Overcoming Avoidance within Trauma and Dissociation
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- This is a 'part two video', with Dr Mike Lloyd (CTAD Clinic Director) discussing ways of overcoming avoidance for people with trauma histories, including those with dissociation. In 'part one', Mike talked about why avoidance is such a big part of trauma and why it needs to be addressed. In this video, Mike goes through the key elements of working through avoidance, and what is needed for it to be as successful as possible, leading people to arrive at their potential of moving forward.
As with all such videos, the advice within the video is best utilised when working within a therapeutic setting.
#trauma #complextrauma #dissociation #dissociativeidentitydisorder #reflectionsfromtherapy
"They can't celebrate" This is something I'm exploring through therapy, didnt realise how deep it went until I went into therapy.
Thankyou for putting these videos out. They help so much
Same here, I finally get it.
I wish this video had included more about avoidance when you have DID. I will automatically switch as an unconscious avoidance strategy. Another part will speak or act to address my anxiety but they make poor choices. Since the switch is unplanned, uncontrolled, and leaves me with the results of what parts have done, this isn't a great way to deal with things. I am frequently co-conscious enough to often see and hear what is happening, but absolutely unable to "jump in" or even internally communicate with the part that is out. They think they are helping, but they often make my adult life much harder by their actions. Sometimes they run, sometimes they fight, sometimes they freeze in terror. I can remember this as far back as when I was 9.
Hi Cathy, hoping you've found some answers..that unconscious fast switch and you can't talk, assist or stop sounds like, a internal communication issue.
And losing the front seat and steering wheel is scary. Especially to parts that are not on board with community goals.
I am still very new to all of this but so far I have found that if my parts hijack control there is a reason even if I don't have access to the reason.
What I heard from Dr.Mike was avoidance has a purpose
And sometimes we aren't ready for access
Sometimes we have a lot of detective work to do..
And we are only ready when we are ready..frustrating as that is
I have had a ton of issues so I had mostly tried to concentrate on the big ones. But I haven't been able to go into the spare bedroom of my house since I moved here 7 years ago I dropped moving boxes on the floor and that was it..and that is when the secrets started unraveling, recently I guess I was ready as I had finally started addressing my disassociation. And a notebook appeared in that room with writing from 6 years ago, that is parts writing, I've started cleaning and being able to go into that room and found multiple notebooks now, I haven't read them because they are journals , the point being the dumb ridiculous appearing avoidance of half of my house had a important reason.
Your avoidance has a good reason.
I've started trying to laugh to diffuse the tension these..unexpected interruptions cause, ..I've started calling them my presidential protection secret service team..because they just knock me off stage and bundle me up in a black closet for seemingly no reason for typically 48 hours.
I am finding that interrogation and disapproval got me no where..but laughter with a bit of seriously folks we HAVE to shut the chickens shed up at night..or communicate, that we all need to be on the same page about drinking. Somethings will be easy...making certain everyone knows about the chickens some like drinking are about the terrible memories and not that easy to get that part on board with.
That's where having a good therapist to be curious with you and for you to help engage the disruptions when WE are just angry about the disruption is the resource we all need..
I really like kinhost.org bootcamp manual
@@suejorgensen46 thank you for your comment, it is insightful. Would you be able to say more about detective work, what that is about and how to go about it? Thanks
This is wonderful. Genuinely. I admire your level of knowledge and experience. I have gone to therapy several times but most therapists in my continent are not trauma-informed, thus they have been unable to tackle my secondary dissociation caused by lifelong trauma. This is the first time I see someone that actually understands trauma so deeply. I cognitively understand that I no longer live in a home with abusive, dangerous parents, but my brain is always interpreting things as danger signals. I want to live no longer haunted by my memories. It's so hard.
Agreed, it remains hard to understand why trauma is not being seen better given how common it is as a cause for mental health problems. Keep helping your brain become wise!
I am crying by the end after hearing you describe the concept of asking for outside support to feel safe and accomplished, how parts might struggle to feel anything good about themselves.
