Peter Thiel - Why Universities Have Failed | Eric Weinstein
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2020
- In this Portal podcast clip, Eric Weinstein and Peter Thiel talk about the failure of institutional education, and what to do about it.
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This episode of The Portal was initially released on the 17th of July, 2019.
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"I think the B.A. is not as valuable as it looks. I also think the Ph.D. is not as valuable as it looks."
"This is incredibly dangerous, but also therefore quite interesting. If you imagine that the baby boomers have in some sense, in order to keep the structure of the university going, loaded it up with administrators, have hiked the tuition much faster than even medical inflation, let alone general inflation. This becomes a crushing debt problem for people who are entering the system."
#PeterThiel #PeterThielInterview #EricWeinstein - Наука та технологія
Although sibling rivalry exists even between clips channels, I still absolutely love what you're putting out!
I’ve got a question for both of you: How does someone manage to keep up his/her focus on a subject when not being positioned in an institutional framework, which „forces“ you to keep working on the subject you’ll be tested in? Keep up the great work guys, I love The Portal and The Dark Horse Podcast :D
Plain and simply what needs to be done is that any student that acquires debt and gets their degree and cannot get a job in the field that they got a degree for they should be forgiven on their debt this would incentivize the actual important jobs that are needed it keep universities from just training millions of doctors when we only need however many thousand... It's simple supply and demand we can't have these people pumping out all this supply when there's no demand!
Automation is sweeping the nation! Now we have coronavirus to taking jobs!!! it's getting worse by the day it's time to have human-centered capitalism!
@Samoht Sirood Ideally those students would not be led to that point to begin with. Maybe one alternative for reconciliation would be for the college to guarantee a job, where if the person who has the degree and cannot get hired into the field, they would get to go back at no additional cost and be set up a new field.
This would also create the long term incentive for the university to make sure that students are on track to be hired to begin with. Colleges would not admit students into fields that they cannot prove themselves to have the aptitude for.
The burden has to be on the colleges, we cannot just forgive the debt as the students are not indebted to the colleges. The colleges already were paid in full. Perhaps one way to restructure is to have colleges finance out the debt themselves rather than a third party and the college take on the risk of not being paid back. If you wanted something similar to your proposal where the college would have to take responsibility for the success of the student.
@@AquarianSoulTimeTraveler the number of residencies limits the number of doctors. I think that colleges should be on the hook for producing useless degrees.
let’s just call it what it is.. Education Inflation! and who you know will get you the good job, not your education
This Old MTB self education will get you a job
"College teaches you how to work for someone rlse. Then you have to work to pay back the college"
-Patrice O'neal
@Anticapitalist X Bullshit. That's how COMMUNISM works. Just look at China, North Korea. Public schools are the 10th plank of communism. Central banks are the fifth plank of communism. The reason "real" communism hasn't been tried yet, is that it was a lie from the get go. Centralization is communism, and SEPARATION & competition are capitalism. Capitalism busts up monopolies. Communism FACILITATES them.
@@terrythompson7535 those're same things, but we call it capitalism in the west and communism in the east lol
You got a link to the video where he says that?
Look at that. College is nothing more than a pyramid scheme. Those who promote college should go to jail.
If you look up in a dictionary, synonym for employee is guess what? SLAVE
One possible solution might be: Global Atomic Skill Tree (Every discovered small skill is named, measured, and taught. Perhaps in large clusters, like a traditional degree. User modifiable structure.)
"This is amazing that this exists in a modern society". Eric, I burst out laughing when I heard you describe the relationship to the perpetuity of Student Debt.
In the upside down land of Australia, if you are declared bankrupt, not only do you not escape your student debts. Your debt in relation to your home loan carries on, your car loan and any other loan that you have. It isn't just that you hand the house and car back. If the resale doesn't cover the loan value, they can keep chasing you for ever for the difference. That is what exists in our modern society.
I'm surprised they didn't discuss the surge in low-cost online MS programs, like the OMSCS program at Georgia Tech which has grown exponentially year over year. It opened the gates to thousands of students worldwide and is a massive source of revenue to the school. Other schools, like UT Austin or UIUC, are already trying to pick up on the momentum of students that want to earn degrees while working full time.
Why don’t they have the same for undergraduate programs?
I have a JD... a BA was required. I used to entertain the idea of wouldn’t it be better if JDs could skip undergrad and start law school earlier. But as a kindergarten-JD student I can tell you I wouldn’t have been able to handle my 1l year at 18-19 like I did at 22-23. I genuinely think I wasn’t intellectually mature.
His book 0 to 1 is a must read. An amazing entrepreneur.
I like the CED idea. No one takes the "core curriculum" seriously. Students could circumvent that, take 2-3 instead of 4-5 years in school, take an equivalency test and be off into the work force or higher ed
It needs to be seriously regulated though. You technically could learn anything in your room by yourself, but certain subjects still take a few years. Imagine a scenario where you set out to teach yourself chemistry, but you wasted years learning from incomplete/incorrect information on the internet. Hell, you’d waste a ton of time pinpointing which resources you should use in the first place. So there would need to be either some government website with a list of these resources, or access to open course programs like MIT and Harvard already offer.
