"[this kind of trauma doesn't] have to be present within the world of someone with autism in order for them to experience trauma to the degree that they may need dissociation as a coping strategy" this was so validating omg
"why didn't you tell anyone" has been the most frustrating question for me as an adult about my childhood trauma. I did tell people for the first 8 or so years, but after realizing I was always going to be blamed no matter or in some cases it made it worse, why the heck would I keep trying?
How to disappear completely: Spoken words can't communicate what trauma inflicts. Only art, music and poetry can. I gave this performance a few days after my mother/absuer died last year: ua-cam.com/video/8wFnVlIdj7c/v-deo.html It took me 7 years to learn how to play guitar, sing, and perform Radihead's "How to Disappear Completely" like that. It's devestating. I'm always in tears while playing it. It takes me back to the worst moments of my life. Safely. It gives trauma it's proper voice and profound, redemptive meaning. It connects me with the rest of humanity. People listening finally understand what I went through. Understand, because I take them through it with me. Together, we are healed. Music is love.
I knew someone in a similar situation. She'd call the police about her mother physically abusing her, and when they got there, her mom would turn the whole story around. I hope she's healed well. The things I've seen in that house are disgusting. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.
This is so important, thank you! Screening autistic people for trauma and dissociation (and then giving them appropriate, autism-friendly help) is desperately needed. And I would emphasize the flip side too, screening for autism (from a wider, more intersectional perspective than is typical) those with trauma and dissociation, or BPD, eating disorders, OCD, ADHD, and other common misdiagnoses or comorbidities. Autism can be playing such a huge role in how a person experiences life or trauma or treatment, but it often gets missed or dismissed, which can create more stressful or traumatic experiences within healthcare.
As an autistic person with trauma I view it like images flashing in my head if my trauma like a slide show and it’s horrific I can’t separate my trauma from the events ig like normal people can? Ig it’s an autistic thing and I can’t get rid of these thoughts 🥲 it’s all sexual trauma too
40 years after my first hospitalization, I've finally found a counsellor who 'allowed' me to talk about the cumulative effects of being neurodivergent "she's smart, she'll figure it out" ['cause we sure can't]; a military brat "why bother getting close to anyone; we'll just be leaving"; and a total inability to read peers "why would anyone want to do that? it's not practical." He's been able to listen in the calmest, safest manner to everyone as they were ready to talk. No judgement, and the wonderful 'we can talk about that again as many times as you want to' which gives me permission to let each part of me discuss the same thing from all the different perspectives inside at the time. It's given me the time to assess the convoluted feelings with the understanding that something can be traumatic from one perspective, even if another part is standing there at the same time saying, 'I don't see anything out of the ordinary.' As each concern is addressed for the stressing part of me, I can finally get to the one sitting on the outside in defiant denial, who never believed anyone would listen to all them long enough to convince me it was safe for the core defender to step out. I ran a tight ship.
I can say with 100% certainty that being undiagnosed with autism until I was 20 contributed to my trauma and dissociation. The level of stress I went through even before I was 3 years old due to sensory issues, having parents who had no clue how to help their children regulate emotions, and being punished for being "difficult" (aka having tantrums because I couldn't communicate properly) was immense. And then I was expected to be a neurotypical person throughout my teens and that just piled on the stress. I can also say that being diagnosed has been really good, but it's also caused professionals to attribute any symptom to autism, even if it's something like identity alteration or memory interruption. So it's been stressful trying to learn how to stand up for myself and be like "I may have autism, but I'm not stupid. I know how to do research and these symptoms are not associated with autism. So please stop trying to to gaslight me and either help me figure out what's going on or refer me to someone who can." I've finally found a psychologist who specializes in trauma, so fingers crossed I can actually get some help.
I feel your pain. I’m am getting an “official” diagnosis for my autism. I have a friend who is a psychiatrist. She has told me her “husband” has known for years that I am autistic. I’ve spent the past three years being diagnosed bipolar, schizophrenic, antisocial, the list goes on… Nothing quite fit. Autism fit. I just wish I’d known sooner. I turn 51 next month. You can cause a lot of unintentional damage through life, to yourself and others. When all you are trying to do is protect yourself the only way you don’t know how. You got this. We are survivors.
@fenixmeaney6170 Some, but not that much active 'hate', which might be addressable. It is mostly a subconscious process which the allistics can't ever even perceive, thus cannot realize a need for change at all. Allism is a blackhole of specialneed, so they project their untowardness as coming from outside, and then 'safe' to loath. I spent decades being open/out about being autistic on hypothesis that autism could be, um, accepted? tolerated? if visible. But it only allows more organized, intense hatred. I think change, if ever, will be centuries arriving.
I would love to see research about the frequency of Dissociative Identity Disorder and OSDD in Autistic populations. My partner and I knew we were autistic and traumatized when we met, but in the years since have both began treatment for DID, and it would be incredibly interesting to know how much more common it is in autistic folks considering the high rates of interpersonal trauma and child maltreatment in this population.
A lot of people with autism also have PTSD/BPD/CPTSD. If you look into structural dissociation theory, these are on a spectrum with DID being at the “extreme” end. So I think you’re onto something.
Being blamed and shouted at is literally my emotional flashback to trauma-the things my parents constantly did to me, along with threats of abandonment, saying how spoiled I was, violence, emotional abuse, gaslighting, death threats...the list goes on and on. I've been to psychiatrists and therapists for years who did nothing to help and some re-traumatized me by holding a fat bill over my head while blaming me after I explained the abuse I had survived through. Which is why seeing this video is so validating and brings some hope, not for me, but maybe to future autists and trauma survivors. Because here in the US, my experience with the mental health industry has been that there is no help only psychiatrists forcing pills down your throat for years, negligent therapists at best, and traumatizing at worst.
From the bottom of my heart THANK YOU! For your contribution to a better world! We recently found out we have ASD . . . Again. . . After discovering this several years ago, and then going into extreme denial and developing an alter ( we also have OSDD) to cope. We lived for over a year as the alter “prophet little rainbow” She believed in Christianity and thought our behavior was the result of demonic presences. The thing that made us rediscover our ASD was suffering from an ASD related injury. We sprained both wrists while having a severe meltdown and were unable to use our hands for several weeks. Our new host could no longer deny that this was not “normal” or “neuro-typical”. We looked through our history on our computer and discovered we had already done tons of research and tests and were 100% confident in our self diagnosis. But after experiencing more trauma and gaslighting, dissociated from the truth and developed an alter to cope with our severity of symptoms and complete lack of support for diagnosis. We are in a female body, 34 years of age, living in government housing (low socioeconomic status). But fortunately for us, we majored in Sociology in collage. So we used our understanding of “herd mentality” and “ethnocentric” world views and such. . . to survive.
Also not to mention ABA (and having most therapists shame me for stuff like using the wrong tone). And how those therapies already condition autistic women to be sexually assaulted as we are taught we aren't allowed boundaries.
This hit home, I have been masking for years because I was told my tone was not appropriate. The neurotypical assume that having the skill but not using it means the person is just lazy and rude. But if they never use it, they think they need to "train it into" the autistic person. In fact, there's only so much mental energy to expend; do you want me to speak with a certain tone and not follow through the rest of our interaction or do you want me to be present the whole time and just come off as awkward? There's so much clash between us and them. It's isolating and exhausting.
Solving my social problems passively is my favorite approach. It's hard to want to deal with people when everyone dismisses you or turns you into the problem. Part of this I'm coming to find is that because I'm so accustomed to ignoring my discomforts around other people, I often include myself in bad company or struggle to integrate my frustrations, leading to what appears to them a sudden problem, even when I've given warnings along the way. It isn't fair to blame them for my behaviors, however, but I'm not exactly fond of how these patterns began. Double-empathy problem gets us both.
Honestly, these videos are the only way I’m getting help. I took a test online and found out that I’m borderline autistic. I just covered I had DID in February. A lot of information is coming my way as far as the abuse that we suffered and it’s incredibly hard to deal with when you don’t have the financial means to figure it out with a professional. I would be so interested in participating in the study aforementioned in the video. I’m a 55-year-old woman who did not know she was abused Every single day of her life until November of last year. The amnesia is pretty fierce!
This was incredibly hard to watch for me, but necessary. I dismiss my own trauma out of habit and "forget" that I'm autistic. This made all sorts of feelings emerge, but most of all it made me remember to be kind to myself, cause I deserve kindness.