This is all exactly what I have been going through and have asked our support for help to make sure that therapy app is made and we don't keep hiding from everything all the time. For the first time, we could ask for help and trust that our support is safe and can be trusted.
We deserve to get help.
I appreciate this video very much. I am 7 years into trauma therapy and it has been the last 2 years that I am trying to be back in community again. I go through avoidance regularly still 2 years later where I have a weekly battle going to the gym and attending classes. I do well then I get terrified all over again. I have to force myself to go over and over and it just doesn’t get better. I never thought to give myself compassion for my fear. I just white knuckle it and get mad at myself for not ever getting over the desire to hide and avoid. Maybe more compassion for myself and acknowledging how far I have come. I also need to remind myself that I am safe because I don’t feel safe even though everything around me is saying this is safe. My brain needs me to help it know that I am now safe and the past is over.
Avoidance makes us small. That hit home.
Thank you for your videos, they really help. I’m doing my best to continue with my healing journey with only haphazard emails from my therapist (hooray covid...) and your calm way of explaining things is a great tool. I am a serial avoider and I know I am doing it...hopefully I’ll be able to stop avoiding without so much anxiety one day soon.
After retiring I withdrew from outside activities and my internal world grew and that was good. Sometimes I felt fearful and that’s when it became avoidance. Learning in small bits has helped.
Thanks for all your information and presentations.
im not able to pursue therapy at the moment due to other complications in my life, but its actually very comforting to know that what i instinctively did to get over the trauma of my car crash a few years back was actually the..... correct? way to deal with it. it probably would of been better to go through it with a pro and i probably could of handled certain aspects a little safer than i did (i think i put myself behind the wheel alone, much sooner than i should of lol). but theres some wonderful comfort in knowing that i DID handle that trauma well. theres no way in hell i can address anything else without any real therapy, but theres a wonderful comfort in knowing, not only what the process itself actually IS but that i know /I/ can do it and i /CAN/ get through it. for now, i shall stay safe in my avoidance, but i know that, when im ready and able to take that step, i CAN do it.
There are phycologist and other staff that's free in every community .God Bless and be healed .
@@bonniestulll1816 the free stuff was never an option for me - they would give me the bare minimum help because im not actively suicidal, and it was impossible to convince anyone i needed something other than CBT. however i HAVE since this post had the opportunity to find someone I can afford and work with! so im slowly unpacking my brain with her ;)
@@PrincessTokyoMoon and most are dangerous not knowing what the hell they do
this channel keep spilling tea on my head
catch me avoiding everything ever for over two years and now my life is completely dysfunctional because i have to hype myself up just to talk to friends which i accidentally made new ones because I ghosted all my old friends over two years ago while I was avoiding everything ever
Gosh, I relate so much to this. 😳
This is extremely helpful. Thank you! 💜
Your videos do help so incredibly much in addition to specialized therapy. Thank you once again, you're really precious in my process of getting to know myself with starting to communicate with one dissociated part after the other one and to feel more and more safe!
Thank you so much for this. Found it very helpful (took 3 goes to get through watching it all). I agree that as a dissociative person, avoidance has been a major part of our survival. I like how you explain overwriting, here in New Zealand we are going through a Royal Commission into Abuse in Care, like as was done in the UK and Australia, through that process on Saturday the 31 October detectives from the historical abuse unit came to my house with my therapist so I could do a video complaint about two past abuse events with a councilor when I was 19 and a psych nurse when I was 23. In the build up and some moments afterwards we were deeply avoiding and sleeping all the time. Since then it does feel like some overwriting is occurring because we finally spoke to the police. I can see that overwriting will be a large part of my movement forward, so thank you for re-framing that in our mind. My therapist has been talking about learning to be in the here and now, very difficult to do as you said my parts are back stuck in all the trauma, some are stuck in the ages it all happened as little's at age 3 etc. So overwriting our mind to try and understand that it is 2020 ( we do see the irony that this year is sh*t for the world)but it not the 1970's, 1980's or the 1990's or any other decade. will take a bit to wrap out minds around but do like the idea.