What you are saying its not good for universities as a business, so that wont happen
These talks really do make you see the flaws in things.
For instance: How did neo-fascist ghouls like Peter Thiel manage to control the US government? And how do we extricate ourselves from overwhelming corporate dominance?
@@lipby "neo-fascist ghoul." I'm gonna need some evidence on that, dawg. Except I know already that you're probably wrong. People who casually throw around that kind of rhetoric are usually just assholes who have no idea what kind of mud they're slinging.
Yeah, these talks allow us to see flaws in current system and force us to think critically about their possible solution, but I really wonder what does it take to make some real changes on ground. It seems that these talk only challenge us think critically but hard to convert it into actions.
I think the idea about making universities responsible for their promises about graduate salaries/jobs and for the unpaid loans is something that could be implemented with some polishing.
1. Sending everyone to college no matter how much it costs was a terrible idea.
2. A lot of people with certain types of degrees don't get jobs in related fields, and don't get salaries that make the degrees worth the investment. Perhaps loans shouldn't be guaranteed for some/most majors.
3. Perhaps loans shouldn't be guaranteed for any major, and lenders could give loans to really smart, hard-working kids who want to be and will likely be engineers, doctors, and lawyers.
3a. Depending on the risks lenders are willing to take, these kids might all have full scholarships (for the BA/BS portion) to state schools. Perhaps lenders will be willing to give those kids loans to get a pretty school name on their resume :) ?!
If we eliminate the guarantee or put some of the risk on the universities, then tuition prices will go down, student loans/debt will go down, a degree might mean something, some clerical job requirements will go down, majors that are not Thiel's nor my favorites will shrivel... :)
Robert Slack it’s past time to up your medication dosage Robert.
Yes, Yes and Yes, I have been saying that for a while. A lot of universities would go under because of that. Having to taking on their former students debt. That is a feature and the intention, not a bug.
I am 25 and can confirm much less motivation than my 18 y/o self
First you dream, then you realize. Then you think, f*ck it!
@Wild Dude 26 and I pretty much feel like I haven't done what I best would've at all. lmao
Shit, wait till you are 50.
Wait until you hit 40 and try and go back to school to finish some IT certs. I'll read 200 pages of a 1,000 page book and not remember a word of it a day later.
Becose its not worth it? I dont really think this world functions correctly
Excellent dialog gentleman. It’s a market segmentation problem. Chanel also sells $600 T-shirts. The optimal solution differs greatly from field to field but the brand is conferred on lesser quality for a reason.
Please have Peter again on your podcast 🙏🙏🙏
19:20 why I'm right of center politically in one sentence.
I'm so glad they hit this topic
I just don't understand the thinking behind any of the fees system so to term it. I paid 1200 gbp for my welding certificate, 14 gbp per hour.
One of my cousins took an I.T course, took 3 years to get the same level(ish) of certification an 60,000 gbp of debt an he's on 9gbp per hour.
I get that there's room for progression in each area, but 60,000 debt, and the current cost of housing, I just can't see it was worth it for the poor lad, an from what I've seen, there much more competition in his field than mine for the same pay.
From personal experience I used Harvard research (along with the experience of my profs and others) to put together a qRT-PCR experiment as my unofficial undergrad research project at PSU Berks. It showed me how technology can democratize research, I was not the only student to do something like this at what many would consider a podunk branch campus. That was my second go around since I hated being an undergrad in the mid 2000s at the Main Campus. Full of pompous profs that had grad students teaching class or saying before a history test that he was not staying any later because he had to get to a Mets game. I cannot recommend the STEM faculty at PSU Berks enough.
I love the tribble analogy.
Eric was on the right path when he was bringing up diversity of approaches however he did not go far enough. Really the issue is that we have a model that is in a purifying cycle where we have 1 system which is turning into 1 gatekeeper of all knowledge. If we had even 1 example of a science like career that trained outside of the university system that would be huge. The closest model I can think of is a 3 month coding bootcamp being more valuable than a Computer Science degree when it comes to any sort of basic entry level development job for BA/BS. After developers get a position if you could create opportunities and incentives for working people to branch and grow into different things it would be huge.
the most valuable things universities provide now are access to valuable social networks
But really, with such an interconnected world, coupled with personal courage, you can get networks for yourself... You don't need college
Agreed!
now that covid is here and all of these colleges have gone online instead of classrooms, demolished social networking! what’s do different between colleges?
Learning alot thank you
wait what was that about something they said about not needing a BA or BS to do graduate schools to do a phd or master's program
My dad got his MD and never got a BA. He started medical school after finishing his sophomore year of college. Granted...he graduated medical school in 1931.
A friend's son is getting a MD in the Ukraine for $4000 total.
@@jjuniper274 Outstanding. My family is from Ukraine...both sides. But I am 3rd generation American; I know almost nothing about the country where my ancestors came from
“The people in graduate school is like tribbles in Star Trek” Peter Thiel
The quality of my college education is on a level so low that it is not obtuse to call it theft as I have not been able to find a steady job in 14 yrs since graduating. Yet it is not theft when my wages are garnished if I refuse to repay my student loans.
Listening to this with a master's in aerospace engineering I will likely never be given the chance to use.
