A lot of therapists and even psychiatrists are too proud to admit they are unable to help us and drop us in cowardly ways instead of just being honest. It makes me personally very reluctant to seek out another therapist. Based on previous failed therapy attempts, I feel like my chances of finding someone capable of understanding and helping me are low. Maybe I’ll try again one day. Thank you for encouraging mental health professionals to be more open minded and willing to learn in order to help more people effectively.
I agree. My psychiatrists didnt offer me solutions to the. Why do the voices in my head have powers to cause me to have impulses. They can also think for me while my thinking conscious shuts down and go blank. The best I could do is listen to music and they still get through. If anyone has video solution on that would be nice.
@@glowlizard We autistics worked it all out Eons ago, But we "may as well be talking to a brick wall" in trying to get the NT's to understand anything we say to them And Ironically the AT's so like the idea of fitting in, that they have difficulty hearing us as well
Thank you so much for discussing this. I'm late-diagnosed autistic and developed dissociation as a symptom of lifelong mental health issues. Dissociation is a coping mechanism for me. I'm self-conscious about it, so most people don't notice, but I'm learning to both be more open with it and not mask, and to integrate so I feel more whole.
I did not expect it but this made me cry like a toddler. I don't think I've ever heard anone talk about how just existing as an autistic person can be enough to cause trauma.
For me, I believe my trauma comes from my father. Unfortunately, a lot of autistic people are destined to be traumatised from birth because at least one of their parents also has autism and this means they're less likely to be supportive. My father is completely emotionally blunt - technically present in my life, but we barely say "hello" every day, yet we live in the same house. As my dissociative PTSD's biggest symptom is disconnection (particularly the inability to talk to and feel love) from others, I just know intuitively this comes from how I was raised. Unfortunately, even if you have one very stable parent, as I fortunately do, this doesn't seem to be enough to counter the attachment style you have with your autistic and/or unstable parent. This is especially the case when you 'collect' traumatic experiences over time, as is inevitable in life as an autistic person. Social rejection, eating disorders, being especially prone to abusers, social isolation, being fired and mistreated at work, feeling on the edge of society, constantly ruminating over past rejection/gelotophobia, unhealthy attachments with other emotionally unavailable men like my father, feeling especially distant if all your friends/loved ones are also neurodivergent and experiencing the same disconnection you are, etc. People don't help, either - even those who would pat themselves on the back for encouraging an 'inclusive' workplace actually act like you're an alien when you're nervous socially (even if this is your first time speaking in a meeting and it would be normal for an NT person). I've had people point out how I have a knee-jerk tendency to look at the floor after making eye contact momentarily, or my people-pleasing. There is a tendency to make you hyperaware of (obvious) trauma symptoms and then say "don't worry, you don't have to be like that here." Yet, we autistic people know that this means "you need to stop that in the next month or we'll fire you for being odd." Everything feels very impossible right now in every aspect of life. Thank you for sharing this video; it's greatly appreciated. I'm so glad that someone isn't afraid to make so-called 'generalisations'. When I talk about autism, I tend to get the "we're all on the spectrum somewhere" line. Making generalisations can be progressive sometimes, instead of ignoring a pattern. I've noticed that many people who seek assisted dying for psychological reasons are autistic (and women with eating disorders & SA trauma). I don't think this is coincidental. I would like to come back to this comment in e.g. 3 years, 5 years, etc. to update how I'm getting on. I hope to look back on this period as a terrible time that I survived. I'm mostly over my SA (the feelings of worthlessness and wondering 'why me'), so why do I still dissociate. It is a mystery to me. It's been 10 months of hell. I hope everyone here gets better.
SO glad you touched on this subject. My autism played a huge part into my trauma history. I feel like I became an easy target for predators because my self esteem was so low from being bullied and not having a support network. I always look forward to your content
Relate to this comment so much. And sometimes I would dissociate while knowing I was being taken advantage of but just couldn’t speak up. Like a deer in headlights.
Yes, I believe that about myself as well. Although I did have some friends growing up but I never really could fit in, even when they did make some efforts to understand me, I was a difficult person to be around, most of all because traumatic events had a huge impact on me that would often last for days.
thats what i thought, based on our own experience. Another aspect is that sensory overload/intolerance leads to dissociative reactions for some people when they cant get away from the trigger. I felt like DID was a reflexive, super complicated way of 'masking', because each part can take on an aspect of life that is challenging and be "appropriate" in that environment thank you for making this video
I just got diagnosed with autism which lead to a diagnosis of cPTSD. The fact that I didn't consciously mask was something that lead me to doubt that I was autistic, but I think it's because I likely have OSDD or DID. The way I interact with the world is always reflexive. I'm very adaptable in social situations when my sensory needs are met, but I think it's because I experience the world from many different perspectives at the same time.
we haven't been diagnosed with autism, but we've suspected it for a while, ever since we heard about situations of DID/OSDD systems who have different alters assigned to different elements of masking. which would explain why some of our alters appear ""more autistic"" than others, or have different subsets of autistic traits. this video and all these comments are super interesting since we haven't been able to find much info on this.
@@inkwellsystem1586 sometimes a less socially adept alter is trying to handle social interactions that they're not good at navigating. But I don't that I've switched and I end up making a mess of things before I realize what's going on. I have parts that filter out certain sensory input in order to focus on others to do specific tasks. I'm starting to "see" the scaffolding that holds all of my memories, skills, and talents. It's this complex visual construct that helps me navigate through my environment. It's overwhelming, but when my sensory needs are met, my system works really well and I'm a happy and well adjusted system, but unfortunately that happens rarely.
My husband has autism and we actually just assumed that autism and disassociation went hand in hand. He disassociates anytime he's overstimulated, so noise level is too high or he's super sensitive to touch. Anytime his routine is disrupted he also disassociates. He's really adapted to acting neurotypical and most people don't realize he has autism. This actually makes things more difficult for him because people have the same expectations of him as a neurotypical person. I think that's where he may have experienced trauma. We only realized he had autism about 5 years ago and he's 29 now... so his entire life he was always coming up short with jobs and school. It made him feel so inadequate as a person. I feel like he's finally starting to take control of his life because he understands himself so much better. I really hope that as a society we become more educated on autism and disassociation. I really feel like if someone had noticed he would have been able to take control back a lot sooner.
If only more of us autistics had people like you close to us. Lovely folks who are so ready, willing, and able to make the effort to be supportive and understand. I'm happy for the two of you. You must appreciate him and love him a lot, going by the way you write here. And no doubt you are very valued and appreciated and loved by him.
Thanks for this video. I am late diagnosed autistic (aged 38 at the time of diagnosis). I also have family history of abuse and survived suicide attempt at 20. My life has been hugely impacted. I am almost 50 and just recently had CPTSD diagnosis. I have been on disability benefits for last 15 years and spent 30 years in and out of mental health services. I am awaiting therapy and have very mixed feelings due to past negative experiences. I did not settle in nursery or school and was taken out of nursery. I relate a lot to havings parts of my identity feel like they're floating in out of space or barley existing. I have had 'out of body' experiences since childhood and in adult years and episodes of psychosis. I relate a lot to derealization and depersonalization and feeling out of control/possessed at times with different personality states. There definately needs to be more education and help for us. I'm so glad of videos such as these.
Also, we've realized that DID helps us a lot with autism. If an alter feels overwhelmed by some sense, the sensory processing of another alter will be different, so we can switch to stop feeling physically sick. We feel like we can stop meltdowns with that, from what we've talked with other autistic people and heard their experiences. If an alter feels like they're losing it, they switch out and can feel so much better in the inner world, meanwhile someone else who isn't struggling can deal with real life.
🥲 thank you for speaking on this, I think it is an incredibly important correlation to be looking into. I don't think I will be able to really heal until the connection between autism and dissociation is better understood.
I treated young children with trauma histories. They all had sensory processing issues. This wasn't because they were autistic. They were all displaying attachment and affect modulation problems, which affect the midbrain and thalamic sensory processing responses. We used exactly the same types of sensory-based treatments for the traumatized children that we used for the children with autism. Their responses were completely different. The autistic preschoolers did not immediately increase their communication or motor skills. They did not become significantly more interested in being touched or being socially engaged. Their responses were clearly muted, and stereotypically ASD. The traumatized children blossomed like little flowers that had been watered. Better affect regulation from neurological treatment did amazing things for them.
You are describing having looked at those disorders in isolation, which clearly would be helpful to understand the differences in treatment. Did you treat anybody with both a dissociative disorder and ASD in combination? ~ Jamie
Thanks, Cathy, the issue of getting the diagnosis right for autism within traumatic attachment experience certainly needs a lot of careful thought and consideration.
You know there's also a possibility that you guys just failed to explain the tools and processes well to the autistic people. A lot of what to neurotypicals seems like obvious instructions are way way too ambiguous for those of us on the spectrum to understand and execute effectively.
@@kevinbissinger Kevin: You are right; for the kids w/ASD, we combined communication and behavioral treatment with sensory processing protocols for preschoolers. They made more progress than with sensory treatment alone. Their issues were clearly far more than regulation of affect.
This makes so much sense. Any trauma, however minor, replays on a loop with me (which I believe is an autistic trait) and this leads to me blocking it out and suppressing it as I cannot get off the loop by myself. I don't talk to others about my loops (there are now hundreds) because it doesn't help me process it, it just makes it come alive even more and continue on its loop. Eventually the activity in my head with the looping trauma and stress causes me to lose time where I zone out anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours - shutdowns will include sleeping but generally I can find I have driven somewhere and not remember the journey or I have zoned out while cooking or working and don't realise that 30 mins have passed until someone speaks to me or I get a notification that brings me back. Often I have been stimming the whole time but don't remember any thoughts or observations. My daughter says that even when I am in normal mode (for me), if I am thinking about something, then when she speaks to me, she can have to wait up to a minute for a reply as it is like I am finishing processing my thought and her question or comment is in a waiting area in my brain and then I process it and reply once my own thinking is done. I think all of this discussion of autism and dissociation is related to the way our brains process once thing at a time and become overwhelmed by too much incoming (or too much internal looping and incoming) at the same time. I think I probably have ADHD as well which further complicates my self awareness and ability to put in coping mechanisms and leads to more mental health issues where I just cannot deal with my own brain and the outside world.
I want you to understand how much this video helped me to feel enlightened but also better about myself. As someone who is Autistic and bullied, shamed, and simply left out of things their whole life, you can feel like you don't know what you are even doing here. I have seen signs of what I believe is a Dissociative Disorder for many years now and my therapist and I are now working on a diagnosis. I believe that I was incorrectly diagnosed with BPD. You've made so much sense here and it has honestly helped me to feel a little less broken and a little more like I need to start sharing my story and my experiences so that others who could but struggling in the same ways that I am can have hope and a community to feel safe in. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing Cryptic_Fangs. I'm sharing more too. I was late diagnosed autistic and also had diagnosis of BPD which I believe is incorrect. I can relate to your comment.
I was waiting for this. Finally 🙌 I am experiencing dissoziation due to autism and PTSD. While shutdown or meltdown phases my state of mind is often going into a dissociation, because my brain can't stand the stress it's going through. The dissociation is just a coping mechanism.
I seem to be going through this as well. Weeks go past, I come out of it, then it’s like “ what the F have I been doing?” As my memory kind of resets. Do you experience this as well?
This video gave me a huge answer to the “invisibility” I experienced during childhood and few years on to high school. I recently realized it was a mask that I wore to avoid being mistreated. At home I was rejected and bullied my whole life. That mask of disconnection, physical distance, isolation, stayed with me until last year that I identified myself as an autistic 65 year old woman. It’s been Interesting, confusing and very painful. First, the persona I thought to be, it’s gone. Second, the trauma that I experienced since being very small. Only time I remember disassociating, I was 4 years old. I always wondered if my “being invisible” (not one friend until high school , no Bday invitations. No Bday parties at home. As an adult I still wondered what was missing. I now understand my being different, weird, not likable, not accepted. That’s the story of autistic people for what I know. The question is if during those years of being invisible, not seen, I was dissociating. I have no memories just a handful of flashbacks. Mostly being abused and bullied at home.
