Test drove both cars and due to practicality and a sunroof I had to go with my 2014 Si HFP. I absolutely LOVE my Si. besides at 6'2" the BRZ was way too small
I disagree with the height thing. I have a 15 Si and my girlfriend has a 16 frs and i have MUCH better headroom in the frs compared to my Si and I'm only 5'11. I also tend to have my seat upright which doesn't make it any easier but still more clearance in the FRS. I think it's mostly due to the much lower seating position in the FRS
mack cummy actually i just test drove a 2016 frs and i thought i would love it. Nope! It was too slow. Test drove the focus st and fiesta st and man they were both so much better than frs
I just bought an FR-S yesterday, and I love every second of it. Whats funny is I actually test drove a 2010 Civic SI sedan and chose the FR-S instead. They are just two different animals, but two awesome animals. I wouldn't mind having both cars one day. I have my Beater Audi a4 that is front wheel drive, but honestly the Civic si is more fun to drive than my audi in my book. If it were a quattro that might change.
Definitely. The 86 has much more potential as an all around track car. While the Civic would be the better option if you're more into roll racing people on the freeway
Thanks for the people who suggested! Got my first car yesterday and my dad bought me the '13 Honda Civic Si sedan and I'm really loving it as a first car and one thing that surprised me is that dad and mom also gave me another car and its a challenger r/t!!
Picked up my BRZ three weeks ago and have not stopped smiling. I owned an 88 VW GTI years ago and almost went that route again. I loved that GTI but this BRZ is in a whole different class in terms of being a true sports car.
If you do some research, people are getting well into the 30 mpg range on the BRZ. Also there is a BRZ with a turbo kit putting out 520 hp to the wheels on stock engine. So for those who are wanting more power. It's possible too.
Also I wanted to say I wanna hug the person at hyundi who came up with the genesis ever since they made that car every car company is making rear wheel drive. Its amazing how many people think front wheel has better handling but generally its just cause they are lighter and smaller cars. Now that they are making the same little light cars RWD the driving and handling is just great with the ability to have way more fun.
I think they don't just because of the price jump, would be quite significant. Probably add 5 to 10 grand and do you really want to pay 35 grand for a civic? Does anybody want to pay that? I don't know if many people would. But that's just my opinion on why I think they don't make it RWD
honda did lose their touch and their style is outdated... even my 2005 honda s2000 looks newer and updated than the 2014 honda civic si. Shame on you honda. You put the best engines in the civic but forget to fire the civic designer.
I totally agree. Honda was at it's peak for street performance and forgot what the true essence of what honda really stands for. The current image of honda isn't the same anymore after they stopped production model cars only made in Japan such as the s2000 and acura nsx. Worst move by honda.
MetalsForBrunch BMDGaming The s2000 is still an amazing looking car. That era hondas designs are timeless. Even old preludes looks nice. I was in an all honda jdm crew back in those days with my jdm acura integra. Honda could of catered to us and they could have still controlled that market but they disrespected us constantly, While subura and mitsu took over that market. And as we grew up we moved on to mercs and other brands.
In Canada we have snow. When it snows don't think about leaving your driveway with a RWD transmission. If there is any snow on the ground don't think about it either. Assuming the road is dry then you can drive it.
Complaining that the tires aren't grippy enough.. Haha! I know, it's his job to critique the car, but.. Those stock tires make perfect sense for several good reasons.. The lack of grip makes it easier to kick the rear end out a bit, which is what the car was made for! They are much cheaper to replace after you burn them up while having fun.. AND, Toyota/Subaru knew that if enthusiasts wanted to upgrade to big meaty, sticky tires, stockers would never have been good enough anyways!!.. So, those are exactly the right tires for the car!
FredNitroJunk Aren't they like 60 or $70? I didn't say they were cheap, just cheaper.. And they are much cheaper than a higher performance car's tires. Corvette tires for example start at like $400 apiece!
bliglum 222$ each (canadian but still...) when i brought mine 1 year ago they were 235$ piece. I don't know if the link will work: m.tires.canadiantire.ca/mt/tires.canadiantire.ca/en/tires/all-season-touring-tires/product/0080319P/michelin-primacy-hp/2084977/?un_jtt_jse=14a411c9087_c0a8621247f89a4b80e3fe9018e7b383&un_jtt_v_searchbyvehicle=2013_Scion_FR-S_2%20Dr%20Coupe_Base_215%252F45R17%2523REGULAR%2523Both
FredNitroJunk Shnat! Well, I wouldn't go with OEM tires then for sure.. Tires must be pretty pricy where you are too, because I can find examples of that size (215/45 R17) for as cheap as $62 each! Though, better brand, higher performance running gear is around $100-$120.
bliglum well, for about the same price (240$ or so) i have installed 255/35ZR18 (245 front) hankook ventus evo 12 on my frs. Very good tires if you ask me. Safe under any condition, sporty enough for the track, good looking tread, very satisfy. But i do agree why your opinion: they put it on that car to make it more "sporty", the get a drifting feel at low speed. The down side is that all the safety features go crazy at every corner. You quickly get use to activate the sport mode as soon as you turn on the ingnition.