Thank you!!! I am an autistic adult with DID/OSDD and i am nit surprised by this data. Just being in the autistic communities online alone, it is almost a requirement that those of us “on the spectrum” not only talk about trauma and anxiety but disassociating in our chats. And in my plural identifying communities, several of us (systems) identify neurodivergently.
I hope there will be much more research about the overlap of autism and dissociation. It's so desperately needed. Also just having more accessible information online. I'm having a hard time understanding half of the abstract concepts that define the whole diagnosis of dissociative disorders. Like something feeling like "not me", when nothing "feels like me"? Or what's the difference between abnormal indentity alteration and something that is just emotions and aspects of a personality. It's driving me crazy!
I am so grateful for studies like this, and glad that numbers like this are getting out there. It's very affirming. And it is shocking to many people, but definitely a reality.
I'm autistic and have ADHD, GAD and CPSD. I also have long lasting dissociation/ derealisation issues. Each of these diagnoses are complex and multi- faceted coming from a combination of personality, personal traits, individual capacity and privilege, family environment, society and culture. There is only one way to understand and unpick such a mixed bag of both risk and protective factors and that's to build safely, create enough of a pause then work diligently and generously through diagnostic and therapeutic protocols. I was diagnosed in my 40's, before that I was an enigma. Someone who was both hyper functional and clueless. Please remember the somatosensory difficulties, the lumpy capacity, the different relationship we may have with primal fears and the fact we are used to being chronically invalidated and misunderstood.
Great video... such great points. I have autism and was always told I was being dramatic and that I was 'too sensitive'. This made me not realize that my childhood has been very traumatizing. I started realizing I have OSDD about a year and three months ago. (Not diagnosed, but my psychologist validates it and supports us) It makes so much sense to me that I learned to dissociate, as almost every day was hell for me when I had to go to school and feel the enormous social pressure to behave in this socially accepted way that everyone refused to explain to me. I experienced a kidnapping and unwanted emigration so those are my core trauma's, but autism made for many (social and sexual) trauma's further along the way.
I wish more professionals would just consider this body of research! It breaks my heart to see my ASD son suffering from maltreatment because people "don't want to get involved."
I really hope that trauma clinicians also screen for autism because it effects our ability to ground and the way we relate to theraputic relationships. If these are missed then therapy can become a new trauma in itself. We go to therapy with a need to see ourselves and be seen. If the other person doesn't understand our brain differences it gets to a point where what we are saying is missed or we miss what they are trying to communicate back and therefore relational safety is not achieved.
I've been wondering about this. I had a therapist that would continually trigger me and I don't know if they were aware of it or not. Are they supposed to ask 100 questions in a row? Do neurotypicals not mind that? Because I feel like I could be panicking and spacey and really wanting them to see they were hurting me and they never seemed to respond or ask "are you okay? is this method working for you?". I don't understand if it's a me problem or not. It seems like whenever I say "this therapy isn't helping me" they respond "but it helped everyone else! We've never had a complaint before!". I guess what I'm trying to say is how can you tell if someone is genuinely confused or deliberately ignoring you? Should I be doing something different?
@@se-n-fly-er it's your therapists job to fit their approach to you. Not you fit to them. If you have to mask in front of them then that is going to burn you out. If you are able to get a copy, there is a book that was recommended to me last week when I got my autism diagnosis called 'The Autistic Survival Guide to Therapy - Steph Jones'. I'm planning on reading it soon. You aren't the only one that feels that way, I did too. Questions for me feel like demands to find answers, which takes me time to process so it just gives me demand avoidance. What that therapist was really telling you is 'I have only treated neuro typicals before and I don't have the experience to adapt this therapy to accomodate a different way of processing'. They probably didn't have the awareness of this, so please hear from me that I am deeply sorry that they hurt you that way. I have a new therapist now, he's healing a lot of the pain from the bad experience I had. I hope that you feel able to try again soon and find someone experienced in your particular neuro divergence. You deserve better!
Sometimes planned dissociation (as in : I will completely lose myself in this video, this game, this art, this stim, this music, etc., ) is way the autistic I love copes with every day unpredictable stressors and unpredictable responses from their own nervous system. It is a deliberate way of resetting their nervous system, much like rebooting a computer. I think there is a place for looking at planned dissociation as a healthy, normal coping tool.
That's an interesting way of looking at it! I am an autistic adult with (probably) OSDD and my system actually uses positive triggers like music, games, and smells to help us manage switches. I thought of this immediately when watching the CTAD video about action systems that mentions that dissociative parts are susceptible to conditioning - obviously this is talked about in the context of trauma-based triggers, but we've found that neutral or positive triggers can also bring out specific system members without them feeling scared or upset. I think this type of positive cue-based switching can be really useful for communicating with more distraught parts and helping them to express their needs.
I treat autistic children, and the use of sensory-based treatment will decrease their use of self-stimulation, aggression, and improve their ability to communicate and thrive. You can find occupational therapists that will work with adults using adult-focused treatments that can be done independently at home. There are downsides to dissociation that affect successful relationships and the ability to work. Sensory treatment can replace dissociation as a more mature and functional coping skill. Good luck to you!!
@@Cathy-xi8cb, we did a lot of O.T. when they were younger, although that was pre-ASD diagnosis. We have no aggression or self-injuring behaviors. Certainly the weighted blanket, differently textured foods, and "heavy work " are all helpful, but I see no need to make them stop flapping their hands or regulating with favorite music videos or video games. It's not that different than coming home from a tough day at work and losing yourself in a good book or movie.
I'm late but this was fascinating. As an autistic adult with complex trauma I just want to say thank you for having the conversation and doing the research. It is so invaluable to getting people the help they need ❤
min 26:45 "[when there's so much pressure especially from someone in authority to not act like who you are, it almost encourages derealization and depersonalization... people are made to not remain grounded in their bodies]" !!
Amazing discussion! These findings are very sobering. As an autistic with DID this is very interesting. Perhaps autism screenings can also be offered for people presenting with DID/OSDD and trauma should be considered as well. Thank you both so much!!
Thanks a lot! I am autistic and until now I thought that I had to get rid of the bad habit of slipping out of reality when overwhelmed before I could think of starting a therapy (did it once decades ago and the therapist insisted in me not reacting was an attempt of manipulation). Now I am starting to see the issue from a rather different perspective.
Holy crap. Those numbers are terrifying, and the intensity of trauma and lack of support are even worse. I've been wanting to watch this video for a while but it was a bit long for my dissociating brain to process. I've tried to get involved in research and surveys and at least for here in Australia there's not really anything available in a more local level, but hopefully we can participate in future stuff online. ~ Jamie
Another thing that can be an issue is the tools used for screening for trauma and dissociation. I've found that a lot of psychological evaluations are very much geared towards neurotypicals and consequently can be very confusing from an autistic perspective- simultaneously too specific and too vague; it's hard to tell if I experience the thing being described just in a different way or if I just don't experience the thing being described.
Thank you so much for this video. I have never felt more seen. I started crying when you talked about how autistic children are seen as bad kids who can be punished in different ways. I was mistreated/abused for years by my parents in the name of "learning" and I've only recently come to terms with the fact it wasn't my fault, because the years of victim blaming from everyone in my life told me otherwise. I most likely have DID, though my brain isn't really comfortably with self diagnosis. I took the DES-II and got a score well into the DID range... I have been speaking to many diagnosed people with DID (who all seem to think I have DID) and doing as much research as I can, since it will likely be years before I can attempt any kind of diagnosis. I only became aware of this around six months ago, where I lost a week of time and according to a friend (who apparently had witnessed several alters as well, and told me they thought I had DID, and I didn't believe them) did a lot of things out of character for myself and was preparing to commit suicide... but it all sort of makes sense now. I was never able to remember the abuse I faced, and when I did, it was blurry and in the third person. I would be asked to take accountability for actions I felt like were being forced through my body while I was watching. Everyday events are all blurry before the age of thirteen. There are times where I would blackout and write it off as something else. I've since uncovered weird evidence... poetry that I didn't write, text messages I cannot recall, vivid imagery of "imaginary friends" from my childhood. Also the giant inner world I have had for years and could never explain. Flashbacks and nightmares. It all sort of came together and made sense, but I still don't really believe it. Such a huge part of me just thinks I want to play the victim and exist on the end of a spectrum to impose a binary my autistic brain is comfortable with. And then I look at the evidence and it's scary. This video was so validating.