If you live in southern California, I can get you an interview
Why would I hire you when I can hire an H1B from India?
I'm curious to know the circumstance behind your belief. Aerospace engineering seems to be in high demand. I hope you're not listening to those who blame H1B1. That puts you into a victim mentality which can negatively influence your job interviews and job searches. And please note that I'm neither agreeing with nor denying any H1B1 claims. I'm saying regardless of veracity, having that mentality stuck in your head will negatively impact your search.
Use your skills to get paid in the stock market
@@WestOfEarth no nothing to do with H1B1 (I'm from the UK). In my experience the demand for engineers is completely fabricated with companies recieving far more applicants than they will ever need. I've made countless applications to engineering companys and instantly receive an automated response saying "due to the large volume of applications we cannot provide feedback and if you do not hear back within 14 days you have been unsuccessful". The shear number of hoops I still feel I need to jump just to be considered for the first round of shortlisting could easily take a decade or more.
Considering I struggled so much at school, and how unlikely it seemed id even get into uni (never mind graduating with high honours), it's been a real kick in the teeth that having graduated over 6 years, I've never came close to even getting an interview for an engineering role. position.
Because of the current situation that we’re in, I see a tsunami of colleges and universities closing.
I think online education is the future. Less expensive for everyone motivated enough to learn new skills to become job ready quickly. For people who want to do academic research then Universities are the place to be, and should always be free for anyone who has the prerequisite to become a researcher.
I use seeking arrangements. I never thought it would be brought up in this podcast 😂
Perhaps there should be a way for people that learn outside of a university (in their own time) a pathway to accreditation if the tests are hard enough (say requires a 90% score to pass), thereby allowing those that truly want to work in those fields cheaper access to accreditation than paying for a 4 year degree and going into massive debt.
My half-baked take on this is any "solution" to the college system has to first be an abstracted idea that mutually benefits both parties (student and institution) in a concrete way. It needs to be fueled in the way all other "stable" industries are - by creating a natural vacuum of supply and demand to uphold it. Those tenants of supply and demand need to form concrete solutions in the real-world in a far *shorter* period of time than say, debt and repayment. Problem is, this solution is about as idealistic as can be, barring any mention of how much we revere credentials (degree v.s. no degree) in our society - which is really just a money gateway for HR to sift through candidates as a risk management maneuver and nothing more.
17:35 very important point, especially for new graduates and prospective university-goers
There's no lack of work to be done in science, the problem is a lack of funding. Maybe if folks like Thiel and his friends weren't hoarding so much we could have PhD students who are paid well, do innovative research, and have good career prospects.
Man hell nah
It's supply-demand. If you want a higher salary for Phd students, recruit less. Also, why the hell someone want to do a Phd if it pay terribly.
As far as I know US PhD students get a lot of funding especially in STEM.
I got a partial scholarship but my dad made me lay out a plan for success before he'd pay the rest. He made me determine my degree and research what I could do with it. He made me research salary statistics and project where the industry was likely to be a decade out. This whole mess is mostly a parental issue from my pov.
Of course. I know someone with a Masters degree that couldn’t find Minnesota on a map. I’m not joking. Edit: the degree is from NIU in case you’re interested.
How about wealth distribution?
I agree that the University’s should take some accountability and pick up some of the costs.
0:55
"Frightened thet"
*goes crosseyed*
Stop allowing students that don't belong in college to borrow
How do we determine who can benefit from university?
Why would the college want to make less guaranteed money.
@@bsmith.1017 because their socialist and private income is illegal
@@marcusinfinity9386 real SAT. not teacher manipulated
@@jppalm3944 well that's not gonna work ..what if a kids wealthy parents just "donate" to the school's enrollment Center.
interesting video, but really disagree with him on the PhD and masters degree point. I think there can be a pretty large difference in the rigor and difficulty from undergraduate. A bachelors in econ is not very rigorous and you don't learn much of use. However, graduate economics is far more difficult and teaches you much much more. The quality of an economics major and an economics masters or phd is very wide imo.
School also shows a level of commitment and a certain behavior. That person with the b.a. or whatever probably had really good grades in school probably didn’t go out and get high every weekend. There probably goin to act a certain way after there hired. How do u know what your goin to get with someone who didn’t go through that process.
I'll pull back the curtain a bit - while you explore the symptoms here the real underlying problems are federal loans and the accreditation institutions. If your university wants to offer a degree in X, there is likely only 1 or 2 government recognized accreditation bodies for that field. Hence, almost all of the people coming out of any accredited (i.e. profitable) school learn that curriculum. They then go on to establish careers with the same knowledge base and later work at the same accreditation organizations that defined the curriculum they learned before. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy and as education expands and centralizes it gets worse. Intellectual diversity is not profitable and indeed punished by threatening to take away your federal gravy train by making a college unaccredited - it is an economic death sentence in a world where the majority of profit comes from government loans with no lending standards. Even PhDs are all cut from the same cloth - the seminal event of a thesis is essentially only a certified previously undescribed piece of the world according to the same predefined perspective of the accrediting organization - they cannot be novel by definition. Being right doesn't matter as long as it's accredited.
Some UK universities award Bachelor degree in comp. sci. without courses in math. I was astonished when learned about this.