The reason some people buy SIs is cause some people actually live where snow falls. Plus not everyone can afford a rear wheel drive car and another daily commuter. My friend tried commuting to work in the snow in BRZ and couldn't get out of his neighborhood. I have an 08 SI and would take a BRZ any day but this damn snow wouldn't suit it, especially in the chicagoland area where I'm from. These new SIs have pretty good torque though, I'll give them that.
TyranitarComedian You mean one more HP? And what practicality? They're both 2 door coupes. And while you get ONE more HP with the civic the BRZ weighs less so it's still faster. And let's not forget that you are losing RWD with the civic.
All of the power goes to the center diff in end of the trans and it sends it backward or forward depending on traction. The Evo is different because of the horizontal mounting of the engine. The split on my Wrx is 50/50 all the time. The STI can go more to the rear with 35/65 set on the DCCD. Newer Rally cars are turning into land yachts so i do understand your point but add boost and you cant tell. My car has a horrible suspension but this thing grips even in the worst situations
Harris Anwar nah the sedan got redesigned in 2013 when they changed up the interior with the carbon fiber looking plastic and the redesigned front and rear bumper
I live in North Jersey right now until i'm done with school. After going through so many cars i just don't consider front wheel drive cars sports cars. They are sporty but thats as far they can go in my eyes. Being able to control a cars direction with the throttle is somewhat important to me and is something my Subaru lacks until i get the funds to finish the suspension. In a front wheel drive car you are always at the mercy of the front wheels.
I love my honda s2000 and I would have to say that the BRZ is the winner. More interesting, better looking, lighter stronger and RWD. I will never drive civic si and I pray that honda will release the civic type R turbo in the near future. Honda is wasting a ton of money on their civic si production bc no one will ever pay so much for a heavy slow souless honda. Shame on you Honda.
***** civic si does outsell the brz with its long history.. Brz out sells the civic si this year and a rwd or awd is the proper sportscar. Civics have the edge on FWD.
***** lol i meant toyota have a town name after them in japan. if u want to talk about who sell the most car, the answer is toyota with their corolla. corolla out sold any car since it was first release and is still being rated as the most sold car in the world.
honda civic has been the most sold car in north america for 16 years in a row, i guess they are doing something right, very reliable car, toyota corolla comes in 2nd
I had a Civic Si for a few years as well... I test drove the Scion FR-S... it's amazing how different it feels. Plus, the layout of the engine bay was designed with car enthusiasts in mind... The alternator is within arm's reach on top/in front of the engine, and there is space behind the engine for a bolt-on turbo if they make one. Car drives beautifully. Go drive one you won't be disappointed!
I own a 15 Si and my girlfriend has a 16 FRS and that car is much more capable for track related modifications. The Si handles decently sure, but that understeer isn't fun at all. Whereas the FRS feels so planted and grippy especially on turn in even with stock tires and suspension. My car currently has coilovers, camber arms, sway bars a rear subframe brace along with aftermarket wheels and tires. My girlfriends frs only has tires and lowering springs and she can easily pass lose me in the canyons
If you want to take a girl on a date, they'll pick the brz over the civic regardless of any knowledge on cars.. they'll still want to sit in a brz. LOL
MetalsForBrunch i know most women (that arent knowledgeable about cars) only care if the car is 1.) New/ newish 2.) not broken down 3.) comfortable/ clean interior 4.) sometimes the brand....ok alot of the time the brand (catches their eye if its exotic) I had a 2013 civic SI coupe , and most the women i dated when i had it loved my car and how "aerodynamic" it looks and that it was sexy, but now that i have my 2015 Mustang GT, they fucking beg me to drive them around lol, not really, but they always comment on how nice it is walking up to it after dinner, if i got a BRZ instead of a civic a couple years ago i would have gotten more comments on how it looks outside but my god that thing is fucking gutted and god awful boring to sit in
Where do you live? I'd consider one if I were in this price range & couldn't afford a 2nd car for winter. Not sure I can think of any other new, 2 door, FWD I'd really rather have. (in the US anyways)
Like the review except for the last comment about FWD for snow. A RWD can do just fine in the snow, and with snow tires I actually prefer RWD…easier to keep the car stable, imo.
loan for the BBO? I paid $1500 for mine. they are about $600 for a core on Clist. or $1500 for a GMC motorhome (66-76) and get the THM425 with it. a good 425 is $80 at the junk yard, a rebuilt unit is ~$400. its a fairly simple swap to put it in the mini, everything mentioned is insanely easy to work on. if you pay 5k for the mini, thats 18k left over to re do the mini, or have a shop do this for you this is an example. if you want a fun DD, there are much cheaper/better ways to do it.
What my cousin did to ease the pain of the looks from the front, is open the headlight housing and sprayed it black thus the chrome is gone. Back taillights are still kinda ugly, but i've driven it. He had an aftermarket exhaust on and it sounds badass, very throaty not bee-like like Hondas. Interior is very nicely designed, but seats are very low. Its a fun car to drive, and it will have its following, but they should've offered VVT-i but don't know if it will work with boxer engine.