I'm a french adult, autistic and with a DID, thank you very much Katherine for your work. It's a precious one. I hope some similar work will appear in France one day. Autistic life could be a very hard one, but we deserve to live a good life. I really agree about non speaking autists, we need more research focus on them and their traumas
I have so many thoughts about this video as someone who is autistic and a survivor of abuse (directly related to being autistic, I think)... I'm not sure where to even begin or how to put my thoughts into words. Had to cut the video short because it started getting sorta triggering towards the end, but thank you for trying to start a conversation around these topics and bringing them peoples' attention.
Thank you so much for elaborating on the relationship between autism and trauma. As one of the tribe with a dissociative disorder, this information is invaluable. I hope your work together will help make clinicians and public health providers more sensitive to these issues, as the human cost is enormous!
Dear Katherine and dr Mike, thank you so much for this video! You both do amazing and important work. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us. I feel so much validated! Your information helps me to start seeing all these different things I struggle with in one picture that makes sense.
Thank you! It has been significantly difficult to find information regarding autism and it's relationship with trauma. I have been diagnosed with CPTSD and am currently working towards being evaluated for ASD, as I feel the symptoms of CPTSD were present since memory begins for me. The autistic life experience is one fraught with enhanced sensory input issues and perpetual confusion in socially sensitive situations. I resonate deeply with this subject.
Thank you so much for this video! There is a lot of things resonating with me right now, and I cannot stressed out how much those videos are helping me. Thank you so much!
I would like Katherine to explore the incidence and prevalence of sensory processing disorder with individuals diagnosed with autism. The sensory aversions and avoidance behaviors seen are treated effectively by highly skilled occupational therapists. Because of the suspected organicity of many people with autism, it isn't a cure. It is an effective and practical treatment that improves both interoception and body awareness. This decreases the incidence of depersonalization and derealization, without psychotherapy.
This is fascinating. I have autism, CPTSD and dissociation disorders. This is such an eye opener to me personally and I'm hoping that my therapy (EMDR) will actually help me or not.
I have DID and a therapist used EMDR with us. This was before I knew I had DID. At any rate it ended quite badly and I was later told by a therapist who specializes in DID tell me that should have been expected? I literally ended up visualizing an explosion at the point I should have seen what we were looking for. I’ve heard alters protect that information until they feel safe with you holding the knowledge. Just be careful!
Your therapist needs to be informed of the modifications that need to be made for EMDR with individuals with dissociative disorders. If your therapist is not aware of the dangers of EMDR with dissociation, take great caution.
I can appreciate the amount of work from conceptualizing to delivering a set of newly confirmed facts to enhance the standard of care provided to be more parallel with the actual symptoms secondary to maltreatment and the consequential outcomes. Shown statistical improvements subjectively and objectively are worth every hour of your work according to your peers, your public and your your ;target population will no doubt live a more balanced life as a result of you following established standards of research. There is so much difference in research based practices as quality control and quality improvements to therapy where healing treatment plans are participated in compared to a practice using "isolated bright ideas". Thank the clinic and the research centers. Keep up how you rock!!!
I am educating myself. Dissociating has been a big question for the way I felt during childhood. It connects with CPTSD and autism symptoms I experience.
This video was very well long awaited. Thanks 🙏 . Especially with trauma being said. . Thank you so much about having this conversation. I’m suffering this trauma. I’m not alone. Ie Paris Texas. Thanks 🙏
This is a very good series but it left me with the question: Is ‘shutdown’ just another word for dissociation? And can it be caused just by sensory overwhelm? When I was assessed for autism I was asked about trauma but not dissociation, since I did not really experienced one traumatic even I can point to, I can only assume the dissociation stems from dealing with sensory overload / interpersonal interaction anxiety but I was not asked about it so did not mention it 😅
Yesterday, after watching a couple of your videos for the first time in a long time, I suddenly realized that I was demonstrating a behavior of trying to fill a missing "maternal" figure in my life, and I couldn't understand why bc my mom and I have always gotten along well and been close. But then I found out that when I was a toddler, I didn't really like hugs. And then suddenly it crashed down on me: that missing connection, that lack of healthy attachment, was because of misunderstood signals and communication failures. Its because I'm autistic.
I just didn't know how to explain. I couldn't communicate. And when I tried, I wasn't understood. It was so bad, I develop a genuine fear of not being eternally misunderstood. And eventually I decided that i must just be a monster because no one understood me; not even the professionals. holy fuck man. "[deadname] is a joy to have in class but struggles to form friendships with peers." Yea, no kidding.
@@septicember Wow, that is a tough read from a teacher without wondering why this might be the case. I certainly hope you find some peace with this position and work it to your best life!
A friend sent me this video and I'm just so happy to see that there is research going on about this kind of comorbidity... it does make me wonder, as someone who has been misdiagnosed (they immediately went to bpd, just recently I've discovered I'm actually autistic) and has "suffered" through treatments that just weren't designed for someone like me; is there any progress on finding a more effective treatment on trauma and dissociation in people with autism? I've done emdr and exposure therapy at specialised clinics, but it was just hit and missed bc the autism was completely overlooked, these treatments have actually only made my symptoms worse. I've been looking for alternatives, but there's still so little (accessible) information about this, a lot of healthcare providers here won't even "try with me" anymore. Autism isn't my problem, that's just the way my brain works, but because nobody really "noticed" this struggle before, a lot of hurt and trauma has been caused... I don't even know where to look for treatment anymore.
As someone who is an Aspie, we are definitely vulnerable to abuse and assault. We just don't really understand people's motivations and get ourselves as children into odd and dangerous predicaments. Sadly pedos and predators have a sense for this and they prey upon that trait within autistic spectrum. I was molested by my 5th grade teacher, and my best friend's older brother. I was initially diagnosed with OSDD and after more therapy we realized that was wrong. As a defensive mechanism to fit in, feel comfortable or protect myself, girls have a trait of masking. Acting. No I never really felt like I knew myself because I was always doing this performance but can masking be seen as creating parts or alternative consciousness to handle day-to-day life? I'm not sure. I think this is where DID/OSDD and Aspies who mask converge or cross paths at this intersection. I'll also add I ended up leaving the Psychology program at my university and changed schools/majors because I don't feel America is doing right by children allowing hormone blockers in kids that present gender dysphoria. If a child could be on the spectrum, abused by a close relative, school teacher, older friend's sibling, and DID/OSDD develops in childhood. If a child is displaying trans gender traits can there be trauma hidden? It was a question that had professors and students telling me that I'm not only wrong but transphobic. When I study the DID/OSDD systems, I find there's a lot of trans individuals in the community due to majority of parts being a certain gender, which leads certain individuals to transition. A form of added protection, maybe? I don't know. But children on the spectrum really don't understand something bad is happening. It's my teacher or it's my best friend's brother...they're being nice. This is what people do. We don't know how to make connections or discern this is bad at times, especially when we're young. Especially if we don't have friends. Or god forbid, a parent is the abuser or behind the sexual assault. If DID/OSDD isn't diagnosed until after teen years, because most personality disorders are. And gender dysphoria is a symptom of DID/OSDD along with 80% of people with the disorder displaying covert symptoms of the disorder, I felt trauma could continue and be missed when parents are allowed to give their kids hormone blockers. It's trans not trauma. A quick fix of hormone blockers will not help trauma but hide it even further. That's my biggest worry. This subject is also crucial I believe in getting gender dysphoria in kids right. When a child displays girly traits with mom but heads over to dad's house and displays more boyish traits, and even states Mom wants me to be a girl (as in the case in TX), I have to wonder if there is more there.
Hi. Thanks for your post. I just want to respond to your point in your third paragraph about DID/OSDD 'isn't diagnosed until after teen years, because most personality disorders are'. DID/OSDD are not personality disorders; they are dissociative disorders.
@@Anonymous-dh2lt Then I'd ask, how early are dissociative disorders diagnosed? Because my point was that as youngsters on the spectrum, it seems clinicians today are more apt to diagnose an individual with gender dysphoria or trans rather than really understanding spectrum disorders or even dissociation.
This is so important - could you add subtitles to his video? The automatic subtitles are not good enough to follow through since it catches every "um", "hm" and has troubles with not so clear speech.
We would love to be able to do this but just do not have the time. There are community subtitles if you would be so kind as to help with this. Please let us know if you can and submit them!
very difficult to understand for those with auditory processing issues and the closed captions are almost invisible. does anyone know how to change this? or is it set that way?
