to develop safe habits aside, I use the sulfuric acid I can get in auto parts stores. Do you know which category it falls in? I bought a bottle of the stuff they sell in hardware stores, for drain cleaning, which I suspect to be more dilute. Still, it works for plating.
@@kellyvcraig auto parts store battery acid is already watered down. This reaction, is much the same as adding salt to ice water. No chemical reaction actually happens but in the case of acids heat is generated vs cold. Or your cold pack that uses water and urea. Now once the reaction has happened i.e. at the chemical factory when they initially diluted the acid, then you will not generally see further reaction in the consumer grade acids. Cody's Lab did a long video on this years ago ua-cam.com/video/RS_TrEbaizg/v-deo.html
Get a 5 gallon bucket and mix 5parts muriatic acid to 1 part distilled water. Hook a piece of copper water pipe to 1 wire and your caliper to the other. Constantly stir the solution to prevent uneven plating, preferably using a magnetic stirring plate and a stir bar so you don't inhale the fumes.
You should not have added the water to the acid. That is extremely dangerous. Always add the acid to the water. Also please wear personal protective equipment (PPE); particularly acid proof gloves and safety glasses. Thanks for the video but look after yourself. Cheers.
I think the idea here is that when you introduce a strong acid solution into the water, the amount of acid versus water starts at zero (the water without acid) and gradually increases as you continue to pour in the acid. I have had acid solutions generate intense heat if I poured a bit of water into the volume of strong acid, in some cases violently releasing bubbles of water vapor (possibly hydrogen also) and splashing acid everywhere. Wearing simple nitrile gloves and basic eye protection helped me avoid injury if I made this mistake.
I totally agree about adding acid to water. Reversing the process with water added to concentrated acids can lead to a violent chemical reaction and personal injury. It's interesting that Mr Wagner told users to don rubber gloves and safety glasses but didn't follow his own stipulations.
I am really sorry . You thought we were stupid. I tested the baking soda solution. As I guessed, it doesn't work. For example, iron metal turns completely black and no copper sits on iron. I also tried vinegar. It didn't work either. I also saw and tested other people's videos. They don't work either. In addition, both vinegar and baking soda should be blue, but not blue in your video. What's the matter
Have you thought about that if none of the methods worked for you from multiple videos then you are doing something wrong? And this guy maybe doesn't think that his audience is stupid? lol
It sound like you got your electrodes mixed up and you ended up oxidizing your steel part. The solutions turn very blue/turquoise/green if the concentration is high enough, and faint blue if concentration is low. This also works better on stainless steel since it has nickel in it, and doesn't work on regular iron if there is enough contamination of the electrolyte, using distilled water is critical, and good quality reagents too.
you sound like a evil scientist. Now, make a rocket from a serial box and a hotwheel, then make a world killing bomb from a sock and a tube of ky jelly
The KY Jwlly is part of the reward,not the bomb itself! And anyway Herr DrEvil von Badshit is busy with his plateing therapy as per court order. He does bomb DiY in November
I really appreciate the scientific nature of this video, actually comparing different approaches. Generally the metal deposition is going to be proportional to the current flowing through your part. If you want to get good, repeatable results, you *must* regulate current. NOT voltage. I recommend 20 mA per cm^2 of area on your part to be plated. Lower current density will work fine, but will take longer to get the same thickness. Higher current density can ruin your surface finish as you saw with the strong acid. The conductivity of your liquid should be as low as possible to achieve the most uniform plating thickness across your part. You can add salt to the vinegar to increase its conductivity. To determine plating thickness as a general rule, 26.8 amp-hours of charge will deposit 1 gram of metal. At 20 mA per cm^2 this means that ~ 20 microns will be plated in 1 hour. Or the other way, you'll get 1 micron per mA per cm^2 per hour. A few microns is a good thickness for decorative surfaces. 50 microns is good for high durability. I also notice a number of people talking about the order when plating with nickel. Copper won't plate onto all metals very well. If you want to copper plate steel. A thin nickel plate should be applied first.