And it all depends on what type of track. A high percentage of tracks are high speed ones. There are not a lot of twisty type that people race on a lot. Also they only thing limiting a new mustang is the drive shaft, speed limiter, and low eco tune. Turn those around and it is a completely different type of car
Low grip Primacy tires are actually expensive "summer touring" tires. A step up to UHP Summer tires does shaves seconds off lap times. Won't let you drift the car as easily at lower speeds. The BRZ was DESIGNED with ability to carry 4 track tires and tools - so Subaru never expected you to race with the stock tires.
ricardo Volta Its a 4 cylinder Subaru boxer engine. If you open the hood on either the Frs or BRZ "Subaru" is very clearly written on top of the engine.
Brzs are sexy toys. Civics are what they always have been ... Civics! A nice, reliable, no nonsense, family automobile. FYI: I own both cars. Both great cars btw. One point Id like to point out : The FACT that Absolutly NO ONE turns around to stare at a white stock Civic. BRZ wins
which car would be better for everyday driving kind of thing? i live in the city and i don't plan to race, but both these cars are very appealing to me. any suggestions?
True but you can't factor out that most of the guys that buy these brand new cars are paying around $300 a month along with having warranty. No one will have $25k straight up to buy either the big block Oldsmobile and Mini along with trying to get a loan out for both cars (assuming the Oldsmobile is a 60s car). Not just that but the feel of brand new compared to someone elses' ownership is a great feeling. Knowing you don't have to deal with any previous owners' problem with the car.
How do you not understear like crazy in that BRZ? (I'm sitting in one right now contemplating all the FWD cars I've had that didn't understear anywhere near as bad as this RWD one.)
with the scion/subaru you can flick the car around and it just won't fight back. You can also take a tight corner much better because of the rwd vs the civic's fwd. Also, the civic feels like a tank around the corners.
@ehcivicracer, I dont agree with you on that had a ej1 coupe with full interior, full stereo, a/c, power steering,locks,windows, sun roof so i dont think it was any lighter than a Integra gsr. I went to my local drag strip when i recently put in a '94 us spec gsr b18 bone stock still breathing out of the civic 1.5inch exhaust and 15inch street tires it was still able to put down a 14.7 1/4mile time. I bet on slicks it would also drop to low 14's, bolts ons mybe high 13's?
OK ..the understeer rules out the Civic for a balance crazy like me...and of course a car with summer tires is much faster... the downside of the BRZ is how low it is for street visibility behind other cars so could actually pass them to have fun
Damn! I forgot about the Michelin "Prius" sucky factor. Major mistake by TOyota-Subaru. What were they thinking? Is there any FRS-BRZ owner here? What brand of tires did you replace those with? Did you stick to 17 " wheels?
what I like about Honda is there engines they make some of the best engines in fact It was announced earlier this year that Honda would supply engines for McLaren from 2015 having been enticed back to the sport by the new but rwd is much more fun to drive than fwd good for snow
you can't kill a honda engine, honda makes the most engines in the world, engines for cars, mortorcycles, generators, snowblwers, lawnmowers ect ect....
Because FF can change from under-steer to power off over-steer in a pinch and because the typically an FF layout is 70% mass forwards when this happens its almost impossible to recover. HENCE THE POINT TO THE 86! It's stable right up to the point it looses traction and even then you can steer it out of trouble.
WOW that new Civic is making 170ft/lb of torque, thats a TON of torque from that engine! (K20 or K24?). The torque is finally matching the HP of the engine, thats incredible to me.
@Charlie Harper i beg to differ mate. i have two bmw's both rwd. my m3 sleeps thru winter, but my 328i is my winter beater...a good set of winters and traction control along with s steady right foot is all u need to beat winter driving. i've never had any problems.
When you look at it, Toyota and Subaru spent years developing the BRZ/FR-S while Honda just takes a regular Civic, upgrades suspension, stronger motor and better tires. I doubt Honda took time to perfect the Civic unlike Subaru did with the BRZ.
I do not understand why you are telling me this, I simply stated RWD has more parasitic loss in its drivetrain compared to the simplified FWD. I have no issues with either drivetrain layout.
That's still work that YOU have to do. Some ppl just want to buy brand new off the lot cars that are fun and make $300 a month payments on them. I also mentioned warranty which you should factor in. If something goes wrong, that's money out of your pocket along with time to diagnose the problem and time to fix it. With warranty, you just bring it to the dealer and have them fix it. If it takes more than a day to fix a problem, they give you a loaner car. Pretty easy for just $300 a month.
Since the S2000 has been out of production, a low mileage can be compared to the BRZ and Si for the used versus new argument. I love my S2K, but I'll probably pick up a BRZ for a DD after the M3 kicks the bucket. I want a balanced car.
I hate how people talk about the prius tires on the brz and frs. They were put on the cars for a reason, to have fun at low speed with minimal grip and force a driver to learn how to drive. Toyota has literally said this too.
Well in iowa we have snow to, and I know plenty of people that drive a rwd car and get around just fine. Granted it does make it does help to have fwd or 4x4
I stand corrected. Good to know the US's AWD's aren't as watered down as they were recently. As you said, they're land yachts anymore though and I can't really consider them sports cars. (you can add power & grip to pretty much anything these days) If only either company would make a 2/3d.. instead they just add size/weight/power to their 4d family boats. I got excited for Subaru/the segment, when I first heard of the BRZ. Then I realized they weren't going to have their own AWD variant. :(
Actually, most tests put the BRZ at almost exactly the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile run times as the SI, ~6.2 sec and ~15 sec. So unless you are running mods, no, no it really won't. You are going to need a Focus ST if you actually want to outrun one of these things and stay in the same price range.