There is some research suggesting that as autistic individuals tend to focus more on details than the big picture, they may find compartmentalising easier/more natural than NTs. I wonder if that contributes to the development of parts in autistic people who also have DID.
I am wondering whether DID can look like autism. That's from my own experience: I got various diagnoses related to trauma/dissociation. Somehow I have “encapsulated“ a lot of my emotions and buried them deep within me. On the outside this kind of looks autistic. At the time I grew up, autism wasn't diagnosed as much as today, but when I compare myself with younger people that have an official diagnosis of autism, I see a lot of similarities.
Hi Mike, thinking about the improbability of being a singlet at a biological level and how being on autism would seem to make that even more unlikely. there are 86 billion neurons in your brain, the vast majority of those neurons are not connected to each other (you dont have each of the 86 billion neurons fully connected to all the other 86 billion neurons, think 86 billion factorial connections). There are countless partially decoupled clusters of neurons. What aspect of partially decoupled partially asynchronous clusters of neurons structurally implies a human brain would self evidently operate as a single unified consciousness? i have read that people on autism spectrum have higher neuron connectivity with short dendrites, and far low neuron connectivity with long dendrites (due to prenatal elevated testosterone levels) , suggesting a unified whole brain consciousness is even less suggested by that type of neural connectivity. maybe people on autism spectrum have brain structures that are already leaning towards naturally having plurality of consciousness??? add trauma, and reduced long distance neuron interconnectivity, and its easy to imagine further devoupling. have you read anything along this line of congecture?
I'm not sure what you mean by the "improbability of being a singlet at a biological level" though. If you mean by 'singlet' (and I am not a fan of that term at all), someone like me, then I am one person. Pretty much everyone I know considers themselves to be one person, so it can't be that improbable!
@@thectadclinic Hello :-). From a neurological topology, we have {tightly interconnected groups of neurons} that are loosely interconnected. Behaviorally, given there are a fixed number of sensors/actuators in a human body (eyes, arms, legs) there is a motivator for the person to create one neural system to control those sensors/actors. However, the partial inter connectivity of neurons in-of-its-self does not lean towards a singularity of consciousness. So my congecture is, the less long-distance dendrites connecting {tightly interconnected groups of neurons} located in different sections of the brain, the more probable that you could get distinct alters. If you look at functional MRI scans, different alters are in activating different locations of the brain when performing the same task.. The lower the long-distance dentrite connectivity between those locations, the less information exchange between those alters / non-overlapping brain regions. This could also explain different functional abilities of different alters (given people on autism have less long-distance dendrites, they re more likely to access capabilities of the brain that are closest to that alter’s location in the brain).
Is this the dr sharon who had give me a second opinion on how I was born with alters as asd & its rare and that there wasnt a solution to it and that i had to live with it?
As an autistic system, we're curious if some of this might contribute to why so many trans people are plural, especially nonbinary trans people. While the majority of trans people are allistic, there is a disproportate amount who are autistic, and I wonder if multiplicity may play a role in this, since being more than one inherently messes with your concepts of gender, even if you're one of the few single sex systems.
@@ffthack it's more than that probably, and OSDD-1 is even more common than DID. I think DID and OSDD have an estimated combined rate of like 5.6%? either way we're really not rare at all. uncommon at most (least? lmao)
I don't really know how to thank you Dr odija on UA-cam for making me to live like my fellow mates and for curing me from diabetes.... thank you so much may God always strengthen you and your work..
Im definitely slightly autistic but I took a test online anyways. My results said very likely but ill leave a link to the test at bottom if others want to try. I noticed on the website it says that to get tested for Autism in the UK it costs 2250£?? That's like 2800$. Seems odd. But that's not really my concern. I want to vent. Ok so..Im 35 yr old male. I have a level of understanding of the subjects of mental health and disorders that's only slightly beyond superficial so I know how mistaken or ambiguous what I think or say may be but let me try. I've not had many diagnosis' but I have tried therapy 3-4 times. Most of my life I've been far to out of touch with myself anyways. I doubt the local therapists could have recognized what was really going on with me because I really am that messed up. At least though, parts of me have started to recognize some realitys and human things again. This post isn't totally about me but I have to try to explain a few things so that I can get to the right context. I remember 3-4 years ago, looking at a webpage that listed the known causes/trauma-types that lead to the types of disorders I was beginning to recognize through myself. Tuens out, I had been almost every thing they listed. I was separated from my parents and juggled around family and friends from 6months -2 yrs old because my older (5y) sister had to fight brain cancer 1000miles away. Thankfully they helped my family beat it but when my sister got back, she had changed (from what I understand). Something about all the attention that she had received and then maybe the the actual surgery removing a piece of her brain, affected her in a way. She basically hated me because I was a baby getting attention or something. She was really bad ro me and would like torture me as a toddler and continued to be very bad to me until I was old enough to fight back. Lol.. it's just funny. I also nearly died twice, had to save my Mom and sister from a bad rollover accident, been sexually abused, and went blind in one eye from in an ice fishing accident all before the age of 5. Oh ya.. and when they did the laser surgery on my eye... They actually messed it up in my lens came popping on my eyeballs so I had to get rushed back down state again for surgery again. This sorta of pattern never stuck my whole life and I would go through even more extremely traumatizing experiences that seemed tailored to put an innocent, sensitive, confused kid through hell. There were good things in my life too tho which is probably why there's still some kind of human burried deep in my ultra dissociated psyche. The reason I had to bring those things up is this ... My sister did grow up and did did end up having 2 children. 1boy(15, now) and girl (12). She's not a sadistic psycho anymore but she is not like a normal adult/mother. Though he does have emotions and she just love the kids... she has a very limited capacity as a parent. God ... I'm making this too long I really got to get to my point. So.. my nephew is autistic and my niece is getting worse everyday. My sister probably will never really understand what it's like to be a sincere parent. She mostly just does what society programs for parents. She knows all the rules and social obligation stuff but doesnt think or judge for herself. She's the kind of person who puts her cars blinkers on when turning into her own driveway in the middle of nowhere with no one around. She takes care of her kids on a practical level but doesnt teach rhem anything nor show them what I would consider as sincere affection or parental love. I'm sure she does love them but they've been raising those kids like vegetables. It also seems like she doesn't perceive that she is the parent and that they are the children. I don't know I can't even finish explaining this I need help tho... Both for myself and for the kids.😟 www.clinical-partners.co.uk/for-adults/autism-and-aspergers/adult-autism-test/adult-autism-test-results/results
Definitely check the NHS route first, as all Trusts should be providing assessment and diagnosis for autism. Private assessment will vary enormously in costs, so ask GP about referral to local services. Hopefully you can work all this out!
Autism and trauma both amplify emotional deregulation to an extremely unbearable extent and the camouflage of dissociation mixed with how common Narcissistic abuse is makes imposter syndrome really intense for people who have both conditions. 🧩
"[this kind of trauma doesn't] have to be present within the world of someone with autism in order for them to experience trauma to the degree that they may need dissociation as a coping strategy" this was so validating omg
"why didn't you tell anyone" has been the most frustrating question for me as an adult about my childhood trauma. I did tell people for the first 8 or so years, but after realizing I was always going to be blamed no matter or in some cases it made it worse, why the heck would I keep trying?
How to disappear completely: Spoken words can't communicate what trauma inflicts. Only art, music and poetry can. I gave this performance a few days after my mother/absuer died last year:
ua-cam.com/video/8wFnVlIdj7c/v-deo.html
It took me 7 years to learn how to play guitar, sing, and perform Radihead's "How to Disappear Completely" like that. It's devestating. I'm always in tears while playing it. It takes me back to the worst moments of my life. Safely. It gives trauma it's proper voice and profound, redemptive meaning. It connects me with the rest of humanity. People listening finally understand what I went through. Understand, because I take them through it with me. Together, we are healed.
Music is love.
People were going bad n evil back in 70s so yeah only a few adults ever cared
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience okay? did you mean to reply to me?
I knew someone in a similar situation. She'd call the police about her mother physically abusing her, and when they got there, her mom would turn the whole story around. I hope she's healed well. The things I've seen in that house are disgusting. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.
This is so important, thank you! Screening autistic people for trauma and dissociation (and then giving them appropriate, autism-friendly help) is desperately needed. And I would emphasize the flip side too, screening for autism (from a wider, more intersectional perspective than is typical) those with trauma and dissociation, or BPD, eating disorders, OCD, ADHD, and other common misdiagnoses or comorbidities. Autism can be playing such a huge role in how a person experiences life or trauma or treatment, but it often gets missed or dismissed, which can create more stressful or traumatic experiences within healthcare.