I have ADHD and always struggled with dissociative issues but therapists never recognized it as such. Inability to convey emotions applies to therapy too Neurodivergent people with comorbidities often get misdiagnosed because they might not find the correct term based on their experience. I experienced extreme derealization my whole life and I literally remember saying to my sister when I was like 7 I feel like I'm in a movie constantly instead of real life. But every single thing you said. Inability to communicate emotions, social anxiety and social confusion to an extreme degree in early childhood etc I related to all that man but due to ADHD instead of autism
I am 27 and no one understands me you speak well and I understand, I ve wasted half my life cause I cannot explain how I feel or get the get help, most docs only help if you got money and I am broke
As a late diagnosed person (at age 57) on The Spectrum I can attest to dissociation as a core feature of my autistic experience. I've seen it in other autistic people too. De-realization and de-personalization are reflexive coping mechanisms when I'm overwhelmed by interpersonal / external stimuli that are negative or traumatic. It's like my mind seperates from my body and things get very....wierd. There was a long period where this phenomena was unmoored - and manifested as "panic attacks" - but that doesn't begin to decribe the sudden bouts of terror that stalked me for decades. They nearly led me to end myself - until I underwent ketamine infusion theraphy, which ironically, involved about 45 minutes of (medically pharmacologically) induced dissociation. Dissociation itself isn't the problem, just as autism isn't the problem. It's the negative / life threatening events that are the problem and their emotional and spiritual aftermath. Autism makes me vulnerable to trauma as you so correctly observe, dissociation is a consequence of emotional shock - a psychic defence mechanism that comes at a very high cost due to it's indelible, reflexive nature. It's often said that autistic people adhere to strict routines. That this is pathological. Well, for me, they are essential to my well-being. They led a sense of predictability and control to a life that's unfolded in a social and sensory world that's largely threating and utterly incomprehensible to me. What ultimately saved me was music. Playing music. I started 7 years ago, and focused my autistic laser beam on learning to play - even though I didn't know I was autistic at the time. If you really want to know what dissociation feels like to an autistic person like me, (and I suspect Tom Yorke of Radiohead,) watch and listen to this: ua-cam.com/video/8wFnVlIdj7c/v-deo.html "How to Disappear Completely" I'm so grateful to be able to express myself through music like this now. I spent 5 years alone teaching myself how to play and sing like that. I'm 2 terrifying years into developing the courage and chops to perform in front of people. In so doing, I'm healed, and somehow, my music seems to connect with and heal others. Most imporatntly, I finally have a language whereby I'm able to connect with nuerotypical people and be seen as fully human. At last, I'm being heard. That's what everyone, autistic or not, needs most. To be heard.
I knew it! Best video ever 😊 Nice to have a perception validated and explained so well. I really struggled in therapy because they wouldn't talk about autism with me. But in DID groups online I was seeing 50-75% of people had autism so I was baffled as to why it felt like a taboo topic. Oh if possible I would love a video on sensory overload/hyperarousal and derealisation. I tend to find I get stuck in that pattern a lot and I have not found any grounding techniques that can help with that yet.
I appreciate this. I got the adhd, autism, and ocd dx as an adult and, before that, had consistently just had therapists roll their eyes at the things I struggled with and express that what I experienced was not even things that people could experience at all. Part of this was due to the way I expressed my emotions (which apparent wasn't in the way "real traumatized" people do), but I think the combination of sensory hyper/hyposensitivity and the lack of support systems really plays a huge role in the way things are experienced. There are many studies showing that having a strong support system and resources can reduce the impact of trauma, I don't know why it is so hard for people to fathom that lacking that entirely could have the reverse impact. I am not diagnosed with a dissociative disorder, but the number of my friends who have expressed concern for me having one and the nature of my own symptoms makes me confident I at least have an abnormal level of dissociation (I thought growing up I had dp/dr, but these things are very difficult dx and I wouldn't dare claim such a thing without the dx).
Many therapists have no idea how to notice the signs of possible autism, they just aren’t trained to do it as standard. Clinical psychologists in the UK have wide training and often get this experience on various placements, but sometimes it is just luck whether you get the person who knows. I see it a lot, mention it where appropriate, and get the response, “my previous therapist thought it possible, but didn’t know what to do about it, so we stopped talking about it”.
Thank you for picking up this topic. As a person who lives with both autism and DID I came to the conclusion that there is no way to get a trauma treatment in a clinic because of a) the lack of knowledge about autism in people with DID but also b) because of the day-to-day life in a clinic where everything is strongly controlled and the treatment is mostly group-based and also primed for neurotypical people. My last try for a treatment was a nightmare because of that and I am thinking since then about what would have changed that. I would like to hear/see what your experiences in the clinic are. Is the care staff educated about autism? What seems to be the key to make the treatment even accessible to autistic people? And if there is such a big group of autistic people with a dissociative disorder how can there even be proper research when every research design is created and directed by neurotypical people? Best wishes - I am sincerely anticipating this series :)
Agreed, the group-based approaches seen in many mental health services really are not always suitable for people with autism and/or trauma. They could work very well if thoughtfully handled, and I know of some groups run where this is the case and it goes well. Back to geography, whether you are within such a catchment or not.
I started wondering some times ago, why i would have “ptsd/vietnamflashbacks” of stuff i lived, that are seemingly not even intense just not cool; like bullying and being left out and stuff like that… why i would experience some responses similar to some people who’ve lived “real” trauma would have… i kinda feel like an imposter to have ptsd and fight or flight(emphasis on flight/freeze) in “intense” social interactions. Im thinking a lot back, and seeing i was ultra possessive and jealous with my few friends, like they were objects(they werent but it was kinda weird when i was really young) and how i got DX’d with a BPD, like how did i get to this point?… doing a lot of introspection and self work and all that jazz, but im starting to understand a bit where i came from, why i have freaking vietnamflashback and ptsd responses on those “insignificant” things, why today i react as i do, and that those trauma are valid since of the scaling autism does to perceptions of stuff. God knows i am glad to have a superb family that helped a lot in my development since a very young age. I cannot begin to imagine what other autistic people, that did not have that luck i have, must go through, and how they fight to deal with some… really traumatizing stuff… in a sense i am glad those mean kids put ants on my head when i was in elementary school, and those other mean girls that would just be bit-hes… like i got the less worse of life and have trauma from that i cant process how strong those others are from those things they loved through I have to keep telling myself that, even if its smaller pain, it is still pain and it is valid, and that its okay to have “ptsd(i employ the term lightly here) from what i lived since my perception of it was… hell. It really was for me, but i am lucky to not have lived worse I feel like im rambling, but hey, i thought i was getting schizophrenic since i am, most of the time, just like floating in life, like watching a movie unfold very intimately, and being disconected to the world in general, and that other people arent actually real and that its all just a dream, but my psychiatrist told me it was just dissociation and i went “ouf!! I thought i was going crazy for real when i got aware of this strange reality” When i am dissociated big times, while experiencing social troubles/troubles dealing with myself, self doubt, sabotage/ self bashing, secondguessing and all that, i can really “disconnect” and even have weird waves of strange feeling, familiar feelings from another world/life/dimensions(idk how to explain it, its like smelling something that is very familiar but you cant say what it is) Its reassuring to know its just my brain doing this to protect myself, even tho its so strange it makes you panic? But then again, what am i, what is physical stuff? Is it a dream? What IS reality? Nah just dissociation 😅😮💨 It helps a lot to know what all that was, it helps understanding, then trying to figure solutions/tricks to go back into a better mental state
We are a DID System with Autism. Our System Members have varying degrees of Autism traits and varying degrees of ability to successfully mask those traits. Thank you for this video Dr Mike 😊❤️
Also have autism and DID. All of the other people I know with DID also have autism diagnoses or very strong autism symptoms. I have long wondered if there was a link.
I just want to say thank you so much for making this video, for touching on this niche subject, because it really doesn't get enough attention, and for people like myself for whom it's relevant, it's really appreciated. I self-diagnosed with CPTSD (and then subsequently got a formal diagnosis) almost two years ago. I've been on a difficult but fairly successful healing journey ever since. Learning about structural dissociation and the three phase model while working with a somatic coach really helped me in my healing. I also did EMDR for a year, which helped quite a bit too, though did have some limitations because of my dissociation. I was never assessed for a dissociative disorder, but after watching many of your videos, I identified very strongly with OSDD, and that has helped me get a better understanding of myself and my struggles and how I need to approach healing from a slightly different angle. Also in the last month approximately I've self-diagnosed with autism. I went on a deep-dive after TikTok (of all things) suggested I was autistic. Took a bunch of self assessments and watched a number of autistic youtubers and realized it all added up. That unlocked a bunch of memories and feelings, as well as explained a number of my struggles, including why my last significant relationship failed so spectacularly. It was retraumatizing when my ex suddenly and without warning or explanation cut contact with me and accused me of "BPD behaviors" when I don't have BPD, nor do I (from my perspective) behave like I do. I was being misunderstood and misjudged again, and that triggered some pretty bad flashbacks. I worked through a lot of that through my somatic work, parts work, and EMDR, but there was still some part of it that kept triggering me. But now that I understand that I'm autistic, it starts to make sense, and I'm starting to be able to have a framework for the part of my early trauma that I haven't yet healed. I've also noticed that now that I understand that part of what traumatized me (beyond just the overt abuse and neglect), I'm having an easier time feeling safe now and being able to grieve the past, bringing about more healing. I am the type of highly intelligent, "high functioning" autistic that learned to mask in elementary school and thus flew under the radar. I made it to adulthood without ever getting diagnosed or even suspected of autism. I knew I was different, but because I knew how to read emotions and pretend to be normal, and I could fawn and dissociate to the point of self-destruction in order to "cope" with my sensory overload, I didn't think I was autistic, or even realize that I was sensitive to sensory stimuli. I would just get overwhelmed and dysregulated seemingly out of nowhere, but I had no idea why or what to do about it because I was so dissociated from my own physical experience and needs. It wasn't until I had started to undo much of the dissociation and come into contact with my body and then I saw personal accounts of what it's like to be autistic that I was able to self-identify as autistic and start understanding why certain situations were so stressful for me. And then knowing that about myself I'm able to understand better why my ex misinterpreted my behaviors, particularly my autistic meltdowns and my "insecurity" (which was just me being confused and needing clear communication about his feelings and needs; it was a reflection of mind-blindness, not of an insecure attachment to him). If I'm perceived as neurotypical and then interpreted through that lens, then my behaviors are going to look like something they're not, particularly when I'm triggered, because my EPs are "more autistic" than my ANP. That is to say, because they are younger alters, they don't have the benefit of my years of observing and learning to mask and to understand how other people think. They have a level of mind-blindness that my ANP doesn't have anymore and they can also have non-verbal periods where they can't explain what's going on internally. So when I'm triggered, I give the appearance of being self-centered and narcissistic, but it's really just an inability to self-regulate and understand other people in those moments. I have a much higher need at those times for very clear and direct communication, but because I'm overwhelmed, poorly regulated emotionally, and not communicating well, I'm less likely to get a calm and understanding response from others. When an adult that's generally perceived to be neurotypical has a meltdown reminiscent of an autistic child, it's perceived as immaturity, rather than what it actually is, which is nervous system dysregulation and a flashback to similar experiences in childhood where those needs were never addressed or responded to constructively, leaving me extra sensitive, confused, and hard to work with. People generally don't understand how nervous system dysregulation and impaired communication skills have nothing to do with intelligence, maturity, or self-control, and if you don't have the skills and knowledge of how to regulate or communicate, because no one ever understood your particular needs and taught you how to accommodate them, then you're not going to know how to take care of yourself and explain yourself to others, despite your best intentions. And that's going to end up with you blowing up around other people and being misunderstood when it gets to be too much. It was so hard to get the help I needed when trying to work with therapists and other well-meaning individuals, because no one understood me. The whole picture was so complicated precisely because people had no idea I was autistic and had a dissociative disorder, and they were just trying to treat me as if I were a neurotypical non-traumatized person with social anxiety, and it just missed the mark so badly. I would end up being gaslit and told my fears aren't real, when they actually are. If I'm afraid of being misunderstood, misjudged, rejected, and overwhelmed when "being myself" with others, that's not me just worrying over nothing, that I just need to expose myself to the situation, see that nothing goes badly, and then I'll get over the fear. No, that's not what happens. What happens is I do get overwhelmed, I do struggle, I do experience miscommunication and misattunement, and the situation retraumatizes me rather than helping me recover. When your traumatic experience is that people won't meet you where you're at, understand you and accommodate your needs, then the only way to heal that is to have people actually be able to understand you and meet your needs. But without realizing you're autistic, that's not likely to happen. Now that I know I'm autistic, though, I have a bit more hope that I'll be able to communicate better with others about my needs and be met with understanding. It's not a guarantee, and plenty of people are still very ignorant about autism, but I at least have a language and a vocabulary for describing the struggle.