I regularly amaze people with how well I've got around in the winter in my Miata's, but yea.. I don't care what the diehard RWD guys say, in equally skilled hands/tires etc, FWD's definitely got an edge in blustery stuff, especially when it gets deep. Push vs. pull, (as well as what you said), as well as weight distribution & whatnot mixed in.
BRZ is such a great car for the money. While it may not be fast in a straight line, it handles amazingly around corners. Plus everyone likes to powerslide :D
Not sure what they were thinking other than those economy tires helped achieve the published mileage numbers. Not bad for the price, but it'd be nice if it had more power stock. I know it's not in production anymore, but a S2000 v.s. BRZ/FRS would be entertaining :)
Its worth the price brand new but I know what you mean, wait til someone puts 50-75k miles or so on it then get it used at around 15-20k or even less. How are you going to reshape the lights? I don't understand what you're plans are.
My 08 M5 cost me around 32k and my 13' Accord v6 35k but once my warranty is over on the M5. I might just sell it right away, I've barely had the M5 for couple months and it had an expensive leak already good thing the dealer covered it. That's one of the reasons i sold my old 05 745i, to expensive to maintain it without warranty.
if you ever have a chance to go to a ice skating arena, get a single person to sit down on his/her skates, then try either pulling that person from the front, then compare it to pushing the person from behind. You will realize that pulling will provide you with more traction.
Subaru BRZ and Honda Civic should even be in the same sentence when discussing about performance. RWD vs FWD is all there is to know. Regardless how much HP kids can mod into the hood of a Civic, it can never corner like a BRZ or drift.
You guys should do this with the 2018 BRZ and the 2018 Civic Si HFP Coupe.
@random tv 1 rent
BRZ for RWD Fun and the Civic Si for an All-around practicality. Can't go wrong with either, what I would love to see is a BRZ with a K24.
BRZ with a K24 is full of win.
That's a new S2000.
k20*
Jeff Holbrook K24 ;) more efficient and may get more power out of it.
@@admirkaralic7209 you can make more power out of k20. K24 are wierd
Test drove both cars and due to practicality and a sunroof I had to go with my 2014 Si HFP. I absolutely LOVE my Si. besides at 6'2" the BRZ was way too small
I disagree with the height thing. I have a 15 Si and my girlfriend has a 16 frs and i have MUCH better headroom in the frs compared to my Si and I'm only 5'11. I also tend to have my seat upright which doesn't make it any easier but still more clearance in the FRS. I think it's mostly due to the much lower seating position in the FRS
Red floor mats gives at least 5 more hp
The man drivingvthe brz has a track suit with a honda logo! LOL
+yadvinder gakhal i was looking for someone to say this
I drove both. Liked both, but I went and got a 2012 Civic SI sedan.
Why? More comfortable?
Adrian Lopez the look, performance(vtec), price, and practicality. the interior is better too.
Michael Massinburg I always say the same thing! Vtec, practicality and interior. Upside of the frs is handling and rear wheel drive tho
+Adrian Lopez If that's all you care about then yes, get an FRS
mack cummy actually i just test drove a 2016 frs and i thought i would love it. Nope! It was too slow. Test drove the focus st and fiesta st and man they were both so much better than frs
I just bought an FR-S yesterday, and I love every second of it. Whats funny is I actually test drove a 2010 Civic SI sedan and chose the FR-S instead. They are just two different animals, but two awesome animals. I wouldn't mind having both cars one day. I have my Beater Audi a4 that is front wheel drive, but honestly the Civic si is more fun to drive than my audi in my book. If it were a quattro that might change.
Si has a better engine. BRZ/FRS has better drivetrain better track car. Depends what fits ur needs.
I agree would have been sick would have been a K20 k24 boosted or supercharged BRZ swap drift car
Definitely. The 86 has much more potential as an all around track car. While the Civic would be the better option if you're more into roll racing people on the freeway
Oh btw i dont hate frs/brz, its just that i dont like the way it looks, its just my taste but still a nice car with a boxer engine an rwd.
Thanks for the people who suggested! Got my first car yesterday and my dad bought me the '13 Honda Civic Si sedan and I'm really loving it as a first car and one thing that surprised me is that dad and mom also gave me another car and its a challenger r/t!!
0:42 civic si body roll seems painful...
True
Nothing a sway bar can't fix
Thumbs up for the civic...maybe it's because I have one
Anyone remember the old AWD civic hatchbacks? Imagine how awesome that would that be with with a modern powerplant!
BRZ hands down.
Philip Geleta both are great cars
Philip Geleta look who’s talking. Little civic fan boy with a fart can.
Philip Geleta says the guy with civic that can’t turn for shit
im a civic si fan but that thing is just fugly. looking forward to owning a frs/brz in the future
Picked up my BRZ three weeks ago and have not stopped smiling. I owned an 88 VW GTI years ago and almost went that route again. I loved that GTI but this BRZ is in a whole different class in terms of being a true sports car.