All very good points. We need to be much more broader in our approach when thinking about what is happening with a person ‘around’ the trauma.
As an autistic person with trauma I view it like images flashing in my head if my trauma like a slide show and it’s horrific I can’t separate my trauma from the events ig like normal people can? Ig it’s an autistic thing and I can’t get rid of these thoughts 🥲 it’s all sexual trauma too
Hello guys have you tried herbs it works, I tried it and got cure from Herpes and Autism with the help of doc Okougbo UA-cam channel 🌿
40 years after my first hospitalization, I've finally found a counsellor who 'allowed' me to talk about the cumulative effects of being neurodivergent "she's smart, she'll figure it out" ['cause we sure can't]; a military brat "why bother getting close to anyone; we'll just be leaving"; and a total inability to read peers "why would anyone want to do that? it's not practical." He's been able to listen in the calmest, safest manner to everyone as they were ready to talk. No judgement, and the wonderful 'we can talk about that again as many times as you want to' which gives me permission to let each part of me discuss the same thing from all the different perspectives inside at the time. It's given me the time to assess the convoluted feelings with the understanding that something can be traumatic from one perspective, even if another part is standing there at the same time saying, 'I don't see anything out of the ordinary.' As each concern is addressed for the stressing part of me, I can finally get to the one sitting on the outside in defiant denial, who never believed anyone would listen to all them long enough to convince me it was safe for the core defender to step out. I ran a tight ship.
I can say with 100% certainty that being undiagnosed with autism until I was 20 contributed to my trauma and dissociation. The level of stress I went through even before I was 3 years old due to sensory issues, having parents who had no clue how to help their children regulate emotions, and being punished for being "difficult" (aka having tantrums because I couldn't communicate properly) was immense. And then I was expected to be a neurotypical person throughout my teens and that just piled on the stress.
I can also say that being diagnosed has been really good, but it's also caused professionals to attribute any symptom to autism, even if it's something like identity alteration or memory interruption. So it's been stressful trying to learn how to stand up for myself and be like "I may have autism, but I'm not stupid. I know how to do research and these symptoms are not associated with autism. So please stop trying to to gaslight me and either help me figure out what's going on or refer me to someone who can." I've finally found a psychologist who specializes in trauma, so fingers crossed I can actually get some help.
I was 39 when I got my ASD-1 diagnosis. I had full blown C-PTSD by my late 20s.
I feel your pain. I’m am getting an “official” diagnosis for my autism. I have a friend who is a psychiatrist. She has told me her “husband” has known for years that I am autistic. I’ve spent the past three years being diagnosed bipolar, schizophrenic, antisocial, the list goes on… Nothing quite fit. Autism fit.
I just wish I’d known sooner. I turn 51 next month. You can cause a lot of unintentional damage through life, to yourself and others. When all you are trying to do is protect yourself the only way you don’t know how.
You got this. We are survivors.
I was diagnosed early and it BARELY helped. Sometimes it seems like neurotypicals just hate us.
@fenixmeaney6170 Some, but not that much active 'hate', which might be addressable. It is mostly a subconscious process which the allistics can't ever even perceive, thus cannot realize a need for change at all.
Allism is a blackhole of specialneed, so they project their untowardness as coming from outside, and then 'safe' to loath. I spent decades being open/out about being autistic on hypothesis that autism could be, um, accepted? tolerated? if visible. But it only allows more organized, intense hatred. I think change, if ever, will be centuries arriving.
Maybe i describe the allistics dissociation?
I would love to see research about the frequency of Dissociative Identity Disorder and OSDD in Autistic populations. My partner and I knew we were autistic and traumatized when we met, but in the years since have both began treatment for DID, and it would be incredibly interesting to know how much more common it is in autistic folks considering the high rates of interpersonal trauma and child maltreatment in this population.
I agree
A lot of people with autism also have PTSD/BPD/CPTSD. If you look into structural dissociation theory, these are on a spectrum with DID being at the “extreme” end. So I think you’re onto something.
Being blamed and shouted at is literally my emotional flashback to trauma-the things my parents constantly did to me, along with threats of abandonment, saying how spoiled I was, violence, emotional abuse, gaslighting, death threats...the list goes on and on. I've been to psychiatrists and therapists for years who did nothing to help and some re-traumatized me by holding a fat bill over my head while blaming me after I explained the abuse I had survived through. Which is why seeing this video is so validating and brings some hope, not for me, but maybe to future autists and trauma survivors. Because here in the US, my experience with the mental health industry has been that there is no help only psychiatrists forcing pills down your throat for years, negligent therapists at best, and traumatizing at worst.
From the bottom of my heart THANK YOU! For your contribution to a better world! We recently found out we have ASD . . . Again. . . After discovering this several years ago, and then going into extreme denial and developing an alter ( we also have OSDD) to cope. We lived for over a year as the alter “prophet little rainbow” She believed in Christianity and thought our behavior was the result of demonic presences. The thing that made us rediscover our ASD was suffering from an ASD related injury. We sprained both wrists while having a severe meltdown and were unable to use our hands for several weeks. Our new host could no longer deny that this was not “normal” or “neuro-typical”. We looked through our history on our computer and discovered we had already done tons of research and tests and were 100% confident in our self diagnosis. But after experiencing more trauma and gaslighting, dissociated from the truth and developed an alter to cope with our severity of symptoms and complete lack of support for diagnosis. We are in a female body, 34 years of age, living in government housing (low socioeconomic status). But fortunately for us, we majored in Sociology in collage. So we used our understanding of “herd mentality” and “ethnocentric” world views and such. . . to survive.
Also not to mention ABA (and having most therapists shame me for stuff like using the wrong tone). And how those therapies already condition autistic women to be sexually assaulted as we are taught we aren't allowed boundaries.
That sounds really sad.
This hit home, I have been masking for years because I was told my tone was not appropriate. The neurotypical assume that having the skill but not using it means the person is just lazy and rude. But if they never use it, they think they need to "train it into" the autistic person.
In fact, there's only so much mental energy to expend; do you want me to speak with a certain tone and not follow through the rest of our interaction or do you want me to be present the whole time and just come off as awkward?
There's so much clash between us and them. It's isolating and exhausting.
I think phantasia or aphantasia is related to the skill required to use defense of dissociation.
Solving my social problems passively is my favorite approach. It's hard to want to deal with people when everyone dismisses you or turns you into the problem. Part of this I'm coming to find is that because I'm so accustomed to ignoring my discomforts around other people, I often include myself in bad company or struggle to integrate my frustrations, leading to what appears to them a sudden problem, even when I've given warnings along the way. It isn't fair to blame them for my behaviors, however, but I'm not exactly fond of how these patterns began. Double-empathy problem gets us both.
Honestly, these videos are the only way I’m getting help. I took a test online and found out that I’m borderline autistic. I just covered I had DID in February. A lot of information is coming my way as far as the abuse that we suffered and it’s incredibly hard to deal with when you don’t have the financial means to figure it out with a professional. I would be so interested in participating in the study aforementioned in the video. I’m a 55-year-old woman who did not know she was abused Every single day of her life until November of last year. The amnesia is pretty fierce!
So sorry. Struggling with my own denial.
Hello guys have you tried herbs it works, I tried it and got cure from Herpes and Autism with the help of doc Okougbo UA-cam channel 🌿
I think my BPD friend had those kind of issues.
It makes my 5 months of amnesia seem miniscule. I'm so sorry.
This was incredibly hard to watch for me, but necessary. I dismiss my own trauma out of habit and "forget" that I'm autistic. This made all sorts of feelings emerge, but most of all it made me remember to be kind to myself, cause I deserve kindness.
Thank you!!! I am an autistic adult with DID/OSDD and i am nit surprised by this data. Just being in the autistic communities online alone, it is almost a requirement that those of us “on the spectrum” not only talk about trauma and anxiety but disassociating in our chats. And in my plural identifying communities, several of us (systems) identify neurodivergently.
I hope there will be much more research about the overlap of autism and dissociation. It's so desperately needed. Also just having more accessible information online. I'm having a hard time understanding half of the abstract concepts that define the whole diagnosis of dissociative disorders. Like something feeling like "not me", when nothing "feels like me"? Or what's the difference between abnormal indentity alteration and something that is just emotions and aspects of a personality. It's driving me crazy!