I dont think i experienced anything as intense as what you did, but i relate so much to all of what you said When i started masking, quite young i must say cuz i was Dx’d with asperger when i was around 9, people wouldnt believe me when i told them i was autistic. I even have some instance of having said autistic child meltdown while being in late 20s and being at the same time aware of my behavior while having no control over it(it sounds really weird said like that) I literrally was observing my “tantrum” and being like “wow, im so immature, why am i acting like that, why does it affect me this much why am i shaking for that” … gosh it sounds bad said like that, as if i was faking it all Its just weird tho Where was i going with that? Oh! Yeah, i relate to your text👌😅(i know im being cringe here, rip)
If someone is diagnosed with autism and dissociation, with their therapist/psychiatrist wondering if DID is also a possible diagnosis. Generally how can you tell the difference between autistic masking and co-conscious alters? If someone's whole life they have acted differently around other people to try and fit in, could they end up believing that there is like another person who takes control in some situations?
My therapist believes that both autism and DID seem to be present. I am fully diagnosed with autism (which was discovered after being in therapy for a while). The psychiatrist I am seeing for further diagnosis believes that really any type of dissociative disorder couldn't be diagnosed because of no apparent trauma, especially not DID with no known cases of a distinct 'switch'. Whereas my therapist says that I could have DID, growing up autistic and with some other troubles could certainly be enough to develop DID, and the fact I haven't had any (or at least don't remember) and noticeable cases of switching shouldn't matter as much. Also seems to be a bit of a problem in the diagnostic criteria. With it apparently needing some type of known trauma and to have had some type of stereotypical events like waking up somewhere unfamiliar or finding strange items around home.
@@jaidenoliver7165 We spent a while going over the diagnostic criteria with our psychiatrist. In the end he's diagnosed us with Generalised Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder, Bipolar II, ADHD (although we already knew about that one from an early age), ASD, PTSD, and DID. The DID was a tricky one because while we knew we were separate distinct identities, we weren't sure about the amnesia - as in, there's some amnesia to the point that memories feel different and things are difficult to recall, but we don't have blackouts or find things we don't remember buying, if that makes sense. Turns out, the way the DSM words it is that if there are distinct parts but ZERO amnesia then it would be OSDD-1, but if there is distinct parts and ANY level of amnesia, then it's classified as DID, so that's why we ended up with that particular diagnosis. I'm fairly sure there can be a diagnosis of DID without knowing about specific trauma, because amnesia is an integral part of DID so many DID systems naturally wouldn't know about their trauma, and it would obviously make it impossible for therapists to know about the trauma, yet they still are able to be diagnosed. ~ Jamie
@@jaidenoliver7165 there can be trauma you don't remember, and as long as the symptoms are there it's DID. i split because my mother didn't comfort me when i cried as a baby. my life after that was fairly ok.
I am self identified autistic and did, without much hope I will get any kind of diagnosis or help. I live in a state with abysmal healthcare options, no option to move away, and I'm 49, so the chances of having anyone listen are almost nil. I don't know overall statistics, but not having access to resources is a huge reason it doesn't get reported.
Thank you, it certainly seems like the research points towards a higher proportion of people with autism being susceptible to trauma, I will be looking at this more as I go along.
I greatly appreciate this video and look forward to part 2. I’m autistic and my first memory of dpdr is from when I was around 5 y/o. It was very distressing and scary. At least I have a word for it now which makes it somewhat easier to deal with.
Oh, I just deleted another comment because I now get that you were talking about the DPDR of autistic type (that I know too well) of being on the margins and feeling like an outsider/alien (even if you get let into a "belonging" of some situation, never feeling at ease or connected or getting the sense often that not getting things right in myriad ways). Year after year in setting after setting of being confused and befuddled and perplexed and misunderstood. Having words and actions misconstrued in shocking ways. Bullied, sometimes for or with bizarre "reasons".
Your channel has been incredibly helpful. I’m autistic, and after talking through my traumas and taking tests with my therapist, we recently discovered I also have been experiencing DID and PTSD. Thanks for the videos!
My therapist did something I think is very helpful. I don’t know if she did this on instinct or because she could sense I may be on the autism spectrum. I myself have realized recently that besides having DID and ADHD (both diagnoses within the past 2 years and I’m 38) I may be on the autism spectrum too. So anyways, in between my weekly appointments for learning to live a good life with DID I am tasked to identify if there are any themes and patterns that week or expand on existing patterns. My current theme is “irresponsible adults”. Irresponsible being anything from too involved in their own struggle to recognize their children are struggling over not practicing self care to the spreading of misinformation. Different parts in my system find different versions of this triggering and until I recognized the pattern/ theme I wasn’t able to figure out they were all related to me/us feeling unsafe. Not practicing self care for example is unsafe for me and also for my children because they don’t get the mother they deserve. If I take care of myself I feel better and can be the best version of myself.
I'm so greatful to find this video, I'm having to take a crash course on dissaciation, alexthimia and PTSD. It's important for me hear that DPD happens for some with autism in everyday life not just with terrible trauma and abuse as other sites on dissociation say. For us, it's linked with living with an autoimmune disease, chronic pain that it brings alongside introception distortions.
I am autistic and people do not believe me. I do not "sound" upset when I am. I have been punished because I did not react "properly" as a child. Very controlling people have killed my confidence to be a "real" person. I talk to myself because other people are hard to relate to. I do not remember most so called family events, it was a nightmare I could not escape from.
I get what you mean. I am autistic too, and all my life it is difficult for me to find neurotypical people who would accept me for who I am. That is why I talk to myself. I have been abused for many years, so it is difficult to trust others.
Thank you for this useful video! I have suspected that there are many more autistic people who suffer from dissociation too. I have been having this theory about myself around a year now, but I still don´t really know what to think about it. When I was 21 years old a thing happened to me, it was like derealisation and depersonalisation, but in some points exactly the opposite, because suddenly everything including me changed, but I knew that this was reality, that I´m in reality and in my body for the first time in my life, the coulours were very bright, the contours of everything around were very sharp, when I looked at the mirror it was like I was looking at myself for the first time in my life from the body I was suddenly in, I remembered everything about my life but only as facts and not experience, it was like suddenly I had to live the life of a person who I knew about from the past and it was a very scary experience to find myself in a body where I have never been before (how I experienced that time), I didn´t recognize my things at home as mine, it was like I had never studied that school I was studying but suddenly I had to live the life of this person who was studying that school etc. I year ago I came to a conclusion that all my life before this experience I was derealized and depersonalized, based on a suggestion of somebody on a social site, that she had a quite similar experience after one of her DPDR episodes. Considering my autism and childhood it sounds logical and theoretically and probably it is possible, but are there actually any other people who had the experience that they were depersonalized and derealized for a long time and didn´t know about it and then they had this strange experience? I would like to solve this mystery. I cannot find anybody to answer this although I have been trying for a year now.
I cried hearing this. I am diagnosed with PTSD. To be fair, it should be CPTSD due to the length of the trauma (it was years, possibly a decade). Also autistic.
Thank you so much for this video Mike! This speaks to our system and our situation. We have believed that this was the case for us once we discovered our systemhood and autism. Looking forward to your videos! 🎶☕💡
Thank you and your team for creating such valuable resources for the DID community. Autism and dissociation is an under researched topic that deserves more attention from the scientific community. Finding appropriate quality care for DID and Autism is not easy in today's mental health system, even more difficult when they present together. Thank you for helping to shift the mental health treatment and diagnostic paradigms in today's mental health system. The information I receive from your videos allows me to understand what is happening inside my head, to advocate for myself, and enable me to direct and manage my care in an un-informed society. You are an immense help for the DID community.
You have no idea how much this video is truly appreciated! Thank you so much-for actually seeing and hearing us and taking the time to focus on these things that we experience daily, for bringing it to the forefront.
I am on the spectrum - Asperger's Syndrome. Yet, I was diagnosed with OSDD due to the way I described wearing masks. I think there is room for misdiagnosis for each, not that they could coexist. A mental health disorder diagnosis versus a spectrum disorder is traumatizing in and of itself. Yes, I was bullied, but that doesn't mean the actual split consciousness were formed, and my masking -- feeling like a different person to fit in is not a form of DID or OSDD. I found the initial diagnosis and treatment to find more trauma (EMDR) very disruptive and jarring as an Aspie. So, getting this diagnosis right is very important. Good discussion.
Thank you, Delainey - I agree, getting things right is difficult in both cases. EMDR can be very helpful, but it needs consideration in where it is used within comlex trauma.
@@thectadclinic Thank you for your reply. If I may add, I think both diagnoses are not typically diagnosed. But mental illness seems for many of those on the spectrum to be a initial or default here in the states. Whether it is BPD, OSDD, schizo-psychiatric disorders, etc. getting women on the spectrum diagnosed properly seems to be a challenge that many psychologists need more training. My former therapist had me believing I actually had parts when she said everyone has parts. For someone on the spectrum, we interpret that as literal meaning; and if not corrected can really go down a rabbit hole in therapy.
thank you so much for this video. probably the most validating clinical perspective i have ever seen, even and especially after watching a hefty few of your videos. we struggle a lot with sharing our DID even with therapists and such because we realized how much our undiagnosed autism and OCD as a child (as well as severe gender dysphoria and frequent panic attacks) were a massive part in developing our dissociation responses. that in itself with incredibly confusing and traumatic for a child, all while being pushed in the opposite direction by society and parents. i struggle with trauma therapy due to memory loss and this ongoing trauma not being a necessarily "traditional" way DID is developed. it is the most "repeated" trauma i experienced. being pushed into sensory overwhelm constantly and the negative response from parents, misunderstanding or overvaluing relationships with my peers, being taken advantage of and bullied without me knowing why, constantly dealing with this trauma without comfort or understanding from anyone, listening to lectures about my neurodivergent behaviors. it's just one trauma after another that fed into our dissociation to cope with the overwhelming circumstances, and to this day as well as being a system, we struggle with the exact depersonalization and derealization in the world that you talked about, and just feeling like the world is wrong. and sometimes, it simply is, because how the world should be is different than how the world is for us autistic folk. we appreciate this video so much. if we ever manage to talk about our DID/OSDD with our family, this will be one of the first videos we show them, to help clarify how our system could have been formed despite not having intense repeated trauma from an outsiders point of view that so many require to see us as valid. i can see us sharing this video with clinicians in the future if we ever get the chance. i'd love to hear you talk more on this subject, and one day i hope to join you in studying it. cheers mate
I think it would be helpful to have some information about the relationship between the various dissociative disorders, masking and Schizoid Personality disorder in particular. It looks to me like nobody really has done the necessary work to cleanly distinguish how ScPD isn't just a form of DID+ASD as most of the folks that can be described better as Schizotypal or Avoidant have already been diagnosed as such and there doesn't seem to be much interest in those that remain.
This makes much more sense. Thank you for explaining this in a way that helps me understand the issues I am facing, and why I am this way. I have been extremely confused as of lately, struggling with time loss, gaps in my memory and derealisation. This video has helped me heaps with my confusion, and for that, I truly thank you. :-)
I have osdd1b and feel one. Of us is a highly sensitive person with a strong bond to another who shows signs of autism. It’s a minefield but is the a link between dissociation, autism and being highly sensitive. There’s more to it but that’s the gist. Really appreciate your thoughts. Many thanks 😊
Tysm! I started crying bc of how understood I felt. We are autistic and seeking an evaluation for OSDD. I will send to my autistic twin! For the rest of the series, it may be helpful to address seeking diagnosis/new diagnosis of DID/OSDD when you have autism, and vice versa.
Thank you so much for this video ! I was looking for studies on comorbidy between autism and dissociation or dissociative disorders (which I've not found yet) when I stumbled on your video. Thank you so so much ! I can't wait for the next episodes on this subject 🙂.
i have struggled with depersonalization for a while. The lack of self and feeling like i dont have a place makes me feel so distressed. After a lot of research i am starting to realise that i am autistic
I have been diagnosed with Infantile autism at the age of 18, and went to talk with my doctor abt me dissociating later on- But he just told it was bc of me getting overwhelmed- I felt so defeated- looking at myself like, am I rly making it all up? I tried to talk more on it but got shot down so I stopped talking to doctors and even a psychologi person. That it was just wrote in my papers that I cant diffenciate fantasy from reality. I had before the diagnose of autism gotten removed from home making me distrust doctors and more bc of what if they are going to not listen to me, which I then experience there. The place even had people educated to like see if things was bad with the young peeps at the base. I had so many different people assigned to me back then to help me and my big sister, but the more they changed up who we had, the less I trusted them. bc what if they were just gonna not believe me either, that I was just making stuff up. sorry for writing this all and kinda do a long dump- its just alot to hear that it can be comorbid when I was told it was just this one thing
i really love your videos! i’ve been watching them ever since my partner started to suspect she may have DID or more likely OSDD, could you potentially do a video where you cover how loved ones of people with DID and OSDD can best support them? thanks for the great and informational videos! been a great help already :)
Oh-kay! Saw the video title and this is going to be interesting. This was extremely valuable for us to watch and very relevant to us. We'll definitely be watching the later parts of the mini-series. These are all things we've suspected, but obviously not having professional training or experience leads to questioning and self-doubt, so it's quite validating and helpful hearing strong confirmation and a lot of deep explanation from a professional perspective on all of these points. Your comments of the changes you think we need to see in a professional capacity to assist with some of these challenges I definitely agree with and appreciate and hope we'll see those eventually. ~ Jamie
I was a bit late to this video but incredible as always. I'd love to see more of this series, and if you find any other research on the topic we'd love to read it too.