25 grand for a smile.. damn being happy is expensive nowadays
If you do some research, people are getting well into the 30 mpg range on the BRZ. Also there is a BRZ with a turbo kit putting out 520 hp to the wheels on stock engine. So for those who are wanting more power. It's possible too.
haha "just a FEW years ago" puberty lol
Also I wanted to say I wanna hug the person at hyundi who came up with the genesis ever since they made that car every car company is making rear wheel drive. Its amazing how many people think front wheel has better handling but generally its just cause they are lighter and smaller cars. Now that they are making the same little light cars RWD the driving and handling is just great with the ability to have way more fun.
Honda. Just make the civic Si RWD with turbo.
Danny Hayson why?
Jarryd Jackson Why must you ask yourself 😅
I don't know! What's the answer??
Honda wanted to make it classic and original, all the civics and most Hondas are front wheel drive.
I think they don't just because of the price jump, would be quite significant. Probably add 5 to 10 grand and do you really want to pay 35 grand for a civic? Does anybody want to pay that? I don't know if many people would. But that's just my opinion on why I think they don't make it RWD
doing reviews for the US market in Canada. Interesting. Do you guys use actual US spec cars?
I see the problem the civic has no stickers.
Young auto enthusiast only thought about the Civic Si a few years ago!!?? 2012 - |(+/- 2)| is not that long ago. That's one broad generalization.
Subaru is better looking and has superior handling.
I'd stick with the Civic SI. It's a fun daily driver with enough space to fit most things that you need.
Good review I like the track time and HONDA WINS ;-)
honda did lose their touch and their style is outdated... even my 2005 honda s2000 looks newer and updated than the 2014 honda civic si. Shame on you honda. You put the best engines in the civic but forget to fire the civic designer.
Dont quote me but i believe hondas ownership are one of the most arrogant groups.
I totally agree. Honda was at it's peak for street performance and forgot what the true essence of what honda really stands for. The current image of honda isn't the same anymore after they stopped production model cars only made in Japan such as the s2000 and acura nsx. Worst move by honda.
Yeah, the S2000's are still great looking cars, they beat many new cars today. Same with the Acura NSX.
MetalsForBrunch
BMDGaming The s2000 is still an amazing looking car. That era hondas designs are timeless. Even old preludes looks nice. I was in an all honda jdm crew back in those days with my jdm acura integra. Honda could of catered to us and they could have still controlled that market but they disrespected us constantly, While subura and mitsu took over that market. And as we grew up we moved on to mercs and other brands.
Yeah, I like the S2000 but I'm more of a German car person, Audi's and BMW's.
In Canada we have snow. When it snows don't think about leaving your driveway with a RWD transmission. If there is any snow on the ground don't think about it either. Assuming the road is dry then you can drive it.
Complaining that the tires aren't grippy enough.. Haha! I know, it's his job to critique the car, but.. Those stock tires make perfect sense for several good reasons.. The lack of grip makes it easier to kick the rear end out a bit, which is what the car was made for! They are much cheaper to replace after you burn them up while having fun.. AND, Toyota/Subaru knew that if enthusiasts wanted to upgrade to big meaty, sticky tires, stockers would never have been good enough anyways!!.. So, those are exactly the right tires for the car!
Tires Cheap to replace???? Dude, have you ever shop these? They are costy as hell.
FredNitroJunk Aren't they like 60 or $70? I didn't say they were cheap, just cheaper.. And they are much cheaper than a higher performance car's tires. Corvette tires for example start at like $400 apiece!
bliglum 222$ each (canadian but still...) when i brought mine 1 year ago they were 235$ piece. I don't know if the link will work:
m.tires.canadiantire.ca/mt/tires.canadiantire.ca/en/tires/all-season-touring-tires/product/0080319P/michelin-primacy-hp/2084977/?un_jtt_jse=14a411c9087_c0a8621247f89a4b80e3fe9018e7b383&un_jtt_v_searchbyvehicle=2013_Scion_FR-S_2%20Dr%20Coupe_Base_215%252F45R17%2523REGULAR%2523Both
FredNitroJunk Shnat! Well, I wouldn't go with OEM tires then for sure.. Tires must be pretty pricy where you are too, because I can find examples of that size (215/45 R17) for as cheap as $62 each! Though, better brand, higher performance running gear is around $100-$120.
bliglum well, for about the same price (240$ or so) i have installed 255/35ZR18 (245 front) hankook ventus evo 12 on my frs. Very good tires if you ask me. Safe under any condition, sporty enough for the track, good looking tread, very satisfy. But i do agree why your opinion: they put it on that car to make it more "sporty", the get a drifting feel at low speed. The down side is that all the safety features go crazy at every corner. You quickly get use to activate the sport mode as soon as you turn on the ingnition.
The reason some people buy SIs is cause some people actually live where snow falls. Plus not everyone can afford a rear wheel drive car and another daily commuter. My friend tried commuting to work in the snow in BRZ and couldn't get out of his neighborhood. I have an 08 SI and would take a BRZ any day but this damn snow wouldn't suit it, especially in the chicagoland area where I'm from. These new SIs have pretty good torque though, I'll give them that.