I am so grateful for studies like this, and glad that numbers like this are getting out there. It's very affirming. And it is shocking to many people, but definitely a reality.
Agreed, the figures are really awful, but we need to have this data to make changes happen.
I'm autistic and have ADHD, GAD and CPSD. I also have long lasting dissociation/ derealisation issues. Each of these diagnoses are complex and multi- faceted coming from a combination of personality, personal traits, individual capacity and privilege, family environment, society and culture. There is only one way to understand and unpick such a mixed bag of both risk and protective factors and that's to build safely, create enough of a pause then work diligently and generously through diagnostic and therapeutic protocols. I was diagnosed in my 40's, before that I was an enigma. Someone who was both hyper functional and clueless. Please remember the somatosensory difficulties, the lumpy capacity, the different relationship we may have with primal fears and the fact we are used to being chronically invalidated and misunderstood.
Great video... such great points. I have autism and was always told I was being dramatic and that I was 'too sensitive'. This made me not realize that my childhood has been very traumatizing. I started realizing I have OSDD about a year and three months ago. (Not diagnosed, but my psychologist validates it and supports us) It makes so much sense to me that I learned to dissociate, as almost every day was hell for me when I had to go to school and feel the enormous social pressure to behave in this socially accepted way that everyone refused to explain to me. I experienced a kidnapping and unwanted emigration so those are my core trauma's, but autism made for many (social and sexual) trauma's further along the way.
I wish more professionals would just consider this body of research! It breaks my heart to see my ASD son suffering from maltreatment because people "don't want to get involved."
I really hope that trauma clinicians also screen for autism because it effects our ability to ground and the way we relate to theraputic relationships. If these are missed then therapy can become a new trauma in itself. We go to therapy with a need to see ourselves and be seen. If the other person doesn't understand our brain differences it gets to a point where what we are saying is missed or we miss what they are trying to communicate back and therefore relational safety is not achieved.
I've been wondering about this. I had a therapist that would continually trigger me and I don't know if they were aware of it or not. Are they supposed to ask 100 questions in a row? Do neurotypicals not mind that? Because I feel like I could be panicking and spacey and really wanting them to see they were hurting me and they never seemed to respond or ask "are you okay? is this method working for you?".
I don't understand if it's a me problem or not. It seems like whenever I say "this therapy isn't helping me" they respond "but it helped everyone else! We've never had a complaint before!". I guess what I'm trying to say is how can you tell if someone is genuinely confused or deliberately ignoring you? Should I be doing something different?
@@se-n-fly-er it's your therapists job to fit their approach to you. Not you fit to them. If you have to mask in front of them then that is going to burn you out. If you are able to get a copy, there is a book that was recommended to me last week when I got my autism diagnosis called 'The Autistic Survival Guide to Therapy - Steph Jones'. I'm planning on reading it soon. You aren't the only one that feels that way, I did too. Questions for me feel like demands to find answers, which takes me time to process so it just gives me demand avoidance. What that therapist was really telling you is 'I have only treated neuro typicals before and I don't have the experience to adapt this therapy to accomodate a different way of processing'. They probably didn't have the awareness of this, so please hear from me that I am deeply sorry that they hurt you that way. I have a new therapist now, he's healing a lot of the pain from the bad experience I had. I hope that you feel able to try again soon and find someone experienced in your particular neuro divergence. You deserve better!
Sometimes planned dissociation (as in : I will completely lose myself in this video, this game, this art, this stim, this music, etc., ) is way the autistic I love copes with every day unpredictable stressors and unpredictable responses from their own nervous system. It is a deliberate way of resetting their nervous system, much like rebooting a computer. I think there is a place for looking at planned dissociation as a healthy, normal coping tool.
That's an interesting way of looking at it! I am an autistic adult with (probably) OSDD and my system actually uses positive triggers like music, games, and smells to help us manage switches. I thought of this immediately when watching the CTAD video about action systems that mentions that dissociative parts are susceptible to conditioning - obviously this is talked about in the context of trauma-based triggers, but we've found that neutral or positive triggers can also bring out specific system members without them feeling scared or upset. I think this type of positive cue-based switching can be really useful for communicating with more distraught parts and helping them to express their needs.
I treat autistic children, and the use of sensory-based treatment will decrease their use of self-stimulation, aggression, and improve their ability to communicate and thrive. You can find occupational therapists that will work with adults using adult-focused treatments that can be done independently at home. There are downsides to dissociation that affect successful relationships and the ability to work. Sensory treatment can replace dissociation as a more mature and functional coping skill. Good luck to you!!
@@Cathy-xi8cb, we did a lot of O.T. when they were younger, although that was pre-ASD diagnosis. We have no aggression or self-injuring behaviors. Certainly the weighted blanket, differently textured foods, and "heavy work " are all helpful, but I see no need to make them stop flapping their hands or regulating with favorite music videos or video games. It's not that different than coming home from a tough day at work and losing yourself in a good book or movie.
I'm late but this was fascinating. As an autistic adult with complex trauma I just want to say thank you for having the conversation and doing the research. It is so invaluable to getting people the help they need ❤
min 26:45 "[when there's so much pressure especially from someone in authority to not act like who you are, it almost encourages derealization and depersonalization... people are made to not remain grounded in their bodies]" !!
Amazing discussion! These findings are very sobering. As an autistic with DID this is very interesting. Perhaps autism screenings can also be offered for people presenting with DID/OSDD and trauma should be considered as well. Thank you both so much!!
Thanks a lot! I am autistic and until now I thought that I had to get rid of the bad habit of slipping out of reality when overwhelmed before I could think of starting a therapy (did it once decades ago and the therapist insisted in me not reacting was an attempt of manipulation). Now I am starting to see the issue from a rather different perspective.
Wonderful, we are both truly pleased this may have helped.
Holy crap. Those numbers are terrifying, and the intensity of trauma and lack of support are even worse.
I've been wanting to watch this video for a while but it was a bit long for my dissociating brain to process. I've tried to get involved in research and surveys and at least for here in Australia there's not really anything available in a more local level, but hopefully we can participate in future stuff online.
~ Jamie
Another thing that can be an issue is the tools used for screening for trauma and dissociation. I've found that a lot of psychological evaluations are very much geared towards neurotypicals and consequently can be very confusing from an autistic perspective- simultaneously too specific and too vague; it's hard to tell if I experience the thing being described just in a different way or if I just don't experience the thing being described.
Thank you so much for this video. I have never felt more seen. I started crying when you talked about how autistic children are seen as bad kids who can be punished in different ways. I was mistreated/abused for years by my parents in the name of "learning" and I've only recently come to terms with the fact it wasn't my fault, because the years of victim blaming from everyone in my life told me otherwise. I most likely have DID, though my brain isn't really comfortably with self diagnosis. I took the DES-II and got a score well into the DID range... I have been speaking to many diagnosed people with DID (who all seem to think I have DID) and doing as much research as I can, since it will likely be years before I can attempt any kind of diagnosis. I only became aware of this around six months ago, where I lost a week of time and according to a friend (who apparently had witnessed several alters as well, and told me they thought I had DID, and I didn't believe them) did a lot of things out of character for myself and was preparing to commit suicide... but it all sort of makes sense now. I was never able to remember the abuse I faced, and when I did, it was blurry and in the third person. I would be asked to take accountability for actions I felt like were being forced through my body while I was watching. Everyday events are all blurry before the age of thirteen. There are times where I would blackout and write it off as something else. I've since uncovered weird evidence... poetry that I didn't write, text messages I cannot recall, vivid imagery of "imaginary friends" from my childhood. Also the giant inner world I have had for years and could never explain. Flashbacks and nightmares. It all sort of came together and made sense, but I still don't really believe it. Such a huge part of me just thinks I want to play the victim and exist on the end of a spectrum to impose a binary my autistic brain is comfortable with. And then I look at the evidence and it's scary. This video was so validating.
Thank you for the comment, and I hope you get the chance to work all this out.
Omg! I’m pretty sure I participated in this study via reddit, so cool to see the results. Thank you both so much for talking about this.
I'm a french adult, autistic and with a DID, thank you very much Katherine for your work. It's a precious one. I hope some similar work will appear in France one day. Autistic life could be a very hard one, but we deserve to live a good life.
I really agree about non speaking autists, we need more research focus on them and their traumas
Thankyou sooo much for covering this its so important!! - from a traumatised autistic person
I have so many thoughts about this video as someone who is autistic and a survivor of abuse (directly related to being autistic, I think)... I'm not sure where to even begin or how to put my thoughts into words. Had to cut the video short because it started getting sorta triggering towards the end, but thank you for trying to start a conversation around these topics and bringing them peoples' attention.