Hello, since 9-10 years old I developed early depression, in form of dysthymia, that over years grew into double depression with anxiety, and later complicated by depersonalization/derealization disorder. As much as I remember, I always had what u mentioned, attachment problems, I had no friends in kindergarten, no friends in school. I never had sense of belonging, I had some behavioral blocks, like having difficulty switching from one behavior to next, I still have it, also trichotilomania during teenage years. Doctors have never considered autism spectrum disorder, I havent been examined for it. Can you tell me how aspergers can be manifested in females? And if there is a likelihood that I might have autism spectrum as well, root cause of all my mental disorders. I still have trouble in communications, its difficult for me to translate ideas into words, I feel very restless when talking, and also I feel like my personality changes with talking to different people, like I do a lot of masking, show others only the part they would like in me. I dont feel genuine, and I feel like I always hide my true self. I also dont have a strong core, peoples emotional states easily transfer to me, if someone is sad, I become burdened with sadness, someone is angry, I feel frozen to death, someone is happy then I feel calm. I feel detached from reality, not strongly grounded, as if I am always in clouds, and this has been as long as I remember myself, since childhood. I only experience world as vivid when I sleep in my dreams, my visual senses become more heightened. Can this all be explained by Autism?
I've been wondering this for a several years. I was recently diagnosed autistic after suspecting for a few years. I'm not really sure how to bring it up, and was actually discussing with a close friend my symptoms and thinking "it can't be real you can't possibly have BOTH" and then this video popped up in my feed today. I'm still not sure if I'll be able to bring it up or if I'll conveniently "forget" again at my next session...
I have ADHD my son’s diagnosing dr said most people with autism have ADHD and a long time ago some one once said dissociation could mimic ADHD I’d love a video on dissociation and ADHD too.
Hi CindyJoy, I am not sure the ADHD part of this is correct, worth looking at research evidence to see what the actual figures are. Some symptoms of complex trauma / attachment /dissociation are actually diagnosed as ADHD, that is a difficult area, one I will be looking at in upcoming videos.
Fantastic video! Very valuable, I look forward to the next parts. Would you consider adding adding properly formatted subtitles to all of your videos? I find these videos very helpful, but I am hard of hearing + have auditory processing problems, and subtitles make a world of difference for me (especially in videos where you may pull up diagrams and such and I can't lipread). Thank you :)
@@thectadclinic Yes, those are the auto-generated subtitles. I do use them, but they are often full of mistakes and poorly formatted (as it is a best guess done by a program). I meant having a person format them, so that they would be correct and more useful. Thanks for your reply :)
Hi Elijah, that is a great idea, if someone would be willing to help out and offer this, I would be great. The captions on this video seem pretty good, from what I have seen, hope they will do ok for you at least for now.
I am autistic and always had dissociative syntomps. I find this very sad and makes me angry. I also struggle to remember and to connect with my memories.
Thank you for addressing these co-occurrences. In the past four months (after a severe complex trauma in June) I have been diagnosed with DID, C-PTSD, and received a 90% probability on initial assessment for HF-ASD. It is overwhelming, but it makes my entire life make quite a bit more sense. Perhaps you could address how to begin and move forward in therapy with such co-occurring diagnoses. I found the PHP group program of very little help, because I already know all the general coping skills, but they are mostly ineffective, and the environment of the group therapy was way over stimulating for me. Moving forward with individual counseling and therapy, what type of plan/goals could be put together in terms of what to address first, second, third, etc., for individuals with these types of co-occurring diagnoses?
Many of us on the spectrum are extremely sensitive to sound. Please consider getting a decent microphone and covering large flat surfaces with sound damping material. That would improve your sound quality a lot. TIA for your consideration.
Hi I have been diagnosed with DID and unofficially dianosed with autism before that. My current psychiatrist says that trauma symptoms can match autism symptoms. And that because my trauma started so young (newborn) that there is no time period before trauma. So it would be impossible to tell the difference between DID and autism. So I would never be diagnosed with autism. Its very frusterating.
The symptoms might match but it can be helpful to think about the reason for each symptom at the most basic level. Sensory sensitivities in trauma are usually based in specific triggers, and in autism more generalisable. There are also information processing differences in autism that lead to particular difficulties with social interaction - having difficulty pulling information together to create a bigger picture. In trauma, there may be difficulty with specific scenarios, but the underlying ability may still exist. It is definitely complicated and needs input form both autism and trauma specialists, but it should be possible to diagnose both. More importanty, since there is no help for autistic adults anyway, unoffocial diagnosis may still benefit you, especially if you find solutions to problems when looking at autistic ways of being that you don't find in trauma treatment.
I have an important question. I was diagnosed with ASD level 1 last week. I’m coming to terms with the fact that I’ve been masking / mirroring / being a chameleon for much of my life to the point of where I have developed slightly different versions of myself that are able to understand a very wide range of politics and that also have conflicting needs, desires and interests. These are all very hidden and subtle. I also have been diagnosed (20 years ago) with ADHD. Where is the point where autism masking/ mirroring/ being a chameleon ends and OSDD begins? Wouldn’t these two states be very very close to one another if not the exact same? I understand DID is quite different. But OSDD and autistic masking / mirroring / being a chameleon seem to me to be very close to the exact same condition.
As an autistic system this video helps me feel understood. Related, do you know/could you explain why The Haunted Self, under “Types of ANPs and EPs” says that there are “autistic and handicapped parts”? Is this in reference to how a part could feel like they are missing a limb even if the body isn’t, is it referring to the way some alters may display a lot of symptoms of a condition that the body has (such as autism) and other alters not, is it using “autistic” to mean “acts autistic/has learning disabilities/is socially impaired,” or…? I’ve tried to look at some of the sources cited in that paragraph but I don’t have access to much.
I can’t speak directly for the authors, but I think it is meaning that some parts hold disabilities and difficulties with understanding and communicating. I will investigate further…
@@thectadclinic The wiki defines it as "Self-stimulatory behavior, also known as "stimming" and self-stimulation, is the repetition of physical movements, sounds, words, moving objects, or other repetitive behaviors." As for why it is done, an Australian parenting website, Raising Children, says "Stimming seems to help autistic children and teenagers manage emotions like anxiety, anger, fear and excitement. For example, stimming might help them to calm down because it focuses their attention on the stim or produces a calming change in their bodies. Stimming might also help children manage overwhelming sensory information. For autistic children who are oversensitive to sensory information, stimming can reduce sensory overload because it focuses their attention on just one thing. For autistic children who are undersensitive, stimming can stimulate ‘underactive’ senses."
Yes I do have a question I have borderline personality disorder bipolar to PTSD generalized anxiety disorder major depressive disorder and dissociative identity disorder and self diagnosed with autism at this time I’m also legally blind and I also have dyslexia but I was wondering in comparison to this topic that you discussed so far how much is mine actually relate to one another as far as the autism could you please add that into a video that you’ll be doing in the future I would greatly appreciate it very much also I would like to add that I failed grade school I didn’t do well in middle school and high school I only graduated with a half a point away from failing with a grade C I would love to know because I have been struggling with a lot of things throughout my life and I have mask over everything to try and fit in with and tease
can autism be misdiagnosed as chronic dissociation from birth. chronic dissociation can be caused in the womb which later can be misdiagnosed as autism. if structural dissociation happens from birth and they cant connect with others or their self it will be traumatic. nobody thinks about this what im saying but this is crucial...
Thank you for this video. QUESTION: what would your advice be to parents? My teenager, who has autism, believes she may have DID. She is working through with her psychologist (but as you note elsewhere, this is not something that can be done in one session). As parents, in the meantime, how do we handle the situation? We are unsure if she has actual alters or if they are simply different facets of her personality. She has always been good at role play and masking. So she would be the "good student" at school and the "agreeable playmate" in the playground and the "helpful daughter" at home. In fact, these different roles she has played was one of the things that led to her autism diagnosis. How do we (and her psychologist) know whether these are facets of herself (we all behave differently at work than at home, for example) or if it is DID? Either way, she clearly has complex psychological needs and I don't want her to feel as though she is not taken seriously, but on the other hand I don't want to worsen her identity confusion. She says that some of her "alters" are thousands of years old. She is very clear that she knows that this is not physically possible, and she knows that these histories are fictitious histories (alters born from a fictitious history, she says), but she is adament that these alters are now very real and do sometimes front. Also, do you have any advice for school / family. At this stage we have not mentioned potential DID to either school or family out or concern that they would not understand or be supportive (she has recently been diagnosed with a rare physical condition, which has been met with some scepticism in the family, but after a robust diagnostic process we and my daughter are confident that the diagnosis is correct). Is this something to be discussed with school or is there a risk of further trauma if they don't believe the diagnosis? Also, do you have any advice for parents if one parent "believes" that DID exists, while the other is in denial? Phew. Sorry, this is so long! You could make tons of videos from this!
That’s a lot of interesting questions, and each has many possible answers. It is a really tricky area and working through this with support would be recommended. I think, ultimately, this is about looking through the lens of the young person and trying to see things from their perspective, offering warmth, compassion, understanding and a willingness to engage openly. I wish you success in this!
If you mean, can a person have both ADHD and other difficulties, then yes, certainly. If we think that some ADHD has environmental cause, then trauma could very much be part of this presentation.
A lot of therapists and even psychiatrists are too proud to admit they are unable to help us and drop us in cowardly ways instead of just being honest. It makes me personally very reluctant to seek out another therapist. Based on previous failed therapy attempts, I feel like my chances of finding someone capable of understanding and helping me are low. Maybe I’ll try again one day. Thank you for encouraging mental health professionals to be more open minded and willing to learn in order to help more people effectively.
I agree. My psychiatrists didnt offer me solutions to the. Why do the voices in my head have powers to cause me to have impulses. They can also think for me while my thinking conscious shuts down and go blank. The best I could do is listen to music and they still get through. If anyone has video solution on that would be nice.
@@glowlizard We autistics worked it all out Eons ago, But we "may as well be talking to a brick wall" in trying to get the NT's to understand anything we say to them
And Ironically the AT's so like the idea of fitting in, that they have difficulty hearing us as well
Thank you so much for discussing this. I'm late-diagnosed autistic and developed dissociation as a symptom of lifelong mental health issues. Dissociation is a coping mechanism for me. I'm self-conscious about it, so most people don't notice, but I'm learning to both be more open with it and not mask, and to integrate so I feel more whole.
I did not expect it but this made me cry like a toddler. I don't think I've ever heard anone talk about how just existing as an autistic person can be enough to cause trauma.
I really hope this has helped you, thank you so much for posting this.
Wish I could cry like a toddler
For me, I believe my trauma comes from my father. Unfortunately, a lot of autistic people are destined to be traumatised from birth because at least one of their parents also has autism and this means they're less likely to be supportive. My father is completely emotionally blunt - technically present in my life, but we barely say "hello" every day, yet we live in the same house. As my dissociative PTSD's biggest symptom is disconnection (particularly the inability to talk to and feel love) from others, I just know intuitively this comes from how I was raised. Unfortunately, even if you have one very stable parent, as I fortunately do, this doesn't seem to be enough to counter the attachment style you have with your autistic and/or unstable parent. This is especially the case when you 'collect' traumatic experiences over time, as is inevitable in life as an autistic person. Social rejection, eating disorders, being especially prone to abusers, social isolation, being fired and mistreated at work, feeling on the edge of society, constantly ruminating over past rejection/gelotophobia, unhealthy attachments with other emotionally unavailable men like my father, feeling especially distant if all your friends/loved ones are also neurodivergent and experiencing the same disconnection you are, etc. People don't help, either - even those who would pat themselves on the back for encouraging an 'inclusive' workplace actually act like you're an alien when you're nervous socially (even if this is your first time speaking in a meeting and it would be normal for an NT person). I've had people point out how I have a knee-jerk tendency to look at the floor after making eye contact momentarily, or my people-pleasing. There is a tendency to make you hyperaware of (obvious) trauma symptoms and then say "don't worry, you don't have to be like that here." Yet, we autistic people know that this means "you need to stop that in the next month or we'll fire you for being odd."
