There were actually 5 rats in this fight. One of them was under the armour's helmet controlling it. The other giant rats had beef with that rat specifically. This is the Ratatouille sequel they don't want you to see.
Seems like this was well balanced in the end. I was actually quite worried at the number of rats initially, since Action Economy is King in 5e. Definitely feels like at the point that you need a group in battles like this to win, you don't really deserve to. But on the other hand, pack tactics is a valid monster feature which has no benefit in 1v1 duels. So I get the choice to make the exception here. Makes me wonder how the Rat V Kobold battle might have gone if both sides were actually groups and could use their pack tactics.
Pack tactics provides an insane combat modifier. It can easily take harmless creatures and turn them into absolute monsters due to the shear extra combat dominance that multiple instances of advantage provides. I went with 4 rats in the end because I thought that 4 instances of initial advantage was strong enough, while not disadvantaging the animated armor too much with its lack of action economy. It was essentially 8 chances to hit per round for the rats, vs 2 for the armor, but with the obvious difference in AC. Had there been 5 or 6 rats, I think the armor would have been absolutely dismantled. But this made for a fun fight that really could have gone either direction!
Wow that was awesome and a serious workout for the math on those Giant Rats so glad you ran four of them made things exciting! Animated Armor +4 to hit vs 12 AC 65% chance to hit (11x0.65)=7.15 Critical (7x0.05)=0.35 Total DPR=7.5 Four Rounds to kill Giant Rat +4 to hit vs 18 AC Advantage on attacks for first 3 rounds due to Pack Tactics 57% chance to hit with Advantage 35% chance to hit First Round (18x0.57)=10.26 Critical (10x0.097)=0.97 Total=11.23 Second Round (13.5x0.57)=7.69 Critical (7.5x0.097)=0.72 Total=8.41 Third Round (9x0.57)=5.13 Critical (5x0.097)=0.48 Total=5.61 Fourth Round (4.5x0.35)=1.57 Critical (2.5x0.05)=0.12 Total=1.69 Total Damage Done=26.92 Total DPR over 4 Rounds=6.73 Five Rounds to kill Which isn’t exactly correct due to DPR decreasing as Rats are killed By the way great job choosing 4 Rats if they had been 5 the total damage over 5 rounds would’ve been 40.95 Based on the Math Five Giant Rats would’ve been to much to handle due to having a extra round with 5 attacks coming at the Animated Armor with Advantage so good choice going with four Not that they even needed another Rat with those lucky critical hits 😂
Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the breakdown as always! One rat would have just been mulched, but the more their numbers increase, the more deadly they get! I did a test with 8 rats… it was over the armor turn 2 😂
when youre done with this tournament are you going to move whoever the winner is on against the winner of the next tournament? also itd be cool to see a class tournament. classes fighting it out. also spelljammer monsters lol XD Do it all! haha
That’s the plan. I’m thinking of giving the winner a minor upgrade to jump them into the next division. Could be a fun way seeing if a challenger can rise to the very top! A Spelljammer tournament would be pretty fun too! There’s so much scope with this series! 😄
It was always going to be an uphill battle for the rats, however many there were due to AC, damage and CR difference but they gave a good fight! They almost had it but not to be, not to be... Let's hope our boy Rusty can make the cut, my dream of him facing this armor in the finals...!
Quite possibly, but I don’t think they’d have the intelligence to think about performing the action. I try to factor in things like INT and WIS to the combats, and with a 2 INT score, there’s probably not much in the way of tactical thinking going on, haha. Rip and tear!
i can understand why you did it but increasing the number of opponents this late into the bracket has honestly ruined the whole experience for me.. it feels unfair to the other less powerful units that have already been eliminated, and how do you determine which foes get which boost? Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of weight classes!? so you aren't forced to improvise..? The goal was to see which is the best, which is now lost so whats the point ? if yall prioritize a close fight over a fair bracket then there is no point to doing a bracket? just do random match ups that would be close, if the point is a bracket then don't change the rules half way through. really disappointed ngl. I regret recommending this to all my dnd friends
Sorry you feel that way dude, and can appreciate the response. If you feel like sticking around, things will be far more structured going into the CR2 and beyond categories. This was always intended to be a trial run of the format, and including such varying levels was always bound to raise some issues. CR0 - 1 is far too broad, it’s be like pitting CR 2 monsters against CR 5 monsters at a certain point! This was a decision made to balance an encounter, and to give the rats some actual use of their full set, which would have otherwise gone completely unutilised. This was the first instance of CR being offset by more than 3 counts… CR 1/8 vs CR 1, so the general consensus on this one was to give the rat a bit of boost. Thanks for watching and participating for as long as you did though, hope you join back in for the CR 2 league when that begins! Edit: In hindsight, what I should have done is run the 1v1 as normal, taking the winner from that, and then running the fun, balanced encounter afterwards. We learn, and I do appreciate the feedback.
