Colt Dragoon Revolver- 2nd Generation - 3rd model
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2023
- Checking my 3rd model Colt Dragoon against the Walker. Recorded speeds to see how much difference between the 7 1/2 inch Dragoon and the 9 inch Walker (same loads).
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I've lost count of how many times we've been lied to about when caps will be available again.
We’d be lucky if that were the only thing. O.R.
Ha,ha!! That kitchen staff can be pretty rough, I know they are down my way. Great channel by the way.
Beautiful gun ! I just bought a Uberti Walker. I would love to see some videos on shooting, loads, gunsmithing and how to stuff on the walker. I do a lot of target shooting like you do, so i wont be shooting maximum loads in my gun. I do like the idea of using corn meal as a filler to get the round balls up close to the end of the chambers. I really enjoy your videos on replacing internal parts, and how to stuff. You are my favorite black powder channel on yt. Please keep those videos coming. Happy shooting, and peace and best wishes to you sir !
Thanks a bunch. Actually, for a couple things. One of course is for your generous complements, the other is for motivation. You see, I shot Walkers (3) last summer and have been struggling with the motivation thing to produce presentable videos for the channel. You just helped a lot in that area. Congrats on the purchase. They’re the real deal. I had a devil of a time getting the barrel off the Uberti I got (new) and few years back. I’ll explain why in one of the coming videos. Thanks again for the comment. O.R.
Beautiful dragoon. I have been wanting a few 2nd gen colts to go with my originals. It would be cool to display them together to show what the originals would have looked like new. I love the Grease gun idea. Also you dont need to worry about setting a cap off with pressure alone. It has to be impact. I have a video i haven't released yet. but i put caps in my 40 ton press and i maxed the press out on them. I never had any cap go off. I did this text Multiple times with multiple different brands of caps. So they are impact Sensitive not pressure sensitive. Cheers and great video
Wow, excellent idea about the press. Maybe they act like a flintlock. Be really hard to get the spark by slowly pushing the flint against the frizzen. I pushed pretty hard, but those #11’s held their ground. I probably could have opened them with a diagonal cutter, but lacking said item, opted for the DIY plan. Thanks. O.R.
@oldranger3044 That's exactly how it works. There are parts in the primer powder that create heat and sparks when they move across each other quickly and with pressure. It's takes both to create ignition. so pressure alone and movement alone can't set them off. A way you could make these nipples work with 10s or 11s. Remove the nipples and lightly chuck them in a drill by the threads. This usually doesn't harm the threads. But you could also protect the threads with tape. With the drill running, use a file to size them to fit 10s or 11s. If you have access to a lathe, that would be best. but I have done both ways, and if you are careful and go slow, you can get a perfect fit. with some cold blue, no one would ever know they were modified.
@@snappers_antique_firearms 👍
Makes me wanna get a Walker
They will shoot high, but lots of fun. I’m working on completing several videos shooting 3 of them earlier this year. After working them, other guns feel sort of small. Keep your ears open Captain. O.R.
Great looking revolvers! Nice groups too!
Just bought it today, need to clean it and tomorrow I will try it :)
Fun guns, and well made. My first experience years ago was less than desired, mostly I feel because of not using much, if any lube. Things are better now. Have fun recreating history. O.R.
Great Video! I wish I still had my 2nd generation colt dragoon.
I would have parted with this one because I had concluded that the 1-60 was too slow when I shot it last. Now I’m just thinking I wasn’t using lube then, and am happy 😃 For years I didn’t know where I had placed it, and therefore didn’t sell or trade it. Anyway, I’m still ahead of my brother that has lost his nickeled colt detective special. 😢. O.R.