Um. I felt a shock when I read your comment.
Thank you so much for elaborating on the relationship between autism and trauma. As one of the tribe with a dissociative disorder, this information is invaluable. I hope your work together will help make clinicians and public health providers more sensitive to these issues, as the human cost is enormous!
Thank you, we are both really glad to have had this opportunity!
Dear Katherine and dr Mike, thank you so much for this video! You both do amazing and important work. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us. I feel so much validated! Your information helps me to start seeing all these different things I struggle with in one picture that makes sense.
You are very welcome, we are happy that the work is being shared and so well considered.
Than you Katherine!
Thank you! It has been significantly difficult to find information regarding autism and it's relationship with trauma. I have been diagnosed with CPTSD and am currently working towards being evaluated for ASD, as I feel the symptoms of CPTSD were present since memory begins for me. The autistic life experience is one fraught with enhanced sensory input issues and perpetual confusion in socially sensitive situations. I resonate deeply with this subject.
Thank you, too!
Thank you so much for this video!
There is a lot of things resonating with me right now, and I cannot stressed out how much those videos are helping me. Thank you so much!
I would like Katherine to explore the incidence and prevalence of sensory processing disorder with individuals diagnosed with autism. The sensory aversions and avoidance behaviors seen are treated effectively by highly skilled occupational therapists. Because of the suspected organicity of many people with autism, it isn't a cure. It is an effective and practical treatment that improves both interoception and body awareness. This decreases the incidence of depersonalization and derealization, without psychotherapy.
Thanks, Cathy. Katherine will be reading all the responses and is always planning the next stage of research interest!
This is fascinating. I have autism, CPTSD and dissociation disorders. This is such an eye opener to me personally and I'm hoping that my therapy (EMDR) will actually help me or not.
Thank you, Beth. I hope the EMDR works well for you.
I have DID and a therapist used EMDR with us. This was before I knew I had DID. At any rate it ended quite badly and I was later told by a therapist who specializes in DID tell me that should have been expected? I literally ended up visualizing an explosion at the point I should have seen what we were looking for. I’ve heard alters protect that information until they feel safe with you holding the knowledge. Just be careful!
Your therapist needs to be informed of the modifications that need to be made for EMDR with individuals with dissociative disorders. If your therapist is not aware of the dangers of EMDR with dissociation, take great caution.
I can appreciate the amount of work from conceptualizing to delivering a set of newly confirmed facts to enhance the standard of care provided to be more parallel with the actual symptoms secondary to maltreatment and the consequential outcomes. Shown statistical improvements subjectively and objectively are worth every hour of your work according to your peers, your public and your your ;target population will no doubt live a more balanced life as a result of you following established standards of research. There is so much difference in research based practices as quality control and quality improvements to therapy where healing treatment plans are participated in compared to a practice using "isolated bright ideas". Thank the clinic and the research centers. Keep up how you rock!!!
Thank you, doing the work is well worth it when seeing how positive people are about it!
Awesome.
Thank you very very much for discussing this topic!
Thank you, too, so pleased it is being appreciated!
27 minutes - yes. I've struggled with Derealization - and a lot lately - and you have described the way it works.
I am educating myself. Dissociating has been a big question for the way I felt during childhood. It connects with CPTSD and autism symptoms I experience.
Relistening. Thanks again
Good grief - 4 minutes in and you are helping a lot!
This video was very well long awaited. Thanks 🙏 . Especially with trauma being said. . Thank you so much about having this conversation. I’m suffering this trauma. I’m not alone. Ie Paris Texas. Thanks 🙏
This is a very good series but it left me with the question: Is ‘shutdown’ just another word for dissociation? And can it be caused just by sensory overwhelm? When I was assessed for autism I was asked about trauma but not dissociation, since I did not really experienced one traumatic even I can point to, I can only assume the dissociation stems from dealing with sensory overload / interpersonal interaction anxiety but I was not asked about it so did not mention it 😅
Shutdown is often another word for a dissociative episode, especially in the context of vagal theory.
This was extremely helpful. Thank you so much.
Yesterday, after watching a couple of your videos for the first time in a long time, I suddenly realized that I was demonstrating a behavior of trying to fill a missing "maternal" figure in my life, and I couldn't understand why bc my mom and I have always gotten along well and been close. But then I found out that when I was a toddler, I didn't really like hugs. And then suddenly it crashed down on me: that missing connection, that lack of healthy attachment, was because of misunderstood signals and communication failures. Its because I'm autistic.
I just didn't know how to explain. I couldn't communicate. And when I tried, I wasn't understood. It was so bad, I develop a genuine fear of not being eternally misunderstood. And eventually I decided that i must just be a monster because no one understood me; not even the professionals. holy fuck man.
"[deadname] is a joy to have in class but struggles to form friendships with peers." Yea, no kidding.
@@septicember Wow, that is a tough read from a teacher without wondering why this might be the case. I certainly hope you find some peace with this position and work it to your best life!
I’ve been so looking forward to this! Thank you both for all of your contributions!
You are very welcome!
A friend sent me this video and I'm just so happy to see that there is research going on about this kind of comorbidity... it does make me wonder, as someone who has been misdiagnosed (they immediately went to bpd, just recently I've discovered I'm actually autistic) and has "suffered" through treatments that just weren't designed for someone like me; is there any progress on finding a more effective treatment on trauma and dissociation in people with autism? I've done emdr and exposure therapy at specialised clinics, but it was just hit and missed bc the autism was completely overlooked, these treatments have actually only made my symptoms worse. I've been looking for alternatives, but there's still so little (accessible) information about this, a lot of healthcare providers here won't even "try with me" anymore. Autism isn't my problem, that's just the way my brain works, but because nobody really "noticed" this struggle before, a lot of hurt and trauma has been caused... I don't even know where to look for treatment anymore.
i appreciate the summary text during the conversation
So crazy i was analyzing a recent meltdown episode and was feeling how it has that ''dissociated'' feel to it. Thanks you, eye opening!
As someone who is an Aspie, we are definitely vulnerable to abuse and assault. We just don't really understand people's motivations and get ourselves as children into odd and dangerous predicaments. Sadly pedos and predators have a sense for this and they prey upon that trait within autistic spectrum. I was molested by my 5th grade teacher, and my best friend's older brother. I was initially diagnosed with OSDD and after more therapy we realized that was wrong. As a defensive mechanism to fit in, feel comfortable or protect myself, girls have a trait of masking. Acting. No I never really felt like I knew myself because I was always doing this performance but can masking be seen as creating parts or alternative consciousness to handle day-to-day life? I'm not sure. I think this is where DID/OSDD and Aspies who mask converge or cross paths at this intersection.
I'll also add I ended up leaving the Psychology program at my university and changed schools/majors because I don't feel America is doing right by children allowing hormone blockers in kids that present gender dysphoria. If a child could be on the spectrum, abused by a close relative, school teacher, older friend's sibling, and DID/OSDD develops in childhood. If a child is displaying trans gender traits can there be trauma hidden? It was a question that had professors and students telling me that I'm not only wrong but transphobic. When I study the DID/OSDD systems, I find there's a lot of trans individuals in the community due to majority of parts being a certain gender, which leads certain individuals to transition. A form of added protection, maybe? I don't know.
But children on the spectrum really don't understand something bad is happening. It's my teacher or it's my best friend's brother...they're being nice. This is what people do. We don't know how to make connections or discern this is bad at times, especially when we're young. Especially if we don't have friends. Or god forbid, a parent is the abuser or behind the sexual assault. If DID/OSDD isn't diagnosed until after teen years, because most personality disorders are. And gender dysphoria is a symptom of DID/OSDD along with 80% of people with the disorder displaying covert symptoms of the disorder, I felt trauma could continue and be missed when parents are allowed to give their kids hormone blockers. It's trans not trauma. A quick fix of hormone blockers will not help trauma but hide it even further. That's my biggest worry. This subject is also crucial I believe in getting gender dysphoria in kids right. When a child displays girly traits with mom but heads over to dad's house and displays more boyish traits, and even states Mom wants me to be a girl (as in the case in TX), I have to wonder if there is more there.
Hi. Thanks for your post. I just want to respond to your point in your third paragraph about DID/OSDD 'isn't diagnosed until after teen years, because most personality disorders are'. DID/OSDD are not personality disorders; they are dissociative disorders.