As someone with a BSc in Computer Science and 30 years in industry, I don't see a problem with this. Programming requires more skills with language than mathematics. Only if you're getting into technical or financial computing should any concern about mathematics arise. Yes, we did some maths when dealing with formal methods and algorithm theory, but it was quite possible for you to complete a full three years of study without needing much of a mathematical background apart from things like managing understanding binary systems and basic mathematical functions, both of which can be learned very quickly.
@@mikehutton3937 As somebody with PhD in engineering and 30 years experience..... I have recently fought to find a single comp.sci. graduate in a major University, who can write and modify a makefile.....
The need of math in comp. Sci. is the same as discussing if a medical doctor needs to learn chemistry. It is not only the question of who needs it, most maybe don't need it straight away, but also who has mental ability and IQ to go over it. Would you trust a general practitioner, who has elected not to study chemistry? Good luck!
@@zzip0 Not sure I can agree with your correlation. A Doctor will be utilizing drugs as a standard part of his/her practice. The same is not necessarily true for a Computer Scientist. In many fields mathematics plays a peripheral role at most.
@@mikehutton3937 A quick question - what is the role of graph theory in software engineering and can you use it without grasping above high school level math?
Surely, you can write spaghetti code and make a living. But you should not claim you have University degree.
@@zzip0 Graph theory allows the Software Engineer to model an environment which needs a software solution, and thereby enable effective solution design. But not every problem/requirement needs the use of graphs to enact effective solutions. In terms of modelling solutions, there is some superficial use of graphs for analysis (e.g. UML), but these do not explicitly need a theoretical knowledge of graph theory to employ them effectively. Indeed, the practical usage of these will form an integral part of courses on formal analysis and design. Whether these are described as formal mathematical components of the degree will vary course by course. But Computer Science is a sufficiently broad subject for someone to be able to deal with these at a superficial level while still gaining sufficient expertise in other areas in order to qualify for a CS degree at a reasonable level.
A more pressing issue on Software Engineering is the same as it was back in the 1960s - effective communication. Too many people in computing understand logic but not language. Give me someone who can communicate effectively over someone with an intimate knowledge of graph theory any day. My own degree - such as it was 30+ years ago - was markedly theoretically slanted, whereas those pursued by my friends at more prestigious universities concentrated far more on broad spectra of programming languages, applications, and environments. Which was a better approach is, I believe, a complex question.
It may not surprise you to know that the number of programmers out there who actually have a CS degree is a tiny minority. The reason is that those of us who do are more expensive, and largely speaking our level of expertise is not regarded as an absolute requirement in commercial environments. There's also a depressing number of us who are poor communicators. I'm not saying this is a good thing. But it is the hard reality of the industry as a whole. It may also surprise you that the modern programming environment actually makes "spaghetti code" rather harder to write than you might believe. I have found that even those who DO have CS degrees frequently fail to understand what the term means, or the definitions and benefits of structured solutions.
The problem with the CED is in the writing of it.
Every university professor is simply infatuated with their own pet research microcosm based on their own personal value judgements and consequently their examinations / degree requirements are entirely arbitrary. -Entirely!
I would argue that no exam could ever be in any way objectively balanced nor comprehensively representative of the knowledge and skills necessary to perform in any profession.
Both my engineering degree and my law degree are worth shit. I am a registered patent attorney. I can barely make minimum wage doing that so I trade FOREX and stocks instead. No bullshit required, just IQ anticipating price movement.
The advanced "basic" knowledge, the foundation of an educated man or woman could be taught through a virtual university. So anyone who wants to can get the books, attend he lectures, write the tests and be "certified". Once you are certified you go on to specialize in medicine, engineering, law ,philosophy, the pure sciences and maths plus all the fields that are connected with creating a new computer driving world society. think rocket pilots etc.
. Laboratories and training sites (dental practice sites, chem labs, physics labs etc.) can be established at strategic locals! All of these education devices and practices should be free to people who have proven potential aptitudes for the work. People should be trained for multi-occupational skills, one day a plumber another day a bus driver, a farm equipment mechanic, forest fire fighter, combat engineer, computer installer and repairman, lab assistant, etc. etc. Crazy you say, nope, taint so!!, from a thorough basic knowledge base and specialized intensive courses, people can demonstrate their versatility. I was once labelled a certified teacher (dumber than a rock) and I wound up doing most of the manual skills to survive. I have zero math skill beyond basic arithmetic and plane geometry but I could write a constitution for the United States in short order. On the other hand with training, I could do dentistry and minor medicine, nursing, even foreign language instruction. However Peter Thiel and Eric are on the money, the academy is in dire need of a replacement------a few of the great schools should continue, but only accept the absolutely most capable youth-----kinda like what the French do in accepting students to Les ecoles superieures. And the Rentier Class, people who live oft collecting interest on money by owning rental properties, financial instruments, govt bonds etc. etc. and the new 'privateers" who want to profit from prisons', schools, housing----even the military----and who put local governments in a position where they have to pay for subsidies to poor people to property owners, such a sweet heart case of hi-way robbery is sans pareil. My shelf-life is just about up, so I won't be part of the brave new world, but in imagination I can build my own vision. If the planet escapes the fires of global heating and the fires of atomic war, I think the future could be a much much better place for all of the human family. I pray that it may be so.