You got that backwards. If you want to plate with nickle you must plate with copper first. Copper plates to most items easily while nickle is finicky.
youre correct, but when it comes to steel, copper wont plate; so yea you do need to spray a nickel coating to conduct the copper to the steel, otherwise the copper wont plate the steel.
i appreciate your comment, does this recommendation apply to a particular approach you use?
@@xtonybaloneyx copper will plate stainless steel using the muriatic acid technique shown in the video. I've never tried other types of steel, but it absolutely will plate onto 304 stainless steel.
What's the ideal voltage to current ratio, or should I say the ideal resistance of the solution?
Here's a simple and easy copper plating solution. Dissolve copper sulfate in distilled water. The amount is arbitrary. Just enough to make the solution dark blue. Add a few ml's of muriatic acid. Measure the ph then add enough sulfuric acid to bring ph to 1. You now have the perfect copper plating solution. It's durable and you may plate it as thick as you'd like. Just remember, 100 milliamps per square inch of surface to be plated.
Good to know, thanks!
Why the milliamps important? Is there too high mA? Is there any disadvantages of it?
@ElGatoLoco698 someone asked you a question.
@@raytry69 Too high milliamps will produce a rough texture. Normally people are looking for smooth and even surface. 100 milliamps per square inch gives you that smooth surface. If the milliamps are way too high, the plating won't stick at all and you'll be left with a pile of copper powder that falls off the plating surface. If you stick to the 100 milliamp rule you'll have a nice thick, durable, and smooth plate in about 8 hours.
Can any copper salt (acetate, carbonate, hydroxide) be used or does it have to be sulfate?
I've done quite a bit of plating of my wood turnings. In the course of learning how to do so, one thing shows up over and over again - contamination of the electroplating bath, which results in poor quality plating.
For this reason, I have to seal all my wood projects with lacquer, then coat them with conductive graphite (from a mix with satin Mogepodge). Even then, the baths get contaminated over time.
Part of the contamination of my baths come from the small eyelets I use to suspend the items in the bath. The eyelets are metal/iron. As I was told, merely dropping iron in the bath, without connecting to a power supply, will result in ion exchanges to produce a THIN copper surface. However, this, also, means the bath is being contaminated with iron, which will, at some point of saturation, ruin the bath.
I end up with a lot of small copper pieces, from the anode dissolving. As an experiment, I used a small, hard plastic water bottle to store the pieces. I drilled about a gazillion (give or take five) holes in the bottle so solution could flow into and out of the bottle easily. This allowed me to drop a copper anode into the contained pile of copper, to use it all as a anode. It worked.
Another problem I came across was all the debris, from the anode, building up on the bottom. On a whim, I bought some small polypropylene bags and put the anode jar in it. This worked to catch all but a tiny bit of the debris.
Thank you!! BTW, water first, then carefully add acid, never the other way around please!!!
That's going on my tomb stone
The polishing part made your video unique to me to
Me. Thank you for posting I’m trying electroplating tomorrow finally I have the time to do it at home.
i use 50% peroxide to 50% white vinegar. it turns bright blue and works well
Thanks for nice experiment Mohammad Hussein from Iran 🇮🇷
You would want to use washing soda sodium carbonate but I guess some people have a hard time finding it just take some baking soda sodium hi.carbonate put it on a cookie sheet and bake for 30 mins or so at 350f you can look up time and temp I'm not sure I remember perfectly how to convert sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate thanks for the video I really like them
Christoph, compliments to you for the production & info comparison content on this vid. Excellent.
Excellent video! Thank you for taking the time to do such a thorough experiment and post the results here. I greatly appreciate your effort!
That said, I think adding a bit of salt to the vinegar solution would have provided much better results by increasing the conductivity.