Thanks v much Dr Mike. Often avoidance for us is about being frightened of big emotions rather than the trigger (event / place etc) itself. Mainly because we haven’t learnt how to contain so we switch. That means we have to avoid anything that may evoke a strong emotional response. Do you see this philosophy as applying to this too?
Thank you, this was very helpful. Made me also realise that even though at _some_ level I do recognise my achievements and value myself for them, I still have a very hard time understanding that other people could value them as well. I feel a bit embarrassed every time the councelors (? not sure if that's the right word) in my trauma therapy group praise me for saying or having done something well, because I'm... somehow doubting their words? I don't even know, the underlying feeling of utter worthlessness* is just so strong that the feeling I get is something like "uh okay nice to hear I guess but does it really matter though".
In other words: I care about me, but (or 'because') I'm pretty sure no one else does. Occasionally I might believe that someone does, if they extremely directly show (or tell) so, but those moments go fleeting away and I return to my detached state.
*at this point I almost teared up but exhaled the feeling away, definitely not ready to face that thing there but it was good to watch this video, so that I can at least note the thing
This videos are lifesavers. Very informative, thank you. We can't find a therapist who has any experience with DID. So, these are a daily vibe.
Thank you so much for your kind words. We’re really glad you find the videos helpful.
We've achieved functional multiplicity in 6 mos flat with youtube videos and and doing a series of things that are very difficult on the bordy. We haven't had any "real help". So, this in kind of a morac;e/We wish we had some people to speak with but if isolation is what it takes. So beit.
Thanik you!
It's really helpful. I love it very much. Love from India. Where we don't have enough money to visit a therapist, you people are our hope, our light in the darkness. Thank you Doctor ❤️
We hope u make more videos soon. Holding on by the slenderest of threads, and your videos help.
Thank you, I try and do one whenever there is time available. Very glad they are helping you.
Another listen. Thanks Dr. Lloyd. Have you known any individuals who do not get to knowing there parts or trauma due to presence of family who though are not living with the individual render safety not a reality ??? Thanks 💙💞👊👊
Thank you for making this video. I've been in therapy for almost 15 years due to childhood trauma. I'd made some significant progress that I was very proud of. But last year, my therapist suddenly passed away and it hit me very hard, especially since only two months previous I'd also lost my beloved cat that'd I'd had as a kitten to cancer. It was such a shock that it set me back and this year certainly hasn't helped due to the pandemic as well as other smaller negative experiences.
However, I'm not going to just throw my hands up and say 'I give up.' I've come too far and been working on myself for too long for me to turn back. Hearing this has reaffirmed that I'm doing the right thing for myself and boosted my confidence to keep pushing that boulder uphill with a smile. Thank you for that. ♥
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I'm starting trauma therapy tomorrow!! Wish me luck
I hope it went well!
Thank you for all the time and effort put into these videos. Sadly here in the UK the NHS mental health support is extremely difficult to access. Your informative videos help to give direction and at least an idea of a way of navigating a healing path after a DID diagnosis. Please keep the information coming.