You got some excellent groups on this test OR, my Dragoon shoots to the same point of impact with 30 grns, but I have never had problems with caps being tight, I am using some old Ely caps, this test shows how much difference lube makes! My Colt 2nd generation Walkers also take the Ely caps, but I am always doubtful about the amount of "jump" when using 30 Grns of powder, the 3/8" jump seems a long way to the cone, I find both the Dragoon and the Walker very accurate, certainly better that my 1873? And I put that down to projectile diameter. 35 degs (C) here today, so we still have some "summer" weather to enjoy! Many thanks for posting this valuable information. Chris B.
Thanks Chris. I was shooting mr 2nd gen Walker earlier this year and don’t remember having the cap issues, need to have a closer look into that. My shooting has pretty much ended and when the snow comes I should have time to do some videos on data I collected in June. I shot 3 walkers with different twists and have over 100 speeds from the chronograph (it was nice to me). Sounds like you’re keeping warm, I’m hopping this winter here isn’t as brutal as last. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Hello OR, our winter has been more wet than cold, with all the misery that that brings, not much fun shooting in this weather, and I suppose you are snowed in, but we have just unloaded 20 Cu Mts of wood in case the weather turns bad. Happy Christmas! Chris B.
@@453421abcdefg12345 And a Merry Christmas to you also. In my 70+ years have never seem this mild of Winter. 50 F on Christmas Day, and rain of course. No snow, suppose shooting would have been possible. On the 25th would have been classic. After last year (worst I have seen), I decided to find indoor projects. I should be finishing up videos of shooting 3 walkers, but got distracted by a challenge to create muzzleloading southern mountain rifle hardware. In the early 90’s I purchased the hardware to build three different styles from a gentleman (Myron Carlson), that was making hardware identical to the originals. The quality of his work and duplication is amazing. Right down to copper soldering like the originals. All iron of course. Everything handmade and forged, he did everything but lock and barrel. How he did most of it I suppose I’ll never know. Possibly I should do a video just to show and share and document his work. So, that’s what I’ve been up to. Takes me most of two days to make the trigger, and that’s after two weeks of studying, planning and experimenting with techniques and materials. A machinist background would help, but sometimes need to work with the few skills we have.
Hope you have a rather pleasant winter and a great new year. And have some wood leftover. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Well OR, there seems to be some kind of parallel universe thing going on here! I too am starting on my Issac Haines long rifle, I have had the hardware for many years but just never got around to starting it, our weather has been so wet and miserable that having got my 20 Mts of logs tucked away I dug out the bits, which was a challenge as we had moved to southern France in the meantime, a machinist background can be a hinderance as there is a tendency to be too precise when fitting bits, so an inletting for the lock takes many hours with a soot candle, but it is therapeutic. The really big problem is the research! Living over here thousands of miles away from the nearest example to study makes it very difficult to get it right, I find most of the illustration in books are so bad that no detail can be identified for certain, it is a real shame we do not live closer as comparing notes is a huge benefit, have you got all of the normal long rifle books? I find the most useful is "Recreating the American Longrifle by George Shumway". Without liaison we just keep re inventing the wheel! I hope you have had a relaxing Christmas holiday, keep warm. Chris B.
@@453421abcdefg12345 Recreating the American longrifle. Check. The art of building the Pennsylvania longrifle (Dixonmuzzleloading shop) Check. The Gunsmith of Grenville County (Alexander 402 pages very good). Check. The modern Kentucky Rifle 1962 R.H. McCrory. (Temporary missing). Half check. I never realized the advantage of getting “hands on” experience is, till I found an original half stock percussion at a gun shop. They wanted 700 which was reasonable but not in my budget. It was still there several months later for 300. It’s pretty sweet and I believe made in Michigan. Has a Goulcher Lock, half stock, heavy small cal barrel. I probably won’t be around long enough to build it a sister. Very fortunate for folks that want to create these replicas to have all (most) the available parts today. Issue: retirement isn’t keeping up with inflation.
Would be great to have a close friend to share thoughts, ideas, and inspiration with. The internet helps, but can’t quite replace a “shooting buddy “. Like I have curly maple stock blanks I cut with my mill in the 80’s waiting to be made into long guns. Keep warm. O.R.
