for electro plating use a coffee filter and wrap the anodes in it to catch the large chunks of copper (do not wrap the PCB) i myself use a laser to etch double sided pcbs , i use flatcam and Lightburn to generate the cnc job , i then take a cheap pcb with copper already in it , coat it in spray paint ,and then burn the negative of the traces of the pcb on both sides with the laser , then i etch it ,and give it a green coat of paint like a solder mask , and then burn away the green paint to reveal the solder pads . its less involved since im bad with chemicals ,my reason for doing this is that shipping from pcb way or any other company is 25 $ plus so i just do it at home
Turned out the main issue was the excessive resistance of my alligator clips resulting in the two copper electrodes having appreciably different potential and trying to electroplate between them.
Graphite spray ,scrap and Sand,electrocopper,Holes are metalised...tyour laser Paint système I use too,but m'y lasers ends After a total of some hours of engraving...and i dont know why....maybe IS thé common supply of the laser with Steppers 12 v...some surges maybe during motions
Interesting, I may give this a try and report back if it worked for me too. Concentrated NaOH tends to oxidize copper too, so it may be a worth improvement.
I tried and it does work, thanks! Your suggestion was included in the latest version of the Process 01 documentation cdn.hackaday.io/files/1804227719174848/Process%2001.pdf
did you test your vias with current? i found it very useful to do this test in the developement of my process my 0,3mm vias usually can take about 5A, 1,2mm vias could conduct even more then 25A of current with a test batch and the vias fusing at about much lower currents, i found it useful to use that as an indicator also it turns out: you can fairly use a lot of other colloid solutions for activation (even copper in NaBH4 itself), it requires an additional etching and desmearing step+ sensitation steps tho
Interesting suggestions, I did not test the vias to failure with current, but I made a few boards since I shared the process and all of them are still working fine. My smallest vias are 0.5mm. I'd be interested if you shared (maybe in a video?) your NaBH4 activation process, I don't have that chemical in my lab, but if it turns out to be useful I may try to get some.
Just to clarify, the main point of this process compared to a PCB mill is to get plated vias, right? More importantly, is it possible for either the palladium activation or electroless plating steps to be masked? Because if it is, wouldn't it be possible to just deposit the traces directly onto bare fiberboard? (Ignoring for a moment how to connect the cathode during electroplating...)
Have a look at the Applied Science video linked in the second part of Process 01, he describes something similar. It's not easy as the palladium activator would adhere also to the masking material and would cause unwanted plating
Is it best to use acetone or 70% alcohol to clean the PCB before applying the film? Is Sodium Hydroxide better to use than Sodium Carbonate for the developer? I tried with NaCO3 for 2 mins and did not get great results. I need to rub the board gently with my finger afterwards.
For cleaning, anything that displaces water and evaporates quickly leaving no residue. For the developer, look for "ORDYL Alpha 300 DRY FILM datasheet". Even if your negative photoresist is not of the same brand, they tend to have similar chemistry. It suggests Na2CO3 as developer. NaOH would probably unselectively strip everything. Negative photoresists work differently than your regular positive presensitized boards. The photoresist is gelled so it can cover drilled holes with no mechanical support underneath, but as a side effect it does not wash away with the developer, mechanical action is needed to scrub away the developed gel. I think industrially spray jets are used to deliver the developer and exert the required mechanical force, but a small sponge can be used in an amateur setting. It takes some time to get used to it.
I wonder if it's possible to use PCB milling to avoid the photolithography steps at the end. I suspect once the hills are drilled and plated you could just isolation-mill the the PCB as usual. Of course, the limitations of isolation-milling would still apply, but you wouldn't have to worry about protecting the plated through holes from etchant.
Excellent video! A couple questions if you don’t mind: 1. Did you make your palladium activator as shown here? ua-cam.com/video/mVl-XhqREqM/v-deo.html 2. Have you tested using tin plating as mask? Basic process is mask areas to be removed, plate with tin, remove mask, and etch with enchant that ignores tin (the right etchant is tricky, usually NH4Cl or (NH4)2SO4). Tin resist is often used commercially, protects the vias better 3. What size via/trace are you able to get to? They look like about 0.5 mm drill with 0.2 mm traces 4. Do you have a link to a written guide? I would like to try your process out Thanks for the video, excellent explanation of the process
1. Yes, the activator formula is from that video, while the plating solution is adapted from various sources, mainly the metal finishing book 2. I have tried, unfortunately I failed, you can see the attempt in this video ua-cam.com/video/SPGJGW7QOJQ/v-deo.html 3. Smallest I have tried is 0.2mm traces/0.2mm space in a test sample. Will try 0.15 too shortly. Below that my laser printer becomes the limit 4. Yes! uploaded it here: hackaday.io/project/180422-process-01-an-open-source-2-layer-pcb-process cdn.hackaday.io/files/1804227719174848/Process%2001.pdf
@@hydrogentime2872 Have you experimented with surface finishes at all? I thought about trying to do OSP. It seems quite easy - purchase BTA (benzotriazole, sold cheaply as antifog for camera lenses), dissolve in IPA to create a 0.033 molar solution. Then just: - Clean PCB - H2O Rinse - 5-10% H2SO4 rinse (to microetch for better OSP adhesion) - H2O rinse - About 10s in BTA solution - DI rinse - Dry It seemed easy enough, but I haven't found any sources trying it, and I haven't gotten around to trying. So perhaps since you have the equipment, you might be able to try and make a video about it:) Source for the process: www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/10103434 www.pcbcart.com/article/content/basics-of-OSP-surface-finish.html If that works, then all that is missing is a way to print the legend!