Thank you but I have done my therapy for 35 yrs . Relieved because I have control through 35 yrs. i may leave for days to rest and get myself comfort in myself .I know Im not the past or other parts of me . I have delt with all my persons or places that possible most persons are dead. Is clear I look at my surroundings is familiar. I also have a lot of physical disease with another comply but not drive .I have a lot of critical persons prognosis. It's hard to be alone in myself no accepted by anyone but family except my difference . God Bless you for your patience and calming excess of teaching and excepting . Excepting myself dill with myself and grown in my future not past. But can still trigger my problems and learning from myself past and now . I try come out but they think I'm freak or dangerous which I'm nighter I'm a serviber of five cancers one thing. God Bless you
Dr. Mike: your video was almost done (really helpful-thx) and you said, "going back to the building the fire was in.. " on my desk is a 1969 labor day news article about the fire at my granddad and dad's jewelry store. Something happened there-that day but as I remember next to to nothing from 1st-11th grade I'm not sure what. Your saying those words got my attention-thank you (I think)
thanks to this video i finally understood what my problem with my old therapist was :) he always talked about all the things i am avoiding and never looked at all the progress i made, so i felt like i was not good enough. luckily i found some really great friends who saw all that progress and also helped me see it myself! now i actually got really good at being proud of myself for managing to do stuff that i couldn't a few years ago :) since i'm looking for a new therapist right now, i should really keep this in mind! (i still hate the word avoidance though, but i already wrote an essay under your last video :D)
Thank you, Cirrus, glad it helped. Avoidance really is worth talking about!
Thank you
This was life changing!
This is just what we needed! We are a plural fragmented system(OSDD-1b) and although our therapist always says that we are doing so well as in growing as a system we can't see any progress in real life. Although avoidence is not new to us, we were not able to see that we are avoiding life itself since we started therapy. We didn't know we were a system and tried to do traumaintegration and of course all parts feel lost and far from safe. I can't even write an email without being flooded by anxiety. This comment will cause lots of anxiety as well but I am willing to try out some grounding tecnics we know and hope the parts will have a learning experience. My therapist tried to convince us to do such things but we just couldn't. We know we have to bc we are getting to comfortable in the innerworld and almost stopped living in the real world. Hearing the words that it can get very difficult when you're avoiding for a longer period has got us thinking about what we are doing. Thank you so much.
Hitting the button to send this off will increase the anxiety I am experiencing....
Made it ;)
Thank you for this, Crea, glad it has helped in your journey.
So affirming! Extraordinary helpful. Thank you.
Thank you so much! We’re really pleased that you find the video helpful.
Amazing video! Thank you
My little does not understand the passage of time. When she fronts, my advocate has communicated to her that the “bad” man is dead. But she does not get it. She is stuck in time. I also have an alter that is stuck in time… the rest have aged and kinda understand the passage of time. My alters have their own journals and the ones that can write, and they talk to me, thru their writings.. I, the host, know that I am safe. 6 of my alters know they are safe now, but 2 do not know that they are safe. I am working now to accept the “new” me, to work thru trauma, and share my life with the 7 girls in my head. thank you for your videos.
Another clip of usefulness, thank you for helping us prioritised what important for us to focus on and how. I’ve been doing such process but for the complexity of our conditions, we lost tracks of why we find processing difficult. We are now should have much more focus and confident to work with our current therapist. Thank you, we are so grateful that you are doing this amazing work and supporting us.
Thank you!
Thank you again.
Thank you so much for this video!!
Thank You!
Attending to the philosophy of trauma and avoidanance outcome in therapy and an individualised explanation of one's experience of this is a pretty important video viewing I think in coming to understand the turmoil of experience and what recovery can look like as the bridge to the other side....trauma no longer.
Thank you, Kenit!
Wow I never knew why I didn't celebrate myself. Now I get it. I'm still trying to find therapy. So far you're it Dr. Lloyd so thank you. ALL your videos are helpful. Slow down and celebrate. There 2 good things.
Thank you, Marcia!
This is extremely helpful, as all your videos are. Thank you 🖤
Thank you, too!
i feel like every other thing you say gives ~the lightbulb feeling~ & i should be writing it on a post-it & sticking it to my wall haha! thank you for the work you do, it's really appreciated ❤️
also, i have a question (& maybe a video topic?) - i've finally, finally got an emdr therapist..... but i don't feel safe talking to him at all. with people in general i've found i can learn to feel safer with them, but with therapists/counsellors it's usually been a gut reaction that sticks. i'm too scared to tell him that i don't think i can work with him though. i think part of the problem is that he reminds me of someone who traumatised me as a kid, so i can't see myself ever talking to him about traumatic stuff and feeling safe doing that, meaning the emdr just wouldn't work. reception have said i have to ask him if i can switch therapists, & he told me in our first session that anyone who works there can access patient records; so even if i stopped seeing him he'd still be able to read my info, so maybe i wouldn't feel safe seeing anyone there. which kinda sucks cos i've been on their waiting list for almost a year before this haha 😬 any advice on what i should do here? obvs just talking to him about it would probably be best, but i don't want to tell him he reminds my brain of an abusive person. that'd be a horrible thing to say to anyone, right?