Thanks for the video Sir! Thumbs up ~John
Chewed out by the staff in the kitchen
I spit my drink out, I understand all too well
Now you have me worried about a chain fire with these DIY caps ,that's 1 of the reasons I converted 3 of my BP revolvers to 45 colt
I just got a 45 Howell 1860 cylinder and am anxious to get it going The idea is mostly to avoid cleaning I assume, especially when time is short and cleaning often requires a dedicated area, like the kitchen sink. I have some short “cowboy “ brass and am concerned some about loading it because the short brass can build higher pressures. I might just go with my substitute BlackMZ and save on my Remington #10 caps. (Reason #2 for using the cylinder). I’m betting that the accuracy won’t be there, but may be happily surprised. Our.
I've found that the kooks screw top cans work very good for Diy caps ,a little bit thicker ,good video
Any ideas about how many cans should be gone through in order to get a good supply? 😎. Remember, I’m not twenty any more. O.R.
@oldranger3044 doesn't take many cans to make a few hundred, 4 cans maybe
@@oldranger3044 I'm only 74 lol
@@mikerussell6212 Still in your youth. Curious what you’re using to form them? The newer manufactured ones appear to come in #10 or #11. Have had some wondering about which size of the new ones to get. Suppose I should get them to find out. Mine is the old forester. O.R.
# 10 from 22 reloader ,if you try those 16 ounce screw top cans ,coors lite ,let me know how you like them
I also stocked up on a lot of black mz when it was cheap. Shooters world is now marketing the powder. It is Is still made by american pioneer products. It is one of my favorite propellents in my ruger old army revolvers.
Thanks for the info on BLMZ. Is it called BLACK, thats what I saw? And also thanks for informing me about shooters world, wasn’t aware of that site. O.R.
I'm not sure if Slixshots would fit a 2nd gen Colt but I usually fit them on all my C&B revolvers to make cap selection easy.
I checked their sight, and probably do. They list them for the Walkers and Dragoons with the 1/4 - 28 threads. I believe current price is $40+, and then there’s shipping. But, they have a quality product, and sometimes a man’s just has to push the buy it now. O.R.
I enjoy making the Prime-All DIY primers and have had great success with them with TC Hawkin. However, I cannot get them to work on my C&B guns. I've tried with Slix-shot nipples and the Pietta factory.
I'm tempted to try with stiffer aluminum from pie pans rather than soda cans. I feel like the hammer just flattens them and the flame front spreads out the sides.
Do they ignite? I couldn’t get them to go at first with the dragoon. The hammer wasn’t getting close enough, but turning nipples out half turn and all six worked. I must have had a dozen or more failures before I did that. I was starting to think something was wrong with the caps. You might want to check the end play (gap between cylinder and barrel). If the cylinder can move ahead much when the hammer falls, there might not be that solid smack needed, rather, the cylinder moving ahead absorbs the impact. All speculation of course, one thing that keeps things interesting. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yes mine when boom. However, I'd got only a few hang fires and most didn't ignite the main charge.
@@nonokodog622 Some folks claim they need more powder than the recommended amount. That could be a possible reason for misfiring. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I starting to think I put too much ! Thanks for you thoughts.
Midway has Goex and Cabelas has Remington #10 caps.
Thanks for the heads up on these. See my local Cabela’s (100 miles) has the #10’s. O.R.
Very interesting.
Pretty wide extreme spreads on your group velocities (100+ fps). Might account for the vertical group dispersions you were getting.? Never miss any of your great videos❤DJ
Thanks Doris. The extreme speed spread is one of the many things I don’t understand. I believe your correct thinking it can’t do accuracy any favors, especially at say 50 yards. Glad to hear that you enjoy the videos and planning to finish doing some on the Walkers. O.R.