Everything feels very impossible right now in every aspect of life. Thank you for sharing this video; it's greatly appreciated. I'm so glad that someone isn't afraid to make so-called 'generalisations'. When I talk about autism, I tend to get the "we're all on the spectrum somewhere" line. Making generalisations can be progressive sometimes, instead of ignoring a pattern. I've noticed that many people who seek assisted dying for psychological reasons are autistic (and women with eating disorders & SA trauma). I don't think this is coincidental.
I would like to come back to this comment in e.g. 3 years, 5 years, etc. to update how I'm getting on. I hope to look back on this period as a terrible time that I survived. I'm mostly over my SA (the feelings of worthlessness and wondering 'why me'), so why do I still dissociate. It is a mystery to me. It's been 10 months of hell. I hope everyone here gets better.
Thank you for sharing this.
SO glad you touched on this subject. My autism played a huge part into my trauma history. I feel like I became an easy target for predators because my self esteem was so low from being bullied and not having a support network. I always look forward to your content
Thank you, Ruby!
Same
Relate to this comment so much. And sometimes I would dissociate while knowing I was being taken advantage of but just couldn’t speak up. Like a deer in headlights.
Same here 😢 my molester was my dad tho
Yes, I believe that about myself as well. Although I did have some friends growing up but I never really could fit in, even when they did make some efforts to understand me, I was a difficult person to be around, most of all because traumatic events had a huge impact on me that would often last for days.
thats what i thought, based on our own experience. Another aspect is that sensory overload/intolerance leads to dissociative reactions for some people when they cant get away from the trigger. I felt like DID was a reflexive, super complicated way of 'masking', because each part can take on an aspect of life that is challenging and be "appropriate" in that environment
thank you for making this video
Thank you, Rowyn, you have articulated my thoughts very well!
I just got diagnosed with autism which lead to a diagnosis of cPTSD. The fact that I didn't consciously mask was something that lead me to doubt that I was autistic, but I think it's because I likely have OSDD or DID. The way I interact with the world is always reflexive. I'm very adaptable in social situations when my sensory needs are met, but I think it's because I experience the world from many different perspectives at the same time.
we haven't been diagnosed with autism, but we've suspected it for a while, ever since we heard about situations of DID/OSDD systems who have different alters assigned to different elements of masking. which would explain why some of our alters appear ""more autistic"" than others, or have different subsets of autistic traits. this video and all these comments are super interesting since we haven't been able to find much info on this.
@@inkwellsystem1586 sometimes a less socially adept alter is trying to handle social interactions that they're not good at navigating. But I don't that I've switched and I end up making a mess of things before I realize what's going on. I have parts that filter out certain sensory input in order to focus on others to do specific tasks. I'm starting to "see" the scaffolding that holds all of my memories, skills, and talents. It's this complex visual construct that helps me navigate through my environment. It's overwhelming, but when my sensory needs are met, my system works really well and I'm a happy and well adjusted system, but unfortunately that happens rarely.
I was also diagnosed DID in therapy years ago. This makes sense
My husband has autism and we actually just assumed that autism and disassociation went hand in hand. He disassociates anytime he's overstimulated, so noise level is too high or he's super sensitive to touch. Anytime his routine is disrupted he also disassociates. He's really adapted to acting neurotypical and most people don't realize he has autism. This actually makes things more difficult for him because people have the same expectations of him as a neurotypical person. I think that's where he may have experienced trauma. We only realized he had autism about 5 years ago and he's 29 now... so his entire life he was always coming up short with jobs and school. It made him feel so inadequate as a person. I feel like he's finally starting to take control of his life because he understands himself so much better. I really hope that as a society we become more educated on autism and disassociation. I really feel like if someone had noticed he would have been able to take control back a lot sooner.
If only more of us autistics had people like you close to us. Lovely folks who are so ready, willing, and able to make the effort to be supportive and understand. I'm happy for the two of you. You must appreciate him and love him a lot, going by the way you write here. And no doubt you are very valued and appreciated and loved by him.
Thanks for this video. I am late diagnosed autistic (aged 38 at the time of diagnosis). I also have family history of abuse and survived suicide attempt at 20. My life has been hugely impacted. I am almost 50 and just recently had CPTSD diagnosis. I have been on disability benefits for last 15 years and spent 30 years in and out of mental health services. I am awaiting therapy and have very mixed feelings due to past negative experiences. I did not settle in nursery or school and was taken out of nursery. I relate a lot to havings parts of my identity feel like they're floating in out of space or barley existing. I have had 'out of body' experiences since childhood and in adult years and episodes of psychosis. I relate a lot to derealization and depersonalization and feeling out of control/possessed at times with different personality states. There definately needs to be more education and help for us. I'm so glad of videos such as these.
You are so right about more education and awareness being needed.
Also, we've realized that DID helps us a lot with autism. If an alter feels overwhelmed by some sense, the sensory processing of another alter will be different, so we can switch to stop feeling physically sick. We feel like we can stop meltdowns with that, from what we've talked with other autistic people and heard their experiences. If an alter feels like they're losing it, they switch out and can feel so much better in the inner world, meanwhile someone else who isn't struggling can deal with real life.
How healthy.
🥲 thank you for speaking on this, I think it is an incredibly important correlation to be looking into. I don't think I will be able to really heal until the connection between autism and dissociation is better understood.
I treated young children with trauma histories. They all had sensory processing issues. This wasn't because they were autistic. They were all displaying attachment and affect modulation problems, which affect the midbrain and thalamic sensory processing responses. We used exactly the same types of sensory-based treatments for the traumatized children that we used for the children with autism. Their responses were completely different. The autistic preschoolers did not immediately increase their communication or motor skills. They did not become significantly more interested in being touched or being socially engaged. Their responses were clearly muted, and stereotypically ASD. The traumatized children blossomed like little flowers that had been watered. Better affect regulation from neurological treatment did amazing things for them.
You are describing having looked at those disorders in isolation, which clearly would be helpful to understand the differences in treatment. Did you treat anybody with both a dissociative disorder and ASD in combination?
~ Jamie
Thanks, Cathy, the issue of getting the diagnosis right for autism within traumatic attachment experience certainly needs a lot of careful thought and consideration.
You know there's also a possibility that you guys just failed to explain the tools and processes well to the autistic people. A lot of what to neurotypicals seems like obvious instructions are way way too ambiguous for those of us on the spectrum to understand and execute effectively.
@@kevinbissinger Kevin: You are right; for the kids w/ASD, we combined communication and behavioral treatment with sensory processing protocols for preschoolers. They made more progress than with sensory treatment alone. Their issues were clearly far more than regulation of affect.
"behavioral treatment" cringeworthy terminology Autism is not about correcting behavior and you cannot "treat" behavior. @@Cathy-xi8cb
This makes so much sense. Any trauma, however minor, replays on a loop with me (which I believe is an autistic trait) and this leads to me blocking it out and suppressing it as I cannot get off the loop by myself. I don't talk to others about my loops (there are now hundreds) because it doesn't help me process it, it just makes it come alive even more and continue on its loop. Eventually the activity in my head with the looping trauma and stress causes me to lose time where I zone out anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours - shutdowns will include sleeping but generally I can find I have driven somewhere and not remember the journey or I have zoned out while cooking or working and don't realise that 30 mins have passed until someone speaks to me or I get a notification that brings me back. Often I have been stimming the whole time but don't remember any thoughts or observations. My daughter says that even when I am in normal mode (for me), if I am thinking about something, then when she speaks to me, she can have to wait up to a minute for a reply as it is like I am finishing processing my thought and her question or comment is in a waiting area in my brain and then I process it and reply once my own thinking is done. I think all of this discussion of autism and dissociation is related to the way our brains process once thing at a time and become overwhelmed by too much incoming (or too much internal looping and incoming) at the same time. I think I probably have ADHD as well which further complicates my self awareness and ability to put in coping mechanisms and leads to more mental health issues where I just cannot deal with my own brain and the outside world.
This is so familiar!
I can relate
I want you to understand how much this video helped me to feel enlightened but also better about myself. As someone who is Autistic and bullied, shamed, and simply left out of things their whole life, you can feel like you don't know what you are even doing here. I have seen signs of what I believe is a Dissociative Disorder for many years now and my therapist and I are now working on a diagnosis. I believe that I was incorrectly diagnosed with BPD. You've made so much sense here and it has honestly helped me to feel a little less broken and a little more like I need to start sharing my story and my experiences so that others who could but struggling in the same ways that I am can have hope and a community to feel safe in. Thank you.
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing Cryptic_Fangs. I'm sharing more too. I was late diagnosed autistic and also had diagnosis of BPD which I believe is incorrect. I can relate to your comment.
I was waiting for this. Finally 🙌
I am experiencing dissoziation due to autism and PTSD. While shutdown or meltdown phases my state of mind is often going into a dissociation, because my brain can't stand the stress it's going through. The dissociation is just a coping mechanism.
Thank you, I hope it helps!
I seem to be going through this as well. Weeks go past, I come out of it, then it’s like “ what the F have I been doing?” As my memory kind of resets.
Do you experience this as well?
This video gave me a huge answer to the “invisibility” I experienced during childhood and few years on to high school. I recently realized it was a mask that I wore to avoid being mistreated. At home I was rejected and bullied my whole life. That mask of disconnection, physical distance, isolation, stayed with me until last year that I identified myself as an autistic 65 year old woman. It’s been
Interesting, confusing and very painful.
First, the persona I thought to be, it’s gone. Second, the trauma that I experienced since being very small. Only time I remember disassociating, I was 4 years old. I always wondered if my “being invisible” (not one friend until high school , no Bday invitations. No Bday parties at home. As an adult I still wondered what was missing. I now understand my being different, weird, not likable, not accepted. That’s the story of autistic people for what I know. The question is if during those years of being invisible, not seen, I was dissociating. I have no memories just a handful of flashbacks. Mostly being abused and bullied at home.
I have ADHD and always struggled with dissociative issues but therapists never recognized it as such. Inability to convey emotions applies to therapy too
Neurodivergent people with comorbidities often get misdiagnosed because they might not find the correct term based on their experience.
I experienced extreme derealization my whole life and I literally remember saying to my sister when I was like 7 I feel like I'm in a movie constantly instead of real life.
But every single thing you said.
Inability to communicate emotions, social anxiety and social confusion to an extreme degree in early childhood etc
I related to all that man but due to ADHD instead of autism
I am 27 and no one understands me you speak well and I understand, I ve wasted half my life cause I cannot explain how I feel or get the get help, most docs only help if you got money and I am broke
Incredibly validating, and helpful. Thank you
As a late diagnosed person (at age 57) on The Spectrum I can attest to dissociation as a core feature of my autistic experience. I've seen it in other autistic people too. De-realization and de-personalization are reflexive coping mechanisms when I'm overwhelmed by interpersonal / external stimuli that are negative or traumatic. It's like my mind seperates from my body and things get very....wierd. There was a long period where this phenomena was unmoored - and manifested as "panic attacks" - but that doesn't begin to decribe the sudden bouts of terror that stalked me for decades. They nearly led me to end myself - until I underwent ketamine infusion theraphy, which ironically, involved about 45 minutes of (medically pharmacologically) induced dissociation.
Dissociation itself isn't the problem, just as autism isn't the problem. It's the negative / life threatening events that are the problem and their emotional and spiritual aftermath. Autism makes me vulnerable to trauma as you so correctly observe, dissociation is a consequence of emotional shock - a psychic defence mechanism that comes at a very high cost due to it's indelible, reflexive nature.
It's often said that autistic people adhere to strict routines. That this is pathological. Well, for me, they are essential to my well-being. They led a sense of predictability and control to a life that's unfolded in a social and sensory world that's largely threating and utterly incomprehensible to me. What ultimately saved me was music. Playing music. I started 7 years ago, and focused my autistic laser beam on learning to play - even though I didn't know I was autistic at the time.