ughhh sorry i don't wanna ask for free labor here - no pressure to answer at all! your videos are enough of a gift!!
It maybe worth continuing if you think this person can help, and to remind that guidelines for dissociation highlight how EMDR should and should not be used.
Linking Part 1 in the description would be helpful
I work with people in their homes who have anxiety and dissociative symptoms, helping them to deal with their daily life aquirements. They all experience lots of physical (stress)symptoms which they deem te be very bad. Often times they think they'll have a serious disease and sometimes believe they're dying, while every medical examination comes up without diagnosis. I can see they 'use' the physical symptoms as 'excuses' for their avoidance. So they don't consciously feel the fear, they feel pain, fatique or physical uncomfortableness and say because of that I can't do what I want to do. It makes their avoidance acceptabele for themselves, but still they grief over not having a life.
Could you speak about that? I don't know how to address that, it seems to be an extra layer over their fear, maybe due to shame and guild. Illness is acceptable, fear is not? It puts the fear at the background and the 'serious' illness at the forefront. They also are always trying to make everyone believe how bad their physical situation is while in fact most of it is caused by their mental state. Should I go along with the physical illness storylines and let the avoidance get worse? I'm not a therapist, therapy has not worked for two of them, so maybe this is their only coping mechanism?
You're basically describing me... Have you found any answers to this? Do you still do the work that you do?
Good stuff! Thanks for putting this out there, it was needed. Merry Christmas!
Thank you!
Thank you. Difficult to watch but a lifeline.
Thank you for doing this.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching
Excellent video. He explains things so well and in such a warm hearted fashion. People like him give me hope.
Thank you!
Thanks so much. Really helpful!
Thank you so much for your kind words!
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What a blessing these topics are. THANK YOU. Can you address the use of the TSI-2 and SCID and DES tools in assessing dissociation and how effective they are?
The TSI-2 is one of my favourites, it is great for looking at the wider response spectrum of trauma, so this could be a good topic. Thank you!
@@thectadclinic Hello again! Dr. Lloyd, do you have a video (or other resources) that addresses what good therapy interaction would look like for people who have been diagnosed with a dissociative disorder, and what range of time can they expect therapy to last? What are the signs that therapy is progressing? When is it time to seek a new therapist? What ups and downs would a person expect so they don't quit therapy too soon? It is a commitment and surely clients would want to know the signs that they are headed in the right direction with a therapist. This would be a good topic to address.
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Thank you. Where can I find part one?🌷
I watched this again. And it's true. I was having a panic attack and suddenly I realized I was not in danger. I was standing in my back yard. I stood there for several minutes and didn't see lions or tigers and suddenly I felt alright. I had no reason to be in fight/flight. I went from severe anxiety to none . It felt so good.
Right on target
Marcia, that is wonderful. Well done, you!
Thank you for sharing this, I always wondered about how avoidance relates to trauma. How would this explanation be linked so something like AvPD?
You give practical examples of how to manage avoidance in the outside world. Could you talk more about managing a client's avoidance of their own internal world? That is, when a client appears keen to think or speak about certain topics, but their brain rejects the thoughts, and dissociates the client away. More particularly, a client who dissociates away from the very concept of parts, and of internal communication itself; who finds it hard to address these ideas, as they both cause internal dissociation and shut down. Thanks.
Hi Phyllis, some of the questions you raised have been covered within the denial and recognition in later life, have a look at that and see if it helps. Thanks!