@@DungeonBoy-TTRPG I appreciate the reply. It's your channel, dont feel the need to justify your decision to anyone, but i do genuinely appreciate the explanation. I'll stick around. Hope you keep making content and improving. Sorry for the negative comment man, could've been more constructive and less obnoxious in my feedback. Wish you the absolute best.
Thank you for understanding, it means a lot. I have already learnt so much since starting the series, and moving forward the leagues will be far more structured around a single CR which will keep the issue far in the past. Really appreciate the second chance, won’t let you down!
What a crazy quarter final, but it seems like Animated Armor was too much of a top contender to fall to even Pack Tactics! I have a question, with such the wide pool you allowed yourself in terms of creatures' CR, however did you decide on just 16 to do for this bracket? And with still such a wide roster to potentially cover, do you ever think you'll roll back around to give more whelp weights their time in the spotlight? You have obvious picks like Goblins, Imps, Kobolds, but then have some more niche picks like the Dust Mephit and Abyssal Chicken. It keeps things interesting, so I'm curious what the decision process was.
It was a good one! So for this round, I went in pretty blind with the concept and did a combination of random selections and a few combats I thought would be interesting to run. This mixture of selection methods is why things have been a little unbalanced, especially because of how wide the power scale is between 0 and 1 CR! Going forward into CR 2, I’ll be asking you guys for some suggestions to feature in the arena, and then I’ll randomise the creatures that get in, and then another randomiser to pick who fights who. I’m looking forward to seeing how close things get with a more structured selection process! I also want to do some one offs in different arenas, with things like environment being factored in. Lots in the planning, so watch this space!
There were actually 5 rats in this fight. One of them was under the armour's helmet controlling it. The other giant rats had beef with that rat specifically. This is the Ratatouille sequel they don't want you to see.
A rat gundam if you will 😂
Or it could be like the mollusks from delicious in dungeon lol
Such a great animated armor concept 😂
Indeed lol @@DungeonBoy-TTRPG
Quarter finals let’s go!!
Best round yet! Great choice with the number of rats. It kept it tense all the way to the final moments.
All to fight for!
Seems like this was well balanced in the end.
I was actually quite worried at the number of rats initially, since Action Economy is King in 5e. Definitely feels like at the point that you need a group in battles like this to win, you don't really deserve to.
But on the other hand, pack tactics is a valid monster feature which has no benefit in 1v1 duels. So I get the choice to make the exception here.
Makes me wonder how the Rat V Kobold battle might have gone if both sides were actually groups and could use their pack tactics.
Pack tactics provides an insane combat modifier. It can easily take harmless creatures and turn them into absolute monsters due to the shear extra combat dominance that multiple instances of advantage provides.
I went with 4 rats in the end because I thought that 4 instances of initial advantage was strong enough, while not disadvantaging the animated armor too much with its lack of action economy.
It was essentially 8 chances to hit per round for the rats, vs 2 for the armor, but with the obvious difference in AC.
Had there been 5 or 6 rats, I think the armor would have been absolutely dismantled.
But this made for a fun fight that really could have gone either direction!
Lots of sticky rat goo on those sabatons
Animated broom will sort that out
Hell yeah lol was worried my buddy wasnt going to win
Still an unstoppable force!
Wow that was awesome and a serious workout for the math on those Giant Rats so glad you ran four of them made things exciting!
Animated Armor
+4 to hit vs 12 AC
65% chance to hit
(11x0.65)=7.15
Critical (7x0.05)=0.35
Total DPR=7.5
Four Rounds to kill
Giant Rat
+4 to hit vs 18 AC
Advantage on attacks for first 3 rounds due to Pack Tactics
57% chance to hit with Advantage
35% chance to hit
First Round (18x0.57)=10.26
Critical (10x0.097)=0.97
Total=11.23
Second Round (13.5x0.57)=7.69
Critical (7.5x0.097)=0.72
Total=8.41
Third Round (9x0.57)=5.13
Critical (5x0.097)=0.48
Total=5.61
Fourth Round (4.5x0.35)=1.57
Critical (2.5x0.05)=0.12
Total=1.69
Total Damage Done=26.92
Total DPR over 4 Rounds=6.73
Five Rounds to kill
Which isn’t exactly correct due to DPR decreasing as Rats are killed
By the way great job choosing 4 Rats if they had been 5 the total damage over 5 rounds would’ve been 40.95
Based on the Math Five Giant Rats would’ve been to much to handle due to having a extra round with 5 attacks coming at the Animated Armor with Advantage so good choice going with four
Not that they even needed another Rat with those lucky critical hits 😂
Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the breakdown as always!