Excellent presentation. Thank you for showing this to us. I plan on using these concepts for my small-scale restoration projects. The heavier build-up of copper using the muriatic acid solution will assist in bringing worn parts back to full size, when needed. Some of the parts I restore, are 'unobtainium' pieces (i.e. not available) or very expensive to buy, Muriatic acid is commonly used in the USA (perhaps, elsewhere?) as an additive to maintain the pH balance in swimming pools and is sold by the gallon (appx 4 liters to the gallon)...for less than $10/gal.
Thanks for the good video. I used washing soda, and that works really well.
I like this method a lot, because it doesen't use dangerous chemicals.
WRONG Hydrochloric acid is dangerous as is vinegar - 5% acetic acid if you get it on your skin [HCl] and especially both in your eyes.
@@aaamediamail5552 yeah, but he only used soda, and didn't use any of those a**hole. So many toxic people in this comment section. Hate when someone thinks they are more clever than others...
No dangerous chemicals??? Wtf? learn chemistry before you copy things like this the solution is very dangerous! Bye a book moron!
Christoph, thank you for your good science. I learned a lot!
After watching dozens of videos on YT about copper plating and then trying many methods myself, I came to the conclusion that copper plating is a decoration at most. If you want something durable then go with nickel
To those knowledgeable in such things, a question, if you will: Is there a simple way of determining if or when you need to add acid to your distilled water, copper sulfate and sulfuric acid bath?
The vinegar version didn't seem to work that well, but with a stronger concentration and some salt, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad. I'd be more comfortable with vinegar, and it's easy to get. It's also clear, so that you can watch the process. I wonder if it would be a good enough solution for etching circuit boards if you're not in a hurry. I can't seem to find any videos of this exact approach.
I'd also like to know the chemical composition of the (used) electrolytes, so that it can be disposed of in a safe manner. It's been made clear by many, that the dissolved copper left in it is toxic. If I'm going to store and handle toxic stuff, I want to know exactly what it contains.
Try cleaning vinegar. Cooking vinegar is about 3% acetic acid, cleaning is usually more than double.
copper sulfate however is a lot more effective since the copper ions are incorporated into the solution chemically.
We usually use vinegar and salt to make a pickle solution to clean and strip copper.
Thank you
Hard presentation took a lot of time.
👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for sharing.
I use sulfuric acid and copper sulfate in my solution. Reaction seems to be closer to muriadic acid but better imo.
You'll get much better results if you first plate the steel with nickel, then proceed to plate with copper...just an observation due to my extensive experience in DIY copper plating.
Regarding the Muriatic Acid. Always add acid to water, not the other way around. Also 1 part Muriatic to 5 parts water makes a nice solution. 1:1 is too strong.
Agitation of the part is required to stop bubbles clinging to the surface
Ur dedication for video is so amazing man keep it up
tnx 4 sharing mate. table salt would have been also interesting to use
If you like inhaling chlorine gas go right ahead! I don't mind!
Adding Salt will increase the conductivity allowing more amps to be drawn
With the vinegar solution, you need to add salt to solution to increase solutions conductivity. You will see a significant increase in results
What kind of salt? Sea salt?
@@americanstriper8666 any type of salt will do, salinity increases conductivity.
@@americanstriper8666 it's all sea salt, except in some very rare instances even if it came from under ground or from a mountain
do you know what the chemical composition is of the solution after plating? just wondering about toxicity levels - I'm trying to compare whether id be best copper plating or zinc plating for durability and wear on some machine parts.. and obviously to prevent rust occurring again
great vid by the way... subbed!
WONDERFUL informative video
Great video! Thanks 👍😃
Thank you for making this video. Was VERY educational and helpful.
i thought you need to plate steel with zinc or nickel before plating it with copper for it to adhere well
yeah idk how he got those to work,i tried copper plating ss and ms directly after scrubbing them with steel(ss) wool and degreasing with methanol ,the copper on the steel looked like the mat dull color and rubbed off easily and the copper on the ss was barely visible or working(took long) although more shiny still rubbed off too
What metal are the rings made out of ?