I don't want to be a different version of myself. I want to have appropriate emotional responses to things based on reality, not trauma. That's the same for everybody. If it's not, it means that they are not properly calibrated or attuned. I don't care to have some ego-identity. I want to be a fully fledged human being. Is that possible?
You are so brilliant at your job wish could have you
The problem for me is the thing that caused the trauma for me (close family deaths) keeps repeatedly happening. In fact, each time I get close to healing, it happens again. Repeatedly for seven years. It's not even a fear anymore. It's a fact. Two of them occurred this week, just as I was improving. I only have three or four close family members left, so I guess I'm just waiting for those to happen, too. Life may as well end me. I just get punished for trying.
Hi, I experience glimpses of my early childhood and it’s not great glimpses.
I’ve a hard time to trust people but I still have an approach that people think I’m very social but in contrary I’m very shy and have lots anxiety and I’ve C-ptsd, depression, adhd.
I can’t have an intimate relationship bc it’s sickness me. I’ve also trauma from my early teens.
I wake up in the middle night speaking to “someone”, it’s often a pretty clear conversation and it’s developed the latest years.
I also isolate myself more and more and I’m unable to do anything.
What do you think?
With kindness
Grace
Sounds like it would be useful to find someone who is able to look at these experiences with you, hopefully there is a therapist near you who can help.
@@thectadclinic thank you for your reply I truly appreciate it 🙏
My son has extreme avoidance and dissociation. We can’t find a specialist therapist who is willing to take help him. From your website I found out that you train people so I contacted your clinic. The reply I got was not only unhelpful but also very unkind.
I have looked at the reply, and am unsure why this would be considered to be unkind. If you would like to discuss, please contact via that channel.
How do I overwrite the traumatic experience I got in personal relationship? I cannot even approach people now, let alone starting a new relationship.
I 😅-my parts do not live in “ time”. Yes, it happened in the past, and I’m triggered into the same emotional state when I’m interacting with authority figures in the present, which leads to it could happen again- life has no guarantees, and that is why I ache to know what happened in the past, with who, what happened, what was I doing in the context. Then I can tag that event to that place and time and not globalize it to all people all time. I don’t ever feel safe- people are an unknown
I struggle with adls and for eg when i either go to toilet bathroom.or leave if i happen walk oast soneone or soemone walks past me i think worry i abused them invovled them in me being in bathroom hence did something abusive how do i process things like this rationally when im told i havent hurt abused anyone
Are you able to supervise clinicians in the US ?
Yes we can. Please contact us via the enquiries email on the website and we will get back to you asap
How could we work out who should be responsible for the mistake we made in life? I meant we were to scare to take up responsibility. We are struggling right now with emotions of guilt and shame. The memories and experiences from our abuser is so great. I’m not sure how to process this. Please help.
These are good questions, I hope you can work through them with help in a therapeutic context, it would be really useful to not have to hold onto guilt and shame that don’t belong.
Does this work when you in different parts as i have D I D
Welp, this took me three months to revisit. I think it's progress. 😹😹
I’m in treatment and really bad to point can’t toilet shower myself do meals baby parts etc. so many parts but the decided just now from having support dropping it you have to do everything by yourself his you talk about avoidance take slow they decided no what do I do I wish I could have you with all your understanding of
D I D story can’t do things and praise be great I didn’t get well done don’t get that
How can you prevent something that is being avoided from being concrete, if it is already concrete?!!!!!
Tc Da….TcTa. Thank you
What if the parents are calm because they're oblivious to what the child is going through? How can the child think "I'm anxious but I'm actually safe because look at them, they're calm" won't it just make them feel worse and crazy
I disagree, even those who been through childhood trauma, gain something, experience to help others, survivors are psychologists too.
Which I agree with as well, many people I have worked with have exceptional personal talents and skills, as a result of their experience. A terribly sad way to acquire such things, but amazing that they have.
Indeed, cause some of us get lost on the way, unfortunately
* Overwriting *