If you really want to know what dissociation feels like to an autistic person like me, (and I suspect Tom Yorke of Radiohead,) watch and listen to this: ua-cam.com/video/8wFnVlIdj7c/v-deo.html
"How to Disappear Completely"
I'm so grateful to be able to express myself through music like this now. I spent 5 years alone teaching myself how to play and sing like that. I'm 2 terrifying years into developing the courage and chops to perform in front of people. In so doing, I'm healed, and somehow, my music seems to connect with and heal others. Most imporatntly, I finally have a language whereby I'm able to connect with nuerotypical people and be seen as fully human.
At last, I'm being heard. That's what everyone, autistic or not, needs most.
To be heard.
Thanks again. Had another listen as ASD and likely some form of D …. 💙👊
THANK YOU so much! This video is everything!
You are welcome! This is quite possibly my favourite response to any of these videos, it means a lot to have your support!
Impaired in these areas during early life, but as an adult, I would say my capabilities exceed those of neurotypicals.
I knew it! Best video ever 😊 Nice to have a perception validated and explained so well. I really struggled in therapy because they wouldn't talk about autism with me. But in DID groups online I was seeing 50-75% of people had autism so I was baffled as to why it felt like a taboo topic. Oh if possible I would love a video on sensory overload/hyperarousal and derealisation. I tend to find I get stuck in that pattern a lot and I have not found any grounding techniques that can help with that yet.
Thank you, services have to be better incorporating autism into everyday work, I think.
I appreciate this. I got the adhd, autism, and ocd dx as an adult and, before that, had consistently just had therapists roll their eyes at the things I struggled with and express that what I experienced was not even things that people could experience at all. Part of this was due to the way I expressed my emotions (which apparent wasn't in the way "real traumatized" people do), but I think the combination of sensory hyper/hyposensitivity and the lack of support systems really plays a huge role in the way things are experienced. There are many studies showing that having a strong support system and resources can reduce the impact of trauma, I don't know why it is so hard for people to fathom that lacking that entirely could have the reverse impact. I am not diagnosed with a dissociative disorder, but the number of my friends who have expressed concern for me having one and the nature of my own symptoms makes me confident I at least have an abnormal level of dissociation (I thought growing up I had dp/dr, but these things are very difficult dx and I wouldn't dare claim such a thing without the dx).
i'm literally writing a peper about this right now so this is very useful!
I should bring this up in my med review
I dont understand why I was never diagnosed after talking about my life history to many therapists.
Many therapists have no idea how to notice the signs of possible autism, they just aren’t trained to do it as standard. Clinical psychologists in the UK have wide training and often get this experience on various placements, but sometimes it is just luck whether you get the person who knows. I see it a lot, mention it where appropriate, and get the response, “my previous therapist thought it possible, but didn’t know what to do about it, so we stopped talking about it”.
@@thectadclinic What should I look for in a therapist?
Not enough people talk about this, this is like a breath of fresh air.
Life saving info I can't be more grateful thankyou
Thank you for picking up this topic. As a person who lives with both autism and DID I came to the conclusion that there is no way to get a trauma treatment in a clinic because of a) the lack of knowledge about autism in people with DID but also b) because of the day-to-day life in a clinic where everything is strongly controlled and the treatment is mostly group-based and also primed for neurotypical people. My last try for a treatment was a nightmare because of that and I am thinking since then about what would have changed that. I would like to hear/see what your experiences in the clinic are. Is the care staff educated about autism? What seems to be the key to make the treatment even accessible to autistic people? And if there is such a big group of autistic people with a dissociative disorder how can there even be proper research when every research design is created and directed by neurotypical people?
Best wishes - I am sincerely anticipating this series :)
Agreed, the group-based approaches seen in many mental health services really are not always suitable for people with autism and/or trauma. They could work very well if thoughtfully handled, and I know of some groups run where this is the case and it goes well. Back to geography, whether you are within such a catchment or not.
This is wonderful!! As an autistic system wirh a very late dx, we can so realate. Can't wait for more on this topic. Thank you so much! 💜
Thank you, your support means a lot!
Amazing video
Totally agree!! On top of that, if you also have cfs/me, with fatigue also leading to dissociation... it's so complex
Great video!!!
I started wondering some times ago, why i would have “ptsd/vietnamflashbacks” of stuff i lived, that are seemingly not even intense just not cool; like bullying and being left out and stuff like that… why i would experience some responses similar to some people who’ve lived “real” trauma would have… i kinda feel like an imposter to have ptsd and fight or flight(emphasis on flight/freeze) in “intense” social interactions. Im thinking a lot back, and seeing i was ultra possessive and jealous with my few friends, like they were objects(they werent but it was kinda weird when i was really young) and how i got DX’d with a BPD, like how did i get to this point?… doing a lot of introspection and self work and all that jazz, but im starting to understand a bit where i came from, why i have freaking vietnamflashback and ptsd responses on those “insignificant” things, why today i react as i do, and that those trauma are valid since of the scaling autism does to perceptions of stuff. God knows i am glad to have a superb family that helped a lot in my development since a very young age. I cannot begin to imagine what other autistic people, that did not have that luck i have, must go through, and how they fight to deal with some… really traumatizing stuff… in a sense i am glad those mean kids put ants on my head when i was in elementary school, and those other mean girls that would just be bit-hes… like i got the less worse of life and have trauma from that i cant process how strong those others are from those things they loved through
I have to keep telling myself that, even if its smaller pain, it is still pain and it is valid, and that its okay to have “ptsd(i employ the term lightly here) from what i lived since my perception of it was… hell. It really was for me, but i am lucky to not have lived worse
I feel like im rambling, but hey, i thought i was getting schizophrenic since i am, most of the time, just like floating in life, like watching a movie unfold very intimately, and being disconected to the world in general, and that other people arent actually real and that its all just a dream, but my psychiatrist told me it was just dissociation and i went “ouf!! I thought i was going crazy for real when i got aware of this strange reality”
When i am dissociated big times, while experiencing social troubles/troubles dealing with myself, self doubt, sabotage/ self bashing, secondguessing and all that, i can really “disconnect” and even have weird waves of strange feeling, familiar feelings from another world/life/dimensions(idk how to explain it, its like smelling something that is very familiar but you cant say what it is)
Its reassuring to know its just my brain doing this to protect myself, even tho its so strange it makes you panic? But then again, what am i, what is physical stuff? Is it a dream? What IS reality?
Nah just dissociation 😅😮💨
It helps a lot to know what all that was, it helps understanding, then trying to figure solutions/tricks to go back into a better mental state
We are a DID System with Autism.
Our System Members have varying degrees of Autism traits and varying degrees of ability to successfully mask those traits.
Thank you for this video Dr Mike 😊❤️
You are welcome, it hope it helps!
Wow, coming accross this, im diagnosed D.I.D, but i have wondered whether imight have autistic leanings, but yeh, i dont know!
Also have autism and DID. All of the other people I know with DID also have autism diagnoses or very strong autism symptoms. I have long wondered if there was a link.
now the attachment trauma diagnosis from my psychiatrist makes sense. thank you for this video
You are welcome, I hope this will help you!
I just want to say thank you so much for making this video, for touching on this niche subject, because it really doesn't get enough attention, and for people like myself for whom it's relevant, it's really appreciated.
I self-diagnosed with CPTSD (and then subsequently got a formal diagnosis) almost two years ago. I've been on a difficult but fairly successful healing journey ever since. Learning about structural dissociation and the three phase model while working with a somatic coach really helped me in my healing. I also did EMDR for a year, which helped quite a bit too, though did have some limitations because of my dissociation. I was never assessed for a dissociative disorder, but after watching many of your videos, I identified very strongly with OSDD, and that has helped me get a better understanding of myself and my struggles and how I need to approach healing from a slightly different angle.
Also in the last month approximately I've self-diagnosed with autism. I went on a deep-dive after TikTok (of all things) suggested I was autistic. Took a bunch of self assessments and watched a number of autistic youtubers and realized it all added up. That unlocked a bunch of memories and feelings, as well as explained a number of my struggles, including why my last significant relationship failed so spectacularly. It was retraumatizing when my ex suddenly and without warning or explanation cut contact with me and accused me of "BPD behaviors" when I don't have BPD, nor do I (from my perspective) behave like I do. I was being misunderstood and misjudged again, and that triggered some pretty bad flashbacks. I worked through a lot of that through my somatic work, parts work, and EMDR, but there was still some part of it that kept triggering me. But now that I understand that I'm autistic, it starts to make sense, and I'm starting to be able to have a framework for the part of my early trauma that I haven't yet healed. I've also noticed that now that I understand that part of what traumatized me (beyond just the overt abuse and neglect), I'm having an easier time feeling safe now and being able to grieve the past, bringing about more healing.
I am the type of highly intelligent, "high functioning" autistic that learned to mask in elementary school and thus flew under the radar. I made it to adulthood without ever getting diagnosed or even suspected of autism. I knew I was different, but because I knew how to read emotions and pretend to be normal, and I could fawn and dissociate to the point of self-destruction in order to "cope" with my sensory overload, I didn't think I was autistic, or even realize that I was sensitive to sensory stimuli. I would just get overwhelmed and dysregulated seemingly out of nowhere, but I had no idea why or what to do about it because I was so dissociated from my own physical experience and needs. It wasn't until I had started to undo much of the dissociation and come into contact with my body and then I saw personal accounts of what it's like to be autistic that I was able to self-identify as autistic and start understanding why certain situations were so stressful for me. And then knowing that about myself I'm able to understand better why my ex misinterpreted my behaviors, particularly my autistic meltdowns and my "insecurity" (which was just me being confused and needing clear communication about his feelings and needs; it was a reflection of mind-blindness, not of an insecure attachment to him).
If I'm perceived as neurotypical and then interpreted through that lens, then my behaviors are going to look like something they're not, particularly when I'm triggered, because my EPs are "more autistic" than my ANP. That is to say, because they are younger alters, they don't have the benefit of my years of observing and learning to mask and to understand how other people think. They have a level of mind-blindness that my ANP doesn't have anymore and they can also have non-verbal periods where they can't explain what's going on internally. So when I'm triggered, I give the appearance of being self-centered and narcissistic, but it's really just an inability to self-regulate and understand other people in those moments. I have a much higher need at those times for very clear and direct communication, but because I'm overwhelmed, poorly regulated emotionally, and not communicating well, I'm less likely to get a calm and understanding response from others.
When an adult that's generally perceived to be neurotypical has a meltdown reminiscent of an autistic child, it's perceived as immaturity, rather than what it actually is, which is nervous system dysregulation and a flashback to similar experiences in childhood where those needs were never addressed or responded to constructively, leaving me extra sensitive, confused, and hard to work with. People generally don't understand how nervous system dysregulation and impaired communication skills have nothing to do with intelligence, maturity, or self-control, and if you don't have the skills and knowledge of how to regulate or communicate, because no one ever understood your particular needs and taught you how to accommodate them, then you're not going to know how to take care of yourself and explain yourself to others, despite your best intentions. And that's going to end up with you blowing up around other people and being misunderstood when it gets to be too much.
It was so hard to get the help I needed when trying to work with therapists and other well-meaning individuals, because no one understood me. The whole picture was so complicated precisely because people had no idea I was autistic and had a dissociative disorder, and they were just trying to treat me as if I were a neurotypical non-traumatized person with social anxiety, and it just missed the mark so badly. I would end up being gaslit and told my fears aren't real, when they actually are. If I'm afraid of being misunderstood, misjudged, rejected, and overwhelmed when "being myself" with others, that's not me just worrying over nothing, that I just need to expose myself to the situation, see that nothing goes badly, and then I'll get over the fear. No, that's not what happens. What happens is I do get overwhelmed, I do struggle, I do experience miscommunication and misattunement, and the situation retraumatizes me rather than helping me recover. When your traumatic experience is that people won't meet you where you're at, understand you and accommodate your needs, then the only way to heal that is to have people actually be able to understand you and meet your needs. But without realizing you're autistic, that's not likely to happen.
Now that I know I'm autistic, though, I have a bit more hope that I'll be able to communicate better with others about my needs and be met with understanding. It's not a guarantee, and plenty of people are still very ignorant about autism, but I at least have a language and a vocabulary for describing the struggle.
I dont think i experienced anything as intense as what you did, but i relate so much to all of what you said
When i started masking, quite young i must say cuz i was Dx’d with asperger when i was around 9, people wouldnt believe me when i told them i was autistic. I even have some instance of having said autistic child meltdown while being in late 20s and being at the same time aware of my behavior while having no control over it(it sounds really weird said like that)
I literrally was observing my “tantrum” and being like “wow, im so immature, why am i acting like that, why does it affect me this much why am i shaking for that”
… gosh it sounds bad said like that, as if i was faking it all
Its just weird tho
Where was i going with that? Oh! Yeah, i relate to your text👌😅(i know im being cringe here, rip)
Great series, thank you!