Very good tutorial
I tried the vinegar. It does work but it’s not durable the coating will wipe off easily I plan to try the acid maybe it will help bind to the still parts
A pinch of table salt would increase the current in the vinegar solution
the one thing Christopher kept on saying was that he wanted to keep it as simple as possible so that anyone could repeat this at home, and what happens, the smart arses start chittering away missing the whole point,again
Adding salt to the vinegar help a lot to increase the amperage
Only add a little bit though.
hello i want to put copper on a golf club. this is either in stainless steal or carbon metal. but there are sometimes coating of nickel or chrome. do you have some suggestions?
is it possible to plate stain glass frame in plomber or sink
Oh very interesting and helpful, thank you.
what if i leave the peace i want to plate for a half or maybe an hour ? wont it be a thicher plating applied or ??
At a point it seams to be diminishing returns, but i did not do propper tests on that.
Hi Christoph, I was wondering if you could possibly help me with a few questions. How come the copper adheres to the steel? I thought a nickle base coat was needed to help this? My second question is is this possible with a phone charger as the power source. Many thanks katie
you should put a bit of salt in the vinegar to make the solution more conductive
Hi I have subbed and liked because I saw you can use chemical easily bought from hardware store. I used electronics contact cleaner to clean my piece. Not the best! I used prepwash to wipe on and off.it worked great on the feeler gauge I was copper plating. But doing my kitchen spoon ( stainless steel) it worked but blotchy on the handle! If I use Acetone? Will it work with stainless steel? Can I even electroplate stainless steel? I can't get muriatic acid but can I use hydrochloric acid instead? Any reply appreciated. Cheers from Australia 🙂👍👍👍
Thank you for this comparison. I'm looking for a good, safe solution for giving pewter a heavy copper-plate. Probably some variation on the muriatic acid option.
I've heard electrolytic plating can leave uneven deposits of the nickel around areas such as edges and corners. Is this just highly exaggerated marketing bull by the people who run electroless plating services or would this affects tolerances in any meaningful way if the plated parts will be part of a mechanism?
Nice experiment!!!
Servus,
Cooles Video, ich habe mich für die Backpulver Variante entschieden, nur ist es so das die kupferbeschichtung beim polieren komplett weggeht?
Was kann ich tun damit es fest auf dem Werkstück drauf bleibt ?
Servus, wenn die Beschichtung nicht gut genug haftet dann kann das an der Oberflächengüte oder Sauberkeit liegen. Wenn die Schicht zu dünn ist kannst du versuchen die Beschichtungsdauer oder/und den Strom zu erhöhen (~20mA/cm² Bauteiloberfläche). Je nach Werkstoff musst du das Bauteil zuerst vernickeln, wenn du die Oberfläche mechanisch beanspruchst.
Would a 9 volt do the job?
Excellent thank you!
Would using a copper sulfate (such as Root Kill) be better or worse than the muriatic acid? Experience? Opinions? Thanks :)
lol I literally just asked the same question.
@@John-gm8ty
And still nobody answered :D
Copper sulfate plating is much more simple than screwing around with anything mentioned in the vid. Though you'll get what you've paid for. Plating with sulfate salts is easy, and I purposely didn't use 'electroplating'. You don't have to use electricity to plate a carbon steel piece with copper sulfate. You just put the salt in the water, mix it up to dissolve the salt, and submerge the steel piece into the solution. If the undissolved salt covers the steel completely, it will plate the piece with a thin copper layer. I found that this copper layer won't adhere that strong to the steel like the acid method would, but it's enough for most purposes.
Another method: use an oversaturated copper sulfate solution, soak a rag with the solution and smear the steel piece with it. If the steel is free of grease, oil and scrap, the copper layer will instantly be seen. Repeat if you're not satisfied with the results, and the job 's done. A bit of polishing and a layer of clear coat is advised.
Très bon. J'expérimente utiliser cette technique pour épaissir le cuivre sur mes circuits PCB pour la conduction de fort ampérage. Vielen dank nochmal.
Add a pinch of salt to the vinegar. Preferrably non-iodized salt.