I'm not sure traditional copper etchants can etch nickel too, if they don't you'll have problems at the final etch stage. I know nickel plating is used after copper plating when PCB gold plating is needed, as gold plating directly over copper is troublesome, but I think this is done after etching? Not sure, if I ever try gold plating I'll give more thoughts to the application of nickel chemistry to PCB manufacturing and maybe make a video. No plans yet, though.
That's actually awesome! I wonder if a home made 4+ layers board would be feasible. From what I've seen on this video - ua-cam.com/video/sIV0icM_Ujo/v-deo.html -, the only difference would be not drilling the internal layers until the entire PCB is ready. That'll require some sort of jig to keep everything aligned. PS: came here from Hackaday!
In theory it should be possible, but it would require even more steps and be even more time consuming. I've also read that after drilling you also need some chemicals to etch some of the nonconductive material of the hole walls to expose more copper from the inner layers in order to get a perfect connection.
AgCl? no way, it decomposes on expose to daylight, I know how to use other silver compounds for electroless deposition, but AgCl is definitely not the way to go, for anyone wondering
@@taster2365yes with silver. activation is done in the same way as in the pictures, only a slightly different composition but the conditions are the same :) the pcb board becomes dark from the silver. then we clean it and the rest remains in the holes. anyway it works. as for the formula, I do not give it.. but there are many similar ones on google patents
What a jewel of a video. You are a very good teacher.
incredible process, im really frustrated with my boards not having hole plating. thanks so much for this!
Be careful if you try to replicate this, you need to have some chemistry experience and a fumehood
for electro plating use a coffee filter and wrap the anodes in it to catch the large chunks of copper (do not wrap the PCB)
i myself use a laser to etch double sided pcbs , i use flatcam and Lightburn to generate the cnc job , i then take a cheap pcb with copper already in it , coat it in spray paint ,and then burn the negative of the traces of the pcb on both sides with the laser , then i etch it ,and give it a green coat of paint like a solder mask , and then burn away the green paint to reveal the solder pads .
its less involved since im bad with chemicals ,my reason for doing this is that shipping from pcb way or any other company is 25 $ plus
so i just do it at home
Turned out the main issue was the excessive resistance of my alligator clips resulting in the two copper electrodes having appreciably different potential and trying to electroplate between them.
Graphite spray ,scrap and Sand,electrocopper,Holes are metalised...tyour laser Paint système I use too,but m'y lasers ends After a total of some hours of engraving...and i dont know why....maybe IS thé common supply of the laser with Steppers 12 v...some surges maybe during motions
Ldgraphy guy here. Stripping photoresist (step 24) I found that acetone works well and is less scary than concentrated NaOH.
Interesting, I may give this a try and report back if it worked for me too. Concentrated NaOH tends to oxidize copper too, so it may be a worth improvement.
I tried and it does work, thanks! Your suggestion was included in the latest version of the Process 01 documentation cdn.hackaday.io/files/1804227719174848/Process%2001.pdf
did you test your vias with current?
i found it very useful to do this test in the developement of my process
my 0,3mm vias usually can take about 5A, 1,2mm vias could conduct even more then 25A of current
with a test batch and the vias fusing at about much lower currents, i found it useful to use that as an indicator
also it turns out: you can fairly use a lot of other colloid solutions for activation (even copper in NaBH4 itself), it requires an additional etching and desmearing step+ sensitation steps tho
Interesting suggestions, I did not test the vias to failure with current, but I made a few boards since I shared the process and all of them are still working fine. My smallest vias are 0.5mm. I'd be interested if you shared (maybe in a video?) your NaBH4 activation process, I don't have that chemical in my lab, but if it turns out to be useful I may try to get some.
Just to clarify, the main point of this process compared to a PCB mill is to get plated vias, right?
More importantly, is it possible for either the palladium activation or electroless plating steps to be masked? Because if it is, wouldn't it be possible to just deposit the traces directly onto bare fiberboard? (Ignoring for a moment how to connect the cathode during electroplating...)
Have a look at the Applied Science video linked in the second part of Process 01, he describes something similar. It's not easy as the palladium activator would adhere also to the masking material and would cause unwanted plating
Isnt possible because ok for electroless,but thé main layer must Been with copper sulphate electrolytic bath and cathode connections for whole traces
Is it best to use acetone or 70% alcohol to clean the PCB before applying the film? Is Sodium Hydroxide better to use than Sodium Carbonate for the developer? I tried with NaCO3 for 2 mins and did not get great results. I need to rub the board gently with my finger afterwards.