BRZ/FRS FTW why would you want a front wheel drive over rated SI lmao
Razeiken What compromise? What are you gaining with the Civic?
not all of us live where there isn't snow
thats true! but I live in shitty Winnipeg lol
Vernon Price More power and Torque to the wheels and practicality.
TyranitarComedian You mean one more HP? And what practicality? They're both 2 door coupes. And while you get ONE more HP with the civic the BRZ weighs less so it's still faster. And let's not forget that you are losing RWD with the civic.
All of the power goes to the center diff in end of the trans and it sends it backward or forward depending on traction. The Evo is different because of the horizontal mounting of the engine. The split on my Wrx is 50/50 all the time. The STI can go more to the rear with 35/65 set on the DCCD. Newer Rally cars are turning into land yachts so i do understand your point but add boost and you cant tell. My car has a horrible suspension but this thing grips even in the worst situations
The si coupe doesn't look nice to me went with the sedan
good review, thx for taking the effort to equal out the cars as best you could.
try the 2013 Civic Si....or the 2014..... Hand Down
Rai ONLY 2014, coupe got redesigned
Harris Anwar nah the sedan got redesigned in 2013 when they changed up the interior with the carbon fiber looking plastic and the redesigned front and rear bumper
I live in North Jersey right now until i'm done with school. After going through so many cars i just don't consider front wheel drive cars sports cars. They are sporty but thats as far they can go in my eyes. Being able to control a cars direction with the throttle is somewhat important to me and is something my Subaru lacks until i get the funds to finish the suspension. In a front wheel drive car you are always at the mercy of the front wheels.
I love my honda s2000 and I would have to say that the BRZ is the winner. More interesting, better looking, lighter stronger and RWD. I will never drive civic si and I pray that honda will release the civic type R turbo in the near future. Honda is wasting a ton of money on their civic si production bc no one will ever pay so much for a heavy slow souless honda. Shame on you Honda.
Honda's are awesome!
***** well when ur so rich, u have a city name after u, money is the least thing u worried about lol
***** civic si does outsell the brz with its long history.. Brz out sells the civic si this year and a rwd or awd is the proper sportscar. Civics have the edge on FWD.
***** lol i meant toyota have a town name after them in japan. if u want to talk about who sell the most car, the answer is toyota with their corolla. corolla out sold any car since it was first release and is still being rated as the most sold car in the world.
honda civic has been the most sold car in north america for 16 years in a row, i guess they are doing something right, very reliable car, toyota corolla comes in 2nd
I had a Civic Si for a few years as well... I test drove the Scion FR-S... it's amazing how different it feels. Plus, the layout of the engine bay was designed with car enthusiasts in mind... The alternator is within arm's reach on top/in front of the engine, and there is space behind the engine for a bolt-on turbo if they make one. Car drives beautifully. Go drive one you won't be disappointed!
I own a 15 Si and my girlfriend has a 16 FRS and that car is much more capable for track related modifications. The Si handles decently sure, but that understeer isn't fun at all. Whereas the FRS feels so planted and grippy especially on turn in even with stock tires and suspension. My car currently has coilovers, camber arms, sway bars a rear subframe brace along with aftermarket wheels and tires. My girlfriends frs only has tires and lowering springs and she can easily pass lose me in the canyons
If you want to take a girl on a date, they'll pick the brz over the civic regardless of any knowledge on cars.. they'll still want to sit in a brz. LOL
Very true lol
MetalsForBrunch i know most women (that arent knowledgeable about cars) only care if the car is
1.) New/ newish
2.) not broken down
3.) comfortable/ clean interior
4.) sometimes the brand....ok alot of the time the brand (catches their eye if its exotic)
I had a 2013 civic SI coupe , and most the women i dated when i had it loved my car and how "aerodynamic" it looks and that it was sexy, but now that i have my 2015 Mustang GT, they fucking beg me to drive them around lol, not really, but they always comment on how nice it is walking up to it after dinner, if i got a BRZ instead of a civic a couple years ago i would have gotten more comments on how it looks outside but my god that thing is fucking gutted and god awful boring to sit in
+James supreme everyone has a mustang, what makes them want to "drive it around"?
because when your the one of the group with a well tuned and customized civic you feel good about your self
Not to mention one is gorgeous and one is, well, a sedan.
Sedan?
Sedan?
They are both coupes...
Where do you live? I'd consider one if I were in this price range & couldn't afford a 2nd car for winter. Not sure I can think of any other new, 2 door, FWD I'd really rather have. (in the US anyways)
can we leave the racing suits at home? They come off as pretentiously douchey, like i'm just making a suggestion is all. It's kind of tacky.
Sharod101 Do you watch Best Motoring?
Like the review except for the last comment about FWD for snow. A RWD can do just fine in the snow, and with snow tires I actually prefer RWD…easier to keep the car stable, imo.
I’m taking the BRZ.
loan for the BBO? I paid $1500 for mine. they are about $600 for a core on Clist. or $1500 for a GMC motorhome (66-76) and get the THM425 with it. a good 425 is $80 at the junk yard, a rebuilt unit is ~$400. its a fairly simple swap to put it in the mini, everything mentioned is insanely easy to work on. if you pay 5k for the mini, thats 18k left over to re do the mini, or have a shop do this for you
this is an example. if you want a fun DD, there are much cheaper/better ways to do it.