Any of these methods won’t work on larger pieces of bare steel they will wiper right off the acid copper on the last one will only work if it is nickel plated first so im sure the part was nickel that he used
Muriatic acid is HCl and that will react with item being plated even though it is being plated. This is a very harsh method
I used the muriatic acid for the copper plating... The plate is really thin... I think there wasn't enough copper ion in the solution... Is it possible? The diluition is 1 part of muriatic acid and 5 parts of distilled water... Thank you for your video!
Could be the case. But have a look at the comment gizmoguyar wrote. He did a really nice job explaining how to calculate the thickness.
a cool way to do pcbs is to print with carbon ink then use this to electroplate it to reduce the resistance a huge amount. also I saw u can use a laser in copper sulphate and it electroplates glass. The thing im wondering is the there a way to conductiveness without metal? cause think, your body doesnt use metal and it conducts electricity (besides the water conduction, which is only really poor), but im stumped there still.
I suspect you mistakenly used baking powder instead of baking soda, hence the cloudiness. They are quite different from one another. Baking soda is pure whereas baking powder contains other chemicals also.
Thank you for the video, it was well done
Hello Christoph, I have tried with baking soda or vinegar I always have the same result, a dark depot forms on the cathode and there is no way to polish it afterwards. The liquid turns to blue but no way to have some copper :(
Very interesting. I gotta try this.
You dont have put two copper anodes in the solution to "disolve copper into sulution" before putting the piece to be plated in. You can just put the piece to be plated in with the copper anode at the same time. You will get the same results. Also, 4 parts water to 1 part muriatic acid. Not 100% muriatic acid.
Thanks for the hints. I'll try them in my next attempt
who said 100%? he put it with water although idk what ratio
@@ARCSTREAMS
and
@Brian Clark
You know, there's no such thing as 100% muriatic acid, since muriatic acid is Hydrogen Chloride dissolved in pure (distilled) water, you can't make it more than 38%. If you try to put in more HCl gas in a 38% hydrochloric acid, no matter what temperature or pressure used, the excess HCl gas will bubble out from the liquid. You can call the undiluted (38%) hydrochloric acid as 100% muriatic acid, but technically you would be wrong.
im just saying he did not put just muriatic acid ,he had water in there as well,,but about what you said,what if we evaporate the water ,wont the acid % start increasing then or does it evaporate and remain 38% in the remaining fluid? im sure there must be a chemical way to make it 100% or close ,are there no other 100% acids,sulfuric?
@@ARCSTREAMS
There's no way at all to make 100% muriatic acid, it doesn't matter what method you try. However, there is a crystalline form of Hydrogen Chloride + water, which contains much higher (around 68%) percentage of HCl between water molecules, but it cannot be used as a solvent - since it's solid. When you try to dissolve it in a small amount of water, it dissociates and the forming HCl gas escapes from the solution vigorously.
Sulfuric acid can be concentrated to 98% by some methods, and there are disulfuric acid or fuming sulfuric acid, but that name doesn't mean one particular acid, but several acids. They contain 98% H2SO4, and a percentage of SO3 (sulfur trioxide). 98% sulfuric acid cannot dissolve more sulfur trioxide molecules, because its hygroscopic, it sucks out water from everything, even itself. So it remains 98%, but sulfur trioxide molecules are 'floating' in the acid. They associate and dissociate at the same time (dissolving in the remaining water molecules, forming H2SO4, and suddenly breaking away from the water), so it's fuming. The white fume it releases contain the water-free SO3 molecules and water from the air.
So technically, 100% mineral acids don't exist. There are ways to simulate the 100%, but it's hard to maintain and they are very dangerous, considered as impossible even to keep them in a bottle.
Baking soda and powder are not the same. If explaining stuff, you should not confuse them.
thank you for your tuttorıal vıdeo.
In baking soda method: what were the proportions of salt- baking soda- water?
I took Herr Wagner at 8 minutes in. Then I disengaged my ear-pods and turned up the volume for my wife to wrestle out of her sleep.