We should've had a self-paced online method toward a degree a long time ago
My favourite thing about this video is the Klein bottle pitcher on the table.
Right along the window with the Möbius strip.
What is the answer to how the student loan can get paid back? Its called a “loan.”
What happens when you get a car loan for a car that turns out to be a lemon? No such options for a guy who ends up with a useless degree.
@@JRobbySh Lemon laws are a bad analogy as that is a special scenario where a law had to be passed to protect people from getting a car that wasn't worth anything (due to it being the collateral, i'm not sure if I'm explaining it well because I'm not near an expert). That is a false equivalency. If you pay for a service you can't get your money back because of the intended use of the knowledge. But it's worse than that. The money that is gone is the banks money, not the schools. So, if the degree is so useless the school should go bankrupt, and in the case of student loans the whole thing is looked at from an economical standpoint of statistics, i.e. if we excuse the student loans we'll free up people ability to get out of debt......I don't really have an answer for any of it and I don't see how wiping student loan debt is a solution when the teachers got paid, the school built new buildings etc.
He is absolutely right
I’ve recently decided that I’m not gonna go to school: it’s just not worth the money to me. If I want to do some mechanical engineering, I’m just gonna learn some semi-advanced math and read up on mech eng and use it for my own purposes.
Current education costs are stupid. Actually paying them is insane. Get a scholarship, have a sure plan or don't phucking go.
Believe you are better off with a degree than without one. Meaningful degrees that is.
Universities have failed that moment they started overemphasizing social sciences over MINT. We have a generations of young people with worthless degrees and mountains of debt. Best commercial against going to university is Dave Ramsey show, every second call is desperate person that has some "xyz-studies" diploma from prestigious university and thousands of $ of debt while working minimum paid job because it he/she cant find job for topic they went to University because noone needs "xyz-studies" experts.
Government should only support MINT and other degrees that are in high demand by economy and society. Everything else should not be supported by government grands and loans.
You raise an excellent point but I see a problem in this type of thinking because I see usefulness in studying things like history (this is coming from a guy who got a chemical engineering degree). Without government funding in the universities, our understanding of history will be lost. However, the ways universities currently teach history isn’t history - its a rewriting of history with an emphasis on racism, patriarchy, and other ideas that represent history ideologically, thus incompletely/one-sidedly. Things like history may need that government funding. Or maybe I’m off and it should just be funded through primary school, and thats another issue - primary school teaching (both content and execution) is very flawed. What do you think?
@@nickbosman5 i wasn't precise enough, history and arts should definitely have their place.
During my time on in the university, biggest department was department of political "sciences" and international development. This department had more students and staff than all other departments combined. I find it ludicrous, since there is no way that these people will find job with this diploma.
The worst of all people who got this degrees, they would feel so entitled, and constantly complain why they can't find job in the field, well there is only limited amount of jobs for such degrees.
Since this was in Europe, so education was free, all these worthless degrees were paid by taxpayers, and oversized department was drain on university budget. Literally government has footed the bill for people who after university took jobs that don't require these degrees, literally wasted money went down the drain
dragoaus Oh I see your point and I did misunderstand before. I agree and I’ve seen similar things in my experience.
Bring back Peter!
I have have to ask why college presidents and coaches are paid so much? Students never challenge such. Our local liberal arts president is making close to a million per year and they charge a FT student around 30k per year. Some of those degrees have poor job placement
Money is a concept that at a basic level plays a function of being a common denominator representing value. Money is suppose to be a store of value as is often claimed by the gold is money crowd. Money however is a concept, therefore abstract. The more complex commerce is, the less tangible and more abstract money becomes. There are certainly good reasons for gold's use in the function of being money, primarily as a governor for economic engines in preventing runaways, but money tangible or not is only worth what it can buy. However, money metamorphisizes, its properties change. A caterpillar becomes a butterfly, but we don't see the changing, we know the result of it. Caterpillars are not butterflies, nor is the opposite true, but unless we are told of their related origin or saw both the beginning and the end of the process, their being so different we wouldn't see the connection. How virtually everyone sees money, what it does, what it's for, it's use, is pretty much the same, and that's how we recognize it, it's function in regards to us is identical. When money metamorphs in to great wealth it's not a caterpillar anymore. It's not for paying rent, car payments, or gas and electric bills. This last greatest transfer of wealth, after the greatest wealth transfer before that, is propaganda. Systemic national indoctrination. The cost of Health Care, and college education is not the result of incompetence, mistake, or accident of unintended consequences. It's deliberate, planned. ( I apologize in advance to anyone, if by some off-chance there's an exception) Everybody knows that the first priority for every one of the political posers impersonating the person they imagine is suppose to be doing what they are disgracing, is getting re-elected. If the Democratic Party took Medicaid For All as part of their platform they would have the Executive Branch, and dominate Congress, and it's easy to imagine them controlling both for decades. Maybe they know something that we don't? The lesser-of-two-evils for decades public, and the kick-the-can-down-Hells Road politicians, until we get there. Who would have thought "why should we suffer today when we can