If someone is diagnosed with autism and dissociation, with their therapist/psychiatrist wondering if DID is also a possible diagnosis. Generally how can you tell the difference between autistic masking and co-conscious alters? If someone's whole life they have acted differently around other people to try and fit in, could they end up believing that there is like another person who takes control in some situations?
My therapist believes that both autism and DID seem to be present. I am fully diagnosed with autism (which was discovered after being in therapy for a while). The psychiatrist I am seeing for further diagnosis believes that really any type of dissociative disorder couldn't be diagnosed because of no apparent trauma, especially not DID with no known cases of a distinct 'switch'. Whereas my therapist says that I could have DID, growing up autistic and with some other troubles could certainly be enough to develop DID, and the fact I haven't had any (or at least don't remember) and noticeable cases of switching shouldn't matter as much.
Also seems to be a bit of a problem in the diagnostic criteria. With it apparently needing some type of known trauma and to have had some type of stereotypical events like waking up somewhere unfamiliar or finding strange items around home.
@@jaidenoliver7165 We spent a while going over the diagnostic criteria with our psychiatrist. In the end he's diagnosed us with Generalised Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder, Bipolar II, ADHD (although we already knew about that one from an early age), ASD, PTSD, and DID. The DID was a tricky one because while we knew we were separate distinct identities, we weren't sure about the amnesia - as in, there's some amnesia to the point that memories feel different and things are difficult to recall, but we don't have blackouts or find things we don't remember buying, if that makes sense. Turns out, the way the DSM words it is that if there are distinct parts but ZERO amnesia then it would be OSDD-1, but if there is distinct parts and ANY level of amnesia, then it's classified as DID, so that's why we ended up with that particular diagnosis.
I'm fairly sure there can be a diagnosis of DID without knowing about specific trauma, because amnesia is an integral part of DID so many DID systems naturally wouldn't know about their trauma, and it would obviously make it impossible for therapists to know about the trauma, yet they still are able to be diagnosed.
~ Jamie
@@jaidenoliver7165 there can be trauma you don't remember, and as long as the symptoms are there it's DID.
i split because my mother didn't comfort me when i cried as a baby. my life after that was fairly ok.
I am self identified autistic and did, without much hope I will get any kind of diagnosis or help. I live in a state with abysmal healthcare options, no option to move away, and I'm 49, so the chances of having anyone listen are almost nil. I don't know overall statistics, but not having access to resources is a huge reason it doesn't get reported.
Thank you for this. Someone I love has autism and I've long felt that they have complex PTSD because of it.
Thank you, it certainly seems like the research points towards a higher proportion of people with autism being susceptible to trauma, I will be looking at this more as I go along.
I greatly appreciate this video and look forward to part 2.
I’m autistic and my first memory of dpdr is from when I was around 5 y/o. It was very distressing and scary. At least I have a word for it now which makes it somewhat easier to deal with.
Oh, I just deleted another comment because I now get that you were talking about the DPDR of autistic type (that I know too well) of being on the margins and feeling like an outsider/alien (even if you get let into a "belonging" of some situation, never feeling at ease or connected or getting the sense often that not getting things right in myriad ways). Year after year in setting after setting of being confused and befuddled and perplexed and misunderstood. Having words and actions misconstrued in shocking ways. Bullied, sometimes for or with bizarre "reasons".
Your channel has been incredibly helpful. I’m autistic, and after talking through my traumas and taking tests with my therapist, we recently discovered I also have been experiencing DID and PTSD. Thanks for the videos!
My therapist did something I think is very helpful. I don’t know if she did this on instinct or because she could sense I may be on the autism spectrum. I myself have realized recently that besides having DID and ADHD (both diagnoses within the past 2 years and I’m 38) I may be on the autism spectrum too. So anyways, in between my weekly appointments for learning to live a good life with DID I am tasked to identify if there are any themes and patterns that week or expand on existing patterns. My current theme is “irresponsible adults”. Irresponsible being anything from too involved in their own struggle to recognize their children are struggling over not practicing self care to the spreading of misinformation. Different parts in my system find different versions of this triggering and until I recognized the pattern/ theme I wasn’t able to figure out they were all related to me/us feeling unsafe. Not practicing self care for example is unsafe for me and also for my children because they don’t get the mother they deserve. If I take care of myself I feel better and can be the best version of myself.
❤instrumental ❤️🩹 healing Sir.
I'm so greatful to find this video, I'm having to take a crash course on dissaciation, alexthimia and PTSD. It's important for me hear that DPD happens for some with autism in everyday life not just with terrible trauma and abuse as other sites on dissociation say. For us, it's linked with living with an autoimmune disease, chronic pain that it brings alongside introception distortions.
I am autistic and people do not believe me. I do not "sound" upset when I am. I have been punished because I did not react "properly" as a child. Very controlling people have killed my confidence to be a "real" person. I talk to myself because other people are hard to relate to. I do not remember most so called family events, it was a nightmare I could not escape from.
I get what you mean. I am autistic too, and all my life it is difficult for me to find neurotypical people who would accept me for who I am. That is why I talk to myself. I have been abused for many years, so it is difficult to trust others.
Thank you for this useful video! I have suspected that there are many more autistic people who suffer from dissociation too. I have been having this theory about myself around a year now, but I still don´t really know what to think about it. When I was 21 years old a thing happened to me, it was like derealisation and depersonalisation, but in some points exactly the opposite, because suddenly everything including me changed, but I knew that this was reality, that I´m in reality and in my body for the first time in my life, the coulours were very bright, the contours of everything around were very sharp, when I looked at the mirror it was like I was looking at myself for the first time in my life from the body I was suddenly in, I remembered everything about my life but only as facts and not experience, it was like suddenly I had to live the life of a person who I knew about from the past and it was a very scary experience to find myself in a body where I have never been before (how I experienced that time), I didn´t recognize my things at home as mine, it was like I had never studied that school I was studying but suddenly I had to live the life of this person who was studying that school etc. I year ago I came to a conclusion that all my life before this experience I was derealized and depersonalized, based on a suggestion of somebody on a social site, that she had a quite similar experience after one of her DPDR episodes. Considering my autism and childhood it sounds logical and theoretically and probably it is possible, but are there actually any other people who had the experience that they were depersonalized and derealized for a long time and didn´t know about it and then they had this strange experience? I would like to solve this mystery. I cannot find anybody to answer this although I have been trying for a year now.
I cried hearing this.
I am diagnosed with PTSD. To be fair, it should be CPTSD due to the length of the trauma (it was years, possibly a decade). Also autistic.
My exact experience! Just waiting on formal diagnosis for autism & ADD.
Thank you so much for this video Mike! This speaks to our system and our situation. We have believed that this was the case for us once we discovered our systemhood and autism. Looking forward to your videos! 🎶☕💡
Thank you and your team for creating such valuable resources for the DID community. Autism and dissociation is an under researched topic that deserves more attention from the scientific community. Finding appropriate quality care for DID and Autism is not easy in today's mental health system, even more difficult when they present together. Thank you for helping to shift the mental health treatment and diagnostic paradigms in today's mental health system. The information I receive from your videos allows me to understand what is happening inside my head, to advocate for myself, and enable me to direct and manage my care in an un-informed society. You are an immense help for the DID community.
Thank you so much! It is really kind of you to take the time writing your thoughts on the videos, and I am extremely pleased they are helpful for you.
You have no idea how much this video is truly appreciated! Thank you so much-for actually seeing and hearing us and taking the time to focus on these things that we experience daily, for bringing it to the forefront.
H Parker, you are most welcome, so many people were asking about this, it seemed right to begin looking at it properly. Thank you for your positivity!
I am on the spectrum - Asperger's Syndrome. Yet, I was diagnosed with OSDD due to the way I described wearing masks. I think there is room for misdiagnosis for each, not that they could coexist. A mental health disorder diagnosis versus a spectrum disorder is traumatizing in and of itself. Yes, I was bullied, but that doesn't mean the actual split consciousness were formed, and my masking -- feeling like a different person to fit in is not a form of DID or OSDD. I found the initial diagnosis and treatment to find more trauma (EMDR) very disruptive and jarring as an Aspie. So, getting this diagnosis right is very important. Good discussion.
Thank you, Delainey - I agree, getting things right is difficult in both cases. EMDR can be very helpful, but it needs consideration in where it is used within comlex trauma.
@@thectadclinic Thank you for your reply. If I may add, I think both diagnoses are not typically diagnosed. But mental illness seems for many of those on the spectrum to be a initial or default here in the states. Whether it is BPD, OSDD, schizo-psychiatric disorders, etc. getting women on the spectrum diagnosed properly seems to be a challenge that many psychologists need more training. My former therapist had me believing I actually had parts when she said everyone has parts. For someone on the spectrum, we interpret that as literal meaning; and if not corrected can really go down a rabbit hole in therapy.
thank you so much for this video. probably the most validating clinical perspective i have ever seen, even and especially after watching a hefty few of your videos. we struggle a lot with sharing our DID even with therapists and such because we realized how much our undiagnosed autism and OCD as a child (as well as severe gender dysphoria and frequent panic attacks) were a massive part in developing our dissociation responses. that in itself with incredibly confusing and traumatic for a child, all while being pushed in the opposite direction by society and parents. i struggle with trauma therapy due to memory loss and this ongoing trauma not being a necessarily "traditional" way DID is developed. it is the most "repeated" trauma i experienced. being pushed into sensory overwhelm constantly and the negative response from parents, misunderstanding or overvaluing relationships with my peers, being taken advantage of and bullied without me knowing why, constantly dealing with this trauma without comfort or understanding from anyone, listening to lectures about my neurodivergent behaviors. it's just one trauma after another that fed into our dissociation to cope with the overwhelming circumstances, and to this day as well as being a system, we struggle with the exact depersonalization and derealization in the world that you talked about, and just feeling like the world is wrong. and sometimes, it simply is, because how the world should be is different than how the world is for us autistic folk.
we appreciate this video so much. if we ever manage to talk about our DID/OSDD with our family, this will be one of the first videos we show them, to help clarify how our system could have been formed despite not having intense repeated trauma from an outsiders point of view that so many require to see us as valid. i can see us sharing this video with clinicians in the future if we ever get the chance. i'd love to hear you talk more on this subject, and one day i hope to join you in studying it. cheers mate
I think it would be helpful to have some information about the relationship between the various dissociative disorders, masking and Schizoid Personality disorder in particular. It looks to me like nobody really has done the necessary work to cleanly distinguish how ScPD isn't just a form of DID+ASD as most of the folks that can be described better as Schizotypal or Avoidant have already been diagnosed as such and there doesn't seem to be much interest in those that remain.
This makes much more sense. Thank you for explaining this in a way that helps me understand the issues I am facing, and why I am this way. I have been extremely confused as of lately, struggling with time loss, gaps in my memory and derealisation. This video has helped me heaps with my confusion, and for that, I truly thank you. :-)
I have osdd1b and feel one. Of us is a highly sensitive person with a strong bond to another who shows signs of autism. It’s a minefield but is the a link between dissociation, autism and being highly sensitive. There’s more to it but that’s the gist. Really appreciate your thoughts. Many thanks 😊
Thank you 🙏 I am so glad that you’re going to do more on this subject! I’ve been in shutdown for several months now. Thanks
You are welcome!
Thank you! We don't say it often enough, but we really appreciate all the information you share and your work.
That is so kind, thank you!
Tysm! I started crying bc of how understood I felt. We are autistic and seeking an evaluation for OSDD. I will send to my autistic twin!
For the rest of the series, it may be helpful to address seeking diagnosis/new diagnosis of DID/OSDD when you have autism, and vice versa.
Great idea, thank you. We have a very interesting video in the planning stage as the next part, and will keep this in mind!
@@thectadclinic Can't wait to see it!
Thank you so much for this video !
I was looking for studies on comorbidy between autism and dissociation or dissociative disorders (which I've not found yet) when I stumbled on your video.
Thank you so so much ! I can't wait for the next episodes on this subject 🙂.
i have struggled with depersonalization for a while. The lack of self and feeling like i dont have a place makes me feel so distressed. After a lot of research i am starting to realise that i am autistic
Really interesting video, thank you!
You’re welcome. Thank you for watching!
I have been diagnosed with Infantile autism at the age of 18, and went to talk with my doctor abt me dissociating later on- But he just told it was bc of me getting overwhelmed- I felt so defeated- looking at myself like, am I rly making it all up?