Oh boy... I am sooo in the doghouse...🙂
you should give the electrolyte longer time to form ,30 min is not good enough,give it at least 2hours before you start plating parts
im surprised the BS did so well or why you would even use it to begin with because it is a base and not an acid solution so how is this working? the muratic one drew more current ,,so i was thinking of using salt,hydrogen peroxide and vinegar and maybe putting in some backing soda(bad idea?) and using 12vdc 4mAh adaptor,,you said it is better to go slow and less power?
Fantastic
hello sir can i use this formula for big material
The challenge with big parts is to get an even coating. The formula works but the work piece needs to be constantly rotaded or the solution needs to be constantly stired. Be careful with the hydrogen fumes forming during the process.
Why not use a copper salt such as copper sulphate?
Because I had none on hand ;)
Hello sir, thanks for the time you have taken to post this, but I would like to shed some light on the basic science of your process and why it may not work for restoration purposes(and quite frankly I am amazed that no one has pointed this before), Copper plating directly to steel using simple electroplating solutions like the ones you have shown will not produce acceptable results because: Copper is more noble than iron, if you place a steel/iron piece in a solution containing copper ions, the iron piece will be immediately coated with a thin(often loose) coating that will not stick if further plated, that is why professional electroplaters use either a Copper yanide(very dangerous) solutions to first coat steel with a adherent coat of copper then the piece is plated with regular bright copper plating solution based on copper sulfate, another way is to first plate iron with a flash coat of Nickel then with regular bright Copper/Nickel plating process, this is then finished with a Chromium or a Chromium plating alternative like Cobalt
You may want to try the same solutions(baking soda, Vinegar, muriatic acid) but with Nickel metal anodes, then after the steel rings may have been plated with a flash nickel coat you can use the same solutions you did before and you will see much better results.
That's why you use alkaline plating solutions for plating copper onto steel. They don't have to contain cyanide though. Cyanide-free solutions usually contain copper pyrophosphate
anyone know if the electroplated end product is food safe?
Pour acid into water, not water into acid. Always. Then you don't make a bad mistake one day.
Great video, thanks! Does anyone know how to protect the copper from oxidising? I want to plate bicycle parts but I am afraid that they will turn green soon...
You will have to hit it with a clear coat of varnish to keep it from oxidizing. Keep in mind the areas where bolts go through will likely nick the varnish and allow water to hit the copper and you may get green runs around your connections.
You could tin the spots where your bolts will go through by adding a layer of solder around them with a heat gun.
nice knipex..... i like mine alot
Very good !
Thanks :-) Very useful. Din you try also with vinegar ?
Thank you for teaching me this:) I really want to cooper plate motorcycle parts.
Will this work with brass also??
juSTIn Turner. I would think so. Brass has copper in it also
I am copper plating bicycle parts. How will you protect the copper from oxidising and turning green? I am worried that it will turn green very soon...
Cornflakes Yognaut I would spray a clear coat on the parts to protect them and keep their color. If you don’t want the parts gloss, you could use satin or matte clear. Because the copper coating is thin, Polishing the parts will eventually rub the coating off.
@@CornflakesYognaut I'm doing the same soon! Although I'm going to use the brushed on copper sulfate method because my parts are too large to put in a bath for electroplating
@@nsquezada27 wait what? You can brush copper on? I'll google that, it could fix my problems too. I want to plate my whole wheels but I can't find a large enough container.
A car battery charger that has a 6 volt and 12 volt setting will work for a power supply.
which concentration of muriatic acid?
I used the common cleaning stuff. It's around 30% I think.
@@ChristophWagnerChrisDesign 20%
Can I use 9v battery
You can, for a little while. 9 volt batteries don't have much capacity, I imagine it would go flat pretty quickly.
I don't believe the higher voltage is a benefit, current (amps) is more important than voltage.
Thank you for the video
Or use filtered seawater
Add a pinch of salt to bath to increase conductivity
never water in acid. very dangerous
Herzliche Grüsse
Peter
It would be helpful if people explained why, when saying this.