suffer more tomorrow" would result in having the choice of a mentally handicapped President for a second term, crippled by treason and betrayal before he could start the first term. A puppet patsy played for the fool he is, by both sides, that liked the arraignment so well they doubled down, like their campaign contributors that donate to both sides. So we have for our second choice a mentally ill President Slow Joe, soon to be No Joe, though we probably won't know much when he goes or as he disappears. Shit starts getting real scary. The horrible dirty secret, is that America is a poor country. The wealth "transferred" doesn't exist. The wealth has already been spent. Health care costs liquidate the numbers in a ledger that represent the value of what were claims on the resources of tomorrows, that have already been spent on yesterdays, and what's left being spent on todays. The obscene cost for tuition, and the change in bankruptcy law is no accident, it's not coincidence. The wealth transfer is a metamorphosis. The abstract concept for the abomination that's being created is control. Control of what are the most violent and dangerous demographic in a collapsing empire , the same that comprise the infantry, and the bulk of the soldiers that do the dying. The absurd cost of tuition is in fact not absurd at all. The common narratives for why are bullshit. Lies and subterfuge. Whenever I hear about government policies that don't make sense, and the more I think about it the less sense it makes, when the outcomes are easily predictable, or when results repeatedly contradict policy goals and stated motives, then I know I'm being lied to. This applies to everyone. When shit don't make sense and they keep doing it, it does make sense, it's just that you can't make sense of it because you're being lied to and believe the lies along with everyone else because we are genetically predisposed to. Like King Herod had all Jewish male infants 2 and under murdered, the college age demographic is preemptively being psychologically castrated as a threat to the status quo in the troubles they know are coming. The debt is completely illegitimate, but people are almost helpless against the biologically inherent behavior to believe and follow what those in authority tell them. If the democrats wanted to control the federal government, it would be so easy after Trump, put your mind on it for a bit. The military industrial complex, guess what, the people that own the controlling shares of Boing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman control all kinds of control. There are not that many people that own most of everything worth owning in America. How rich these people are, how much money they're worth/have and always want more is not what drives people, what's relevant is how they compare to their neighbors or peers, and real wealth is about control, the power to control people and events. The people that control America are not stupid, they are so far ahead in the game by the time people can catch on to what they're up to, they're just as far behind. When people criticize the wars and blame the "Defense Industry" and "The Pentagon" it's always about the money, because they can't see past that.
The people that own the money, that make the money, print it, type numbers in to an accounting ledger and that's how much money there is, is not money as the 99.99% understand what money is. Never being wealthy nor being one of the 99.99%, "The Curse" seems a fitting name for illegitimate money/wealth . The Curse is a means of control, keep the game going, whatever it is. It might be piling up the greatest piles of rock carved in to blocks the world has ever know., had it has. The enormity of the effort, the resources and man hours, man years, man centuries, shit! man millenniums consumed to build the pyramids, that had no utility. They did nothing, their only utility was their being built, once completed, what utility did they have? Bury somebody, burry a few mummies? Something to stare at, and marvel the absurdity? Use it for shade? Think about it. Pyramids are ostensibly, a huge pile of rocks in the desert, that had to absorb a huge percentage of Egypts population to build, and every Joule of biologically stored energy they could utilize in an area??? somebody should figure that out. The pyramids were built in order for a very few to skim value off the top of the work and economics of scale the the organization of keeping so many people and animals occupied as agents of entropy dispersing energy. The police state, nothing being built, no public works projects, infrastructure repair or modification, anything on the calendar? Any holes to dig and fill up, or cash for not crops schemes? Corn in to ethanol, i.e., plant and burn cropsconsumptionexponential money creation curve that's pointing straight up, racing to reach heaven like the Tower Of Babel? We are near the end to the increase of Over-Shoot. Where has all this hyper political correctness, super moralism, or whatever the fuck WOKE or WOKEism is, come from? Been hearing the word insane/insanity much lately? Not applied to individuals so much as it is to behavior of groups? Group behavior with surprising, or inexplicable batshit crazy results? The view of the universe from the space between my ears is a cause and affect universe. (waxing metaphoric) There are programs running below the surface of our conscious minds. Among those subprograms there's a driver running, that's been around for hundreds of millions of years. Before fish there was Social Behavior. It has been evolving through countless species that have come and gone over a timespan that we can only conceive of as abstract symbols. There are aspects of our behavior that we are as blind to as fish knowing why they school, but not everyone. Hitler wrote about what he called "The Big Lie" and how it worked. He understood at a visceral level something he could only poorly put in to words. The "success" he achieved flying by the seat of his pants did not go unnoticed. I have come to suspect that the interest in mind control since MK ULTRA, and the very little that came to light of that dark world, didn't stop. Easy enough to imagine, but what bothers me is the nagging suspicion that what Hitler was only scratching the surface of, has been mined deep and not to our benefit. I know that self deception plays a part in our social programing and is especially applicable to status. When the conscious mind is unaware of the motive for what it's doing, deception is virtually undetectable to others that can't see it either. Our species has a place for cheaters or they wouldn't exsist to the extent they do. We are driven to achieve