I tried to talk more on it but got shot down so I stopped talking to doctors and even a psychologi person.
That it was just wrote in my papers that I cant diffenciate fantasy from reality.
I had before the diagnose of autism gotten removed from home making me distrust doctors and more bc of what if they are going to not listen to me, which I then experience there. The place even had people educated to like see if things was bad with the young peeps at the base.
I had so many different people assigned to me back then to help me and my big sister, but the more they changed up who we had, the less I trusted them. bc what if they were just gonna not believe me either, that I was just making stuff up.
sorry for writing this all and kinda do a long dump-
its just alot to hear that it can be comorbid when I was told it was just this one thing
i really love your videos! i’ve been watching them ever since my partner started to suspect she may have DID or more likely OSDD, could you potentially do a video where you cover how loved ones of people with DID and OSDD can best support them? thanks for the great and informational videos! been a great help already :)
Ive got aspergers and currently going through maybe having D.I.D, so this is helpful.
I truly hope it is helpful for you!
Thank you so much…
Oh-kay! Saw the video title and this is going to be interesting.
This was extremely valuable for us to watch and very relevant to us. We'll definitely be watching the later parts of the mini-series. These are all things we've suspected, but obviously not having professional training or experience leads to questioning and self-doubt, so it's quite validating and helpful hearing strong confirmation and a lot of deep explanation from a professional perspective on all of these points.
Your comments of the changes you think we need to see in a professional capacity to assist with some of these challenges I definitely agree with and appreciate and hope we'll see those eventually.
~ Jamie
Thank you, Jamie, really.
Thank you!💜
You are welcome!
I was a bit late to this video but incredible as always. I'd love to see more of this series, and if you find any other research on the topic we'd love to read it too.
Hello, since 9-10 years old I developed early depression, in form of dysthymia, that over years grew into double depression with anxiety, and later complicated by depersonalization/derealization disorder. As much as I remember, I always had what u mentioned, attachment problems, I had no friends in kindergarten, no friends in school. I never had sense of belonging, I had some behavioral blocks, like having difficulty switching from one behavior to next, I still have it, also trichotilomania during teenage years. Doctors have never considered autism spectrum disorder, I havent been examined for it. Can you tell me how aspergers can be manifested in females? And if there is a likelihood that I might have autism spectrum as well, root cause of all my mental disorders. I still have trouble in communications, its difficult for me to translate ideas into words, I feel very restless when talking, and also I feel like my personality changes with talking to different people, like I do a lot of masking, show others only the part they would like in me. I dont feel genuine, and I feel like I always hide my true self. I also dont have a strong core, peoples emotional states easily transfer to me, if someone is sad, I become burdened with sadness, someone is angry, I feel frozen to death, someone is happy then I feel calm. I feel detached from reality, not strongly grounded, as if I am always in clouds, and this has been as long as I remember myself, since childhood. I only experience world as vivid when I sleep in my dreams, my visual senses become more heightened. Can this all be explained by Autism?
Thank you so much for making this video! I've been wondering this for awhlie
I've been wondering this for a several years. I was recently diagnosed autistic after suspecting for a few years. I'm not really sure how to bring it up, and was actually discussing with a close friend my symptoms and thinking "it can't be real you can't possibly have BOTH" and then this video popped up in my feed today. I'm still not sure if I'll be able to bring it up or if I'll conveniently "forget" again at my next session...
Sounds like the timing of the video could be helpful for you, I certainly hope so.
@@thectadclinic I've noticed some wonderful and phenomenal timing over the years with information arriving.
I have ADHD my son’s diagnosing dr said most people with autism have ADHD and a long time ago some one once said dissociation could mimic ADHD I’d love a video on dissociation and ADHD too.
Hi CindyJoy, I am not sure the ADHD part of this is correct, worth looking at research evidence to see what the actual figures are. Some symptoms of complex trauma / attachment /dissociation are actually diagnosed as ADHD, that is a difficult area, one I will be looking at in upcoming videos.
Fantastic video! Very valuable, I look forward to the next parts.
Would you consider adding adding properly formatted subtitles to all of your videos? I find these videos very helpful, but I am hard of hearing + have auditory processing problems, and subtitles make a world of difference for me (especially in videos where you may pull up diagrams and such and I can't lipread).
Thank you :)
Hi Elijah, I believe there are subtitles attached to all these videos, via the 'CC' box in the picture.
@@thectadclinic Yes, those are the auto-generated subtitles. I do use them, but they are often full of mistakes and poorly formatted (as it is a best guess done by a program). I meant having a person format them, so that they would be correct and more useful.
Thanks for your reply :)
Hi Elijah, that is a great idea, if someone would be willing to help out and offer this, I would be great. The captions on this video seem pretty good, from what I have seen, hope they will do ok for you at least for now.
Appreciate this. Thank you.
You are welcome!
I am autistic and always had dissociative syntomps. I find this very sad and makes me angry. I also struggle to remember and to connect with my memories.
Thank you for addressing these co-occurrences. In the past four months (after a severe complex trauma in June) I have been diagnosed with DID, C-PTSD, and received a 90% probability on initial assessment for HF-ASD. It is overwhelming, but it makes my entire life make quite a bit more sense.
Perhaps you could address how to begin and move forward in therapy with such co-occurring diagnoses. I found the PHP group program of very little help, because I already know all the general coping skills, but they are mostly ineffective, and the environment of the group therapy was way over stimulating for me. Moving forward with individual counseling and therapy, what type of plan/goals could be put together in terms of what to address first, second, third, etc., for individuals with these types of co-occurring diagnoses?
Many of us on the spectrum are extremely sensitive to sound. Please consider getting a decent microphone and covering large flat surfaces with sound damping material. That would improve your sound quality a lot. TIA for your consideration.
People with autism are also taken advantage of more often. And bullied, excluded, mocked, and abused more often. 😢
Interesting…Depersonalization and autism in early childhood look very similar.
Very interesting 🌸! How do I find the part 2 video?
It's the interview video, Ulrika. Glad you liked this one!
Please for the love of god link part 1 from the part 2 video because it's not easy to find which one is the right video
@@gangstaboy9387 done!
This was a nice introduction, but I can't seem to find a part 2 which is disappointing
Hi I have been diagnosed with DID and unofficially dianosed with autism before that. My current psychiatrist says that trauma symptoms can match autism symptoms. And that because my trauma started so young (newborn) that there is no time period before trauma. So it would be impossible to tell the difference between DID and autism. So I would never be diagnosed with autism. Its very frusterating.
The symptoms might match but it can be helpful to think about the reason for each symptom at the most basic level. Sensory sensitivities in trauma are usually based in specific triggers, and in autism more generalisable. There are also information processing differences in autism that lead to particular difficulties with social interaction - having difficulty pulling information together to create a bigger picture. In trauma, there may be difficulty with specific scenarios, but the underlying ability may still exist. It is definitely complicated and needs input form both autism and trauma specialists, but it should be possible to diagnose both. More importanty, since there is no help for autistic adults anyway, unoffocial diagnosis may still benefit you, especially if you find solutions to problems when looking at autistic ways of being that you don't find in trauma treatment.
I have an important question. I was diagnosed with ASD level 1 last week. I’m coming to terms with the fact that I’ve been masking / mirroring / being a chameleon for much of my life to the point of where I have developed slightly different versions of myself that are able to understand a very wide range of politics and that also have conflicting needs, desires and interests. These are all very hidden and subtle. I also have been diagnosed (20 years ago) with ADHD.
Where is the point where autism masking/ mirroring/ being a chameleon ends and OSDD begins? Wouldn’t these two states be very very close to one another if not the exact same? I understand DID is quite different. But OSDD and autistic masking / mirroring / being a chameleon seem to me to be very close to the exact same condition.
Hi Geoffrey, they wouldn't be classified as being the same condition, but there are distinct similarities in symptomology and experience of such.
As an autistic system this video helps me feel understood. Related, do you know/could you explain why The Haunted Self, under “Types of ANPs and EPs” says that there are “autistic and handicapped parts”? Is this in reference to how a part could feel like they are missing a limb even if the body isn’t, is it referring to the way some alters may display a lot of symptoms of a condition that the body has (such as autism) and other alters not, is it using “autistic” to mean “acts autistic/has learning disabilities/is socially impaired,” or…? I’ve tried to look at some of the sources cited in that paragraph but I don’t have access to much.
I can’t speak directly for the authors, but I think it is meaning that some parts hold disabilities and difficulties with understanding and communicating. I will investigate further…
@@thectadclinic Thank you so much for your reply, I appreciate it and your further investigation a lot
Is there a link to stimming? When you distract yourself with or focus on a sensation in stimming, is that similar or too distinct from disassociation?
Hi, what do you mean by 'stimming'?
@@thectadclinic The wiki defines it as "Self-stimulatory behavior, also known as "stimming" and self-stimulation, is the repetition of physical movements, sounds, words, moving objects, or other repetitive behaviors."
As for why it is done, an Australian parenting website, Raising Children, says "Stimming seems to help autistic children and teenagers manage emotions like anxiety, anger, fear and excitement. For example, stimming might help them to calm down because it focuses their attention on the stim or produces a calming change in their bodies.
Stimming might also help children manage overwhelming sensory information. For autistic children who are oversensitive to sensory information, stimming can reduce sensory overload because it focuses their attention on just one thing. For autistic children who are undersensitive, stimming can stimulate ‘underactive’ senses."
thank you!
Yes I do have a question I have borderline personality disorder bipolar to PTSD generalized anxiety disorder major depressive disorder and dissociative identity disorder and self diagnosed with autism at this time I’m also legally blind and I also have dyslexia but I was wondering in comparison to this topic that you discussed so far how much is mine actually relate to one another as far as the autism could you please add that into a video that you’ll be doing in the future I would greatly appreciate it very much also I would like to add that I failed grade school I didn’t do well in middle school and high school I only graduated with a half a point away from failing with a grade C I would love to know because I have been struggling with a lot of things throughout my life and I have mask over everything to try and fit in with and tease
can autism be misdiagnosed as chronic dissociation from birth. chronic dissociation can be caused in the womb which later can be misdiagnosed as autism. if structural dissociation happens from birth and they cant connect with others or their self it will be traumatic. nobody thinks about this what im saying but this is crucial...
Can you tell more about how you can see Autism at people who have DID? What are the signs/symptoms you see?
Thank you for this video. QUESTION: what would your advice be to parents? My teenager, who has autism, believes she may have DID. She is working through with her psychologist (but as you note elsewhere, this is not something that can be done in one session). As parents, in the meantime, how do we handle the situation? We are unsure if she has actual alters or if they are simply different facets of her personality. She has always been good at role play and masking. So she would be the "good student" at school and the "agreeable playmate" in the playground and the "helpful daughter" at home. In fact, these different roles she has played was one of the things that led to her autism diagnosis. How do we (and her psychologist) know whether these are facets of herself (we all behave differently at work than at home, for example) or if it is DID? Either way, she clearly has complex psychological needs and I don't want her to feel as though she is not taken seriously, but on the other hand I don't want to worsen her identity confusion. She says that some of her "alters" are thousands of years old. She is very clear that she knows that this is not physically possible, and she knows that these histories are fictitious histories (alters born from a fictitious history, she says), but she is adament that these alters are now very real and do sometimes front. Also, do you have any advice for school / family. At this stage we have not mentioned potential DID to either school or family out or concern that they would not understand or be supportive (she has recently been diagnosed with a rare physical condition, which has been met with some scepticism in the family, but after a robust diagnostic process we and my daughter are confident that the diagnosis is correct). Is this something to be discussed with school or is there a risk of further trauma if they don't believe the diagnosis? Also, do you have any advice for parents if one parent "believes" that DID exists, while the other is in denial? Phew. Sorry, this is so long! You could make tons of videos from this!
That’s a lot of interesting questions, and each has many possible answers. It is a really tricky area and working through this with support would be recommended. I think, ultimately, this is about looking through the lens of the young person and trying to see things from their perspective, offering warmth, compassion, understanding and a willingness to engage openly. I wish you success in this!
we prefer to say "autistic people" rather than "people with autism" :-]
I dont "have" autism but I am autistic, what do you think about it?
Can the same or similar thing apply to ADHD?
If you mean, can a person have both ADHD and other difficulties, then yes, certainly. If we think that some ADHD has environmental cause, then trauma could very much be part of this presentation.
I have one particular alternate personality that ' holds' my most autistic traits - have you come across this in others?
This can happen, though whether it would be classed as being 'diagnoseable' may not yet be fully understood.