Completely my pleasure. Velocity spred can from so many factors. Powder type, Charge, Compression, Ignition, Projectile etc etc
Might try repeating some of this with real BP and factory caps. I believe synthetics are always suspect.@@oldranger3044 ❤DJ
@@dorisjohnson8857 Thanks, but tracks already in the sand. Even shot hornady factory swaged round, and Goex. I built a loader with a pressure gauge to get equal pressure on the rounds in each chamber. Have indexed chambers and shot to see if they were different. At times can get a single digit deviation for six, but usually 20-30. Strange however, it often doesn’t affect the group size, and some shots that are off the speed mark fall right in the group. Anyway, thanks so much for your suggestion and helpful thought. O.R.
My pleasure as always A loyal follower of you work. DJ👍🙂@@oldranger3044
I got a third model about two years it's my favorite bp gun I put slix shot nipples on mine works well with Remington number 10s
👍👍O.R.
it's like for the Walker, you could have put .454 or even .457 round?
in these we can go up to 60 grains? (war charge)
there is ultimately very little recoil in these heavy weapons
I think that .457 might have worked in the 2nd gen Colt, but would had to shave (or compress) quite a bit of lead in the Uberti’s.
The full field load (especially with a conical) will give felt recoil, even with the 4+ pounds of iron. They are a “blast” to shoot. O.R.
What's the shelf life of these DIY caps ? Do they crumble apart in awhile?
Just fired one that was a couple years old. Have had comment from a fellow that has run a test on his and they also were ok after a couple years. I may have had a couple chain fires because I think I had some powder near the rim which flash from the firing cylinder ignited. I slowed down producing after that, developed some sort of flinch. Am planning to use those that were made then in rifles. I don’t observe any more crumbling than when originally made. Hope this helps. O.R.
what powder do you use for the caps?
black powder or flash?
the firepower of your dragoon is considerable
It’s not black powder. Flash powder (according to information on line) will not reliably ignite. I have been using the compounds sold by Sharpshooter 22LR Reloading Store. O.R.
I don't believe this exists in my country, it's a shortage or dissuasive prices
we have to do everything ourselves now@@oldranger3044
Yessir .. Applied IQ - but does "the kitchen staff" watch your videos?
Thanks for sharing.
Not that I know of. O.R.
I just fired 6 shots with diy caps out of the coors cans an the caps did not shatter ,stayed on nipples good
That is interesting. 👍for Coors. O.R.
Make sure they are screw top 16 ounce cans ,
We have all of the second generation colts purchased new in the 70s and 80s to include a stainless 1851 Navy.All are unfired and unturned cylinders.
Neat collection. I was able to do almost the same. Didn’t know they made a stainless 51, those all are keepers. Brother and I shot the 2nd gen colts at the NMLRA Nationals in the 80’s, and did reasonably well considering the guns we were up against. I was able to qualify in Masters class, probably got lucky. Thanks for your comment. O.R.
Coors screw top can
Have you measured the barrel of your dragon? The US Army Dragon was 7.5" but Colt did make 8" Dragons for civilians. Your reproduction might be a copy of a civilian model.
Yes, I just double checked. Barrel is 7 1/2, foam fits exactly, but box says 8 inch. O.R.
Get some new nipples I'd say... put those originals in a little bag or something to keep and install the replacements that allow use of standard caps... always enjoy your vids.
Thanks. I believe there are a couple ways to get the nipple issue solved, and that one I can do. Here’s the but, so now it will shoot, BUT, there’s that front sight issue. I’ve done my share of damage to more than one second generation colt, and figure I should now leave some original, especially since they aren’t being made. Plan to reserve my modifications to the Italian models that are still in production. O.R.
If u use soda pop cans ,you might as well use tin foil
I’ve also tried the annealed copper (two thickness) from the hobby store. Look nice like factory, but I remember having issues running them in the die. Will talk to my brother that likes his beer, a six-pack for Father’s Day. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 try the coors cans ,and I have found that less is best in the primeing compand is better, just try it