Knowing nothing of such things, I always thought it was because you'd be splashing acid up, rather than water. Of course, later I learned the real danger came from the violent chemical reaction.
@@kellyvcraig with watered down HCL like you get in the store as a consumer grade, you will not get heat buildup, unlike reagent or anhydrous grade HCL
@@preciousplasticph, I don't know one from the other. That it's just good to develop safe habits aside, I use the sulfuric acid I can get in auto parts stores. Do you know which category it falls in?
I bought a bottle of the stuff they sell in hardware stores, for drain cleaning, which I suspect to be more dilute. Still, it works for plating.
@@kellyvcraig auto parts store battery acid is already watered down. This reaction, is much the same as adding salt to ice water. No chemical reaction actually happens but in the case of acids heat is generated vs cold. Or your cold pack that uses water and urea. Now once the reaction has happened i.e. at the chemical factory when they initially diluted the acid, then you will not generally see further reaction in the consumer grade acids.
Cody's Lab did a long video on this years ago ua-cam.com/video/RS_TrEbaizg/v-deo.html
@@preciousplasticph, good to know, metzindurtries. Thanks.
Thanks, shame you couldn’t point us as to how commercial Cu plating get more durable results.
You need a little salt in the vinegar
o melhor... obrigado
but the pieces are made of aluminum?
no, I used steel
How would you recommend I do this on a bigger scale, like brake calipers?
Get a 5 gallon bucket and mix 5parts muriatic acid to 1 part distilled water. Hook a piece of copper water pipe to 1 wire and your caliper to the other. Constantly stir the solution to prevent uneven plating, preferably using a magnetic stirring plate and a stir bar so you don't inhale the fumes.
brush electroplating
You should not have added the water to the acid. That is extremely dangerous. Always add the acid to the water. Also please wear personal protective equipment (PPE); particularly acid proof gloves and safety glasses. Thanks for the video but look after yourself. Cheers.
HCL is already wet. it is only anhydrous acids that need this.
I think the idea here is that when you introduce a strong acid solution into the water, the amount of acid versus water starts at zero (the water without acid) and gradually increases as you continue to pour in the acid.
I have had acid solutions generate intense heat if I poured a bit of water into the volume of strong acid, in some cases violently releasing bubbles of water vapor (possibly hydrogen also) and splashing acid everywhere. Wearing simple nitrile gloves and basic eye protection helped me avoid injury if I made this mistake.
I totally agree about adding acid to water. Reversing the process with water added to concentrated acids can lead to a violent chemical reaction and personal injury.
It's interesting that Mr Wagner told users to don rubber gloves and safety glasses but didn't follow his own stipulations.
Research triple chrome plating.
any reason not to use a solution of root kill from a hardware store which is mostly copper sulfate?
heh someone asked the same tree months ago.
it would be better,but he said he just did not have it
👌👍
I am really sorry . You thought we were stupid. I tested the baking soda solution. As I guessed, it doesn't work. For example, iron metal turns completely black and no copper sits on iron. I also tried vinegar. It didn't work either. I also saw and tested other people's videos. They don't work either. In addition, both vinegar and baking soda should be blue, but not blue in your video. What's the matter
Have you thought about that if none of the methods worked for you from multiple videos then you are doing something wrong? And this guy maybe doesn't think that his audience is stupid? lol
It sound like you got your electrodes mixed up and you ended up oxidizing your steel part. The solutions turn very blue/turquoise/green if the concentration is high enough, and faint blue if concentration is low. This also works better on stainless steel since it has nickel in it, and doesn't work on regular iron if there is enough contamination of the electrolyte, using distilled water is critical, and good quality reagents too.
you sound like a evil scientist. Now, make a rocket from a serial box and a hotwheel, then make a world killing bomb from a sock and a tube of ky jelly
The KY Jwlly is part of the reward,not the bomb itself!
And anyway Herr DrEvil von Badshit is busy with his plateing therapy as per court order. He does bomb DiY in November