For cleaning, anything that displaces water and evaporates quickly leaving no residue.
For the developer, look for "ORDYL Alpha 300 DRY FILM datasheet". Even if your negative photoresist is not of the same brand, they tend to have similar chemistry. It suggests Na2CO3 as developer. NaOH would probably unselectively strip everything.
Negative photoresists work differently than your regular positive presensitized boards. The photoresist is gelled so it can cover drilled holes with no mechanical support underneath, but as a side effect it does not wash away with the developer, mechanical action is needed to scrub away the developed gel. I think industrially spray jets are used to deliver the developer and exert the required mechanical force, but a small sponge can be used in an amateur setting. It takes some time to get used to it.
I wonder if it's possible to use PCB milling to avoid the photolithography steps at the end. I suspect once the hills are drilled and plated you could just isolation-mill the the PCB as usual. Of course, the limitations of isolation-milling would still apply, but you wouldn't have to worry about protecting the plated through holes from etchant.
I see no reason why milling should not work, but in my opinion milled PCBs are harder to solder, especially with SMD components
@@hydrogentime2872 Yes, I agree. It is harder, but it also cuts the number of steps more-or-less in half
Genius!
Excellent video! A couple questions if you don’t mind:
1. Did you make your palladium activator as shown here? ua-cam.com/video/mVl-XhqREqM/v-deo.html
2. Have you tested using tin plating as mask? Basic process is mask areas to be removed, plate with tin, remove mask, and etch with enchant that ignores tin (the right etchant is tricky, usually NH4Cl or (NH4)2SO4). Tin resist is often used commercially, protects the vias better
3. What size via/trace are you able to get to? They look like about 0.5 mm drill with 0.2 mm traces
4. Do you have a link to a written guide? I would like to try your process out
Thanks for the video, excellent explanation of the process
1. Yes, the activator formula is from that video, while the plating solution is adapted from various sources, mainly the metal finishing book
2. I have tried, unfortunately I failed, you can see the attempt in this video ua-cam.com/video/SPGJGW7QOJQ/v-deo.html
3. Smallest I have tried is 0.2mm traces/0.2mm space in a test sample. Will try 0.15 too shortly. Below that my laser printer becomes the limit
4. Yes! uploaded it here:
hackaday.io/project/180422-process-01-an-open-source-2-layer-pcb-process
cdn.hackaday.io/files/1804227719174848/Process%2001.pdf
@@hydrogentime2872 absolutely amazing, thank you for the information!! I will have to try your process out
@@tgross35 Let me know if it works or you encounter difficulties
@@hydrogentime2872 Have you experimented with surface finishes at all? I thought about trying to do OSP. It seems quite easy - purchase BTA (benzotriazole, sold cheaply as antifog for camera lenses), dissolve in IPA to create a 0.033 molar solution. Then just:
- Clean PCB
- H2O Rinse
- 5-10% H2SO4 rinse (to microetch for better OSP adhesion)
- H2O rinse
- About 10s in BTA solution
- DI rinse
- Dry
It seemed easy enough, but I haven't found any sources trying it, and I haven't gotten around to trying. So perhaps since you have the equipment, you might be able to try and make a video about it:)
Source for the process: www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/10103434
www.pcbcart.com/article/content/basics-of-OSP-surface-finish.html
If that works, then all that is missing is a way to print the legend!
About point no.2 - you can full cover hole with dry film and etching - please refer to this link - pyramidg.com/emails/data/pcb_manufacturing.jpg
Can this process work with electroless nickel solution?
I'm not sure traditional copper etchants can etch nickel too, if they don't you'll have problems at the final etch stage. I know nickel plating is used after copper plating when PCB gold plating is needed, as gold plating directly over copper is troublesome, but I think this is done after etching? Not sure, if I ever try gold plating I'll give more thoughts to the application of nickel chemistry to PCB manufacturing and maybe make a video. No plans yet, though.
Rich Containts
That's actually awesome! I wonder if a home made 4+ layers board would be feasible. From what I've seen on this video - ua-cam.com/video/sIV0icM_Ujo/v-deo.html -, the only difference would be not drilling the internal layers until the entire PCB is ready. That'll require some sort of jig to keep everything aligned.
PS: came here from Hackaday!
In theory it should be possible, but it would require even more steps and be even more time consuming. I've also read that after drilling you also need some chemicals to etch some of the nonconductive material of the hole walls to expose more copper from the inner layers in order to get a perfect connection.
Your process is very expensive because you use pdcl2. I have another solution to use AgCl for activator.
Can you share it please?
Post a link to your procedure? I'm curious.
hello, please share some details
AgCl? no way, it decomposes on expose to daylight, I know how to use other silver compounds for electroless deposition, but AgCl is definitely not the way to go, for anyone wondering
@@taster2365yes with silver. activation is done in the same way as in the pictures, only a slightly different composition but the conditions are the same :) the pcb board becomes dark from the silver. then we clean it and the rest remains in the holes. anyway it works. as for the formula, I do not give it.. but there are many similar ones on google patents
Mntep gan
italianissimo