S2000 WOULD OUTLAST A BRZ PERIOD
Subaru STI would outlast a S2000 period
What my cousin did to ease the pain of the looks from the front, is open the headlight housing and sprayed it black thus the chrome is gone. Back taillights are still kinda ugly, but i've driven it. He had an aftermarket exhaust on and it sounds badass, very throaty not bee-like like Hondas. Interior is very nicely designed, but seats are very low. Its a fun car to drive, and it will have its following, but they should've offered VVT-i but don't know if it will work with boxer engine.
too bad a 98 type R is faster than both lol
my thoughts exactly lol
+Kellan Goins not really
+Farhan Chowdhury how .. please explain
BRZ did a 1:26.6, 1998 ITR did a 1:27.03.
.400 of a second ? easily can be found somewhere on track , and it had worn smaller tires .
And it all depends on what type of track. A high percentage of tracks are high speed ones. There are not a lot of twisty type that people race on a lot. Also they only thing limiting a new mustang is the drive shaft, speed limiter, and low eco tune. Turn those around and it is a completely different type of car
Civic Resale value..!
Low grip Primacy tires are actually expensive "summer touring" tires. A step up to UHP Summer tires does shaves seconds off lap times. Won't let you drift the car as easily at lower speeds. The BRZ was DESIGNED with ability to carry 4 track tires and tools - so Subaru never expected you to race with the stock tires.
Civic Si is more powerful, and it has a WAAAAAY more reliable engine.
honda more reliable than toyota? bro ur CRAAAAAAZY
ricardo Volta
Its a Subaru engine....
Wrong!! Its made by toyota! Get your info right! Toyota did the engine and interior and subaru the exterior FYI!! PEACE
ricardo Volta
Its a 4 cylinder Subaru boxer engine. If you open the hood on either the Frs or BRZ "Subaru" is very clearly written on top of the engine.
Do some research men pleaaaase! Google it or something
Brzs are sexy toys. Civics are what they always have been ... Civics! A nice, reliable, no nonsense, family automobile.
FYI: I own both cars. Both great cars btw.
One point Id like to point out :
The FACT that Absolutly NO ONE turns around to stare at a white stock Civic.
BRZ wins
Yeah the Si looks ugly as hell compared to the BRZ
I think your blind if you say the honda civic si looks ugly
I think your blind if the honda civic si is ugly
Saahil Siddique You're*
If you're going to insult someone, do it right geniuses. How sad is it that the Kia Koup looks better then the Si.
Shorty15c4007 than*
killerkhalsa27 Thanks =)
which car would be better for everyday driving kind of thing?
i live in the city and i don't plan to race, but both these cars are very appealing to me.
any suggestions?
True but you can't factor out that most of the guys that buy these brand new cars are paying around $300 a month along with having warranty. No one will have $25k straight up to buy either the big block Oldsmobile and Mini along with trying to get a loan out for both cars (assuming the Oldsmobile is a 60s car). Not just that but the feel of brand new compared to someone elses' ownership is a great feeling. Knowing you don't have to deal with any previous owners' problem with the car.
It also has a snow option I went for a test drive in the winter last week and all seemed good.
Whats with the full race helmet? Considering the cars your driving wouldn't a bicycle helmet work just as well?
How do you not understear like crazy in that BRZ? (I'm sitting in one right now contemplating all the FWD cars I've had that didn't understear anywhere near as bad as this RWD one.)
with the scion/subaru you can flick the car around and it just won't fight back. You can also take a tight corner much better because of the rwd vs the civic's fwd. Also, the civic feels like a tank around the corners.
19" 225/35 Dunlop Direzza perfect tire upgrade for the frs. Still drifts but handles way better than stock
I bet just buying a regular Civic and throwing on good coilovers and nice summer tires I bet it'd do better than the HFP Si
@ehcivicracer, I dont agree with you on that had a ej1 coupe with full interior, full stereo, a/c, power steering,locks,windows, sun roof so i dont think it was any lighter than a Integra gsr. I went to my local drag strip when i recently put in a '94 us spec gsr b18 bone stock still breathing out of the civic 1.5inch exhaust and 15inch street tires it was still able to put down a 14.7 1/4mile time. I bet on slicks it would also drop to low 14's, bolts ons mybe high 13's?
You guys should do a comparison of the 2013 Subaru BRZ to an 87 Civic Si next!
OK ..the understeer rules out the Civic for a balance crazy like me...and of course a car with summer tires is much faster... the downside of the BRZ is how low it is for street visibility behind other cars so could actually pass them to have fun
Damn! I forgot about the Michelin "Prius" sucky factor. Major mistake by TOyota-Subaru. What were they thinking?
Is there any FRS-BRZ owner here? What brand of tires did you replace those with?
Did you stick to 17 " wheels?
what I like about Honda is there engines they make some of the best engines in fact It was announced earlier this year that Honda would supply engines for McLaren from 2015 having been enticed back to the sport by the new but rwd is much more fun to drive than fwd good for snow
you can't kill a honda engine, honda makes the most engines in the world, engines for cars, mortorcycles, generators, snowblwers, lawnmowers ect ect....