status and maintain it and cheat for it way beyond what people know. The subconscious doesn't think and reason, it reacts like an algorithm sending signals to our conscious mind that generates thoughts. There is driver banging a bell like crazy that we can't hear. That's what's driving all the hyper moral/ethical/uber-correctness to achieve-status behavior that's becoming so prevalent. The rains don't come, the herds didn't come, crops failed, hunters found no game, fishermen no fish, that for our species among countless disasters for hundreds of thousands of years, our tribes were forced to live and wait for death they knew might take them all, and when death came to feast on the tribe the higher the status, the more likely to survive. I suspect that cheaters (for the lack of a better understanding) act as agents of equilibrium to form a balance in the tribe and those that dominate it. A problem arrived with civilization that has grown in to a predicament. The rise of cheaters to be our leaders. Tribal leaders of our species success was dependent on the success as the tribe as a whole. The less stress, the healthier, the more efficient the tribe functioned to sustain itself and prevent and/or overcome attacks from hostile tribes the greater the probability the genetics of the leaders would extend in to future generations and improve our species survival. They were the tribes first line of defense. Believe, obey, and respond without question when the tribe is threatened. Decent wasn't tolerated as it threatened the functioning of the tribe as a unit, and those that did were eliminated from the gene pool. Now we have no tribe, our leaders are illegitimate as we are their chattel, they are not our first line of defense, but we are used for (supporting) their offense (military and misc. dept.(s) of dirty tricks and deeds) and the police/security/intelligence apparatus and media are their first line of defense and offence against us. What Americans perceive as reality and what is reality are so far apart they can't be reconciled. When conscious logical reasoning minds evolved to know the inevitability of mortality gods were born. The paradox between the drive to survive and inevitable death was resolved with magical thinking, and when it's encouraged by leaders, and now by everything and everyone.... But deep down there is a bell frantically ringing. On Wall Street they compete for the life boats on a sinking ship, youth in colleges lack the cash for status so attemt to achieve it with social capital, and on the streets...
I just had a thought, surprisingly. If we get rid of or limit the number of colleges that have an 85%+ acceptance rate it would drastically help the economy because it will give more value to having a BA/BS, Masters, PhD. On top of that, it'll decrease the corporate expectations of a mandatory minimum BS/BA to be considered for the position.
People don’t have an issue with a GED
Why not have the same for a college degree. I agree with EW specially if your gifted with a bad upbringing example: Good Will Hunting
The universities, small or large, made hay with these loans.
I like Bret, he doesnt pretend to be smarter than he is.
There's a simple solution to the university problem. They should, instead of charging upfront fees, garnish a percentage of wages over time. Therefore the universities will be forced to only allow people into profitable fields of study.
But a BA is required for med school....
Go to the Ukraine. I'm not so sure that is true.
Actually I checked. You need a BS or BA, but I do know that Ukraine med school is 4k.
But you have to speak several languages, obviously.
Here is a timeline how Student Loans have become a riskless asset for those who invest in those companies who lend student loans.
The following timeline illustrates the date of major changes in the treatment of student loans under the US Bankruptcy Code and related changes to other legislation:
The only investor in student loans anymore is the us government. 93% of student debt is owned by the government, and the remaining 7% is only outstanding private loans, no new ones. That's why you can't settle student loan debt through bankruptcy. It's like having unpaid income taxes.
@@alexw6311 Is your position that since the government owns an outstanding portion of student debt, that was the justification for the legislation? If so, then I'd challenge you to prove that. I've read through the legislation and comments when they were being passed. I do not see the validity in your position. But, I'm open to learn something new.
@@tentimes4 I didn't take a position. I just stated facts. There is no such thing anymore as private student loans, and I don't think the government is ready to write off student debt and take a 1.5 trillion dollar inflationary hit to the consumer markets.
Alex Wagner I would have to disagree with your statement that there are no more private student loans. Sallie Mae reported a 28% increase in revenue on their last 10k, beating analyst estimates.
Alex Wagner, there wouldn’t be an inflationary change in the consumer markets if the debt was written off. That money was already spent and the inflationary effect occurred in the past when the debt was issued.
Many of the issue Peter talks about stems from the shift of mandatory minimum requirements increasing for entry level positions. If the expectations of entry level jobs decreased with the expectation of tutorship, then the value of the college degree will increase again. When you need a BS to get a help desk position or a BA in business to rent vehicles at Enterprise, you know the system is broken because it devalues the meaning of a degree.
And the notion of college educated people are hungrier and more capable of learning is an outdated thought. They are only hungrier because they have $100k in student loans to pay off or else they will be homeless. They have no options other than to work and accept the brunt of the stick from corporate managers.
Most students are not smart enough to choose their degrees let alone to handle the complexity of a loan in which they are contracted "indentured servitude".
5'08: ”What is the alternative? How do we actually DO something about this [...]" Maybe one of the reason why Mr Thiel is different from most of us... DO...
The problem is not a university education it's the cost of that education that is the problem. Just like it's not the house that is the problem it's the cost of the house that is the problem.
I didn't know that Eric lived in the same building as Alex Becker
I'm starting my own university. I am the certificate accreditation. The first course releases soon, it's everything you need to know to do my job.