One rat would have just been mulched, but the more their numbers increase, the more deadly they get!
I did a test with 8 rats… it was over the armor turn 2 😂
@@DungeonBoy-TTRPG
Yeah 8 would’ve been a absolute slaughter
What a nail-biter
One of the closest battles yet for sure
when youre done with this tournament are you going to move whoever the winner is on against the winner of the next tournament? also itd be cool to see a class tournament. classes fighting it out. also spelljammer monsters lol XD Do it all! haha
That’s the plan. I’m thinking of giving the winner a minor upgrade to jump them into the next division. Could be a fun way seeing if a challenger can rise to the very top!
A Spelljammer tournament would be pretty fun too! There’s so much scope with this series! 😄
@@DungeonBoy-TTRPG indeed!
GIANT rats, terrifying
Nothing worse
It was always going to be an uphill battle for the rats, however many there were due to AC, damage and CR difference but they gave a good fight! They almost had it but not to be, not to be... Let's hope our boy Rusty can make the cut, my dream of him facing this armor in the finals...!
The dream is still on!
Could the rats have mitigated the multi attack by backing off and forcing the armor to move?
Quite possibly, but I don’t think they’d have the intelligence to think about performing the action.
I try to factor in things like INT and WIS to the combats, and with a 2 INT score, there’s probably not much in the way of tactical thinking going on, haha.
Rip and tear!
i can understand why you did it but increasing the number of opponents this late into the bracket has honestly ruined the whole experience for me..
it feels unfair to the other less powerful units that have already been eliminated, and how do you determine which foes get which boost? Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of weight classes!? so you aren't forced to improvise..?
The goal was to see which is the best, which is now lost so whats the point ? if yall prioritize a close fight over a fair bracket then there is no point to doing a bracket? just do random match ups that would be close, if the point is a bracket then don't change the rules half way through. really disappointed ngl.
I regret recommending this to all my dnd friends
Sorry you feel that way dude, and can appreciate the response.
If you feel like sticking around, things will be far more structured going into the CR2 and beyond categories. This was always intended to be a trial run of the format, and including such varying levels was always bound to raise some issues.
CR0 - 1 is far too broad, it’s be like pitting CR 2 monsters against CR 5 monsters at a certain point!
This was a decision made to balance an encounter, and to give the rats some actual use of their full set, which would have otherwise gone completely unutilised.
This was the first instance of CR being offset by more than 3 counts… CR 1/8 vs CR 1, so the general consensus on this one was to give the rat a bit of boost.
Thanks for watching and participating for as long as you did though, hope you join back in for the CR 2 league when that begins!
Edit: In hindsight, what I should have done is run the 1v1 as normal, taking the winner from that, and then running the fun, balanced encounter afterwards.
We learn, and I do appreciate the feedback.
@@DungeonBoy-TTRPG I appreciate the reply. It's your channel, dont feel the need to justify your decision to anyone, but i do genuinely appreciate the explanation.
I'll stick around. Hope you keep making content and improving. Sorry for the negative comment man, could've been more constructive and less obnoxious in my feedback.
Wish you the absolute best.
Thank you for understanding, it means a lot.
I have already learnt so much since starting the series, and moving forward the leagues will be far more structured around a single CR which will keep the issue far in the past.
Really appreciate the second chance, won’t let you down!
What a crazy quarter final, but it seems like Animated Armor was too much of a top contender to fall to even Pack Tactics!
I have a question, with such the wide pool you allowed yourself in terms of creatures' CR, however did you decide on just 16 to do for this bracket? And with still such a wide roster to potentially cover, do you ever think you'll roll back around to give more whelp weights their time in the spotlight?
You have obvious picks like Goblins, Imps, Kobolds, but then have some more niche picks like the Dust Mephit and Abyssal Chicken. It keeps things interesting, so I'm curious what the decision process was.
It was a good one!
So for this round, I went in pretty blind with the concept and did a combination of random selections and a few combats I thought would be interesting to run.
This mixture of selection methods is why things have been a little unbalanced, especially because of how wide the power scale is between 0 and 1 CR!
Going forward into CR 2, I’ll be asking you guys for some suggestions to feature in the arena, and then I’ll randomise the creatures that get in, and then another randomiser to pick who fights who.
I’m looking forward to seeing how close things get with a more structured selection process!
I also want to do some one offs in different arenas, with things like environment being factored in.
Lots in the planning, so watch this space!
Next battle is imp against me boyo rust monster? I think me boyo is in serious trouble as the imp has valuable resistances...
It certainly does, we shall have to wait and see!