@@Anonymous-dh2lt Then I'd ask, how early are dissociative disorders diagnosed? Because my point was that as youngsters on the spectrum, it seems clinicians today are more apt to diagnose an individual with gender dysphoria or trans rather than really understanding spectrum disorders or even dissociation.
Tysm!! I really connected with so much of this. Great video, so necessary
Thank you, Kane!
I have autism and DID too and brain damage from suicide attempts. multiple systemic health probs my son does too
Thank u so much
You are welcome, it was also a lot of fun to do!
This is so important - could you add subtitles to his video? The automatic subtitles are not good enough to follow through since it catches every "um", "hm" and has troubles with not so clear speech.
We would love to be able to do this but just do not have the time. There are community subtitles if you would be so kind as to help with this. Please let us know if you can and submit them!
The comments are helping to find out that I'm not only one facing this mix of things. Video discussion is triggering me badly.
This explains so much about my son ❤️
very difficult to understand for those with auditory processing issues and the closed captions are almost invisible. does anyone know how to change this? or is it set that way?
There is some research suggesting that as autistic individuals tend to focus more on details than the big picture, they may find compartmentalising easier/more natural than NTs. I wonder if that contributes to the development of parts in autistic people who also have DID.
Interviewing Tony Attwood and Michelle Garnett might help spread this message ❤
I am wondering whether DID can look like autism. That's from my own experience: I got various diagnoses related to trauma/dissociation. Somehow I have “encapsulated“ a lot of my emotions and buried them deep within me. On the outside this kind of looks autistic. At the time I grew up, autism wasn't diagnosed as much as today, but when I compare myself with younger people that have an official diagnosis of autism, I see a lot of similarities.
Hi Mike, thinking about the improbability of being a singlet at a biological level and how being on autism would seem to make that even more unlikely. there are 86 billion neurons in your brain, the vast majority of those neurons are not connected to each other (you dont have each of the 86 billion neurons fully connected to all the other 86 billion neurons, think 86 billion factorial connections). There are countless partially decoupled clusters of neurons. What aspect of partially decoupled partially asynchronous clusters of neurons structurally implies a human brain would self evidently operate as a single unified consciousness? i have read that people on autism spectrum have higher neuron connectivity with short dendrites, and far low neuron connectivity with long dendrites (due to prenatal elevated testosterone levels) , suggesting a unified whole brain consciousness is even less suggested by that type of neural connectivity. maybe people on autism spectrum have brain structures that are already leaning towards naturally having plurality of consciousness??? add trauma, and reduced long distance neuron interconnectivity, and its easy to imagine further devoupling. have you read anything along this line of congecture?
I'm not sure what you mean by the "improbability of being a singlet at a biological level" though. If you mean by 'singlet' (and I am not a fan of that term at all), someone like me, then I am one person. Pretty much everyone I know considers themselves to be one person, so it can't be that improbable!
@@thectadclinic Hello :-). From a neurological topology, we have {tightly interconnected groups of neurons} that are loosely interconnected. Behaviorally, given there are a fixed number of sensors/actuators in a human body (eyes, arms, legs) there is a motivator for the person to create one neural system to control those sensors/actors. However, the partial inter connectivity of neurons in-of-its-self does not lean towards a singularity of consciousness. So my congecture is, the less long-distance dendrites connecting {tightly interconnected groups of neurons} located in different sections of the brain, the more probable that you could get distinct alters. If you look at functional MRI scans, different alters are in activating different locations of the brain when performing the same task.. The lower the long-distance dentrite connectivity between those locations, the less information exchange between those alters / non-overlapping brain regions. This could also explain different functional abilities of different alters (given people on autism have less long-distance dendrites, they re more likely to access capabilities of the brain that are closest to that alter’s location in the brain).
Is this the dr sharon who had give me a second opinion on how I was born with alters as asd & its rare and that there wasnt a solution to it and that i had to live with it?
As an autistic system, we're curious if some of this might contribute to why so many trans people are plural, especially nonbinary trans people. While the majority of trans people are allistic, there is a disproportate amount who are autistic, and I wonder if multiplicity may play a role in this, since being more than one inherently messes with your concepts of gender, even if you're one of the few single sex systems.
Until today I had no idea that DID was so common. Like 1%.
Kind of freaking out listening to video.
@@ffthack it's more than that probably, and OSDD-1 is even more common than DID. I think DID and OSDD have an estimated combined rate of like 5.6%? either way we're really not rare at all. uncommon at most (least? lmao)
@@ffthack why?
I don't really know how to thank you Dr odija on UA-cam for making me to live like my fellow mates and for curing me from diabetes.... thank you so much may God always strengthen you and your work..
Im definitely slightly autistic but I took a test online anyways. My results said very likely but ill leave a link to the test at bottom if others want to try.
I noticed on the website it says that to get tested for Autism in the UK it costs 2250£?? That's like 2800$. Seems odd. But that's not really my concern.
I want to vent.
Ok so..Im 35 yr old male. I have a level of understanding of the subjects of mental health and disorders that's only slightly beyond superficial so I know how mistaken or ambiguous what I think or say may be but let me try. I've not had many diagnosis' but I have tried therapy 3-4 times. Most of my life I've been far to out of touch with myself anyways. I doubt the local therapists could have recognized what was really going on with me because I really am that messed up. At least though, parts of me have started to recognize some realitys and human things again. This post isn't totally about me but I have to try to explain a few things so that I can get to the right context.
I remember 3-4 years ago, looking at a webpage that listed the known causes/trauma-types that lead to the types of disorders I was beginning to recognize through myself. Tuens out, I had been almost every thing they listed. I was separated from my parents and juggled around family and friends from 6months -2 yrs old because my older (5y) sister had to fight brain cancer 1000miles away. Thankfully they helped my family beat it but when my sister got back, she had changed (from what I understand). Something about all the attention that she had received and then maybe the the actual surgery removing a piece of her brain, affected her in a way. She basically hated me because I was a baby getting attention or something. She was really bad ro me and would like torture me as a toddler and continued to be very bad to me until I was old enough to fight back. Lol.. it's just funny. I also nearly died twice, had to save my Mom and sister from a bad rollover accident, been sexually abused, and went blind in one eye from in an ice fishing accident all before the age of 5. Oh ya.. and when they did the laser surgery on my eye... They actually messed it up in my lens came popping on my eyeballs so I had to get rushed back down state again for surgery again.
This sorta of pattern never stuck my whole life and I would go through even more extremely traumatizing experiences that seemed tailored to put an innocent, sensitive, confused kid through hell. There were good things in my life too tho which is probably why there's still some kind of human burried deep in my ultra dissociated psyche.
The reason I had to bring those things up is this ...
My sister did grow up and did did end up having 2 children. 1boy(15, now) and girl (12). She's not a sadistic psycho anymore but she is not like a normal adult/mother. Though he does have emotions and she just love the kids... she has a very limited capacity as a parent.
God ... I'm making this too long I really got to get to my point. So.. my nephew is autistic and my niece is getting worse everyday. My sister probably will never really understand what it's like to be a sincere parent. She mostly just does what society programs for parents. She knows all the rules and social obligation stuff but doesnt think or judge for herself. She's the kind of person who puts her cars blinkers on when turning into her own driveway in the middle of nowhere with no one around. She takes care of her kids on a practical level but doesnt teach rhem anything nor show them what I would consider as sincere affection or parental love. I'm sure she does love them but they've been raising those kids like vegetables. It also seems like she doesn't perceive that she is the parent and that they are the children.
I don't know I can't even finish explaining this I need help tho... Both for myself and for the kids.😟
www.clinical-partners.co.uk/for-adults/autism-and-aspergers/adult-autism-test/adult-autism-test-results/results
Definitely check the NHS route first, as all Trusts should be providing assessment and diagnosis for autism. Private assessment will vary enormously in costs, so ask GP about referral to local services. Hopefully you can work all this out!
Great experience doc, you are a God'sent dr odija on UA-cam, keep up the good work, I am completely free from HIV ...
im late to this but i would argue that most, if not all, autistic people are traumatized. this world is traumatizing for autistic people to live in.
Those are not good ratios of special needs people being abused.
Autism and trauma both amplify emotional deregulation to an extremely unbearable extent and the camouflage of dissociation mixed with how common Narcissistic abuse is makes imposter syndrome really intense for people who have both conditions. 🧩