I could sure use that Thiel fellowship, I have so many ideas! In any case, I completely agree with Peter and Eric on what they think is wrong with Universities.
Part of a degree is the discipline involved with seeing it through. Taking an "equivalency" test is not the same. There are plenty of smart and talented people, that do not have the discipline to see a project through. Also, where is personal responsibility People choose to go to college, and they choose their majors, most of it is worthless.
“Discipline” aka obedience. I’ve seen countless people including myself who didn’t finish a degree yet succeeded in the workforce. Sensible adults are not going to discipline themselves for an overpriced scam with no respect for them or their future. That’s why universities prey on 18 year olds.
Man shutup
I am a Boomer that got a worthless degree because my parents were terrified that if I didn't have one I would be a ditch digger. In high school I had enrolled myself in diesel technology classes and I can tell you now I would have been better off financially with a much more stable work history than I currently have. I lived a whole life based on my parents fears for me.
OK, Peter is making some good points, but that is not enough. It is prominent figures like him that should be doing something about our deep problems, not just give academic speeches and interviews.
Apprenticeships.
Gen X calling Boomers names like' gray area'... subscribed
Love Peter
It's not a stockhold syndrome, it's a vested interest. People want to keep their privileges and exclude other groups.
The future looks bright....
Just like a couple of academics, you 99% missed the point. Education is about preparation for employment, be that as a college professor, or as an accountant. Colleges are teaching a lot of useless crap, and a fair bit of it actually makes students less employable. With the cost rising, and the value of the product falling to below zero, it only remains for their customers to realize that it is a scam and stop paying for it. OK, so hobby learning is a fine thing, but no one in their right mind should loan you money to do it. Hobby learning is anything that doesn't make you employable. That includes most "arts" and all of the various "studies". Teaching young people to be dysfunctional in both the working world and in the personal world is incredibly cruel.
Don’t blame baby boomers. We didn’t raise the cost of tuition to unaffordable levels. I, for one, discouraged my child from taking out a college loan. He worked while going to college and came out debt free. I, for one, also don’t want to pay for anyone else’s child’s college debt. They need to pay it off themselves and consider it a lesson learned.
Why dont let people with student debt go bankrupt? That would solve everything... The banks wouldnt loan so easily to students, people would think more about going to university, universities would have to provide something really valuable to attract students to pay that much for a college education... It seems if the loans are granted, young people optimistic will take the loans, follow what society tells them to do and not evaluate properly the future consequences like in other situations. If banks start to get hurt with bankruptcy then they will filter and assess the risk more accurately, this will align with estimations about future economy, professions outlook, universities value offers
I noticed this trend in 2014, USA the next Bangkok.
15:00 this theory should be called Thieleology.
You know, you know you know, you know and so on and so fourth. Unconscious language is not suitable for conscious thought.
the value of education is in scarcity. if we opened it up to anyone there would be 50,000 indian people with that same certificate.
"The dating prospects aren't there"
I like all sience stuff, micro, atoms ect. But im not going to school for it, specially not that long. Your mind wil get poisend. Im a problem solver. Not a walking data storage ;)
4:23 Translation: that was such a dumb comment I’m speechless
Only reason why I am middle class successful is because my schooling was covered. That's it.
0:01 They say that university is not valuable cuz they already made it. No one would have given them a chance if they had not made it.
So damn smart bro
I’m an intellectual so I got paid over 125k to get my masters/PhD over 5 years. Still didn’t get a job though. Lol
I would argue alot of this boils down to poor parenting. Why would you encourage your child to get a degree in a field where the work force in that field has no chance of making enough money to pay back a student loan.
cause parents are clueless
Because my mother is a high school educator who pipelines clueless kids into college and she needs to justify her existence, even if it means carelessly ruining her children’s futures.
The institutions of higher education have been declining for at least the last 30 years. I left the higher ed scene back then in frustration and disgust. I did well in the Corporate world anyway until I was offered an executive position only to have it rescinded because I didn’t posses the “sheepskin”. I didn’t have a club pass, and I wasn’t welcome. Being a stubborn jackass, I gave a passive aggressive ‘F/U’ and carried on with life. As the cliche goes: I coulda been a contender. Meanwhile, look at how screwed up this world has become, thanks in no small part to all those degreed fools that never should have been seated in a Captain’s chair.
Lets maybe stop lying to students. Stop leading them on. Don't encourage someone you know hasn't got a chance in hell at something if it is going to cost them years and thousands of dollars. Help get them to where they need to be.
How do you guys never hold those who engaged the loan accountable. It's only on everyone else to clean up the mess they made. Weird!
At the university we all think the same way and if you don't your chance to pass are low because the professors think the same way too. I'm not talking about political thinking but how to tackle a problem and solve it. Without anybody noticing it, there is a selection so that we all have the same frame of mind. In particular this push out the more creative ones. There are several solution to this, but...
Technology is moving faster then universities can keep up. If you want a high paying job in emergent fields you are almost 100% of the time better off learning from some rando online then going to State University #50. Learning from some 50 year old who has never worked in industry and paying that person thousands of dollars to learn about something they have no real world experience in is foolish. Sling $20 to a guy who makes courses as a side hustle and you will be miles ahead of the chumps paying these insane fees.