Because FF can change from under-steer to power off over-steer in a pinch and because the typically an FF layout is 70% mass forwards when this happens its almost impossible to recover. HENCE THE POINT TO THE 86! It's stable right up to the point it looses traction and even then you can steer it out of trouble.
WOW that new Civic is making 170ft/lb of torque, thats a TON of torque from that engine! (K20 or K24?). The torque is finally matching the HP of the engine, thats incredible to me.
@Charlie Harper i beg to differ mate. i have two bmw's both rwd. my m3 sleeps thru winter, but my 328i is my winter beater...a good set of winters and traction control along with s steady right foot is all u need to beat winter driving. i've never had any problems.
When you look at it, Toyota and Subaru spent years developing the BRZ/FR-S while Honda just takes a regular Civic, upgrades suspension, stronger motor and better tires. I doubt Honda took time to perfect the Civic unlike Subaru did with the BRZ.
I do not understand why you are telling me this, I simply stated RWD has more parasitic loss in its drivetrain compared to the simplified FWD. I have no issues with either drivetrain layout.
That's still work that YOU have to do. Some ppl just want to buy brand new off the lot cars that are fun and make $300 a month payments on them. I also mentioned warranty which you should factor in. If something goes wrong, that's money out of your pocket along with time to diagnose the problem and time to fix it. With warranty, you just bring it to the dealer and have them fix it. If it takes more than a day to fix a problem, they give you a loaner car. Pretty easy for just $300 a month.
Brz is good but for long term id go with the Honda. K24 engine is bullet proof.
Since the S2000 has been out of production, a low mileage can be compared to the BRZ and Si for the used versus new argument. I love my S2K, but I'll probably pick up a BRZ for a DD after the M3 kicks the bucket. I want a balanced car.
I hate how people talk about the prius tires on the brz and frs. They were put on the cars for a reason, to have fun at low speed with minimal grip and force a driver to learn how to drive. Toyota has literally said this too.
Well in iowa we have snow to, and I know plenty of people that drive a rwd car and get around just fine. Granted it does make it does help to have fwd or 4x4
I stand corrected. Good to know the US's AWD's aren't as watered down as they were recently. As you said, they're land yachts anymore though and I can't really consider them sports cars. (you can add power & grip to pretty much anything these days) If only either company would make a 2/3d.. instead they just add size/weight/power to their 4d family boats. I got excited for Subaru/the segment, when I first heard of the BRZ. Then I realized they weren't going to have their own AWD variant. :(
Actually, most tests put the BRZ at almost exactly the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile run times as the SI, ~6.2 sec and ~15 sec. So unless you are running mods, no, no it really won't. You are going to need a Focus ST if you actually want to outrun one of these things and stay in the same price range.
Love the comparison. Keep the vids coming.
BRZ and FR-S are all looking good, but I am not sure about the built quality since these cars are fairly new to the market.
Should’ve brought a focus ST into the mix. Then again, wouldn’t be fair because of the extra power the ST has on both cars
I regularly amaze people with how well I've got around in the winter in my Miata's, but yea.. I don't care what the diehard RWD guys say, in equally skilled hands/tires etc, FWD's definitely got an edge in blustery stuff, especially when it gets deep. Push vs. pull, (as well as what you said), as well as weight distribution & whatnot mixed in.
Voice crack at 5:18 makes me laugh every time.
when did they hire MGMT to do their music?
BRZ is such a great car for the money. While it may not be fast in a straight line, it handles amazingly around corners. Plus everyone likes to powerslide :D
Not sure what they were thinking other than those economy tires helped achieve the published mileage numbers. Not bad for the price, but it'd be nice if it had more power stock. I know it's not in production anymore, but a S2000 v.s. BRZ/FRS would be entertaining :)
Its worth the price brand new but I know what you mean, wait til someone puts 50-75k miles or so on it then get it used at around 15-20k or even less. How are you going to reshape the lights? I don't understand what you're plans are.
Probably the best looking 9th gen Civic Si. They've aged better at least over time
To be serious the brz is one of those cars that makes you want buy nfs to tune it and drive it around the city. I love it
My 08 M5 cost me around 32k and my 13' Accord v6 35k but once my warranty is over on the M5. I might just sell it right away, I've barely had the M5 for couple months and it had an expensive leak already good thing the dealer covered it. That's one of the reasons i sold my old 05 745i, to expensive to maintain it without warranty.
Even with HFP suspension, that body roll....
Yes! My point exactly. My 2008 Si had 8600RPM redline! That's how a civic always should be. Low torque and super high reving. Now it's not so anymore
Tom Anderson is a Genius, putting a V6 in comparison with NA 4 cyl engines. Think before speaking.
if you ever have a chance to go to a ice skating arena, get a single person to sit down on his/her skates, then try either pulling that person from the front, then compare it to pushing the person from behind. You will realize that pulling will provide you with more traction.
These are both fantastic cars. I mean they're among the most durable vehicles and stylish.
There all badge swaps, the toyota 86 is sold in usa as well as the brz, but the frs is sold in canada
Subaru BRZ and Honda Civic should even be in the same sentence when discussing about performance. RWD vs FWD is all there is to know. Regardless how much HP kids can mod into the hood of a Civic, it can never corner like a BRZ or drift.